274: The Future of Public Relations: A Conversation with PRSA's Michelle Egan

This week, I'm tackling the number one question that keeps popping up in my social media messages. And trust me, it's a question that deserves our attention. That is, if you work in public relations. Welcome to the Indestructible PR podcast. I'm Molly McPherson, your crisis communication strategist. Now, normally I would be guiding you through the world of breaking news and pop culture, but this week, I want to close out this year. And really, what a year it celebrating the profession that has been so very good to me, the profession of public relations. Now, that question, I get it in different variations and on different platforms, but it's usually all of the same. How do I get into pr? How do I get into crisis? They all want to work in it. And why? Because it's cool. People understand how fun it is. It's interesting. If you're someone who has confidence in communicating, if you're someone who's interested in breaking news, if you're interested in just the field of communications and the benefits of it, public relations is really about mutual beneficial relationships and who wouldn't want to work in that industry? So if you are one of those people, then this is your episode. This week, my special guest is Michelle Egan, a PR and fellow of prsa, the Public Relations Society of America. She boasts over three decades of experience in strategic communication, so that means she's working in government, nonprofit, and the private sectors as well. But at prsa, her job as a board chair is to go around, visit with the memberships, talk to the people who are in the organization, and communicate to all of the members. Her term is wrapping up, and that's the reason why I thought she would be a perfect person to wrap up this year of the Indestructible PR Podcast. Starting in 2024, we're going to have a slight tweak to the format. So having her on this last long form interview I thought would be important. And she comes with a lot of credentials. She currently is the Chief Communications Officer at Alaiska Pipeline Service Company. She is in Alaska, and if you're someone who is of a certain age when you hear the words pipeline and Alaska, we are going to discuss that topic in this episode. But Michelle has a rich background in public relations, including a significant contribution to prsa. I wanted to speak with her because really I knew that she would give the listeners such a good view of what's happening now and what is happening into the future. So we're going to delve into the background of prsa, explore how it shapes the Industry. And also she's just going to offer, you know, invaluable advice for aspiring PR professionals. So if you're interested in the world of pr, if, if you're PR like me, then like I said, this is your episode. Take a listen. Michelle, I am so excited to speak with you today about public relations, the Public Relations Society of America. And as a guest, you are going to round out 2023 for me. So I couldn't think of a better person to speak to about the topic of public relations. So thank you so much for joining me on my podcast.

Oh, my gosh, thanks for having me. I've been seeing you all over the place and it's great to be part of your podcast.

Oh, wonderful. And as I said in the open, you are the chair of the Public Relations Society of America. What does that job entail?

Well, so I'm the board chair of prsa, which is the largest professional association for communicators. We have about 20,000 professional members and another 6,000 student members. And so we're really out there advocating for and doing development for people who work in pr.

Okay. And also I should say that you have your apr. You've earned your accreditation as an apr. How long ago did you do that?

Oh, a very long time. So you have yours as well, which I appreciate. You're also a member of prsa, so thank you for that.

Yeah, absolutely. Full transparency. Yeah, I absolutely, I absolutely love being a part of the association and I've met so, so many amazing people. But, you know, I wish I was in a place where I could be more involved in the association. Because you're a fellow, for instance. What does that mean in PRSA terms?

Well, so once one is accredited, you know, you've really gone through and demonstrated that you understand the PR process, that you understand the code of ethics, and that, you know, you know, you have these knowledge, skills and abilities later on in your career. After about 20 years of PR career work, you have the opportunity to apply to the College of Fellows. And that is another distinction that includes a higher level of service to the association, to the profession itself, and to your community.

Yes, and it is wonderful. I've definitely had people who've chatted with me about it, but I'm just one of these, you know, consultant, these independent practitioners, which PRSA is involved with a lot of practitioners like myself who are, you know, working as a consultant. And so there's a lot of support for people out there to do that as well. But this is not your full time role. You are a chief communications officer. So could you just briefly tell me about your job right now?

