The power of self-belief and overcoming the anticlimax of success 🌟 | Francesca McClory (FutureCloud Accounting)

In order to make the team happy, I've sacrificed feeling a bit unhappy at times. Or you think of others a lot when you're a business owner, and then I have to bring it back and go, right, what's going to make you happy? And I bet any business owner could say that. They're not going to be happy, but would you be happy all the time?

This week's Millennial Master is Francesca McClory. Once a stay-at-home mum, who dared to dream beyond the familiar comforts of home. At 25, she took a leap of faith into the world of accountancy as she discovered her true passion—empowering businesses to thrive. Since starting FutureCloud Accounting, her journey is one of resilience, innovation, and relentless pursuit. In this episode, Francesca shares key lessons from expanding her business and navigating the complexities of growth, the importance of personal branding and its impact on her firm's success, and she debunks the financial pitfalls startups face and how to avoid them. This episode is brought to you by OffWork. Gym memberships, gift gift cards, free coffee, and pizza Fridays. Well, these staff perks just don't cut it anymore. That's why OffWork gives your team something they already love—travel! They can book their own flights, pick their own hotels, and plan the perfect getaway, all with the travel fund you set up for them. It's super easy. Just set the contributions, and OffWork handles the rest. Better time off means less burnout, more motivation, and happier employees. Give your team a perk they'll actually love. Check out OffWork today on offwork.com. Millennial Masters is proudly sponsored by Jolt, the UK's top web hosting service. Whether you're launching a WordPress site, or scaling up a custom app, every great project needs a reliable home. That's why Jolt has hosting plans starting at just £3.95 a month, with unbeatable deals on domain registrations too. Why Jolt? It's a no-brainer. There's no waiting around with support within 30 seconds on live chat. Your site stays live no matter what with over 99.99% network uptime, and you can also pay with Bitcoin or American Express, so you can rack up those points too. How good is that? Sign up today and enjoy your first 3 months free. Head to jolt.co.uk to get started.

Francesca, welcome to Millennial Masters. Thank you.

Thanks for having me. I'm really excited about this.

And I'm excited to speak to the accountancy expert.

The expert, an interesting word.

What's your take on it?

What makes you an expert? It's interesting because when I worked in practice, when I first started, I remember them saying, if you've done it once, you're an expert. That's good enough. Interesting. Yeah, it is. It's interesting, isn't it?

But before you, you became an accountant, you had your first child at 21 and you wrote that you imagined that you'll always be a stay-at-home mum. How did your vision change and decided to, to go into the world of work? Accountancy and then start your own business?

Going back, so I had my daughter at 20, well, fell pregnant at 20, had her at 21, and my son came when I was 24. And I was brought up where my mum worked a little bit for my dad and it was like the man that goes out to work. I don't see my dad now. It's, it's a very, it was a very weird upbringing. It wasn't your typical safe family environment. It was very much my dad went off working, hardly saw him. My mum was mostly at home, but did the odd job and helped dad out now and again and did little jobs. When I say little jobs, it was like part-time, a little shift work. I was very bright at school, but I fell pregnant young because my mum fell preg— not because my mum fell pregnant young, but my mum fell pregnant young and you almost kind of follow suit. And I, and I always got told you need to find a rich man from a family member who A rich man to look after you sort of thing. And I suppose you think that's the easy route, but what I, what I quickly found out or realized whilst having two small children, and I am, had two ex-partners, their dads, cuz I've got one with one dad, one with another, and I'll be really honest about this, they weren't very, very nice as in to be with and. Mm. I didn't want to rely on them, child maintenance. It felt like I had, I felt very lost. I had no career, but, but almost wanted a career, but it was a case of I didn't know how. So suppose I told myself it's easy to be a stay-at-home mum and just do a little job, just to work in a little job. And at the time I was working at Dorothy Perkins. I don't know if you've heard of Dorothy Perkins, a clothing shop.

It's closed now, but millennials will remember the brand. They will.

