He built his own way in 🎥 Dumi Siwo

I feel like I go into things like a car crash sometimes. Honestly, I know that the thing I'm going to go into, I'm going to do my best. I'm going to give it my all. And where I'm left empty, it's like, okay, that, that, that hurt, but I'm going to put that in the back pocket. And if it hurts again, I'm an idiot. So I journal quite a lot. So I don't have to think about it being a mistake. It has to be a lesson. I know that sounds typical, but generally there's a difference between me saying that wasn't a mistake to me actually going, no, this is the lesson of the mistake. So when I write it down, like, we move forward. I can read about this a few years later. So let's, let's keep prepping for that future me that's always trying to learn.

This week's Millennial Master is Tumi Siwo, and his journey is nothing short of inspiring.

At 13, he moved from Zambia to the UK bringing with him a passion for storytelling that would shape his career. After facing early job market rejections, he carved out a space for himself in the entertainment world, capturing the energy of club nights and working with artists and DJs. As the founder of Firmative, Dumi has partnered with major record labels like Atlantic Records and collaborated with big names including Anne-Marie, Ed Sheeran, James Blunt, Ella Henderson, Rita Ora, and many more. In this episode, you'll learn from Dumi about turning passion into a career and how he built a thriving profession around his love for storytelling and video, the value of resilience and how to overcome challenges and stay focused on your dreams, and authentic connections and why building genuine relationships and compassionate leadership matter on the road to success.

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Www.millennialmasters.co.uk to get started. Dumy, welcome to Millennial Masters. Thank you, man.

Thank you for having me on this. Let's dive straight in.

You were born and raised in Zambia until 13, and then you came to the UK. That must have been quite a shock.

It was. It was a big shock. It was a culture shock. It was a weather shock. There was all sorts of shocks going on. And, uh, but it was also very interesting and quite exciting because I felt like I've just moved worlds, you know, like traveled worlds. I guess I did. So yeah, it was, it was, it was a shock, I'd say.

So you moved from a small village to what I understand was another relatively small village, but the context in which you were living was quite different, right?

Yeah, so I moved to Whittlesey when I came to the UK, and Whittlesey is just a very, very small village, and that's also part of Peterborough, which isn't exactly the biggest city, but that was the closest city to Whittlesey, you know, so, but I spent most of my, I guess, my first early years in the UK in Whittlesey.

So you turned to creativity pretty early on. You started with filming your mates, if I understand correctly. Yeah. Was that an escape from the small village life you were having?

No, so I was always incredibly intrigued in video and TV and moving images. When I was in Zambia, I was quite intrigued about how visuals were presented on a TV. So when I had the ability to, to work, the first thing I had in mind is to buy a camera so I can tell my own visuals, you tell my own stories. And so I had the, uh, the opportunity to buy a camera when I earned my first amount of money. That was the first thing I bought. And yeah, started to film my friends' journeys, documenting You know, like one of my friends had his first girlfriend who came down from Wales to Peterborough. I documented that and then started to film a lot of my friends, you know, music-related content. So yeah, just, I just fell in love with it. You know, it felt like, um, I wouldn't say escapism from Whittlesea. It felt like a passport, definitely passport to, to do more with, uh, with what I felt was something I wouldn't be able to do in Zambia. So I didn't waste any time.

So you weren't one of those people who had to kind of like figure out what they wanted to do. You, you knew your passion from an early age. Yes, yes, definitely, definitely.

I had a good idea. I wouldn't say it was like distinctive, as distinctive as it is now, but I had a good idea that I wanted to create, you know, essentially what is now Kontent, right?, but I wanted to create my own videos. I wasn't thinking as, as big as, you know, your Spielberg. I wasn't thinking about becoming a film director. I was just, it was very micro. It was like, I've got to shoot these videos because I think I'm going to enjoy them. And I actually enjoyed them. So quite lucky in that sense, really.

And then you went to uni to specialize into TV and video production, right? From— Yeah. From near Peterborough to just a bit more up north in Lincoln, right?

