267: Blind Gossip: PR Trick or Truth? With guest, TikTok's Kyle Marisa Roth

Taylor Swift fan or not, you likely heard this story from the Weeknd.

Over the weekend. Taylor Swift and Travis Kelce appearing to make their romance official with a very public kiss. The sweet moment quickly going viral and throwing the Internet into a frenzy. It happened after her show on Saturday. The pop superstar running off the stage and into Kelce's arms, planting a kiss on his lips in full view of her fans. Swifties screaming their approval on social media.

A kiss that quickly went viral. Karma is the guy on the Chiefs coming straight home to me. Oh, Travis Kelce was on a bye week. So he was in Argentina. The end of the concert in Buenos Aires, Taylor runs into his arms, plants a cheek. She changed the lyrics. You see, we saw Travis standing there next to her father. Her father. Hmm. Oh, and by the way, Taylor Swift just earned six nominations for her 2022 album, Midnights. You can't buy that kind of PR. Welcome to the Indestructible PR podcast. I'm Molly McPherson, your crisis communication strategist and your guide through the world of breaking news and pop culture. Join me as we analyze the juiciest movies moments and extract valuable PR lessons. Let's go. Behind the headlines this week, the intersection of popular culture, blind gossip, also known as blind items, and pr. Is it a machine or is it real? If you want more. Oh, I'll give you more. Technically, Kyle Marissa Roth will give you more. She's my special guest this episode. She is the widely popular TikTok blind queen known for the. You want more? I'll give you more. Over opening, we are tackling a topic that's as intriguing as it is controversial. At least on TikTok. We're going to talk about blind gossip and the new PR playbook this week. On the episode, I have to tell you right off the bat, you may listen to this and find yourself ping ponging all over the place. Because if you spend even two minutes watching one Kyle Marissa Roth TikTok, you can imagine what it's like talking for over two hours. We did not stop talking. I cannot tell you how much work.

I had to do today.

And I'd slotted 40 minutes for Kyle. I don't know what I was thinking. I don't know what I was thinking that I would think that we would actually be in and out in 40 minutes. We didn't even have the recording set up in 40 minutes. We were talking so much about so many different things. Things. Oh my goodness. Now, if you don't know Kyle Marissa Roth, she is one of you know many Blind Gossip, blind item creators. They originate on TikTok and then, you know, share their content, you know, across social media. But TikTok is her home. That is certainly where I found her. And I have to say, we didn't talk about this. Surprising. I don't know how we first came in contact with each other. I don't even think we found each other. I am almost certain in the Venn diagram of public relations and blind gossip that we had a crossover, that her followers follow me and vice versa. And then we started taking each other. I follow a lot of Blind Gossip creators and I like many of them and some we've had on this podcast as well. But Kyle, she is a different character. But one of the reasons why I really, really like her is. Is that she just doesn't care. Right? She just puts it all out there. She has wit, she's funny. She admits she has adhd. She does bounce around a lot, but she's brilliant. She is very, very smart. She has a very deep background, highly educated. She went to Lehigh. Oh, my gosh. She worked in finance. I mean, she. I think she said she was an English degree as well. That was in the preamble. This is before we even started recording. I just find her to be fascinating. But one of the places where we really, really connected now, we. We have been following each other for a while, but it was one story that wove us together, and we did not realize it at the time our followers realized it. Kyle and I were following the same story and ended up being one of the biggest stories for both of our careers so far. And that both happened this year. And what we realized is when following the story, we were creating a playbook, a public relations playbook. 4 How to use social media for public relations. But far more important, how not to use it. She and I both broke it down from different sides of the celebrity breakdown. I have to admit, in this episode, I cut a lot of the content because, honestly, we spoke for over two hours. I could not have a podcast going for two hours. If you want the entire piece of content, and I think I'm gonna do it.

Cut.

I think if you. If you can ride along with us, you'll be a part of our conversation. I am loading it to my Patreon so you'll find it there now and you can watch the entire insane video that absolutely. This is the equivalent. This is the image. Think about TV shows like Criminal Minds, anything where there's like a serial killer and. And then they have a shot like an exterior Shot from the police department and then they go in to the det detectives wall and they have all these photos. It's like a murder wall and there's yarn everywhere. So whether it's in the police department or the murder itself, you know, they just put everything on the wall and it just goes everywhere. That's what this conversation was. Oh my God. And I know some people from our comments because Kyle and I both posted about it. Some said, well, I really don't follow PR or I really don't follow blind gossip.

Oh, oh, oh.

By the end of this episode, I'm going to tell you that the two intersect. So much so that I am writing a book. And can I tell you, a big chunk of that book is going to go to this new playbook that Kyle and I are talking about in this episode. So we're going to tackle. You're going to, if you pay attention, we're going to talk about a lot of different. A lot of different celebrities in here, but we're going to focus on two biggies. Take a listen.

Kyle.

Marissa Roth, who I call kmr. I am so excited to speak with you on this podcast.

Welcome. Yes.

Okay, full disclosure though. You and I have been talking for about, I don't know, 90 minutes now. We've already done the podcast.

Hi, Molly. We. We literally just gave each other deep dives on each other's love life. So I know we know everything about each other now. I know Molly's shoes now.

Yes. Yeah, yeah. What we've established is Molly likes men.

Kyle usually does not. Sometimes she does. Molly didn't know that I was queer, which is just.

I didn't. That's a revelation.

That is a revelation. But that, you know, I respect that about you. That you were just so focused on what was coming out of my mouth that you didn't even think about whether or not I liked girls.

I know I didn't. I am just so fascinated by your work and I even appreciate that you one are even on here. Of course. But also that you even give me a second of your time. Someone as an older Gen Xer and you are this young, hip, crazy, fun, blind gossip, amazing creator and the fact that you can give me any of your airspace just makes me happy. Yeah. Okay. Well, I love that we are so merged like this. We're so similar in that our people do want us to come together. However, full transparency. As I was letting you know, that whole Roman Emperor Empire thing as it went off, I was one of those people sadly googling, what the hell Does Roman Empire mean. And I still am not clear what it means. What does it mean?

It's white boys obsessed with concrete.

Yes. Okay. That's what I thought it was. And that's why I didn't get it. I still didn't get it. Everybody is saying. Everybody loves to say the collab. Like, best TT Duet team. Oh, my God, I love both of you. The collab I've been dying for. So this is the Roman Empire. I get it now.

Talk the. And you clean up the. You know what I mean? Like, we kind of have.

You just wrote the slogan for this episode. Thank you. That should be the title. Can I put in the title?

I don't know. Just do a little asterisk. Yeah, but that's what. But that's essentially like, what happens is. Is blind items and PR kind of are fascinating because blind items are the precursor for necessary pr. You know what I mean? I mean, not all of the time, but blind items are typically events or like, situations or facts about celebrities that aren't publicly known yet.

Yes.

Could potentially be made public or some aspect or some byproduct of whatever the thing is in the blind could be made public. So it's like publicists and PR people love blind items because it's like, what do we need to know about before we need to know about it kind of thing.

Oh, I love how you said that. And also, my fascinate. Well, one, I've been following blind gossip blind items my whole life. Okay.

I just remember being in, like, middle school and reading his shit and being like, who the fuck is toothy tile?

Jake Gyllenhaal was Jake Gyllenhaal.

Yeah, he was. Yeah.

Okay. I think maybe I did know that, but yeah. Wait, allegedly?

Yes.

God, you just tapped a part of my brain I have not thought about in years. Toothy tile. Oh, my gosh.

A whole generation of Gen Xers that, like, follow me. That I love, that we just always relish in the Ted Casablanca line items. Yes.

It was a moment. Yeah, it was a moment. It was Ted. And then also Page Six was big gossip.

And.

Yes. And blank. All of it.

There's a lot of British pop blogs that I will pull stuff from. Like, I love the British blogs.

Oh, we have so much to talk about that we have to just Stuff in here. Yeah. So just to touch on what you were saying, since I work in as a seasoned public relations professional who specializes in crisis communication, I look to blind items of blind gossip as a strategic tool used by public. Look at it as A PR tool. And so I know people like to poo poo it, dismiss it, but when I see blind gossip, to me that's an official. An unofficial, official source. Right.

My followers oftentimes with blind items, there'll be a one off blind item. How realistic or how likely or how truthful do you think this is? You know what I mean, when it comes to blind items. And so I've turned my focus a lot on the pattern of behaviors in blind items. So I'm always like one or two blind items. But if you see three to six blind items with the same type of behavior over a period of months, you can pretty much guarantee that there's some legitimacy to that. For example.

Yes. Oh, exactly. Okay, so before we dive on that, that would have been a great launching point. But we have to give people context about you first. I think that's really important. See, I connect with you on such a level because one, I love you. You're crazy. I love you. But you're so. You are wicked smart. You are smart people kind of poo poo what I do, but you can distill blind gossip, content creators, the whole language of social media if you get people who understand it. It takes a smart person to understand that you're amazing. Okay, so you live though. And one of the things I love about you is that you were a D1 lacrosse player. I just love that. Yes, yes, I know. See, and prep school mom here, I'm just drawn to people like you.

I think that's why people think like, people are always like, you're so intense. And it's like. Yes, because I was like, born intense. Yeah, like, yeah. And also like being a female athlete, the closest thing a lot of us get to professional sports is playing Division 1 lacrosse.

Or.

Sorry, division. Yeah, but like, and then I played a bit after college and I used to coach and stuff like that because I really just enjoyed. I just had the shittiest coaches growing up, shittiest teachers. And I just feel like there's probably a lot of Kyle's out there that feel like I did when I was little. So I'd like to get back to that at some point. Again, like, it's a. It's definitely a 180 from what I'm doing now. But I just. But I have some of the kids that I used to coach that follow me. Like they're adults now and it's just like, cool.

Oh, I bet. Oh, they probably absolutely love that. Okay, so now. And now the only thing I'm going To ask you about the job is. So just tell me quickly, how did you get into the. Tell me first. Tick tock. When did you join TikTok? When did you decide what your brand was going to be? Because everybody starts and they kind of just move around and they land somewhere. Yeah.

I feel like a lot of people have been coming me, like, trying to start, establish a TikTok was like, I'm not a content advisor. You know, like, there's people that sell that services. But it was just. So I just liked TikTok because I felt like, well, you know, it always makes me want to do something when people in power tell you not to do it.

Okay, all right. Yes.