Or our millennials will. So I was working there part-time, but long story short, I was sick of my life. I was sick of relying on my tax credit, sick of relying on the men to pay the maintenance and asking for money. I just hated it. I really hated it. But this isn't a process that I knew would be done in a couple of years. It was a case of step by step. So my first step, and at the time I left Dyer Perkins and worked on reception at a dentist. And I remember loving the greeting and customer care, but I also remember asking a lot about the business and how the accounts worked. And my manager at the time actually turned around and said, why don't you do your accounting qualification? And I could put you through here. You can come with me in the office a bit more. So bearing in mind, I was 25 at this point, Luca was about 1. And I was like, yeah, all right then. Anyway, roll forward. When I was about 26, I enrolled at college to study my accounting qualification with AAT, not really knowing the ins and outs of it all. I loved going back to studying, absolutely loved my one day a week. Bearing in mind, I didn't get paid to go and do college. So one day a week, my kids went into an extra day at nursery at the time. I was a single parent. And I remember one of the exes, and I don't know how, I don't care if they do listen to this, to be honest, but they actually said Why are you going back to college studying? It's gonna take years to become an accountant. It's gonna be like, no one ever really, and he put me down, obviously that's what they do. And I, and I thought, I'm gonna do this. I'll still do it. I didn't care how long it took. So, and anything's better than what I'm doing now. So roll forward 3 years and I qualified and graduated and went to Lincoln, the cathedral with my top hat on, with my cloak on. I felt very embarrassed that day because I was 29, and I know that sounds daft, but at the time I felt really old because the traditional accounting world is you go in from college, uni, and do your Chartered and go in that way. Whereas I came in at the higher end and to get the job, because I was desperate to work for this company that was very popular in my area. I had to try on a few occasions. Mm-hmm. I remember saying to somebody who worked there that I knew from a younger age, please, please get my foot in the door. I know once I speak to the directors, I'll get the job because I was passionate and I really wanted it. So lo and behold, I got an interview. So obviously I sold what I'm, my care, my thought process. I really want it. And he said, you do realize that younger people will be on more than you.. And I was like, yeah. So I dropped a wage. I remember dropping from like at the time, £8 an hour, for example, to £6 an hour. I was only working part-time and I was still on tax credits. So to me it was like, who cares? I'm not bothered. It was sick. You know, I wanted it. I wanted to learn so badly. So that's basically what the reason why I went into accounting was. One, I love businesses. I love hearing about them. Two. I wanted to understand why people were scared of accountants because that's the stigma. Um, I knew customer care, you could really look after your clients. And three, accounting wasn't going to die a death because it's— everyone needs one. So I thought, well, everyone needs one. This ain't going to, you know, drop off the face of the earth so easily. And I was like, yeah, I really want to do this. I really want to work out about businesses. I also wanted to be a professional and that sounds really stupid, but coming from no money And not believing in myself as such and feeling like I put myself down a lot. And it's like me being a professional, wow, yes! What does that look like and feel like? I can't wait to be amongst the suited and booted. That's exactly how I thought at the time. So going in the corporate offices and almost learning how they speak, how they write emails, that was very, very interesting. And what I quickly realized is you don't have to talk like that and you don't have to do an email like that because actually Your clients don't need that. They don't need that whole jargon and that fluffed up email. They don't need to wait 2 weeks to respond, you know? So that's where I quickly started analyzing, plotting, planning of how I would do it, but not really believing that I could do it. Mm-hmm. And that's the step-by-step, the vision. The vision was, I plotted and planned at night. I did spend a lot of time studying, researching, Googling. Looking into tax, how can I help save tax? And it was in, it was a really interesting time for me, like 10 years prior to starting FutureCloud, I'd already started building me. And that's the catalyst. That's the confidence building and putting myself out there, but it did not go without the anxiety, the worry, the why am I doing this, the sacrifices of the kids' time, the comments, well, why are you All you do is work. All you do is go and train. All you do is go to the gym. But in order to be a better parent, I had to sacrifice time, the comments, stop drinking, stop going out, saved my money. Like I saved, I'm really good with money, really good with money. And that's what's great for an accountant. Can't see how a good accountant could be shit with money. Am I allowed to swear, by the way?

Of course. We're being real here.

Yeah, being real. So there was a lot of qualities I learned about myself. The accountant isn't there just to go, that's your tax bill. Oh, that's your tax bill. Clients need more than that.

So you spent about 6 years in a big accounting firm where you kind of like perfected your trade and understood how things were working before you took the jump into starting your own business. What was the turning point when you thought, okay, I can do it now? Let me say something.

It wasn't perfected. Nothing's perfect. So I didn't, if I was waiting for it to be a perfect time and know all the knowledge, I would still be at my old job. And that's a big factor. I wanted to, I remember saying to a now client, I really wanted to, I was probably 4 years in, I really want to do it, but as if I can do that after this. I'd already done 2 years in like accounting, but not in practice industry. But he was like, go for it, go for it, go for it. And I talked about it for about 2 years, as if, as if. So what was it that made me do it? A few things that went on in my life that gave me fire in my belly. So negative stuff. Okay. And that, and stuff that let me down and made me think, no one's coming to save you. Why don't you try it out? You can easily get another job if it doesn't work out, even though I didn't half believe, you don't believe these things, but you've gotta say these things to yourself cuz it's not easy. But I thought if I can just make £1,000 a month, because I wasn't earning a fortune, then why not? And that is it. I literally, and I was, I remember handing my notice, so I've got a lot of respect for the directors at, uh, my old firm, even though they scared me. I'm not gonna lie. And they probably scared a lot of people. That's just the stigma of it. Let's be honest. Um, I was shaking, physically shaking. And wavering when I was handing my notice in, because I cared about that business like it was my own. And that's how I treat everything in life, and I wish more people would do that with anything they put in. Put in your whole, like it's yours, because it speaks volumes, I think. Yeah, it was the hardest decision of my life because I got on with the people there. It was a scary world out there, but soon had my little plan on LinkedIn on how I was going to embrace this change.

So you decided you're going to start your own business, but you knew you were going to do it slightly differently than how a traditional accountancy firm would do it. What was the concept at the time for FutureCloud and how did it evolve?

So the concept at the time was to be real-time data digital account. So we are going to be doing it so slick, so automated. You won't have to wait till your year end to know what your profit is and how to be your taxes and have that conversation well in advance. We will do the whole process for the client. So for example, tradesmen, they always, they always want things cheap, don't they? They think I'll just do my accounts at year end, but the time they spend printing statements collecting receipts, they're causing their own stress and headache. Then they're shocked when they get a tax bill that's like higher than what they thought, or they're trying to wipe out their tax because it's better, but then they're living on the edge. So I thought, if say we've got tradesmen that for the reassurance and the assurance that it's getting done, pay a monthly fee and by the year end it's like, oh, I don't have to think about that because I've got someone that knows exactly what they're saying and doing. And we can get it sorted. And then what I realized is I didn't want to stop with the smaller tradesmen. I wanted to go, you can go bigger than this. So we did, we trialed bigger companies and tried different ways and you're adapting all the time. But then the main difference is we're approachable at the beginning. We don't have a boardroom. We do stuff online. I was using Zoom before the pandemic because Zoom, I thought, why would you travel and spend an hour traveling to a meeting and an hour coming home when you could just do it online nowadays? And a lot of people are on board with that. But then obviously lockdown hit 7, 8 months later and it was like, oh, phew, we know what to do with all these video calls. Yeah, the powerful message, what we were trying to achieve was being hands-on, relatable, easy to talk to, on top of your accounts, month by month, where you're at, and you just pay us a monthly fee. Done. And at the beginning, it was just you.

