22: How to Handle a Difficult Conversation

Hey, there. Welcome back to the Confident Communications podcast. I'm your host, Molly McPherson. This week is going to get difficult. I am speaking with author Lara Curry. Now, Laura has over 27 years of experience helping people in high conflict situations. She has a special understanding of why people act the way they do during the difficult situations in their life. They could be at work, any type of negative interaction with a colleague or a boss, divorce, conflict with family or friends. Any difficult conversation or situation in your life where you need to inject solid communication skills to put your emotions on pause. In this episode, we explore how to ask yourself the right questions before you respond. Why we need to become less emotional, how men and women communicate differently, how the genders communicate differently, how we can stop and calm down in times of stress instead of going off on someone. Now, Laura is passionate about helping people in these situations, and I loved speaking with her. Her voice is so soothing. I felt like I was in a therapy session. And I know you will as well. It's a very helpful episode. So please take a listen. I know you'll enjoy it. Hello, Laura. Thank you so much for joining me today on the podcast.

Thank you. It's great to be here.

Yeah. Now, Laura Curry, now you. I love the name of just your business and the idea of difficult habits. It really does just sum up everything that you do. So, Laura, could you just tell me in a sentence, how do you help people?

I help people understand why others act and react the way they do and why they act and react the way that they do.

Oh, that's a good description. And I will admit. So I did a little digging and investigating on your background. Now, I would assume that you were coming at me as, you know, a therapist or a counselor, but you have a very interesting background. Background in journalism.

Yes, I was an investigative journalist.

Now, can you just tell me, because I see the dots and how they connect for the work that you do right now, but connect that dot for me. Where did you start and how did you get here?

Sure, sure. So I loved journalism, but being a Gen Xer like you, when I joined, you know, I had the 60 minutes in mind. I wanted to catch someone in a dark room smoking and denying what they, you know, where I have the proof. And unfortunately, at that time, it was the beginning of the death KN for truly great investigative journalism. And they changed the format for news where you would no longer be on staff, you would get paid per piece. And I had an amazing mentor at the time, Barry Mitzman, who now has gone on to even more incredible things. But he sat me down and ran the numbers. And I realized that I was basically getting paid half of what I would be paid before. So I ended up going into nonprofits for a while and then I kind of got back into investigating, investigating by becoming a private investigator. And that kind of fed that part of me where I could uncover the story, find out the truth, see what was really going on. And in that there were a lot of themes with the way that people were, the way that they, their defensiveness showed up, the way that their self protectionism. And also it was that theme of catching people in really difficult situations when high stress, you know, high conflict arenas. As my career moved on and my life moved on and kids and all that, I ended up going to work for the courts as a child advocate in high conflict divorces where again, these same themes kind of played out. And I noticed that in high stress, high stakes positions, there are again the common themes, but then there are the reactions that happen where oftentimes you'd have people who are in total agreement, totally agree, and they are fighting because they don't see that they're saying the same damn thing. Yes.

Oh, so this is fascinating. And I have a similar background as well in that I did work in news. And a lot of journalists find out that the compensation doesn't necessarily match the work output that you're doing in that job. But journalists are drawn to stories and they're also drawn to finding that solution in a way that you're almost reading into the story. So you need to be intuitive. So it sounds like you're very tuned in to either the subject matter or your clients. Now tell me, this easily moves back to the word difficult, of course. So how did that work when you moved from journalism and then you were in the courts and you're working with families, how did you get to where you are now? And it's around that word difficult. So tell me about the where you are now in this journey.

So I decided that I could put my superpowers to use during the extinction burst of my marriage. That's what happens with a lot of people is I was working with adults that were going through high conflict divorce, which was kind of ironic because I had also gone through a divorce. And I realized that if they could just learn a couple of key, key things about themselves, they would have so much less stress, you know, and that kind of gets into the well, then become a therapist and help people. But people have to want to help themselves. So I was talking to the wrong audience. Then I started thinking about the law firms, the attorney firms that the actual groups themselves that cater in these high conflict and high stress arenas. And sometimes even the front desk gal would have no idea what she would be thrown into the fire. But with just a few key things, she could understand why people were already like on fire. You know, they come in the door on fire. What you could do to kind of just ease the entire situation. It's pretty simple really. So when you can train your frontline staff and when you yourself have the skills, you end up attracting the right kind of clients to you and you navigate those difficult situations, you kind of become the go to person because you're not going to be stressed out all the time. Because we take our stress home, you know, it lives with us.

