106: The Art of the Great Media Interview with Warren Weeks

According to my guest, there are no natural born experts when it comes to dealing with the media. Even the legends need help speaking in front of the camera. Why is it then that so many people who are in a position to speak with the press about positive media coverage, dealing with a contentious issue, or managing a full blown crisis choose not to receive the proper training to help them put their organization in the best light possible? Well, Warren Weeks has the answer.

You know, I really believe that most people, most smart executives, they have these very well rounded careers and educations and they're great at presentations and they're good at delegating and HR and they think they're great at media relations and then something goes wrong and they the knee jerk reaction is to blame the journalists.

On the podcast this week, my conversation with Canada's most in demand media trainer, Warren Weeks has established a reputation for providing executives with sound strategic communications counsel, often under tight timelines and volatile circumstances.

Warren is one of my favorite people.

To follow on social media, not only for his astute advice on all things crisis and media relations, but for his daily crisis tips he portions out each.

Day on Twitter and LinkedIn.

Warren and I both agree the tremendous force of social media can take an exceptional media interview and crisis around on a dime. But a poorly executed interview can send an organization's reputation into a tailspin. Thousands of spokespeople have called upon Warren to learn how to take greater control over their media interviews. And now you, my listener, have that opportunity as well. Here's Warren Weeks sharing the art of a great media interview.

Hey Warren, so good to have you on the podcast.

Thanks very much Molly.

I feel as if this format or this conversation is the perfect place to discuss your sweet spot which is media training. I love speaking to anyone affiliated or who works with or in or around the media. So tell the listeners about how you help your clients.

So I started out as a journalist many years ago. I won't bore anyone with all those details. Got into corporate communications which a light bulb just went off for me. I just love the business and like you, you, anytime I get to meet like a like minded individual like yourself is a total treat. And I sat in on a media training session many, many years ago and I got to play the role of the journalist. I was still quite young and very green at the time and I just thought I'll never be able to do this. This, this was so cool. This was the coolest thing I'd ever seen and never even imagined that I'd be able to do it. On my own. And you flash forward, you know, 25 years now and it's basically all I'm doing. You know, I had two sessions this week with about 10 people in each. I just love it. So, you know, I really believe that most people, most smart executives, they have these very well rounded careers and educations and they're great at presentations and they're good at delegating and HR and they think they're great at media relations. And then something goes wrong and they, the knee jerk reaction is to blame the journalist. They took me out of context, they misquoted me. They were out to get us. They asked me the wrong questions. And I really believe that, you know, in these days of Donald Trump and fake news and polarized views, I really believe most journalists are not out to get you. Like they have their own problems right now. They're just trying to tell a story. So I really believe people don't understand what an interview is. That sounds kind of audacious. And what I try to do is reveal. It's kind of like the Matrix, right? I'm showing you like here's what you think an interview is, here's what it really is and here's how you do it. And I don't want you to sound like you just got out of a media training session. I don't want you to sound like a politician. I'm not teaching you how to be a weasel. I'm teaching you a whole new thing. So that's basically what I do.

You are speaking my love language of media. When you said you have clients that who tell you the media is out to get us. I hear that statement in almost every single training I do. I do a lot. So I do media training, but I do a lot of workshops, public opinion where we talk about the media. So they're out to get us fake news. And I think, at least for me, and I'm if we're like minded enough, I wonder if we think the same thing. Where do you think those roads lead? Like, I think it goes to an emotion of how they're feeling, if they are ever in a media interview or if the media ever does a story about them, which I feel is fear. Do you feel the same?