How scary was that?

It wasn't just me. It wasn't? Okay. It wasn't. So I used to run a networking event. So my idea was to run a social in Newark that wasn't a formal environment. And this is while I was at my old firm and they loved the idea of that, bringing professionals together in a social environment. I ran that for 7 years, by the way, and that was a hell of a lot of work. Raised a lot of money for charity, got people together. I met my business partner, she came to one of my events and we started talking. So yeah, so we got together and it was almost like I had all the ideas and she was on board with using the likes of Xero and all the digital tech. So we did come together as a twosome at the beginning. And by the end of 20— we started April 2019 and by the end of 2019, we had 2 employees. There was 4 of us and an office. So that's how quickly we like scaled and grew it. And every year since then, we hired 2 more people. But they, we split up this year, May 2024. I bought her out. So I am the sole owner of FutureClass. Congratulations. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you.

Now that we know a bit more about this twist, tell me about the power of partnerships and co-founders?

The power of it is amazing when you've got two— we were very opposite, very opposite dynamic. So she was more the operations, I was more the face of it, the ideas, the visionary. I was more the passion for it, whereas Charlotte was more behind the scenes, doing the operations, that type of thing. So it was a great yin and yang. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I can't think of the word. So brilliant. Then we'd have your monthly meetings together and you have to have that communication. So when I, when I felt really unhappy with the direction and there was a few things going on internally that wasn't the values of mine that I was sharing outwardly, I quickly realized there's a problem. What you need to do as a business, whether it's your partners, whether it's a hiring manager, employees, you've got to communicate when you feel something's not right. I trust my gut a lot. And that's where it was probably beginning of 2023, I started noticing I wasn't myself. And I've lost that drive to bring loads of clients in almost because I'd moved something internally wasn't right without giving everything away. And when you feel like there's something not right, you've got to have that conversation. And when I had that conversation, that's when we decided to part ways. So all for the better, but it was really uncomfortable, like to the point where it was easier for me to go, let's just sell then. Because actually in 5 years, it was literally the 5-year mark, we've built a profitable business with employees. And it was incredible, but it was my, I felt like it was mine. Like I would fight, there was no way it was anybody else's. That's how I felt about it. And she might have a different story to how she felt. I know, I know it was mine. I'm the visionary. I was, I believed in it that much that I had, I had to buy it.

Before we talk about the future direction and the changes you've implemented in FutureCloud after you, you took sole ownership, I'm curious to hear your learnings about scaling up, as you said, you hired 2 people every year. I'm sure there were plenty of learnings in that process as well. What sort of learnings can you share from that journey?

It was amazing experience hiring people. It really, really was. But then when you start losing people, that's when you have to relook at why. And you've always got to look as an owner, it's always on you. As an employer. Being an employer is the loneliest job in the world. And quickly realize if you and someone else aren't on the same page with where you're going with it, it's never gonna work. So with the employees in it, can see why it, we stopped driving it forward. So what I've learned, people, you can't treat everyone the same. You've got to treat them how they need to be treated. You need to ask them. People are scared of that, that chat, that discussion. But I'm implementing that. That's another, that's a change that's coming in, that being more head of it. Because I used to get told, you don't need to ask them if they're all right. Don't, don't create problems. So I was up against what I wanted to do to what someone else's opinion was. So. That's a change. And also I hear from a lot of businesses that if they hire a couple of people and it doesn't work out, they give up. But I haven't given up and a lot haven't worked out. And a lot I look back and think, God, I could cringe at that procedure or that thing we didn't do. But it's a learning and a lesson to do it better. And it has been, when I wasn't born knowing how to run a business. No one is, but you've got to give it, you've got to give it a go. I hate that term saying you can only do your best. That's all I hear. I can only do my best. That isn't good enough. It's not just about doing your best and they've got to like it or lump it. You've got to, so, so my big change is the employees are helping with that process who actually work with the people. I don't work with them. So there's no point in someone just working, coming to work with me. That doesn't make any sense. So it's, it's changing, changing stuff and noting everything and it's just been a lot, but it hasn't put me off. I'm like, can't wait to get more employees. Do you see what I'm saying? You know where people are like, oh, this didn't work out and they left and wonder what they think of me. I know I've made mistakes. I say I have to take responsibility for it, but I'm learning. I'm learning and I will make it better. I will make it better.

So with that experience in the bag, what are some red flags and some green flags when you're hiring and scaling up?

So a toxic employee can wreak havoc on everybody. You want people that are can-do to your face and behind your back. So you've, and also I go a lot with my gut and it's not always going to be right. I'm not, it's not, but I do go with my gut. You've got to get the team vibe right. And the way you can get the team vibe right is me actually outwardly saying, I want flexibility. I don't want to micromanage, but I also think you should manage your own diary, but I will be coming like to you if I can't see stuff's getting done. I don't mind. So just being so open and I want to be open with everything. It's yeah, it's red flags, especially when you interview. Yeah. I try, the thing I'm learning, I've got to stop seeing the good in everyone. Because it can backfire when you do that. And I want to see the good in everyone. Um, maybe how they talk about their previous employment. We've had that before and then that didn't work out with us. So within 5 months, didn't work out, it's not working. And I remember towards an end of an interview, they said something that I thought, oh, that don't sound right. But no, I ignored it. I thought, well, they can do this and they can do that. I also think attitude for me is so much more important than sometimes, well, they're amazing at it. If their attitude stinks and they're bringing toxic behaviors, again, that's never going to work. And I've learned that the hard way, especially when they're really good work, like good at the job. If they're toxic on everyone and everyone's nervous around people. It's never going to work.