Sure. I work for Alyoska Pipeline Service Company. I'm the chief communications officer. And we operate and maintain the Trans Alaska Pipeline system. So the pipeline that goes from the north slope of Alaska to Valdez and then through Prince William Sound. So we're also responsible for protecting the waters of Prince William Sound from an oil spill. So I'm the chief communications officer and I have responsibility for everything in that suite of responsibilities from government relations, internal external communication, philanthropy and crisis response, community relations, and also our emergency response. So it's a super exciting job and really lucky to be here.

Well, and certainly, I mean, in your role, I mean, you oversee internal comms, external comms, stakeholder media, government relations, crisis comms. You're doing so much in your job right now. Do you have an extensive career working in Alaska with pipelines? Like, what brought you there?

Well, actually, I was born in Florida, so from the furthest reaches of the country up here to Alaska, my dad was in the milit. And so we ultimately came here to Alaska. And it's just a wonderful place to raise a family. And there's some really great business community here. And so I've been here for 30 odd years here in Anchorage.

Okay, which. Which service was your dad in?

So my dad was in the Navy and then he switched to the Coast Guard. So we're here because of the Coast Guard.

Michelle, do you know that I have a Coast Guard family? Did you and I ever talk about that? No.

Semper Paratus.

Semper Paratus, indeed. Michelle, my daughter is a first class at the US Coast Guard Academy.

Oh, she is? How exciting.

Yes, absolutely. And I've had friends who served in Alaska and. Oh, yeah, it goes deep. When I was Alaska, I was at Kodiak and Sitka and all of that.

So Kodiak is where I was raised.

Oh, my goodness. Of course, of course. Okay. Well, you and I offline probably know so many people. And also, you went to bc, you went to Boston College.

I did.

Did you love going there?

Every single thing about it. And I actually was a freshman when Doug Flutie was a senior, so it was the best of the best times there. And I always like to say, like, it got really competitive after that in terms of, you know, getting into the school. So I was really lucky to just get in under the wire.

I always appreciate people who say that. They just come up and admit that, that it was more difficult, that it's more difficult now to get in than it was back then. But still, it was a. What a great school. And what a great legacy, too, you know, with Doug Flutie as well. Okay, well, let's just jump to this, you know, just talking about public relations. I love the field of pr, and that's why I was so excited. I mean, this is now the second time I'm seeing you. Of course I'm seeing you, you know, through video right now. But I. Oh, my gosh. What month was this In October. You know, I was speaking at the Northeast District Conference, and. Oh, my goodness, like, walking into that room. And I speak in a lot of different places all year round. I travel, go to these conferences. But there was something about walking into that. And I was walking in a little heavy because a couple days earlier, you know, my father had passed away the week before, and I gave a eulogy at his funeral, and I was in a really different state of mind. There was no way I was going to cancel, but I was walking into that room. Heavy. But the second I walked in the door. There's no greater energy than walking into a room full of PR energy. Why were you at that meeting and what takeaway did you have just being from that district conference?

Well, first of all, we were so excited to have you. And your listeners should know that there was a lot of fandom going on there with people who really wanted to see you and talk to you and grab you afterwards and get a photo because of all the things that you've done to elevate the work that we do in pr. That was the Northeast District Conference. And so one of the things I have the privilege of doing as chair is going around and actually participating in a lot of the community efforts and conferences that our volunteers put on. And so it was so much fun. And you're exactly right. People who work in PR and people who are part of PRSA really have this community feeling and this commitment to supporting each other.

Yeah, I felt it in that room. It was amazing. I thought, this is exactly the room I needed to be in. So in your view, what have been some of the most significant changes in the PR landscape since the inception of prsa? I know this is a huge question. It is so broad, but what is your take on that?

PRSA is 75 years old. Right. We had our 75th anniversary this year. So the industry's been around for a very long time. I think the major changes have really been around technology and the things that we're seeing now. And years ago, it was, oh, we've got Video news releases. Now we've got social media. Today we're talking about AI. So the changes in our industry are constantly. And then there are the fundamentals that really just stay the same about really building relationships, engaging with publics and doing, doing the good work for our organizations and for society.

