83: How to Bridge the Technical Divide Between Leaders and Employees with Colleen McFarland

Baby Boomers, Gen Xers, millennials, the up and coming Gen Z group, all the labels that we attach to the age groups now, whether it's consumerism, social media, use loyalty with your employees. I don't know if you're like me, but do you tend to hear only the negative attributes of the groups? The struggles with connecting or interconnecting from okay, boomer to millennials are the worst. The they're narcissists, they have no loyalty. They want to leave a company as soon as they're hired by the company. Are you someone who looks at the negative aspect of generations that don't occupy the same place as your own? Do you work with people who do? Or is your company culture truthfully now inviting to younger generations? Are you someone who had no idea that a millennial is turning 40 this year? That may mean that you are running a company or working for one struggling with hiring or retention? Oftentimes when I hear negative commentary about the younger generations, I hear a fear of being out of the loop. So if you are having trouble connecting with your younger employees, or if you are a member of a younger generation who feels like it's wrong that a 21st century company is communicating in a 20th century manner, and you'll want to listen to my guest. Colleen McFarland is an organizational change manager who understands the disconnects in today's workplace between leadership and employees. She is the author of the book how to Use People Data to Deliver Realness, Meaning, and Belonging at work. Colleen is empathetic with managers who struggle with making that connection either generationally or technologically. And as you'll hear in the interview, they go hand in hand. It might not be how to make younger employees conform to your standard operating procedure for communicating and managing, but the other way around. So keep listening. Colleen offers valuable, easy to implement changes and updates for connecting with employees internally and connecting with customers externally. And these are good tips. After the interview, I received an email from a CEO client of mine who was sending me a memo to his staff for review. It was in advance of distribution and I gave him a tip that I learned from Colleen in this interview. An idea I never thought of and it was brilliant. It was an excellent idea for sending memos. Want to hear more? Well then, take a listen. Colleen McFarlane, thank you for joining me on the Molly McPherson podcast the Two Mix here. Thanks for talking to me today about your book. I'm excited to hear about it.

Well, you're welcome Molly. I'm excited to be here and thanks for having Me.

Now, the topic that you discuss seems heady. You know, your book, how to use People data to deliver realness, meaning and belonging at work. However, when you get to the guts of it, you are answering a question and solving a problem that I think a lot of leaders, a lot of people working within the C suite have nowadays. And it's understanding how to connect with these younger generations, not just interpersonally, but also through technology, correct?

That's correct. Yeah. The younger generations even remember a time before the Internet. So for them, you know, being online, being what they call in real life, it's just intertwined so that the way they even just approach their everyday is so different than people that are older than them.

I mean, right away, you made a clarifying statement right there, that many people who work in the C Suite, many of these leaders, they remember a time before the Internet. We can hearken back to that very easily. But these workers in our workplace now, you know, the millennials, and now Gen Z coming up, they don't remember a time without the Internet.

I know. Isn't that something?

It is something. It is something. So in my work calling just to let you know, like, I speak with and do workshops with a lot of leaders, C suite directors, people, if I had to spitball it, you know, people over the age of 45, and all of these people want to connect. And I don't want to do a sweeping generalization here, but when I ask them about millennials and what is it like to work with millennials, though the air in the room shifts, I feel the tension come in. And when I ask you, like, what do you think of them? I might get answers like, they're narcissists. They only think of themselves. They're on their phones all day, all day. There's like this negative twinge or taint to it, but what I hear is really fear and fear of not understanding that generation. So your book and your work really kind of delves into that.

Doesn't, does it? Does. And actually, that word fear is really interesting, kind of if you couple it with the word safety. It's a great way to understand this generation that's coming into the workforce now. And at one point of clarification, Molly, as you mentioned, Gen Z vers, millennials, they are quite different, is one of the things I learned in my research. Millennials certainly are very digitally savvy, but they do remember some of them a time before the Internet. This group that's There now, age 25, is the top end of it. They really don't unlike millennials, who really want someone to cheerlead for them and promote them fast. What the youngest generation wants is they want safety, they want reassurance, they want to know that they're working for a good company with a leader who's smart and who they're impressed with and who they can talk about to their friends. So it's different.