It started like a few years ago. I remember there was just a headline, right? It was, donald Trump set to ban TikTok when he was president. And I was like, okay, wait, Donald Trump wants to make something illegal. Whatever that something is, it's probably either going to college using accurate interest rates on your appraisals for insurance and TikTok. So that was honestly, like, I just have an issue with authority. And that was. That was it. Like, that was the best ad for TikTok I've ever seen. I'm like, donald Trump wants to ban it. That means that there's probably knowledge and information being shared on there. So immediately. So.

Trump wants to ban it.

I'm on it again.

Let's go.

Enemy is my friend is like my favorite quote when it comes to anything. Like, I don't have any friends, I just have enemies of my enemy.

Oh, my God. I think that quote was actually in my first book. That is so funny. We are so similar. Okay, so now then. Then just tell me this. I'm curious. You are the one. And even if people are listening right now and they don't see you on the screen, you are the woman you're so identifiable on.

Yeah, I definitely use my likeness for Ivanka's Trump court image yesterday. Everyone's like, they're using your face.

I saw that. That was very funny. That was very, very funny. But you are. Not only do you have. I mean, you have this beautiful face, you have this, you know, the striking blonde hair. But of two things. So one, you're the. Okay, can you say it for me? Your tagline, you want more?

I'll give you more.

Okay, where did that come from?

Honestly, Ms. Britney Jean Spears. Okay, so give me more. So in it she goes, you want more? Well, give you more.

Stop.

So I watched her VMAs performance after she was put in the conservatorship. And I just remember I'm not a fan of anyone except Britney Spears till the day I die. Oh, she's the reason I'm bisexual. I credit Britney Spears entirely with my bisexuality. I got her calendar in 2002, and it was just on my wall, and I was like, I think I like girls.

Oh, because you loved Britney?

Because I love Britney. And then it was like, okay, okay. And I kept loving Britney and then more people that looked like Britney, like, had boobies, too. And I was like, I think it's. Boobies are my thing. It was after that, and I watched that performance and I just wanted to, like, hug her. I might. I might get emotional because. Yeah, I just saw the way that.

Sorry.

I don't know. I'm crying about Britney Spears.

Don't cry. Did you read her book? You obviously.

I haven't read a book. No, I don't do.

Because you don't want to.

I don't want to because I'll get mad. Because I know it's not. Yeah, yeah.

The whole Britney Spears thing. Two weeks ago, I did a podcast on that where she's doing the long game. Justin Timberlake, who just leveraged and used her. And the press, everybody who treated her that way. It's awful.

Yeah. And then Janet Jackson, too. That's the only thing, is that.

Yes, he did Janet Jackson.

That was when I watched live TV, and that's when, like, TiVo came out. I remember that super bowl was the Super Bowl I'd ever seen on TiVo. My friend from. Yes, from high school, his parents were actually the ambassadors to Sweden, and they had, like, this huge house that the Clintons were over upstairs or something. Allegedly. But we were watching, and I was like, was that a nipple? And they're like, yeah, wait, we can rewind it. I'm like, you can rewind it.

I know.

I had TiVo.

Isn't that funny?

TiVo needs to send Janet Jackson, like, a gift. Thank you for your nipple. Because that made TiVo what it is today. I know.

That made TiVo. Yeah. So you just encapsulated your entire being that you went. You talked about Britney Spears, Janet Jackson, the nipple slip. And then you said, you know, my friend, his son, you know, he's the son of the passer to Sweden. I mean, that is so you. All right, so now that's where you got that. That's great. Now, when you went on TikTok, how did you decide? Okay. Because I know a lot of people. I've seen creators who want to be like blind gossip people. They'll just start reading it. And some people, you know, okay, it's not going to work, but some people takes off now. When did you decide to do blind gossip?

Well, okay, so do you remember the Johnny Depp Amber Heard trial?

No, I have no recollection of it whatsoever.

I blacked out that entire. Oh my God.

If I ever bring up Johnny Depp or Amber Heard, I get assaulted by both sides. So yes, I have trauma from it.

I'm in the middle.

I'm the.

I reported on every day. I'm like, I'm just living in that. The only person I will assault is Netflix for literally stealing all of my fellow content creators content and not paying them and then putting that in their documentary that they aired during the SAG strike. Like little assholes.

I saw. I saw you talk about that. Yeah.

I just have a big issue with people stealing my content and my friends content. My fellow creators content. I know someone is suing Netflix over that document documentary now though.

Oh, good. Stealing. They absolutely should. Yeah, they absolutely should. But what is it? When did you segue into blind gossip?

So it was honestly, how much information is to information? Because I'm about to get very personal into some.

Well, it's not about too much information. About time, because we have so much we have to get to. Okay.

I just always had an interest in their relationship because Johnny Depp and Amber Heard allegedly did a lot of cocaine together. Johnny Depp was in Blow. Amber Heard was the hottest girl I knew in Hollywood. So it's just like all of the things and then their blind items are so fudgeing juicy. So I'm watching the trial and I'm like, you guys, wait. I know what they're talking about with the ping pong balls and all this shit. And so after the trial, people want. Everyone wanted to talk about it still, right? And they're like, Kyle, wait, you mentioned this? And I'm like, well, there's actually a blind item that talks about this specific night. And they're like. So then I started organically bringing up Johnny Depp and Amber Heard. That's literally the first playlist on my account. Says Johnny Depp, Amber Heard.

Oh, and you're good at it because you of your photographic mind and your memory, you could re have instant recall on these stories.

I think that's a lot of it was that I was literally either streaming the thing or putting out things. I was like, you guys, wait. Actually, I know about this. And they would kind of reference stuff in court, but then have a sidebar. You know what I mean? Like, they didn't want certain things. Yeah, it's like, bring it up, bring it up, bring it up. And so that was when. So it kind of organically took off after that. Right.

All right. Thank you. So now for everyone listening. Now. Now you make some. Kyle. Okay.

Okay.

So we had to get the background all the way because it's not. It's not as juicy. But I think it's important because the context of you fascinates me. But also just blind gossip in general. Now tell me who you follow. Like, who are your favorite blind gossip creators? And actually, before you do that, define what blind gossip is. I get asked that question all the time.

A blind item.

So that's.

The other thing is people are like, what percentage of your blind ends are true? I'm like, the point is, is that I put a thing on the top and I write blind item underneath. So you guys know that a blind item is an unconfirmed piece of gossip. Okay?

Period.

That's it.

Okay.

It's like, literally. And it means that the person that the subject that it's about has not said, yes, this is true. Yes, it's basically. You know what I mean? And then usually also, the blind item is that it doesn't reveal the person. But I have been reading these for so long that, duh.

And then some are so obvious.

And I also get them direct from sources, and they'll say, like, it's this person. It's like, no, it's this person. You know what I mean? To the person who doesn't see this 3, 000 times a day, every day, they would have an idea, but they wouldn't know. But a blind item is just literally an unconfirmed piece of gossip.

It's.

They've been around for probably decades. Thousands of years.

I mean. No. Yeah. Well, in theory. In theory, yes. Thousands of years. People think it's new, but it's been around. For what? My background on my Patreon PR Confidential is Confidential magazine, you know, that had blind.

Yeah, yeah. Like, literally, I pull up blind Items from the 20s, from the 1920s, 1910s. And also, like, my favorite thing, I'm a history dork. Like, I have a history minor, among other things.

Of course you do. Why wouldn't you?

I'm obsessed with US History, Specifically, my dog's name is Alexander Hamilton. Not after the musical. Not after the fucking. I hate musicals. But it was because the culprit spiring in the Revolutionary War, the United States 13 colonies. Maryland was one of those. We won the Revolutionary War because of France, but France needed to be convinced to join. And what did we get? We got gossip. Someone got literally a receipt from King George saying, send it to the French king. That's where it was the culprit. Spiring, just exchanged gossip. That's all it was. That's how we found out Benedict Arnold was a traitor. They said Benedict Arnold is a trainer, sent it off and someone just happened to believe that. So that's where the thing is, is that gossip is so critical. And I feel like the reason why people like to just because they think it's like a woman's thing. But it goes back to neolithic times. We used gossip as a way to protect ourselves. We would be out collecting things all day, right. With other women and we would share stories about who's dangerous, which areas are dangerous, which animals. Yeah, we bring it back to the.

So you're talking about the necessity of gossip of blind items. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, now, what would you say when you read and you're like, me, we've been reading it forever. What percentage would you give to the items that you read are true or partially true or intentionally placed? Oh, in other words, what's the truth factor? Percentage.

Those are very different things because.

Yes, okay.

I've had very different experiences versus what I get submitted to me and then what I find online on like, let's.

Start with online first. Like when you look at Spitball.

Yeah. Like Crazy days. Okay, I'll use that because I would say 60 of my blind names are like Crazy Days and Nights. I want to say.

Okay, and that's nt lawyers attached to Crazy Days and Nights.

Yes.

Okay. Yes.

And I like typically be like, okay, because I'll sometimes get a blind item and I'll say this is what I have. And then I'll say this is what Crazy Days and nights has on the same subject. Because sometimes we'll get like corroborating blind items. Sometimes I'll get a blind item that's more information off of like what was already put on crazy. You know what I mean? But I would say crazy is nights. Like, I mean, the fact of the matter is Blinding is an unconfirmed piece of gossip. And there are dozens of of blind items that are posted daily for me to say, to give an estimate over time. The problem is that some of those things are very true, but there's only like one way to confirm whether or not it's true. You know, digging up a body or like getting a d You know what I mean? So. So it's just some of those, some of those are just out of the realm of possibility, But I'd say 80% of them can be proven or disproven and I'd say of those 80%, 65 to 70% end up proving true.

Yeah. So I mean, because that is. You were saying, how do you know?

Right.

Yeah, but we know sometimes because they're revealed.

Yeah.

And they reveal itself in time. Not that you would know this though, but you're not anti lawyer. But I know that NT lawyer and I remember. I don't know, I don't even know if he still does it, But I remember 15 years ago, 10 years ago, every New Year's I think he would do all the big reveals.

Yeah.

Was that New Year's? Am I right?

He does that weekly now.

Yeah, I notice it now. It's more frequent. More frequent, yeah. So how, how does a blind. As a creator, how can you do a reveal without worrying about getting sued? Do you know how that works? I know. I mean, I guess if he were on here we'd ask him.

But yeah, I mean, well, first of all, it's like alleged, but also putting a blind item, it's like saying what it is. I'm not saying this is a fact. This is the truth. This is a blind item.

Oh, it's still considered blinded. But do you do reveals at all? You know, NC Lawyer, he would say there'd be the blind item that had been there forever and then underneath in italics would be the name. I just like the reveal.

Well, I just do corrections. If I know. If I think I know the blind item and I share it and I say it's this person and then NT Lawyer reveals it and I'm wrong, then I'll do a correction. But I haven't really had to.

