Breathe Easy: Transform Your Health by Prioritizing Air Quality

So I am here today with Mike Feldstein who is the founder of Jasper and an air quality expert. So his background was in wildlife restoration, air quality consulting and home remediation during enormous natural disasters. Mike started Jasper to innovate in air science and technology and his goal is to protect air quality and improve human health using the latest in air quality science. I am a huge fan of his work, his product, I use it myself and have used it for I think it's almost five months now. The way that it works, the aesthetics, the quality, the way that he runs his business, which you'll hear about towards the end of this and if you stay tuned in for the whole interview you will get the biggest darn discount and offer that Jasper has ever had. So I'm so excited to share this science and product with you. Let's dig in. Welcome Mike. I am so happy for you to be here today. Thank you so much for taking this interview and enlightening us on how important air quality is. So excited to dig in today.

Thanks for having me.

Yeah, so I love it. So I want to frame this as I almost feel like we put priority on reducing like the toxic burden and load backwards a lot of the time. So I think, you know, we focus on hey, we want to eat organic and hey, let's be careful what we put on our skin and the products that we use, shampoo and soap and everything. But I wanted to lay a little bit of foundational information and share with people. Number one, like as a clinician we learned, listen, like the fastest way to get pollutants into our bloodstream is through breathing. So our lungs are very, very efficient at absorbing things because we have to survive on oxygen, right? So we absorb that oxygen through our lungs and we transport it directly through our body. So essentially what that means is they can, our lungs can absorb 100% of toxins or if, especially if they're small enough pollutants and immediately integrate those into our physiology into our body. Whereas like skin, we only absorb 60 to 70% of things through our skin. Like our skin acts as like this protective barrier ingesting. We actually have a whole physiology based around trying to metabolize and detox all these compounds that are harmful for us. But our lungs I feel like are put on the back burner all the time in terms of people protecting themselves from getting exposure through air pollutants. I kind of wanted you to start like you have a fascinating story of how you ended up in this sector. I kind of want you to share.

It with People, I'm happy to do that. And just like on the prioritization thing, I actually heard a stat this week that 69% of all of the detox that happens in our body happens in the lungs. Wow. And that like the fastest way, when you're getting a surgery and anesthesia or whatever, like the fastest, always through breathing is always the fastest way to do stuff. And it's just kind of symbolic of the way I think people live our lives. You know, people are quicker to book a 10 or $15,000 retreat to try to go fix themselves in a week or two versus just making a teeny change that they could do every day or like constantly making a task list in a to do list. And people get addicted to checking off little meaningless boxes on their to do list and overwhelming themselves with a very stressful life when really, like, it could be a lot more simple than that. There could be a few more. My best diet ever was, no, sorry, not eating after dinner and going for a walk every day. And like, as long as I do that, I'm pretty good. And then of course, I can layer it up. But if I made my baseline, like, I wanted to work out four times immediately for two a days, and then that falls apart and I'm left with nothing. So if my foundation is just like no bread and no food after dinner, it's like, wow, that got me a long way.

Right? And it's like we eat, I don't know, three to four pounds of food a day. And I read a stat as I was prepping for this that we breathe 11,000 liters of air every day. Like, the comparison of where we're putting our energy to try and get healthy seems disproportionate. Like, just breathing clean air makes that much more of a difference than eating healthy food. It's fascinating because again, no one is emphasizing breathing clean air or not enough people are. It's like, low on the priority.

More about. We talk about our. We talk about our water. But literally, breath work is more popular than air right now. Meaning we're. We're thinking about. No one talks about eating and drinking compared to food and water. We're thinking about the stuff working to me, not how we consume it. And then with air, breath work and breathing gets all this attention. But like, I call clean air step zero in anyone's breath work journey. Otherwise you could be hopping and puffing and hyperventilating and doing all the tropic breathing and just pumping in mold and toxins and pollutants. Not a Good idea. And I'll, I'll share my origin story, but just to kind of round out that, that stat there. So, yeah, two to three pounds of food, two to three liters of water, 10 to 20,000 liters of air, three weeks, you can survive without food. Three days, you can survive without water. Three minutes, you can survive without air. Very common. A family is spending 2 to 3,000. $3,000 a month as a family. Food budget is fairly normal these days. Between your grocery bills, probably 500 a week, and then a couple of meals out here and there, your water budget, people don't realize, but they're spending could be five to $10,000 a year on water. When you add up your hydro bill from the city, that $7 Fiji at the airport, your, your Pellegrinos, your Perrier, your filtered water when you go for dinner, your, your pool water, your, your Olipops and your poppies and all your alternative waters flavored water. People's water budget is thousands. And then their air budget, the thing you consume most of, it's like $30 a year. I changed my furnace filter, so.