Yeah. And it is a good distinction. And thanks for that correction. And I will tell you that I recently learned that, learned this through one of my previous podcast guests, Sarah Wise. She came on the podcast to talk about Gen Z. She's like you. You know, she's a researcher and she's the one that, that pointed out to me, really, for the first time. When I think of millennials, I think of younger. But the older end of the millennials are really not that young. They have families, they are working. You know, they're almost like, you know, middle aged. And she did clarify for me that distinction of what Gen Z is about, and you've touched on it as well, is that safety feature and that there are two distinct groups. But however, I think collectively they represent a group that a lot of leaders and C Suite leaders don't quite understand. So we're going to get into it, and I love that you have ideas and thoughts in work, in industry and community. So let's jump into work right now. What would, what could you share with a member of the C Suite? Any type of leaders about bridging that divide between the two as it relates to work?

One really easy thing that I'm sure they're doing now partially, is they're getting in front of their employees in live forums. So perhaps it's a global town hall for their whole company. What I've seen done effectively, and it's really fun. A great way to digitally engage the folks that are watching it live is to have questions submitted anonymously, but digitally that not only are seen by the folks, but presenting, but are seen by everybody. So imagine, if you will, like someone submitting a question and all of a sudden there's 20 questions up on the screen, but then people in the audience can vote for which ones they think the leaders should answer. And everybody's multitasking because that's what they know how to do, Right? They can listen to you talk and type a question and vote on which one they want to hear. And they're happy to do it, and they think it's fun and it lets the leaders know what they're interested in hearing. So when it gets to The Q and A session. They've got some really good questions to answer that folks here.

Now, Colleen, I. From that application, it sounds like that's something you can do internally. Like a leader could do this internally with their workers, but also externally as well. I know with, you know, with COVID 19, you know, obviously so many of these in person events like annual meetings and town halls with the public now have drifted online. So tell me, how could a leader that perhaps doesn't feel comfortable in that virtual space, what could they do to tap into this generation to help them based on their just natural skill set of those younger generations?

So, so you're asking what could the leader do to get more comfortable in the digital space?

Yeah. In other words, tapping into that, into that demographic, their younger workers. I know just like right now, you know, at the time of this recording, we're into May of 2020, you know, we still into Covid. People are, you know, we've been here for a while now. We're a little worn with it. But now people I believe are accepting of this premise that we have to transition so much of our work online.

Okay.

And, but I know there's a, there's this reluctance that I feel still, you know, with leaders out there because they don't, they don't quite understand it and, and live makes them nervous. Is there anything they can do to tap into their younger workforce to kind of help the process like grease the wheels, so to speak, to get things, you know, to help companies become more effect in a virtual space?

Well, even just to help themselves as a leader, a simple thing is if they're not doing it already is to start having video calls even just with their own team getting comfortable with that. So if you're not doing video calls yet with large groups because you're uncomfortable with it, certainly start at least doing it with your own team because that'll get you there. I really do encourage you to do it with your large groups as well and couple it with the questions being asked live. But I hear you. It could be uncomfortable to do it at first, but you got to do it then. The other thing, I mean, maybe it's also a way to get comfortable doing it is if you are sending emails out to groups of people, is post those on a platform somewhere where people can react to it. And like your internal intranet, a lot of something called yammer where do that. And at first your employees aren't going to be sure that they can actually comment on it. So my advice would be, is if you really do want to get yourself out there digitally with your employees, is post something, have a few people lined up to ask you questions digitally and answer it and have it really be your voice so that people who are observing this see that you've not only written something, but you've asked for questions and you've gotten some and you've responded to them. That'll be fun.

Oh, interesting. Now, and this obviously could be in real time, but could it also be recorded? I mean, is there only a benefit in the real time interaction, or is there something that a leader could record in advance and then roll it out to their staff and they could participate at a later date?

Oh, absolutely. Recording would work too. And that might be a great way to get comfortable doing something digitally, like. Like you asked. So, yes, I mean, the same idea as if you posted a written message, you could post a video, which I think is actually a wonderful idea because people like to see your face. They like to see how you express things. And you don't always get that with the written word. But a short, and I am emphasizing a short video would be appreciated by employees and, and the engagement with it afterward would. Would be the icing on the cake, if you will.

Oh, and I, you know, now my head is, is moving. You know, I always talk to, you know, my clients and on my podcast is use technology to speak to these external audiences. But you are, you are bringing up and illustrating the importance of doing it for your workforce as well. Because what it sounds like you're telling me you're leaders need to speak in the language of these younger employees, that it might build or like reinforce that relationship there. Because you're valuing and meeting them where they are as opposed to where you are as a leader. Correct?

