148: How to Win the Trust Jackpot with Jordan Berman

To create an indestructible reputation, leaders need to be trustworthy. But how do you capture that trust? And how do you get it back when you've lost it? Welcome to the Confident Communications podcast, where we help communicators create the right response at the right time and deliver it in the right place. Everyone knows you cannot be an effective leader or a communicator if you do not have the trust of your stakeholders. But what are the essential behaviors you need to capture such an important quality? In this episode, I'm speaking with Jordan Berman, a trusted advisor in crisis communication issues management, media relations, and stakeholder engagement. I thought his book the Trust A Leader's Guide to Hitting the Trust Jackpot answers that question. For how to capture this high demand quality for people who find themselves in the media fray, especially during a critical time or a time of crisis, Jordan offers three qualities, three key qualities to build that trust. Take a listen, Jordan. So first of all, tell me, just tell me a little bit about your background and why trust became such an important currency to you.

Sure. So I've been working in communications and corporate affairs for about 30 years and I've been super privileged to work in different settings, whether it's not for profit, consulting large publicly traded international organizations or small privately held organizations. And I think what led me to trust was the opportunity to work with hundreds and hundreds of leaders at different levels in their career and leaders from different backgrounds to see how they were able to foster connections with people in order to influence them, mobilize them, or have them follow them. And so I've seen the importance and the impact that trust can have on performance and engagement. And that's what really led me to write this book.

Your book how to Hit the Trust Jackpot. Correct. And you have this concept of almost betting on it. You mentioned that there's a trifecta and we're talking about the jackpot. What is your. Well, first, let me just ask you why a trifecta? Is it really a perfecta? Are these the three qualities that every leader has to have or is it a nice to have?

It's a great question. These are the leadership traits that are the drivers of trust. And it's not Jordan Berman saying that there is literally decades and decades of research from many well known organizations that have demonstrated when they categorize and classify leadership traits and relate them to trust one way or another, these factor in into the top 10 or top 5. The trifecta, as you say, the analogy is horse racing where a trifecta is the jackpot bet if you are a horse racing enthusiast, which I am not, and that is win, place and show first, second and third place, and not dissimilar. The trust trifecta around communications is an approach to communications that is impactful and effective at driving and fostering a connection which leads to trust. And there are three. Authenticity is in the number one spot, the most coveted first place, second place is transparency, and third place is consistency. Now, whether or not you have to have all three, we can talk about that. It's ideal. But we have examples where, you know, you can have authenticity without transparency and consistency and still have trust. It's very difficult, though, for example, to be inconsistent and still have trust because it erodes credibility.

Well, Jordan, I will tell you, I work with the horse racing industry, so this is a terminology that I'm certainly familiar with. And when I look at a trifecta, it is what people aspire to. It's what people want. They're placing a bet on something. So you're essentially saying that leaders, to successfully navigate nowadays, they want to put their money down on these three qualities. So let's discuss these qualities. The first one that you talk about.

Is what the first thing I talk about is consistency, because it's not the sexiest, but it's foundational. So although it's in third place, it's critically important because it's only one of three. And what I would say the benefits and the challenges are the following. The benefits to consistency, and you know this, Molly, from your work with your clients, is that people crave predictability. So people don't like surprises. People also crave clarity. They don't like confusion because it breeds unproductive thinking and behavior. And the last is people like familiarity. So they don't like things that they're not expecting. And so when you look at that, that's what consistency is all about, being reliable. That Molly will say what she said, do what she said, and you see the behavior in the words matching. The challenge that some people have around consistency is it requires being planful and intentional. It requires a level of the new R and D, as I call it, the rigor and discipline that typically people who communicate don't afford that time to prepare for it. It also requires people to link their messages together. Right? So you have to make sense with people hearing your communication. Often what I see in organizations is you come out, you're the president, Molly, you say something, and then let's say three weeks or three months later, you come back to that thing. But you don't make a connection. So you don't say something like, remember my last post last week at the town hall? I mentioned this two months ago. I said we were going to make this decision about our strategy today. I'm here to give you so that integrated ongoing narrative is consistent. It is critical rather to consistency.