So what are the changes you're implementing now moving forward, being in full control of your business baby and having a chance to sprint forward?

I wrote a lot of notes on holiday actually, because I read a book, but we'll talk about that after. But a lot of the changes, systems, systems for everything. So there's processes for everything, onboarding. To setups, to bookkeeping. So systems, people-wise, being transparent. So the managers that are coming through, that they're running it and they're helping me build it. So that's a change. It's more the systems and the workflows there and how you deal with people, I suppose. Yeah, it's been a lot. I'm not gonna lie. I'm looking at being more profitable, so The business is already doing better than it did from July this year. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. I've made some decisions and changes within some of the clients we've got. Again, a bit uncomfortable. Some things have worked out, some things aren't, which has made a difference, a big difference, which is really, it's really cool, but it's still scary because like I've, I'm hiring somebody that's going to help drive the business forward, but I know it's going to dent my profit, but I also think if you don't do that. Where's it, what, where's the growth then? Do you know, it's really hard, but I am riding the waves.

And in a way, you are the face of your business in driving clients. You've leveraged personal branding and your image to grow it. You're very active on social media and you also share a lot from your personal life. Yeah. What are your learnings from this process, especially in this overconnected world? Is there a danger that people over-identify you with your business's services?

No, it's a difficult one. Building a personal brand, I didn't do it to build a per— I didn't know what personal brand was when I started. But the opportunities I have there is unbelievable once you're brave and speak about your business. What you do as a person, more people want to help you out. You more, you build a community. I never thought I'd speak at events ever. I was too scared to. I'd never do that, but I'm doing that. I get paid. I've been paid to speak at events. I never, cuz I thought that was a certain skill or certain something. I don't know. It's almost like I want to help others achieve what I'm doing. So when I talk about my business growth and what I'm planning on doing and the mistakes. I want to share that so other people with their businesses try and do the same and go, well, if she can do it, I've not got anything any more different to what you've got, for example. So why can't you try these things? But it isn't going to be easy, but it's not meant to be. I always keep saying it's not meant to be easy.

So you talk a lot about sales and business owners and powering their businesses. What would be some tips and tricks? That people who are just starting up in business or who are looking to grow their business should keep in mind and apply?

You need a very good marketing strategy. I didn't have a strategy as such, but the reason why I say that was I picked the time for an accounting industry. There wasn't many on LinkedIn sharing as much as what I was sharing. And obviously it quickly caught on. You need to talk about systems you use and why you want to save tax for people. And I would definitely, definitely get online. As you as a person and just build into it. Cause I definitely had to build into it. I didn't jump and just go for it. So I definitely start looking at your market, your competition, what everybody else is doing. Just build the feel for it. And then definitely, definitely get an online presence because I feel like that, see how celebrities, whether ones from the TV, like film stars and all. I reckon it's gonna be, you're more like your influencers are gonna come through as your celebs that the young generation are really knowing about.

Just like, for example, and because you have children, I will mention MrBeast. He is huge on YouTube, hundreds of millions of followers, but it's, it's not somebody who you would see regularly on TV unless it's through the YouTube app. Exactly.

I don't know. I like to think where the kids are hanging out, where the younger generation are hanging out, especially as an accounting firm with young entrepreneurs coming through, they'll want someone that they can just go, can you tell me what this is and why? Rather than a whole jargon and it's slow processes. People are impatient. They want answers like this, don't they? And I want the systems to be able to provide that. So I'm still building into that. Like AI's coming through. I'm not scared by it. I see it as an opportunity.

How are you deploying AI in your business? Are you using it in business or personal life at the moment?

No, I'm not. The only thing we'll be using it for is note-taking, which makes sense because then you could just copy-paste and put it in the channel that we do at the minute for our client notes and onboarding notes. Potentially with our marketing, there's a whole thing I need to look at. And also there were some accounting AI tools that I was asked to look at. Where it's a bit like ChatGPT where you're asking an accounting question and it throws it straight at you. But there's lots to progress in that, in that field, in that area. Um, but I'm not afraid of it and we're going to automate as much as possible. There are bots that can do your bookkeeping apparently. Obviously I've not looked at that yet, but not so much bookkeeping, but just doing bank recs and helping that side of things. So that's really interesting that's coming through because what clients Clients don't care if the bookkeeping's done. They just want to know, like, the value. Where can you save this and what can you do here? And what's your future plan? They just need accountability and someone to talk to.

Let's go into business and some accounting tips. What did you see as the main mistakes businesses can make with their finances and accounting?