So what I hear you saying is, is that you took, you understood how to read these personal communications and interpret it, interpret what was happening, where the disconnects were, why it was falling apart. And then in your work, now you've been able to transition it into the workplace communication and how people can help themselves communicate and navigate. That's those stickier situations there, correct? Right.

So they understand why it happens, how they can navigate it, and how they can even avoid it. Also how they are contributing to the difficult in the first place. How sometimes just the way that they respond. You had such an awesome episode. I don't remember the number, but it was like how to spot a liar, I think it was called in that there's just certain things that you key into. So even like with that liar episode, it's like, aha, I spot the lie. So I'm going to shift the way that I'm acting or reacting. It's the same thing when you can identify a trigger or a triggered reaction and you know what it's around, you can figure out what someone's trigger is and understand how to then navigate the conflict or the potential conflict. So I think it's imperative for leaders today.

Okay, now you mentioned the word trigger a lot. I know it comes up in your book and in your podcast as well. Define what a trigger word or a trigger situation is.

Sure. So there are two types of triggers. And right off the bat, I'm going to say that this is not a violent emotion trigger that comes from a traumatic experience in your past. Like, there's a lot of people who confuse the two words because there's a words become the soup du jour. This one too, I think is kind of becoming that a trigger is just an automatic and visceral response that you are unaware of. So it usually will show up in someone's face or it's just a shift in tone or an increase in speed in the way that someone's talking. It's an automatic shift that's coming from a visceral place that's bringing up an emotional reaction. So most triggered reactions are around something like a word or the way that someone says something. As a woman, I think that we all have a couple of triggering words where someone will say, you know, honey or sweetie or, you know, that kind of the diminutive words that trigger us automatically.

Now, these trigger words could. They could come from a point of origin in someone's life or their childhood, but it could also be a trigger from something that's quite current. As you mentioned, sweetie or honey. Maybe if someone feels that they were dealing with some type of workplace inequality, you know, as a female or something. A trigger could be anything, correct?

Absolutely. Physical, verbal, or emotional or content. Maybe we're talking about a subject matter that I don't want to talk about. I find it very stressful. And the other person just like, no, I'm going to talk about finances or, you know, whatever it is. Some. Some people are really triggered right now about politics, even just the thought of politics. And it's just like, oh, here we go. Right.

Okay, so now we recognize that we. Everyone has triggers. How do you go about recognizing what your trigger is? Is it obvious?

So it's always a visceral reaction. And if it's happening to me, it's going to be physical. It always shows up somewhere. It's a tightening in your chest or, you know, a heaviness on your shoulders or, you know. Exactly, exactly. It shows up physically, and all of a sudden you are defensive.

Yes.

Why are you defensive? Where's that coming from? That's first of all, right away how you know you've been triggered.

Okay, then what do you do when you feel it? You feel it in your gut. You feel it in. You feel it somewhere in your body, that mind, body connection. Then what do you do?

Slow down. You take a breath and you breathe in. And then you get really curious. You say, what's going on? Why am I defensive? Is it valid? You know, is this person attacking me? And then you, you know, you still. Here's how mine usually goes. Heck, yeah, they're attacking me. Did you hear what he just said? You gotta justify it. And then you get curious externally. Hey, you know, I heard this. And what I infer that to mean is this. Am I getting that right? And then the other person can have a chance to clarify their intention, because it all gets back to intention. Mm.

Okay. So you need to. You need to discover what the intention is of that in person. That person, like, why are they saying what they're saying that's causing this trigger in you? Is that correct?

Right. If you're in a safe space. If you are not in a safe space, you need to check on your intention. What is the intention for this situation? Do I need to act respectfully and get. Get the heck out of here? Do I need to finish my. You know, whatever it was that I came into this exchange to do and do so in the most calm and respectful manner? It's a way to kind of recenter yourself and to get to know yourself a little bit better, because the more you recognize your own triggered reaction, the less power it has to change your mood and to cause that stress and anxiety that shows up when you're triggered.

