55: Executive Presence: What it Looks like, Why You Need It And How To Get It

Confession. I almost did not want to hit publish on today's episode because the information is so valuable and so helpful to anyone in business that I wanted to keep all of it to myself so I alone could be an amazing executive with presence every time I walked into a room. But I couldn't do that because I'm in the business of helping other people become successful communicators. My guest today, Lauren Sergi, is an expert in helping people become better communicators face to face. And today she's talking about executive presence. To distill it, how to walk into a room and own it, how to walk into a meeting and make sure that your goal is achieved. Listen to this episode and if you want to be that person. Hello Lauren, and welcome to the podcast.

Thank you very much for having me, Molly. I'm very happy to be here.

Now, full transparency. This is our second interview for the podcast. However, your first interview is going to air after this interview. So this is the first time that you are introduced to my listeners. But Lauren, you are speaking to me from. You are a neighbor from the north.

Yes. Beaming in through the magic of media crossing time and distance.

And country borders.

And country borders.

You are a Canadian speaking to me from Alberta, the province of Alberta in Edmonton.

Yes, we are basically the Texas of Canada.

Size wise.

Correct size size wise. And culture wise.

Oh, and culture wise.

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. You're in. We're in prairie cattle country here.

It's like western up there. And I'm so sorry this is going to sound like such a small minded American point of view, but when I think of Edmonton, I just think of the Edmonton Oilers. Like I immediately default to hockey teams in Canada.

That's what we think about too.

No surprise. No surprise. Well, I spoke to you on the podcast in. You did this great episode about conversation skills and you are a communication expert and you help people with their face to face skills and help them become better communicators. And through talking I learned that you have a special, special background on executive presence, which is so important in my field because I consult with a lot of executives, especially how to help them communicate but understand the climate that we're in as it relates to, to print communication, social media communication and how they comport themselves online. But you have this special niche. Notice I'm saying that for the Canadian of how to truly command a room or command a meeting based on executive presence. So could, could you explain the definition of executive presence?

First, executive presence is the ability to convey. It's a combination of conveying authority and confidence and certainty and that you are able to be the right person for the job at this time for these people.

Okay, so this scenario could be anyone, man or woman. Though I would assume that there are different tactics based on gender, Correct?

I would say different tweaks on the tactics.

Oh, tweaks to the tactics. Okay. And I would. Okay, so I would like you to note that as we go through the list. So really, the goal here, what we want by the end of the podcast, the transformation, is for people to understand when they go into a meeting. So this could be a board of directors. This could be a manager walking into a room of executives. It could be a new director meeting with the C suite for the first time. In other words, the goal is how to get everyone to decide or agree upon your decision. In other words, how can you. What kind of presence can you possess to be able to get buy in on your idea?

Yes, It's a matter of getting and holding people's attention and telling them very quickly that you want to listen to me and my ideas are worth consideration and buy in. So presence is a strong aspect of persuasion.

Everyone in the sound of your voice will need to know the answer to this. So we're going to touch on three points. We're going to first, talk about physical presence. When you walk into a room, what is the best way to look or act physically to command that presence?

Well, first up, physical presence is not about your body shape. So it doesn't matter what size you are. It really doesn't. What matters is how you carry yourself. It's your carriage and your. Your deportment. To use a very somewhat antiquated language around it might make people think of cotillion balls.

Right.

But the way that you carry yourself is quite important. And what we need to remember about body language is that it's the first message that we send people. If we're face to face. The first piece of information they have that they will interpret about us is the way we look. People in strong leadership positions who convey that sense of presence, who are able to convey a sense of authority, what they're showing is that they're certain about themselves and they're comfortable in their environment. So we're talking about a very engaged presence. You want to get your muscles involved with this. And from engagement, in particular, it's core abdominal engagement, which if you can stand or sit up, you have abs. Okay, it's not about if you have a six pack, it's about are you, well, engaged through the abdomen because that helps you hold your torso more upright and make the whole thing look more effortless and comfortable.

