3. Dr. Casey Means: Finding Optimal Metabolic Health through Ancient Wisdom

I was very overweight growing up, and When I was 14, I went to the library, checked out a bunch of books about food, and then in the course of about six months, lost this extra £50 I've been carrying my childhood. And so I was like, oh, wow, food. If I learn about it and understand it, like, I can change my life. And so really understood the power of whole, real unprocessed foods at an early age. And then I go to the medical world, Stanford Medical School, surgical residency, and all of a sudden, like, none of that conversation of, like, the power of food is a part of the conversation. And then I sort of more broadly realized there's a lot of hypocrisy, I think, in healthcare because a lot of the ways that doctors are living and medical students are living is so deeply unhealthy and, like, actually antithetical to what we know promotes health. So you've got all these people, unfortunately brilliant minds, brought into a system where they're unhealthy and they're not really learning as much about, you know, continuing education on healthy behaviors and lifestyle.

The following is an operation podcast production. Welcome to Rooted in Wellness with me, Mona Sharma. A podcast focus on shifting your vibration from imbalance to balance, allowing your body to heal and thrive naturally in a modern world that often challenges our well being. We'll explore how to navigate through these obstacles to emerge rooted in your health, yourself, and your life. Drawing upon the wisdom of ancient healing practices merged with the latest scientific research. From growing up living on an ashram, recovering from two heart surgeries, to becoming a celebrity nutritionist. I'll guide you on this beautiful journey of becoming rooted in wellness. So beautiful. I was so excited for today. First of all, because you and I were sitting at Soho House not so long ago talking about our big dreams and our ideas, all of our frustrations about the food system and what's out there and just the level of impact that we wanted to make. And here we are about to talk about your new book.

Yes, it feels full circle. What a beautiful journey.

Thank you for being here. So, Dr. Casey means this podcast is called Rooted in Wellness. And really the intention is to help every person just get rooted in themselves, rooted in their bodies again, rooted in their spirit and their life. And so to start off, I would love to know, what are two or three things that help you feel more rooted in your life, Things that make you feel really good.

I would say the things I'm doing right now that make me feel so grounded is all in the morning. And it's the moment that I wake up, my boyfriend and I go outside, we put our feet in the grass, we raise our hands to the sky, you know, and. And just really take in this beautiful universe that we're a part of, Sit down, do a brief meditation. There's a beautiful healing crystal in our backyard that we sit near, have our feet in the ground. And so it's sunshine, it's awe, it's gratitude, it's breath. And it's just connecting with these elements that all are a part of us and that we're a part of, and just starting the day that way. So that's what makes me feel so grounded.

And can I dive in on that a little bit more? Because like this, the power of the morning is really standing out in a lot of these interviews that I'm doing. How does it make you feel? Like, what's the feeling, the emotion behind it?

The emotion that I have when my feet hit the grass and I'm really taking in the sky, it's. It's a sense of. I mean, the really body awareness feeling is a sense of total stability, expansion, vibration. I think those are the things that I feel and. And expansion and elevation. I think an elevation of, you know, feeling like I'm transcending maybe just this self, which is, of course, like what we're all trying to do. Right. We're trying to connect with that, that bigger picture, that spirit realm, universal source energy. So it's such a beautiful question that you asked, because what I wanted to say initially was I feel calm and I feel grateful and I feel a sense of awe, but none of those are actually true sensations. I think it's beautiful to actually tap into what is the physical embodiment that you're having. And, you know, it's a struggle in our culture to name those feelings because we've been trained to be so much in the head rather than the body. So it literally takes a second to go back to that moment and think, like, how did my body actually feel?

Yeah, that is exactly it. You nailed it. So part of the inspiration also is because I think when people are hearing about these practices that are now becoming. Becoming Instagram worthy and checklist worthy, people are practicing them mindlessly. Right. Without really tuning into the emotion behind it and the physiological impact of all the things, which, by the way, everything that you mentioned is free. Yeah, right. So on the flip side, tell us about some of these things that make you feel uprooted, because I think that a lot of people out there who are suffering, who are not feeling at their best, are practicing things without even realizing that they're uprooting their health and their happiness. So for you, what are things that. When you catch yourself, what makes you feel uprooted?

Ooh, what a great question. So in terms of uprooted, I think just kind of going back to the feeling in the body like that. It's such an. It's such a different sensation in the body. It's. It's. It's disembodied. It's. It's scattered. It's more chest feeling. I feel myself often feeling pressure in my chest when I feel uprooted. And like.

Yeah.

And very much like I've lost the firm connection to anything. So maybe flighty in a way. And I think that the things that honestly make me feel uprooted would be being on technology too much. So if I am just sort of more mindlessly spending time on devices in that disembodied place, I think it's when I am drinking alcohol, which I'm pretty much off now, I think that makes me feel uprooted. I think that. I think it's when I'm not saying no enough. And so if I'm not clear on my priorities and I'm letting there be sort of like a boundary leak, and when I'm doing too much, like, I think it's when I'm saying yes to too many things, even if they're things that, you know, are generally things I like to do. If I'm moving too fast and always on the go, I lose a little bit of my connection to source and I lose a bit of the. The deep. The connection to the deep river of inspiration and calm that is ultimately what I'm looking for in life. So, yeah.