I, I do. Right. Like, so I, I don't even know how many people I've trained at this point. It's well into the thousands of people. And I was talking to one of my colleagues the other day about this. There's only really about six or seven common mistakes that people make across all Those people, right? And so I think that there's a, there's a human reflex that when something goes poorly, you want to kind of blame somebody else. And it's. The media is a great scapegoat, especially these days. And, you know, having been on both sides and having, you know, people talk about having a eureka moment in their career, right? And usually it's in something cool like science or, you know, building rockets or medicine. But I had one after 16 years of doing this daily or weekly. Certainly I was driving down the road after a session, I was exhausted, and I remember exactly where I was and it hit me and I've got. This is the first thing you see when you go to my website. It's like a media interview is not a conversation. And I've had arguments with people about this and it should be a conversation. And it is a conversation. And I've talked to journalists and PR professors and to me, this is a really, it's a simple but a profound statement. Because what I started to realize after watching so many interviews, good and bad, is that the mistakes people make are conversational mistakes. Like a media interview looks like a conversation. You're speaking to someone, whether it's across the table or on a telephone or with a camera in front of you. But we're hardwired from the time we're like two and three years old and we learn how to speak, we're hardwired with these habits of conversation. Like the way that you and I were chatting before, before we started recording, or the way that I talked to the barista at Starbucks this morning. And so just like when a doctor has a reflex hammer and they kind of whack you in the knee and your leg pops up, we have conversational reflexes as well. And so I just, I want people to be aware of those. Like, if you think you're getting into a 25 minute conversation, you're screwed. Like, you're, you're going to have bad coverage because you're only going to be judged on your worst two couple things you say. And it's not because they're being malicious. It's because that was probably the most interesting thing you said. So I try to have people, like, I challenge people in my sessions. I used to be kind of sneaky about it. I wouldn't tell them that I was going to do it and that. And I would, I would get them to repeat negative language at some point. I would say, you know, how much of a nightmare has this been for your company? Well, like, I Would. I wouldn't say it's been a nightmare, which is, even though you're saying a positive thing, it's a horrible quote, and now it's the headline of the story and you've lost one of your quotes. So I try to tell people that it's not a conversation. That's really the single biggest takeaway. But I could talk about that for, like a hundred hours straight.

No, you're absolutely right. When it comes to the litany of problems that you might see in an interview, certainly the conversational tip is an important one because it's a strategy, It's a tactic that reporters use to get people talking. And typically a spokesperson is not prepared for that. Now, you do think like a tip meister. Like, you love your tips. And that's how I found you originally on Twitter, we have a little tribe. There's like a tribe of media trainer, PR people. I seem to have a tribe of people up north, all the Canucks. So there are a lot of media people like you up there. There. But your crisis tip today, something I love that you do, Warren, and quite envious about it as well, is every day you are tweeting a crisis tip. And today, number 203 in your messaging and decisions, treat your audience like adults. They can take it. Tell me what that means. Exactly.

So we had chatted previously. You said, you know, how do you come up with these. These tips? Like, did I sit there and write them all out in one day? And I scheduled them through some program, which a really smart way to do it. I do it the stupid old school way. I come up with each one every single day. And so again, there's five or six main themes, but there's hundreds of little nuances and details. So the one today, I went out for an hour and a half walk. And I got to say, this is the most beautiful time of the year for that. Like, I'm going to be shoveling in a couple of weeks, but just the leaves are amazing.

So we live as a sweet spot. It makes you happy.

It's great. So I go out and it just kind of resets me. And I listened to podcasts and I was listening to one and they were talking about. And so something will happen, or I'll see something in the news, or I'll be even a conversation with my children. I'll have this little thing that I'm like, oh, that could be the tip for today. And so the one today was, and not to throw shade at Dr. Anthony Fauci, because, like, you know, the stellar guy, great reputation. But there was a conversation someone was having about early in the pandemic that he and other, you know, we had some. Some people here in Canada as well, one of our chief medical officers saying, you know, masks don't work, don't use masks. And what they were trying to do was save the masks for the first responders and doctors and nurses and that kind of thing. So they kind of knew that masks help, but they were essentially. They were like, lying to the public. Like, it's a harsh word, but they were treating the public like kids. And they. I think that if you just would have come out and so. So what? Like, now that's hurt the credibility, right? Mixed messaging and conflicting messages. People are saying, like, you know, how many times does the boy cry wolf until people are just like, screw it. And you're seeing that happen in states like Florida, where it's like, basically back to normal now and, like, the whole place is on fire. So it was really about that element of, when you're in the boardroom, don't think you're smarter than your audience, don't try to deceive them with your fancy moves and trickery, because it's going to backfire. Especially today where everybody has a smartphone and everyone is a whistleblower, I think truthfulness and transparency are the biggest thing. So I think if they would have just said, look, masks are helpful. If you can make one, that's great. If you have a grandma who knows how to sew, fantastic. But right now, we need to save them for the first responders. And, like, next month, maybe we'll have enough for you. I think people are aware enough. Like, again, not all people, because people were hoarding toilet paper in the beginning. So I think most people, though, if you treat them like adults, will be able to take it and then you don't lose your credibility. Right.