Yeah. Thank you. And I actually love that you just said that. Meet them where they're at. And in my work as a change management leader, I help folks understand that if you're trying to motivate people to do something differently, you need to go where they are and really understand what they're experiencing. And where younger workers are is online. They're there digitally. They're waiting. They're waiting for you to post that video. They want to see that video and they want to get to know you and understand you, and they want to also see how others engage with you digitally. So if you post something and your peer responds to it, that's interesting. And they're watching for that too. The same way you would watch people interact in an in person meeting. They watch how we interact. Digitally.

Oh, fascinating. Okay, so let's move on to industry in general. You touched on that. What would you say to the leader about digital presence for their company or their industry? Like, is there a plan that they need for that?

There really is a plan, and I'm sure that that's something you help people with in your work. And what I would add to it is that what's really neat about the younger workers is they want to be proud of where they work and they want to be smart about the industry they're in. So they are out there reading things about your industry and following thought leaders in your industry. So if you aren't one, become one. And if you aren't one yet, figure out who. Figure out what people are reading about and yourself read it and be one of the commenters. Is your employees will love seeing that you are engaging digitally with other leaders in your industry. That will be interesting to them. And they're there. They're there reading it and watching it. So you need to be there, too.

Okay, so, Colleen, someone. Someone listening right now and they think, okay, I get it. I buy in. Where are they going? What are they doing? What. What would be the beginner's guide for interacting digitally?

Well, I'll tell you what my beginner's guide was because I got into, you know, being more courageous with having a digital presence when a younger person challenged me to network digitally more. She's like, you're an excellent networker. You're so good at connecting people and bringing people together, but you need to do that digitally. And I said, well, what do you mean? She's like, go to LinkedIn. I said, well, I'm already on LinkedIn. Yes, yes, you're on LinkedIn, but you don't comment on anything. You don't share anything. She obviously knew this about me. So I think, think that that's a great beginner's guide. You're on LinkedIn, I'm sure. If you're not, get on there, make sure you like your profile and your picture and start commenting or at least liking things that you see out there, because your employees will see that and that will help them appreciate what's important to you. And then the next, you know, step two would be do some posts yourself. Either share things that others from your company have written and put out there, or do your own articles and posts in that medium. I think it's a really good beginner's medium. And, you know, frankly, I found it really interesting. I've learned a lot just by spending some time on LinkedIn every week. And I don't do it every day, but I, I probably am on there every other day at least reading things. It's a great medium and you are.

Absolutely right about that. Community. I would say within the past seven or eight months or so, I've done a better job myself reaching out to other people and creating these almost mini communities, micro communities of, of like minded people. And we support each other through LinkedIn and especially Twitter, like a Twitter group. But if someone has a question about something or they want to pose, they want to pose a question. Just today on Twitter I was tagged along on this tweet asking opinions about American Airlines and the use of mas and how, and is there any type of PR or reputation management issue down, you know, down the Runway? I'll say on this. And I love that because it's forcing me to think by someone in my community. So certainly if I were a leader in an organization, I could see the benefit of that. So Colleen, beyond LinkedIn, what else is there that you see that's effective for someone if they wanted to dive in just a little bit deeper? Anything else?

You mentioned Twitter. And I have to honestly say I've had trouble myself embracing Twitter, but I've tried, so I would definitely try that. And then the other one that's on my short list is Instagram. Definitely being used to market things. So, so again, on the Beginner's guide, I would, I would add Instagram to your list. And this is actually a great opportunity to do some reverse mentoring and find someone in your company who is very savvy with Twitter and Instagram and spend some time with them, have them show you what they're looking at industry wide, what are they following on those social mediums and it'll be neat.

And that is excellent advice. And I the first barrier that would come up, I think with someone asking a younger person to do that, and I love the term reverse mentoring. Again, it harkens back to that fear, that fear and shame and embarrassment of not understanding it. But the value of not only you learning it, but what you are telling and what you're showing that younger employee is their value of their intelligence and their intellect. And just because it's social media doesn't mean, oh, it's silly. You're on social media all day. It's a powerful medium and one of the most powerful globally. I can see how that would be so effective. Reverse mentoring.