And you've done good work in, in your role. Certainly, you know, as a board chair. I just received an email from you and you were talking about, you know, just an end of the year, you know, email to the membership and you said that you, you know, you started a year with a new strategic plan and with three focus areas that are lighting the way. So one is building membership and professions. So tell me a little bit more about that.

Well, we do have a large membership, so about 25,000 professionals and students. But we have seen, you know, post Covid a decline in membership and we're starting to kind of see that come back. We recognize as a board and as an organization that we've got to invest particularly in our young people and early and mid career professionals so that we have a really strong pipeline for the profession going forward. We're super committed at PRSA to making sure that the work that is done in communications is done in an ethical fashion. And so it's really important that we put a lot of energy into the membership and the potential membership at those early and mid career stages.

And in fact the ethical practice, as you mentioned, is point 2 in your email today. So tell me more about that. You know, it specifically mentions that you want to influence the practice of ethical communications. So first just define what that is and how PRSA looks at ethical communications.

So PRSA has a code of ethics that's about 50 years old and it's really stood the test of time. And we have a huge responsibility as communicators to really uphold our democracy. We live in a society where people have a free and appropriate public education, they have access to information and then they make decisions based on that information. And so I feel really strongly that the role we play in making sure that there's free flow information, that information is accurate and true, that is really central to our society. So that's a big piece of our code of ethics and what it means to practice communications in an ethical way. There are many, many people that would call themselves communicators or PR practitioners who may not be familiar with that, that angle and we have to be really cautious about that.

Is there anything about prsa? You know, every organization, whether it's growing pains as they grow larger or Even trying to accommodate changes in the technology landscape, just even the, you know, communication landscape. Is there anything that PRSA could do better?

Absolutely. I think we're always working to meet the needs of our members and also attract more members. So like I said, we really, like many associations, had a decline in membership a couple of years ago and now we're starting to build that up and we've got to really double down on that. Young people have a different view of what it means to join an association and how to interact with individuals in that kind of community. And so we have to be nimble and make those adjustments. And that's part of what our strategic plan is focused on.

Oh, wonderful. And I'll give one last question, you know, about prsa. We don't want, I don't want any of the listeners to think that this is just me giving a, like a plug, an ongoing plug for it. But it is true, though, I. Anyone who works in public relations comms where they, they touch that public relations piece of it, I always highly, highly encourage people to join PRSA and also to work towards the apr. I mean, because it is absolutely true. That is not a test that you show up for and think that you can wing it. I mean, you have to study it. But with studying for the apr, you really learn about theory and you learn about the important architecture behind how you build these plans. So I think it is so important out there to have that. But in your travels and interactions, you know, with members across the country, what impact have you observed through PRSA's initiatives that they have on the professional growth of these members? Like, are you noticing the impact of PRSA in your travels?

Oh, absolutely. I mean, it's, and it's not just members. A lot of our resources are available to non members as well. So we certainly invite people to come and participate in our webinars, in our programs. So we are seeing, for example, this year, AI AI AI. People really want to understand is how do I use AI in an effective fashion, but also is it ethical? What does that look like? I saw that across the year. One of the things that was really exciting is when I'd start the year and go speak to a group. I'd ask how many of you have played around with say ChatGPT starting in January and you get a few hands, some a little bit reluctantly, like not necessarily sure they want to admit it. And by the end of the year you get most of the people in the room raising their hand. And we provided a lot of resources around that as have many other organizations. And I think that growth has really paid off for our members.