I couldn't agree with you more. And I think your tip also speaks to another challenge that I hear the feedback is the fear of being taken out of context. They fear if they say too much or like you're saying here, if they're getting too close to the truth, then they're going to have to answer to that as well. So, Warren, I love how you think and I love how you think about media training. So I have you on the podcast today to talk about the executive, someone who perhaps is comfortable in the official spokesperson place. Maybe they're not as comfortable, but there are challenges, obviously, that we've already talked about right now for being an effective Official spokesperson for a conversation. So let's talk about why they are in many cases woefully unprepared. So it sounds like you come across this type of executive a lot.

Is that true?

I think everybody's like this, right? Like, you know, if I had to put everyone on a pie chart, I would say, are there untrainable people? Are there people who I've gone through two or three sessions with and I'm at the end of the day and go to the client, like, don't put them in front of the media. That's only happened three times in two and a half decades. Most people are trainable and it's ironic or funny, I guess probably not ironic, but I find it interesting that the people who want to come back and do refreshers and do more training and do more practice are the people who are really good at it. It's those people who are self aware enough and they know like, you never stop learning. I'm still learning this stuff. And I say to people in my training sessions, look, we're going to go through a process today. It's going to sound kind of basic and it's going to sound sort of repetitive and this discipline. But I want you to know that I got a call, you might have seen that Ellen thing that I sent out a couple of weeks ago. I was like ripping apart her kind of non apology and I got a call.

Warren, I have to tell you because I already recorded my podcast. I went, great. Warren came out with the same interview. But you and I said essentially the same thing.

Yeah, it's, it was, I found that. And I don't usually like, you know, these things will come up and they'll, I'll see them and I'll let them go. But that one I found especially Weasley. And so like she was doing like, I have to say it was very well, it was very well done for what it was. But it wasn't a real apology. It was like, I think people would watch it and go, oh my God, that was so great. And I'm like, no it wasn't. And here are the nine reasons why. And you kind of said the same thing. I forgot your original question.

Oh, well, we were talking about. But even, even Ellen, that my question even relates to, oh, the executive is why. Why are executives, what do you think is the biggest block for someone who needs to be an official spokesperson or you know, even in the case of Ellen, who had to apologize, what is their biggest block to being a good spokesperson?

There's a couple. One is arrogance. If you're a great presenter, you think that's automatically you're a great media spokesperson. If you are, if you're great at, and you tell great jokes and people, ha. Bob's so funny or Susan's so hilarious, you think that that automatically extends. And they're completely different skill sets. Like, there's a little bit of overlap, but they're, they're completely different. And the other thing is, it's going to sound harsh, but I think there's a general disrespect for communications. Like, I've worked for a lot of companies and a lot of clients where they have all these big wigs around the table and there's no one from communications there. They've got their lawyers and they got the tech people and the HR folks and the, you know, they have all these different people around the table. But there's no communications function. So I think like everyone sees like, oh, like they're the brochure people and they're like the artsy, the English majors and there's a disrespect and it's a hard skill, especially in times like this with this crisis going on. Like, you see the companies who do it well, excel and the companies who don't, don't. So I think there's, there's ignorance, there's, there's arrogance, there's people who think an interview is something else. And, and generally I see people who don't want to do them right. Like they will try to, like a media request will come in and they will not respond quickly and they'll kind of drag their feet or they'll try to pass it off to someone else and then they're concerned. Like, why did you know, they send out a positive news release three months later? Like, why did they not call us back? I'm like, because they can't rely on you when things went wrong. So that's called media relations for a reason.

Mm.

Now, you mentioned the communicators. You know, of course I'm a big advocate for having communicators have a seat at a table. They only bring them in when things go bad and when they're already bad and they bring them into right messaging. But let's talk about the best type of messaging, really. The competent media message. What is the secret to writing a good message or a talking point that will make it on air or make it in print?