Oh, this is so big. So a lot of businesses will wait a year and a half. That's the sweet spot where they've done no accounting at all. And they've just drawn money out and it's like, oh, because they think they haven't got the money at the beginning, which many, I'm not saying everyone has a pot of money, but I also think if you do invest in the right people around you, you'll get to where you want to quicker and make more money. So it's just believing in and trusting in the people you want to work with. Because a lot of people just say, oh, I'll just get it done cheap and try and get it done next year. Don't worry about it, bury the heads. But actually, you look at your ins and outs from the beginning, which is really uncomfortable. That's why people avoid it. Well, I'm only making that. And that's the scare. It's like they just want to, and I've seen it loads of times. It's almost like it's there in black and white, but they kind of don't want to see it. But they do, but they don't want to hear that. And then, but once they do, they can make the business better because they can see, well, actually. So many businesses as well, and I speak about this on my podcast with my friend Jordan, who's a therapist. Her partner set up a van business, catering van. Mm-hmm. But he doesn't really know the ins and outs of, he's only just literally started. But it's easy to take money and spend it and assume because it's there in your hands that you're making money, but you're not necessarily. You need to see it black and white. And then if you're not, do something so you're profitable. Because I remember, I remember having to ring a client about 3 years ago and say, I need to increase your fee because the time on our clock, it's just ridiculous and can't be, it's not profitable sort of thing. And I was honest and she was like, no, I understand that, but I won't be able to pay that. So even though they could, they chose not to. And it was like, felt gutted at the time. But I knew it was the right decision. I knew our help and support and value was so good that actually, but I learned the hard way at the beginning of any business, you might lose money to start with because you're learning on your right client how to price. So I would say systems from day one. So that's the top mistakes.

Make sure you begin accounting in one way or another. Is there a particular tool you would, you recommend and work in tandem with? Is it Xero, FreeAgent?

Yeah, we use them all to be fair. Now, now that's another thing we're bringing in that it wasn't just a Xero practice. There's so many tools out there we want to try and we do guide our clients. I don't say to the client, you choose. I'm like, no, use Xero. We know this one inside and out, but we have got all the ones. If they've come to us on QuickBooks, that's fine. Definitely look at Xero and systems and also saving. Money, always save something back, get into the habit. Like I said, I'm really good with saving money. I always have been from a young age. That's how I bought my first house. I bought my first house, my goal was before 30, but I did it when I did it at 29. Again, with two small kids. No one can say to me, and that's how I'm a bit smug about it, because no one can say, is it all right for you? Because it wasn't all right for me. It was really hard. And I've done it on I think I was working at the time 30 hours a week and, but it was a saving and cutting back. So saving is such an important thing in business. And then you have something left over as a bonus because you always do if you save right.

So how much would you recommend a business should save from their takings and/or profits?

Well, it depends if you're a company to a sole trader, but 20% is a good starting point. Just to keep it easy and basic right now. And then, but you've got to check it after about 3 months. Don't just save 20% forever and ever and more. Yeah. Then recheck it and then look at things again because the way HMRC are working for the future, it sounds like they're going to be doing quarterly tax returns in by 2027. Imagine doing quarterly personal tax return submission. So I think the accounting industry is going to boom even more. Because more people are going to be like panicked. I need the system, but you've got to think to yourself, anyone listening and thinking, oh, I can't afford that. Think of your stress and where your time is best spent. Your time is best spent making money for your business. It's like me getting a cleaner. I used to be obsessed with cleaning, do it myself, and I'll do everything myself. I'm better at it. But actually, it used to cause me stress and hell and upset. And I just think it made my day miserable. So you've got to think what's going to help you improve what you're doing. And if that's outsourcing a lot of stuff, then bloody do it. I make it sound so easy, it's not.

What are some myths that a lot of businesses fall for and then they come to you, Francesca, help me?

That cheap is always better. I have had that where I've quoted and they've gone somewhere else and then they've come back. And I'm like, yeah, that's quite cool. Yeah, cheaper, they think cheaper is better and it's not. The also, the also thing with the team as well, I want to build a team that is similar to my values on how we respond to clients. So it isn't a case of Francesco, I need your help. It's I need your team to do this for me. But I also love having meetings with the clients. Most of my clients won't come to me, but I am in some of the meetings because I need to hire people that are better than me at some of the stuff that I don't want to do. And that's fact. And I always say my team are better than me, but I like the conversation side of things, the drive, the growth. So I like that strategy chat. And a lot of clients are scared to even do that, aren't they? Scared to have that conversation. So I know where my best time's spent and where my weaknesses are and where my strengths are. And you have to do that quickly if you're hiring. And write it down because my team, I even allow the team as well. They laugh at me because I can jump from subject to subject. Where's this? Where's this? Where's this? Where's this? And then they have to rein it all in and we joke about it and we're open about it. I say joke, we're open about it. I also know how I am. So it's like, I need to slow because not everyone works the same. So it's, it's yeah, being open.

I'm going to try and get another little piece of advice from you because that's something that I've been, uh, I've been hearing from, from a lot of entrepreneurs and at business networking events, and everybody's getting all sorts of mixed signals from their accountants. What is okay to spend as a business expense on your business card versus personal one? If you're going to buy, say, a shirt to go to a business meeting versus what is clearly, say, a business lunch or a coffee, or even—

So your shirt, if you have a logo on your shirt, a tiny logo on your shirt branding, then that's for the business. Just buy suits willy-nilly and go, it's a business expense unless it's got your logo on it somewhere. Just to make it as simple as that. I have got an expense fact sheet. So if anyone wants, for a limited company and sole trader, if anyone wants that, then you could give them my details or they can comment.

I'll put a link in the description in the show notes so they can check it out.

Yeah, find me on LinkedIn. But it is interesting because a lot of people, you've just got to think, is this fully for the business or is it not? But there's ways around everything. There's ways around everything, especially for tracking what you're doing and why. Think about why you're doing it as well. Don't just spend it for the sake of it. A lot of people spend for the sake of it.

Think about it. You now have 4 children.

Yeah, so 2 mine, 2 my husband's.

A full-time growing business.

You're gonna make me sound a nutter. Go on.

And how do you juggle it all? What are your systems, habits that keep you productive and motivated?

