251: A Realistic Picture of Disability Rights and Inclusion in Media and Marketing with Kelsey Lindell

Selena Gomez, Selma Blair, Michael J. Fox, Nick Jonas, Harry Potter, our favorite wizard. They all have something in common, but maybe you do too. Welcome to the Indestructible PR Podcast where we use current events and tested media and PR strategies to help prevent or manage a crisis and build an indestructible reputation. It's been over 30 years since the American with Disabilities act was implemented, yet there are still barriers to inclusivity that persist, particularly for the celebrities and the non celebs, the hoi polloi just like you and me who bear the weight of public scrutiny as it relates to their disabilities. Today, let's explore that unsettling issue of when we're not being inclusive to to a marginalized group that not that many people think about with my guest, Kelsey Lindell, who is a physically disabled woman who's on a mission to educate 1 million people about disability rights and ableism this year. Take a listen. Kelsey, I'm so happy to speak with you today on a very important topic that also happens to be your passion. Welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much for having me. I'm so excited to chat with you again, Kelsey.

This is our second conversation. You spoke with my membership a couple months ago and it was an outstanding talk about a segment in, you know, the communication marketing branding field that not only do so many people sadly overlook, but also they overlook it and there's such opportunity that is missed there. So we're definitely going to get into that. And but before we do, could you just tell the listeners a little bit about yourself?

Sure, yeah. I'm a disabled woman and I worked in disability advocacy internationally with advocacy groups for the first like five years of my career and for the last 10 years I've been in the marketing space. I've worked for big companies, I've worked for Production Studio where I'm at right now. And time and time again I would see well intentioned leaders and marketers trying to include people with disabilities or trying to just be inclusive but overlooking disability. And they had no idea that some of the things that they were doing or saying were problematic. So I started Misfit Media. Misfit Media is a disabled led and run creative agency. So all of our people have disabilities, have lived experience with disability, have expertise in disability, but also have decades of creative experience. So we focus on three different areas in our business, education, consulting and creative. So a lot of our workshop, a lot of our work is doing workshops, whether that's bespoke workshops where we come into your place of work and do Them or if it's on demand, and you stream them. We're really passionate about educating marketers so that they don't need us to do every single thing for them. They don't need us to hold their hand every step of the way.

Okay, thank you. So, yeah, why don't we start at the beginning here and just define what is technically a disability?

Yeah, well, the ADA defines disability as some sort of a diagnosis or life experience that limits one or more major. Major life activities. Right. So there's a lot of people that technically are disabled that don't even realize that they're disabled. So that's the ADA's definition. And then we expand that within misfit to include neurodivergent diagnosis, which is a newer term that talks about, refers to basically a variation in how someone's brain works. So autism is a part of neurodiversity. So is adhd. So it's dyslexia. So is Tourette's. So those are also underneath the disability umbrella. But they took. They weren't traditionally, because when the ADA defined disability, those terms didn't exist yet.

Okay, so ada, meaning Americans with Disabilities with Disabilities Act.

Yeah.

Most people associate disability with mobility and the lack of mobility. But do these other. You know, the spectrum, you know, asd, you know, all these other disorders, they all fall under ada, and also, do they fall under your scope when people think about branding and marketing with disabilities?

Yeah. Yeah. One thing we talk about a lot is that not all disabilities are visible. Most disabilities are not. So I was born missing half of my left arm. That was the first disability I ever had. I also. I have adhd. I also have stage four endometriosis, which most people don't realize that's a disability, but for me, it is. I can't walk half the time anymore. So, like, that's definitely a disability. It's getting in the way of multiple major life activities. And then I also have a traumatic brain injury. I was going for a walk a few years ago, and a car came and hit me. And so I have a permanent traumatic brain injury. And so one thing we also talk about a lot is that disability is the only marginalized community that anyone can join at any anytime.

Oh, that. That is putting it all into perspective, isn't it?

Yeah. Yes, totally.

So when. What are some of the common misconceptions that. That brands might make when it comes to trying to include disabled people in their. In their content?

