Why personal brand is your #1 sales strategy 🎙️ | Freddie Pullen

I don't like this narrative that I'm seeing being pushed in the media of everyone should just quit and become an entrepreneur because it's not for everyone for sure. The tolerance for risk has to be high and you have to be willing to sacrifice at least those 3 things that I just mentioned, which are all pretty high on most people's values.

For an indeterminate period of time as well.

Exactly.

It's not a rule that 9 to 12 months only.

Exactly. That's a great point. It's a great point. And yeah, I know people that have been in business for 10, 15 years and it's still just a very, very hard thing to do.

This week's Millennial Master is Freddie Pullen, founder of The Healthy Entrepreneur and host of The Healthy Hustle podcast. Freddie quit a six-figure job, left the UK, and moved to Dubai with no plan, just a belief that there was a better way to build. Now he helps CEOs grow their personal brands and become standout podcast guests. In this episode, we talk about why most people shouldn't become entrepreneurs, the podcast guesting playbook that actually works, and how to build a healthy hustle and still win big. Millennial Masters is brought to you by Jolt, fast, reliable web hosting built for founders. Whether you're launching a WordPress site, Building a website or scaling an app? Jolt gives your project a rock-solid home starting from just £3.95 a month. You'll get 99.99% uptime, support in under 30 seconds, and flexible payment options including Bitcoin and Amex, so you can rack up those points while you build. Get your first 3 months free at jolt.co.uk/utube. K, smart hosting for people building what's next.

Freddie, welcome to Millennial Masters. How are you today?

Hi, Daniel. Thanks for having me. I'm very well. How are you?

Great, thank you. And I'm excited to have you on, which is why we're going to dive straight in because I know both of your parents work in the police force. And I told you, so did my dad, but you ended up going and studying business for your educational route. And then you ended up working in digital publishing. What's the story behind that? What attracted you to it?

Yeah, of course. Yeah, both my parents, they're both retired now, but they are both police officers for 30+ years. So when I was growing up, I've got one younger brother, we weren't exposed to entrepreneurship at all. It was all government jobs, shift work, 9 to 5, my path was very much laid out like a conveyor belt for me. Go through school, try and get to university, follow the next conveyor belt towards a job, maybe in, you know, a government job, whatever it might be. But from about, I think, 16, 17, there was an option to study business studies and economics was part of that. And I was just fascinated by everything business. I think The Apprentice was on TV at the time. Dragon's Den was in its second or third series. I just started to understand maybe there's something more there, you know, maybe there's other options. And so I went to university, but I had a gap year before I started various things. I did a bit of skydiving. I tried to get my motorbike license. I worked in a job. I started a little business. Couldn't really get anyone around me that was showing me an alternative path, but I thought there was something there. My parents were like, no, no, no, just go to university. No one in the family had been to university. You could be the first, you know, you could, you could fly the flag. And you know, when you're 17, 18, 19, you think, okay, I'll just, I'll just do that. But I knew there was something different. And so I went to university, I did a business management degree. I got little jobs and started little side hustles throughout university to try and make myself stand out. I'm a big believer that people that have found success have thought slightly differently about their journey and where they're going and how they can stand out. And so my second year—

What's the taste about your little side hustles? 'cause they tend to say a lot about entrepreneurs and everybody had a bit of selling sweets, but you didn't do that at university.

We did this before university. I did, uh, I had a company called— just before university, I had a company called Great Gardens. So me and my brother would go and mow gardens and wash cars. In my gap year, I started a business effectively selling t-shirts at events. So we'd go and make a t-shirt about rugby festivals and go to a rugby festival or a music festival and try and do the same thing. At university, I was doing tours for the university and then I realized that I didn't need the university to market them. I could just do it myself. If people were turning up, I would just take them around on my own, off my own back. I went to France for a semester because I could, no one else in the year wanted to do it, but it was an option. So I went and studied in the south of France. And then when I finished university, I thought I'm still not different enough. And so I stayed on and did an economics master's degree because I just wanted there to be something different. And during that master's degree, you know, paying for university was so hard. I got a full-time job. So I did a full-time master's alongside a full-time job. And my first job was as an analyst at a hospitality company. So effectively, in the UK, a pub company, £200 million businesses, all of them pubs. And I would— my job was to analyze their performance and give advice, whatever advice I could give on trends, or maybe it was power, maybe it was media, whatever it might be, which is cool. But I was around a lot of people in there in their 60s. I was 20, 21, 22. I was really becoming an old man wearing old man clothes. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but it was changing my perspective of where I wanted my journey to go. And so I was looking for other jobs. I wanted to have something where I was around young people. The opportunity came up to work at a company called Future, which is, it's the world's largest digital publisher. And I didn't know at the time that's the company it was. In fact, I'd actually I got down to the last 2 from 1,000 people who were interviewed for a job just about 5 miles away in Bristol for the UK's biggest investment bank. And I was like, I'm gonna work there. I'm gonna be a banker of finance. I'm gonna be a finance bro. I didn't get that job. But in the meantime, I had applied for Future and I'd written a covering letter, which was supposed to answer the question, why is this your dream job? And because I thought I was gonna get this finance job, I wrote it a bit slapstick. I wrote about why I wanted to be an astronaut.. And no one's, no one's dream job was to be this project exec at this company. But it made me get through the paper shift. And so, you know, I was lucky because in that job, they do $4 or $5 billion a year and the CRO, the CTO, and the CEO were allowed to hire one person, a young person to come in and be built up into a management role. And that was the job that I got. So I picked it almost out of necessity of wanting to be around young people. My boss went from being 60 to 29. And rather than making, you know, $20 million a a year, we were making hundreds of million a year. So it was a very exciting time.

But while you were working there, something happened, which totally changed your perspective on life, wasn't it?