Yeah, that's it. So I did Peterborough first, went to college there, did my diploma there, and then that led me to go to Lincoln to study film, TV, and drama. So never too far away from the camera in that sense. But Lincoln gave me the ability to also do things in front of the camera, which gave me like a real good insight of what it's like to be filmed on camera, you know?

So how did you find the uni experience? Was it crucial to what you were going to do next, or did it feel like a natural progression?

I felt like it's quite crucial for me at that time because the only route from there was to work for the BBC. It felt like the, uh, that was the kind of like the journey of a creator back then. So that was 2009, I think. So I felt like to go to university, I had to do very well to then work to the BBC and then work in TV and find my way through that. That's what my thoughts were. So university helped in the understanding of film and the reasons why you film, the academics around filming and the understanding of it, you know, the mise-en-scène of why things are represented the way they are. I found that tremendously useful to get me ready for, you know, what would be my future in that sense.

But after uni and graduating, you said you faced some rejections when you were trying to break into the jobs market, right?

Yeah. So in 2012, It became extremely difficult because it was the dying time of terrestrial TV. I think that's how you say it. And everything was going digital. Jobs were being cut at the BBC. So my dream was being cut very, very, very thin to the point where I didn't really pick up the BBC job I needed. And so I was quite gutted because of that. And I wanted to really find a way to still express my creativity. And so I just, I went back to my roots. I started to film anything I was passionate about. And one of those things that I'm passionate about was generally one, people, but also the music, the music I loved, which is hip hop and R&B. And so I started to film club nights, you know, you know, to keep me active and fill the void of not being able to achieve my dream, you know.

So that's, that's how you got into Love Dough, right? In, in the UK.

Yeah, that's it. I felt like there was a hack there. I loved people and in my early stage of being a film creator, I also enjoyed dancing quite a lot. So I wanted to, a place I could actually dance to the music I loved. And because I love music so much, especially R&B and hip hop. It felt like it would be an easy win to get to know more people, film the content, and also dance. And then, yeah, just by luck, that ended up being a career, right? Like a real start to what would then pay me to build Firmative later on. So luck, really.

So how did you get your first break into that then with Love Dough? I'm guessing you just didn't show up and said, I want to dance and film this.

So I, I saw an application, like a poster that Matt, the founder of Lovedough, put up. And at the time I was a glass collector at a small bar, Wahoo, I think it was. Yeah, Wahoo. And I felt like it was just incredible to be able to see something like that in Lincoln because never in the wildest time would I see a flyer that has artists like, you know, at the time JME, Skepta has a history that had people, American artists that I absolutely loved at the time. And so I didn't hesitate, just felt, felt right. It felt like that poster was for me. And so I had an interview with Matt who took a liking to me immediately and felt like I, you know, I could do a little bit more than just filming. It felt like I could become a promoter in that sense. And I took his guidance and his trust and that, that, that led to actually ended up being his partner later on because it worked out because I was so passionate about that.

So that's the way you kind of like got into business a little bit as well and understanding how businesses work. And I know from TV and media studies and journalism myself, The business part is not really the grounding that you get in uni.

No, no, I feel like the XDxC experience is the proof, the proof of a business working and being able to give value to someone. And if you're lucky enough, you get paid to do that. So most of the time I was having the time of my life. I was doing exactly what I loved doing. I was able to create content to sell the club night where I would have my friends come to party with me and then listen to the music I love, dance with the DJs I enjoyed being around. And, uh, you know, it was quite fascinating because back then when I first started, the club night wasn't that big and I still enjoyed it as if it was, as you know, as if it was a gigantic thing. Because I think it was more, it was deeper to me than just money. I didn't see, understand the money so much then. I just understood the, the art of putting together a club night using video as my marketing tool. So I didn't even know what I was doing then, but I was just utilizing the tools that I, I felt kept, felt being natural to me to, to do. So that, and then it grew.

And tell me a bit about this growth and how it moved into Fermative and what you're doing today.