Okay, so give me a visual. What am I.

Look.

What am I looking at? When you say someone has core engagement, what does that look like?

It looks like they carry them. They carry themselves with a bit of energy. They are not slumped over, and they are not collapsing down at their chest.

Okay.

So even people, even if you got a great big belly in front of you, you can still tell when your abs are engaged. You tend to hold your chest up a little more proud.

Okay.

Yeah.

What about your. What about your hands and arms? You know?

Yeah, hands and arms can be quite tricky. It's. It's not that you need to do a whole lot with them, but it's that you want to be consistently showing an open demeanor. So ideally, the elbows are slightly out from the sides. You want a little bit of space between your elbows and the side of your body. This prevents you from T rexing and, like, pinning your elbows into the sides, which makes you look small. Oh, oh, oh.

The visual of T Rex. I immediately. I had to go to Toy Story. Yes. Okay, So I had to go Toy Story that visual there. But T Rex is that you collapse your arms into your body and you. And they're attached. Your elbows are attached to your torso.

It's like they're pinned at your sides. And then people only gesture using their forearms and their hands, which makes them. Which gives them little T Rex arms.

And then what is the presence when someone does that? What does that do to their present? Does it diminish their power?

Yes, it makes them look small and uncertain. And if you think about being small, literally, you are making yourself take up less space when you do that. So by holding your elbows out just a couple of inches away from your sides and then thinking, okay, I'm going to gesture with my hands towards the outside of my body. You open yourself up and you take up more physical and visual space.

Okay. How about if we make it, we inject the tweak in here. When we talk about the genders, are we standing any differently if you're a female compared to a male?

Women tend to pin their arms at their sides and hold their hands in the middle of their body more often than men. Gentlemen out there, it's the whole man spreading thing. You do it more naturally than we do. But by the same token, we want to claim that space as well. Women want to claim that space as well. What we don't need to worry about is thinking, okay, well, I Need to stand with my feet in a football, in a, you know, like football linebacker, out from the center of my body. I need to have them really wide and have a big broad stance. It's not that, it's that, it's the difference here is made up of half inches and inches. It's that tiny space between the elbows and the sides. It's that half inch rise through your sternum to give you a nice proud chest that whether you're a man or a woman, will give you that air of confidence. Look up pictures of people like Christine Lagarde, the IMF director, and Indra Nooyi. She was the, she's the former CEO of PepsiCo.

Okay.

Amazing, amazing posture on her. And it's very much through that proud chest that they both have two very different body types, two very different personality types, but they both carry themselves in that very leaderly way.

Now, Christine Ligard, as you mentioned, I have a photograph of her that, where she is standing, towering. She's a tall woman, so she has her hand in the power pose and she's looking over a short statured man. And it was just this very powerful pose. Now, recently, as a matter of fact, I just read it today online. Are you familiar with the power pose? Amy Cuddy had a very popular TEDx story. Talk about if you stand with a power pose. Now, I just read an article today that came across online where it was debunked again. And I do note that I'll see the, the debunking of the power pose every year or so and it's always a male researcher behind it. I don't know if that's biased or not, but do you have any thoughts on the power pose yourself?

What I, what I am uncertain about is, is whether or not it has all of the measurable hormonal effects that Amy Cuddy initially claimed. I am not a researcher in that area. I do not do blood samples on my clients or my people who work with me. But what I do know is that within social signaling, taking up space is a power move. It's an indication that I'm comfortable here, that I'm going to own the space, that I'm not going to shrink down to make room for you. It isn't necessarily a good domineering or aggressive move. It's just saying that I am here, I'm taking up space and I feel okay about myself. This is a very, very strong social signal.

I agree. I agree with that. Yeah.

And with executive presence, the signaling is what you're Focusing on. So whether or not you feel that way, if you signal that people will say, okay, he or she is feeling in command of the situation, in control of the room. So I will treat them as such.

