88: Being Black in the White Workplace. A perspective on race-related challenges from Cedric Brown

Many big US companies and their leadership spoke out publicly over the course of the past few weeks about the killing of George Floyd while in the custody of Minneapolis police. Most of those messages were calling for unity, condemning racism and vowing to make a change. If you are a business or work for a business that is still wondering if you should make a statement, I will direct you to a video I posted on YouTube answering that question. If you you should make a statement or not, I've included a link to the video in the show notes, or you can head on over to my YouTube channel. The statements you hint hint should have made should be peppered with words like diversity, inclusion, equality, employees, racial culture, inclusive. But you know that words are empty if there are no actions behind the words. Many companies now want to follow through on those statements, but in order to do that, you need to know how to become more inclusive to your employees, especially the ones the professionals of color. How do you bring diversity into the workplace if you do not employ black or brown employees and if you do have professionals of color working for you or with you, gut check which position do they hold at your company? Do you know what their aspirations are in the workplace or are they in an admin position and you've never asked how are they treated? Do people in the workplace, in your workplace, see color or do they pride themselves in never seeing color and treating everyone equally? I believe strongly there are a lot of people out there in the majority, white people, who have never even thought about the black experience, really thought about it until June of 2020. Or if you have, you at least are thinking about it in a much different way. For the first time now, I've heard from clients personally. They are committed to racial equality and know that racial disparity is exists in their own organizations, but they're not quite sure where to start, where to look, or who to ask about it. Well, I offer a solution to that problem with my guest, Cedric Brown. Cedric is a digital strategist who writes and tweets about racial justice activism and public relations. I read Cedric's column every month in PRSA's strategies and tactics. We are both APRS accredited in public relations for PRSA and I am an avid follower of his on Twitter. I asked Cedric to be on the podcast this week after I read an article he penned for another association, the prca. That's a public relations and communications association, another one I belong to, about being a professional of color at a predominantly white workplace and how it can create its own unique set of challenges and particular Kinds of stress. I wanted you to hear firsthand from a professional of color, a black man armed with a master's degree from Newhouse School of Public Communications at Syracuse University. I wanted you to hear his insight on implicit bias and microaggressions against professionals of color. I urge you to take a listen to Cedric's story. Cedric Brown, thank you for joining me on the podcast to talk about such an important topic.

Yeah, thank you, Molly, very much. It's. It's been a great opportunity to be able to express my voice on several matters that is that's going on right now. And I've been following you as well and interested in some of the things you've been up to, and so I'm looking forward to this.

So, Cedric, you had mentioned about this is an important topic right now. I was a fan, and first of all, I love people who work in PR that are passionate about the practice of public relations, and you have always been one of those people to me. I read your column monthly in the PRSA newsletter, Strategies and Tactics. So I'm always drawn to what you write. And in January, you wrote an article about diversity and inclusion. Very prescient topic that you wrote about in January. And now here we are in June 2020. Of course, the events that happened in Minneapolis, in my hometown, St. Paul, Minneapolis, that has spilled out around the country and, of course, globally. And that led me to another article of yours that I saw that you wrote for prca, which is another organization that I'm involved in. Are you in prca, Cedric, or did they ask you to write a column?

They reached out to me and asked, kind of the way you're. You've been interested in my writings. I was reached out to by Mary Beth West. She owns her own firm out in, I believe, Knoxville or, yes, Tennessee. And, yeah, she had been following my stuff, too, and was wondering if I could contribute something to prca.

Yeah, and it just goes to show about the Twitter community. I know Mary Beth well and PRC as well, and with prca, so I was happy to see your article pop up because, again, it's so timely and I loved it. I want to really prove Black Lives Matter. It's all about fear. And what grabbed me about your use of the word fear and your subtitle of Fear, False Evidence Appearing Real is that fear is something that comes into my work a lot. When I work with people who may not feel comfortable using social media or feel comfortable putting their ideas and their opinions out there for the public. There is this inherent fear kind of lurking underneath. Well, you're calling it out in this article right away about proving black lives matter and fear. So could you tell me what brought you to write this article?

