The Secret to Building Trust

Foreign.

Hi, everybody. Gay Hendricks here with another edition of the Big Leap podcast. We cover so many issues here, you're going to have to take more than one big, deep breath in order to keep up with all the stuff we're batting around in this episode. Mike.

All right, so this one is all about building trust. And we deconstruct building trust, both in our personal, intimate relationships, but also our business ones. And we really, really go deep here, really deconstructing a lot of deep thinking and also managing our traumas, managing our demons, and. And what is it that prevents us for asking for what we really want and what we think we deserve?

Well, this is another episode of the Big Leap Podcast. I'm Mike Koenigs. I'm here today with my good friend Gay Hendricks. Hi, Gay.

Hey, Mike. We've got some exciting stuff to talk about today. We're exploring an issue that every human being needs to know about, and that's the issue of trust.

It's how to get it, how to keep it. And we're gonna go at it from a couple different perspectives. One of them is, of course, through a relationship perspective. Another one is through the lens of marketing, because, Dan, I were talking about this before we started rolling today, and the hardest thing to get from anyone is their attention these days and a commitment of time, whether they're going to open up their ears or their eyes to you. And of course, time is that one asset that is never replenishable. But in order to get all that, once you get past the attention getting, you've got to earn trust. We really want to dive deep into what prevents someone from trusting. And I thought, who better to ask this than Gay Hendricks, because you've been dealing with relationship challenges, you're going to see the blockages and what prevents people from having it in the first place, but also how to reclaim it when you've lost it. So, Gay, I'd love to hear some stories and some examples. And let's go down both the relationship version, meaning intimate relationships, as well as business relationships and connections.

Yes. Well, first of all, when you're talking about trust, you're dealing with one of the biggest issues human beings have. And it's because trust is something that we establish developmentally in the first six months of life. So you have to look at what was going on in your first six months of life if you have any trust issues that come up. So sometimes things later disturb trust. But human beings all go through a developmental stage of being very vulnerable in the first six months of life. Before we can learn to crawl and move around on our own in the world. And the great psychiatrist Yale Margaret Mahler.

Once said that in the first six months of life you're establishing trust. It's a time of union. And the second six months of life is about exploration. And so if you don't have a very good time of it in the first six months, it's hard to go into that exploration stage as well as you could be with all your wits about you. And so she. Margaret Mahler's point is that throughout life we create the same situations over, like in our grown up relationships, oftentimes have trust issues because in the process of two people coming together and getting closer to each other, one or both people have done something that betrays the trust of the other person when that happens. Well, that's what Katie and I have been up to a lot. And over the past 40 years in our couples work with people, because when people come to see us, they often come to see us from someplace else, either another country or another state. And so they come in to work with us. And usually it's because something has happened. And I think there's no better example than a couple that, that I'm thinking of where he had recently had an affair and it had thrown off all of the trust stuff when his wife found out about it. But then in the course of working through some things, she revealed that she had had an affair at one point. And so that started off a whole.

Cycle of other things that had ramifications. And so the only way we've found to really heal when there's been a breakdown of trust is through the tool of absolute honesty and absolute open hearted honesty where both people say, here's what I'm mad about, here's what I was hurt about, here's what I'm scared about. When both people can come to that part of being able to exchange freely what's gone on with them during the period of time that they've lost the trust, then trust can be rekindled. Short of that is very hard to do because.

We all sense, I think when things aren't going well in relationships, you know, you can feel when the vibrations are off. And a lot of us unfortunately deal with that by tuning out those vibrations by pretending things are okay, or by digging into them in a way that alienates the other person. And so it's one of the big challenges of life is to get down into openly acknowledging, acknowledging who you are and what you are and what you're feeling in the most vulnerable way you possibly can. And if you think about it, that's what human beings need to do to reestablish trust. But if you think about larger society, things have happened in the big old world that caused us to have trust issues with our politicians, with our fellow humans. All of the things that have gone on with the pandemic and all of that has brought our trust issues up in our face one more time. You know what do we trust? Do we trust the cdc? Do we trust the government? Do we trust. You know, all of these things are a swirl in the world today. So again though, I think that our solution always has to be open hearted honesty with ourselves, what's going on in ourselves, and open hearted honesty with the people we care about by sharing that with other people.