What I hear you saying is when there's a lapse in conversation or some type of dialogue where people don't notice the leadership is there, that lapse can create problems. So what is the payoff, if you will, to a leader who is consistent?

The payoff is enormous. It's much easier for people to follow you and follow what is going on when you are consistent. First of all, and let's face it, at the end of the day, the ultimate goal of leadership is followership, meaning you need people to follow you to deliver on a strategy, execute a plan, mobilize around a vision. So part of it is followership. The other part, of course, is trust again, because when you're inconsistent, you will not foster that trust. You will not have that credibility with people. So the payoff is really trust. That's what it is.

What is the second place finish then, for the trifecta?

It's transparency. And you know, people will say, is that really second or should it be first? It's a tough toss up for sure. Look, transparency, we see it all the time, particularly over the past year and a half. You've read lots of articles about the transparency around Covid and communications from policymakers, organizations. But it's absolutely critical to have transparent communication again if your idea and your goal is, is to foster that connection. Because look, at the end of the day, the best way of saying it really, really crisply, Molly, is this. People will trust you when they feel they know you. That's the authenticity. People will trust you when they feel you're being straight with them. That's the transparency. And people will trust you when they feel like you're doing and saying what you said you would do and say. Now, what's interesting about those three things is not only do they marry up with authenticity, transparency and consistency, but they're all about feelings. We're all emotional by nature. Trust is a thing that is intangible and you have to feel it.

What do you say to the leader, a member of the C suite, perhaps a member of a board, when it comes to information, and let's say they've been serving or they've been working for a few decades, they're accustomed to a different way of doing business. All of a sudden we're in an environment now where people are crav more information. In fact, the younger generations are demanding that information. What do you say to someone who has a concern about the risk of too much information being put out there and then there's some form of a backlash? How can you talk them off the ledge, so to speak?

It's an excellent question. I really say one thing, and I've been saying it for decades, and that is you don't have to have all the right answers and you don't have to have all the information. Part of transparency is just saying, look, this is what I'm able to tell you at this point in time about this topic and how we arrived at this decision. And when I have more, I'll be able to share. That's already being transparent, even if you don't tell everybody everything, because the precise way you ask that question is always the challenge. I get back, well, we don't have all the answers. We don't have all the information. And what I say is, that's okay. Employees are big people, right? You hire people, they're all adults. You can tell them what you know and tell them what you don't know.

Jordan. So as you explain it now, that is a good counsel for someone dealing with some incident or crisis like they need to respond. What about information in general? There's no crisis, but let's say it's just an issue. Maybe it's about compensation, maybe it's about a policy, maybe it's just about more of your operations. We're starting the consumers, stakeholders want to know a little bit more about behind the scenes. But there's a reluctance to put forth information to be transparent. Is there anything you can say to those people?

Well, I can point to the evidence that is abundant in studies and research that shows transparent communication leads to four outcomes that are all positive. One is increased productivity, one is increased engagement, and one is increased performance. Sorry. 3. And ultimately any for profit business or not for profit business should be interested in those three things. That's the payoff of being transparent. What I also say to people is there's ways to avoid, if you will, being tied to something that you have communicated that may come back to haunt you or bite you, and that is avoiding. Words that I call are absolutes, always and never. Those kinds of things that tie you to something that you said that maybe months or weeks or years later, people said, oh, well, Molly, you said there wouldn't be any more restructuring. Now you're Saying there is. So again, you know, I'll give you an example. Our company's privately held and for years we have been told that it might be sold. So employees naturally are concerned and are anxious about the job security. And so they ask us and what we've said to them is we don't own the company. We take our direction from the owners and when they let us know, we'll let you know. However, this is the caveat. We may be in a situation that whoever buys us is publicly traded. There may be disclosure requirements so they're not able to share publicly that they're buying us. We have our customers to think about and you know, when is the appropriate time to tell them? As soon as we can. So we're very transparent about the fact that we'll tell you when we can tell you, if we're able to tell you. But we're not in a position right now.

Okay, so we're coming around the bend, we see the finish line right in front of us. What is the number one? You've mentioned it a lot. So tell me what is the number one in the trust trifecta and why it is so important? Why is it the winning quality?