Absolutely. I will force my into that type of a position, even a more masculine position, when I want to exert that power. And I will say, as a hack with the power pose, when I deploy it, I usually do it with a breath. It tends to give me more air, and I get more oxygen to my brain. So I take it also as that moment where I can kind of regenerate, you know, and get my energy back. So there is more. At least for me. That's how I use that power pose. Okay, so fabulous information on the physical. If the interview stopped here right now, there would already be so much valuable information. Okay, so let's transition onto the verbal aspect of executive presence. What could you share with us there for tips?

Again, what you are trying to convey is confidence and certainty. Not that you have all the answers. No one is expected to know all the answers, but that you are comfortable looking for them and you are comfortable putting your ideas forward. This demonstrates that when it. When you feel you should stick to your guns, that you can do that. This comes out a lot through your pitch and your tone of voice.

Now, remember.

Remember earlier I mentioned the engagement through the abs? That engagement through your core is going to support your breath and support your voice, which will give it more power and not lower the tone, but give it a richer tone, give it more strength, which is very, very good. It comes through the abs, not through your lungs and not through your vocal cords. It's through the abs that that engagement happens. So you really do want to shore up there. Just keep the abs lightly engaged. It will immediately improve your vocal tone. Then the two things that I watch out for is pitch and tone. Now, women tend to get hammered more hard than men do about this sort of thing. And here's where I say that it's not. It. It's not that the tactics are different between the genders. It's that the bar is higher and more unforgiving for women and people of color.

For women and people of color?

Yes.

Why? Tell me. I understand women. Why people of color?

Because of cultural politics.

Oh, okay. So they're not given as much leeway when it comes to their tone and pitch or accent, Is that what you're saying?

Not so much accent, but it's that we're expected to have greater polish at all times.

Greater? Oh, of course. Greater polish. Okay.

It's. The bar is set a little higher. So that's where. And that's where really watching out for. For pitch and tone become important to my female clients in particular pitch. I don't care what the natural tone of your voice, what the natural pitch of your voice is. You've got a high voice. Rock that. High voice. That's fine. What we want to watch out for are contradictory sounds. A contradictory sound. Classic is up speak. So this is kind of Valley girl talk.

Yeah.

That many of us into where you hear that little bit of a lilt at the end of a thought or an idea and it's like, is she asking a question? I don't know.

Do you think that the up talk is something that is more generational or do you think it's just more cultural or do just some people do it?

Not generational at all.

Okay.

As I'm laughing, my leg because, oh, man, I deal with this so much. It isn't generational. It tends to be more gender.

Okay.

Women are typically going to do it more often than men, but men do it as well. And you know, here I'm. This is getting into again, a bit of. A bit of gender and nature versus nurture theory here. Upspeak indicates. Uptalk indicates a few different things. One of them is it means that you are either uncertain about what it is you're saying, so you're indicating that you know. Do you agree with me? I think this is what it is, but I'm not entirely sure it's a signal to the unper. To the other person that you're not certain about what you're saying. Executive presence tends to demand a lot of certainty. So that's the first contradictory sound there. The next is that it can indicate that you're not finished a thought. Oh, so it leaves the other person hanging. They're waiting for you to finish the sentence.

Oh, I never thought of it that way. Now let me ask you though, in the up speak, as you refer to it as an indicator, is it a true indicator or a false indicator?

If it is indicating the thing you want it to indicate, then it's a true indicator.

Okay.

That's why it's problematic because very often when we use it and we don't mean to be conveying uncertainty or we are finished our sentence or we aren't seeking approval, that's where it. That's where it gets really pronounced in women is when we're looking to build relationships with other people and saying I, I. We're basically saying, I think this way. Do you think this way too?

Oh, yes. Okay.

We're. We're looking to develop those relationships. So when you're not doing one of those things, but you're still using habitual upspeak, it's confusing to the other person, and it can make you sound more junior.

Right. So it's. It's a classic definition of. Of weak speak. It's just an indicator of lack of confidence.