Yeah, so there are many ways to talk about this, but the biggest thing I'd say is we started, I started to become more business mindful because I was mentored very well by Matt, who I think is an incredible human being. But also an incredible businessman, and I wanted to be more like him. I wanted to be a little bit more business-minded. And so I started to be a little bit more deliberate about analyzing what's really working, and it was very clear that content was working. And we were first to market at the time, I felt, because I was editing a lot more videos than ever before, and it felt natural to do that. And so when we started to book bigger, higher value artists and DJs, they were very interested in how I promoted them. They had not seen anyone go as detailed as I did at advertising who they were as a DJ. And I feel like they felt heard, connected to, to the content. And that really, the result of that just ended up being a bigger club night. A more popular brand, and I felt like we really created a brand, you know, as people stopped calling the venue what it was and started to call it my brand, Love Doe, in that sense. And, um, the transition of that is a DJ called Jonesy decided to invest money to fly me over to different countries. So I flew over to Miami with him and I created a documentary about him going to Miami. I then did the same for another DJ, Andy P, who now is Central Cee's DJ. And then through that, it just dawned on me that I could do this for an artist. If I could do it for a DJ, I could do it for an artist. And that's when the thinking started to happen. How can I find an artist so I can create them so much content that it tells their story and builds their brand? Hopefully increases their fee, to be honest, you know, get paid more and and reach more boundaries. That's what I wanted. They were my friends, so I wanted the best for them. They're still my best friends, you know? So that's, that's, that's, that's what happened. That's how Affirmative really started in that sense.

So who was the first artist that you got to practice on or highlight?

The first artist I've worked with was an artist called Dan Kaplan. I drastically moved to London. Because I felt like it was very drastic. It's quite a complicated thing, but I wasn't happy with what I was doing at Lovedr anymore, despite it being tremendously successful and despite it earning me a lot more money than I thought I'd ever earn, and despite it being a really successful business. But I wasn't happy with that because I felt like I wasn't following what really I truly wanted to do, and I was quite concerned about that. So I stopped or paused it, went to London, and my mission was to find that artist that you speak of. And I was lucky enough to be introduced to an artist called Dan Kaplan. You know, I definitely believe in everything happens for a reason. London didn't work out for me, but like the connection I had with Dan did in that he just had a single called These Days, which had featured Rudimental. And Jess Glynne. Quite a big track in that sense. And he had written his first track that blew off. And Universal, Atlantic Records, and Warner Music had me film content for him. It was, it was very rare for videographers, for artists to have a videographer film for them and do photography for them and deliver that asset as quick as I did. So I knew I had all these bits of knowledge from Love Dough to edit content and deliver it very fast because I needed to sell tickets fast for the next event each week for 7 years. So then I knew that was a simple job for me. Film him, edit it, deliver it. They were amazed by that. And that really gave me that big foot in the door with the record label, Atlantic Records, that then were able to give me more opportunities down the line.

So would you say that was your first big break with Atlantic Records?

Yes, yes, because they had signed Dan Kaplan, and it was my first introduction as a freelance videographer to them, I'd say. Yeah, but you know, nothing— we didn't— our relationship now versus then is completely different, right? So it took a while before I built that up, but it was just a tester. I was like, oh, there's this guy called Dumi and he did something nice. But my, by the way, my work then was not great and I didn't do the best job I could because I was so distracted with my other business, but it was, it was good. You know, it was a great start.

So the first few years can be really hard. When you start a business and proving yourself. And you said you, at one point that in 3, 4 years in, you were almost close to quitting. What made you stick with it?

That's tough. As you said, like, you know, the early stages of business is very rough because it's rare that you really get success in your first year. It's still rare in your second and third. And so I just didn't believe that perhaps my passion was realistic enough. I didn't think that it was, everything I had learned was okay. I felt like I made the wrong move as well because I drastically left the events. And I think there was a bit of panic and worry there because I felt like I wanted to achieve this dream, but maybe it wasn't, it wasn't possible. Maybe it wasn't for me. Maybe I'd made mistakes. So I had a lot of self-doubt in that sense. The thing that kept me going is, I guess is what Affirmative stands for, is being positive and proactive and finding a way. And so I wanted to affirm my dreams to come true. And my parents had done so much to get me where I was. And the incidents that happened in Zambia. Back then also definitely turned me into a different person, to turn me into a person that doesn't give up, a person that's courageous, and someone that, uh, if I'm not going to do it for myself, maybe I do it for the future me that's helping other creatives. So I got my why back, you know, figured out that I wanted to really help record labels and artists get the best content they can, and in that process I wanted to pass on the ethos to creatives that were up and coming and give them the torch. And I felt like that was enough reason. Like, if I wasn't going to do it for myself, I'm going to definitely do it for the artists and the creatives that are up and coming. So I stuck on and thank God I did, you know, thank God I did.