Well, the first is that they don't. We know that disability makes up 25% of the population and 40% of American families have at least one person with a disability in them. Yet at most, people with disabilities are only seen in media 3.5% of the time. And within advertising it's even lower. It's 1%. And the center for Storytellers and Scholars, which is this organization that does great work that really like, looks at narrative, identifies that 80% of this very small amount of representation is problematic. So the first thing is that they, they don't do it. They oftentimes this could be to an implicit bias. They think that disability is rare or it's not that common because they don't see it around them very often. Like we talked about, not all disab are visible. So they think it doesn't really matter that much. It's fine. The other reason that they often overlook this is they think that disabled people don't have that big of a buying power. And that's simply not true, you know, because there are things like Social Security insurance, which is horrendous. The amount, the max you can get off social and Social Security insurance, which is basically payment from the government to survive if you absolutely cannot work, is $700 a month. Of course, that is a very, very low income. The same. Oftentimes those people do have other caretakers or providers that are helping support them, though they will purchase some things like it. Maybe they're not going to purchase a luxurious vacation, but they'll purchase toilet paper and they'll purchase their basic needs at Target. You know, like there are things that disabled people still buy. And the other thing that we talked about is 40% of families have at least one person with a disability in them, right? So my husband didn't really think twice about disability inclusion until he met me because he didn't know anybody that was close to him and his family that had one. Now that, now that we're married and he sees how much disability affects my life and how certain products are just inaccessible for me, he will always purchase from the company that does value disability inclusion that we've seen. And one thing that we see a lot is that we know that 90% of consumers will switch to a brand that prioritizes disability inclusion if it's like basically the same product. So if there's two, let's use a toilet paper example again. There's two different types of toilet paper and one has like an ad that they see that has disabled people in it, and somebody who's a parent of somebody with a disability in it sees it, there's a 90% chance they're going to switch over if they don't have loyalty to the other brand for somebody else.

Oh, I'm surprised that it's even 90%. And because people don't notice it. And in my household, I mean, I have celiac disease, which, when a mother has celiac disease, that's not, that's not a disease, that's not a disability. We keep going, we keep eating gluten every single day. But my, recently, my son was diagnosed with type 1 diabetes. You know, he's, you know, been living with it for three years. He's 18 years old now. And as his mother, like his full time caregiver in this, we're kind of in it together. Boy, do I notice every time I see someone with an insulin pump, whether it's in the media, whether it's in entertainment, I notice it and it sticks with me. And the brand sticks with me even. And as a great example, the Jonas Brothers would never be a band that I would normally be super excited about, but when you find out that Nick Jonas has type 1 diabetes and does a lot of work with it, it does make a difference, you know, from brands. Yeah. Now, what are some of the harmful stereotypes surrounding disabilities.

Sure.

Associated with.

There's a lot. So the one I know that we were both kind of like excited to talk about is one called inspiration porn. So inspiration porn is a term that was coined by the late disability activists Stella Young and Stella Young's. She has a whole TED talk on it. It's like 10 minutes. It's super quirky and super fun. If you have 10 minutes, you want to learn about it, listen to it. She's incredible. But basically she goes on to say, like, when she was she, she was a wheelchair user and she would go about her day and people come up to her and be like, oh my gosh, you're so inspiring. You inspire me so much. And her whole thing was like, if I'm not, I don't exist to inspire you. I don't exist to inspire you. And nine times out of 10, literally, when you see a disabled person featured in content, it is to inspire the non disabled viewer. Right. So just like, I mean, respectfully, pornography. That's why she used the term porn. Porn is used to, like, basically make the other person feel good. And it doesn't matter really what's going on with the person on the screen. Right.

Okay.

They're just, they're just there to objectify and it's there to make you Feel good. The inspiration porn is the idea that like disabled people are used for. I mean, not sexually, hopefully, but like we're not. We don't want to be used to just make you feel good that we have our own experiences and it's actually really problematic.

Yeah, like triggering a psychological response, a physical response. Like a dopamine hit.

