225: The Gwen Stefani Allure Interview: Public Relations Backlash

Recently on TikTok. Did you know I have a TikTok? Let's go a little deeper on the former pop punk now married to co judge on the Voice, Blake Shelton singer Gwen Stefani. Oh, and by the way, I made it to Pickleball. Welcome to the Indestructible PR podcast where we use current events and tested media and PR strategies to help prevent or manage a crisis and build an indestructible reputation. Gwen Stefani Ain't no hollaback Girl recently made headlines after an interview with Allure magazine in which she claimed to be Japanese. The pop star and the fashion icon has been receiving a lot of backlash for these comments and a lot of people are accusing her of cultural appropriation. Or was it appreciation on the podcast this week? What's the difference between the two? In the Allure interview, Stefani was asked about her Harajuku era and how it was received by the public. She responded by saying, quote, I said my God, I'm Japanese, end quote. This comment sparked a wave of criticism from fans and critics alike who accused her of appropriating Japanese culture without understanding its significance or meaning. The TikTok that I opened the episode with was my response to to that article. So the controversy raised a lot of questions about cultural appropriation and what it means to be respectful when engaging with other cultures. So while some argue that Stefani's comments were simply an expression of her admiration for that particular Japanese cultures, others, many believe that it was inappropriate for her to claim to be something she is not. The reason why I did that post on that particular Friday is because earlier in the day on I had my monthly membership workshop for the Indestructible PR online community and it was honestly one of my favorite workshops. I invited Melissa Vella Williamson. She has a rich and deep background in diversity, equity, inclusion, communication, but also a true understanding of multicultural elements and aspects to communications. So she has 20 years of experience across all PR sectors. She's an award winning PR practitioner in the communication industry, a national PR columnist, author and podcast, and she also has a podcast as well. She recently wrote an article about her experience at the prsa, the Public Relations Society of America. They have a national conference every year and she recounted in this article her experience as someone who speaks about multicultural issues in public relations and how people in the public relations industry treated her. Oh, it was such a good article and so interesting talking to her. But this episode was originated from a conversation in that workshop with the members where we brought up this Allure article with Gwen Stefani. So then later on, I quickly made a TikTok about the Gwen Stefani post, but I rushed it because I had to get to pickleball, which then created a whole new conversation on TikTok where everyone was asking me, what is pickleball? I thought, what is pickleball? Come on, how old are you? Not in your 50s, clearly, because 50 plus, we're the ones who are playing pickleball. But that's a side note. But that day was such an interesting day for me because I learned a lot even more about multicultural aspects. And I loved that we could hook it with this Gwen Stefani interview. So let's just talk about, you know, that interview in general for Gwen Stefani. So it was in Allure magazine. That was a headline. Gwen Stefani. I said, my God, I'm Japanese. Japanese. The subhead. Fourteen years after the debut of her Harajuku Lovers fragrance collection, we asked Gwen Stefani about the praise, the backlash, and the lessons she's brought into her most recent beauty venture. What she said stunned us. And the reason why is because she said she was Japanese. Now, naturally, there's a lot of pushback online. And one of the theories I posited on this was on my TikTok is that many of the people did not read the entire article. And at the time of my TikTok, I didn't even read the entire article. I only read a few paragraphs from that article. But I had said, I think a lot of the pushback came from the poll quote, which was, you know, I said, my God, I'm Japanese. That poll quote was pulled into social media posts and news stories, you know, without having the full context. And the full context of the article is this, Is that Gwen Stefani? It's in this article. She's walking that fine line. Now, anyone my around my age remembers pop punk Gwen Stefani. Don't speak. We like, we remember that stage and we remember her whole harajuku stage. And I don't know if you're like me, but when I experienced it, it never occurred to me that she was doing something wrong, that she wasn't doing anything other than appreciating it. So Gwen Stefani going into this interview was going into this interview like it was still. Like it was still 1991 or whenever. You know, I just pulled that out of thin air. I actually don't remember the year that Gwen Stefani was big, but I gotta say, it was the 90s, right? Early 90s college. But at any rate, I think she still was in