You haven't do that yet, right?

Well, no, I've had to issue a few corrections probably like I want to say over the last 18 months, maybe five total where I've guessed wrong, but I make 10 to 20 TikToks a day. Like that's. That's not bad.

You're so prolific. Oh my gosh.

That's the pattern recognition. You know what I mean? Like I've read, I've been reading these since 2007, so it's just like after that time it's like, oh. But what I've noticed with myself is now that I'm doing them online all the time, it's like, like I don't share blind Them because it's like, duh. But I'm like, I stopped thinking like the average person, you know, I mean, like. Like, someone will be like, kyle, why don't you talk about this? I'm like, because they're like, no, not everyone knows. And I'm like, oh, you know, And I've also replaced some people as tmz. They're just done with. And I also. I use TMZ articles and pick apart their grammar, their content, and page six so people get all that news for me. So I've had to, like, slow myself down and be like, I need to. I mean, that's where I was a writing major. So I've learned about content clues. And I was an auditor. Nothing teaches you about lining up the receipts and the proof and the evidence faster than getting your cpa.

Well, I'm thinking there's. You should be an adjunct. There's a college course. Oh, my God.

That's. My dream is to be a college professor. Oh, my God.

Oh, I was just. I was just speaking to. I was speaking to my alma mater today because I had to take the semester off anyway from teaching. But it's fun. I get so much. One of my favorite teaching moments, honestly, is I was in the class and we. We did a big. I don't know, we talk about everything, and they know that I was on TikTok and then one of my favorite page, who actually kind of reminds me of you. She looks like you. She said, well, you know, Tom Brady and Giselle are getting divorced. I said, what now? Come on. I'm outside of Boston. I'm at college there. And I said, what are you talking about? And she said, it's right here. It's right. I went, oh, so it's like students dropping, you know, items on me. I love it. That's my kind of classroom. Let's talk about Tom Brady and Giselle.

Yeah. Like, I want to, like, tell publicists. Oh, my God, there's so many. So many celebrities, publicists, and PR teams where I'm like, you guys should just hire me as a consultant, because you should. Because it is so easy just from, like, the end user side to be like, stop using this language. I'm a writer, too. I want to scream every time.

Okay, give me an example. Give me an example. That something that drives you nuts.

They remain the best of friends. They're very much in buzz. The split remains amicable. No Hollywood split is ever amicable unless it's a beard contract, period.

You know what, Kyle? You and I could Go into business together and do celebrity crisis pr. We would be a team or just.

Be like, hey, publicist, here's how to fix that mistake too, because so many publicists are sleeping on their job.

So in one of my interviews, and someone just asked me about that, and I don't want to give too much because as I told you, this will be revealed soon in a book that you're going to be in is. Oh, God, I. I just lost it. Oh, I think publicity. And for publicists now, the game's changed. They've used the same thing for decades.

And that's what social media has changed it. And that's where I feel like I worked in. So I was an audience. For example, electronic banking systems. Okay. And I can just see how, like, it goes from the experts to out the back end users to the front. So, like, social media publicists aren't the back end users. We are.

Yes.

Who are these writers at Page Six? Who are these writers at tmz? Who are these publicists? Who are these.

Oh, you want to know the writing? Okay. Oh, God, I'm getting ahead of myself. But you and I didn't talk about this beforehand, but now I think we kind of have to. You don't have to reveal all of it, but the writing bugaboo that I had with publicists was Joe Jonas's ring camera. And on tmz when it said Joe saw slash and or heard like, nobody talks like that. Nobody says slash thing.

I mean, I was awful. So call JoJo Jonas, Sophie Turner thing. That's the one thing, though, where I was approached ahead of time before in July.

Okay. With Kyle. I think the reason why we are the Roman Empire of so many people is because you were talking about. You and I were both talking about the backside secret. You and I were both calling them out.

The JoJo Jonas. Yes.

You and I were both using our spidey senses to be. Boil it out. So you notice it though, because people are coming to you.

Well, first of all, this is where I rely on my photographic memory and my years of reading blind items. But I will say the one thing I'm a fan of besides Britney Spears is Game of Thrones. Okay? I didn't watch TV until like 2013. Literally didn't have a TV growing up. Didn't own a TV in college. I don't have one again now. But I watched Game of Thrones all seasons back to front, at least probably nine or ten times in my adult life, which is so embarrassing to admit. That's how much like, free time that I don't spend with friends. I spend it watching Game of Thrones. But Sansa Stark is one of my favorite characters. But I also watched Sophie Turner grow up in front of me. Like, that's the thing, is that. Yeah. And I know Game of Thrones. There's just a lot of stuff about the set there. Okay. There's, like, so much. And so I just always had a soft spot because I loved. I mean, Sansa Stark's character arc is just. Just incredible. My Queen of the North. But it was also. I watched her progression. I read her blind items from when she was 14 to when she's now 27. And she's also allegedly bisexual, too. So there was just, like, a lot of things where.

Really? Yeah. Oh, is that in a blind.

Yeah, that's in a lot of blinds. And so. But that was the thing is, I was like, oh, my God, I love Sophie Turner. She's just so smart. She's so this, she's so that. But also, like. And I love. I'm also very into the cinematic aspects and the acting aspects of everything. I wanted to be an actress this, but I have such bad stage fright. But so I just got really into. Also, like, her acting maturity, too. Anyway, so obviously I was a fan of Sophie Turner, and I've also read all of her blind items, and I've listened to, like, Kelly and Troy on beyond the Blinds, for example.

Yeah.

Two of my favorite blind end creators. Okay. I've listened to them do Jonas Brothers blind items. I've read them, I've heard them.

And there's history there.

There's Shannon on Fluently Forward. Might have done a Game of Thrones podcast episode.

Okay.

So it's like, I had. If there's anything I knew it was because I never understood Joe Jonas. He's, like, my age. And I just never got it. I never got the Jonas Brothers thing. Like, maybe it's because I'm Jewish and purity rings just, like, aren't, you know, I mean, we believe in testing the car out before you buy it here.

So do Catholics kind of behind the scenes.

Yeah. You don't tell anyone. And so it was just like, I'm.

Like, what is she?

She seems so cool and she's so tall. What is she doing with this guy? You know? I just never got it. I would read their blind items, and it'd always be like, oh, Joe uses Sophie to cruise for a third. Joe uses Sophie to pick up girls. Girls. Because, okay, no one wants to. The Jonas Brother. Everyone wants to the queen of the north, to put it bluntly. But so.

Oh, wow. So wait, did you just drop something? There's blinds. On Joe Jonas being by.

No, on Sophie being by. But cruising for thirds for a third woman. Oh, okay.

Now, that's right. Okay.

Yeah. So that's why you into it as someone who loves women.

Yeah.

Cruising for. No kidding. But all of the blind ends. And they were about that. Or they're about Joe cheating on Sophie. Okay.

Yes. Okay.

And they're about Sophie also. This is the thing. And again, I have, like, a very emotional person. I'm about to get my period literally anytime today or tomorrow. So I might start crying about this, because this is the part that bothered me the most, was Sophie has actually been very vocal about her postpartum struggle with depression and body image. I spoke to you. I lost. I lost a daughter eight months pregnant. I struggled with postpartum depression. It made me suicidal for the, you know, first time. And I have struggled with that to this day. So I just. When I read stories, especially when women and celebrities are, like, so upfront about it and are like, I'm struggling with this. I continue. And I have struggled, but there was, like, bland. It was about him body shaming her when she didn't want to go to an event because she literally just given birth two weeks before she's like. And he got to the event. He's like, I can't believe Sophie wouldn't come. Like, all this stuff. So it was just like, whoa. Okay. And I also know just Joe Jonas from Dating Taylor Swift. Like, he's my age, you know? Yeah. And I just. I'm like, yes, this guy. I've never heard a good thing about this guy except when it comes to riding children's rides. The best thing about him is he's five, six, and can, like, you know, get on the table.

Hey, this is coming out of the blue now. I have to ask you this. So now that we're on the Jonas, I. I don't even know if we've lost our listeners yet, but I don't think we have because I think people's brains work like ours. Okay. Jonas Brothers 10 years ago, 11, 15. I don't know.

Yeah.

When Kevin Jonas got married, the wife from. They're both in New Jersey. She's just a regular Danielle. Regular person.

I think they're high school sweethearts. Something.

Okay. Something like the pregnancy. The pregnancy. Do you remember the first one? How they said it was fake? And they were. They did all the. Their articles out there, you know, Breaking down how? She had a pillow in there.

Really?

Am I. Am I telling you something you don't know?

To be honest, Molly, like, when I say I am not a fan of the Jonas Brothers, like, when I saw.

Those periods, I'm not a fan.

I'm not a fan kind of guys I bullied, okay. In high school, I got off to bullying those guys. I couldn't even entertain the existence of the Jonas Brothers without demeaning my, like, ego, you know? So I. Okay, well, I don't know.

Before algorithms were a thing, this is just a whole website stuff. For some. For some reason, I just went into the deep hole of. Is Danielle Jonas's first baby real or not? I don't know. Maybe it's because I was having kids at the time.

Okay, I'm gonna have to look up the Danielle Jonas pregnancy thing just because there's so much part of my French bullshit. And I've learned this since the divorce. Allegedly, Denise Jonas. Allegedly. Okay. Is just like the monster in law.

Like Mom Jonas.

Yeah. Like the Mama Jonas, the momager from hell. Just to anyone else.

Oh.

So I know this, though, for example, if you want to talk about fake things. So I know that. Remember how everyone was like, joe and Sophie aren't getting divorced. Sophie was just at the concert, like, so happy because I had gotten. So this is how it all lined up. I got in, contacted back in July that they're, like, heading for a split and this. And he didn't file until September 5th, right?

Yes. Okay, so hold on. So now we're in July. Someone contacts you. Give us the context of who contacts you.

I can't give you any kind about who it was, but it was someone on the inside. And they. They started. They said they knew me, though. They were like, they knew you.

And this is Inside Team Jonas.

I think it may have been someone from Inside Team Jonas. I don't know. We don't know. Yeah, we don't know. But.

But it seemed reliable to you?

Well, the information. That's the thing. That was the red flag. So the first thing is that they. I've never been approached like this, where they knew. So you know how I just told you I'm a Game of Thrones fan? Da, da, da. I've said that to my followers on Lives before, and I've talked about it. I don't have a lot of TV shows that I watch, so the ones that I do watch, like House of the Dragon, Game of Thrones, so people who followed me would know that's one of the qualities about me. And I've talked about that, but it was like this person started out with, listen, I know that you're biased and you're biased for Sophie Turner because she is a bisexual woman in Game of Thrones is your favorite show.