Yeah, totally. Yes. Ab, Absolutely. And we also see that a lot of people like when we think of. Let's think of sports brands, right? I used to be a fitness instructor before endometriosis took over my life. You'd see them using disabled people in their ads, but it was always Paralympians, right. It was a limp, like Olympic level athletes. Right. Whereas now we're seeing really cool brands. Like Nike does a lot of really cool stuff with postpartum bodies and fat bodies and that's amazing. And they're seeing really positive results from it. But they. You don't see them using everyday disabled people in their content. You still see them just using Paralympics. And so it's kind of like for non disabled people, think about how unrealistic beauty standards are, Right. That's like why there's big movement towards body positivity and exploring what it looks like to have people of all different types of genders and all different types of body sizes featured in ads. When we look at disabled representation, when we only see that inspiration porn trope, what it's saying to society is like, basically, if this disabled person can do it, so can you. Right? And like one that's not true. How harmful is, like, we know it's harmful for to see just size 0 blonde, you know, 5, 10 women in ads, we know that that's harmful on society. Same thing goes for disabled people. If the only disability representation you're showing is a paralympian, that's great that that person could pull themselves up by the bootstraps, but most people can't. So it's actually really harmful because then it puts this idea in people's minds that like, oh, all this, that disabled person can do it, this person can too. When there's actually systemic barriers that prevent us from doing a lot of what other people take for granted.

Yeah, that makes sense. Now you're talking about, you know, Nike incorporating some of this branding inclusion in their. In branding and marketing. I certainly haven't seen it. But are there, are there some good examples of disability inclusion that are more widespread that anybody would. Could recall?

Yeah. So I don't know if anybody could recall this, but I promise you, who can it's the disability community. So degree deodorant. They did a fantastic, like, no notes, amazing PR push. And what they did was they. I always say you should, if you want to really get good PR credit with the disability community, do something for us. So what they did was they changed their packaging so that they would be easy to open for people who have mobility struggles like me, and also put braille on some of their. On some of their products.

Okay, cool.

That's a good place to start.

Yeah.

On top of that. But that also, that helps us, but it also mostly helps them like they're going to get more money because of it. Right. But what they did that I felt really changed the game was they created a whole, like, social justice kind of initiative where they focused on educating gyms and gym owners and trainers about how little representation of disabled trainers there was and how little access for access to wellness and fitness activities disabled people have. And they created guidelines and like a whole campaign surrounding making gyms and fitness facilities accessible. They also created a landing page where fitness instructors or personal trainers who have certification that are disabled could go and like, submit their info so that they could get work and degree help find them some work, which is really powerful and cool. So, like, things like that, where it's not just doing something that like helps you make money immediately, but actually supports the community with equity issues, is no notes way to do it. The thing that I feel like they didn't do well on though, is they didn't talk about it enough. And I feel like if they had partnered with a lot of disabled micro influencers, kind of like mid tier influencers, not just the disabled athletes who have big platforms, but like done a big influencer campaign to talk about it. This would have gotten in front of a lot more people.

Okay, you're touching on something besides yourself. Are there a lot of disability inclusion influencers out there?

Tons.

Okay, what. Who are they? What. What are they talking about?

I mean, Crutches and Spice is one. So there's. There's. There's a whole. There's a whole. There's literally a company that like rep. There's multiple companies that represent all disabled influencers. Yeah, one is called Whaler. They were just. They just acquired a company called C Talent about a year, year and a half ago. C Talent was founded by Keely Cat Wells. They're amazing. They do really cool works. Like what? We don't. We don't do representation of big influencers with disabilities. That's not. We focus on narrative and creative. But when they. When our clients want to work with big disabled influencers, they're who we go to immediately every time.

Kelsey, so you mentioned, you mentioned an influencer who is recently involved in a big kerfuffle on TikTok.

Oh, is she?

Yeah. What do you think?

I don't know if I've seen it.

What do you. I don't want to bring it up because I don't want to draw engagement to it. But what do you think of influencers who will share, post, duet, stitch content from content creators, not brands, content creators who are not disability inclusive, or they may accidentally say something about, you know, overlook it or something like that, and they come after them for the purpose of, you know, kind of harshly advocating for something. But what do you think, you know, to remind people, you know, what do you think about that?