I noticed this, and I'm curious if you notice this as well. At the beginning of the year. I'm pretty active on social media and I've been active on Twitter since 2007, I think is when I joined. And that was my primary social media platform for many, many years until, you know, TikTok came on the scene. But on Twitter, in the communities where I reside, when AI was becoming a thing, I noticed it was a thing with a lot of communicators. They felt that it was almost, they didn't want to say it, but it was almost like a toxin to the industry. And certainly I would understand coming from writers, for instance, why that technology would be a threat to their livelihood, you know, the reliance on it. But also I remember doing a podcast episode a while back about what are the ethics of AI and writing press releases. And I was teaching, even teaching my class at Boston University and asking the students. So I mean, these are now students and how they viewed it. They were the ones who really changed my point of view because it was almost as if AI was verboten with a lot of people in my community. Right. I know I was always in the middle, I was always neutral on it. Like, I could see the challenges with it. I could see the ethical challenges of it, certainly, because if you're hiring a company to write a press release and they're just putting it in AI, you know, what could, you know, what good is that? Not to mention there's so many threats, reputation threats and leaks, you know, using that. But when I get into the classroom, it is a part of the students lives. So I knew early, just because I had that vantage point of being with younger people, I could see. No, I mean, we have to unfold this into our industry. So how do you view and how does PRSA view the ethical guidelines for using any type of AI?

Yeah, I appreciate the trajectory that you described because I had people, especially early in the year, say things like, it feels like cheating. Okay. Like, that's a really interesting emotion to ascribe to it. A tool. And now we see more and more people realizing, hey, I can get some creativity out of this. I can do some research using these tools, I can streamline what I'm doing. And that, as I say, if you learn to do that, that allows us to work at a higher plane. We can use our resources in a more strategic level where we play really well, as opposed to doing an early draft of something or Researching by Google. Exactly what we're working on. So, you know, you're looking for an analogy. Well, we could sit around all day and talk analogies or we can get some thought starters out of an AI tool. And so I think it's just really come a long way in terms of people's understanding and trajectory and acceptance of the tools. And again, I think if we look at it as a tool that's going to allow us to play in a space where we are really strong, that that'll be great. PRSA did issue several weeks ago a view on the ethics of AI. And so it takes our code of ethics and breaks down all of the different applications that you could use AI for and gives you kind of the watch outs. Like what are some of the things you should be conscious of and aware of as you're using AI?

Oh, okay. What are some of the examples that you can pull from that?

Well, for example, you know, there's always a big debate about attribution, right? Do I need to disclose that I used AI? And so this kind of gives you guidance for that, making sure that if you have clients, your clients know. And you know, I hear a lot of practitioners that are in agencies putting it in their contract so that people know. Like I will occasionally use AI for these purposes in your contract. So that sort of disclosure and then just really giving people the understanding through the ethical lens that this is a tool and it's not going to replace your human judgment, it's not going to replace the human touch. That's your job. And it is your job to make sure that what's coming out of your office is accurate. Correct. And that the people who need to get credit for the work are getting credit for the work.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, that's certainly an ethical challenge. And in my work, since I work in issues management, crisis management, I cannot use ChatGPT or any type of artificial intelligence really with my client work because I cannot submit their information into a platform that can go out into the Internet. So I still have to old school, you know, a lot of my work, but which I think is very important, you know, because of the reputational risk with using it. But I, you know, I agree with you when it comes to formulating, you know, a plan, when it comes to just structure and the architecture and ideas and prompts for, for eliciting conversations. I mean, I really find it to be an incredibly helpful tool for this industry. So it's so good to hear that the association is standing behind it now. What do you Think, Michelle. I mean, you're a practitioner, you work day to day in this field and you're at a high, high level. And as I mentioned, your job touches so many different areas. What do you think about for the average practitioner out there, whether they're PR comms or if they're in our world, how do you stay ahead in ever changing media, PR landscape? What do you do outside of being a board chair? What do you do to stay ahead?

I follow Molly McPherson on.

To learn what's happening in pop culture.