So there's a couple, there's a couple tips, right? And it's topic dependent. So it depends on, you know, what you're communicating about. But I tell people in general, in general, I have this kind of slide that I go through and I say, when we create our messages for the simulated interviews we're going to do today, I have kind of a checklist that I go through. And I think one of the biggest barriers is people, when they think of key messages, we think of a 1992 model of what it should be. And we are leveraging the synergies of the strategic. If a journalist hears that, it's just static in their mind. And so they're trying to get something more authentic. One of the things I tell people is your messages need to contain what I call motive. And that word confuses people sometimes. But I'm like, look, who's your audience? Not just the general public, but who is your exact audience? And so I was doing sessions with healthcare people this week. So I said, you know, sometimes your audience might be breastfeeding mothers. Your audience might be parents of kids who are, you know, ages for the first vaccination. It could be men over 40, it could be people in long term care homes. But I want you to really, really identify who your audience is. And then, because if you try to make messages for everybody, they're going to be diluted. So figure out who your most important audience is, write your messages for them, and then make sure they have motive. And what I mean by that is, what is keeping them up at night? What is their chief concern? What is the benefit to them? Like, connect that to your audience. And then in terms of the length, I do these simulated interviews with people, I videotape them, I go back and I watch them and I make notes. And I can tell you that the average answer is like two minutes long. One guy, my award winner for this year is four and a half minutes. I just let him go and he talked for four and a half minutes. I'm like, what news outlet is going to put that in a story? No one. And so this is a really interesting little hack that I tell people. I said, if they say, how long should my messages be? And I say, here's a really cool way to find out. Now in Canada, and sorry for the Canadian accent for the folks who think this is hilarious, but in Canada there's a business news network that people will go on and do interviews about investments and stuff. And so I had a client going on there and he said, how long should my messages be? And instead of making something up, because I'm not afraid to admit that I Didn't know the answer and so I could make it up, but I said why don't we go? And I took a stopwatch and I went and I googled the show he was going to be on and I watched a bunch of episodes of it. And when the host Greg would interview someone, I would time their messages. And I did that 10 times and I averaged it and it turned out to be 44 seconds long, which was longer than I thought. And then I had another client a couple months ago go on. We have something called breakfast television here. It's like 8 in the morning, all these over caffeinated people with these like really short segments. And I timed, I did the same thing, I went on the show three days earlier and I found a bunch of segments and I timed the answers and they were 21 seconds long. Now that doesn't mean all your answers need to be exactly like. You might have one answer that's like absolutely, that would be amazing. And you might have one that's 32 seconds long. But you, you know the news hole exists. And so the same thing can be for radio, for T, for newspaper. If you're having an interview with your local newspaper, go and find 10 stories, find 10 quotes, count the number of words, average them, and that's how long your messages should be. And so you have to have motive, they have to be short, they have to be interesting, they have to tell a story, they have to be 100% true. And the final thing is they can't sound like something that was spit out of a corporate communications algorithm. Right. Like I tell people and it's sort of tongue in cheek but I really mean it. I said how would you tell this to a 12 year old? How would you tell this to your grandparents? And I think if you can do all those things, you're going to have messages that are going to resonate with journalists.

Oh absolutely. And when I listen to, I'm recognizing now that you're just the Canadian version of what I do in my workshop. But you're like the smarties, I'm the M M's. You call it motive, I call it intention. Like there you go, your intention behind the statement, what are you trying to achieve? And you're absolutely right. At the end of the day, a reporter, a news organization needs a nugget. They do not want to hear corporate speak or PR jargon. Do you find or have you ever gotten this feedback about someone sounding too media trained?

Exactly like I tell people in the session, my nightmare is that I watch you on tv. And that's one of the things I actually watch my clients on TV. I got up at 7am last week to watch someone on TV and it was like I'm sitting there in my living room watching the tv, got my pajamas on and like, my heart is filled with her. And like. And then my client contact sent me a picture of her kids at home looking at the TV and cheering for her. Like, those are the moments that I, that I live for. Right, but, but yeah, sorry again, I got in my little anecdote. I forgot the actual question.

Well, we were, I mean, we were just discussing about how you arrive at that nugget.

Oh yeah.

Everyone is looking for, I mean, a live interview obviously is going to be different than an interview over the phone or on a zoom call with a reporter. But you and I, I think, agree it's. It's not about what the per. The spokesperson is saying, it's what the press is going to pick up. You need to give them something that they need right now. Another area that you just touched on is of course the length of. Of discussion, an interview. And you feel as if a spokesperson has much more influence over the length of an interview than they think. And shorter interviews are better than longer ones. So tell me why that is.