Yeah, no problem. Mary Beth and I were kind of thinking about ways to really take advantage. Not take advantage, I should say, but help the PR profession be relevant to what's going on right now. And so at first, honestly, I wasn't sure what to write about when I was initially asked. I was telling Mary Beth that usually when people ask me to write about something, they give me more of a concrete topic and that helps me kind of formulate my thoughts. But with this one, I had a day to think about it. And when I look back, I just thought about some of the wrongs and some of the, the missteps that organizations often take with my peers. So I wanted to be able to speak to some of the things that are going on in these agencies and organizations because everybody can put out a statement about black lives and how it matters. But are you really treating your employees and how are you really approaching diversity? Is it a, a check off box for you or are you really investing in the black and brown talent that you have? So that's ultimately what brought me to write about the things I want organizations to stop doing and start doing.

And I see this, as you just said, as that next level. I mean, certainly when, when all of this happened initially over the past two weeks, it was a question of how does an organization respond? And the answer, at least that I came to from my point of view, from the research, is you must, because responding publicly, you're making a stand, you know, to your customers, certainly in the public, but also to your internal stakeholders, your employees. And I think this article speaks to that next step. Well, now you have to walk the walk and tell your employees what kind of organization you have and how supportive you are going to be of people who are black and brown and need to see some changes in their workplace. The first point that you talk about is bringing someone in a person of color, black or brown. Tell me about the, the entry level, like coming in at that entry level. What should it look like now for an employee coming in new to an organization?

When you're in an organization and you're bringing on somebody for their first full time job, you should have the expectation that, yeah, you can do some of the basics and you should automatically have faith that that person will grow and develop into somebody that can lead your organization or that can lead another organization, hopefully not your competitors, but you should be Proud if that person comes away with the skills based on what you were able to teach them. But what I hear about happening often is organizations are pretty tired about talking about the diversity and inclusion narrative. And people and leaders are often just wondering, all right, what can we do to get people off of our backs? And they think they'll be doing something about the problem by bringing in an entry level professional or two. You know, maybe they believe in their talent. Maybe it's just, all right, let's just do this thing so people will leave us alone and they'll give them opportunities. But if you look at maybe one of their white peers, the white peers might be working on things like press releases or advising on social media strategy at that entry level. But oftentimes a black or person of color or professional of color, I should say, you know, they might be entrusted with the multicultural projects or sitting at the front desk and other things that leaders normally don't like to do, like manual labor and just uninteresting work. And so oftentimes that the entry level employee will feel bored with their work, but also their leader or their manager will criticize them for not meeting expectations that weren't defined clearly to begin with. So ultimately, it becomes a waste of time for both the organization, because their heart wasn't in it to begin with, and then it's a waste of time for the employee too, because they start to, they start to grow that resentment towards organizations in general. But, you know, they wasted months, days trying to work at a place and make their employer happy when the employer didn't give them the same tension or respect.

In your article, you mention the savior mentality. Is this what happens when someone does check a box? They feel like they're saving someone by bringing them into a position, but then they just forget about them?

Yeah, absolutely. So the savior mentality is. And then we'll be a little bit political here. It's common among liberal white people. They often see people of color, professionals of color, as downtrodden, disadvantaged, and have that sympathy like, oh, it's so much harder for them to get opportunities. Well, maybe we could just give them something and hopefully they'll be happy with it. But that's a bad mentality to have too, because when your employee expresses dissatisfaction or questions the assignment that you give to them, then you get defensive about what the assignment is that you gave to them. You're being entitled because you're thinking that, well, I gave you this thing to do and nobody else would have given you this thing to do. Why aren't you bowing down to me and being appreciative. But if you're gonna have a savior mentality, you're better off just not hiring at all a black person or any diverse professional. It has to be done intentionally with the hope that that person will develop. And that's often not happening.

Cedric, let me ask you a little bit here about your background. You are in prsa. You are an apr. You're accredited in public relations, as am I. That shows a commitment to the profession. We're not going to rule out that public relations firms are not guilty of doing the same thing. Tell me about your background. Did you work in firms where you felt that you were discriminated against and that it's easier to work for yourself? What's your journey as it applies to work and also diversity or racism? And racism, sure.