Honestly, one of the things I do is I just play around, right? So when ChatGPT, you know, comes out like that's a playground, I want to go play around in it. TikTok, I spend time on there. It's interesting, it's curious. I'm not even really teasing you because I do appreciate the lens you've brought to PR by using sort of popular culture. And it's been really enlightening to me. It's made me much more interesting as a dinner conversationalist because I now know more about popular culture. So I do try to set aside time to just really play. And I keep myself fresh with courses and certificate programs. I've been doing internal comms for 30 years, but I just completed a certificate program on driving change through internal communications because I want to be fresh. Like I want to know what's the latest thing. And that's the fun of this job, is that there's always something new to learn. The pace is fast and you just have to get out there, roll up your sleeves and have a good time with it.

I could not agree with you more. I love just the field in general. Public relations, media, news, journalism, like all of it, it is so fun and it is not a coincidence. Of my four children, three of them are all, you know, journalism comm majors. Because I think a big part of it is they see how much fun I'm having with it as well. I certainly thank you, you know, for mentioning TikTok. It depends on the audience. You know, some people, when they talk to me about it, they'll usually start with the defensive. And I don't see any relevance in it, or if we even talk about ChatGPT or AI or, you know, I don't know, I don't see the relevance in it. But when I hear this from people who work in communication, I'm a little taken back when I hear that because they want to, you know, just distill it down to a silly app. And. And yeah, a little part of me I'm listening to them tell me that, you know, what I do is kind of silly work. But I, that's why I appreciate what you say. You know, the celebrity pop culture device that I use, my content is not about popular culture and celebrities and reality television shows only. It's just using that as a device to teach public relations, to share what I learned. Like, yes, I'm part teacher, but also I'm a practitioner on there and I love to just work stuff out. I mean, using all privacy and, you know, the guidelines there certainly, you know, with my clients and confidentiality. But that's why I love it. I'm just using just case studies because what I often say is life is pr. Public relations is just different letters for human relations and how to communicate. And so recently I was asked to speak at the Axios Communicators. Eleanor Hawkins, she runs the, she writes the communicators letter for, for Axios. I don't know if you've ever seen it or not.

Oh, yeah, I know Eleanor. Oh, you know, Eleanor, I really wanted to come to that event, actually the holiday season and traveling, that, that would.

Have been a big travel for you. But you know, she, she asked me to be, you know, on the stage in that event and it was absolutely unbelievable. And one of the reasons why I loved it is just having the opportunity to sit on stage. And one of the questions we talked about was public relations. And I did say one of the things I love most about TikTok and just what I've done on there has nothing to do with visibility or popularity. If anything, I struggle with being so visible, you know, on there. There's so there's something to be said that said there. But I love how excited people are about pr. They love the industry, they want to know more about it. I cannot tell you how many people in my DMs in my email are from students, college students, people going into college, recent grads, mid career transition, asking me for guidance and advice for how to get into public relations. They love it so much. And at that event, it was no different when I went out into the crowd, person after person after person. I mean, granted it was a room full of PR and comms people, but they just loved the profession. And so I wanted to say while I was there, I met Linda Thomas Brooks, who came up to me at the end and she mentioned your name and I couldn't even believe, like, of course she would be here. I almost, you know, I wanted to hit myself in the head, like, why did I Not think to even reach out and see who was coming from prsa. But she had so many nice things to say about you. So it was nice to see the CEO at this event.

Yeah, we were really happy to have her there. And like I said, I wish we had the whole board there, because I'm sure it was very instructive. And. And Eleanor does a great job of sort of conveying on a weekly basis what's happening in the industry and the movers and shakers and where things are going. So I always make sure to check in on what she's sharing.

Yeah. And, you know, and being there as well, Linda really has a good sense of what's happening in the PR landscape as well. I mean, she is someone who is wired in to all of it. And that as a PRSA member, that made me happy, talking with her, you know, and hearing that. Yeah. So it. Which is. In your opinion, though, why do you think pr, outside of, you know, what I said in terms of social media, why do you think the field has gained such popularity and importance in recent years?