So discipline. I did a post about motivation and discipline, and I think I am just disciplined to stuff that I need to do. But what I use is my calendar on my phone. Fitness has saved my life. Because it mentally calms me, even though it's hard to go some days. Because I've got a habit of it, I don't wait for my motivation to kick in. There's stuff to do with marketing that I'm doing, and there's a lot of things I think, oh God, don't, I can't be bothered. I don't want to. But then I have to think about my why and after, well, that'll save you doing that next week. For example, think ahead a little bit. A lot of people just think in the now. And it is good to think in the now for a lot of stuff, but when it comes to business planning, that's where you've got to kick in with your future thinking, which is really hard for a lot of people. But think how your future self will feel once you've done that training session, for example. And you do, you have to create your own energy, and that's what fitness has done for me. So the habits are formed. It's like drinking water, for example. If it's there with you, And you build a habit. I do it without even thinking. My body just knows I need 2 to 3 liters of water a day. And that's, that's that done now. And also even wearing an outfit, get a branded top that you can wear and not think about, need to think about a different outfit and stress yourself out. Just wear a branded top every single day and that's okay. Do things that's going to help you, but start slowly. So many people go, right, I'm going to do my running, lose weight, eat 5 pieces of fruit every day. It's all too much.

Just too much at once. So small steps and more action towards your goals.

So I'm, so for a LinkedIn example, I thought, oh, I'll do a post this morning. And I went on and then my mind went blank because I don't schedule any of my posts. And I thought, oh, I don't know what I'm writing. I'm going to do a video. I'll do a video. I'll say I've done a video with you. I'm going to do a video for LinkedIn. I'll do it before I go physio or I'll do it this afternoon. I haven't done a natural video content for a while. I might even talk about my groans and moans about some of the client meetings. It's part of being real. It's part of being real. And I think people are scared to be themselves in case they're not liked, but I've learned to not be. It's horrible not being liked. Friggin' still hate it now. But then I think, do I like everybody? Do you like everybody? Come on, who do you not like?

I have been in media for over 15 years and I know you can never win and you can't make everybody happy. There will be people who love what you do and there will be people who hate what you do or how you present yourself. So from my experience, I have developed very thick skin and that's why after 15 years of being behind the camera and behind the screen, I am now on screen and happy to show my face and talk to people and learn so much from them at the same time.

Yeah, I'm sure we'll have more conversations after this podcast. Absolutely. I didn't even know you were Lincoln Way, so this is really interesting. But anyway, anyway, anyway. Yes, so I think—

More steps and more action towards your goals. So you exercise a lot and you make sure you drink your water, which which is very important. You mentioned earlier on that you stopped drinking. Did you pick it up socially again, or you've been teetotal since?

So the last time I had a drink was my wedding in June this year, where I had a couple of sips, uh, Prosecco, and I thought, I've stopped drinking. I'd already stopped drinking the year before. I've stopped drinking for probably about 3 years and had that one in June just to celebrate, it was my wedding. I had a sip on my honeymoon when they got us a champagne. I said, oh, go on Steve, I'll have a glass with you. And I had one sip. So I don't know if it's something in my brain that says, no, don't do that. And I'm being strict because I didn't stop because I just didn't really like the taste. So I wasn't like a, I was a binge drinker where at the weekends, yeah, let's do this. But I really didn't wanna do it. I did it to fit in. Mm-hmm. So my reason for doing it wasn't because I loved the taste anyway. So for me it was actually quite easy to not do it. But I also think it affects your sleep, which impacts my performance, my training, impacts my performance in my business. And I have a massive respect for people that don't drink and don't stick to society drinking, but a lot of people like the taste, so who am I to judge them? I don't judge them cuz I don't want people to judge me for not, but it has impacted my life in a positive way. Me personally.

How often do you train?

5 days a week at the minute, although I'm a little bit injured at the minute, but we work around these things.

And how do you juggle your family time in between training and of course the business?

So for example, I'm meeting my sister on Wednesday next week before Christmas. We're going out for the day with my daughter and son and her 2 children. They're off school earlier than everybody else. And so we're going out, but my daughter's 19. It's like, she doesn't need me. But when they, when I started the business and she was like 13, 14, um, and my son was 10, around 10 years old, it wasn't easy. It was a juggle, but again, you can put, put time in your diary, as sad as that sounds. For family time, because you can have more quality family time where it's not just dribs and drabs. You say, right, the full day on a Saturday is this. I was pretty poor at that, I am gonna admit. But it's sacrifices and communication with your kids. And I do speak to Bella now, even still, my oldest, and say that it was a struggle. And sometimes I do have that guilt, the mum guilt. There's a dad guilt, but I do have that, and I think That's normal. You could be a stay-at-home mom and go out for an evening and you still get mom guilt anyway. So it's like you can't win. So in, in fact, I just ride that guilt, talk about it, and see if I want to change it. And if you really want to change it, you'll make the change.

You mentioned it twice already, and it's typically a question that I keep for the end of the chat, but I'm going to go into it now. There's no success without sacrifice. Yeah. And I wanted to ask you, what is the biggest sacrifice you had to make to be where you are today?

That's a really good question. Probably some of my happiness, which is— no one's ever asked me that before. So in order to make the team happy, I've sacrificed feeling a bit unhappy. Unhappy at times, or you think of others a lot when you're a business owner. Mm-hmm. And then I have to bring it back and go, right, what's gonna make you happy? And probably time with, I remember the other week before I went away on holiday, walking, where did I go? I can't remember. Nisnip into the shops in town. I actually felt weird doing that. It's almost like I'd be scared to see anyone because it's like, You're in town shopping. You should be on social media. You're working all the time. So, um, yeah, probably some of my happiness at times. And I bet any business owner could say that, you know, they have, they have. Yeah. They're not going to be happy, but would you be happy all the time being at home, being part-time job? There's always something to not be grateful for. Like I've got to remember to be more grateful. Is what I'm gonna say. Because it's easy to say, what next? What next? What next? Because that's what I do. What's next? I'm doing all the things now that the younger me would've been begging for, and now I'm already going, what's next? What's next? What's next? So I don't know if that's quite healthy, but again, figuring it out as I go along.