And then they never think about it.

Yeah. So the, the focus and energy and investment relative to consumption. So I'll double click on it after. But there's some really powerful studies showing that we, the average human breathes about a credit card worth of microplastics every week. So you have, everyone's worried about microplastics in your water, but because you breathe so much more air than water. The study that the BDC shine light on showed 98% of all studies collected of air and dust had microplastics. 100% of all homes tested had microplastics. And basically they showed when they got biopsies, almost everybody had a lot of microplastics in their lungs. Now, don't exactly know how harmful microplastics in the lungs are. We could assume it's not a great thing. And it's not about, like, be afraid. This is another thing to worry about. It's that fact that like, there's a lot of stuff you can do and poor air outside is not nearly as big of a problem as poor air inside. The average indoor air is five to ten times dirtier than the outdoor air. Which is why you like nature. It's why you like going for a walk, because even, even a walk is nice on a cloudy day, because you're literally going into an area where the air could be 10 times cleaner. And your body loves that. So we just give it like A label like it's stuffy inside or I like nature. But when you get in, what do you like about it? The way you feel? Well, if you close your eyes, you're not even seeing the nature. The only thing that's happening is you're breathing way fresher air outside.

And like, it. It's. The air's so much cleaner. It's so much more toxic inside. But we spend all day inside, like.

95% of the time.

Right. So again, I think this is such a valuable topic that needs to be talked about that I feel like is, you know, we have to catch up. We have to escort people into this way of thinking because again, we're. We're focusing on important things. But I think that there. This is such an important topic for people to learn.

I love the saying that someone's Jasper. They called the Jasper the laziest way to be healthy.

Yeah.

They're like. They're like. With food, it takes a lot of willpower. Totally. And you got to go to the gym and a lot of important parts of one's health journey. But the nice thing about clean air and clean water, like with usually fat sugars, like addictive food is often harmful food. But there's nothing nice about dirty water or dirty air. So what I like is even when for me, you know, last night it was Halloween and we made some bad food choices last night, me and my wife, she's pregnant. She wasn't feeling like candy. We were driving our golf cart home after retreating, and she smelled fries. So we ordered McDonald's. We got delivery. We got some McNuggets, we got some fries. This probably happens once a year, right? Our sleep score definitely took a hit. But I was like, you know what? I ate really bad today, but I drank really clean filtered water all day. I didn't have any alcohol. I had no pop or soda. And it breathed really clean air. So then for today, I just had to clean up to food. But when I'm. When every day, my like habits normally take a lot of willpower. I love what I could just do. Like, we're probably spending about 400amonth in filtered water here because you get the glass stubs from Mountain Valley Spring. We have ro. We have water softener. I feel amazing about my investment in clean water. Yeah. And, you know, I have to pay for it just like everybody else. But wow, I feel it. Like, I don't feel like an expense. Like water costs money or air costs money or good food costs money, or seeing a health professional costs money. I view it as investing in myself. So I put myself on my balance sheet. And every time I spend money on good water, good food, my value goes up in terms of my health as it. As opposed to my, like, expenses going up.

I love that. Absolutely love that viewpoint. And so true. Also, your productivity goes up. Just saying.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So if anybody's in a sales role or an entrepreneurial capacity or can get their job done in less times, or wants to get a raise or a promotion, when your sleep goes up. So great. By day, air is thinking fuel. It's literally the only. I'm not eating. I'm drinking a little water right now, but I'm not eating anything. So the only thing fuel in this conversation from keeping me alive is the air that I'm breathing. If there was no air in this room, we wouldn't be talking right now, right at nighttime, air becomes your sleep fuel. So you're not drinking water, you're not eating, you're not even getting sunlight at night. Literally the only thing sustaining you, your sleep fuel, is your air. So when you go from like a low quality fuel all night long to high quality fuel, so now you're sleeping better, you're healing, you're recovering, and then all of a sudden it makes your ability to be more productive, have more energy, be more present with your kids, with your spouse. Yeah, just like energy. So background stuff. My background was in wildfire restoration, bloods, mold and hurricane cleanup. So not like your. We weren't the local guys that you could call to get us to come over and, you know, handle your kitchen little. Your little. Your little flood. Nah, we were a traveling band. So we would go to wherever in the continent was the most destroyed. So recently or, you know, North Carolina and Florida got hit by some big hurricanes. So we would have been in those environments for like six months after handling heavy duty cleanup for McMurray, Alberta wildfires in Canada, California wildfires, tsunamis. Like, we would handle the worst of it. And when there's. You don't realize it, but when you're handling bad fire damage, you're also doing floods and mold because homes get water bombed by planes. So you have a house which is now also overly flooded, also very structurally damaged because when the water from a plane lands on your house, your whole structure, the house is bent. And then your house has been. I've seen fish on rooftops many times.