Okay, so let's go down the path because, you know, what you talked about here is open hearted honesty about who you are, what you are, what you're feeling in the most vulnerable way. And while you were describing that, I was thinking to myself about how.

Poems, music.

Songs, art, movies, you know, artwork in general, when you witness something that is so vulnerable and so honest, you can feel it and you think about how song, you know art.

Well, how art imitates life or life imitates art. I happen to believe that life imitates art more than art imitates life. I think we use it as a model often and we aspire to be art like or artistic. That's not always the case, obviously.

But if you were going to come back to modeling what works, what ended up happening with that couple you were working with and how did you get them? Were you able to restore trust, first of all? And what was the system or the processor? When you engage, when you and Katie are working with either a couple or an individual on building and rebuilding trust, what happens? And can we adapt these systems to our business and our marketing lives as well? I want to know how much is adaptable to, because again, I have my own mechanism for how I've built trust from a marketer's lens. And I've always done my very best to operate with the highest degree of integrity because I never want anyone to say, oh, you manipulative son of a guy, I saw what you did there. It'll be like, I want to be able to say that really came from a genuine place. I didn't go out to seek and manipulate or trick anyone to do anything. And I do know the rules of engagement in order to gain trust and move towards an offer, you know, so I, I can't say that I didn't have that in mind, but I'm always upfront about it. First. It's like I'm, I'm, you know, one of my favorite things I ever did when I was on stage years ago is, is I, I got, I walked up and I said, I'm going to give you the most valuable thing you'll, you can ever receive from me in this marketing conference. I'm going to teach you how to make a product. I'm going to teach you how to sell it. I'm going to make an offer and a whole bunch of you are going to jump up and run to the back of the room before I even tell you the price. Because the bonus alone far exceeds the value of the product and you know, and how many of you want to see that? So I asked people to raise their hands. You know, it was, it was a mechanical setup. I knew what I was doing and sure as heck. And it led to an enormous success. But I was really honest up front and I told people every step of the way. I broke it down step by step. Okay. You know, I'm like, right now, here's what I'm doing and you're probably feeling this. Raise your hand if you're experiencing this. So, you know, it was very, you know, there was a lot of suggestion embedded, but I, it wasn't intended to be manipulative. I'm just saying, I was just saying I know what you're feeling because it's designed that way.

So again, I way took this off the side of feeling based emotions. But I think that there's, we're mechanical beings, you know, as animals. There's certain things that make us trust and make us not trust. So.

Yes, and I think you've touched on the key there because what you did was you. In Japan, they say open your kimono. You know, you came in, into it with an open kimono instead of being open.

When I did it, that's how I opened up. I said, I'm going to open up the kimono all the way here.

Yeah, yeah. And that's really. If you watched couples sitting in our office here for a few days, you'd see the same process at work. You'd see us first priority getting to people so that they can talk about their emotions, where they know what they can talk about. I mean, they know that they can talk about their emotions and it'll be listened to. And so that takes a lot of work though, because a lot of people have been stuffing Things for a long time. And, you know, like with the couple I referred to, with the affairs, they, you know, by the end of their first day, they were down into. I was so hurt when happened and I was so scared when happened. But to get to there, they had to go through a level of, you know, you betrayed me, I hate you. There is no human problem that I've worked with yet that can't be handled in 10 minutes of sweaty conversation. The core of the problem can always be dealt with in 10 minutes or less, but then the ramifications of that then take an hour, two, three hours, a whole day. So by the end of their first day, they're communicating at a deeper level. A lot of times in relationships, people communicate at the anger level, but don't get down to the sadness level and the fear level. So they were communicating from all levels of themselves. The second step, though, once they get down to that point, is to try to figure out why they created that sort of event in the first place. Why in their marriage would this be coming up now and so what's happening there? And so getting each person the second step is to take full personal responsibility for creating the events as they are. And so that's a tricky move there too, because in society, you know, people love. You know, if you watch soap operas or movies or whatever, you're always going to see one person claiming the victim position and thinking the other person is the perpetrator, and then the other person claims to be the victim. And.