Yeah, absolutely. So I mean, working there was so cool, because I worked up to have a team of 30. And whilst it is media, I was on the e-commerce and affiliate side. So we had software as a service that we are producing. And at one point, we're doing over £300,000 a day profit, 23, 24, 25. It's an incredible sort of meetings to be part of. I had no business being there, but of course, I was learning so much and becoming in demand. And I knew that because we were being headhunted to go and work for other companies. My boss and I were the only two product managers in the company of 4,000 or 5,000 people. So we became sought after. We became sought after because of what we were doing as a company. But in 2022, I was working from home as most of us were. We'd just renovated our second house. My partner is a award-winning interior designer. So we'd change houses as much as possible to make them a beautiful place for us to live. And we were driving over to her father-in-law's house, actually. I was going to sign to become a trustee of a charity that he was starting. And she drove, we were on this country road, and a car came around the corner and hit us. Head on, we flipped upside down and we were, we were left in a ditch, you know, smoke, completely dark cuz we were at the bottom of the ditch. All you could hear was the ringing, the screaming, and I turned across and there was blood and it was a horrible, horrible thing for us to, to have to go through. I think we were 27 at the time, 26, 27. We pulled her out of the car and there was a doctor in the car behind, luckily. It's all getting sorted now because that guy who was driving the other car was on his phone and, and just wasn't looking. But in the time after, the time after that, uh, that accident, we went back to our house and it had been left exactly how we'd left it, of course, because we were driving across to go and do this, this sign this paperwork and we'll be back in 20 minutes. I'd even phoned my boss to say, just going to go for a quick lunch break, back in 20. So we'd left the windows open, the back door was open. We had a cup of tea that was still steaming. Our laptops were open for work and our 2-year-old Labrador at the time was just sat there waiting for us. We were in a village, it was super safe. But you, in that moment, you realize what could have happened. And the deep down, the, the real pain was from the mental side, right? Like, we had 2 weeks off work, and in that time, we sort of reevaluated our lives. We traveled a lot at the start of university, things like Interrail and some of Southeast Asia, living on 50p a day to try and just, again, be different. At that time, we were obsessed with being different, living out of the ordinary. And so in those 2 weeks off work, we decided we were going to go back to our roots, do something different. So we sold our house, we quit our jobs. And literally 2 months later, we were in Dubai and starting a business, taking a massive risk. You know, as I was saying, that we like is Spanish, todo o nada, which is just all or nothing. Let's just go for it. Because, you know, you've got a chance. And I think it's interesting because my parents, I don't think they ever took those kinds of risks. You know, they were very much like follow the conveyor belt of life. And so it's odd that I would have that, but maybe because you live up in a, you grow up in an environment where there's such little risk, you feel like perhaps you should take some risk yourself. And so yeah, we started, we started a business here and we had no audience, no money, nothing to help us. We just went all into it. And here we are nearly 3 years later.

Well, let's dial it back a little bit. Why Dubai? When you moved there, there wasn't the whole discussion that we're having now about taxes, citizenship, etc. Dubai wasn't as much on the agenda as it is now in 2025. We're talking in April, but for the second half of 2024 and 2025, pretty much since the change of government here in the UK, the discussion has shifted. So I'm wondering, what was your view and your choice back then? You said 3 years ago now.

Yeah. So for us, you're right. I mean, it was a frontier city back then. It probably still is now, but 10,000 Brits are moving here a year. You know, the traffic's getting much worse. The frontier status, I think, is moving, but it is still a great place to come. 3 years ago, it was not the same. You know, it closed down completely for Ramadan for a month. Now it stays open. There's very— there's various different rules. For us, it was very much around what don't we have in the UK. And it was really getting out of our environment. Honestly, I don't think we could have done what we did with the mindset that we have now. And the confidence that we have now in a small village in the southwest of the UK, we need to be around people that were striving. No, we'd just been to Dubai to visit my partner's brother about 8 months before. And we'd seen the opportunities, the opportunities it had given him. We also thought about other countries. So we thought, very deeply about Copenhagen because my partner's family, half of them are Danish. We thought about places like Cyprus.

It's cold there. Lovely city, but a bit colder.

Yeah. So cold, dark, 70% tax, you know, even 3 years ago, there's still things that we were thinking about. We really wanted to go somewhere that we felt was far enough away from home to give us a real kick, really different. And so where can you go that's a 5 or 6-hour flight, not ridiculously expensive and also fairly westernized. Dubai was top of the list for us.

And you also had the advantage of visiting before. So what was it like then when you landed in Dubai with no network, no product, no pitch? What was day one like? How did you find your footing?

I had a white and black shirt, or maybe it's navy. And if you go back to any of our content, I'm always wearing that shirt. I would go networking to breakfasts, breakfasts in the morning at 6 AM. I'd go networking, networking till midday. I'd come back, I'd network all evening. Sometimes I'd sleep in the shirt and go back out again in the morning because it was a 5 AM breakfast club where I could pitch myself. So we did as much as possible. We started posting online. We started just meeting as many people as possible, adding value. We also started our podcast in probably month 2 or month 3 of being here. But for us, it was, it was about reading the right books, getting the right mindset, and just being seen, trying to get as much information from the market as we could, because we knew we had skills. We are highly paid in the UK. So we knew we had skills, it was just making sure that we could fit the market and also sell internationally. We didn't want to be restricted to one place. And so, like I say, we started building our personal brands really, but very specifically in two places. On LinkedIn and on podcasts, because so many people had told us, if you try and do everything, you'll achieve nothing. And so we thought, you know, there's Twitter, there's Instagram, there's YouTube, let's just go for the two that are in the B2B space. And so that's what we did. And we got some traction on LinkedIn, and we got some traction on the podcast that went to number one in 9 countries on the day of release. I was invited onto TV, we were invited onto radio, I got a column in international press. It happened really, really quickly for us, probably in the space of 6 months where we were able to say, okay, people know us now. Doesn't necessarily translate into money. So our first year here, we struggled to make, to make money because it is an expensive city compared to where we were in the Southwest. It's comparable to London, but we didn't live in London. So it was expensive for us. You can just see your net worth just dropping and dropping and dropping. But over that time, of course, you've built up enough personal brand and enough trust to say, Okay, this is where, this is where we can add value. This is what the market clearly wants. And from there, we sort of, we really focused on our offer. We knew we had the traffic, we had the interest and demand, but the offer wasn't there. But once, once it was, it became much easier for us. It became a downhill struggle rather than, rather than an uphill one.

So what was the idea? What was the product or the service that you thought the world needed that you, Freddie, could add value to and turn it into an international business while living in Dubai?

So it started with consulting. I think I still think that, you know, the coaching consulting business is fantastic. The margins are amazing. You can add real value through strategy and principle. I think tactics, if you think about thoughts in those three areas, principles, strategies, tactics, Tactics are the least important. I can Google tactics. AI can tell me tactics, but strategies and principles are much more valuable. And so we went into that consulting and coaching place of this is how we can help your business stand out by looking at LinkedIn and podcasting, specifically podcast guesting. I'm really clear that podcast guesting is really where we sit today and it aligns to where we started. So we looked at LinkedIn. If you're, if you're a busy, a busy entrepreneur, you want to build a brand back in 2023. LinkedIn was not a content creation place. It was a job board. And this is very, very recently, you just put jobs on there, or you maybe update that you've announced your new job. Exactly.