There's one that is crazy. I never would have thought of that.

Plane grabs all the water from the lake and then drops it. So there's seaweed. There's fish. You'll find, like, a fish in someone's living room after a fire. Like, what the heck? How did you get here? Than mold that wasn't tended to for weeks. So I would say I dealt with the gnarliest floods in mold after fires by dealing with water. Water bombers. So just, like, stuff you'd never think about. Now, I have also done at stages, a little bit of regular floods and fires and mold. So I'm very well versed in that too. And I also did air quality consulting for about eight years. So we were the ones where if you were sick at home, chronically unwell, but you weren't sure, then you go on this camping trip, this hiking trip was vacation. You feel awesome. You're like, I'm healed. I'm. And then you go home and you're like, I'm tired again. My energy is low. And then you think you're like, oh, I just feel better on vacation. That might be slightly true, but people have this aha moment. Is my home making me sick?

Yeah.

We were the ones who would get that phone call, and we'd go into your house, and we were like, the MRI for the home. We were looking for mold, for floods, the water quality, what, asbestos, lead, bacteria, like, anything that's toxic, voc, all of that. And then my job was to then give that family a plan on how do we go. It's like, when you get your blood tests from a regular doctor, it's like, we'll call you if you have cancer. Like, they don't call you that. No one's striving for optimal. They're just driving for, like, and what they call normal. You're like, wait, 20 years ago, that was considered obese and diabetic. You're just shifting normal based on average. But if everybody's getting sick, you're calling everybody normal. So the exact same thing that I'm sure you see all the time, all day, every day.

Yeah.

Is the exact same for the house. So, like, what. What would be considered safe levels of carbon dioxide, carbon monoxide, and mold? What are they considering? Safe. So one camp says, there's no safe amount of ozone. The other camp is, like, constantly raising the threshold of what is normal based on what's average. And I whenever. When I was dating my wife 10 years ago, and she would say, I'm so weird, and I'm like, is that the opposite of normal? And is normal synonymous with average? So, yeah, that's what I did. I was going into rough Spots. And I got to see how sick people were after fires, how sick people were after floods, how busy doctors offices were exasperated, autoimmune, asthma, respiratory stuff, all the stuff was worse. And then we were using these industrial commercial grade air purifiers called air scrubbers, the same thing we would use for a toxic mold cleanup or a big wildfire. Hotels, apartments, homes, like heavy duty stuff. And each of those machines was like, equivalent to 10 or 20 little air purifiers.

Yeah.

But I remember some of my customers, after they moved back home, they unplugged them because they were loud and they were ugly. So. So these machines were amazing when it came to, like, cleaning the air. But the downside was they were super loud, they were super ugly, they weren't practical in an everyday house. On the flip side, all that stuff that you see at Best Buy, Walmart, Target, Amazon, they're cheap and they're cute and they're small, but they're ineffective. And they're made from plastic and they won't last very long. So I'm like, whoa, these little air purifiers are like golf carts or Honda Civics. These industrial things are like trapped or trailers or pickup traps. I'm like, where's the Yukon Denali at? Where's the. Where's the luxury suv? I want to take my kids to school. I want to bring my stuff. I want to look good while doing it. So I realized the market was missing this, like, middle ground air purifier that was going to be commercially inspired but beautiful and made for the modern home and people who would want the best there. So I did no market research at all. I just created the air purifier one for my family, for my Wildfire customers. So it had to be effective. It had to be steel. It had to be beautiful. So, yeah, all that, that background doing restoration led me to wanting to be more proactive and less reactive. And now here we are, we get to talk about air.