You see the same thing in politics. The Democrats claim to be the victim of the Republicans and vice versa. And so it's a victim triangle that goes on all the time.

And that seems victims attract each other too. You know, that's something that, as I'm listening to that, I'm like, ugh, I, I watch that. Yeah. Having the, the courage to say, I will not participate in that stink hole. You know, it's like, you know, the toilet, stinky, don't lick it.

Yeah, right. And so I love your metaphors, Mike. They come, I would say they come from the heart, but they don't.

They come.

Good old fashioned potty humor. But it's the fastest way to stop the. Stop the freight train.

Yeah. Really. And so I can almost predict, like the moment the light goes on in one part of the couple, one side of the couple. The light of. Oh, I see. Why I may have created that at this stage of my life. You know, that moment of awakening is really key. And it's contagious too, because as soon as one person does it, the other person is either going to dig even deeper into the victim position or open up and say, okay, I can see how I dial that up right now myself. So, you know, the, it turned out that the wife had the affair before the man did. She had her affair a couple of years before he ended up having his affair. But the key thing, that neither one of us, neither one of them had told anybody about it, even their best friends or anything. And so, so that open hearted honesty and that taking of personal responsibility in a joyful way, not seeing yourself as a victim, but as the creator of your life, those are the keys that enable the healing.

All right, I love that. I've been taking a bunch of notes. That's why I hesitated a little bit here. Because what I got out of this is first of all, you talk about the awakening and then when one person takes responsibility, then the open hearted honesty. And also when you choose not to be a victim, it comes down to again, the personal responsibility.

And what my brain immediately wanted to do, gay, is say, okay, what are the lessons here from a marketing lesson? What are the lessons about the animal brain, the human brain that we can take from this? Because some of it is the awakening, which is if I, first of all, I need to say I want to build trust. It has to be intentional. That's the first word. I also think that when you talked about.

One person taking responsibility, well, when it is the performer to build trust. And I'm going to just say the initiator. Okay. And again, I'm thinking through a media perspective, how would someone who's fresh in the media, a lot of people say, oh man, in order to accomplish my marketing or my business goals, I'm going to have to have a huge platform. I need to have millions of people paying attention to me. And.

You know what I would say is now you just need the right one. First of all, you got to get one. And then you got to see if that is a right fit market or an audience who's in this case a wallet opening buyer. And then you got to determine is, does that person represent, Are there a lot more like them? Are there a hundred, a thousand, ten thousand? Millions? And then you've really got to understand them. So again, it happens to be open hearted honesty, but it's also leadership. It's being the first one to open the kimono. And I think when people talk about authentic marketing or authentic communication, that is.

Very much the same way of being honest. And also, you know, I was trying to Use the concept of being a victim. That even comes down to giving the buyer or the market the opportunity to see where they may have something missing in their lives that could be fulfilled in this new relationship of trust. And you know, historically, if you look.

At.

God, I gotta think of the guy's name, the guy who wrote influence. I've actually met him a number of time.

Robert Cini Cialdini.

That's right, yes. Yep. He's a really interesting guy. But you know, you've got to.

In order to build influence and trust, you've got to help people see that there is an opportunity that you have and they've got to believe it. And that comes from having social proof. And I think that's another part of, in a relationship.

Intimate relationship, where you've got a. When you have a history with each other, when you have the social proof that this person has in fact seen their flaws admitted through their honesty, they were the first to show that they're not a victim, that they actually were responsible for the situation they were in. There's so much of. Again, I think we could get as granular as you ever wanted down this. But now that I've just opened up this rat's nest, what are your thoughts on that? And when you look at the comparative, when you operate like a marketer versus when you're operating as a therapist, what are your observations and thoughts?