You mentioned an unimaginable tragedy that you lived through when you were 7 years old, but that in a way shaped your resilience and influenced your creative journey as well and not wanting to give up. How can other people find strength in their previous experiences?

That's tough. I think everyone has a different way of finding that. What I would say is how I find it, and I guess on a daily basis when I have to be Resilience is a practically look at ways where I have been resilient and I try and find out what it is that I'm fighting in those moments. You know, whether that's small or as, as big as a breakup or making a mistake on something. How have I overcome that? What did I have to do? Where did I have to go? And resilience for me is your truth, isn't it? It's like Who am I? What are my flaws? And what am I vulnerable to? And I think just getting a really good understanding of that, and I'll continue to search for those things every day, gives me the power to understand that I don't have to be the— I don't have to be defined by my mistakes, or I don't have to be defined by things that weaken me. I can always get stronger. So I guess that resilience comes from understanding who I am and who I want to be. And really, really sticking to that truth and trusting, trusting myself, my instincts and my gut in that, in that really.

You started on your own, just like a lot of entrepreneurs do, but there was a moment when Fermative went from just you to adding new people to your crew. And that's one of the key and tricky points for a lot of entrepreneurs. On, on their journey. How did you take that step and risk at having your first member of staff and then growing from there on? What type of people were you looking for and how did you know they were the right ones to join your mission?

Yeah, I mean, that, that's a difficult one. Honestly, I think, I think what I wanted to do is create opportunities for other people based on the challenges I was facing within the business that I would teach someone else. So for example, I wasn't great at finance when I first started, you know, I wasn't great at bookkeeping, tracking my finances or understanding what a P&L is. And so when I really started to dive in and spend every day, like I do really on a daily basis to understand my finances. Started creating different documentaries, documenting how the business is growing, and I'm almost navigating through what's happening and what the results are. And by doing that, I started to understand my business and where I needed help and where I was more effective. Again, I guess it's back to threading out who you are. It's like, I want to get closer to the thing that makes the most amount of impact. And the only way I could do that is spend the most amount of time doing that. And the only way I could do that is by having help, you know, and also finding people who are passionate about the roles that I give them. So I think finding the right person, to be honest, like for example, Lauren being my, um, she was second hire, first, second hire. She's my second hire, but she's, you know, she stayed the longest in, in that role, but she, she came in and it was very obvious that she loved music and she was looking for an opportunity and she was hungry and determined, you know. And so I've had moments in my life where I've had to be hungry and determined, and I felt like that's someone I would want to invest my time but also want to give the opportunity so she can shine without me. So yeah, I guess you find the right people from understanding who you definitely need, but also you get to understand what you definitely need by understanding who you definitely are and what you want to be working on. So I've got a good idea of what I want to be working on and who can help me, you know, in that sense.

So what's your leadership and management style now with your team? Are you very hands-on? Do you give them a lot of independence? How does it work for you?

I think my management, I'll say my leadership or management style is very much based on being compassionate, compassionate about how I approach situations. I think having a really good consideration of who I'm dealing with, because everyone's completely different, is something I actually really enjoy because it takes a lot of patience, you know. Um, the patience is I want to understand who you are, what you're going through. And as time's going, you're changing, I'm changing, you know, how, how are we connecting as time changes us or as our experiences change us? And so finding my middle part of where I fit in that management is where I give direction as to where our goal is in that sense. And I'm getting better now at giving more responsibility to, to the team so I can get a better understanding of what they can do and where I can help. And I think in time I felt like that's been a lot more productive than being a micromanager. So, and I have micromanagement moments, especially when a client, you know, client comes first in that sense to continue the business. I have those moments if we're tight to a deadline. And those moments could be really brutally in truth of getting to, to the, to delivering, but majority of the time, I, it's very easy. I think if you spoke to my team, they would say I spend a lot more time getting to know them first and that, that matters first.