So my story is a bit interesting because I got my bachelor's degree in marketing and management from a small Michigan college and I found that I was interested in public relations in one of the terms of my freshman year, but I didn't want to transfer schools because that's expensive and a headache, to be honest. So I was getting PR experience as a student assistant. And when I graduated I realized that PR was something that I wanted to do, but it might be difficult because I didn't have a formal PR education. So what I offered to do was for local grassroots groups and organizations in Detroit, Michigan, which is where I'm from, would offer to write press releases and do a little bit of social media help. And I really thought that's all public relations entailed, was raising awareness. In the meantime, I was working for full time jobs in four years and I lost all four of those jobs. And it really became a question of what am I really doing with my life? Why don't I care about the work that I'm doing? So I had a lot of marketing gigs and I had one PR internship at a boutique firm. But that firm was really struggling at the time, very few clients, so wasn't really a great experience. So I decided I wanted to learn about PR from an academic perspective and really get trained on it and get the practice. So that's why I decided to go get my master's degree at Syracuse University's Newhouse School. And pretty. It was a pretty great time. It worked just the way that I thought of it. I networked my butt off, got to do multiple assignments related to pr and you know, going back to just my working experience, I would say personally most of the racism that I've experienced were basically microaggressionists. And so at one organization, I remember I did a research project and I brought back a thorough project and my supervisor or my manager was saying, wow, this is really good. And she's like, very surprised, as if she thought that would bring back an adequate project. Keep in mind that I'd been working for four or five years at this point, so I wasn't quite an entry level professional. I was an account executive, had an understanding of what it means to do complete and thorough work. But it was things like that. And then also, you know, being told that the way I express myself in certain groups was inappropriate or uncomfortable.

Cedric, how were you expressing yourself that they told you this?

All right, so I'm not gonna lie. I can swear a bit in the office, but it's more of just an expression of different emotions. Is not out of anger. But I also like to be sarcastic and kind of be funny because that helps me lighten up my mood. And I'd like to try and lighten up the mood for other people too. But in certain groups, in certain circles at this particular organization, it wasn't welcome. Yet at the same time, I recognized the person that would make that comment. It was anonymous, but I learned about who. I had a hunch who made that comment. And the same person would literally go on 10 minute rants about her children and not appreciating or having a headache from dealing with them and making inappropriate comments about their race. They were mixed children and she was always complaining about them. And I would have to sit in those types of meetings. But I can't be myself because that's inappropriate.

Now, as someone who is. I consider myself to be sarcastic. I also will drop my bombs when I have to as well. I don't think that's just. That's just safe for. To say that only angry people do this. But did you feel that, that you call it a microaggression, but did you take that as racism? Because I have to assume if you're at an agency, other people are going to swear, speak up or joke and be sarcastic. But were you the only one who was called out for it?

I can only speak for myself because these. This was feedback that was given to me by my direct supervisor. It was three feedback. So it was based on any manager or leader in the company that I had worked with, with. And we all knew that there was this one particular leader that had a history of microaggressions and also even blatant racism towards black professionals in the office. So when I gotten the piece of feedback back, I had a pretty good hunch of who it came from. It just feels hypocritical. That was something. The microaggressions were something I was able to brush off because I learned to just let my work speak for itself.

There's a freedom in that. I spoke with a friend, someone who's in my Twitter world, and she is a professional of color. She is a fabulous black public relations pro, and she was sharing with me a very similar story, that if she would speak up or speak out about anything or speak a little bit louder in the room, she was labeled as an angry black woman. And how quickly it got there, whereas any other white woman would speak the same way or worse. They were never labeled as such. What are these other type of microaggressions that maybe someone a white person in an office may not recognize, but if you were a professional of color, you notice it all the time. Anything else?

Yeah. So microaggressions can be things like making comments about somebody's or a professional's look or appearance. I seen with my own eyes one of our leaders walk up to one of our black professionals because she had a unique hairstyle or a very nicely done set of braids. And because she didn't recognize her, she thought she didn't belong there. But when she turned around, like, oh, this is you. You got a nice new hairstyle. But it was still a very awkward moment. And then there are. There are other things, too, like, you know, when you're in a group of people that you don't really share a race or ethnicity with or really any hobby in common with, you can feel alienated. And that's a microaggression, too. Leaving people out of conversations because they don't fit what you think they should be. And there's also the. The offhanded racist comments or, yeah, you don't talk like a black person. That's something that I. Quite often.