Announce that you're moving on or announce that you're looking for somebody to join your team.

Exactly. Or somewhere that you'd have almost no profile and you just spam cold DMs using Navigator. Whereas now it's an incredible place. They added 400 million users last year. You can leverage LinkedIn to get a lot of exposure. You can obviously make sales. Everyone's going to talk about making sales on LinkedIn. But for us, it was about exposure. And then the sales would come after that. Sales are not as hard as getting the exposure. And so that's one of our services. One of our services was, let's teach you. Let's teach you exactly how we've used LinkedIn to make X amount of money and to launch a top 1% podcast. Then people would say, okay, well, I make 7 or 8 figures this year. I don't want you to teach me. I want you to do it for me. Okay, that's another option. So we've got a full done-for-you service. And a coaching program. And so we just did exactly the same thing, buckled down and went, okay, this is what we're going to do. And so like I say, 2.5, 3 years later, it's the same principle. We don't do as much of the done for you. It's very much a program now focused on creating the best podcast guests, the most in-demand podcast guests in the world.

Before you're gonna— I'm gonna ask you to dish a few secrets about that. And just for anybody listening or tuning in, That's not actually how, how we met and how you landed on this podcast. It's a slightly longer story through another guest of another guest. I wanted to ask you about the healthy part in the Healthy Entrepreneur Club, um, side of your business. And why is that important and how does it link to everything you do?

So the, the company is called the Healthy Entrepreneur. The newsletter is called The Healthy Hustle. The reason that we named the business The Healthy Entrepreneur is because people was— when we met everyone in that first year of business, everyone seemed so stressed. They were all doing in-person networking. They were really struggling to grow their businesses. And what they—

AM for networking. I can't believe it. Who goes out at that sort of time to be sociable with people?

You'd be surprised. And so what we were really interested in was how can we help people with our experiences and knowledge? How can we help people live a more fulfilling life? We'd started our business to find freedom. And these people were much older than us, you know, and they were— they had no freedom, much less freedom than we did, even in the early days. So I became obsessed with this, obsessed with this idea of we have to work hard in business. That's the hustle, whether you like it or not. Everyone, even the ones who talk about how easy it is, started by working 12, 15-hour days. But there must be a way to create the healthiest, most efficient type of hustle. At least that's what I believe. And so The Healthy Entrepreneur is on that mission to create the healthiest hustle. And so that's what we did. We were absolutely adamant that you don't need to go to in-person networking, you can do it all online, and then you can be invited to things, or you can get an invite to high-level things. And that's exactly what we do now. We're able to protect our time completely. Because we have a healthy hustle. We do what we want to do when we want to do it, and we can afford the things that we wanted to afford because we put into place a healthy hustle, if you will.

Well, a healthy hustle sounds ideal. So how do you build a life of healthy hustle? Hustle has been described as toxic culture. We've got the likes of, say, let's name check Alex Hormozi, who is all about the hustle and working hard. And the long hours. And even from my experience, you have to outwork everybody in order to stay ahead. Although people like Mike from one of the previous episodes of Millennial Masters, got his book down there, The Happy Business Revolution, he is all about a healthy hustle too. So how do you look at hustle to make it healthy and balanced in your experience, Rady?

So I'll also, I'll just, I just mentioned that Mike has done a great YouTube video in the last week comparing Alex Hormozi's life to Matt Gray's life. Both of them make a lot of money. One works 4 hours a day, one works 15. It's amazing, amazing video. I really enjoyed that.

I watched that too last night, actually.

It's brilliant, isn't it? It's some great editing. So what I would say is that it's not about balance. I don't think it's about balance. I think people, I believe, businesses is uber competitive. In Dubai, if you take your foot off the gas, someone will take your stuff immediately. Everyone is here for one reason. That reason is to get ahead. You know, it's like I said, it's a frontier city. We've got an advantage here. Although we're away from home, it's expensive, it's hot. There is an advantage because we're amongst people that are pushing and there are tax benefits, which means we can push our foot down harder than a lot of people. So it's not about balance to me, it's about working efficiently. It's about getting enough done and leveraged. So for example, like I said about podcasts, that's a great example. A podcast, our podcast is an expensive thing to run. We have 4 team members who work on it full time. We have to use a studio, we have to do all the marketing around a podcast, but it gives us a return. Podcast guesting is free. The audience is leveraged harder when you are a podcast guest. That is a great example of building a healthy hustle. Now, when I started my business, no one would have me on their podcast. Why would they? I've got very, very little value to give. And part of the framework of most podcasts is where you've got to have some sort of audience, whether it's 1,000 or 2,000 people or 100,000. There has to be some benefit to the host because we are mutually doing something on a podcast. Otherwise, who's listening? And so for me, it was— that's where the leverage started to come in. You know, if you look at LinkedIn, for example, I completely— I got back something like 25 hours of my time per week because I don't have to network in person now, just do it online. And then I can get invited to things, I can turn things down, I can accept things. That for me is the business side of health. And then you've got the systems and things that Mike talks about. We're talking specifically about the media exposure, PR, marketing side. For me, then I would completely buy into what Mike says, the Better Happy Business stuff where he talks about being fit. Fitness is a massive part of our lives, eating healthily, being in the sun as much as you can, easier here than it is in some parts of the world, but it's something that's important. Of course, at least 25 SPF. So for me, that's a healthy hustle. It's striving to work towards a shared mission, whether it's you and a co-founder or not. And what is that mission? We did some work today on, you know, aligning everything. If you've got a business offer, if you've got a podcast, media, Instagram, whatever it is, does it all align? Would someone buy your offer based on the media that you've put out? I think that's where a lot of people seem to go wrong, is they, they put out media doesn't quite make sense to what they're trying to actually sell. And so for me, it's like I say, aligning, positioning, and then pushing towards whatever it is that you're trying to achieve, whether it's freedom, success, performance, lifestyle, whatever it might be.

So for anybody watching or listening to us right now, we would be preaching to the converted. We know they tune in into podcast, video, or audio, or depending on the mood. But let's try to break down what is the link for podcasting to personal branding and business success. I think, from my view, that's where you come in. So I'd like us to try and spell it out.