You've had some mentors along the way. What were the key things you picked up from them and you're applying in your business and your life right now?

I'll just say it how it is. I think they just, they, the mentor, the best mentorship I've had is they cared about me. They really felt like they were invested in, in me because it felt like if I improved, it connected to their why. I only know this because they've told me this. Later on, you know, they've felt invested in trying to see me do well for whatever reason. They can't necessarily tell me why. It's just like, and I think I get that feeling about my team. I can't necessarily tell you why I want them to do well, but I certainly want to see them doing really well. I want to see them as healthy as they can be, and I want them achieving their dreams.. And, uh, I want them to do that within Affirmative, but I also would like them to do that outside Affirmative. So my mentors focused a lot more on how I am outside of work. And that really helped because, you know, one of my mentors said years ago when I was running Love Dough, he said, it's really important for you to lay where you feel comfortable and safe. So make sure your bedroom is amazing. Don't worry about the cost for that because that's that's going to serve you well. You need to be able to go home and enjoy your home. And so another mentor told me, be, be, be good, be good with yourself before you can serve anyone at work. And so I focus a lot more on that and I feel like the team perform so much more better when they're mentally in the best position they can be possibly. So I'm there to assist using my experience to help them do that.

And do you feel now you're in a position where you can offer help to others? Have people come to you and asked you for advice?

Yeah, I've been, I feel like I'm really lucky because a lot of, a lot of my teammates and actually clients do reach out just to have a conversation. I'm, I'm, I feel like I'm a student of people and life generally, like I love the idea of exploring and meeting people. I honestly, it's, I'm not myself unless I'm getting closer to having a really deep conversation with someone, a conversation that matters. I'm not really myself if I'm not paying attention and listening to someone. So I feel like, yeah, it's got to that point cuz I'm really interested in listening, but also really considerate about how I, I, I respond, you know? And I'm truthful about my response. So over time I feel like, yeah, I do get more and more people asking for my advice, especially people that work with me.

And what's the first piece of advice you would give to them?

It depends on the scenario, right? But I always lead back to them making the final decision. I'd not tell anyone what to do, but I'd give them scenarios of what what it looks like from my perspective, you know, and, uh, and most of the time it's being confident in, in your own power, right? Like, you clearly have a power, and whatever is distracting you, let's get back to that. Let's figure out what that power is, and, uh, let's, let's get you to explore yourself in this situation. I don't know if that sounds too wishy-washy, but it's that. I I try and get them closer to understanding who they are again.

So how do you find your inner confidence and power to plow on through whatever comes and life throws at you?

I, uh, I've, I've, I, I definitely spend a lot of time thinking, just thinking. I spend quite a bit of time working on myself. I think, in my opinion, going, going to the gym and training essentially is definitely my— it's my meditation. It's, it's my peace. It gives me freedom to think, and I always have a better why. I always have a better power after that because I always want to come back to who I am and who I'm trying to be. And I think that power comes from actually knowing if I'm making a mistake on something and being first to own up. And I was talking to my, to Lauren yesterday, I was talking, there's, there's, there's one person that wants to always be right. And there's one person that's always trying not to be wrong. Like, you know, like I, I always, I want to work towards being the person I want to be. Yeah, so every day I'm working on that. Reading books and essentially training has been probably the biggest forte. Praying each morning and remembering what I want to do on the day and what I'm trying to achieve before I get out of bed is definitely like a way that's getting me— it's getting me closer to my why. Maybe a therapist will help. That's my next new thing. I'm very interested in getting a therapist now, so Be doing that soon.

We'll, we'll touch on these 3 points in a moment. We'll start with fitness because you're big into fitness. Anybody following you on any of the socials will definitely know and have seen that. And you said, you say it's the first thing, one of the main things that you do. Do you train every day?