Now, when you mention the term safe space, you know, when people first hear that, they think of a physical location as a safe space. I'm just learning now that there is a mental safe place, that there are people that you can bring into your world, and they are considered safe. And there are people that are unsafe in the sense that they cause these triggers or they cause you to feel sideways or let a conversation go sideways. So they would be considered unsafe. Correct?

Absolutely. We all know a button pusher who loves to just come in and push everybody's buttons and then sit down and watch the dance. You know, those are not safe people. But once you identify them, you can not play their game. You can even. Especially the triangulation that happens around these people, those are the more blatant ones. It's the more subtle things that kind of come in that are. That come out of the side. You know, they just come out of people's. The side of their neck. It's like, where did that come from? And that's when your defenses are down. And it can impact you the most.

Right now, maybe because you and I both have journalism in our blood. But it sounds like what you're saying to me is, you don't want to have that trigger reaction. You don't want to get emotional, but you want to pivot to the who, what, why, where, and how of the situation. So take the emotion out of it and figure out, okay, who is this person? Why are they triggering me? What is their end game? And how. How am I gonna get myself out of it? Correct.

Right. And how can I relay my Intention. Oftentimes, leaders are triggered, and they might be triggered. I think of a situation where I may be a baby boomer talking with a millennial, and I'm the Gen Xer. Automatically. There's a triangulation going on there, there's an intention that's happening. But the baby boomer, who is used to hierarchical conversations, doesn't understand the level of disrespect that this millennial is showing them where the millennial has been born and raised since the moment that to collaborate, to come together, to talk it out, you know, and they're just like, what's up with this guy?

Now you are getting way into my wheelhouse right now. So I do a lot of trainings and workshops, and I, and I speak to that executive level, the baby boomer level. People that are directors, they're CEOs, they're on a board of trustees, and they're solid, solid baby boomers, maybe later Gen Xers. But I do notice this in the baby boomers, especially the older ones, they feel that millennials, it's like they. It's that group think where they feel that all millennials, they're lazy, they don't care, they don't have loyalty, they don't care about our business. And I feel that it's my job to try and become a translator to explain to them why the millennials really are. They have the same qualities, but they just show it differently. So now, you had mentioned that, you know, a baby boomer might think one way and you touched on millennials being collaborators. So could you tell me, help me, how do you explain the differences without putting down the baby boomer? But how can you gently describe truly how the generations work in the environment that we're in today?

Well, I think the environment that we're in today is. It's not working. It is changing. No matter what, it's going to change towards the millennials. You think of the collaborative workspace, the we work, the co working. It brings out the best in people. I think Amazon and Google and Facebook is an example of why the collaborative way of thinking works. Why they succeed is because you also need to bring in that hierarchical modality in a way. So you need the two to collaborate together. You need less defensiveness from the leader who may be in the. The power position, whether they are the baby boomer or the millennial. Because automatically with age, there's going to be some defensiveness. You know, you're going to start thinking you want to protect your territory in some way. So if you can collaborate in a way that says, I'm going to need this level of respect from you. And that looks like this to me. Because the millennial, they don't know what that looks like. They know what the level of respect looks like to them. And in their mind, they're like, I'm showing it to you. I'm bringing you into my circle, and I'm talking to you. That is respect. Whereas a little differentiation, you know, being deferential might be a way to show respect. So you need to know what people's languages are. Now, in my wheelhouse, I talk a lot about our emotion language and our conflict personality style, because we all have one. And so when you can understand what someone's conflict personality style is, you can understand when you're getting off the rails, when, oh, you know, I think this person's getting defensive. I think that something's coming up to where we need to shift a bit. And then you can speak to them in their emotion language, which is basically just, how do they hear when they're upset?

Okay, can I ask you this one question before we move off the millennial baby boomer? How then, if we are in that millennial mindset right now, where really just business and the culture that we're in is becoming more collaborative, how do you discuss that or explain that to someone that still lives in that hierarchical format in their business? Because we still do have hierarchy. I mean, there are plenty of businesses that are collaborative, but there's still a number of them where a CEO sits at top, and there's an administrative assistant at the front desk. How do we effectively merge this in this environment that we're in right now?

It can be something as simple as getting permission. Getting permission to share your ideas.

Okay, explain that to me.