I think it's an understandable response. I think if you want to grow as like a brand influencer, it's not the smartest for your career. But I get it. Like, here's the deal. I don't know what you're talking about, but I've seen that person go after other things in the past. And, like, the reality is that disabled people. I don't know what it was, but let me just list off some of the big issues that we're dealing with. It is legal in 27 states to pay disabled people less than minimum wage. It is legal or we have seven times the rates of sexual assault than non disabled people. We have 11 times higher the rate of suicide than non disabled people. These are really big issues that are plaguing our community. So when someone like crutches and spice goes after somebody who says something really problematic, it is, I believe, literally, like, it's an emotional response and sometimes it's linked to trauma because we've seen really harmful things. And how, whether people want it to or not, what they say and the words they use matter. And it informs implicit bias. Is your audience familiar with the term implicit bias?

I can't speak on behalf of my entire audience.

I don't know if you've had other people talk about this before. So implicit bias is basically how the assumptions that we make without them being said. Right. So, like, if you look at a disabled person and you say, oh, that's sad, that's an implicit bias, that disability is a bad thing. Right. And so the way different things inform our implicit biases, what we see in the media, which is why I'm so passionate about it, informs our implicit bias. What we are taught in school Informs our implicit bias. What we hear our parents say, what we hear people in our churches or religious groups say, those all inform our implicit biases. So if someone is saying problematic things on social media and they don't, like, we also don't know. Right. So, like, I have. I have called a brand out before, and it went pretty viral. And the thing is.

Tell me about that.

Okay. If you can. Yeah, it's. It's. I mean, it's a local. A local organization. I live in Minneapolis. And there's this. I mean, it's not famous because it's not good, but there's this thing called Minneapolis Fashion Week, and I've known the founders of it for years and years. I actually have had the old job of one of them. We know each other very well, and they had done something for the past few years that was pretty problematic. Right. So they. And I. I went to them privately and I was like, are you open to changing this? What they were doing was they were having this fashion show called Fashion Able. And, like, it was all focusing on, like, the ability and not focusing on the. Like, they were like, we don't want to focus on the disability. We want to focus on the ability, which is problematic. And disabled people have asked people to stop saying that. So I explained, like, privately, in person, like, hey, I know you don't intend to be harmful with this. I know your intentions are good. Here's what you're doing, here's what it's reinforcing in society, like, that implicit bias. Here are some changes I would make, and I would be happy to help do a training for you guys. I would volunteer to do it. We could educate all of your producers. And I made some really tactical suggestions, practical things that they could do. Like, why is this the only one fashion event that has disabled people and none of your other ones do? Because that's not inclusion. That's seclusion. That saying you can. You can join, but just for this one, inclusion would be embedding it in all of your practices. So they didn't. And that's one thing. But then they also went on to have a freak show themed fashion show. And I think a lot of people just think of freak shows as spooky carnivals. But what they were was they were disabled people. Until the 1970s, there was a series of laws called the Ugly Laws. The ugly laws were municipal laws that forbade disabled people from being seen in public. The only chance that disabled people were seen in public were at freak shows. Freak shows were organized systems where non disabled People could pay money to laugh at, point at, gawk at, and be horrified by disabled people. So this organization did not do any of, like, you know, the basic, okay, how can we be more inclusive? And they didn't have any disabled people involved in their leadership. This whole thing was run by non disabled people.

Okay, hold on one second. Who did they have? You're saying they actually had a freak show theme and the freaks were people with disabilities?

No, the freaks were not disabled people, but they had put them in styles that accentuated their bodies in ways that emulated freak shows.

Okay, you. You have to. You have to color in the lines here for me.

So there was, for instance, there was someone who was the bearded lady. Right. So there was like, okay, this person. They put a fake beard on them. And, like, people who deal with PCOs often deal with, like, unwanted facial hair.

Okay.

That's not kind. That's not good representation. And what you're doing is you're turning this into a fake. I don't know if I can swear an effing joke, like, yeah, this is fun for you. This is a real struggle for someone else. Right.

Okay. Okay, that's. That's interesting. Now, are you saying they did not change?

They did not even.

Do they still have this fashion week in Minneapolis?