Well, first of all, I think that good marketing and good therapy come out of the same place.

Because.

You know, the kind of marketing we do is very ethical marketing in the sense that we. The big marketing that's done through my institute is done by a third party company who bought the license to market our E courses. And so every month they sell X number of.

Dollars worth of E courses. So that's the main contact we have with marketing. And we attend the meetings where they're planning their strategies and all of that because we're keenly interested in having things be absolutely ethical, you know, where we don't make any claims or false promises or.

You know, I don't like to give people false hopes in any way. I want to just tell them what works, what we found works, and not make promises I can't keep. My goal and this is the best feedback we get is you guys under promise. People say, you know, you guys under promise and over deliver. That's great feedback. That's the way I want to be perceived as the guy who always over delivers. And so whatever you got to do to make that happen, I think that in a Relationship too.

Our relationships work if both people really want to over deliver. You know that the relationships that are suffering are where people are not bringing their best selves forward. They're stuck on some old pattern or they're trying to get even for some from some old thing, some wrong that's been done to them. So I think that we need to go down deep into ourselves and realize that the same thing that makes us relatable to as human beings are also the place we need to market from. So that there's no misalignment between what we've really consciously chosen as our purpose and what we're bringing forth into the world. That's the secret to it. To me.

I think the big word that I get there, that it's a short word that can be a million miles long, is relatable. To be in relationship and to be relatable.

You know, the, the first step, for example, is what do you have in common? Right? It's sort of like we graduated from the same place or we're both from the same town that makes you relatable.

And then the, you know, it's shared experiences, common backgrounds. But a great influencer, someone who's profoundly good at creating trust, knows how to build relationship and relatability from nothing. But another way could be.

I think on its most primitive level, it's, it's almost a form of entertainment hypnosis, which is if I can entertain you, that makes me relatable and desirable. And I'm curious in trust building, where desire and relatability and trust building, I just want to deconstruct that a little bit. Gay. You know where I'm going.

Because you love entertainment, you're a writer, you've written fiction. We both are lovers of movies, music. I know one of the things you love to do. You've committed to learning an instrument a year.

Think a little bit about trust building, entertainment. And again, part my marketing brain says, what are the shortcuts where you're still being completely real, you're honest.

As you say, ethical.

Well, I think people will give you their trust.

One time because they resonate with what you're saying or what you're saying resonates with the need of theirs. So. But there's a different type of trust. In order to maintain that trust over a period of time, you have to keep showing up with integrity over and over and over again. And that to me is the real way to build trust is to have a consistent message and keep being there with it in a way that's open to feedback, but just very clear all the time about who you are and what you're doing. It's returning to that all the time. You know, like the symphony orchestra, they tune to this one note. You know, the oboe player blows an A, I believe it is, and then everybody tunes to that note. It's a kind of a beautiful moment of listening to a symphony. And that's. I think what we need to do with our marketing is to make that pure tone and then let people attract themselves around that by making. Making it from a state of alignment, but also making the offer so clear that it lays out exactly what the benefits are. You know, to me, the most simple marketing. Like I was reading one time. I hope this is a true story. You can probably tell me, but I read that one of the greatest marketing slogans of all time was actually written by one of the beat poets. One of those guys like Lawrence Ferlinghetti or Allen Ginsberg or somebody like that.

Okay, yeah, I'll look it up here if you can give me something to.

I'll tell you in a minute. He advert. He moonlighted as a poet, but he moonlighted writing ad copy. And he wrote a piece of copy, four words long, that's still used today. Raid kills, bugs dead. And check out whether that was written by some poet or not. But it's a great piece of poetry in a way, because, you know, it's just a killer. Right on. Description of what the problem and what the solution is and how this is going to benefit you. You know, most people that buy Ray don't say, boy, I'm looking for a product that just makes roaches feel bad for a few hours.