I know, right? And I've heard you give the analogy. I want to circle back to, like, the little air purifiers, because a lot of people, I think, buy those. Like, they're cheap, they're readily available. You can pick them up at Costco or Best Buy. I've heard you give an analogy of trying to heat the comparison of those to trying to heat a bathtub using a kettle. And how little of an. In like a tea kettle, how little of impact they actually have. Give that analogy for people so that they can understand.

Yeah. So think about A kettle. You want to make a cup of tea. It's a perfect tool, beautiful tool. You want to use the French press, you want to make some tea. The kettle is a wonderful way to heat under half a liter of water. Maybe even, maybe even a reader. But the reason, if you ever tried, and I have tried to heat a bathtub with a kettle, but a hot water tank wasn't working and we want to use the bath, it doesn't work because the water is going to be cooling down faster than you can heat it up. You would think, I'll just fill it, dump it, fill it, dump it. No, you really can't. The water is cooling down at a rate that's faster than you can use them. So even though the kettle is theoretically an amazing water heating tool device, it's not designed to heat the bathtub. Similarly, the shower, the water heater that's heating your bathtubs and your showers couldn't heat your swimming pool. You know, you need a different size and the one that heats your pool couldn't eat the community pool. You know, you needed a different size tool based on the size of the jaw. So most of the layer purifiers, they are like kettles. So if you have like a teeny teen 8 by 8 room, like a tiny, tiny bedroom or a nursery, and you kept that air purifier running 24 hours a day on the loudest possible setting, then it will be very helpful. So like a teeny air purifier 299 a little avoid a shark Winix on full speed 24 hours a day with those little bright lights on, it does something where, where, where it falls apart is it does nothing on any speed less than full speed because it's just way too small. So then it's kind of loud and annoying and you can't rely on any of the smart modes because it would have to be on full time all the time. And because the fan and motor are very cheap, it's not like a very pleasant, nice white noise, soothing sound. With Jasper we used all commercial grade parts. Very high quality. It's called the Nidec DC brushless motor. So it's supposed to be like a very soothing, it's more of a high quality sound as opposed to like a cheap little computer fan. It's a high end motor so it can be silent in your bedroom and still move a lot of air. Or if you like a little bit of white noise, you can turn it up to fan speed too and have it operating like that. And the reason that it's also thorough aesthetic. Going back to the kettle analogy, you can go to Walmart and buy a $19 kettle. It'll probably be black plastic. I'm sure you could picture it right now. Big switch on the side, you know, it's plugged into the wall. It may or may not have that little base thing, but it's going to have plastics in it. And now you're eating a bunch of plastics at high heat, and it's going to look horrible. So every time you're done using the kettle, you shove it in a drawer or, you know, there's a kettle for 70, 80, 90, maybe $100. Maybe it's restoration Hardware or West Elm or probably still Amazon still. And it's going to be glass or it's going to be black metal, and it's going to actually look quite beautiful on your countertop. And you're not going to hide it every time they use it because, like, it's functional decor. It's something that, right. It looks like art. And it's also affecting. So I always explain, like, you can make a DIY air purifier for $200. That's better than almost every air purifier Walmart, though. And often I encourage people that are on, like, a really low budget. DIY air purifiers are very good. There's one called the Corsi Rosenthal box. It's pretty effective. I'm actually working on a new DIY model myself that people will be able to make for even cheaper. The downsides are it won't have a modular fan, so you're going to have to run it on full speed all the time. So it's going to be a little louder, it's going to be a little uglier, but, like, a lot more than a Jasper.

I can vouch for that.

A lot uglier. A lot uglier. So. But I would rather people get something that's effective even if it's ugly, then does nothing for you. Totally. And much rather that. And, you know, there's also some effective air purifiers that are 5 and $600 that are pretty big and loud and they look like they belong in Space Station, but. So they're. They're loud and they're ugly, but they're not affected. Where Jasper was designed for was somebody who wanted a machine that was really effective and beautiful and quiet and just has a filter twice a year. So it's like, it's not for everybody. And I really like to like last thing I would want is someone to think clean air is prohibitively expensive. It's not. It's if you want something that's kind of headache free, maintenance free and looks beautiful, that's sort of where we come in. Because that's what I want for my family, my friends, my customers. So I heard this quote by a singer named Mike Posner on. He's had some really famous songs and he said whenever he would try to make a hit song, he made a song that he hated it and so did everybody else. So he said when he tried to make a song that he loved that was creatively fulfilling a song that he loved once in a while the whole world agreed. So the vision for Jasper is like has this restoration mold guy and still wants a well designed home. I'm just going to make what I really want and some percentage of people out there will want the same thing.