You hear that quite often.

Oh, I heard it a lot growing up, but not so much in a workplace now. And then there's. There's comments like, oh, you're very well polished for a black person. That's really the one that will trigger a lot of people because as I speak to it in my article, it's. Professionalism is often based on white and European standards. But there's more than one way to express professionalism. That's what PR and really all organizations need to understand and work on.

Okay, before I ask what organization, what managers can do to make that change. I want to ask you about a situation that came up with me this week. I was conducting a virtual training and I was. It was a room full of people from around the country, I will say though, Southern, Midwest, south couple in Michigan. And we were talking about diversity and in offices and also on boards where it's an elected position in a local area, if you will, like a local county. And we were talking about the appearance of an all white board. And the board of directors also happened to be all male. And the issue at hand was, okay, we know we need diversity, we need women, we need people of color on this board, but we're primarily a white county. And the people who are on the board are the only people that apply to be on the board, you know, so that's why they're here. And someone else had, had said as well, well, the people who are on the board right now are the people who are the best represented. These, they were elected to this position and that's why they were chosen. So you can imagine there was some discussion back or forth about that. But to solve a problem here, what could a business, whether it's hiring in a local area or it's appointing positions, and it's the same people, so they're always white, or it's predominantly men. What are some of the active changes that people could do to bring more diversity? Is it reaching out to people or is it just opening up and communicating to them? Like, what do you think? Could you walk me through that a little bit?

So in the example that you provided, that's a perfect scenario of fear and what that looks like false evidence appearing real. So this board of white folks and white men that you speak of, they're likely operating from the fact that if they bring in somebody that looks different from them, that they're worried about making an offensive comment or worried about they might go against the grain. And so organizations in general just have to be comfortable and get over that fear of, you know, somebody going against what you say. Something that happens or that I've seen happen a lot in organizations is that they're hiring, they lean towards black professionals or diverse professionals that don't speak out, that are likely to keep their, their issues in house or to themselves, or that they won't push back when there's an issue. And so, you know, in the example that you provide of an all white male board, you know, they have to be seen out in the community that they want to attract. If your board is really a monolith, it's because you're only hanging around the same people. And that's not how you're going to retract or attract talent from different pools. You have to be there to show up and do the work, to show that you care. So that's kind of similar to what pr, The PR executives need to do is to be seen, engage with diverse groups to give them something to look forward to and look up to.

Okay, so it is the action, the proactive action of getting out and saying we are actively seeking people of color, people of a different gender, like just coming right out and saying it.

Yeah, absolutely. And you also honest that you. You have to say explicitly that, you know, we're worried about our voices being all the same. We need somebody different. We welcome that challenge. It might be uncomfortable for us first, but we're willing to develop that person and to listen to that person and work on making the necessary improvements.

Yeah, I think for white people that they may be concerned that it sounds like reverse racism in a way that if we are very explicit in what we're saying and it's so intentional, does that almost look racist? But now what I'm hearing from you is no, you need to see color, correct?

Yes. It's important that we all see color because it'll give you an understanding that somebody's experiences are different from yours, and that's perfectly okay. Our world is filled with different people. But when we learn to accept the way that we all show up and the differences that consist of us all, then we learn what we have in common. I've wrote about this, too, and strategies and tactics to move towards that. That common goal and achievement that we all want to work towards. And hopefully that's the idea of just being great at whatever you do.

Cedric, I have to ask you this question because it's come up so much in the conversation of race, and I'm going to admit right here, most of my conversations, the majority, have been with other white people. And a phrase that I've heard a few times over and over, and it is said in the spirit of equality, to me nowadays, sounds anything but. It's when someone will explain, hey, I treat black people the exact same. I don't see color. Everyone is equal in my eyes. What does that statement actually mean to someone who is black?

You're ignoring their experience. And that's one of the wrong things to do. Believe it or not, black professionals and diverse professionals will often have a different upbringing from what you have. 400 years of systemic racist practices from all Institutions have given white people a 400 year head start on what it takes to really be quote, unquote, successful in achieving American dreams. So when you're saying that you're being colorblind, it's just turning your back on the fact that we're not all the same. And you might say that everybody is equal, but that's not true. We don't have equality right now. We're not all raised the same way. And so you need to be able to acknowledge that there are differences and be able to ask and be willing to listen to what those differences are and be interested in saying, what can I do to help authentically without being defensive?