So just slowing down and saying, hey, you know what? I actually have some thoughts about that. Would you mind if I shared them with you? Something so simple as that might be enough time, because we need time to process things. And I've been on several boards, and sometimes the board meetings go on and people are throwing out their own ideas because they're in their mind ten steps down the road on their idea, and the rest of us kind of need to catch up. So sometimes you just need to slow down and get permission, and other times you need to just say, hmm, this is how I see what you're saying. Is that correct? Just clarify and verify. Because oftentimes there may be a little bit of a misstep between the two generations. And just their level of understanding is.

There a way to do it. If it's not an interpersonal communication, that there's not. Let's just say there's not a millennial in the room. And you're speaking, you're on a board with a bunch of baby boomers, and all of the baby boomers are maligning these millennials, but you are sitting there. What would you say to try and tell this, this board of directors, these bunch of baby boomers, to accept or at least understand this millennial framework of how they work? What would you say in, like, a sentence or.

Well, it would totally depend on the situation. But the first thing that I do, because I'm me, is I would call out what was happening in a funny way so that we could do a reset. So I would start to use a whole bunch of massive generalities. I would do so so blatantly and say, you know, so as they're talking about the millennials, I would talk about all white men and all people from the east and all, you know, whatever it was, all Docker wearers and all guys who wear glasses and, you know, about those bald guys. And I would just make it a joke, and I'd say, oh, were we talking in generalities? Were we just using one paintbrush to brush everybody? Of course not. You know, and I would kind of snap it back, because sometimes you need that. You think of when your kid used to misbehave, you know, and they're young and they're kind of all over the place, and sometimes all you need to do is just clap really loudly or hey. Just to kind of snap them out of it. Well, using humor can go a long way. And then you kind of call up to the surface that, you know, clearly there's some defensiveness going on here, and then use myself as an example as to what I might be feeling defensive about, but then also show. So where. Where's the nugget of gold in here that we get paid the big bucks to find? Because that's why we hired them in the first place. Oh, that is good. Back in. To say, you know, all right, so how can we find this? Because you're the leader, you're in charge. You're the top dog. You can see some. Some stuff that the rest of the people can't.

Yes, you're ending on that compliment. And you're absolutely right, because I think with a lot of these baby boomers, and even on boards, there's still members of the greatest generation, you know, that serve on boards and trustee as trustees, that they don't want to feel out of place, out of date, that they pass their time. They still want to feel relevant. And that there is. That there is a lot of power in the knowledge that they have, and just having that institutional knowledge of, you know, that they bring to their position. So I think you're absolutely right about that. You have to leave them on a high. Leave them happy.

Absolutely. And it's amazing to me. So I did a whole interview series on millennials, and in one of them, I interviewed my son, who is a millennial, and he at one point said, I just want you to see me. Just look at me, just treat me with respect. You act like I don't exist. And he kept saying words like that that were. He felt invisible. And a lot of the millennials feel the same. I think about some of the verbiage that comes up around. I just. I know ours. Oca. Anyway, you know, certain people, it's like it's diminish, diminutive. It kind of cuts them down. It labels them. And that's what people do. They like to paint you with the brush and dismiss you. But boxes and labels and qualifiers and quantifiers are only as good as they serve you. Whenever they are used to label and dismiss, that is where the danger happens. That is where the evil creeps in.

Oh, absolutely.

My opinion. Yeah.

I could not agree with you more. Okay, so then how. Moving into another area that's somewhat similar, because we do. They're not labels, but genders. Genders are very. We have very clear, distinct lines between males and females. Talk to me about the differences between the genders and how they communicate.