Yeah, well, here, I looked it up for you. The slogan was written by Lou Welch, who was an American poet associated with the Beat Generation literary moment movement. And he, in fact, he worked for Foot cone and Belding was the agency. So it was first used in 1966 and trademarked in 1986. And check this out. This is great because I do remember the ads. Tex Avery was the producer of the commercials, who's a very famous animation director, who.

I. Those were great ads. They were really. I remember as a child watching them. And it turns out I was actually born in 66. So I remember them as long as I've been alive, seeing those things. And that's a. That's a great story. Really good. And. And there's one other thing that you said that really grabbed me. Gay. It was.

Tuning to the key of a. Which if you Think about who was the best marketer. Going back to some old nursery rhymes. Is the Pied Piper, right? It's getting the rats out of town. And what did he do? He played a song that resonated with all these little beasts. Now, I didn't know the cats and the dogs didn't leave. It was only the rats or the mice. I guess it was the mites, but.

And I can't remember where. If he led them to their deaths and commanded them to jump off of a side of a. Yeah, you know, or something like that, but it'd be like getting the lemmings to march after you. But what a great. What's a great metaphor? And I. I like the idea of using music and entertainment as that alignment vehicle, that resonant frequency, because I do think that if you, you know, go down the pathway of. Of resonating and energetics, you know, when you. When you vibe with people, something that I met with.

Someone some time ago and. And he basically just turned to me and he said, there are certain people that you will always connect with because you have a psychic bond with them. You don't have to speak, they'll just vibe with you. And, you know, when you think about the people you have the deepest relationships, it's the ones where you don't need to talk much at all. And you just feel like you're in the groove.

Curious what you think about that.

Yeah, I think that after a while.

People come into that state of resonance that's deeply trusting. And I think the only way you get there is by showing up reliably. I think that trust is built over time by showing up and being there and being present. And if you're not there, you're not present. Even if you're physically there and not present, then people pick up on that. I remember getting feedback on one of my early seminars. This was in my pre Katie days. I did a seminar one day and my mind was on something else and somebody actually came. I was having some relationship problem at the time and I was trying to do this seminar at the same time. And I remember a person came up afterwards and said, you know, you didn't really seem to be there today. And at first I felt a little defensive about that, but then I appreciated him for bringing that to my attention because.

He was right, you know, that somehow that didn't get through. Maybe other people didn't notice it, but he sure did and picked up on it. And so I think the kind of people we want to be in our sphere are People that are vibrationally attuned to us. And therefore we need to put a lot more attention into the vibrational quality of our speaking and how we're being with people. Because it's the human beings have been picking up on the vibrational elements of things for longer than we've been exchanging verbal language with each other. And you know, I read a lot of anthropology and the bushmen of South Africa have lived in nature so long that they read vibrations better than most of us would. And one story I was reading, they were telling the anthropologist that they can feel the movement of game nine miles away through the vibrations. They feel up through their heels, up into the calves of their legs, that they're attuned to those vibrations. So if human beings can attune to the movement of water buffalo nine miles away through their calves, imagine how we can learn to tune into each other if we had our minds on it and made a commitment to that. So that's the way I want to live. I want to live way down there at that sensitive place where I'm picking up on things that.

That are good to know about other people, what's vibrationally going on with them. I think the more we can do that, the more that organic trust gets built.

I love that. I've got a little story. I looked up something while you were telling that story, but I'm going to tell you what resonated with me as you described it. And I have a friend who's spent a lot of time in Africa with bushmen, hunting with them. So literally going out with nothing other than, you know, pair of sandals or, you know, whatever and living a hundred percent on the land with no water. You know, they'd have the bows and they go out and they track and they hunt. And he talks about the sensitivity and I think the word, one of my favorite words is nuance. There's so much nuance to the energetics and how we pick up up with them and the notion that our skin can be sensitive to a vibration. But I'm going to flip this around, Gay, and I'm going to tell you a little story which happened right now. I'm working with a company that's helping us with attracting very high level CEOs that we can work with and you know, this story. But for the sake of framing this for everyone here. I was in the business for years of selling, you know, having a digital marketing agency, then being in selling digital products and having a soft two software companies where we had monthly subscriptions. We sold training and then we started doing a lot of event related stuff. So anything that went from sold from $50 a month all the way up to 25,000. And right now when we work with people, they're usually in the $50,000 to $250,000 range. So what I did for this exercise we had to do is really understanding who our right fit target audience is and getting in their heads. So I'm going to read something to you because I deconstructed what is the fastest period of time that someone falls in trust with us. Okay. And I think that's the, the notion is how do you get someone to fall in trust with you? And I'm going to use that. That's something about that works for me. And so I'm going to give you. There were eight steps and one of them is a sentence, but I'm going to go through all of them. So here's, here's what I found. First of all, these people are generally in an affinity group that I'm in. So for example, Genius Network with Joe Polish, Abundance360 with Peter.