And that sounds like another microaggression that you had mentioned. So let's now look at the organization, the firm, the nonprofit they are now in. They're saying, I'm learning. We're changing in June 2020, going forth. We're going to change our policies. We are going to understand our black employees. We're going to recruit more black employees. Tell me about once you start to do that. You had mentioned in your article, start accepting the fact that black professionals are not all the same. What does that mean?

So in my article Finding Common Ground that was written in March for Strategies and Tactics, I talk about the idea that there are a whole bunch of subcultures that make up any professional of any race, ethnicity, orientation and gender too. So for instance, I am a avid Los Angeles Dodgers fan, even though I'm from Detroit. But you might find.

Well, of course you are, because what are you going to be a Tigers fan?

Well, I like the Tigers too. They falling on hard times right now.

Yeah.

But yeah, I'm one of those guys that has two favorite baseball teams, one in it.

Hey, Cedric, I'm the same way. Boston Red Sox, Washington National. So it's safe to say I am not a Dodgers fan. I'm just going on the record with that. But carry on.

Yeah, no problem. Congratulations on your World Series, man. But yeah, we're not all the same. You can't operate with stereotypes with black people. We don't all like rap music and R B. There are black professionals that do like country music. You know, we all watch shows like Power and Empire. There are black Star wars mans. And so it's really all about not treating us as a monolith. There are different subtleties that every professional comes with that we all need to learn about because it'll help cater certain experiences to be more personable.

Yeah. And therein lies, I think some of the Struggle. Because on the one hand you're saying we want you to see color, that we don't want you to say, I see no color that you want to see the black experience. But at the same time, don't assume if you do that all of it is the same, that we are in some ways just like you. So there's a separation yet, a mixing and understanding and a collaboration that needs to be happening mutually. It's like, I guess just as a mutual respect, that if you get away from any type of discrimination, it will naturally form itself, that you just really need to see people for who they are. Correct, Correct.

And I recently just thought of something. You know how you have the color blue? Like, if you're using marketing or promotional material.

Go ahead, say Dodger blue. Go ahead.

But the thing is there's multiple shades of blue, right?

There's blue.

Yes. There's navy blue, there's Columbia blue, there's Seattle Seahawks blue, whatever that is. But that's the same way with black people. Like, we're not just the same color code or Pantone code. You should treat us differently. There's multiple shades of black and brown too, that every professional deserves to be treated like their own unique person.

Okay, well spoken. I'm going to, next time I do this in person, I'm going to talk, I'm going to bring out a color wheel. And the reason why I said Dodger blue is because, honestly, I was looking at Dodger blue yesterday. But you're absolutely right. You can look at blue just as a blue. But a Dodger blue is much different than a periwinkle blue and it may not necessarily match with something or it will complement a color quite well. So nicely put, Cedric. I like that. So once the black employee is there, the professional of color is in the office. And now we're speaking to the manager, the hiring manager, the CEO, you know, upper level management. How can they start being more forthright to a professional of color as they come in? What's next once they're in the door? What does an organization post June 2020 look like now that's operating on all cylinders and they're doing all the right things.

You have to have a clear, concrete discussion about what promotional opportunities and advancement looks like. Like, it has to be clearly mapped out and you also have to give them, give them the time ranges that one can be expected to be promoted within. And if you're going to do something like 360 feedback or any kind of feedback system, it should be based on something that's completely measurable. You know, I remember some of my performance reviews had called me out for my unique personality. I remember.

Is that a euphemism for what?

You know, they cited some examples of my interactions with certain staff members that I might have been unaware that were offensive or problematic. But the point that I come back to is just that I got marked for the very same thing on three different areas. And it's like, okay, guys, I get your point. And the areas that I was marked down on were. So they were interrelated, but at the same time, they were different areas that you made your point the first time, but you're scoring me down, in effect, to give a reason not to give me my raise.

To give you your raise. So is that microaggression, Cedric? Is that racism?