Okay, so if we look at personal branding, why do you need a personal brand? Need a personal brand for a very basic start, because everyone's building one. There's a great line from the, from The Incredibles film, which is, if, if everyone was super, no one would be. And that's a risk that entrepreneurs are running in the next 3 years. If you haven't built a personal brand, it's too late for a start, it'll be really, really hard to get some traction. And then if everyone's got one and you don't, you're at a massive disadvantage. If everyone's got one and you've got one, okay, at least you're still on the same playing field. And you can then you can leverage it. So that's one reason you build a personal brand. In reality, what does that mean? Well, it reduces your CAC, your cost to acquire customers. One of the biggest things that we see is that if you're running $10,000, $15,000, $20,000 worth of ads a month, one more, If you can build a personal brand, that can reduce by up to half, if not, if not more. And when you're selling a business, if you're near selling a business, that will increase the sale value quite incredibly. And if you're not going to sell it, it still increases your margin, which is perfect. Also increases your LTV. So I mentioned before we started that I'm sort of obsessed with trust at the moment, because no one trusts anyone. Trust is at an all-time low. I don't even watch a lot of short-form content anymore because I don't trust someone to not try and hijack my dopamine when I'm going about my day. So longer form content is really important in the sort of hemisphere of personal branding. And again, you may have seen that LinkedIn for the last 6 months has been pushing the video format massively. They've now removed the video format, there's no video feed anymore, the TikTok feed. It's because it was bringing in the wrong kind of people. They already added, like I said, 400 million people last year to the platform. They then change what it's about. People don't like it. So usership goes down. So you can read into all of these things and go, okay, well, what does the market want? The market wants long-form, trustable content, which is why YouTube is doing so well, podcasts are doing so well, and written LinkedIn is doing so well. I mean, if you can get an answer from AI in 1 minute or in 10 seconds, what's the opposite of that? Well, it's an hour-long podcast. It's a 2-hour-long tutorial video on YouTube. And so that's, that's why you do personal branding. The link to podcasting, I kind of alluded to it there, is that there is no higher authority, long-form personal branding content than podcasts. And people will try and fake it, right? They'll try and set up a camera and pretend they're on a podcast. But it doesn't work because the leverage opportunity is that you're going onto a podcast and speaking to someone who is already trusted by a loyal audience. That's where the leverage is. Putting a video on Instagram or LinkedIn or wherever it might be of you pretending to be on a podcast doesn't work. And I see a lot of services doing that now. And it's like, it's just, that's not the point. You've completely missed the point. So number one is that it's super high authority, and you're leveraging an audience. But the second part of podcasting is, as a guest, you will go very, very wrong if your positioning is not right. So if someone comes onto a podcast and they're a fitness trainer, but they only talk about how hard their life was, or what they've, you know, that kind of thing, there's no real positioning. No one will ever remember you. You'll have no soundbites, you've got no frameworks. What's the point? And so positioning on a podcast then helps you to create a sort of funnel that everything else can sit into. So all your Instagram videos, you don't need to just repurpose content from podcasts. Exactly. You can take things that you've said and use it as a content machine. I think a lot of people, especially in the age of AI, aren't thinking enough. They're not in their creative zone enough. And so that's where their content becomes terrible. If you're on a podcast, you're leveraging an audience, you're thinking creatively, you're able to, to hone in on what people actually want. And of course, you're networking. That's the link between podcasting and personal branding. It's the opportunity, probably 2 years in the future, 18 months to 2 years in the future, when everyone's still looking at LinkedIn. Podcasting is the one that will be here for the next 10 or 15 years. And all you've got to do to— if you don't believe me, is look at who's investing in podcasts. Look at how much Spotify are giving to Joe Rogan. Look at the £100 million deal that Stephen Bartlett has turned down to build his own podcast company. These are the kinds of things we should be looking at when we're looking at future trends for personal branding.

I read that, but just, just to put my counter hat on there, he only did that because he had other business dealings, which were bringing him money. I do not believe that he would have not taken that deal, should he not have had other sources of revenue. So I'll just put that one out there so that it doesn't look just as You know, I like a lot what he does, but I also, my journalistic brain likes to keep critical and a bit of perspective. So I'm going to come back to personal branding and you alluded that it's a bit, it can be a bit too late, but not too late because things are still growing and evolving, especially in the age of AI in the next couple of years. So if there's an entrepreneur or a business person or a CEO tuning into this and they have a social media profile, but they haven't really used it like we spoke, where do you start with personal branding online?

So there's two things. One, I would say is to pick what you want to be known for. That's the first one. And the second one would be to choose a platform. If you go onto my Instagram, I don't use it. I have less than 1,000 followers. I don't use it. We're not talking about being an influencer here. That's another thing to be really aware of. We're talking about creating content to become an authority. So you pick what you want to be known for, otherwise known as positioning. Like I mentioned earlier, you want to be positioned as someone who can become an expert, quote unquote, because I hate that word, because you can't become an expert, you can become an authority in a specific niche. To go onto a podcast, or any other media, I will just keep using podcasts as an example. But in most media, you need to solve one specific problem for the host, or ideally the audience. And so if you want to become a business guru, or an M&A guru, or another fitness guy, it's not going to work. We don't— unless you're going to become the best in the world somehow, and put millions of dollars into the promo, it's not going to happen. So you need to pick something that you want to become known for. Probably something that meets your values, links to your story, and has a great bond to whatever you sell. So that's—

Is that because organic reach on what we would now call traditional social media is pretty much dead?

I don't think it's dead. I think it's changed.

I think you're not going to get— you're not going to get native viral or organic reach on Instagram or Facebook or even X. Anymore. Maybe LinkedIn is the only place where you can do that, which is also why you're probably recommending that's a great place to start. But from my experience, organic reach has been dead on any Meta-owned social platform for at least 5 years.

I don't think it is dead. I think the market is just demanding something very different and we're not keeping up. I think that's, you know, I've got friends who have built 50,000, 60,000 followers in 8 months just by changing all the time and learning what it is. I completely agree, it's a lot harder than it was. And a lot of people are buying followers. But I think it's, I think it's changing. It's a good point about LinkedIn as well. Because again, the more people that join that platform, the more features that they add to it to make more money, the harder it will become. You know, as soon as they start talking about ads, ads are very expensive on LinkedIn. Once LinkedIn start really pushing them, which they will, which is what Meta did, organic content will reduce, it will become harder, which again, shows that there's an opportunity there, which is why I'm looking at the bigger picture. So if you learn the skills of personal branding, you put them into the most difficult place to learn them into to utilize them, which is probably podcast guesting. All that content can go into whichever social media platform is working at the time. I mean, that Threads pops up again, or YouTube Shorts becomes the thing. Learn the fundamentals, get the content from speaking to leverage audiences, and then put them wherever you want to put them, put those content wherever you want to put them.