And in some circles, it's totally fine. And in some context is totally fine. If you are looking at building that agreement, then you'll probably want to upspeak more often because it's telling other people that I want you to respond to me in this way, but if that's not the point, then you don't want to use it.

Oh. So here's. Here's an area where if you look at it like even a parent speaking to a younger child or a salesperson speaking to someone who wants to buy something, it's a leading question that is ending upward for them to fill in because you want them to insert your opinion. Conversely, if you want executive presence, you want it to end it with you because you're making your statement. Oh, what a great example. Okay, is there anything else in terms of the verbal presence?

With the verbal presence, I like to watch out for a drop off in tone. So this is when you lose strength at the end of your sentence.

How does that sound?

It tends to sound like a little bit of a trailing off. You know, kind of like this.

Okay.

You lose a little bit of tone, you lose a little bit of strength. And instead of ending your sentences with, you know, with a decisive cutoff with impact, they're kind of weak. They trail away. When people are criticizing vocal fry, that's usually what they're talking about. It's the trailing off that makes you sound less committed or bored or weak.

That's when vocal fry tends to happen. And vocal fry. Can you do a vocal fry?

You know, I'm actually really bad at imitating it, but I'll give it a try.

I'm bad too. Yes.

Yeah, there. There it is. And it's not the graveling of the voice that's the difficulty there. It's the trailing off and loss of strength at the end. So I will hear people trail off without the gravel. And it's equally frustrating because you want them to end if they are a leader. They cut off the sound you end. You can almost hear the. That period at the end of the sentence.

I was just going to say that you can Hear the punctuation. That's why if you punctuate at the end of a statement, it'll be very clear and decisive as if it's an explanation point, a question mark or a period. Oh, that is good advice. Is there anything to the opposite of verbal and that is using silence?

Oh, oh, you've just opened up a box of joy for me. I love silence. It is so, so, so powerful. It is the verbal. It's. It's the verbal form of taking up physical space.

Oh, I love that. I have to swipe that. That I have never heard of that before. And you are absolutely right. It's an. I always looked at silence as a power move. I think it's one of the most powerful moves. But you are, you're adding some color to it. You're right. It's how you can take up space. Oh, tell me more about silence. Balance.

It's the, that's why it's such a power move. Usually if you, if you pay attention in a meeting and not. You don't want to focus on the most junior people there, the people at the bottom of the ladder, because they tend to be more quiet more often as well. Focus at the people in the room who have a lot of power and then pay attention to how many pauses they use and how much silence they allow their, their sentences to be punctuated with. They take up auditory space. They make other people wait for their answer. So if you ask me a question and I need to think about it or I'm not certain about the answer and I combine a long pause with sustained eye contact that is really powerful to the point where it can be intimidating. So, you know, it's one of those things where, where you always want to be careful the degree to which you tune up these sorts of moves. Do I want to really intimidate people? Okay, let that silence drag out, but make direct eye contact with them the whole time. Do I want to appear thoughtful at that point? Be silent, but maybe look away. Let people see that you're going into your own head and that you are going to take the time you need to think something through, that you're not going to let them rush you. It's very strong, It's a very, very strong message there.

And it's not if you agree with me on this one or not. It's not just being silent. There is a non verbal stance and comportment, as you say, of how you are silent. If you are silent because. And you aren't standing confidently, for instance, someone may Think, oh, she doesn't know what she wants to say next or she's confused or she's searching. But if you're very. Oh, so this is how it could even tie into your physical presence. If you're standing there, you're engaged at the core, you're looking at someone and the room is still and you have everyone almost in your hand. They're just waiting for your next, for your next statement, even if you don't know what it is. And you, and you're scrambling in your brain. It's, it's how you, the type of command that you have standing there is so powerful. What a great hat.

Oh, yeah. Having that presence. Oh, man, having that presence can cover up so much. Like, I don't know what to say next moments in here.