I think authenticity is really about being genuine and being who you are and it requires self reflection, self awareness, feedback from others requires vulnerability is probably the biggest game changer and really parking your ego.

So authenticity, can you think of an example? Just if you were to rip it from the headlines right now, do you have an example of someone who is really embracing the idea of authenticity successfully or counter to that, Someone who isn't?

I don't know if it's right now, but I think we all know the former President Donald Trump. So I'll go back to the 2016 election and very quickly say this. There were many reasons why Hillary Clinton lost, there's no doubt about that. But it's also undeniable that both of them had high unfavorable ratings on trust, on consistency and authenticity. And if you read any of the headlines, particularly for Hillary Clinton, and let's remember Hillary Clinton was a two time first lady, she was a senator, she was a secretary of State, very smart, very articulate, highly experienced. You had Donald Trump, virtually a lack of understanding of how the government worked. Zero experience, reality TV star. So why did he win? Now you look at their communication style, we know that Hillary, not for any reason, but that's her style, tends to be guarded. So there's the authenticity. People felt like they just didn't know her transparency, the Email server. All kinds of other issues surrounded her. She had consistency, but that's why it's in third. It wasn't enough. Then you flip and you look at Donald Trump. Consistent? Absolutely not. He would change by the hour, let alone the day or the week on a policy. Was he transparent? Absolutely not. Think about income tax returns and many other things. And here's the kicker, what you asked. He was authentic. I don't support his style of communication. I don't support what he said. But it is undeniable that he made a connection with 75 million Americans who felt his no filtered approach. He was just being who he is, and that's authenticity. And so they basically said, here's somebody I can trust. I feel like I know him. I feel he's like me. He talks like me, he acts like me, and that's who I want to be. The commander in chief. That's pretty powerful.

Now, Jordan, you are saying this as a Canadian, but you are certainly deep into knowledge of the political landscape right now. But here we are, the summer of 2021, and the former President Donald Trump is trying to reclaim a spot. You know, no matter what he says or does, you know, clearly he wants to recapture the power that he once had. Has he lost his step at all with authenticity, or has the landscape shifted on President Trump since he left office?

Well, I think if you look to his base, they would say the landscape hasn't shifted. He still has an enormous amount of support. What I would say is it is probably time for him to move on. But again, the interesting thing about the former president is that in his mind, he actually believes he will regain power, as you said, and that he is entitled to do it. And so, again, while I don't support the that approach, it's more about conceptually. His authenticity is unbelievably impactful. And there's just. You can't argue with that.

Well, so then let's just speak to then, the landscape. Are people just even in the last four years, are people craving more authenticity, honesty, just real facts, more than they did, let's say, four years ago at a time when he was elected?

Absolutely. I would say that whether or not you're in the US and an American voter or an employee in Canada or anywhere around the world, we know that both transparency and authenticity over the past four or five years are constantly being talked about. And as you mentioned earlier, and I think you were spot on, Molly, particularly younger employees, Millennials are looking for that. And they are more than happy to move on from an organization who does not subscribe to that philosophy and approach to go somewhere where it exists.

As a fellow author, I mean, you wrote the Trust Trifecta, Leader's Guide to Hitting the Trust Jackpot. Your currency is trust, and mine is certainly a part of it is you know, how to create an indestructible brand. Especially in this, you know, digital age that we're in, when people are communicating quite openly about their feelings and their opinions. I always like to add an indestructible tip, like a takeaway for someone listening. What can I use about trust? What are you saying about the Trust Trifecta that will help someone create that indestructible reputation and brand?

I would say that if you communicate consistently, transparently, unauthentic, and authentically, you will create that indestructible brand. And I would say it will serve you well in good times. And as you mentioned earlier, particularly in crises, it will serve you extremely well.

Jordan, thank you so much for taking your time to share this with me. I agree with everything you said. I mean, there's so many qualities out there, but you certainly picked a winning three. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Appreciate it.

My thanks to guest Jordan Berman for offering three winning tactics for building trust. You can find his book the Trust Trifecta A Leader's Guide to Hitting the Trust Jackpot on Amazon. You can also follow him on Twitter at Jordan Underscore Berman. That's all for this week on the podcast. Thanks for listening. Bye for now.