Yeah, it's really interesting because women often talk in what I think of as permission language. They have to get permission first. And this has been drilled into our existence. Being a female, I feel like I can speak with authority on this issue. We're taught how to talk, we're taught how to communicate, and we're taught what's effective. Sure, there may be times when I have a little more power or I'm one up where I can just speak my mind and get, you know, get something done by just saying, hey, this needs to be done. But we're taught that what is actually effective is getting permission, talking in a sing songy way, dumbing down what you think. And this is done because we want to connect. We want to have a relationship. It's not like something manipulative, like, ha, ha, I'm gonna, you know, sweet talk of this guy. You know, that's not at all what we're doing, right? It's, you know, we meet someone we don't really know, we test it out, we play with words. Like, hey, you know, I was thinking, really, why did I need all of those clarifiers before saying, would you like to get something to eat? You know, instead of, hey, you know, I was thinking that maybe you and I, we could go. You know, it's just too soft, the language. Well, when we talk like that, men have been trained since birth, since the beginning, to take charge. And what they see is, oh, she needs a little bit of assistance with this. So I'm gonna help her with my language. It sounds rudimentary. You know, it sounds so infantile, but that is kind of the baseline. And when you one up, each one of those convers, step it up. I mean, the same thing is happening. So whenever you hear someone, we have to, like, retrain the way that we have been taught to communicate with one another, and we have to retrain it one relationship at a time. We have to stop using those belittling words. And men have to stop saying things like, I think what Laura means is.

They'Ve given it a term. It's called mansplaining.

Exactly, exactly.

Come in and tell you what to do. Now, there is benefits to Lara, like, when I explain this from a communication point of view, and I talk a lot about how we communicate online and how we communicate through talking points, if we're doing media relations, that male spokespeople or male leaders will use more powerful language than female leaders. Exactly what you're saying. Now, how can we, though, merge these two together? How can women speak less permissive without being. Giving the appearance of being bitchy? Like, how do. How can we help women with this?

So that gets into the perception of others, and you can't change the way people perceive you at all. What you can do is you can educate people on communication styles. There are going to be those that speak in verbal ways, meaning, I'm going to tell you stories, I'm going to give examples. I'm going to go, that's the way that I'm going to share information with you. Then there are people who will speak in visual ways where they will give you the imagery they will speak. So understanding how people speak and how you can be heard and speaking in their language, and that's not male, female or masculine, feminine. That is the way that they take in information. There is visual, verbal and kinesthetic. So when you can kind of understand how they hear and then Get. Get to do the clarify and verify. Do you understand what I mean? Or if they are a, you know, verbal processor, do you hear what I'm saying? Or if they're visual. Do you see what I mean?

Yes. Now, I heard what you said right in the beginning, is that this is a one on one job. It's not you're standing in front of a room and you want to communicate better as a female. It's every person in your life, you have to decide how you can effectively best communicate with that person. Correct?

Absolutely. And we all have a job to do. We have to call stuff out. So when we see someone being dismissed or someone's idea being taken, we need to say stuff. Now, me, because I am who I am, I like to make a joke out of it, and I like to take it just one step too far. So if I see, you know, Jeff taking Jane's idea or just re explaining it, and maybe what he's doing is just verbally processing what she was saying, not even trying to take her idea. But I need to call it back out again because people will focus on him being the last person who said it as the owner of the idea. Just saying something like, yeah, Jeff. And I love it, loved it the first time when I heard it from Jane. Right. Remember when Jane said, you know, just kind of bringing it back around, but not, you know, like, totally, you know, don't be dissing on Jeff, but bring it back around to great. Yeah. You're verbally processing that and you're understanding Jane's idea correctly. You got to kind of call it out when you see it.

Okay, so you had mentioned there's auditory, there's visual, and then there is kinesthetic. Kinesthetic. Okay. So you have these three elements. Now, are you saying that as a communicator, if you're dealing one on one with someone, so let's just say it's a female, male relationship. It might be co workers, colleagues. Does the female then have to identify, let's say, Jeff, for example, how Jeff best processes information, like, is he more auditory, Is he more visual? Like, is that what you're saying, the formula that you have to use?

Yeah. So right there, Jeff was processing what Jane was saying in my example, because he needed to verbalize it to kind of. And he could be a kinesthetic learner, because kinesthetics got to get their hands in there and just do it. So he might have been processing it that way, and two things might be happening. Jane might be like, yeah, Jeff, are You still in my idea? What the hell's going on over here? You know? And Jeff's like, okay, I see. She's brilliant. I get what she's talking about, you know, so you don't know. You got to disconnect right there. But if she identifies that, oh, he's not trying to steal my idea and mansplain it and, you know, take over my idea. He's trying to verbally process it, but without the clarifying and verifying and calling it to the attention, you have have as many other people are in the room, they all have an idea of what's going on there. I mean, maybe Bill had his head down on his phone and was texting and he pops up and Jeff is talking and he's processing that, and he's like, dang, Jeff, that is brilliant. He missed the whole. So you just got to kind of call it out, especially as a leader.