So as a journalist, I used to want to book half an hour with somebody, minimum, because if you could. Now we don't get to hear most interviews, right? Like, I have a sister who's a national health reporter here in Canada. I don't get to listen in on her interviews. All I see are the two quotes that end up in the story afterwards. And so it. Interviews tend to be like, I think the average length of an interview. I polled a bunch of journalists and they said about the average length of a phone interview is like 25 minutes. And that's how long it takes to extract something usable from people. Like, so, So I think this will be useful for people who are spokespeople. Think how a journalist thinks and think of like, what does this journalist need? They need, first of all, they need like a sense of what is the story. My editor is going to kick my behind if I don't have the story. And then for me personally, I needed three quotes and I turn into Simon Cowell when I'm doing an interview as a journalist. And what I mean by that is I'm sitting there with my arms crossed and I'm judging the answers. And there's only two answers. There's either no, no, no, no. Like you're talking you're leveraging. And I. No, no, no, no, no, no. And then I'm like, yes. And you hear it in real time. You know when you have it, it's not like I have a half hour interview with you and then I go back and listen to it for quotes. I know when I have them. And so what you can do to, like, I had a client nine years ago, he had never done an interview before. He did 16 in one day, and it was in Toledo, actually. And he ended up doing local paper, local radio, regional paper, trade mags, NBC, abc, CBS, and Fox, all in the course of one day. And I timed all of his interviews, and that's something I would recommend people do as well. Because you get on the phone, you're looking out the window, your feet are up on your desk, you hang up the phone, it's like 42 minutes later, like, you know how many words you've said? It's like 6,500 words, and you're only going to still get two quotes. And so I timed his interviews, and his longest interview is six and a half minutes long. And in every single one of those 16 instances, it was the journalist who ended it because they had what they needed. So the heavy lifting is not during your interview. The heavy lifting is before your interview. It's figuring out, and not just like, what do we want them to write and what are we going to spin and what. How you know, what are the actual messages your audience needs to know? How do you say it? How do you say it? Short, how do you say it? Concise, truthfully, all those different things. So you have much more control. Like, if the interview keeps going on and on and on, that's usually a bit of a red flag. It means you're not communicating properly. And I would also recommend people record their interviews. It's painful, but go back and listen and be a harsh critic. Time your answers. You know, were you giving. Are you trying to be a weasel? Oh, that goes back to your earlier question, right? Like, do. I don't want anyone to sound like they just got out of a media training session. I actually say that in my sessions, if you sound like that, like, I have failed. And so I said earlier, a media interview is not a conversation. There should be a little asterisk there, though, but it should sound like one. So if one of your colleagues was sitting there and watching you or listening to you be interviewed, all they should be thinking is, oh, my God, she is so articulate. Oh, that. That's such a great answer. Oh, My God, I've never thought about it that way. It shouldn't sound like you're reading off a card. It should sound spontaneous. So that, to me, that's the art. Coming up with your content and delivering it in a way that sounds like it's just coming right out of you. That's the art.

And it's not easy, Warren, is it?

Oh, super. It's very difficult. I'm still working on it.

Yeah. And especially if you're not trained. But that's what you do. I mean, you are the media training whisperer for these clients. Now, I only grabbed that because someone just told me that. That I was the crisis response whisperer. And I thought, I think I'll take that. I like that. So, Warren, you have a client and they are prepping for a media interview, and you only had time to tell them one piece of advice before they sat down to that interview. What would it be?

What you're about to get into is not a conversation. That's. That's what I would tell them. If I had five seconds, that's what I would say.

Okay. And that speaks to. Obviously, don't let your guard down. Focus on your intention or your motive, and don't get caught up in the conversation. And make sure you get your. Your key messages out there that need. That need to be said. Okay, that's great, Warren. If anyone wants to follow Warren, how long? Or on Twitter, your Warren underscore weeks. How long will the crisis tips be going?

365. One year.

31 December is when it ends.

I started. It was actually during the pandemic, so I started. I think it was like March 18th or something like that. And I started a book at that time on which I'm still slogging away at. And I started this. I. I was inspired by Gary Gulman, the comedian. And a couple of years ago, he did 365 comedy writing tips every day. And I think he's just a comic genius. And I thought I'd like to. I found that some of the best things for my business have been just giving stuff away, giving knowledge away, giving value away. It feels good. And then six months later, it turns into business. So it's kind of a win win. And so I just had this idea that could I translate that into crisis? And I thought, you know, 365 is a big number. Like, I'm at 203 today. And I'm like, we're scraping the bottom of the barrel here, but you have to dig deeper and look for, like I said, these nuances and different aspects and angles and facets. So I think it's like next March.

That I be done next March. Okay, Well, I encourage everyone to follow you on Twitter at Warren Underscore Weeks. And of course you have a podcast as well. One week show.

I do.

Speaking about all media training.