Excuse me, What? Right.

It was that. It was that off the bat, where it was like, wow, that is a lot of audacity. And that is not how you approach me. But that rubbed me the wrong way.

Bold.

Because it's also, like, whether or not I like Game of Thrones has nothing to do with how I report blind items. I mean, it, like, might factor into the bit and the entertainment, but they're.

Letting you know perhaps how reliable they are and that. Yeah. That they researched you and they were like.

So I know it's going to take some convincing.

Okay.

When something is what it is, I don't have to be convinced by anyone. I will see it. And then eventually I'll say, huh.

Well, here's the trick, Kyle. So this is the stuff that I dissect when I see this. So let's say their mindset, what they're doing is they're trying to bait you, right? They're saying, we've invested in you because we think you are reliable. We think that your fans follow you. We respect you. So they're trying to, like, shine you up.

Okay. Because that's what.

To drop you.

So that's why it ends up. Up working out in the inverse so aggressively.

But they didn't know you, Right?

Yeah, well, that's what I mean is that they. They said all these things to me, but they didn't know that, like, the first thing is, don't tell me what not to do, because that is the only thing to it. Like, hello, Donald Trump and Dick Tock. Like, literally, tell me what I'm not allowed to do. It was like, when I found out I couldn't drink, it was like, oh, my God. And then as soon as I turned 21, I was like, this is not fun anymore. Like, I'm over there, you know?

Yes. Okay. So they come to you now? Did they give it to you?

I get so pissed off when people, like, make these blank, like, tell me these blanketed assumptions about me. To me, it's like, yes, keep that to yourself. Okay.

Okay. So that was her first mistake. Okay. Where did they. Can you say where they tried to reach you? Was it in your DMs?

It was my DMs. Yeah.

Okay. And tick tock.

And it was like, the fact that they Said I was biased towards Sophie Turner because I'm a Game of Thrones fan. And it's like, that's not why. But, like, okay, that means I'm a fan of Sansa Stark, but that has nothing to do with the actual. Anyway, but that.

That.

So it was. And that I would take some convincing. And then they started out and that they didn't know to, like, what degree I had no respect for Joe Jonas. That's the thing is, I went into this, and I wasn't the biggest. So, I mean, I was a big Sophie Turner fan, but I wasn't a Stan. I didn't check on her daily. And what they did was, it was convert me. They radicalized me, Molly. I became like, a Sophie Turner terrorist. I pledged my loyalty to House Sansa Stark, and I said, I'm gonna die for the Queen of North. But it really, like, I felt like I. I got weaponized like a Game of Thrones character. You know what I mean? I was like, Tyrion Lannister, like. Or Tywin Lannister. That's it. But. Or Cersei. Cersei's more accurate. But anyway, so they started going off, though, telling me all of these stories about how there's going to be criminal allegations and criminal charges probably being brought against Sophie Turner in all of these different European countries, like Romania. I'm like, for what? And they're like. Like, for sexually assaulting underage escorts. And I was like, wait, Sophie Turner, who's been a mom. Okay. For, like, the last four or five years, Right? Like, I knew she had a wild teenager hood and early 20s, but she's been a mom. And there's been a pandemic. She's going to be criminally charged in Bulgaria and Romania for sexual.

Yeah. The most abs. We're gonna go to the most obscure, like, might as well say, like, Transylvania. Like, where you can't. Proven.

One of my best friends went on a hooker tour in all of Europe. And I do know that the hookers in Romania do not sue. They don't even make you wear a condom. They underestimated. Oh, my God. Of course.

Oh, my God. You're hysterical. You are hysterical. Okay.

But then it was like. Yeah. So.

Wow.

Saying that Sophie. They were saying Sophie Turner drugs young women to get them to have a. And forces them to have threesomes with her and Joe Jonas. And it's like. You know what's so weird is that there are blind items that, like, literally almost say this exact same thing. But it's been.

I was Just gonna say that they were coming close to true stories, but they were twisting it against her.

Yeah, but it was like also weird. Cuz I'm like, this is so weird because in July I had already read any and every Sophie Turner blinded him that ever existed. Okay? Every Game of Thrones blinded ever existed. And then every Joe Jonas, Sophie Turner blinded him every. Because like this little short fucker is cheating on her. This little short fuck is telling people that he's like in an open marriage. Like this little short five foot, small six is doing this to my Queen of the North. Anyway, sorry, I had to go. I was really angry.

Oh my gosh. Okay, so did they say anything else?

It was paragraphs, Molly. It was paragraphs over days of them.

And I was really.

And that was also the same source that told me Hailey Bieber's pregnant. And I shared that. So that's where I know that this source was not credible because they started to drop bombs that turned out to literally be the opposite of true. So that's why I'm like confidently saying, whoever this person is, it didn't work. But also your information is shit. And next time you try and trick someone, like, okay, wait, wait, wait, wait.

Wait, wait one second. So were they giving you items before they were priming you? In other words?

First they primed me with the Joseph and then I wasn't biting. They're like, what? And they kept saying, well, once you get comfortable with the information, I know it's a lot to wrap your head around. I know that you've been a big Sophie Turner fan. I know that you think I know that you've watched Game of Thrones and.

It was like it's all manipulation. It was trying to manipulate.

So. But it was so like, what's the term? Not placating, but like that kind of thing where it's just like, yeah, I'm a blunt, direct person. It's like, I don't need. I don't need time. Like information is information. The fact of the matter is, is this is the first time I'm hearing any of this. And the way that you are literally writing me paragraphs, like when that's not how I get information. Like, I hate when people send me, by the way, I hate when people send me 40 page essays when it's like, I just want the teacher. I don't need. I don't need your. Your entire backstory, just send me the tea. But that's what this.

Okay, so this is what we're gonna do here now. Yeah, so Just. So tell me then how do you. Okay, so you first read blind gossip that you get from other places that you source and you say where you're reading from. So you. It's like a compilation. Yeah, like you're an aggregator. You're like a blind gossip aggregator.

Yeah, but then I also probably get at least daily, I probably get 5 to 10 emails DMs of. That's why I'm also like, I get so exhausted and so over stimulated because then, then I have over half a million followers on TikTok and all of these other people and it's like you guys don't understand like how many people I am talking to per day. I won't remember like one of my followers name. She's like, I literally talked to you two weeks ago. I'm like, I have over half a million followers, but I had conversations with 86 different people by email today that all have like names that I'm supposed to know which Matthew you were or which Sarah you.

I know, I know it is hard.

It is hard to keep get contacted and that's why like I also. But I'll get like DMs from people, but then I'll get. There's DMs and I'm like, I look for certain sources that I need DMS from because I know that they're feeding me.

Okay, so do you know then. So let's just go here then to this part. So when people are dropping things to you, can you tell when someone is a publicist or someone is just like a friend of a friend or they heard something, do you know by language? Are there clues there? Or you get the same, same thing over and over.

Yeah, pretty much. When it's. Well also like I'll get a lot of the times when it's something that I'm not going to share. It's because by the time they get to me it's like I already know this. Like, you know what I mean? That's where it's. I can tell it's like not a publicist or not a PR person because look, this was three years ago. You know what I mean? So that's okay. Yeah, so it's a lot of that. Or also people don't understand. Like I do blind item deep dives where I'll go back and read years of blind items. But I don't deep dive people and I don't deep dive. They're like media. Because all of tmz, I'm not gonna go, I'm not Gonna do a bibliography on TMZ articles. Are you serious? So people, like, I'll do a blind item deep dive, or I'll do a blind item on celebrity, and then I'll get like, 40 emails from people. Well, one time I met the celebrity at the coffee shop, and they were this and that. It's like, holy. You know what I mean? So it's just that they don't understand too, that, like, I'll. I'll report on a topic. And I like to move, keep moving, because I have ADHD and I'm not. Like I said, I'm not a stand or a fan of anything. Yeah. Like, the only thing I think I consistently come back to is probably Taylor Swift, but that's because.

Oh, wait, Taylor Swift. Okay. Before we talk about Taylor Swift, though, I just want to finish this blind awesome stuff. So just so we can end on the blind gossip part, because I get asked about blind items all the time.

You should send. And you should get a finder's fee for sending them to me.

Yeah, well, I. Oh, I had a good. Yeah, I should.

I should start, like, a little business, you know, Molly. Literally.

Yeah, I get some good ones. I do get. I get some good ones. I will say I get some good ones as well. But you can identify, like, when you get information, you can spot, which is really from a publicist, that's more like spin. Like someone is trying to make you think something as opposed to that's being weaponized, maybe. Or it's. It's like propaganda or it's like pr.

I would say, though, that's more. I'm a lot less surface level than that. I will look at. I look at things like context clues, like grammar mechanics.

Like what? Give me an example.

Vocabulary word, context clues. Like I said, I'm a writer, so I look for how things are written. And that's. I think that that's my brand, is that it's that kind of stuff. Because I can also pick up on emotion in writing. So I can tell. You know what I mean? I can tell who it's coming from.

And what the intent is. If it's revenge, the JoJo. If it's something else.

For example, that's what I picked up on. Besides the fact that it matched all of the blind items about Joe and not Sophie. And I was like, you're literally ripping off the years. Or the blind items about.

About. So Joe.

But it was the vocabulary in the language. Because I'm like, people who just have publicists and PR people who just have Tea that they want me to spill. They spill the tea and they move the on and they said to do. Then they check and see that I spilled it. Sometimes they'll send me an email, say thank you. Because I know that there's a certain blind item creator that only reads blinds that she gets paid for. And she's also like a trust fund baby, a Nepo baby. I'm not that I'm self made. I've never gotten paid for for a blind item ever. But that's where though is like. But that also takes the burden off me. I don't have to report everything that I get and I don't because some shit too. That's the other thing is that it's interesting you brought that up. I get information that it's like, I know. Like when Ariana Grande went through a whole debacle with, you know, the Ethan Slater.

Wait, which one? Okay, we're on Ethan Slater. Okay, all right. Her most recent one, you mean?

Okay, so the Ethan Slater thing. And I did a blind and a deep dive on Ariana, Ariana Grande. And I was one, I think broke.

That story on TikTok.

Just like all of it.

Oh yeah, I bet.

And I had been talking about, I'm like, Ariana Grande and Dalton Gomez are like split up, like since January. Like I had. And I'd gotten so much shit for months. But it was interesting because I'd been saying, I'm like, I think Dalton Gomez and Ariana Grande split up.