Oh, Laura, this sounds exhausting. So every person that you meet, you have to run through this filter and figure out how the best process is. But I guess what I hear you saying is we all need to become less emotional about when we have, like a disruptive or disconnected disconnection with a person. We want to try and take that emotional conversation or those emotional triggers out and truly come in from a more intellectual point of view and try just break down the best way that this person communicates. Correct.

I think it's almost emotive. I actually, I'm such a feeler. I'm an enfp. I go around feeling everybody else's feelings for them. So you're welcome. You don't have to feel them. It's just always living within me. So I actually want to wed the two whenever I feel defensive. And I actually, I talk about it in my book, but I spent the first several decades of my life living that reactionary life, constantly being defensive, not understanding why I was reacting the way that I do. So I actually love it when I get defensive because then it's like, oh, there's something I'm not understanding. How can I figure it out? And in figuring it out, how can I help the other person understand what's happening too, so that we all reach a higher plane of understanding and communicating? It's sort of like 20, 30 years ago. Nobody knew what strengthsfinders was or Myers Briggs was, or, you know, it's the new way. Well, this is the new way. And I think that this challenge of all this intergenerational co working that we're now doing is giving us this this ability. And we as leaders, you know, it used to be my mom's generation and we're moving, you know, we're quickly moving into it. I just turned 50 this year. It's like, oh, wait a minute, I guess it's my turn. I better, you know, into this new decade. And part of that is calling it out. Calling it out when you see it with Jeff and Jane, or just calling it out in a more calm way like when you see a Senate hearing where it was all men. But oddly enough, they've called in one female attorney who has not had anything to do with this case to be the. That's dumbing it down, that's trying to spoon feed and you're, you know, that's first of all to that woman. Why did you take this position when you know exactly, you are being used as a coat, you know, just kind of calling it out and bringing it into the lexicon of conversation in a non attacking way. But, oh, we see the game plan you're doing, that's no longer working. So let's bring the conversation to a higher level and a higher plane and let's actually have that conversation now.

Now, when you're referring to that court case, were you referring to Judge Kavanaugh hearing?

Oh, yeah, absolutely.

All right, now, but let's say Judge Kavanaugh hearing. So they brought in the, the female prosecutor to ask the questions. And we all know why she did that. Are you saying she should have turned that down?

I'm saying I'd like to bring it out and talk about why she took it and what her intention was in taking it and what she thought so that we can at the, at the very least call out what's happening. The emperor has no clothes on. And also being, you know, being funny. I would have, I loved Matt Damon portrayal.

Oh. On Saturday Night Live and Edie Bryant, who played the part of the female prosecutor there. I don't know. Was she a prosecutor? What was her role?

I think she was just a spokesperson. Yeah, I mean, I don't, I don't even know what the point of that was, but it was so I felt just further patronized. It's like, seriously, you know, come on, you should have picked a black woman. That would have been the coup de gras, people, you know.

A black lesbian.

Yes, exactly. As you wish.

So let's take that scenario though. Let's bring it into the boardroom. Okay, so let's say you have a board of directors. They are all white males over the age of 60 and they decide that they have to bring a gallon. And it's always a gal. It's not a woman. We got a gal. Are you saying then that this gal should say something? Something should mention the elephant in the room? And if so, what should she be saying?

I think it all depends on who you are. I like to use humor. One of the things that I would have personally done with Kavanaugh is I would have started calling out, this is my fantasy.

Right.

I would have said things like, whoa, whoa, let's not get hysterical. Settle down, settle down. You know, I would have used typical words that are juxtaposed that were placed on women. I would do things like. I would use humor to kind of call it out in subtle ways. Because I think that when you. When you use defensiveness and anger. Well, first of all, defensiveness brings out defensiveness. You can't walk into a room and be really defensive and not have everybody else get defensive right away. But you can also just be the example, you know, teach them how to talk to you. You can even say things like, oh, actually, it's Ms. Curry, but thanks.

Oh, okay. Now it sounds. Even though I'm a female, we're of the same generation. It does sound a little bitchy, though, right?

That's in the ear of the beholder. You know, I like what Amy Poehler said. Yeah. I think of Amy Poehler. She said, yeah, I'm a bitch because bitches get shit done. I'm sorry to swear on the podcast I did not mean to.