So in a way, podcast guesting is traditional skill, I would say, because you have to handle yourself in an interview. It's a way, a traditional media skill. Obviously, podcasting is very different. It's more conversational. There's no gotcha type of stuff as much, but there's still plenty of countering going on and some discussion and curiosity where you have to justify some of your views. So I'm wondering, you coming from a new media perspective, what sort of similarities do you see in podcasting with what was in a way traditional media, but also do you recommend people stick to audio-only podcasts or is video the next big thing now and what's the synergy between them?

I like that. I like that. I— it's brilliant that the— that marketing is coming back full circle, because it's always going to, you know, in 100 years' time, it could be that we're talking about podcasting again, you know, it's been not popular for 50 years, and then it becomes popular again, because like you say, it's human to human contact that we all really want. In the same way that I was speaking to some entrepreneurs this week, who are doing millions, and they think that in-person face-to-face sales is going to come back in a big way, because AI and pushy closers have become so dominant in the market. I think the similarities are that, you know, it's owned media. Podcast is owned media. You know, this is your podcast. And therefore the narrative, although we had a pre-chat, you know, brilliantly, it's still your chat, the edit is going to be down to you, the direction of the conversation, unless I choose to direct it myself. It's going to be down to you. And that is where the power becomes. People become less trustworthy of owned media, normal media channels, mainstream media. And so—

Why do you think that is? Is it because of the other stuff, the politics and the wider context, or is there more of a tech shift?

I think, well, there's definitely a tech shift, but I think it comes down to the availability of knowledge. So we all, we can all see, we can all find out who owns these big companies now, the politics behind them, you know, that BlackRock have got their hands in here or hands in there. You look at, you know, why did, uh, why did some of Joe Rogan's podcasts get put behind a, a shadow wall last year? You find out because, you know, Google is owned by Alphabet. Alphabet is part owned by this guy who then funded the Harris campaign, you start to see all this coming together and it's same in the UK. And so people are starting to understand that, especially in the younger generations. And we're just so untrustworthy, that word trust again, so untrustworthy of media and those, those old school journalists who we don't believe have the power that perhaps they used to. The media shift is also a massive one because people don't watch TV as much anymore. That's just sort of a fact. The younger generations are watching Netflix. And so, you know, it was in the news in the UK recently that a journalist was speaking to one of the ministers who hadn't seen the program Adolescence, and the journalist wanted to speak about some of the big, the deeper issues that program spoke about. And she quite rightly said, I don't need to see it. These are issues that we know are predominant in the UK and prevalent in the UK. They're just being brought up now because the younger generation who have got access to modern media and could spread the word like wildfire have been been, you know, shown this, this issue and want to make it something. So you can see the power of the young generation and that tech shift. Yeah, you're completely right.

But overall, the argument was that, say, traditional media was doing a range of shenanigans, but at the same time, still having quite an important role in journalism and informing society. And I come from a background in that industry, so I can attest to it. Even, even the most reviled news titles, whether we're talking about The Sun or Daily Mail, they are also the most popular ones in the world. And they still break a lot of important news. But with the shift to tech platforms, I think there's a strong argument to be made that the tech platforms do not add anything to society. Would you, besides pretending that they are making a free and open expression, which we know in the words of the owners of these social media platforms, including Mark Zuckerberg, that they've been actively censoring content. And even on say Threads, there's still no political content being allowed by the algorithm. They're not the places of free speech or free discussion, even X with Elon Musk at the helm is still suppressing certain types of content. So I think there's a strong argument to be made that these tech titans and these tech platforms are not really adding much to society besides apparently democratizing access to content, which is why I think it's important what you were saying about podcasts because that's an owned medium and it's in a way independent of these platforms. Podcasts still rely traditionally on RSS, even though you have certain distributors doing it. So I'm wondering what's your view on it from this perspective?

Yeah, listen, I think, I think you've always got to be super aware of your, of where you're getting information from. I think you're completely right. The social media platforms have a massive danger to them because it's owned media and they're, sorry, non-owned media, and therefore they can say what they want and there's very little sense checking. The other danger there you have is that people are watching the 6 o'clock news every day and they're believing one thing. I'm not saying one's right or one's wrong. To go on—

one's regulated, one's not.

True. And to add to your point there, to add to your argument, I mean, look at what's happened to Diarra CEO recently, right? They— there was a very, very real question of at what point, when you've got 50 million downloads a month, at what point should someone be sense checking this? And they were in a lot of trouble for their sponsorships, but also for some of the things that the guests had said because they had back-to-back guests on the same topic saying almost exactly the opposite. So 50 million people in the UK, or sorry, globally, I'm sure, who do they believe? You're actually not adding anything there. So there's a very real value, a very real issue. And this is another conversation I had this week, which was, at what point do you say we actually now have a real obligation to sense check what this person's going to say? Because like I said earlier, you're coming onto a podcast or any media, I will move this across to any media, you're going to say something that's probably going to benefit you. That's probably, that's, that's, that's fundamentally why you're there to get exposure, PR, whatever.

Or saying it for the algorithm.

Or to be clipped up or sound, soundbitten. There is a very real conversation, and I don't know the answer to this, that someone at some point has to become responsible for fact-checking a lot of what is said. Interestingly, I listen to a lot of podcasts. As you can imagine, and ones that are produced by, I want to say Whisper. They're in the UK. They might be BBC related, but I'm not sure. They always have a fact checker in the room and you can hear them typing away. They'll fact check and then they'll say, oh, I've just been told what I just said was not quite right. I wonder at what point does that have to become more mainstream? And of course, a lot of these smaller media outlets, it's not going to happen. And on a lot of social media platforms, it becomes very difficult because it's done by AI, but there will become a time, and not in the distant future, where this has to become more regulated.

And when, when Stephen Bartlett landed into hot water because of BBC writing that analysis on some of the claims his guests made, which he thoroughly defended, I wrote a piece and the point that I made there is that that's the difference between journalism and content. Journalism still has an element of responsibility to it and/or balance and/or fact-checking, while content doesn't need that. That's why, you know, traditional publishers make the argument that what goes on social networks should be subject to the same regulations as journalistic content. If you are a journalist or a publication, you typically get to be regulated or fall under the purview of a certain regulator. While the social networks are totally outside of this and they don't have the same coverage, but yet they have taken over the attention. But not necessarily to dwell on this because we understand it's a complex system and you made it clear it's about trust and the people you trust. Saying that, possibly the wildest claims being made in the podcasting space are being made on The Joe Rogan Experience, right? And yet He is arguably the most popular podcaster in the world.