Yeah. Because I wouldn't say it's not intentional. I don't believe. But it's steeped in this standard, again, that all forms or professionalism is measured in white cultural norms. But that's the problem. I'm not the standard or typical professional. And you shouldn't expect all of your employees to be one way. And if you have company values, then those. When you're doing that performance review, your personality should be measured against those company values. They need to be clearly stated and not just something arbitrary that you came up with.

Okay, so without clear policy, without clear change, it sounds as if nothing's going to happen. If I have this correct, then if I were counseling an organization on changes that they can make now they. They truly want to make these changes. They're speaking from the heart. They're speaking and living the values of their organization. What are the actual things that they can do? It sounds like you're saying, talk to the professionals of color in your office right now, or while you're interviewing them and have a conversation, have, you know, tangible skills written down and skill sets that you require, but also give them actual skills that will challenge them, not something that they feel like they can fill a quota. Is that it? Is that you just need to open the doors to more conversation.

Exactly. And when we do have those conversations and when we're talking about the things that. That bother us, it's not a matter of there's a right or wrong answer. The worst thing you can do, again, is deny that we're having a different lived experience than yours. And so when we come to you with our problems, we're expecting that there will be a difference or action steps taken to prevent that situation again. And if no progress is made, then we'll get disinterested, we'll tune out, and we'll say to ourselves the same thing in a different organization. So you have to be willing to listen without being defensive and be willing and open to the challenge of making those adjustments and doing things differently than what you're used to.

Well said, Cedric. Well said. So clearly, to be an organization now, and certainly when I counsel my clients and even on the podcast, it's one thing to decry racism by making a statement or putting a black tile on Instagram with some words next to it. There needs to be actual action, and it needs to be seen outside of the four walls of your business and also inside of them. One company that I think you and I would both be in agreement that has really stood up to this decrying racism and supporting the Black Lives Matter movement is Ben and Jerry's. And their statement really was a loud statement about we must dismantle white supremacy and silence not being an option. So I was not surprised in the least to find out that you had worked on a project with them. Could you tell me more about that project, that delicious project?

Sure. When I was at Advancement Project From June of 2019 to May of this year, year, they launched the ice cream flavor called Justice Remix. And so the flavor itself is chocolate and cinnamon ice cream with spicy fudge brownie pieces. It's not spicy spicy like hot tamales, but there's a cinnamon kick into it and then also cinnamon bun pieces. And so that was part of a relationship that Ben and Jerry's has had with Advancement Project national office for about a year. And so Ben and Jerry's was helping advancement project in St. Louis, where they were trying to get this pretrial detention facility closed. The facility itself is all decrepit, extreme heat, brutal, cold. And keep in mind, people are in pretrial detention even if they haven't been accused or committed of a crime. They're just there because they can't afford their bail. So Jerry's, when we talk about systemic racism, they partner with Advancement Project to kind of help put an end to that facility. They've also helped advance the project in Miami, too, where there's been a discussion and a movement to invest more in school counselors in the Miami Dade Public school system and to remove police officers. We're seeing a lot of conversation about that. So the ice cream flavor that came out on Labor Day weekend was really to capitalize on all forms of that work. And it serves as an opportunity to get people talking about systemic racism and I would say that it's definitely achieved its goals. And then on my end, because I was working for Advancement Project as the digital strategist, I had to find ways to connect Ben and Jerry's work and their support and draw it back to the support that Advancement Project uses and needs to be able to go out into the country and get those small wins, like getting people protected from COVID 19 that are incarcerated, and also working to make sure all school systems are. Have defunded police from their educational environment.

What an interesting mix. And what a fulfilling job to work with these organizations, especially as a black man, and to work towards understanding and spreading more awareness on racial inequality, but also to do it with a corporation that just stands so firmly behind it. That must. It sounds like incredibly rewarding work.

Yeah, absolutely. I had the chance to also speak to a couple of universities about it, namely Syracuse University, which is my grad school alma mater. I believe I talked to a little bit with University of Nebraska, Lincoln, James Madison, among others across the country. And it was just a new way to introduce Advancement Project, which is a national organization, to different audiences. And it really touched me that the students in Syracuse, and it was predominantly white students, I think I saw only a black student there that night to be interested and engaged with our core messages and our core issues that we're really trying to solve in order to address systemic racism. So it definitely was a valuable experience that I'll never forget.