That's okay. But it was a good point. It's a sale point. And again, again, you use humor to soften this language. And I do that a lot as well, because I. In the work that I do, I am always coming up against the sexism talk, the racism talk, the generational. I feel like I'm the translator. I'm always trying to tell, explain to baby boomers why millennials are not the end of the world. Explaining to males why females have every right to be in the position that they're in and that we should not classify them and disappoint them just because they're gals or they're ladies that we're bringing on a board. So here is that you want to try and remove as much emotion as you can. Take the defensiveness away or embrace the emotion or embrace the emotion, but try and smooth out the edges. Really. Just calling it out.

Yeah. And understand what it means. I have a series all about every single emotion and what its purpose is, because every emotion has a Purpose. So whenever I see someone saying something, she's such a bitch. My very first question is, what are you afraid of? Because only someone who gets angry, oh, well, she's a bitch. Is fearful. You know, that's someone who wants to take their Marlboros and go home. That's not someone who's like, wow, she seems aggressive, or that reaction that she had seems out of step with what's actually happening here. Those are very different things.

And that emotion, I have to say, in the work that I do, fear is now, I think, the biggest block or challenge for so many people. Whether it's understanding another person, whether it's how to use Facebook or how to use Twitter, or people are just afraid. They're afraid of what can happen. And that. That fear, capital F, comes in so often. Now you have a book, Difficult Happens. How Triggers, boundaries and emotions impact you every day. And it's. It's obviously Chuck Full with all this information as well that we're learning about today. Now, Laura, before we wrap up, is there any type of, like, just a big idea, big advice that you could, if you could speak to that listener right now, now, male or female, millennial baby boomer, Gen Xer, but someone that just can't get through in the workplace, they're just struggling with something. What could they do going into work today to try and smooth the edges of that relationship and the environment that we're in? What's the smartest thing to do?

I think the very first thing is to listen closely to how people want to be heard, because they're going to be telling you every single day. Everybody wants to be seen. And they're all screaming into the wind on how that can happen. But when you don't tune in to listen. So when you have a conflict with someone else, they want to be seen in a certain way, they want to be heard in a certain way. Try and figure out what that is. And if you're just like, you're too far gone, get curious with them and ask questions. Sometimes just saying, hey, you know, I noticed xyz, are you seeing it the same way and kind of pull them in, get curious around them, ask questions. Now, I'm going to say there is a no when it comes to mentally ill people or people who wish you bad. And then you just got to protect yourself. You got to stop triangulating with anybody else around you. But curiosity and an open mind will take you far.

Yes. Okay. That is such good advice. And the listening is so key. You want to get to Just the gut of what the problem is and strip that emotion away if you can. Laura, thank you so much. Your information was so good. I wish I could pack you up and bring you to all the meetings with my clients and all the talks that I give because this is such valuable information. How can my listeners find out more about you?

I would love it. And thank you so much for having me on. I love to geek out about this stuff. I could do it all day. I would just love it when people throw scenarios at me. I'm like, all right, let's get into this. This is what we can do. Well, everybody can find me@difficult happens.com and on all the socials as Difficult Happens.

And of course you have your podcast at the as well.

Yes, Difficult Happens. Effective communication for bosses.

Oh, that's wonderful. And you'll hear it in that melodic, soothing voice of Laura's when she speaks. Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. This was such valuable information, I know for my listeners, but for me as well. I am going to take this and bring this right out on the road. So thank you so much.

Thank you. This was fun.

Wasn't that amazing advice? I meant it when I said I wish I could bring Laura with me to all of my work, all of my trainings and have her sitting just behind my shoulder to help me find the perfect answer for any difficult situation. Now, if you want more help by Laura, of course you can find it in her book, Difficult How Triggers, Boundaries and Emotions Impact you Every Day. It can be purchased on Kindle and of course on Amazon. Everything is on Amazon. Thank you so much for listening to this week's episode of the Confident Communications podcast. If you want more tips, you can always subscribe to this podcast on Apple, itunes, Stitcher, or wherever you listen to your podcast. Remember, I want to help you become a modern age communicator in your industry and help you build a crisis proof reputation for you and your business. Bye for now. Sa.