Totally.

That's, that's what Jasper really is.

And that's, that's enough for you? Yeah. I love it. And tell me like when it comes, when we think about like indoor air quality and what, what are the things that we aren't aware of that either A, release out toxic compounds that we're inhaling or B, just like ones that we should be aware of or things that we're doing that could produce them?

Great question. So I'll set the table with outdoor pollution and indoor pollution.

Okay.

And then I'll give you guys some free tips that you could do to implement some of those things right away.

Love that.

So outdoor pollution is, it's the pollute. It's pollution, it's cars, it's restaurants, it's factories, it's the person using balance sheets in your neighborhood and or using toxic stuff in their home. And it's the rubber from the tires and the cars and it's the glyphosate on your neighbor's yard and it's three blocks away, someone's doing a renovation and the contractor's cutting two by fours or they're sealing their driveway or there's road construction happening 12 blocks away. Like even if it happens a mile away, it's still an air pollution problem and it's still impacting you. Your home is not separate from the outside air. Then in the indoor environment we have all those outdoor pollutants in our house also allergens, pollen and mold and cedar, all that. Now inside we also have mold from leaks and high humidity. But then we have cooking. The biggest indoor air pollution thing by far is cooking. We have Cleaning products. We have Lysol, we have Clorox, we have hairsprays. We have the poop from our diapers, you know, our baby's diaper. We have fire retardants and PFAS from all of our. And VOC from furnitures, carpets, coffee tables, nightstands. You have formaldehyde in your bed. You have the paint. Even if it's low, low VOC paint, there's still chemicals that allow that paint to bond and adhere to that wall. There's candles, there's incense, there's sage, there's pan, there's cooking oils, there's pets, there's cat litter, there's pet dander. So it's really overwhelming. And like you said earlier, we spend over 95% of our time indoors now. The world's best air purifier in nature. It's the UV light from the sun, it's the rain, it's the wind, it's the trees. They have filtration systems, their barks. When you hear about trees cleaning the air, it's actually their bark that works, has a filter, really, just the way your HEPA filter has all the pleats. The bark is actually an incredible. So it's bringing in all the air. And the bark actually acts as a air filtration system, similar to the way a regular filter does. So the best air purifier of all time is nature. Unfortunately, most of our homes, we left all that outside. So we have our homes that are like little Tupperware boxes. We have all of our outdoor pollutants, we have the indoor pollutants. We spend 95% of the time indoors, which is a curse and a blessing. It's a curse because that's way too much time inside. It's a blessing because we have this one environment that we can make our healthy, clean air, clean water, good lighting, sanctuary, but not very expensive. And we'll get into the specific toxins. But there's a. Have you ever heard of a term called zucosis?

No.

Well, I'm going to make it a thing. So zucosis is what happens to animals. It's specifically focusing on their mental health, but it's really the whole animal zucosis. It's like psychosis, but it's what happens to animals in captivity. The average elephant in the zoo only lives 17 years. The average elephant in the wild lives 55 years. Dolphins in the wild swim 100 miles a day. Dolphins in captivity don't swim at all. Whether you look at the monkeys, the birds, the primates, the reptiles, all of it. Animals in captivity are struggling. They're dealing with. They're dealing with dementia, anxiety, cancer, depression, banging their heads against the wall, autoimmune, chronic inflammation. I'm like, sounds a little bit like us, right? So if you think about it, I call the subdivisions the zoos, and our homes are the cages, or your apartment building is the zoo and your apartment is the cage. So we're spending 95% of the time indoors. All the same stuff that happens to animals in captivities is happening to us, too. And we're trying to blame it all on the food, and I think the food is a part of it, but I honestly think if you were eating your same toxic diet and you were living in amongst the trees in the nature, you'd be doing a lot better. And the average prisoner in maximum security prison gets an hour or two every day outside for fresh air and sunlight, which means humans are actually closer to the zoo animals, literally. Prisoners in prisons get more fresh air and community and sunlight than the average American or Canadian. And to me, that's wild. And I share that in conjunction with all the stuff that's in our. In our home, because everybody's worrying about, you know, they have the big food budget, the water budget, and then you're busy, you're mopping, you're vacuuming, you're cleaning your surfaces, you're dusting. So you're. This is the same as if you had a fish tank at home, and every day you'd scrub the glass bowl of the fish tank, but you'd never filter the water or change the water. Or if you have a swimming pool, it's like you have to have a filter system for your pool and pumps. You can't just scrub the side of the pool every day. So here we are in our homes with very polluted water or air, in our case, and we're. We're adding tons of chemicals to our little fishbowl. We're scrubbing the perimeters with more chemicals, but we're doing nothing to ensure the water or air in our little fishbowls and clean. So I like to give that whole perspective of how we're living, what's going on, and how much of that is from our modern lifestyle inside, Right?