I train, I don't train every day. I have usually, usually have 2 days off. In training in the week, but I do train about 8 to 12 times a week. And that, that's, that's, I guess that's more than enough. I could do a little bit less, but I, I do train to compete. So in, in CrossFit, that is. So I find that that probably gives me a good ratio of working on everything I need to work on, from, you know, lifting, Olympic lifting, to gymnastics and And any strength exercises and also keeping a really good cardio. So there's a lot that needs to be done and yeah, do that to, to, to, to essentially compete in that sense.

Then the second one, you said reading books. Can you think of any books that changed your life or influenced you to be the businessman and entrepreneur and creative? That you are today?

Yeah, I think Principles by Ray Dalio is, has been really important to me because it talks about being vulnerable and seeking truth, you know, and it describes success in a different way to how most people would, how I used to describe success. And, you know, it's like an equation of reality, big dreams, and What is it? It's like a relentlessness of getting those things. I, I think, I think that's huge cuz it's like, one, you should definitely have a big dream. And then secondly, you should face the reality of what that big dream is. You can't, you can't, I guess even in CrossFit, I can't be trying to be on the podium if I'm actually not doing this 6, 7, 8 days, 8, 8 sessions that I need to do to train.. And so I, I stick to that and I always remember what my reality looks like versus what my big dream is. And I, I'm relentless at getting there, you know, what, whatever it takes, no matter what the day looks like, uh, no matter how tired I am, I feel like, uh, that book really changed things. But then a lot of the principles in that are like in books like Think and Grow Rich. And, you know, they do pop up in, uh, some biography books that I've read, the They're the Bob, Bob Iger. Yeah. And he, his book is tremendously incredible because it goes through all the principles, but it shows his life and how he applied that. Yeah. And then I read books about human nature and the way we think and how we think. James Clear, they're all coming back now. James Clear about habits. Atomic Habits. Yeah, I'm always just trying to look for books that are going to help me explore further, you know.

I'll make sure I include all your recommendations in the show notes as well. Yeah, please. You mentioned the big dream. What's Dumi's big dream?

Big dream. I think, to be honest, it's I kind of talk about the, the mission statement, which is like, my biggest dream is to be happy in a place where I have committed to being a student of, of life, you know, and that, that would just mean that every day I'm working towards trying to be better for myself and my family. And so having a family that is healthy and To be honest, having enough money in the bank, if there's ever such a thing, but having enough security, let's just say. So I'm not able to worry about money as such and just being able to enjoy and pick what time I spend with my family. That, that would be the dream. Like being able to think of like, you know, my, I've got a 2-year-old and a 6-month-year-old. 20 years, being able to, to go and run a marathon with them and be able to have the time to do that without having to worry about the finances. That would be incredible to be able to do something with them, fly over to a different country and just have a good time. That's the big, that's really the big dream. And I guess in business, it's like my mission is to make Affirmative the one-stop shop for creative. And I don't just want to do that in music. I want to do that in sports and entertainment. And I want to do that by serving creatives, by having thousands of creatives being able to, you know, start or kickstart their career or developing in Firmative. And then for clients to be happy with, with that. So yeah, that's kind of like the big dream in business and personal really, in that sense, that's what I'm going for.

So you have two very young children. Yeah. How has having children changed your perspective on life and business?

It's changed it a lot. You know, I think what it's made me think is that time is incredibly valuable. Over the years, I've spent a lot of time worrying about too many things that really don't matter at all, like at all. I spent years worrying about silly things and the emotional drain from that is like, it's so useless. But the time I have with my kids, it goes so fast and I'm like, I just want to be able to extend that time. So they just remind me every day that time with them is incredibly valuable. And the time I spend is a choice. Why I spend it is definitely a choice. So I think I knew time was valuable, but only on a monetary perspective years ago. Now I'm like, time's just, it's just, it's just important. That's it. Like, it's full stop. So that's what they remind me of.

Every entrepreneur to get to the top of the game like yourself and continuing to grow has to make sacrifices. Mm-hmm. What's the biggest sacrifice you feel that you had to make to be where you are today?