that phase, which was cultural appreciation, she appreciated it so much that she appropriated it. And that's not so much what we want to do nowadays. So I want to explain the difference between the two. And again, this comes from Melissa's presentation that she gave. So I'm giving you her words. And what I learned and what I now have is a greater appreciation for what Gwen was doing and what the definition of both mean when we talk about appropriation and appreciation. Now, before we do that, I want to step back onto a word that I talked about coming into this, which is multicultural. Like, that's Melissa's specialty, is understanding this multicultural dimension to communication, which is incredibly important. So I know on this podcast, I've talked a lot about diversity, equity, and inclusion, which is certainly a part of it. But the idea of culture is a way of connecting people. So because I talk about culture a lot, because I have different channels, I talk about culture in different ways. And in my podcast, I talk about a combination of professional culture with popular culture. And I was just speaking to a good friend of mine, Sean. He's a CEO in the utility industry, in the cooperative utility industry, and he listens to my podcast every week, which is great, and I love. And he'll just chime in. And he had just said to me on the phone, I'm thinking that a lot of your. That's not how Sean talks. He would talk more like. I'm thinking I'd have to guess that a lot of your listeners are now women, now that you spend a lot of time talking about pop culture. I said, and you would be right. But I also have a lot of male listeners as well, because when I go on the road and I do a lot of trainings, mostly men are in these trainings. So I do have that fair mix. But in these popular culture episodes, like, yes, this is about Gwen Stefani, but I always want to pull away my poll quote. You know, my poll lesson is to bring in the communication lesson that we're pulling from a popular culture story or trend, and how can we apply it to our work? That's what I do. That's at the core of all my work, which is why I love following popular culture, because we can all learn. So what is culture? Culture is a shared set of experiences. So whether it evolves around popular culture, it could revolve around, like, book culture, you know, true crime culture, television culture, sports culture, gambling culture, you know, whatever it is, you know, business culture, it's just a way of people experiencing life together in a group. Now, when you think about culture in people, it's what are their preferred values? You know, what do they like to do together? It could be music, food, drink, their type of entertainment, their type of language. It's also understanding that different people have different levels of cultural competence. They can be able to move among these groups or see the different groups for what they are. And the more cultural competence that you have, I think the more confident you can be talking about it. I feel a lot more confident now after having Melissa in my workshop, because she having an expert explain it to me helped me. So I hope that this podcast does the same thing for you, because when it comes to cultural communications, we want to show an appreciation. We want to connect with different groups. And so if you work in communications or you have communications in your business, you want to add it. It's not just dei, diversity, equity, and inclusion. I think people feel when they hear those words or they see the acronym, it makes them nervous, like, oh, God, now we have to do something so people don't get mad at us. We don't want to look at it that way. We don't want to look at it as something you have to do. We have to look at it as something that you should do because you want to do it because it's the right thing to do the same thing with an appreciation for cultures. And that's what I think makes it a lot easier. Now, what is the difference between appropriation versus appreciation? Cultural appropriation is when the use of a cultural icon, reference, or traditional is done in a disrespectful way. Okay, so this is straight from Melissa's presentation. So think of someone taking an icon, a reference, a tradition, and using it disrespectfully. Counter that to cultural appreciation, where there is a respectful sharing of information and inclusion of participation by or with members of that group. Now, through that definition, think about Gwen Stefani. Like, where does she fall? That's why it's not that easy. It really isn't that easy. Now, technically, I think she falls under cultural appropriation because she is taking a culture, harajuku culture, and she is appropriating it for her brand, and she is inserting herself into that culture when she is not a part of that culture. She profited off that culture. Okay? So the reason why people think that some people probably think, and why she thinks that it wasn't wrong is because she so deeply appreciates it. If you were to go back to that phase of her career, if you remember it in real time, I just Remember Gwen Stefani