This is in January. Now, did you know that yourself or did someone tell you that?

Well, there were blind names. But then I did, someone reached out to me and.

Okay.

And they told me something that was like very important information for me to know going forward. That's where I do have a little, a little bit of kind. Like, I know everyone went hard on Ariana Grande, but there was information that I received. I'm not going to ever say it publicly that I was like, okay, I'm going to critique, you know, this situation, but I don't need to be like egregiously mean, personally mean to Ariana Grande because there was an extenuating circumstances that may have affected her behavior. You know what I mean? I held a little empathy for her, right? And it was just interesting because after I finished the deep dive, I got like all of these emails and I actually talked about this, I think previously where I got an email this A minus slash D minus list, former tweener. And it's like, okay, right off the bat, I know that you're trying to insult by calling her. She's not Never been D minus list will never be D minus. Literally. Literally. And it's like, you don't even have to like her. Anyone who's anyone knows that. So it's like right off the bat, delete. And it was like something horrible mean about Ariana Grande. And it's like, I'm not here to talk personal shit about sleep celebrities. I'm here to just sanitary blind items.

So, Kyle, I have a list of questions and comments from people because I had asked, what do you want to ask, Kyle? And I put it on Instagram Stories, also put it on TikTok. And I did notice that one of the questions, I thought it was a good question. It was framed not in a nice way, but I'm going to make it nice. You have a very distinctive look. And when I did a duet with you to promote our conversation, ask questions, and I put the duet on and it automatically gave me the Bold filter, which I've never used Now. I was feeling pretty crusty when I was filming anyway. I thought, why am I even doing this next to her? Like, she's so cute. But then I had the Bold Glamour. I went, whoa, look at me. I could only do it for a couple minutes. But the Bold Glamour. Now I thought perhaps you used it as a disguise. Because me, I look totally different. Like I'm unrecognizable.

I use it because every other app is stealing my content, especially every other app is stealing my content, especially Snapchat. And this way, if you see the Bold Glamour filter, because everyone knows me as it now on TikTok. You do not see that there. It is a TikTok account that is stealing my content. It is a snap. It is Snapchat. Snapchat, literally. I turned off my downloads because my con. I get. I get emails and DMS every day. Every single day from tons of people being like, kyle, did you know Snapchat ripped off another thing. Did you know eu. Oh, if you don't see the Bold Glamour filter on there, you know it's not my original video.

No, it's not yours. Oh, it's counterfeit.

Don't watch it. Give me the view.

Don't watch it. Okay, all right, good. That's the PSA for. For your content right now. We're in late fall. What is the number one question you're getting right now from your comments?

Actually, Molly, I was berated by my followers to bring this up rated.

Oh, okay.

Yeah, because they're like, if this is the only thing anyone wants to hear about from both.

Okay, tell me.

Travis Kelsey's publicist blocked me, but also Travis Kelsey's publicist. And also just the clown face thing. They need to hear our take on it. I was like. Because I told my followers. I'm like, listen, I'm. I'm going to be talking to Molly McPherson. This is a Roman Empire type situation. But this was a big deal. And I have a lot of. I'm a swifty, but I have a lot of swifty this morning. But that they were like, we need to hear you talk about this, Molly McPherson. Because also, like, you're a very respected publicist. And I can't say that all of the other publicists are as respected as you are and that some, Some, some might suggest that they wish that you were Travis Kelsey's publicist instead.

Just. Oh, some may have suggested that. It's so funny. Okay, I love this because now, just for a timestamp, I was off TikTok for like five days because I had to go home. My dad was sick, and then he passed away. And so I was out on this window. And when I came back into TikTok, everything was PIA. Everything was okay.

That was the. Yeah.

Okay. So now I. I haven't spoken about pia, though I did tell people I would talk about it now on my Patreon Live. I did talk about pia. So some people have heard my. My take on it. Now I'm going to be very interested and I hope, because last week I spoke at PRSA in Rochester. It was a Northeast District conference. So it's all the PRs, you know, Northeast District. And that came up in the Q and A and I dropped my PIA theory. So I hope that I did not shame my profession and dent my credibility.

We had a whole team of PR professionals. We're talking about Pia Malik.

Well, not in a group. I was the speaker. And then there was a Q and A and the hand up. Like, could you tell us about P? I said, oh, I'll tell you about P. Now, I will be mortified if you and I do not think similarly on this. But something tells me that's crazy. I know I'm right. That's why when I predict something, I am predicting. Like, I never look at something and then pretend like I'm predicting. But this one, I think I'm predicting it down. So, God, I hope I'm right. Okay, so you tell me first.

Okay, well, first of all, I just want to say you this. I have 556, 000 followers on one TikTok account. I have 85, 000 followers on a TikTok account. And I have like almost 9, 000 Instagram followers. Right. You know what I don't have? Managing my social medias as someone who literally has. That's like almost, you know, right? 700,000. I don't have an intern managing my social media, especially not my Instagram, especially because I get DMS from publicists and PR people who. I wouldn't want an intern reading that Confidential. See, you're. You're like me.

I have to filter all my own stuff.

I don't know anyone with a net worth under $50 million. And that following of under. I don't know, I think it was. Hers was under 5,000. Who hasn't? Who has anyone else managing their social media? But especially when you are literally a motherfucking publicist. Did all the PR professionals be like, rule number one is we manage our own socials because we're a fucking publicist. We're supposed to be the best at this.

Okay? So I think we're going into the same place now. Are you telling me, Kyle, am I picking up this vibe from you that you feel. I don't know if anyone doesn't know this, but we have Taylor Swift, obviously. Well, let's answer this, okay? Before we get to Pia, you and I both know this because you and I both did the. The content on this Taylor Swift, Kelsey. So let's just go with Travis. Kelsey first. Pr, not pr.

Aren't you the one that agreed with my sentiment that PR relationships can and sometimes do become real and in PR relationship, often the. The two celebrities can and sometimes do. I said that really bluntly, but you know what I mean.

Yes.

The studios put us together, our management teams, they put us together. We might as well have fun with this. Yeah.

Okay, so. And this is my equivalent of it too. This is how I explain it in my talk and then even in my interview yesterday. So think about, like, if you're in high school, in your college, and let's say you get dumped or your best friend gets dumped, right? So what do you do? What is your instinct?

That's what I thought.

If it's a girl, like, you're gonna go out and you're gonna find the hottest place person say I. I was.

A serial monogamist, but that's because 50% of my relationships were PR relationships. Just to make my.

Yes, everybody has PR relationships.

Like, literally, there were so many people that I dated and made out with and did something. And it was purely because there was a friend of mine that was mean that day and called me fat. So I was like, yes, see?

Exactly. Okay.

Boyfriend and then date.

Okay.

You know that.

Yes. Okay. So you and I are in the same place. Everybody acts like a pr. It's like verboten.

Like, oh, got no light.

Everybody's in PR relationships.

Any celebrity relationship that. It's like almost like the Jada Pinkett, Will Smith effect. We didn't need to know that they were split or not split up. We didn't need to hear about your relationship. We literally. But you told us so that is a PR relationship. The fact that you.

Yes.

Any relationship that is used for attention, publicity, fame, and. Or money. All four. Just one of them is a PR relationship.

Exactly.

Relationships can all also be real. And PR relationships can be totally fake and turn real, and PR relationships can just be totally fake. But the point is, is that they're being used. They're being strategically planted and they're being publicized for. It's basically just means a public relationship.

Well, and what did I said in my post, which is the definition of pr? It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Taylor and Trevor, they both benefit.

Like, Taylor Swift is too big for people. Pr. And it's like, oh, I get that all the time.

Oh, I just answered that last night. As a matter of fact. That's a question I answered.

Shut this down. Because I. I'm gonna lose. I'm not a publicist or peer press. I'm a blind, random gossiper. But I swear to God, if I have to talk to another CIS white man and explain to him that every celebrity needs pr. That's how you stay.

Yes. That's how you route. And, well, here. This is really what it is. And this is in the TikTok I already did. There's marketing, there's advertising. So there's paid. There's marketing, which is process, promotion, all that. And then there's pr, which is perception. Taylor Swift, that's what she cares about more than anything, is perception.

Her entire song catalog is based on the public's perception of her relationships with you.

Yes.

Like, of course.

Oh, so obvious.

Right? But it's like, I've read the blind items. Those songs are based on your public perception of her relationship.

Yes, exactly. Okay.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay. You and I have the same nerve that certain commenters just sit on and just.

That's why I can't. That's why I'm like, I can't fuck with Harvey Levin. Like, I'M sorry, dude. You suck.

Yes. Okay, so now you and I both are in agreement on that. So now when we get into the Pia conversation.

Yeah.

So Pia, now Travis Kelsey's publicist, and there was a collage photo put together by Pia's friend for Pia's birthday. There was at the center of it a photograph of Taylor Swift. Swift on her face almost exactly right. Is a clown emoji dead center.

What's important is underneath it was the caption that said Our Roman Empire. And the person was like, you're my Roman Empire to like Pia. So it was like, also not just, like, putting the clown on Taylor's face. It was like the context of that in there. It was deeper than just the clown phase.

Okay, so now tell me this, then. Do you think we're not gonna talk about Pia's intention? Yeah. But the friend's intention of saying Our Roman Empire. Is it that we both die on this hill, that we don't like Taylor Swift? Or this is how we use it. Or we're in on it. Like, we know it's a big. Whatever.

Unpopular, actually. Well, okay.

I bet you're gonna say what I've said. I bet you're gonna say what I've said.

I also have insight knowledge, alleged insight knowledge, that there was allegedly a too close interpersonal relationship between Travis Kelsey and his publicist. And allegedly, there's another Kelsey brother that has a huge team. And there are also a lot of other team members on Travis's team that do not respect a publicist. It's like, the only one that doesn't get along with anyone else is her. And also, they feel that her relationship has been inappropriate and codependent, and they have just been waiting for her to.

Be like, oh, wait, codependent with Travis.

Yeah. And that Travis is just like. Because she's. I guess, allegedly, she crossed a line, crossed a boundary in there because he's the client. Right?

Yeah.

She crossed a professional boundary. And everyone with Trav, allegedly, someone told you, but that she has an inappropriate, too personal working relationship with.

Oh.

And so. Okay, that's one aspect which, though, as. As a woman who's had a crush on someone. You know what I mean? Like, so I put myself in that mental space, and it's like, are you serious? And then it's also the combination of. I believe it's a PR relationship, regardless of whether or not it turned real. I think that that's irrelevant to this. I think that the point is, is that it began. And if you have a publicist Right. That has a crush on their client, may have crossed the line with that client previously.