They still have it. And they, you know, did, like, a commitment. They were like, you know, the. The black box apology. Oh, we're sorry. We didn't know. Like, you did know know. You did know. And because. Because you did know. We talked about this privately. I gave you every opportunity. I was like, I was friends with this person. I offered to do it for free. Didn't even make her pay me, and they just chose not to. Then when it escalated to the point that it became something that was going to reinforce negative, implicit biases about disability, I called it out. And so. And I don't think I was. I didn't have one of my business coaches, she calls it my target voice. I've worked with Target before. Right. And so, like, when we work with them, if there's, like, negative feedback, I'm very calm and collective. Like, here's some things we could change. It wasn't my target voice. It was my I'm angry and this is wrong voice. Yeah. And I think it's valid when people respond like that. When we're dismissed, we're dismissed. So I think it's valid that she has some pretty harsh critiques sometimes.

Yeah. And we don't mind this harsh critique. Since I'm from St. Paul, Minnesota, and whenever we can dunk on Minneapolis, we'll definitely do that. But it's. You know what's interesting when you were explaining this, how your initial reaction was to note that it's problematic simply because of the exclusion, which most people wouldn't even think twice about. Now, where I think it absolutely becomes problematic is you talk to her and she dismisses you.

Yeah.

And so goes forward with it. That's incredibly problematic. Now, thinking about brands for anyone who's listening right now. So we have big brands, but we have also small business. We have independent brands, we have influencers. What could someone do right now? So it's July. It is still. I mean, due to my bad, my schedule. We're here mid month. But what month is July?

It's Disability Pride Month. It's a huge month for the disability community. We always within, like disability DEI circles, we jokingly, because humor is a way to cope. Joke that it's the ugly stepchild of all the other awareness months. Four percent of companies will do something this month.

That's 4%. Well, I'm not. To be honest, it's not as well known. I mean, certainly when you hear Pride, you know, Pride, but when you hear disability, I don't think I've ever heard it outside of you.

I guess I would love to. I mean, I guess my question is, though, why? Because disabled people are talking about it. And so I think the reason Pride has become so powerful and successful is big brands have gotten behind it and raised awareness about it. And then there's big parades. Like, Pride started as a protest, just like Disability Pride has started as a protest. Like it was like, no, we are here. We're proud of who we are. You can't change us. They started the same way. I really think the reason Pride has gotten so much momentum is because people listen to that community a lot more and respect it a lot more. Whereas disability makes people feel extremely uncomfortable still.

Right. So what can people do? What can. What can Influencers. What. Small business, mid sized business. What can they do this month or really all months?

Yeah, yeah. So I always say, if you haven't done anything at this point, think of right now as you're jumping off point to get ready for Disability Pride 2024. Because it. I'll use an example. Chick Fil A. Okay. Chick Fil A did a commercial. It wasn't so focused on Disability Pride, but they didn't know anything about, like, disability culture or like how to talk about disability. And so they paid money. They paid a whole production team and Everyone on set for at least a whole day. And they did this story. The story was about a worker who worked at their stores who treated an autistic customer with kindness. She always knew their order and was like a good server to them. And the way and the narrative that Chick Fil a frame, this was like, wow, isn't this inspiring? And here's the deal. Their companies could crank out something like that now if they really wanted to. But what they won't understand is that when you say that treating an autistic customer the same as you would any other customer is inspirational, that makes it gives society a pass on ableism. So unless you're doing deep work, I don't suggest doing anything. I suggest doing the work now. I suggest treating this as your jumping off point of like, oh man, I didn't know that next year we're gonna do something. Or even like you and I were talking about before, National Disability Employment Awareness Month is October, and then International Day of Disabled People is in December. So if you want to start like working towards those things, that's an option. But don't do anything as in terms of like a PR push right now if you're already. So my thing would be to learn like we have. We offer workshops. We're doing five workshops. We offer all kinds of options within Misfit, but there's also other people that are doing lots of great work as well. I love our team, but I. I mostly care that you learn about this. That's mostly what I care about.