By far.

So what does that tell us about what people search for in podcasts?

I think the Joe Rogan, uh, yeah, it's wild, isn't it? I think it's a $250 million deal for a couple of years. Unbelievable. I think he's number one by quite a long way in terms of monthly downloads. People look for someone that they know, like, and trust, and they relate to. You know, his, his audience is predominantly in the US and they just want, they want someone who's really, really real. There's a lot of people that don't like Stephen Bartlett because they feel like he takes a slightly more journalistic approach. He's asking sometimes very fair questions, sometimes more targeted questions. He's trying to learn about his own thing. He's trying to almost like a, I think he literally says he's trying to learn for himself. Rogan's not, he's the opposite. He's like, these are my opinions. Let me bring on an astrophysicist and let me question him. On something completely random, like why the pyramids have now suddenly got columns underneath them. He's sort of— he's almost like a knee-jerk guy. He's making people go, oh, why have you asked that? I don't know if you listened to the one with Trump, or, you know, some of the guys he has on, it's just completely out of the blue. With Elon, halfway through, they go and shoot his car with an arrow. You know, I think he knows exactly who his audience is. He, he, he has a fact-checker in the room and they, they obviously try to keep it as, as, uh, as PC as possible. He's been in the, in the public eye for a long time, right? So he knows, he knows how to play the game. He's also not associated with mainstream media like Steven is, you know, Steven's part of the BBC sort of talent pool now, isn't he, with Maestro and, and Dragon's Den and whatnot. So it is a phenomenon, I think, Rogan. Another example though would be Chris Williamson. Because he can say he's probably the second biggest fucker.

He actually went beyond in a way. He's in between Bartlett and Rogan, kind of like a bit on the woo-woo side, on a bit on the kind of like herbal tablets powder side. Also a bit business, bit Rogan. I think, I feel like he's positioned himself somewhere in between them.

I agree. I was bringing him up because I think he's probably the one that I would want to be fact-checked the most because Rogan, you kind of know, take this with a pinch of salt. He's got some incredible minds on there, but they're gonna talk about rogue things probably. But you can learn some cool stuff on there. Bartlett, I think, is now very much fact-checked. There's a big team behind it. I'm sure it goes probably through the BBC before they are released. Maybe not, but I'm sure that's the way. No, really?

I'm sure.

Yeah. Absolutely no way.

It's an independent company. It would have BBC branding on it. There's no way that that would happen. What's on Dragon's Den, which is for anybody listening from America, that's Shark Tank, the UK version. It's one thing, but his production company is totally independent, which is why it's not subject to, in a way, these fact-checks/rigorous checks. However, what I have noticed is in his most recent episodes, when and if a guest makes certain claims, you do get an info screen or an info box on screen, which is typically backing up or sourcing where that claim has come from. Not necessarily countering it.

So there you go. Kind of makes a similar point that he at least has BBC-esque guidelines that he now knows he sticks to because that's where he knows his brand is going. He's very much B2C rather than B2B like he was when he started. Whereas Chris Williamson's more, I'd label him as a creator. It's like a pure creator. Doesn't really have a business off the back of his podcast. He's got, he's got the drink, but it's more sponsorship and ad rev that he's looking for. And so in that regard, there's no reason to fact-check, you know, there's no reason for him to not want to just get the most views possible. I guess Rogan has also got the Spotify deal, hasn't he? So I'm imagining there's some sort of set of vague guidelines there in the same way that Arla has. Doesn't happen with, with Chris Williamson. So I wonder if that then becomes the, the most dangerous quote unquote sort of media where he's getting millions of views, billions of downloads, but it's all just for personal gain rather than what the other two might be considered to be a joint partnership with other brands, companies, organizations.

I think we could stick to this discussion for a long time, Freddie, and I've got lots of views on it too, but I just want to slightly move us on.

Tell us.

And sticking to a practical element of our discussion for the people tuning in, which is So if you would want to start rebuilding or building up your personal brand digitally through podcasts, we know trust is important. So what are the first 2, 3 steps that people should take? What they should considerate?

So firstly, I would say, just like I said earlier, define what you want to be known for. From there, you want to think about how you're going to speak. So if I was talking about starting as a sort of a podcast guest, I guess, I would really start to think about the frameworks and the soundbites. What can I say? What can I drip in there? Daniel Ionescu is an incredible person at doing this. If you look at him on Diary of a CEO, on our podcast, on any of the podcasts he's been on, when you ask him a question, he doesn't answer it immediately. He answers with a hook or a soundbite or a line. I think something that I asked him was, how is AI going to affect our business in the next 3 years? And he took a pause. And he said, we will have to decide if we will consume or create. Pause. And then he answered the question. But that's the hook that you use in all your teasers. That's the hook that you then go home and tell your partner, or you tell your business colleague or whatever. Because it makes you think and go, whoa, it's a different way of thinking. It's a soundbite. It's a framework. You know, in the same way that if want to become a great podcast guest, we use a 6P framework. You want to start with your positioning. You want to look at your profile. How does someone see you? You could be the best podcast guest in the world. If your profile, whatever that means, any of the social medias you've chosen, if it's not there, if there's no thought leadership, there's no branding, no interest, what was the point? It's going to be really, really difficult. And then you look at posting. So you have to reuse content. So as soon as you're getting content, you can make your own, you can make and get some from friends, you can get some from your testimonials, whatever it is, get some from podcasts, move all the way through. So you've got, you've got your podcast itself, you've got performance, profit, all of these Ps come together to make a really good guest. And so the second thing I can say is, is to make sure that you've got your sort of your tactics, and then it's getting on some podcasts. There's 4 million podcasts, there's about 2 million that are posting, about 400,000 that are worth going on. And so I'd start to look at which podcasts are in the top 10%. So top 10% means they're probably going to get, I don't know, 1,000 views per episode. That's more than enough people. It doesn't sound like much compared to—

not just YouTube, we're talking about across platforms here. Cross-platform.