Okay.

And that client. That client gets Taylor Swift. I'm sorry, It's Taylor Swift. Are you like that? You know what I mean? It's like those things, like, if I. If I had a husband or a wife, like, let's say more. More risk. If my wife was like, listen, Kyle, Taylor Swift said she wants to fuck me, I'd be like, I will divorce you if you do not go fuck Taylor Swift right now and sign an NDA and make sure that you get paid for it.

Okay, wait, hold on. Okay, now, hold on, hold on.

Okay, I gotta. I.

My brain has to catch up to yours right now. So you're telling me something that I wasn't thinking. I thought it was really more strategic, contrived, all planned.

Right.

Because she's a publicist whose job is to make publicity. You know, this is gonna make publicity. But what you're telling me, her reputation.

Is that she's not the greatest publicist.

So publicist.

And she also. She also. She blocked me. I didn't even follow her. She blocked me before.

When? When did Pia block?

Before I even knew about the clown face emoji Instagram story.

Wait, so she anticipated people would talk about it, and so she blocked you?

She either blocked me because of who I am and the platform I have. You know what I mean? So she either blocked me weeks before that. Again, I didn't follow the girl. She was like, you know what I mean? Where's Mariah Carey? I don't know her. But the point is that. So in the time span of when that story was posted and when anyone that's a swifty saw it and sent it to me. Okay, yeah. And it was like. Like, by the time I went to check, I was blocked. I couldn't. And I was like, oh, so if it was.

So you don't know when she blocked you? You have no idea.

But either way, either I'm a swifty. And all of, like, the one bias I have is I'm very pro Taylor Swift. I did a. My one meetup I had. So she's either not a swifty, right? Because.

Okay.

And, like, she's like, sick of me talking about Taylor Swift. Taylor Swift, but also with the man that she is clearly with the client she's clearly in love with because. Because it bothers her because I talk about that daily. Or it's because she's like, oh, Kyle's gonna unearth the fact that this is a PR relationship. Already been there, done that. Why would she block me for that? I do that to every PR relationship. The third aspect is that was shady. She knows I'm a Swifty. She knows I have a huge platform. She knows all the Swifties sent it to me, and she knew that I was going to light her ass up.

Okay, hold on, hold on. So what you are saying she was.

Hoping it wouldn't go as. As viral as it did? I think she did it. And that she didn't think, because she didn't have that many followers. I think that she didn't think it would go. But she underestimated the power of the sbi, the Swifty Bureau of Investigation, period. I love that.

Wait a minute. Okay, so I'm kind of close to you, but I was wrong. It was like I was right to a point. Now I'm wrong. Well, because you got the black.

Well, these are also, like, theories that are kind of converging because I haven't talked about this with you yet. So we're kind of like, I'm just telling you, I'm presenting.

We're covering it together.

Yeah.

So this is what, I don't know the blank gossip on it, but I look at human behavior.

Okay.

I feel that anyone who is going to repost a clown emoji. The Roman Empire, Taylor Swift and their publicist, There's a reason why they're doing it. It wasn't a mistake. In other words, you and I agree.

When her only client is literally dating Taylor Swift. Swift. Molly, can I ask you as a publicist, if Taylor Swift was your only client and she was dating Travis Kelsey, would you make sure that you, like, were aware of everything that you posted about Travis Kelsey?

Oh, yes. Oh, absolutely.

Yeah, exactly. Because it's Taylor Swift's one boyfriend, right? Taylor Swift is Travis Kelsey's one PR girlfriend. You know what I mean? It's like Pia had one job not to put a clown emoji over Taylor Swift's face. And you had one. One job to do. Literally. Don't piss off the entire Swifty fan base. Like, that's the thing, though, is don't. Don't debate. And. But also, here's the other thing that, like, at. This is why I love Tick Tock and I love our followers. I know that we share a lot of crossover. Our followers are so smart. Here's the other thing.

They are. I say that all the time. Every interview they brought up this. So smart.

Given the fact that there is allegedly potentially inside information that she did have an inappropriately Close relationship. Do you think that that was then intentional to bomb the PR relationship? Because she knows it's a PR relationship.

Well, see?

Or like, so seeds of discord in it.

Okay, so now. Okay, now you're in my wheelhouse. We're right here. So I'm going to go someplace, but I need your brain to come back to it.

Yeah.

Okay. Remember the. Okay. Remember when it was two women? This was right when I was starting to go into my kind of my hole and I was getting out. But remember it was two women and one I thought was friends with Travis Kelsey's public. She was like, on a director's chair and they were talking and it was inside scoop about how it is a PR relationship. Do you remember that you did a post on that?

Yeah. So it was a girl.

Yes.

A twitch streamer. I'm not on, like, Twitch or anything like that. It was a twitch streamer who was doing a Q A at, like, an emporium. You know what I mean? Something like that. And she said, oh, my. And apparently, like, a lot. She's well known. So she went.

So she was a streamer. You're saying she was a twitch streamer. Okay.

On streamer. And she said, oh, my God, you guys, my makeup artist is best friends. When Travis Kelly publicist and said it's a PR relationship. After she got a lot of backlash for it, two days later, she was like, I totally made that up for views. But, like, the only reason, honestly, though, is like, why would that get you views? Because I got that clip off YouTube.

I didn't.

I still don't know what thing that was. Why would that get her views? Because I didn't even cite what the. That was the only clip that matters was her saying that. And that clip was already ever on the Internet. What, like, what was getting her views? That was getting me views. That was getting literally every. You know what I mean?

Like. Yes. Okay.

So Kyle sense to me.

Yeah. So when I saw that. So there are two patterns that I see, because like you, I look for patterns, but I don't have your brilliant brain where I can, like, spot it, you know, in the future and everything. But when I see patterns. So when I see something drop like that, I'm looking for the next shoe to drop.

That's actually.

And I noticed that these two shoes dropped. Kept very closely.

Oh, my God. See, this is why. Oh, my God. Sorry. I just had a brain gasm. A PR gas. I'm talking about prgasm. Because Love it. That is such. But that's What? I mean, that goes to my point of where the theory of is she in love with her client and is she trying to tank this PR relationship? Okay. Because that's what it sounds like. That's like what you. Okay, okay, you got the leak. And I. I actually did a tick tock about this, about the leak leaks. And this was my. Because. Because of our amazing followers and also the Swifties.

Yes. Yeah.

The thing about the Swifties is that they followed the PR of every guy. Taylor.

Yes.

I've never done that. Like, that's where I do blind items. I also love certain fan groups I love. And that's where they have followed the PRs of every PR relationship. Every other. Every significant other. Taylor Swift. And they're like, Kyle, Kyle, this smells a. And so it was the makeup artist leak. Right. But the reason. But it was so poorly timed because was that leak dropped and I got the clip and I posted it on my tick tock. But my tick tock was banned. That was the time. So Pia. Because the same day my tick tock got unbanned was the day that I broke the clown face story. Was the day that.

Yes.

Yeah. And so I don't know if Pia like realized, oh my God, this girl's back on tick tock, I'm gonna block her because now it's gonna go viral.

But that.

So the makeup artist things went viral. Viral on my clone account. That was on my main account because my main account was banned. And then I get my main account back, and then the clown face emoji thing drops and I'm like, the piece that's missing is on my clone account. So. But like, I have Swifties that follow me on. I have 80. I have 85, 000 people that follow me on both. And that. Those are the people that were like, Kyle, that was the first drop. This is the second job. They're like, are they.

Oh, okay.

Are they sowing seeds of discord? And then that's where I got. Got third party information about a potential inappropriate boundary crossing. I don't know if it's a one sided. Maybe it's mutual. But I just heard about the side. Yeah. Because that's the.

All right, so, Kyle.

Professional. Yeah.

Okay. Okay. So we're gonna bring your brilliant brain back here. And so when I'm looking for what's up? And when I'm. When I'm looking at these moves, like PR moves, like we'll call them, I'm always looking for intent. I'm always looking for a victim. I'm always looking for a cause, like why they're doing this. So in my mind, I felt this who thing was manufactured. I didn't know the inside scoop like what you're talking about, because I look for manufactured things, but also I always look for revenge. So I did not think there was any revenge or any type of destruction that's happening here. Because you have the blind gossip. Now you're telling me that blind item. Now I look at the PIA clown, the relationship thing, the makeup artist pulling it down. Now I think your blind item rings true.

I mean, I got it right.

And here I did it in an interview yesterday. I was telling the reporter, we're going back and forth. So I was. I was close.

We're all about evolving because, I mean, that's both of our jobs is like, as new information becomes available or comes to light, we have to adapt to, like, you know, either incorporate that information or dispel it. You know what I mean? So, yeah, okay. The blowback I get, it's weird. It's like. But you changed your opinion on this. I'm like, I feel like that's what all smart people do as more just new information about information. Yeah, it's just like.

Thank you. Okay, so let's say that you and I are now coming up with the official non official PF theory. Okay.

The official alleged theory.

Oh, the official alleged.

Yeah.

I say official, non official, but we will say for legal purposes, the alleged theory.

Yeah.

Is that we. So now what we're saying is we believe that PIA is definitely behind creating conversation and dialogue and setting a perception to make something happen because she was allegedly either in a relationship or some significant pining. Let's hear it. Let's get the final word on what do we think? Let's future cast here. What do we think's gonna happen? It will come to an end.

March, the Super Bowl.

See, you're like, can I give you a theory? Can I give you one more theory?

Film the super bowl commercial together. They have to go. Go through the super bowl or else.

That commercial they have to go through. Okay, can I get. So here's my theory. And I'm not a deep swifty level like you. I mean, I like her. I like Taylor. You know, my kids liked her. I've been to her concerts. But I feel like she's on the ERAS tour, right?

Yeah.

Yeah, but like, I'm talking like late, like in the spring, whatever, you know something. So now they're future casting here themselves. Like, okay, so now we have the tour and Then we have the space, and then we have the movie.

Yeah.

And then we have space, and then we have the two tour, like, Argentina.

Like, she flies down there.

Yeah. So now we. Whenever there's a block.

But did you guys. Did you notice the timing on the block? Like, it was a perfectly teed up pr.

So I'm looking at blocks now. I don't follow. I'm casual. Like, I work full time. Like, I can't follow all this stuff. But even I'm looking, like these blocks of times that I can picture them saying, okay, it's late summer of fall all the way got to December. And then we go to our. Okay, what can we have Taylor? Okay, she can't go to musician because she's just coming over airstrike. We can't go to a movie because we had the writer strike and we had this. There are no movies. What can we do? Like, oh, the NFL. And then goes through all the thing. Like, I think it Is that planned. Am I crazy?