Again, I think time. Sacrificed a lot of my time focused on this mission that I'm in, that I've committed to, and I've sacrificed a lot of that time, you know, for, for the bigger goal that I want with my family. And so that does affect how much time I actually have right now with my family and how much time I have with my friends. And I think time's the biggest sacrifice of that. And I just now try and use the time I do have with the people I care about and the business I'm in to be more effective with that time I have. Even training, you know, like go in there, don't mess around, 40 minutes out. You know, that's it. But yeah, time is probably the biggest sacrifice I've had, but then it's the thing I need.

Do you have any regrets or things that you would do differently from your journey to scaling up and building a business like Firmative?

No, it's like, it's quite odd. I can never have regrets, to be honest. I feel like I go into things like a car crash sometimes. I know that the questions, honestly, I know that the thing I'm going to go into, I'm going to do my best. I'm going to give it my all. And where I'm left empty, it's like, okay, that, that, that hurt, but I'm going to put that in the back pocket and it will, you know, if it hurts again, I'm an idiot. So I journal quite a lot. So, so I don't have to think about it being a mistake, it has to be a lesson. I know that sounds typical, but I generally, there's a difference between me saying that wasn't a mistake to me actually going, no, this is the lesson of the mistake. So when I write it down, like we move forward, I can read about this a few years later. So let's, let's keep prepping for that future me that's always trying to learn. And it also stops me from being so fearful because nothing worse than being able to say lose money on a project or whatever, because it gets you a little bit nervous because you're not getting further forward financially to where the business can go to develop and grow. But I look at that and go, thank God I experienced that now because I want to be here for so long. You know, I'm not here for the one-time ride. I want to be here for long enough. So yeah, I feel like I don't have regrets. I have a lot of lessons and I'm like so welcome to the challenges that come with it.

Let's move a bit into the future now. We've looked back a little bit. The club scene has changed so much from the early Love Dough and Affirmative days. We obviously had a pandemic and social media has changed a lot. Where do you see the future of clubbing, entertainment, and media going from where you stand as a creator?

I see a lot of things, right, arising and happening. But in my space, we're quite fortunate because everyone, even if they don't know it, is becoming a content creator in that sense. So I guess there you go. There you go. So it's quite fascinating having an eye on that because we've been looking at that for such a long time, right? So you can definitely then predict the enjoyment that comes from doing so. And so I feel like more and more people are going to invest in doing what they love doing and being able to document it with their mobile phone. So it's quite an exciting time because we're only just going to get more visual. People are going to get to know and fast-track who I am just by watching your podcast quite quickly. You know, I, I'll get to know you a bit more, Dee, compared to how I knew you before, because, you know, it'll be completely different because I can just sit there without having to talk to you to understand. So I think it— we're getting closer to getting to know each other, and privacy maybe isn't as completely as important as it used to be, or maybe If you want to keep private, you're going to have to work a bit harder than that. And it's only becoming more of a way to express yourself is becoming more important to do that on video, if that makes sense. That's what I'm seeing. More and more people are being comfortable with growing their brand and expressing their passion just by using their mobile phone.

So social media can be great for creators and it can help you reach people in different ways, but it can also be toxic. Would you allow your children to be on social media in a few years' time?

Yeah, I would allow kids to be on social media in a few years' time. I would And it can be really toxic, but I guess my, my children will need to be more accountable of what they're interacting with. Because in reality, you don't necessarily have to follow 3,000 people like I do. In reality, you don't necessarily have to search up anything you don't want to see. You could use social media as a really good platform to enhance what you're already on a journey dealing with. I guess the flawed sometimes is that social media exposes— I feel like it exposes what we don't want to see because we, we indulge into it and it finds you, right? So it's all good maybe calling it the enemy, but we might be the enemy. We might be creating that. So I think I'm just going to do a better job of making my kids a lot more accountable of what they're doing online because it will be, it will either serve them, you know, or it won't serve them, be toxic in that sense.

Social media has also liberated creators geographically. There are no more boundaries. You can film something in Peterborough and go viral in Korea. Yeah. And you also mentioned that you moved between London and Lincoln a few times now. But you always came back to Lincoln. How do you reflect on that in the digital context? Creators have to go somewhere to connect physically as well, or they can do it from the comfort or the space wherever they are in the world.