Because I think it's been instrumental. It's grown in its central importance in organizations. And so, you know, let's. Let's think about COVID We were. I think Sally Sussman from Pfizer said one time I used to be looking, saying, we're looking for a seat at the table. And she said, now I feel like I am the table. We're in the middle of conversations about COVID again, is a very good example. How do we get to our employees? How do we get important information out to people about this illness or vaccines? What is the best way to demonstrate empathy in this situation? What are we going to do now that we're working remotely and we have a hybrid or a totally remote, remote workforce? We're in the middle of that conversation. And so I think that's really grown our importance. And of course, as we have more and more ways for people to connect and communicate, CEOs and other executives are looking for advice and counsel on how to engage, and we bring that. I often say we are often the only people at the table who have the breadth and the depth. Like, we look really wide, and we also look deep on issues and topics and the landscape that's outside of, you know, the boardroom. We're kind of like the Swiss army knife of the boardroom, and we're. We're essential. And I think people are seeing that. And not to mention the fact that the work we do is really fun and exciting. And it can change all the time. It's a great field. I was actually just looked up. Bureau of Labor Statistics has PR jobs growing 6% by 2032, and the regular population of jobs is expected to grow by 3%. So there's a lot of opportunity in PR, and I think people need to just get in there and give it a go, and then get yourself familiar with the way the work is practiced and the ethics of the practice.

Okay. I think that's a terrific transition into this next stage. I mean, what advice or would you give for aspiring PR professionals? You know, as I mentioned, I hear from them all the time, and I, you know, my opinion. But in your role, even professionally, in your role right now as Chief Communication Officer, but also in your role at prsa, what advice do you put out there for people who want to get into the field?

I think it's really important to say yes to a lot of things. If you're not in the field or you don't have the opportunity to take a job, take an internship. Volunteer nonprofits are an excellent way to get some experience, get some exposure, decide if this is really what you enjoy and what you want to do. I was looking at the Commission on Public Relations Education, which you're probably familiar with as a professor, just issued its Every five Years report on the state of PR education and where it should be going. And I pulled a quote out of there from that report, and here it is. There are four traits that mean the most to him. Employers, competence, curiosity, confidence, and collaboration. So I think if people who want to get into PR just unpack that a little bit. Competence. So know the work. Curiosity. That's a huge part. And we've already talked about that. That's a huge part of our profession. Confidence. Right. You have to be able to hold some space. And collaboration. You've got to be able to work with other people, because as you say all the time, this is about relationships. This is about engagement. So you got to have that piece of it.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, Those are the four Cs of this profession, no doubt. You know, at this event, too, I had a young woman who was telling me she was going to graduate school in Washington, D.C. because she wanted to work in crisis communication. And she gave me the different programs where she wanted to attend. And she was so bright, and she was just so excited about the profession. And I was listening with a curious ear on this one because I wanted to know, like, what is it that was drawing her into it? And some of the programs that she Mentioned they were more emergency management and others were more like American. I think it was like American was more of that pr, more proactive, corporate like. And then I think it was like Georgetown or something. It was for, you know, emergency management. But what she really wanted to do was crisis communication. And that is the number one question that I honestly get mostly. So I have to ask you, because you work in crisis comms, there is no doubt about it, your job is. And no one can think of the word pipeline, at least when a certain generation, I wonder, in your role, have you guys figured out the exact age when you say a pipeline or Alaska, where it triggers a memory for them or they have no idea what you're talking about? Do you know what I mean? Because, like, when I talk about my experience, like when I worked at Hurricane Katrina, every time I got up in front of a room, everybody acknowledged what it was, but there came a point where I had to explain what Hurricane Katrina was. I mean, how about for you? I mean, just in terms of, you know, Valdez, like, are you noticing that people are like forgetting that happened?

Oh, I don't think they're forgetting that that happened is such an important lesson for all of us.

What about younger people? I should not say forgetting, but what about people just not aware of it?