Oh, you have touched on. Oh, I mean, if people knew in front of a room, how often when I'm standing there in full command of my body and engaging my core and my head is scrambling like I have no idea what I'm saying.

Okay, you are a swan gliding upon the surface and paddling frantically underneath. But they only see the guide. And that's the thing that executive, like what you just said about. It's that combination of the silence and the non verbal, you know, the verbal and the posture. And executive presence is a package of behaviors. It's not any one of these things that's going to get you there. It's using them all together.

Using them together. Synchronous. You know that you, you use one and leverage it against the other. All right, so we've talked about your physical comportment. You've, we talked about physically the physical presence that you have, the verbal tactics that you can use to increase the command in the room. Now let's get a little more deliberate and how do we get the room to tilt into your favor? In other words, you have a goal for getting something out of this meeting. You either want to sell an idea, you want to get by for an idea, whatever it is. How do you achieve your goal? What is that final piece?

I am an almost an obsessive planner when it comes to meetings, when it comes to conversations, you know, these supposedly spontaneous things that one says are all planned. So something that I want to know going into a any kind of meeting is what is the goal? What are we all trying to achieve by the end of the meeting? Ideally, I will have wanted to get buy in on that thing from the other people in the meeting as well. But even if I don't have buy in I want to know what that. What that key outcome of the meeting is going to be. And then I relentlessly focus on that throughout the meeting. So I will flag areas in advance, things that I know are going to be tangent points or are going to get people spinning off onto a different topic. I want to be aware of what those might be so that when they come up, I guide the conversation back to what that goal is, what we're actually trying to achieve. Sometimes you can do that gently, you know, it's segue. Say, oh, yes, and what you just said relates to what we're actually talking about because of these reasons. Other times you need to just forcibly yank them back on topic. But you're always staying in control over the topic of the conversation and where it's going.

Now, do you. Is this something that is overt, in other words? I call it like a bluff objective, which is bottom line up front. This is what I want to discuss and this is what we'd like to get, where we'd like to be at the end of this conversation. Do you need to be that deliberate, or is it something that you are keeping yourself on pace for, or are you managing the expectation of the room and you're telling them what you want to achieve by the end?

I find it best to be overt and deliberate beforehand, ideally even before the meeting takes place.

Okay.

Because then people know what to expect. When we know what to expect, it can make things much more comfortable. If you are trying to achieve something that maybe the group would not agree on and you have, you know, a bit of a hidden agenda in there, then obviously you need to be a little. A little more clever in terms of how you guide the conversation. But generally speaking, I believe that being upfront about the purpose of a meeting and where a conversation is going to go is best. People will start working with you on that and they'll say, oh, okay, I know what we're doing. I know. This is how I know whether we're not, whether or not we're on track and person with this wonderful executive presence, they're keeping us on track. Oh, thank goodness.

Oh, absolutely, yeah. Now, I do want to touch on that for a moment. Part of when, if I'm in a meeting or in a workshop and I'm standing in front of a room and we know it's going to be four hours or eight hours, I definitely want to convey that I am someone that is going to keep the trains running on time. Time is a big element in these meetings because most people hate meetings. And most people hate sitting in a room all day. And even though we could be 50 years old, our attention spans are shrinking. You know, 15 year olds, it's at like seven seconds right now. But even if you're 50, it's still shrinking. What about the element of time? Is there some move or some way to command a room? Even better, if you're letting them in on how long it's going to take or not take, like how much time I'm going to take to do this. Just talk to me about time and the expectation.

I plan out timing. And my question is, you know, whenever I'm creating these meeting plans and I said, okay, this is the goal, this is what we need to talk about in order to get there. I will estimate the amount of time that we have or that it's going to take to get there. And if you don't have the time in a meeting to achieve your objective, then guess what? You need to split that meeting up, possibly into two meetings.

And you're letting everyone know up front.

Up front.

This is how much. Okay, okay.

This is how much time we have. We have 30 minutes to get through this.