I think, you know, creators do, would do what's comfortable for them, but I think it's really important to have both. You know, use the access that you have and then also meet people in person. I think it's really important still. I believe it is. So doing both is an effective way of building a really good tight relationship with people. I believe anyway, that's, that's what serves me well. Like no good just having a call on video. It's convenient and it's helpful for like a day like, like this, but I'd rather meet someone for coffee and and, you know, hold their hand and, and, and, and say hello and shake, and shake it in that sense. So I think what creativity also allows is that you can— it gives you the ability to understand that you can grow business outside of, say, a bigger city and still have clients in a bigger city. But you've got to also be accountable of the cost. It costs way loads getting to London versus living in London, but then it costs to to live in, in London. And it costs not just financially, but also may cost mentally for some people who maybe like me prefer to choose the chaos. And that's why I love Lincoln. Like there's, I don't think there's chaos here whatsoever. I wake up early at 4:45 Tuesdays and I drive, you know, to, to the gym for So yeah, and I'm in the office at 7:15, all very close by. I obviously shower before I start work, just so you know. And then, and I have a really good productive day dealing with my clients. And then when they want me to come to London, they pay for me to come to London. I don't have a problem taking an hour and 15-minute train from Newark Northgate. No problem, I'd do that. But yeah, that being said. We are moving our offices to London and the reason for it is that balance, you know, like it's been nice, but if we want to take it to the next level, it's important that our clients can come and visit us without having to never visit us because some clients generally have asked for that. They're saying, can we come to your office and watch the edit? They're not coming to Lincoln, no. They're not coming on the train, are they? No, they, they, and people who live in London, I, from what they've told me, they feel like they live in a different country. The moment you, you see, come out from, uh, Finsbury Park and your train starts to hit Stevenage, they don't, they just, that's just a different country. They can't even relate to that, right? You and I are used to it, so we don't think it's a problem. But Londoners think it's a big problem to leave that circle of London. M25. M25, yeah. I'm going, we're moving to King's Cross, which is a benefit for us. And it's also easy for clients to get to us because I think it's important for the mission. Again, we don't have to do it, to be honest, if we want to stay here and just grow a little bit. I think if we want to go further. We have to be in the chaos with them. So.

That's an exciting new step and kind of like a little bit of an exclusive for Millennial Masters viewers when they get to see this. I want to quickly wrap up and ask you a quickfire question. When have you been starstruck by your clients? Because you work with some really big names and how do you, how do you manage to stay composed? Not be a fanboy when you see them for the first time?

Yeah, I've never been starstruck, but I get nervous around incredibly talented people. So it's not starstruck, it's just like, there's so much respect there that I could get it from anyone. But that's just my nature, is that I can't keep the eye contact too long because I'm like, Oh my God, look at you, you're so talented and so beautiful. So, but I never necessarily like get to that point with Star Trek. I'm just like, um, like appreciating you as a human being, but I do that with like generally friends who can be that way. It's something I'm working on, just like to stay in there a bit more, but I'm just like so happy to be in your presence, if that makes sense.

And is there any artist that you definitely vibed with and you would love to work again with?

Yeah. Yeah. I literally adore Anne-Marie. I think she's incredible. And, uh, I, I loved the time where I was shooting for her for quite a while. And I just, I, you know, you just, I was just happy. It's not just her, it's her environment, her management team, and everyone else, they're just incredible people. I said to myself, I'd work here for free because they're just great people to work with. So yeah, I think I felt the same with Ed's team. I didn't work with them too long, but they're welcoming. They're beautiful human beings. And you find that, you know, like some of the artists that you actually really love, in my opinion, are like, are even better in person because they've just They've got a tremendous team around them.

I think that's a good spot to wrap it up. Watch out for Affirmative offices in London, everybody. If you follow me on socials, I'm sure I'll give it a visit very soon once it's open. And thank you so much, Jumi, for sharing the wisdom today.

Thank you. Appreciate you. Thank you for having me on this. This was actually a really, really good conversation. And you're such a great listener. So thanks for getting the most out of me. I appreciate you. Cheers.