You started your business before the pandemic, but quickly after, that event came and impacted the entire world. Yeah. And I wanted to have your take on remote and hybrid work and how can you manage teams effectively in this way? I know you have, you have an office, you're looking possibly for a second one to, to bring people in, but you're also now at home when we're having this chat. So there is a bit of flexibility there.

Yeah, very much so. There's a lot of flexibility with our team. We've learned you can do a lot from remote. Mm-hmm. Systems in place. There's Teams for the quick video call messaging. People are very good at messages, as you know, with phones. They like to hide behind a screen, don't they? And just throw a quick message rather than sitting next to someone to be trained. Some people just want a message to say, this is how this works. Can you follow this process? And that's why you need processes that people can get on and read. There's a good tool out there called Scribe. Have you heard of it? That's an AI tool that I should have mentioned earlier. So that follows, if you do something on the internet, it will follow what you're doing and put it in a document. And there's a piece of information that we can save and use at a later stage. I am very torn about offices. The old, the, the vision back in 19, mm-hmm, for me was probably creating hubs remotely and then just coming together and hiring a room and whatnot. But then when, with my business partner, I was like, let's get an office. Okay, let's do that. And then the pandemic hits. We had our offices 2 months before it was like, oh, you're working from home anyway. I was like, oh my God. I think we still paid the rent as well. So, um, that happened, but it was quite easy to work remotely. It will, you, if anything that you really want, you'll make it work. And it's simple as that. And you get the whole team on board and go, right, we're going to have an open discussion. We're thinking about doing fully remote. How does everybody feel? But just remember, we're not going to please everybody, but here's a card. Can you write down exactly what you want? Or a voting button or whatever. Just get some feedback to start with. But if you include them from your first visionary thought, You're gonna, they're gonna be more on the page with you than, than, than not. If you just throw at them, this is what we're doing, do you, you're working from home, get your laptops, right team, let's all work together on this. They'll be like, chaos, and they don't care about me, and why wouldn't they tell us, and do you like working from home? And that's where all the like toxic behaviors can happen. So yeah, but I'm not gonna always get it right. And again, being open can still upset somebody. You've just gotta find what works for you. But I think remote can work, really work.

But now you're working in a hybrid environment. Hybrid, yeah. You mentioned that on your honeymoon, you read an interesting book that inspired you and you took a lot of notes. Tell me about the book and some other books that inspired you in business and life, who made the Francesca you are today.

My first book that sticks out when I read it as I started FutureCloud was The Chimp Paradox. Have you heard of that one?

Actually, it was mentioned to me in another interview this week. Yes. Oh my God.

That's so interesting. So that helped me manage me. Then this book I read 5 and a half years later was recommended and it's called The E-Myth Revisited. Have you heard of that one?

No. Tell me about it.

It's so good in the fact of how to scale your business. So basically the example is a baker and he's, he's a business owner and entrepreneur and whatnot who wrote the book. And she was happy when she was just baking and employed. She had the vision to open her own business, but then all of a sudden you're a marketer, an accountant, a baker, and doing everything. And then she was burning herself out and losing the love for it. And then it's, he comes in and I won't give too much away. I think everyone can read it, but he comes in and gives her the vision on how to build it so she has more freedom, but builds a great bakery as an example. But there's other examples along the way and he does make it sound very easy. But in theory, there's a lot of things that I am trying to implement in there. So I had a lot of like, oh yes, that's what I've been trying to do. And it is a lot of like reassurance that where I'm going. So it got me all excited while I was away and that was the second week and it was almost like, I want to get get home to implement. I wrote in my notes, let me have a look if they're on here. My, uh, see.

That's another tip for productivity, always writing down on your notes, on your phone or your iPad, wherever you are, writing it down when it comes to mind, because otherwise you will forget it.

Exactly. I don't think you'd be able to see it on this live. No. Well, there was a load of notes I wrote, um, with ideas. That I'm just going to talk to the managers on Tuesday because we've got a meeting and then they can come with ideas and we thrash it out. But yeah, the book got me like, yeah, okay, this is what I'm trying to do here. This is great that he's saying do that. It's almost permission, isn't it? People want permission because they're not sure. It's like with starting Future Cloud, when I came bounced onto LinkedIn with my hoodie, Future Cloud hoodie, and people say, you're an accountant dressed like that. I know I would've got a bit of like, what's she doing? And then people were like, an amount of like accountancy firms that then started getting hoodies and rebranding. It's like, this is, this is like a knock-on effect here. Challenging the stereotypes of accountants. Yes, definitely. So it's, uh, yeah, that book's really interesting. And I wouldn't mind reading another similar sort of book. I do like reading books when I make time. I need to make more time.

I will make sure that I include these couple of books in the show notes for this episode. And for everybody listening as well, or tuning in, there's the Millennial Masters Book Club, which comes out every Wednesday where I share interesting business books with key takeaways for those short on time, and then you can read at your leisure. I like that. Francesca, you've had quite a journey. You've learned a lot, you've built a business and then taken it full on board and now you're reaching for new heights. Do you have any role models?

I do like, and this is nothing related, but you know who I like to follow? At the time I would watch Gary Vee a lot. I don't anymore. But for one point I did like—

he's been mentioned by a few people.