Beautiful. And, you know, I love that you point that out, because I think a lot of people, you and I work in this field, so it's really easy for us to catch on to these cues physiologically that cause us to shift gears and go back into a pattern that will help us feel rooted again. But for so many other people, they live with the suffering. Right. They call it life. This is every day. This is what. This is what it is. And they accept that. Meanwhile, that's what's causing them to live in a contracted state. And in my work, this is when I see most people get sick. Right. So I love that you brought up the word vibration, because I think when I think of the word vibration, I think of you. Thank you. And thinking of your new book, that's coming out called Good Energy. I couldn't think of a better time for this book to come out. And there's a couple reasons behind it. One, it's your practical approach behind it. Two, it's led by your heart. Three, I think that we're long overdue for more women in this space talking about practical tools based on what you've lived through, from being a doctor in surgery to kind of working with data, that's help you see, like, the level of suffering that's happening in the world. So, you know, asking questions based on that level of, like, knowingness. So tell us a little bit just about the journey from surgical room to where you are now.

Yeah, so I trained in the conventional western medical system. I was an ear, nose and throat surgeon, had a neck surgeon. And I. I think that throughout that journey, there was always something in me that didn't totally feel aligned like I've always been. This is just one basic example. But, like, I've always been fascinated by nutrition and just been in awe of the power of food to change our lives. And that started at an early age. I was very overweight growing up, and When I was 14, I went to the library, checked out a bunch of books about food, and then in the course of about six months, lost all like, this extra £50 I'd been carrying my childhood. And so I was like, oh, wow, food. If I learn about it and understand it, like, I can change my life. And, you know, so really understood the power of whole real unprocessed foods at an early age. Then in college, studied nutrigenomics, started to understand how food chemicals literally change our gene expression. This whole idea of high school biology of your genes are your destiny was totally sort of shifted. And I was like, wow. No, actually the, the way we interact with food molecules changes things and, you know, profoundly. And that's a choice we get to make every single day. And then I go to the medical world, Stanford Medical School, surgical residency, and all of a sudden, like, none of that conversation of, like, the power of food is a part of the conversation. And then I sort of more broadly realized there's a lot of hypocrisy, I think, in healthcare, because a lot of the ways that doctors are living and medical students are living is so deeply unhealthy and like, actually antith to what we know promotes health. So you've got all these people, unfortunately brilliant minds, brought into a system where they're unhealthy and they're not really learning as much about, you know, continuing education. On healthy behaviors and lifestyles. So there was always this friction of like, okay, I think I believe in what I'm doing. You know, I feel great being a doctor, but there's just something missing. So flash forward, I get to the point five years into my surgical training as a head and neck surgeon where I'm about to go off and be an independent, you know, faculty member and you know, finally unleashed into the world to be a profit making surgeon. And that was a moment that really I had to say like I had to really like reckon with myself and say, you know, there's such, such a huge friction in me, like am I really ready to like sign this contract and like start doing this? And, and, and really I wanted to.

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What actually was the wake up call for me was on my I was on a sinus surgery rotation so it's like five sinus surgeries a day. And there was this patient, and she was having her third revision sinus surgery. She'd been in three times. She'd been on every medication under the sun, dozens of rounds of nasal rinses, steroids, antibiotics, the whole works. Her third surgery, and I looked down at her, I'm like, are we kidding ourselves that we think that, like, this surgery is the thing that's going to make her healthy? Like, is this woman on this table unconscious, naked on the gurney that I'm about to literally drill into her skull, like, to drain pus out? Is this really the thing that's going to turn things around and have her have the most thriving, incredible life possible? And it's like, it just hit me so obviously, like, no, no, it's not. Like, that is going to be a whole different journey for her to truly be well. And it's a journey that I actually have no idea about. I have no idea how to truly make people well. I have no idea how to truly make people thrive. I have no idea from the textbooks inside of me somewhere, I absolutely did know. And the last six years has been a journey of, like, unraveling that and really kind of like going down all those paths of, you know, what does it really mean to be thriving? And, you know, I got into. I got into medicine to help people reach their highest purpose in this life by facilitating a healthy body. And unfortunately, what I realized is that not really what I was doing in the surgical world. So I left completely and I devoted my life to really figuring out what's the root cause of why people are sick. How are, you know, how can we, through the way we live our lives every day as individuals, cultivate limitless health? And that's ultimately what has guided every decision I've made since then. And what is in this book that.