Yeah. And the other thing that I was actually talking to a professional friend about this that seems to not be happening as much as it used to is mentoring of younger adults. And I think part of that is maybe it's what you just said. Maybe it feels awkward to people who've been working for a while that what, you know, they're so savvy with tech skills and they come in, they probably don't think they can learn anything from me. Well, you know what, they can learn a lot from you about what they call in real life skills. You know, in real life skills. You know, bring them along to meetings, have them join you on a conference call and see how you work with your language and with how you get things done live. That's something that they need to learn and you can teach them that. So it can be a great partnership.

And I like that. I like how you frame it in like that in real life, the IRL of bringing that younger generation into it. Because it is true that so much of what they do and experience is done through their hands, you know, through their phones and through computers, you know, digitally. But the power and the expertise and the skill with the, with the Gen Xers and the baby boomers out there is the interpersonal. It's the getting out and standing in front of a room and public speaking. There's a lot of strength there that they can also mentor in return. Okay, Colleen, what about this next area of community? And I love, love that you added community into this because at least for me, I don't immediately think of how can someone interact with a community digitally and find the benefit of it. But of course, now that we're in this post pandemic environment, well, hopefully post soon, but it's still emerging. What are some of the, what are some of the ways that we can bridge this disconnection with the generations through community?

Well, through community, it's really some of the same mediums, whether it's LinkedIn or Facebook or Twitter. But what you're talking about is different. So most companies have different causes that they support, whether it's clean water or performing arts or STEM education. So a lot, you know, understanding what your company supports and being out there in a digital way in your community will cause people to take note, and especially younger workers, because they want to work for a company that's doing good with all of its resources. So they'll be proud to see their leader out there talking about the causes that they're supporting in a very authentic, real way.

Oh, I couldn't agree with you more. And I think now so many leaders, small to medium sized business leaders and Members of the C suite. When they think of merging digital with community, it's putting their youngest staff member on Facebook, on Instagram. Well, why don't you just put this on live or we'll do a town hall on live. And they just think they're just going to put it in the hands of the younger person and they'll manage it, but they, they leap over. The true benefit is it's not just the younger people are there. Your community is there. And if we've learned anything from this pandemic, is that it's not just younger people that can manage themselves digitally. Everyone can. No matter what age you are or where you are, skill wise, there is a power and an importance of having that connectivity with your family, with your work, and also with your community.

Yeah, I think a lot of people have gone up the learning curve fast. That may get a little before. They're not going to leave. Right. They may not be there as often, but even if things settle down, they're going to. They're gonna have seen the benefit of it and they're gonna stay there. So, yes, your community is out there digitally, as are your customers. You know, your marketplace is out there and they're watching you too. They want to understand what your brand stands for. So show them.

Oh, I love such great words. Now, Colleen, tell me, you know, how did you arrive at writing this book? What is your background and what brought you to this book to share your message and share your story.

Thanks, Molly. That's such a great question. I had an opportunity to write a book through an organization called the Creator Institute. And part of their message, when you set out to write a book, is to be open to where the journey takes you. And I thought I was going to write a business book about networking because I have found networking to help me have courage to really embrace my career and do different things. So not necessarily get to business. You know, that's certainly part of it, but was more just to challenge me to grow and develop. So I thought that was the book that I was going to write. And as I started down the process of doing research and collecting data, I was challenged by Eric Custer, who's the leader of the Creator Institute. He's like, well, you know, there's lots of books on networking. Isn't there something that you're just really curious about and you really want to understand better? So I thought about that and where I landed was I wanted to understand younger workers better and what were they struggling with? Because I had a sense through some networking workshops, that I'd done that they were struggling with something different. That coupled with me appreciating that when skills needed to be developed, you need to really understand where someone is at and meet them where they are.

Colleen, you've done such a good job illustrating, you know, the mindset, you know, of a younger person from the point of view of the C suite and the leader. If you had describe, if you could, even though you're not of the generation, but through all your research, if someone had to put themselves in the shoes of, let's say, a younger millennial, someone that's just more digitally minded, what are they thinking? What are they feeling when they're in the office right now, when they are working for Gen Xers, baby boomers? What are some of their struggles and challenges?