Yeah. Yeah. But not, I'm not a follower now, which is really interesting, but that's someone I can remember back. Then, um, and he does repeat a lot of stuff after a while, but Joe Wicks, Body Coach. Yes. I love, I love him and what he's about. I've loved him for years. I just, I just love the fact that he's built his business on being him and he stuck to that and he shares like his family and his personal stuff. And yeah, he's one that I followed and still follow for a long time. So I want to meet him one day if you know him.

You're emulating him possibly a bit. You started sharing a bit more about your home life, your family, your personal trips. How does it feel to expose all that on social media alongside your business?

It feels vulnerable. I'm not going to lie. It feels very vulnerable. I'm like, well, I want to do it though, but it does feel uncomfortable at times. And then other times it could be a day. It's interesting. Some days I don't feel it. Some days I'm like, oh, I think I wanted to delete that. I don't know if I should have put that. And then I just go, no, actually, that is you. Don't worry about it. And it's that whole talking process. And then you move on to the next.

So you don't delete stuff, even if you change your mind, you have to stick to your first gut instinct of getting it out there.

People forget very quickly. No one's actually that interested that you think. They're looking at their own lives.

So if you were to write a letter to Francesca 10 years ago when she was an accountant and she was thinking of starting her business, or to 5 years ago to Francesca who started a business, what would you say to yourself, to your younger self?

It's so cliché, but it is just to believe in yourself a bit more. It's that whole, I'm glad obviously I didn't have any letters back then and I wish I knew though that I would get somewhere with it, but maybe it's good that I didn't because there's no pressure. I didn't know I was going to, if someone said to me, if you do this, you'll own your own business and look after like team, team members, might have put me off, might have put anyone off. But because I did it slowly but surely, oh, you're definitely going to speak at that event at Accountex at Excel London. You'll be able to speak at that event in 10 years. If you keep going, I'll be like, no, no, no, no, I won't stop. So it's interesting, but you, it's almost like, don't, I wouldn't say anything different because it's like believing yourself more. That's all it takes really. I believe in that. I got told by someone that I'm not gonna name names, I'm not capable. I don't see value. And you need more than self-belief in business. And I was like, wow. And I'm the opposite to any of those things. And I thought, get me out, drop me out of this. Do you know what I mean? So I just think—

and you prove them wrong.

Prove them wrong. And you've got to be around people that see your value, believe in you, believe in themselves as people and aren't insecure. Maybe use this as a short. For real. Definitely.

But that brings me on to maybe what could be our final question, believing in yourself. Imposter syndrome creeps up on everybody. Yeah.

How do you manage to overcome it? So let's think, be around the right people. It's, brings that down less, especially in business. If I'm going to do a speaking event and I'm like, oh, who's watching this, that, the other, I have to reassure myself. Do you like your content? Do you like what you're going to say? Is, are you keeping yourself real? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, fine, keep going. It's a lot of self-reassurance. If you can reassure yourself and not constantly rely on someone else to reassure you, the better. It's nice to go, right, to your mate, I need some help, I'm worrying about this speaking event. But you can't always rely on people. Rely on yourself and get reassuring of yourself. So I do a lot of that and just be open to reassured, like talking down at yourself and going, right, you're all right. It's gonna be fine. You've done it before. Or if it's your first time, like me, I lost sleep the night before. I was shaking all day, could barely eat, could barely take it all in. But somehow I performed, somehow. It wasn't to my best ability. I would cringe at probably how I sounded. I probably sounded like a rabbit at headlights. But you've got to try and do the first step. And, and what keeps me going with doing that is I love sharing. I love helping others, them to go, oh, like I said to you earlier, I want to be able to do that then if she can do it, bloody hell. But yeah, it's sharing it, sharing in your why. It's easy to give up on something when you don't really get why you're doing it.

With public speaking, from my experience and another Millennial Master I've been speaking this week, is all about getting those reps in. So, and you know that from your sporting background. The more you do it, the better you get at it. And now that you've got your first few out of the way, the only way is up. Exactly that.

Exactly that. But you also, you've got to remember, even if you've built your team, you've got the car, you've got the help, there's still going to be something that, like, will throw you again and you've just got to be resilient all over again and go again and then there'll be something else and then you've got to think outside the box again and try something out. As long as you know that, because I was very good at, and this is really bad, by next week that meeting will be over and it'll all be sorted and I'll be all right again. And if I keep doing that and then by next week you think, well, it's a bit of anticlimax. I feel, feel a bit miserable about it actually. If you catch yourself doing that, and which is what I'm learning now, it's like this time next month I'll be earning that net and then I'll feel better. Never feel, you'll never feel better. And that's what I'm learning, that it's all part and parcel. You know, someone handing their notice in just before I go on holiday, you know, I just think, oh, then, you know, after all what I've done and they're, you know, but if they've got to think about them, what's right for them. So I also have to reframe it really quickly and go, no, it's okay. We'll work it out. Always work it out. It's fine. And it was, it is always fine. So, yeah. Let's see how many people, see how many business owners listen and message us and see if they can relate to any my truth bomb. I'm sure they can.

And it's been an enlightening discussion. I loved our real talk. Thank you so much for joining me on Millennial Masters. And I can't wait to see what you do next with Future Cloud Accounting.

Thank you. Thanks for sticking till the end for another great episode of Millennial Masters. But don't keep this to yourself. Yourself, please share the wisdom with someone else, and it will also help me spread the word. Don't miss out on my book club and extra features. Get them in your inbox every week. Simply subscribe on millennialmasters.net. Catch you next week.