Yeah. And it could be as simple though. I mean, we can still tweet about it. We still have hashtag. We could do a post. We mention it. We still have, you know, plenty of time to do that. You know, as you mentioned the of Chick Fil A. And even when you're referring back to Nike and the Paralympians, you know, people. I know a lot of people strive to do good. They strive to do the right thing. And brands do. And it's. And the rules of the road with disability, with marginalized groups is. Is wrought sometimes with it makes it difficult. Because if you do do it wrong, even if you try, there are people out there who will attack you for it, who will bring you down for it. But also with some groups, for instance, when it comes to race, we now, you know, for years, people, you know, either told or, you know, it was indoctrinated in them. Like, you don't see color. You're not supposed to see color. And now we know, no, we need to see Color. We need to see all of why someone is in a marginalized position. You're coming at it in another way. It's like, yes, we want to see it because we want to be awareness of it, but when it comes to branding and marketing, it's important to treat people with disabilities just like everyone else.

Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because of the narrative that's been around us so much. Right. It's either that, like, oh, wow, that person's an inspiration for just existing and wiping their butt in the morning. You know what I mean? Like, wow, oh my gosh. Or the other side is often the other stereotype that we see a lot is like, I have to be careful how I say this. Oftentimes people will, if they're, when they're trying to include people with disabilities, they will show how challenging it is to be a person with a disability without showing the other side. And so then it. I'm not gonna lie to you, being disabled is hard sometimes. Right. Like my endometriosis at disability has made my life extremely challenging. However it is, I don't only have a one dimensional life. So when you just show these little snippets, it reinforces stigmas. So one of the best ways you can show disabled people is like showing them just participating in their everyday life.

Yes, I totally understand that. And going, you know, when you mentioned how difficult it is for you, I think anyone who's ever traveled with me, you know, this weekend, girls weekend on Martha's Vineyard, you know, oh, I forgot to buy the gluten free bread. Oh, I forgot to, you know, and the fact that they're even thinking about it is wonderful. But then you become a nuisance or anyone who's traveled with me or gone to a ball game with me or someplace where they, where, you know, I can't get access to food and I get very hangry. So funny. It is. So it's all about just general, just awareness of it because it does impact more people than we realize. Okay, so I just wanted briefly before we wrap up here. Are there any celebrities that seem to do it well that are bringing disabilities into a new light when now that they have the influence behind them that you think are really making strides here?

Huh? Interesting. So I mean, Niall, I think his last name is Horman. I need to like, check that out. He's a deaf actor and he's incredible. He is, he like won America's Next Top Model. He's hot as hell.

He's really hot.

And he is deaf and he's super Cool. And he's doing a series on his social media talking about, like, deaf erasure and all the systemic issues that deaf people have faced over the years, that people get a better taste of it. So I think that's an example of somebody who's great and has done really cool things. I also want to share a story of somebody who messed up and fixed it it perfectly.

Okay, Lizzo.

So in the United States, the word spaz isn't like, it's not amazing, but it's not super derogatory, but it is extremely offensive to the disabled community in the uk. She was called out and immediately apologized, acknowledged it, changed her song, re recorded it and released it. Like, no notes, no excuse. She wasn't like, oh, but I didn't know. Sorry. Enjoy it. Right? It was so amazing.

Quick. I did a podcast on that. I'll include a link in the show. I also did a post on it and I was amazed, well, shocked, not surprised by how many people were saying to me, what's wrong with spaz? What's wrong with it? What's wrong with it? How many people didn't know?

Yeah, totally. Yeah, absolutely. And so one thing that I talk about a lot is like, think it's important for every single person at every single stage of marketing communications within your business to have some education on this. Because, yes, Lizzo recorded the song and it is, at the end of the day, her responsibility because she is her own brand. But how many producers and sound artists and marketers were involved with the release of that song? Right. Like, it could have. Somebody should have been able to step. And Lizzo is a very, like, like, look at how she responded. She would have responded quickly if they had flagged that for her. Right? Yeah. So the amount of people that that song, the amount of hands that that song went through before it got to Lizzo and before it got to the public was a lot. So that's part of why I say every single person in this industry needs some understanding of this. Because with social media, you're going to get called out.