I think people are certainly aware of that. That has a lot of legacy. But I have seen a shift since I've been at the company. This is a legacy company. There are people all over the country who came here to build this pipeline. It's not unusual to go out to one of our viewing stations and find someone who's there with their family because their grandfather worked on it. So a lot of people have a connection. But certainly as time goes forward, we see, you know, younger people, newer people to the area who don't, who don't have that connection.

Have you ever worked like a, you know, at your company just like an absolute crisis situation where you had to pull out a crisis plan?

All the time.

All the time. What would be an example of one.

We had in 2011? We had a spill to containment that shut down the pipeline for several days. And so that's a plan that, you know, we're prepared for. But nothing prepares you for the hustle that comes when you're responding. It's emergency response, but it's also, you know, crisis management and also looking at the long term continuity for the company. We were very fortunate and managed that that really well. It's an unusual occurrence, but that's one, that's one Example.

Yeah. So, you know, I want to go back to the Exxon Valdez oil spill for a moment and to just, you know, to reiterate my point is, you know, when that happened back in 89, and that was a while ago, you know, when. When that happened. I certainly remember when that happened. But I would assume, like, you know, a lot of these younger even at this event that I went to, you know, last week in New York City, if you were to ask, you know, maybe someone may have heard of it, but certainly it doesn't resonate well, but clearly it still resonates in Alaska. And you said it has almost that legacy feel to it back in 1989, since you probably. You were. You were there in 89. Correct.

I had just graduated from college. I was back home working.

Okay, so you were in Alaska when that happened. Okay, looking back when that happened, because this is what I do, just, you know, my age, you know, working 90s, you know, to now, I tend to look back at previous crises ever that. That I either worked on or I was just familiar with. What can you say that has changed from that 1989 incident? That is this takeaway that still stays with you today about the Exxon Valdez. And we should say, you know, for people who don't know, major environmental disaster that happened in Alaska's Prince William Sound. So, I mean, that's your backyard, correct?

Yeah, for sure. Yeah, absolutely. It's. And. And the people who work in this company now, we have a whole marine operation that actually escorts tankers that practices and drills all the time. And the people. There are many people who work in that space who were there, who maybe were fishermen during the time that the Exxon Valdez happened. And their, you know, their whole season was compromised by that. So there's of a lot. A lot of passion about it, and there's a lot of passion about protecting our environment. So what have we. What have we learned? I mean, obviously.

Yeah. Or. I mean, obviously you've learned a lot. But, like, like, you know, looking back at what happened there, what was wrong and. Oh, God, am I getting this right? Is it Captain Hazelton? Am I getting that right?

Yes. Hazelton.

Okay. All right. Yeah. Oh, my gosh. I'm tapping back way in the way. Hazelwood. Hazelwood, yeah. Hazelton. That's. That's a treatment facility in Minnesota. Totally different. But, you know, I mean, you and I being of, you know, similar age, too. When we were, like, when I was working in crisis comms in the 90s, for instance, I mean, we didn't have Twitter, you know, to post something. We didn't have anything. So if there happened to be, I'm just wondering like, what would have changed, like let's say XL Valds happened, you know, today, which it could. Even though there's guidelines in place. But certainly we had, you know, the BP oil spill, anything that's different that you can just pull away. Like why it wouldn't happen just because of good communication practices. Like what is a good comms practice that was learned from that event in particular that you now have in your job today?

Yeah, well, I will argue the point. It could not happen today because we have double hull tankers and there's a lot of other protections in place that just make that scenario not possible. But even the smallest, even the smallest event would be, you know, would trigger a very, very urgent response. And part of that urgency that, that we have today, that we've learned since then is you got to get out fast. You got, you know, we practice on my team, getting out with information even when we don't know everything. If we wait until we know everything, it's, we have to say we have an issue. It's in Prince way and sound, we're responding. This is where you can get more information and then you just go for it. So I think that's a big piece of it. Practice, practice, practice. I mean, we drill an exercise as a team around those issues all the time. And then the other piece is just the importance of the relationships that we have. The relationships we have with communities, the relationships we have with fishermen in the area, the relationships we have with indigenous communities, those are so much different today. And that's a really important part of our responsibility. And so that's the company, but it's also really critical role for the comms team.