Okay. Yeah. So then people know. Yeah. To dial in to know precisely how much time they're going to give you, they can almost set a mental watch.

Yes.

And they can engage for that time frame. That is such valuable information.

They can engage for that time and it can be very collaborative. You know, don't say you have 30 minutes. We have 30 minutes to get to this point. So I will be keeping an eye on the clock and then the clock becomes your great excuse for shutting down tangents.

Oh, you saved that great one for the end. It's like a very minor consideration. But how important that you're sharing, almost sharing the blame with everyone. You know, we all, we're all in it together.

Oh, yes, Everyone shares the blame.

Oh, wonderful.

And the real bad guy in the room is that clock. Oh, if only we had more time. But you know, that clock. We're down to 10 minutes now. We all need to get out of here.

And Lauren, I wish I could speak to you forever on this topic because speaking of time, we're out of it. But I will be up front and say that Lauren Sergi from Upfront Communication. My goodness, you are providing so much information for so many listeners right now in terms of how you can command a room and how you can get what you want by just setting a meeting and being very upfront about it. I could not thank you more for your. For Your wisdom in this topic.

Well, I'm happy that you gave me the opportunity. I mean, really, we need to make these things easier on everyone. It's our mission now.

It is our mission.

It is better communication, better meetings. Exude that presence. Get the job done.

I am using, so I am going to use this the next time I speak. I'm going to be thinking of you in my core. I guess this is somewhat of a commercial for why people should work out, maybe work on their core, maybe do some sit ups before they present. They got strength in the abs, right?

To be honest, it actually does help that bodily awareness helps you become aware of how you hold yourself. It's interaction speaking. It's a, there's a physical engagement aspect there too. And it's not about becoming a model or developing a six pack or running a marathon. It's just about becoming aware of how much of a toolbox your body can be when you are communicating with other people.

And to not, as you pointed out right in the beginning, it's not about how you look and worrying about that I'm 20 pounds overweight or I don't look a certain way. It's what you do with the body that you have. And people see past any conceived flaws that you may think you have or some strange body dysmorphia that really it's not about what you look like, it's how you're holding, holding yourself. That's where the power is.

That's where it is.

Lauren, thank you so much for speaking with me today about how someone can command a room and get to the point quickly and get to what they want by the end of that meeting. This whole idea of executive presence, you don't hear about it a lot, but oh my, how valuable it really is for any type of executive or business person.

Well, again, Molly, thank you for the opportunity to share this with your audience because it, it really is a wonderful tool to develop whenever you're talking with anybody in life or in work.

And Lauren, you have a website, laurensergi.com and your last name is spelled S E R G Y. And I follow you online. You're on Twitter, which is where you and I first connected.

It is.

And you also have so many good videos out there and there's so many BE speakers out there that will have basic information, you know, how to, how to be a good public speaker, so on and so forth. But you have really detailed videos and how you can amp up your public speaking and communication skills. I would encourage all my listeners just to check out your site and check out your YouTube videos.

Yes, please do come by my YouTube channel. As as Molly said, I've got a load of videos up on there and in particular check out the Communication Q A series. That's where all those question and answer videos are. And definitely I want to extend an invite to all the listeners out there that if you have a little communication conundrum that you would like to receive a three to five minute video response to, please send it to lauren@laurensergi.com and I will add it to the roster and make a Communication Q A video for it.

Communication conundrum. I love that. Not an easy thing to say, but you said it. You articulated it so well. Well, Lauren, thank you so much. And you know I have to speak to you again in the future. So if listeners, if you love Lauren, be happy because she's coming back to this podcast. Thank you so much, Lauren for joining me.

Can't wait for the next time.

Didn't I tell you? Valuable information, Lauren. Thanks again for sharing all of your wisdom with my audience. If you want more information about Lauren, just check out her website, Lauren. She also has a YouTube channel with a lot of valuable tips as well. And keep listening because Lauren will be back on the podcast again soon. That's all for now. Thanks for joining me on today's edition of the Confident Communications Podcast.