Yeah, YouTube is a massive opportunity. The biggest one for us is Spotify and Apple. Spotify and Apple have their own algorithms, and they are brilliant. Then you can start to use YouTube, then you can start to use whatever else. But remember, just to get on them, get practicing. A lot of people come to us and go, I want to get on Diary of a CEO, I'll give you whatever amount you need. It's not how it works. You need to work all the way up, you need to become, you need to become the best. And like business, it takes time, consistency, resilience, and a lot of learning. But if you stick to it, the reward, like you said earlier, you know, like it used to be back in the day, the reward comes from understanding media, but also understanding speaking, understanding pitching, understanding tone. There's so many things that come to it. So I would say, that's what I would start with, start with the basics, start ramping up very slowly, trialing, testing, reusing, getting on slightly bigger podcasts and working your way up.

You also mentioned, Freddie, AI, which has pretty much come in the game since you started doing The Healthy Entrepreneur, kind of like at the same time. So you've seen it developing, you've seen it improving. I've seen it improving. It's certainly so much better now than it used to be even late last year, let alone a couple of years ago. But I'm wondering in this game, How can entrepreneurs and leaders and people building up their profile can leverage AI without sounding robotic or generic? Because there's, and I'm sure you'll agree with me on this one, but please say so otherwise, you can go to ChatGPT, for example, and say, give me a LinkedIn post about this, or you can go to GPT and say, I want to write an engaging LinkedIn post about this, and I want to say this, and my main point is this, and I believe this is important. So there are two key differences there in how to leverage AI. And I was hoping to get your take on it.

It's really important to take your thoughts and turn them into something for yourself, then you can build up a bank. And of course, AI can write as much as you want. And you can teach it how to write great LinkedIn posts in your voice and your tone. You can also teach it to help you get onto more podcasts and do outreach. You can teach it to repurpose all of your content, create carousels and talking heads. You don't even need— I don't need to sit here anymore. I could have had an AI sit here with my face, move my hands, move my mouth, do it all for me with a pre-programmed set of rules that I've given it. That's how incredible it is.

It's getting better. It's not— you can still tell at the moment when that's happening. And If you have a bit of an accent like myself, it will not nail it. So it's still got a bit of work to do, but it's certainly getting better and improving every, every—

I agree. It's the eyes, isn't it? It's the eyes. You can always tell.

Yeah. And I think it just doesn't get the lips and the eye movement regardless of how much content you give it. Even just for audio as well. Something 30 seconds, it would work great. But if you give it like, you know, a 5-minute or 10-minute narration, it will not nail it. I'm sure it will only, only get better from—

Absolutely. Absolutely.

So Freddie, moving on then, you start building your profile online. How do you start then as a business owner and entrepreneur? How do you start then monetizing it? How do you turn that reach attention and podcast guesting into leads and then into deals which feed your business?

So it's the same way that you would build out any sort of funnel, right? You want to look at top, middle, and bottom. So you want to build awareness, then you want to look at sort of a middle funnel, which is okay, bringing people towards you who already know and like you, but don't trust you. And the bottom of funnel is people that know, like, and trust you. So it's a series of different ways of writing or recording videos or putting out newsletters or podcasts. And so for us, it was about doing exactly that, building out trust and slowly bringing people towards our, our ecosystem, I guess. And so we did that through newsletters. I was always a big fan of newsletters. We did a lot of newsletters at Future. And so you take someone from a platform like LinkedIn, which is completely at the mercy of whoever owns it or running the servers, and you take them—

renting space on somebody else's yard.

Exactly. Take them into your own hemisphere, which is a newsletter, or a podcast again drives people into your newsletter. You can then pitch them offers, right? And this all comes down to offers. Entrepreneurs that do well have incredible offers. You can have a terrible landing page. If you've got a really good offer, you'll still make sales, you know, and, you know, one of the biggest things that we talk to our clients about is an offer doc. How simple can you make your offer? How coherent can you make it to solve their problem? Because in the same way as going on a podcast without solving a single issue, If you put an offer in front of someone that doesn't solve a single issue, it's just not clear enough. And in this world where, like, we always talk about people don't trust each other. If you promise too much, they don't trust. If you promise not enough, they don't trust. So it's about making it clear, solving an issue, you know, and the way you do that is by talking to the market. When we first started, like I said, I was talking to hundreds of people a week. And so we just tested it in the market and not in my mind. You know, it's very easy to sit there and go, I'm going to build a landing page or do some videos based on this. I hadn't asked anyone. So if I go and ask, test, see what works, iterate, add things, delete things, as Elon Musk would say, that's how we did it, you know, making the content work, and then putting an offer in front of people's faces that clearly solves an issue that we had solved for ourselves, and that they can then have solved for them.

So Freddie, going back to your personal journey in entrepreneurship, obviously, you've done a lot of hustle. You wanted to do some healthy hustle and you're in the full scope of that now. But I'm wondering now, when you reflect on moving to Dubai and restarting or reinventing your life there, what would you say are the main differences, both positive and negative, between, between the UK and the UAE, specifically Dubai?

Yeah, it's interesting. I'll start with the negatives because I think it's too easy to go for the positives. The negatives are we are not material people. I'm not interested in brands or sports cars or flash things. And so a lot of people here are interested in that, and that's what they spend their money on. So finding your people here was harder than I thought. You know, finding the groups that want to go to the desert and go for an adventure and have a bonfire and, you know, take the dogs out or the ones who want to go surfing. That was harder than if you wanted to go find people that wanted just to go and buy some Rolexes. That was quite easy to find. So that's, that's, that was unusual. The other thing that was hard is that when you first get here, people are, whether it's true or not, they're doing very well. You know, it seems like that on the front end. So you feel very inadequate, especially when we had literally nothing. We didn't know anyone, we didn't have anything of any value. So you immediately go, okay, I'm actually light years behind here. And thirdly, of course, is there's some of the difficulties just in cultural differences, right? So, you know, geographically, the heat in the summer is massive. We have some of the worst pollution in the world during certain sandstorm times of year, which makes life hard. And there's obviously things you have to overcome in terms of, like I mentioned, cultural differences, which are just a shock when you start. They're not actually difficult compared to the UK. Of course, the UK is just an incredible place for us. We absolutely love the Southwest. We always thought we'd live in London. We absolutely love the character, the culture, the history. We don't have as much history here again, you know, so it's a different history. It's not an old history. It's very much about innovation and looking forward to the future. So just a different place. The positives though, for us, obviously at this stage in our life, we've just, I've just turned 30 last week. So we've been here 3 years. And late in our late 20s, which I think is just a perfect time for us. It is pushing us forward. It's giving us opportunities that we would never have had in the southwest of the UK, meeting incredible people all the time. It's become very normal for me to go out for dinner with 7, 8, and 9-figure entrepreneurs, which in the UK, I wouldn't— I don't think I've been able to access those kinds of people. And also living and working around just so many cultures, so many different nationalities has made our business better. Because we work with a lot of people in the US, you know, a lot from Europe. In the UK, my team at Future was all based in the US. But other than that, they were all very much from around Bath, really, although we had offices around the world. That was my team. And so I absolutely love living in different places and eating different food and being around different things in the same way that we did when we traveled when we were younger, because you just learn so much and you become such a diverse person, I think, and such a resilient person. So It's, uh, it is very much a melting pot. It's very much a wild west of, you know, fight or flight. But if you can make it through the first, uh, the first couple of years, it's a, it's a cool place to be. It's not somewhere we'll stay forever, but it is somewhere that has been very beneficial for the last 3 years for us.