Not really. It's this, this is, this is a weird digression. So the podcast is on my website and it's very sporadic. Like, one of the things I love about you is like, boom, boom, boom. It's very military. Like you're just cranking them out. And I love your podcast. You have great voice, good topics. So mine was, you know, I'm doing all these, these interviews with, with thousands of people and like, some of them, like, just, you wouldn't, you wouldn't believe, like, I'm sitting across the table from so and so. I can't say who their names are. But like, it's just, it's, it's crazy. And so I do these interviews and by definition, no one is ever supposed to see them. They end up on a hard drive or they end up in the cloud because they're practice. Right. Like, this is, this is doing your reps at the gym. And from a legacy standpoint, I'm like, I love the journalism aspect. I love doing interviews, but there's no, I have no product. Like, if I got hit by a bus tomorrow, my kids have. No, not that they. Like, I can't even force them to listen to them now, but I'm thinking maybe 30 years from now they will. And so this is purely a passion project for me, but it kind of, it lends, it borrows from some of the things I do in my career. So I have been finding people that I would love to speak with. And just like my bucket list of people and the best guests I've found are the ones where I think of their name and I'm like, they'll never say yes. And then I'm like, what do you have to lose? So I'll send them an email and occasionally they'll say yes. And I did one recently. I'm going to publish it in November. But I cannot believe I got to speak to this person. I think, did I tell you who it was last time we chatted? No. It's bonkers. It's off the charts. And so to me, this is probably the best piece of content I've ever made. It's ready to go, and I'm waiting for a certain date in November. To release it.

Oh, so you're not. You're not dropping who it is?

Do you want me to? Okay, well, so I got to. And again, I'm out. I'm on. I'm on a walk, and I'm listening to a podcast, and I just. I heard this little thing, and it made me think of the. The Kennedy assassination, obviously. Everyone, obviously. Like I wasn't around for it. But it's just this. Just. Just. You're trying to see your face. You're trying to figure out who it is.

I. Well, see, I have to tell you, Warren, I need to guess, so drop hints. So is it someone affiliated with. With President Kennedy and his administration? Yeah, that's still. Who is still alive?

Yeah, but you won't believe it.

Okay, keep going.

Do you want a hand, or do you want me to just tell you?

No, give me a hint. I have to know.

He was in the motorcade.

Oh, oh, oh. Clint Hill.

Yeah.

Oh, my goodness. So you just called him up and interviewed him?

I sent an email to his publisher, and again, it's like shot in the dark. Never. I can't believe you know his name right out of the gate. That's amazing.

Excuse me, Warren. This is what I do. I know the most. My new piece of details. But of course, he had a book that came out, and there's three.

Three books.

Okay. I remember the last one when he did his media, when he was doing his media tour on that. So that's fascinating. So did you already have that? No. You're prepping for that interview?

No, it's done. I did it. And so I sent a note. He agreed, took a while to set it up. And he'd had some help issues recently that he's kind of recovering from, but I did, I think. And, no, this is the part you never tell people about, But I did 40 hours of research for that, and I read two of his three books. I was walking down a path, and I was listening to them, but two of his books are 14 hours long each. And then just reading, I'm like, I have one hour with this guy, and I don't want to screw this up. And I have goosebumps. I listen to it now, and I have goosebumps. It was unbelievable. And I should probably keep expectations low, but. And I'm going to release it on November 22, which is the 57th anniversary the. The assassination.

Look at you. Well, I will certainly retweet that. I assume you're going to tweet that. And of course. Of course that will be fascinating. Well, Warren Weeks, you are fascinating and.

I don't know about that.

No. I think if you and I met or went on a walk, we would have a lot of like minded conversations about very obtuse angles of news stories. But it was wonderful speaking with you. Thank you so much for, for just enlightening me not only from your the Canucks version of media training, but also media training for now. It's changed so much from 10 years ago and you are like an of the moment media trainer. So thank you so much for taking.

Thank you. Thanks for having me here. It's been a pleasure.

All right, thanks.

Bye. Bye.

I want to thank Warren Weeks for.

Passing along such helpful advice.

I could speak with him for hours. He knows so much about how the media works, how it really works, and he's such a nice guy. I mentioned on Twitter recently how my teenage son started an online sports trading card company and Warren sent him a batch of cards from his own stash. Canucks, they are just about the nicest people on the planet. If you need someone to help with media or presentation training, you can find Warren Weeks on Twitter at Warren Weeks or check him out on his website, mediatraining toronto.com that's all for this week on the podcast. Thanks again for listening. I'll see you here again next week.

Bye for now.