Diamandis, strategic coach. So that alone gets past a certain trust barrier. It's paid for its high value, it's an affinity group. And automatically there is a kinship in a commitment. Okay, so that's the first one. And the next one is I broke the trust barrier.

Because they may have known me because I either have a trusted association with the leader or have co created content. So if you think about it, you and I here, if someone hadn't heard of you before or they hadn't heard of me, but we meet together, there's co creation.

Now here's where we get more tactical. When I'm at a meeting, like we're doing a Zoom meeting. So imagine if gay. You and I were doing our.

Big leap year and we decided to do this with zoom and we met with people and we did breakout rooms. And each person would have a challenge and you'd have three or four other people with you to solve your challenge. That's typically what would happen. I'll get put into a breakout room. And I'm really good at giving someone a solution to the problem quickly. You know, you and I are good at diagnosing and treating a disease, whether it's whatever that may happen to be. So for them, they experience a transformation of their own in we're talking like three to five minutes, really quick, good advice.

And then a relationship with a case study. So I back it up with social proof. So it's a Case study with social proof. Meaning, wow, the problem you're having is just like someone else I've solved this for. Let me show you what you could do. Okay. And then you know what? I'll offer them a short discovery call where we go a little more in depth, which is, well, we didn't have a lot of time here, but I'd be happy to meet with you for 20 or 30 minutes and go through some other opportunities that might be, blah, blah, blah. And then one of the things that I do, and I call it money phone. And you really got into this earlier. It's about having the consistent connection. So I always get their contact info, and I send them a video saying, hey, hey, you and I just spent five minutes together. I know we solved this, but I did a little research on you, and I can think of five more things that can help.

I call it in creating anticipation. Right. And then this is something I learned from this consultant I was with. It didn't come from me. He said, what you want to do is give someone a feeling that if they don't choose you, they're going to lose more than they would by choosing you. Okay. And that certainly can relate to a personal relationship. And then here's the last bit. This is number eight, which is I have a phrase that I've had multiple people say to me, and when I repeat this, if I just say this, they're like, that's me. Okay? And here's what it is. I am an expert. I have a message to share. I've figured out how to overcome big life and business challenges, and I understand my message and my wisdom will help more people, and I want to connect with more people who think like I do. And I know my message and wisdom will increase the value of my business and give me more access to more people. When they hear that, they're like, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Let's talk. So what I told my team is if we can figure out how to package this so it has the least amount of me in it. In other words, just communicating this and giving someone the feeling of the transformation. That's how we scale. And so I want to go to you now because in your relationship and your marketer's mind, what were some of the things that you heard there that would be good takeaways for our audience?

Yes. Well, actually, as you were speaking, I had a picture pop into my mind of a person I'm going to be working with tomorrow for an hour who is a person who was on a hit television show, the star of a hit television show for many seasons, and then when the show kind of organically ended, you know, now what's she going to do with her 30s and what's she going to do with her 40s? You know, what's the big leap? And she took this gigantic leap that most people don't even get near early in her life. And now, you know, where do we go from here? And so.