Oh, that's such a great question, Molly. And what it really is, is they want to know if they're doing okay, are they doing all right, are they performing well? Is this company also a place where they can stay and grow and develop with and be part of its future? The generational researcher sums it up as they're looking for safety. They want to find a place that they can work hard and be rewarded and stay with, which is very different than I think a lot of folks feel, because millennials, who are the generation above them, they were more into, hey, let me get my skills and let me get out of here and do something. And Gen Zers, I'm understanding, will do that, too, if they don't believe that their company is a company of the future. So, and the other thing that was really interesting is I talked with an author of the Z Factor, Rohan Shaw, and he explained to me that they not only love learning so much and getting skills that they'll work on company problems on their own time. You know, off to the. Oh, yeah. Which I think super fascinating because I'll do this job that you hired me for, but I really also want to help you with this thing over here. So tell me what your challenges are. Tell me what your problems are. Share your, you know, the company information with me, and I will go off because I think it's fun. I really do, and do research and come back with some ideas, and I want to work somewhere that wants to hear my ideas.

Right. So you're busting through a perception that I've certainly heard where people assume if you're a millennial and now Gen Z, well, they. They don't have loyalty. They don't want to stay here. They just want to hop around because they're narcissistic. Well, really, what could be happening is they don't feel valued there. There's no reason for them to invest in this company. But it sounds like if you meet them where they are, give them those digital tools, that they're more likely to stay there.

Right, right. And I would add to that, demonstrate to them that this is a company for the future. You know, share with them information that tells them where you're headed. You know, bring them in. They really want to know. They want to know what are your plans? Do these leaders really know what they're doing? Do they really have a good plan for how we're going to handle the marketplace in the future? Because things keep changing. Are they ready to change too? They want to have confidence in you.

Okay, now, Colleen, wrapping up now. I like to end podcasts with takeaways. So someone listening to this point, they're all in. They. They know what you're saying. They want to buy your book. What are. And they're super excited to make this change and to embrace it. What are three takeaways to leave with a member of the C suite or a leader right now? Right now. Small to mid size, you know, business owner, even corporate, you know, someone that wants to really meet these younger generations where they are. What would three takeaways be for them?

Well, three takeaways would be all related to how they engage digitally. So stopping and really thinking about what am I doing to be digitally present to my employees? You know, how am I showing up? What kind of person am I putting in front of them? So that's number one and then number two in the industry, how am I showing up digitally in the industry? What am I known for out there in my world? And then lastly in the community, if someone were to say that I am active in the community, what would they say about me in the community digitally?

Oh, Colleen, this was fascinating. Thank you so much for taking the time to speak with me. I. This is going to resonate. It's going to stick in my brain. It's called sticky information. I think this is going to be very helpful for the people who I work with and the workshops and just my own mindset. You've really adjusted it that we need to meet these generations because they can make us look better and they can help our business as well. So thank you for opening that up and illustrating the importance of it.

You're welcome, Molly. It's been a pleasure. I really enjoyed speaking with you on it.

Now, where could people find your book?

It's really easy. They can go to Amazon.com and type in the word disconnected and type in my last name, McFarland, which is just McFarland.

And it will pop right up.

Pop right up.

Well, I'll use. I will include a link to your book in the show notes so you can find it. So people can find it there. Colleen, thank you so much. And. And I cannot send you off, though. How can people find out more about.

You, more about me? LinkedIn. I love meeting with people digitally, but also in person once we're able to socialize again in person. If anyone's ever in Chicago and wants to get together for coffee, I'm a big networker, so happy to do that. But also, of course, hop on the phone anytime.

Not that this matters, but does it make you a Cubs fan or a White Sox fan?

I'm a huge Cubs fan. I live a mile from Wrigley Field. And you do season this year? Yeah, that's. That's a big part of my life. We walk to games, my family and I. Yeah.

Oh, do you live, like, off of Waveland somewhere?

Like, just off of Addison, Half block.

Oh, Alpha Addison. Oh, gosh. I know it well. I know it well, even though I'm more of a Fenway person, but. But no. What a great place to live and great information. Colleen, thanks for taking the time to speak with me. It was really helpful. I know it's helpful to the listeners, but I learned a lot as well, and I know that I'll be able to use it in my work. So thanks so much.

You're welcome, Molly. It's been a pleasure.

I want to thank Colleen McFarland for joining me on today's podcast. Her book, published in April, disconnected How to Use People Data to Deliver Realness, Meaning and Belonging at Work, is out now. You can go to the Show Notes for a link to buy the book. My thanks to Colleen McFarland and my thanks to you for listening. Bye for now.