just immersing herself in it and loving it. And then when you read this entire Allure article, you could see that she desperately appreciates that culture. And probably one of the reasons why she appreciates it is because she made a lot of money off that culture. And that's where it falls in the other category of appropriation. She wasn't disrespectful by demeaning or putting down the culture in any way, making fun of the culture. She took on the role of it. But she was using the culture to be able to profit and to make money off of it. And that is the appropriation piece of it that she doesn't see. So for anyone in their communication, here are some of the differences. Some of the dudes or don'ts. So in cultural appropriation, you don't want to include ethnic stereotypes in any of your content, any of your material, any of your jokes, any of your conversation. Melissa used an example of Karlie Kloss in a Victoria's Secret fashion show when she was wearing a headdress. We don't do that anymore. And that's why it gets a little bit dicey with a lot of these schools and high schools that have Native American icons and mascots, where it gets difficult. That's cultural appropriation. So you don't want to use those sacred artifacts as decorations or accessories or logos. That's why the Cleveland Indians are no longer the Cleveland Indians. They are the Guardians, which is such a horrible name for a baseball team, but it's not the Indians anymore. And you also don't want to hold an event about a cultural group without including members of that cultural group. So here you are putting forth a great effort to have some multicultural event. But if you don't, if it's planned by a bunch of white people that have no experience in it, then that is going to be cultural appropriation. Now here are some of the do's as it relates to cultural appreciation. You want to include a subject matter expert in any of your planning, your writing, or your event. If you happen to have an event for me, I could not give a presentation on multicultural communication because I don't have the experience in it. Bringing Melissa in, that is how you do it. You bring an expert in to talk about it. Also, you can invite academics or a nonprofit or a cultural consultant like Melissa, you know, into your business, into your planning. That would make any event that you do that much more special and that much safer. Because again, I know so much of this is people are worried that they're going to end up in hot water because they don't plan or they're worried that they're going to fall into cultural appropriation. You should honor heritage. You should credit the source of artistry, food, music, and ideas. Go back in history. How did we get here? Who do we have to thank for this dish, this art, this sacred ritual? Honor. Don't exploit, but honor the work and make sure that anything you do from a multicultural point of view aligns with your values, your organization's values. And this could be the same, too. Like, for Gwen Stefani, she could have gone through that article just fine. With a couple sentences she could have said, like using the word appropriation and appreciation. I appreciated that culture at that time in my life so much. I wanted to be Japanese because I loved everyone that I met and their music and their ideology and their this and their that and their graphic and whatever it was, I loved it. I immersed myself in it. But I recognize now, at the time, without knowing, my appreciation was closer to appropriation. I was becoming a culture that I didn't exist in. I wanted to be Japanese. I wasn't Japanese. And I see that now. But it doesn't change my appreciation for the culture and my love for their music, for, you know. You know, see what I'm saying? Like, that's all she needed to do. Just a couple sentences and she would have been fine. If you want to read the article, I have a link in the show Notes. Now, in every episode, I include one indestructible PR tip. It's one easy to remember takeaway to help you build an indestructible reputation. And here it is. It's important to remember that cultural appropriation can have serious consequences, as it can lead to stereotypes and misrepresentations of certain cultures. And it's also important to recognize that each culture has its own unique history and traditions that should be respected and appreciated. So the incident with Gwen Stefani, it just serves as an important reminder for the need of a greater awareness when we're engaging with different cultures. So if you are a communicator or you run a business or a brand, you want to strive to understand the nuances of each culture before you make any claims or assumptions about them or use them. Now, here's my little easy to remember hack for how to remember. Is it appropriation or appreciation? Okay, just remember, appropriation is. No, no. Appropriation and appreciation is. Yee. We want to do. Yippee. We want appreciate culture. That's how my simple Mind works. Oh, that reminds me of the Simple Minds. So for all of you, don't you forget about me. That's all for this week on the podcast. Bye for now.