I was about to ask that. Do you see it as your forever home?

No, no, it won't be our forever home. It will probably be another couple of years, maybe a bit longer. And then we'll probably look at I would like to go somewhere in Europe, maybe, maybe Europe, maybe the US depending on how that looks in the next 5 years. I know that podcasting, the mecca for podcasting is Austin, Texas. So yeah, we'll see, we'll see how that goes. You know, the UK will always be home. But right now, I think, in my opinion, the state that it's in is not somewhere that I want to take my business, let alone my family.

You said that there was a lot of adapting, especially in the first couple of years. In order to both build, grow, scale your business, as well as adapt your personal life. So something that I ask my Millennial Masters guests is, what were the biggest sacrifices you had to do to be where you are today, Freddie?

That's a great question. The biggest sacrifice. Well, One of the easy ones for us is friends and family. Because we moved 4,000 miles away, you know, people didn't— we didn't see anyone for the first year. People really struggled to visit. It's not— it's not a cheap trip for people to make. So we really removed ourselves from everyone. The second one really, really resonates with our business now, because it's our health. We absolutely sacrificed our health in the first 8, 9, even 12 months, because we worked really, really hard.. And only when you start to see an ever so slight return and then put in systems that can benefit those returns, do you start to think, okay, I can be more healthy now. Which looking back is why I get so frustrated because I don't think that was necessarily true. I think we could have done it in a different way. I didn't need to work in that, you know, just absolute crazy way. I think we needed to work super hard, but you know, health became something that was on the back burner for us, which I think would work what would happen for anyone when you've gone from, you know, a six-figure job to just seeing your net worth just drop away in front of your eyes a long way from home. So those two things for sure. And then actually, ironically, freedom. Leave your job to find freedom, or we did. And in the first year to 18 months, the thing that you sacrifice most is your freedom. Because you don't want to spend the money. You don't have as much time because working on a business takes a lot more time than working in a job. You don't have the bank holidays, you don't have summer holidays, you haven't got sick days. So in the same way that I learned that when we got a puppy— when you get a— we got a dog because we wanted to do lots more walking. When you get a puppy, the vet tells you not to walk the dog for the first 6 months because they can't walk more than, I don't know, 20 minutes. And you're like, well, I wanted it to walk more. In the same way, I quit my job to become financially free and free with time, and that's the last thing that I had. So I don't like, like this narrative that I'm seeing being pushed in the media of everyone should just quit and become an entrepreneur because it's not for everyone, for sure. You know, I've got a brother who's 2 years younger than me, he's an architect in London. And I speak to him quite a lot about it, which is like, I don't think it is for you. I think you, he loves what he does. He's great at what he does. And I don't think it is for him that the tolerance for risk has to be high, and you have to be willing to sacrifice at least those 3 things that I just mentioned, which are all pretty high on most people's values.

For an indeterminate period of time as well.

Exactly.

It's not a rule that 9 to 12 months only.

Exactly. That's a great point. It's a great point. And yeah, I mean, I've got, I know people that have been in business for 10, 15 years, and it's still just a very, very hard thing to do.

That was certainly my experience in my previous endeavors. And still building up Millennial Masters is also a grind, but also a healthier hassle. And I'm applying a lot of the lessons I've learned from my previous experiences. And speaking about learnings and lessons, where I'd like to kind of like taper off our conversation, Freddie, is you mentioned you've done a lot of reading and a lot of discovering in business and resources. So I'm wondering what were some of the books and resources which made a mark on you and made you change your view on business and entrepreneurship that you would certainly recommend to others?

Yeah. So the first two are both by Daniel Ionescu. They were really the first business books that I read when I was, I think probably that was probably around the time that I was starting to think about other things, you know, 17, 18. So The Entrepreneur Revolution. That's for people who haven't started a business but would like to. And Key Person of Influence. That's more for business owners who haven't built a personal brand. They're brilliant. One—

You're not the first one to mention those. Just to add in for anybody listening, possibly 3 in 5 have already mentioned these books. And for the Millennial Masters Booksmart editions for the newsletter, if you search, I've broke down all these books and all the learnings from Daniel Priestley who is certainly one of the top influencers in terms of knowledge for millennial entrepreneurs.

Definitely. Has anyone said their own book? Yes. Okay. Well, I've not written one. I just wanted to know. I would also say—

Yeah.

And I, and I pop those in the show notes as well. And I like to collect them as well for, for myself, even though I do most of my reading digitally.

Brilliant. I'll have to, I'll get writing. The ones that I think are really powerful for me as well are The 4-Hour Workweek. That's a really, I think that's really important.

Tim Ferriss.

Yes, Tim Ferriss. Quite a basic one now, I feel like, to say, but it's still super relevant. Atomic Habits, these ones people will have definitely heard of. Cybernetics, just changes your way that you think around almost everything. And 48 Laws of Power.

That one came up in a podcast I was listening to last week. So yeah, yeah, that's on my list.

Yeah. And then the last one is the first book that I was told to read when I first got here, which will explain a lot of what happened when I did my networking. How to Win from Friends That Influence People, a good old classic.

Definitely did a breakdown of that one as well for the Millennial Masters Booksmart Edition. I love to see that there's some overlap, but there's a couple of new ones as well there, which I will add to my list and recommend to people.

Perfect.

It's great to hear your story so far, Freddie, with the Healthy Entrepreneur. And I'm looking forward to see what you're going to do next.

Perfect. Thank you so much for having me. It's a great, great conversation.

It's ready.

Cheers!

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