One thing that I heard and what you were saying that I really appreciate, is that you're upping the ante all the time. You're requesting more from people and asking for. For them to bring more of themselves to the table. I think that's such an ingenious thing because so many people try to kind of sell other people on things out of fear or by kind of coming out of themselves. And what you're suggesting is something entirely different is to go down one more level at a time into being more authentic and letting that do the work for you.

Yeah, that's interesting. Well, I think part of that, Gay, you know, is we all read the book or we all write the book we need to read. We all create the product we need to absorb. And, you know, what I'm most interested in right now is the kind of work that you and I do together through this podcast and this mixture in. Like.

I'm going to use this opportunity literally to say to our listeners, imagine if we got to do this kind of work with you. That's what the big leap year is all about. And what it's like is imagine being able to look at you and deconstruct your deepest fears, your deepest wounds, and give you relief from that, but also pair it in where you feel fully integrated, both personally and professionally, where to continue this. What you were saying, Gay. I started writing three books over the past three years, and I lost interest in them because they felt too shallow, they didn't feel deep enough, and I knew I wasn't rising to the occasion. And one lesson I've really learned.

Now that I've done my own internal cleansing work and I'm pretty good at recognizing my own demons, I don't have any problem asking for anything any longer that I'm aware of, at least when I feel that, it's sort of like, oh, I see you, little demon. You know, it's like, but you don't control me. I just see you and I'll put you over here, and then I'm going to solve this other thing, because it's not coming from a place of emptiness and a void, but a place of service and of gratitude and elevation. I genuinely want to elevate the other and. And I catch myself there, basically. I know my greatest. One of my greatest fears is being taken advantage of, being manipulated, being tricked, and finding out after I've been suckered that I've been suckered. And it's not even the humiliation so much. It's like, yeah, you know, I mean, I learned how to influence and persuade because I was afraid initially because I had been suckered so many times.

So I don't know if that's useful or helpful for you, but I. I do want to literally use this as an opportunity and say, you know, go to the big leap podcast.com apply to be part of Big Leap Year with Gay and me.

And yeah, I'm really looking forward to that because I think most people have no idea of how magnificent they can become. And I get to live on a steady diet of seeing people open up to their magnificence all the time. And it's one of the most satisfying things in the world. But there's nothing better than feeling it happen in yourself. And that's why I want to invite people to spend time with us. Well, I see the old clock on the wall has ticked by and we need to kind of wind this fella up here. So. Mike, I love jamming with you. You're so much fun to jam with, and you have one of the greatest minds around. And I love kind of getting in there and tossing things back and forth with you and hearing about your genius and sharing mine with you.

Yeah, it's. This is one of my favorite things on the planet to do, period, End of story. So thank you for the gift. I will accept it and I want to return. Return it back to you. I oftentimes describe you as a best friend, brother, father, grandfather, mentor, all met rolled into one. Even though we're not like, quite grandfather age apart at all, I don't think of you as old. I think you as. As this wise elder who has no age essence to you. And that's something I appreciate. It's so rare to meet a deep soul, connected human being. And I'm so grateful for our relationship. I really am.

Thank you very much. I'm delighted to be able to share time with you and space with you. Well, gang, let's wrap things up and what do we need to do here to kind of summarize this? Is it even possible to summarize what we've been been talking about in this episode?

I know how to take the easy way out, which is it's in the description and the notes on our page@bigleappodcast.com we always put together a really detailed outbound message and make sure that you get on our mailing list. Because.

Every week we send out a link to a new episode, a summary of everything you get, and you're cheating yourself out of some. Really, we put a lot of effort into summarizing these, so definitely head over to bigleappodcast.com and then again, seriously, if this has resonated with you, this message, click on that Apply button. Learn more about the big leap experience with Gay and I as we roll this out. And if you have any questions you'd like to actually connect directly with us, why don't you text BL to 858-434-5316? I get all those messages, but when you text BL there, you'll get some additional tools and resources from us as well, and notifications when no episodes come out. And that's what I got. Gay.

All right, until next time, everybody. May your big leaps be benign, beneficial, and beautiful to behold.

A lot of bees there. Thanks for listening, Sam.