No, you're not. Obviously. Like, it was so in the whole friendship bracelet thing. Hello.

Like, oh, my God. Yeah. That was all manufactured. Right?

And the time, you know, they set this up last year, but the.

Yes, okay, okay.

But the other thing is, Molly, I read a blind item, and it was from, you know, when she released 1989, originally, like 2014, 2015. Right. Yeah. It said how Taylor Swift wanted to do the super bowl that year, and the NFL said, okay, no, no, you need to have party songs that not just your fan base love that get all of the men up dancing. We need more like Rihanna has, you know, these songs that people get.

Yeah.

And so we got Shake It Off. You know, we got some other stuff. But yes, they were like, they turned down Taylor Swift because they said you need to. You need to translate to our male audience.

So she needed to come up with kind of anthem rock. And now you have Shake it off. And you go to. Oh, my gosh. So you go to. In a stadium, you have her dating Travis Kelce.

All the NFL guys love Taylor Swift. They're like, oh, my God. You know what I mean? Look at her at all the. Yeah.

Okay, then tell me about blind gossip then, in terms of the NFL, because I get asked that all the time. Tell me, though, are you getting blinds about the NFL or at least, you know, back when it was open. Yeah. So what's the NFL angle? Tell me about NFL with Taylor.

It is so annoying because we have lived in this lovely community of gossip, and I've been doing pro Athlete gossip. And all of a sudden I get these fucking barstool guys that are like, fuck you, you're a woman. And it's like.

So, Kyle, now tell me about the NFL blind gossip. The blind items, specifically around when the start of the season and the Chiefs game and Taylor shows up in the private booth and then in the Jets. What are you getting in terms of blind items or people dropping things with you?

I don't think I can share any of it without, like, activating the entire NFL fan base.

Okay.

It's been PR from the start. I mean, all of the blind names I'm getting about are about. Listen, I'm sorry, Molly, but there's never been a celebrity relationship where I've known ahead of time what and where. And what was going to be and what was.

What was going to be happening happening.

No, I haven't gone through this since Taylor Swift's last PR relationship.

Okay, all right, okay, understood. Now let me ask you this then. Now that you have all the back and front end and all of it, what does. I mean, we know that the NFL gets ratings. We know that. We know television ratings. We know all of that. But what do they do? They want to tap into the demographic for the sports or just for the culture of it?

Like. No, they are.

Swift is going to watch.

Yeah, no, the NFL. You know, the NFL. I've been watching the NFL like, since I was little. That's the one thing I watched with my dad and I like, in college.

Me too.

The NFL. Yeah. So as a former Division 1 athlete that, like, I was part of the lawsuit against the NCAA for brain injuries. There's a big. There's been a lot of movement, a big movement going on about brain injuries in sports, concussions in sports.

So which is the big PR problem with the NFL.

It's true. And I'm a big proponent of, like, anti brain injuries as someone who had one from sports concussions, you know, so that's been. So there's been a slow burn in popularity where people are actually saying, no, I have an ethical issue with watching this. And they're turning off.

Oh, yeah. And kids aren't playing football anymore and all that.

Okay, so that was. That's the slow burn. That's been years coming. The next one is that women are the majority in America now, by the way. And. And women aged, I think it's 24 to 49. Okay. Hold all of the purchasing power like we are. And you know, what we do is not watch the NFL. But you know what we did Spend billions of dollars on Taylor Swift merch tickets, the ERAS tour albums.

Yes, yes. But how are you gonna get. Are you gonna do it, though? Are we gonna see a bunch of manufactured relationships now with NFL players and singers and celebrities?

I wonder. I think this will start a trend. But why do you think they put Taylor Swift. Like, it was just so obvious. They put Taylor Swift in the box. Fox and every single network was watching Taylor Swift instead of the game. It was like, clearly, oh, yeah, no.

So I got the short term gain of it. But what's the long term?

But the NFL is trying to gain international viewership. That's their biggest thing. Because that's kind of the only way to save it in a broadcasting sense is to tap into an international market. I watch European football. I watch European football more than I watch American football. And so they're trying to do the inverse. Like, they just did the game in Germany. Hello. They just did the Chiefs game in Germany. Okay, I know.

Yes. And I got so many calls from reporters in Germany.

No American. Known all over the world. More than Taylor Swift and Joe Biden, period.

Okay, so, Kyle, the short term all makes sense.

Yeah.

I mean, obviously. I mean, the short term gain. But is it. What they're trying to do is, like, truly, they're just trying to make it more culturally acceptable. Like, you bring women in and just in the hopes that some of them.

Stay trying to get more exposure to NFL games because they think men in other countries will be like, oh, this is watching it. They're hitting your heads against each other. This is probably why Americans are so fudgeing dumb. You know what I mean? Like, they're just.

Yes, okay. All right. Oh, that's interesting.

I think that the NFL, like, that's. I think that, like, it's just the common theme we've seen, like, across all of these industries. These men are overestimating. They're underestimating us as women in our tastes and our.

Like, even though I like football.

But what drives our pack mentality, too, when it comes to, like, yeah, stuff and. And becoming fan bases and stuff like that, they need to hire 50s. If the NFL wanted, they would hire Swifties. Like, that's. I mean, the sbi. Swifty Bureau of Investigation going forward, if any company wants to not go bankrupt, they need to have their own sbi.

Okay.

Swifties. Tell me things about me that I didn't even know. I'm like, holy shit, how did you know that about me? Like, my doctor didn't even know that. You know, it's crazy.

Oh, my gosh, Kyle. Oh, my gosh. This was. Was a trip. I don't even know how to end it. Like, we had all these questions and I got to some of them. Yeah, let me just do one because we have to. Because now I gotta edit this. Yeah, Now I know where the juices in this podcast. Yeah, okay.

Once you get me talking. All right, shut up. I'm sorry.

Yeah. Okay, so now we did talk about. So at Melissa said, I'd like to know how and why PR teams choose to drop blind items. So we, we touched on that.

Yeah.

We also talked about where you get your blind items and how you switch source them. And then someone else said, you know, I. I love her, and talked about other creators. We also talked about kind of the metric for judging how realistic, true, trustworthy. Oh, gosh. We actually organically got through a lot of these. Yeah. And then. Oh, my God. Yes. How often is a blind item put out to distract from maybe another rumor to help spend pr. All the time. Right, like, that's right.

That's changed recently, I think. Not to toot my own horn, but I've kind of made blind items more mainstream in the last year.

Yeah, you have, have.

And so it hasn't been until recently that I've just seen like a shift where instead of going to tmz, they're going to blind items.

I agree with you on a percent. That's why I agree with this.

That's on mainstream media fucking sucking tmz, Page six sucking and us being better at it, period. Hire us instead. It's like what you get for being having male dominated industries that do gossip. Hello. That is a woman's sport. That is a woman's sport.

So, Kyle, here is the last question that I put in here. And even though I think that we've touched on it it for the entire podcast, we can wrap everything up in one big bow with this. So at Melissa asked, I'd like to know how and why PR teams choose to drop blind items. So I think it's fair to say that you and I both agree that blind items are now like a mainstream strategic public relations tactic. Agree.

I think that PR teams have seen the power of virality with. With blind items. Like, especially with my account, we saw Sophie Turner and Joe Jonas's divorce start in my DMs in July. Being a PR war on Sophie Turner. To me, flipping that and saying, baby, I'm going to battle for the Queen of the North. And I shared all of Joe Jonas's blind Items. So I think the power of blind items has been proven. And the lack of virality of TMZ headlines and Page Six. No one respects those mainstream media articles anymore. Anymore. Or there's journalists anymore. They don't print news. So they come to the blindness. Because you and I do it better than tmz.

Okay, so I'm now making the timeline, the public relations publicity timeline. Here we go. So. And we'll use Joe Jonas and Sophie Turner. Okay, so now you are getting. Not just dropped, they are. It's like a boulder on your head.

Like they are blowing you up, you.

Know, with all of the blind items.

Yeah.

Okay. So you get all. All this behind the scenes peer pressure. Over the summer, I jump in Labor Day weekend, and again, like, my followers are noticing. And one of the things that I always talk about is the Friday news dump, which I didn't create. I just talk about it because, I mean, I worked in Washington when we used it because of you. Yes, Right. So. But I didn't originate it. But just like you, with blind gossip, you. You can spot it a mile away. Okay. It's a movie move. It's a PR move. So now I'm tracking Joe Jonas. I'm tracking what's dropping in TMZ and people, the timing. It's Labor Day weekend, and I know all weekend now we're going to start to see these little micro PR moves that are going to be leaks, photographs, social media, and then other blind, perhaps gossip creators, whatever it is, like dropping it with other people, maybe take the bait. And then on Sunday, we get the crap about the ring camera. Now we get the true trashing and trouncing of Sophia.

Didn't they split on August 15th or like, that's where. Or did we? Because I like, well, this.

I'm talking about the campaign. I'm gonna talk about truth.

Oh, no, I'm just saying because, like, I'm like a little blacked out on July and August and September, because I know he filed for divorce on September 5th. And I told my followers they were splitting before it was in the press. So that's where. I don't know when the mainstream told everyone.

Yes, because TMZ had information on there. So I think what happened is when this is what I've said is they were trying to manipulate this entire divorce using an old playbook, an antiquated playbook. Okay. Hating women could see through hating women. Yes, exactly. There is that.

Yeah.

But then it's women like us. Like, I'm a seasoned person who sees it. You're the new next gen of it. Of the blind. You and I I together. And I think even independently, I don't think we were even duetting or anything. We were talking about the same thing, but kind of like a different place. But then I noticed in the whole perception rhythm and when people start to come after people, that retaliation. I felt like Sunday was the day of, you know, the day we are going to officially trounce and bury Sophie Turner. Because the next day is Labor Day. And then reporters are not working the entire weekend. Right.

So they thought my blind item, deep dive on Joe Jonas on that Sunday. And do you see how it was? Yeah.

So they're not working. Right. So they want all this stuff to happen on social media, but they started to lose it because people like you, people like me, other people. You and I will both take credit for this because you and I both.

Know, because they were. My followers were saying, molly, can you confirm what.

Yes. And then they go to me and.

Say, this is true. Keep going.

You know?

I know.

So we're both looking at it from different lenses, right?

Yeah.

So then. Because I know how the press works and reporters.

Yeah.

So no one's covering it over the weekend because they wanted to manipulate social media in their favor. It didn't work.

And now they said, shutting this the fuck down. I'm shutting.

Yes, we're going this to the next level. But it was.