Well, it sounds wonderful. And when people ask, what does it look like if I say something, what should I say? What could I do? I always lead people. Start with Ben and Jerry. Just go to benjeri.com and just take a look of what standing up to racial equality looks like. And so this as an aside to settle discussion in my household, when we were talking about Justice Remixed and we were talking about the flavors, it's the market in me. I pass it down to my kids when it's. Is there a reason why it was cinnamon and chocolate ice cream and cinnamon bundo and all that? Was there anything behind that or was it just a mix of flavors? It's a silly question, I know, but we talked.

No, it's fine. The flavor came about before I arrived at the organization, but as we like to explain it, it represents the black and brown people of this nation. And the cinnamon and the spicy brownies represent the fire and the kick that we all need to have to be able to stand up for our rights. We're working to achieve justice for all and not justice for some.

Oh, there you go, that's why Ben and Derry's does such a great job. Cedric, you know, I'm such a fan and everything you said, I'm always learning, but, man, I learned so much more with you. I want to thank you for taking the time to speak with me. And I'm going to include a link to both of your articles in the show notes and I'm going to introduce this word of fear. And I'll give you full credit for you. I'm swiping it, but we'll give you where credit is due. It really is what people are looking at right now. It's this false evidence that appears real and we just have to stop and really talk and have conversations with black employees. And if you don't have professionals of colors, you need to correct and you need to have those conversations to make sure that you bring them in and then what they do that they feel that they are doing the work that they want to do and they feel welcome there.

Absolutely. We all just need to have these conversations and we all need to be willing to get uncomfortable so that we can move towards a point where we're all comfortable and we're not hiding our true selves in any aspect of our lives. You know, it's. It's really draining as a black professional to feel like you have to be one way at work, but another way with your friends. And so me personally, I'm striving for authenticity where I could be my whole self no matter where I'm at.

Well, Cedric, I'm so happy that you brought your whole self and your authentic self to the podcast today because I know people are listening and hopefully people will do something having listened to what you had to say. Thank you so much, Cedric.

Yeah, thank you, Molly. It's been a pleasure.

My pleasure as well. Thanks. Thanks so much for listening to this episode of the podcast. For more information on my guest Cedric Brown, you can find him online on Twitter at A Brother Named Cedric, which I love that handle. I have a link included in the show notes. If you are a member of prsa, you can check out Cedric's monthly column. PRSA also tweets out the column as well. And you can also read the article written by Cedric that inspired today's podcast on the PRCA website. I will include a link to that article as well. I also wanted to mention about a project that's coming up soon, very soon. It's something to help communicators with their response. Now, if you've been listening to the podcast back In March, I had mentioned that I released a COVID 19 response kit. This was my way to help and serve communicators who are struggling in their work with communication. Communications during this new, uncharted territory of how to communicate during a pandemic. I didn't necessarily have all the answers at the time, but I was spending all of my time and efforts doing that because I lost a lot of my work, a lot of my speaking and training gigs. So I wanted to take the time to take the resources that I did have, update them, upgrade them for a pandemic. I posted them online, I talked about it on the podcast, and. And I was absolutely amazed by the response, amazed by the community that gathered online. I met so many new people, people I still communicate with today, and all of them all needed the same help and support. So now that we're in a sustaining phase of the pandemic, hopefully soon to come out of it, I've been working with my team to expand the COVID 19 kit. The result is Response Kit. It is a place for communicators to get resources for any of their issues. So nowadays you have so many resources, especially coming from the pandemic, but you may not know how to use them. So the response kit is going to help you implement all of those resources. So if you're someone who struggles to create relevant content in a crisis, or if you're having problems getting leadership to buy into the need for updated communications, the need for an updated website that will bring people to a hub for news and communication, this is going to be the kit for you. This is going to help you. The response kit will help you connect with your audience using the right channels. My goal is to help people craft and deliver the right messages at the right time and in the right place, if you know what I mean. So if you listen to this podcast, you already know what the response kit is about. So you can head on over to the website right now and sign up. ResponseKit.com is going to be launching soon, but right now we're gathering all the names of the people who will be introduced to the response kit at a special, special rate. So if you want more information, head over to theresponsekit.com thanks so much for listening. You can follow me on twitter @molly McPherson and I look forward to communicating with you again next week. Bye for.