And it's like the other thing that's happening simultaneously as we're kind of devolving into this era of spending all of our time inside is we are making houses more energy efficient and sealing them up and closing them in so they can't breathe. I remember so Mike came over to my house to install my Jasper himself, like the amazing human that he is. And he did some testing on my house, and he's like, you know what? Your house breathes pretty well. Like, you don't have a ton of. I think it was carbon dioxide. Was it? Yeah, in my house. And I'm like, oh, is that because I have all these plants? He's like, no, it's because. Yeah, it's because your house is old and it actually can breathe. And I think people are so excited about these new homes and energy efficiency, which is. Comes with a slew of obviously benefits, but also we're locking all of the.

Toxins inside the big deal. So when I was doing air quality consulting for a Deck world, as common as any other reason, you get a call with people who are sick from their new home, new homesickness.

So, wow, there's a term called new homesickness.

Well, that's what I call it. Because it's a big deal. Think about that new car smell. You think it's a good smell because you've associated it with. With the sensation of luxury. So you're excited. It's the leather. First of all, it's not just that they intentionally make it a very fragrant experience. They're not dumb. They want you to have a smell of with new car. So they don't let any of the materials off gas. It's off gassing into your lungs. Same thing with the home. When I was doing mold restoration and floods and fires and toxic cleanup, we were trained when we got certified to spray lemon deodorizer around the whole home on all the carpets, like this big pump bottle. News flash. There's no lemons and lemon deodorant. Not one lemon. Because we were taught if it smells clean, it must be clean. So this is why all the cleaning products, you see the shampoos, the hairspray, the air fresheners, everything is fragrant because that way people think when they. When the cleaning lady leaves, the maid is done, it's smelling fresh. She must have done a great job today. Everything's clean yet because it smells clean. We've trained ourselves to. To think that clean actually smells like neutral smell. Like nothing totally clean should smell like you're on a camping trip. Maybe some. Some pineapple, maybe some dirt. That's clean. It's the electrified air after a rainstorm that's clean. It's all been washed away. Clean is not chemical fragrances. Yeah, so. So everybody sort of trapped in these homes, tons of Fragrances, tons of chemicals. And yet we were, we were trained to add more fragrances to further create that smell for people. So in a new home, first of all, yes, it's tightly sealed. Since the 70s, we've been optimizing for energy efficiency. But the problem is energy efficiency comes at the cost of environmental health.

Yeah.

Because you are living in a tight little box. And most of the materials in your home, let's say you buy a new couch. Got a new couch. So yes, it has fire retardants. Yes. It has coatings and all that chemical stuff, stuff to make adhesives, all that, that is made in a factory. And then the day that that couch is done being made in the factory, it's instantly sealed into an airtight container. It's then shipped to some warehouse, you know, so it's probably made in China. Then it will ship to America. It'll be on a boat for a month. And they ship it in. The airtight stuff, though it's not capturing new odors and getting dirty makes sense. But then it's going to sit in a warehouse. Then you're going to go online or go to the store and buy it. It will fit you two or three months. But, but, but it only sits in the warehouse for a little bit. But it's been airtight, wrapped the moment it's been packaged. So the entire off gassing process happens in your home. It doesn't like, it doesn't get. The manufacturing doesn't happen. And then they, they set it outside for it to breathe.

Right.

So every time, you know, you're buying that crib for your baby, you're buying, setting up that new nursery, getting that new cart with that table, that couch, that whatever, all of that initial off gassing is happening in.