You are going to get called out. And on the other side of that coin, I think there are a lot of celebrities out there who are bringing a lot of awareness in a lot of unique ways that now it's. It's common. I mean, that Selena Gomez suffering from lupus, that is a constant part of her narrative. There's Michael J. Fox with Parkinson's disease.

Salma Hayek. No, no, no, Not Salma Hayek. Oh, my gosh. What is. I'm so sorry. I just forgot their name. I'm blanking on their name. They were just in Dancing with the Stars. Not Salma Hayek.

For what?

What.

What did they have?

I believe it's Ms. Ms.

Okay. Oh, well, there's also Gigi Hadid, who has. Who has Hashimoto's disease. Yeah. Oh, Selma Blair. Oh, of course. Selma Blair.

Yes.

And gosh, who is the other? She was on Married with Children. Why am I blanking her name? Dead to me. What? The blonde? Oh, my.

Oh, gosh, I'm not gonna know. I haven't seen it yet.

Someone listening to this right now is yelling her name at me.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Oh, my gosh. She's.

She's.

I'm blanking on her. And then I ment. Nick Jonas as well. But there's a lot of celebrities out there who I think are really doing a good job, you know, bringing to light a lot of these disabilities. All right, Kelsey, you know, before we go, you know, you know, just tell me some of the things, you know, some of the ways that people can work with you right now.

Yeah. So it's disability pride month, and we have these awesome series of workshops. There's five of them. First one is what is ableism a crash course? And what it is and what disability is, how it shows up in and around us. The second one is all untapped potential, the ROI of disability inclusive content. We know that companies that do prioritize disability see 30% higher profit margins. So we go through, like, the basics of that. And then we also look at four different commercials in that workshop, one of which is that chick fil A1. And then we compare and contrast good ones versus bad ones and what narrative really does. The third one is say what your guide to disability inclusive language, which gives you a crash course and how to talk about it. Because within every community, language is nuanced. Disability is the largest marginalized community in the world. So of course, of course there's varying takes. It is not comprehensive. Like, I could not put this in an Instagram post if I tried, because, like, you're saying if you post something, someone will get upset. Some people prefer different. Like somebody. Some people within the disability community prefer person with disability. Others prefer disabled person. Others prefer something completely different. So how do you speak to all of them? So we go through that. The third or the fourth one is ask me anything. So one thing I always say is, like. Like, oftentimes people will encourage, especially children to just. Oh, just ask. You're just curious. And, like, I understand that they're curious because children don't understand what they've never seen before. But respectfully, if I'm at Target running errands with my husband, I don't want to educate your 5 year old about my disability. And I think that's like, it's a very common experience for disabled people to be pointed at, stared at, and have kids come up to us and ask.

Ask, Right.

So I always say it's your job as the parent to learn about this and expose them to it at a young age. Sesame street, the Proud family, Daniel Tiger, they all have really good representation of people with disabilities in there. So let's answer your questions. You can explain it to them, you can expose them to it, and then you won't have that awkward situation because it's every parent's worst nightmare when their kid points and asks, mom, what's wrong with that person? Right, Right. We're trying to equip you with the language to help you do that. And then our Last1 is Allyship101. So as non disabled people, how can you show up and support us without centering your own experience?

Oh, that's wonderful. Well, Kelsey, thank you for sharing all that information. And it was Christina Applegate.

Oh, nice. Okay. Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

But, Kelsey, thank you so much. And Ed, again, I think you are just shining a light on a community where people are overlooking so many of them every day. And the ones who we do see instead of, you know, instead of looking at them with pity, we have to look at them like they're just like us, but also just to be reminded that they need to be seen when. They need to be seen when it helps their lives, but also they're just like the rest of us out there.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom on this.

Yeah, thanks for having me.

Happy and happy Disability Pride Month 2023.

Thank you. I know no one support. No one celebrates it brand wise. So I always make my husband celebrate it really hard. I'm like, he'll, like, like, oh, don't you want to go do this? And I'll be like, during Disability Pride month, you want me to do the dishes during Disability Bride Month? So I appreciate it.

Leverage where you can. All right, Kelsey, thank you so much.

Yes, thank you. Have a good one. Bye.