Yeah, well said, well said. But when you were mentioning this, something came to my mind right now and I have to ask your opinion. Just because of your role both at PRSA and in your role there as well, what is your view? Because you work in crisis comms and crisis response, emergency management, what is your view of using X for the primary source? I mentioned this on stage when I was talking at that event last week as the primary source for communication in the event of an incident, do you have any thoughts on that?

I think if that's the fastest move you've got, then you better use it and really assess whether that's right. And for us, that wouldn't necessarily be the primary spot because we're going to share way more Information than is on X. But so as you know, because you've been through this as well, that you know the portal for where people can find things, you would use Twitter X, Facebook, name it to say, hey, go here for the latest information. Hey, we did an update. Hey, you know, look over here. Here's some photos of this situation. So I think that if that's where people are, that's where you've got to be.

Yeah, that's a good answer. That is a good answer. Because I like what you're saying. It's quick, It's a quick way when something big is happening. But you're saying what I said on stage that night, which is you can still use it, but send it somewhere, send it to where all your information is, you know, just, just use it as that mode of transportation, if you will, to go back to your own site, you know, back to your website. Okay. Yeah, I was just curious because I've been thinking about that a lot. I've been thinking about that a lot. Okay, well then let's wrap it up from here. So as you transition into the role of the immediate past chair, how do you envision your experience and insights shaping the future direction of prsa, especially in continuing the momentum that you received, you know, from this year's achievements?

Yeah, thanks. Really, this is one year as chair and there's, there's really only so much that one person and the board can do in that one year. So anything that's happening is a result of a massive number of volunteers care so much about, about our association, but even more about our profession. And so that's not going to stop. That momentum will Continue. I think 2024 is going to be very challenging in the communication space. We've got AI, which is great and it also has a lot of watch outs and then miss and disinformation is something probably it was talked about at the event you were at, but it's something that we're very concerned about. You know, how do we, how do we break through this myths and disinformation that's proliferating. And as we go into an election cycle, you can expect that 2024 is going to be polarizing. There's going to be information overload and it's going to be a lot of important work for communicators.

Well said. So can you give the last plug to prsa? Where could anyone go listening to this podcast right now to find out more about PRSA?

Sure. Anybody who wants to know more about PRSA can go to prsa.org we'd love to have you as a member, but we also invite you to just explore the resources that are there. And we have a hundred different chapters across the country, so if you want to check that out or visit with somebody who's involved, it's easy to find them.

Michelle Egan, it was such a pleasure to speak with you. It's like, I feel like we would have had this chat if we were sitting down having coffee anyway. So I really appreciate just even having this conversation with you, but that we could share it with so many of my listeners. Thank you.

Yeah, thank you so much. What a privilege for me.

Okay. Thank you. A privilege. Privilege. That's all for this week. On the podcast and this year's format of the Indestructible PR Podcast, we're going to change things just a little. Instead of focusing on one topic every episode, every week I'm going to highlight something that's happening in public relations and naturally use the device of popular culture, breaking news, politics, anything happening in the world of celebrity to just jazz it up and make it a little interesting, a little more snackable. But also, I'm going to be changing to Fridays. So if you, if you're used to getting this podcast on Tuesdays, you're going to have to set your calendar now to Fridays because I'm going to be offering a Friday news dump, and you can't do that on Tuesdays because that would just be bad pr. Tell my listeners thank you so much for listening to me this year. It's been amazing and I know I have a week left and it's going to get even better. So thanks so much for listening, for contributing, and for sharing your feedback with me. I hope you continue to do that next year. So be sure to chime in with any takes that you happen to have on this week's episode. I wish you all a happy holiday season and I look forward to seeing or speaking to all of you next year. Bye for now. Sam.