I was after he filed for divorce when I also said, this is so weird. And that's when I. I came out with the story of. They had someone come to me in July, back in July, priming me, prepping me, started with this back in July. And that's where I think. I think that. I mean, not to give myself too much credit, but I really. Social media turned instantly because I'm like, you guys know, listen, two months ago, someone reached out to me to try and make.

Yes. Okay. So now, hold on. So now we're starting to get. Then you come in with the receipts, if you will. Okay. Everything is falling apart. Now we have Labor Day was the day that they marked it as the day where they were going to get through it. Then we have the divorce announcement come out on Tuesday. Okay. Now on Monday, I happened to be working with a client, and I had to write a separation agreement. So it was literally in my brain. Okay. So when I saw this, and that's why I looked at. I was like, we're going to. You know, I just, like, came on. I was in my kitchen and I looked at it. And in a second, just like you like looking and seeing the numbers, I do that with words and statements.

Like, I go, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

Redline, red line, red line. Like, I know this is what's happening. So then I did that post and I talked about Sophie turn. So I blew up the. The language and Sophie Turner being silent. How she sat in the truth.

Because that's where. Molly, this is where I do give you credit because I think that together we worked really well. Because you all. Yes. You know, nibbed the PR spin in the butt. Were you like, this is the playbook also, you know, public divorces. You know, PR for divorces.

Yes.

And that's where you said the side that's silent is because they have nothing to hide. They have nothing. Yes. They're not compensating. They don't have to. They don't have to create the narrative because the narrative already exists for them.

And they know it will reveal itself. Because if you did it wrong, it's going to reveal itself. So now here's the continuum or the timeline. You're in July. We come all the way out now. I'm Tuesday.

Okay.

I'm not you.

I'm not. Yeah.

I'm not blind items. I'm just using.

Yeah.

Front end. Right. Then who calls me New York Times? NBC. Now I'm getting legacy. So I'm getting a million digital Internet culture reporters.

And they're like, what happened now when the New York ER campaign fail? Right.

And now it's like the New York York Times. Like, whoa. So that shows between the two of us. I actually use that as a case study.

Yeah.

For whenever I talk about. Even when I did this interview in the Boston Globe, I'm like, okay, let me start this. That's why I said, like, you were in.

Publicists need to consult with me because it's just.

It doesn't work anymore.

See, the. And that's where it's like. I see it from the front end. Like, the tired writing. The tired terms where it's like, you need to hire better writers if you're going to spin a PR narrative. It's also the same. You can't do the same PR spin that worked in 2005. It's not gonna work in 20. It's 2023. And it's also not good. People need to realize that this is an ever evolving, ever changing territory now. Okay. With AI coming in.

Okay.

Dude, AI. Like, I hope publicists are prepared for the headache that AI is going to deliver them, because Hollywood's scared. No, publicists should be more scared right now. The PR spin is going to change three years from now. Now it also, I think it's heavily dependent on where the influence is coming from on social media for that particular second. So, like, if you're looking for white supremacy influence, go to X. You know, if you wanna. If you want to be radicalized or join up, like, that's. But it's like, if you wanna be a swifty and like also learn about Sophie Turner, you go to TikTok. Right. Because I feel like we've created like there are a lot of more pro women communities. Like, if you wanna, if you wanna just be misogynist and like draw dicks on Britney Spears his face, listen to the press home podcast, you know, but if you want to actually have like discussions and educate, then you go to TikTok. So it's just. But that's now too. That could change three years from now. It used to be YouTube. No.

Yes, it could. And Twitter was the Me Too movement.

Yep.

And TikTok is shout out to Elon.

Musk for making TikTok the most important app. You know?

Yes, I know. Exactly. Exactly. But people, publicists and teams are trying to corral public perception. They can't do it anymore. No, they cannot do it.

What they're also, what they're gravely miscalculating is that there is no trust for them. Like, people do not trust people. No one. Like they trust a celebrity more than they trust their publicist. You know what I mean? But people don't trust celebrities in general. I don't even want to give all. I don't want to say all my ideas because they're so valuable. And I want to watch all the publicists who don't consult with me. Me suffer and burn and crash like so quickly.

But wait a minute, Kyle, we can't do it yet because I'm putting it in the book.

Okay. Yeah.

I'm signing my book proposal.

Yeah.

We're gonna. And I'm gonna interview you for the book.

Yeah.

And then we are going to reveal.

Yeah.

The Playbook.

Okay, that's. No, literally, it's. It'll be like the billion dollar PR Playbook. I'm not even kidding, Molly.

Like this. I know.

You do bring credibility to me because people are like, oh, and you have that. Everyone thinks that we're on the same team together. Like we work on a team together. I'm like, okay, yeah, no, we just.

No, we just think alike.

I know, but you and I think you're my publicist. Like, it's kind of funny. I just go with it. I'm like, yeah, Molly, yeah, but. Or they think that we work for the same agency. It's very bizarre. But, like, that's how little.

Oh, they think we're players. Like that we're.

We're the movies.

I feel so honored.

Don't you know that I'm like, you think I'm a plant. You think I'm an industry plant. I'm that good.

Oh, God. We are not plants.

Oh, my gosh. Oh, it was. But it was honestly like that you could. I can see the shift since. And also, everyone all of a sudden cares about blinding them since. Because Joe Jonas's pr. Is it known around the PR industry that his campaign failed so miserably? And that was the first time where a man had tried that massage. I've never seen something fail so fudgeing.

Well, it's not the first time that's been going on for decades, but it's the first time they really try to corral it how they did. And in the TikTok age, in the TikTok. And it was just spectac. My quote. This was always my quote. And I don't know how many publications. It was a spectacular failure. It was because it really was. It really was the fact that they.

Also, like, it was at a certain point, I guess they thought that they're like. And so they kept saying, whenever you're comfortable to report on it, take your time, report on it. The point is I never got comfortable. And they trusted that I would just report on it. Like, it's like, no, that's the other thing is that they miscalculated how many other things I have to, you know, to report on.

Yes.

And this is what I talked about on another interview, that I'm not a star, I'm not a fan or stand up celebrities because, like, I feel I get so many dms from, like, influencers and other people that wanted to get followers so they could go to the same watering hole as a celebrity. And one of them. And then they come running to me afterwards. Kyle, I. This celebrity, and he's married and has a. And I'm like, okay, okay, okay, you're not a celebrity. Why would I report on you getting, like, you being dumb? Yeah. It's like. It's also like, do you know any blind items I've read about this one celebrity having one night stands while married? Like, you are literally the 6486 girl. Okay. People want to get in with celebrities. To get in with celebrities. I want nothing to do with them. I just want to know all their business and tell everyone about it. You know what I mean?

I'm the same way. I'm the same way.

So dangerous. People think I'm so dangerous because, like, I can be bought. Kim Kardashian literally send me $5 million, and I will never say anything bad about your family ever again, period. I can be bald. But the thing is, is I don't want to be in with celebrities. I don't want to be a celebrity. I just want to talk until. Yeah.

And this is where. Well, I have to say, though, too, I always have to correct the record. And I didn't jump in and say to you, technically, I'm not a publicist. I'm the opposite of a publicist. I used to be. Well, no.

Well, no.

I mean, just an adjunct. But I mean, I. I do. I do reactive pr. There's proactive publicity. I do reactive. Looking at proactive, saying, yeah, that's not working.

Yeah, well, that's kind of like.

That's.

You're more academic about it, is what I'm saying. Like, you're not. Well, no.

And I'm a practitioner. It's. I'm a practitioner. I do it for a living.

Your job isn't to manipulate the masses. Your job is.

No, mine is to clean up.

Is to say that manipulation sucked.

Yes. Or people hire me to manipulate. I'm like, we don't have to manipulate because I can do it in a much smarter way that involves the truth.

Yeah.

And then no one's going to come back on you. Kyle, you are a treat. Now, I will admit I'm exhausted, and I do think my brain actually hurts, but the amount of information that you and I have covered in this entire conversation is. I mean, we could create a new TikTok account just from what we just talked about right now, and it would blow up overnight.

Well, Molly, I got one question for you. You want more? I'll give you more. Oh, my God.

And you gave us more. Kyle Marissa Roth, I love you. If you want more information on Kyle, you have got to go to her account. But I'm going to put everything in the show notes. You all know where she is anyway. But, Kyle, where do you want to drive people the most? Your number one place?

My TikTok at the Kyle Marissa and my Instagram at the Kyle Marissa underscore. You want to more? I gave you more. Both.

Fantastic. Okay, now we're going to hit Stop. Stop.

Okay.

My thanks to Kyle Marissa Roth. If you want more, she'll give you more. You can follow her primarily on Tik Tok at the Kyle Marissa, but you can find her on other apps as well, like Instagram. Did I tell you? Did I tell you? Now, in every episode, I include one indestructible PR tip. It's a practical takeaway to help you build an indestructible reputation. But I'm also adding, now it helps you understand the PR machinations, the strings holding the puppets up, what's behind the puppet show. And if you work in this industry, even if you don't work in comms or public relations, you run a business. It's important to understand how this works. So here is the tip. Do not dismiss gossip. And I'm talking about online gossip. You know, people sniffing around, but also in real life too. There's always seems like it falls into the truth category, doesn't it? But one of the most interesting parts of the conversation that Kyle and I had was really about the truth factor in blind items. So, you know, listening to her, I mean, she's just spitballing it. But to say like 60 to 80% of these items are often proven true over time. So as we discussed, unverified items. And I know a lot of people, and sometimes people in the comments too, you know, comment and say, you know, these are people that are just bringing people down. And what is the point of this? It's fascinating because publicists use it. You know, lawyers use it, fixers use blind gossip, and they use it for a reason. And how fascinating is it to not just take it whole cloth. Never take blind gossip, whole cloth. Listen to it and look for the intent behind it. It. Who's the victim and what is the hurt? Why is something being exposed? That's when you get into the fascination of it. And when you learn how it works in the celebrity world, I gotta tell you, it's no different in the regular world. It's the same thing. And I'm telling you this authority firsthand. Everything that I see play out in blind gossip plays out in just regular sectors as well. I promise you. I promise you. And that's why I follow it. It. That's all for this week on the podcast. Be sure to chime in with your takes on this episode on my social media channels. Also my Patreon PR Confidential. You'll see my name and my photo there. You will find access to my lives that I have twice a month. I also have a separate one for PR professionals. I have resources for PR professionals up there. You get access to me, but also you get access to the unedited, uncut video of this conversation between PR. TikTok's PR lady and the blind gossip queen, Kyle. Marissa, thanks for listening. Bye for now.