Must have been so scary, just making the actual decision after years of going through academia that way. And here's the thing. Today, like, I think we're going through or we're approaching a paradigm shift. Doctors are catching on that people are getting sicker. Right. The data is there. Everyone wants data. Obesity is still today, despite living in this era of hyper wellness, obesity is on the rise. Diabetes is on the rise. Alzheimer's is on the rise amongst adults and children when it comes to diabetes and obesity. Right? Yeah. So in this paradigm shift and asking more questions, I think that we really have to go back to our doctors and demand that they become our partner in healing again. Right. So, you know, did you go through any nutrition training, we're going to head into a series on, like, debunking some myths. And everyone says, you know, we're catching on. Do doctors really have no training in nutrition?

Yeah, doctors have, like, absolutely no formal curriculum in nutrition, by and large. There's different stats that you'll hear, but some estimates say that doctors get an average of less than two hours of nutrition training in all of medical school. This is obviously, you know, absolutely absurd because almost every leading cause of premature death in the Western world is directly related to diet. And so it is just. It's just astounding that, you know, we look at these numbers, $4 trillion on healthcare costs, and every single year, every single year in America, we're getting sicker, we're getting heavier, we're getting more depressed, and we're becoming more infertile. And so you look at those trends, the rates of these diseases are actually skyrocketing. At the same time, we're spending more money to treat them. Similarly, we have more gym memberships in the United States than any country in the world. And obesity has actually increased almost linearly with the amount of gym memberships and gyms we have in the United States. So there's these trends that are definitionally, like, unsustainable. More money, worse outcomes, more gym memberships, more obesity. And so what we have to do is, like, really wake up and look at those trends and realize that the reason for this may be because we're actually putting our resources towards the wrong problems. We have a humongous arrow, this gigantic arrow of essentially American taxpayer dollars being pointed at the wrong problem. It's being pointed towards. It's being pointed towards individual biomarkers that we can, you know, maybe turn the knobs on and bring them down a little bit. It's being pointed on symptom management. It's being pointed on, I would say, even, like the. The conversation around we just need more access to health care. Yeah, all of that is missing the point, which is that we have bodies that are in a completely toxic environment. That environment's been created only recently, over the past 100, 200 years. Our cells are completely confused. They have no idea what's going on. We are living in a technological world that we don't know how to cope with, and we're disembodied, and we are not approaching essentially any of the root causes of why we're sick. And if we can turn that arrow, we can actually solve these monumental problems in a very, very short amount of time. But we kind of all have to get on that. American Heart association, the American Diabetes association, the American Academia, the nih. Everyone needs to be on that train of pointing the arrow. And we could make rapid progress very quickly.

There's no integration, right? So now patients and a lot of the clients that I see, they're aware of all this data, right? They're aware that there's other things that they can approach. They'll get a biomarker test, but there's no one integrating all of the answers. And what's so wild about this? And even going back to the nutrition piece, it's like if this is something fundamentally that's been studied by Eastern medicine for thousands of years, right? If food is information, this is something that we have known, right? And yet it's still, till this day, not being taken seriously. Right. We're still not looking at the source of our food as even being an option for healing. Doctors are not even discussing it in the waiting room, right? Or in the appointment room. Doctors are not even discussing it in the appointment room. Okay, let's get into this. We're going to dive into the deeper stuff. My blood just gets boiling talking to you, thinking about all the things and how overwhelming this can be. So let's break this down. Okay? So I know that you're an expert in this field, but let's start with metabolism. Okay? So so many women out there are convinced that they have a slow metabolism. They accept it. They think that it's the way that they are. Help us debunk this. Is it true or false?

I really don't fundamentally believe that there is such thing as just an inherently slow metabolism. Like you're born with a slow metabolism or a fast metabolism. And in the way that I see the body and what I understand about our cellular health, we actually can cultivate a fast metabolism through our daily choices over time. And you can cultivate a fast metabolism essentially by doing things that support three things related to our mitochondria. You want to make more mitochondria, you want to make the mitochondria you have more efficient, and you want the mitochondria, you have to be working through more energy substrates, essentially. So you want to focus. If you're working towards a fast metabolism, you really want to focus on behaviors that stimulate the mitochondria to do its best work. Essentially, a fast metabolism is cells filled with mitochondria that are working great. And those are. I think there's a couple examples that I can share that can help sort of illustrate how that happens. So the mitochondria, which is, you know, you probably remember from high school biology, for people listening, it's the powerhouse, the cell, it's, it's the organelle of metabolism and it's what converts our food energy into our cellular energy. And so we often associate slow metabolism with maybe not being able to lose weight, gaining weight and low energy. And a lot of this has to do with the process of whether we're effectively taking the food that's coming to our body and then using it, converting it to cellular energy to power our lives. And if our, if that process of metabolism through the mitochondria is going well, generally our health is much better on every level. Our energy, our sleep, our weight is just sort of effortlessly in a healthy range. And we of course avoid several symptoms and chronic diseases related to slow metabolism, poor mitochondrial health, poor metabolic health. And so we just have to really start zooming in and everyone needs to, I think, start building more literacy around like basically what does the mitochondria need to be happy? And so one of the things that a mitochondria requires to transform food energy to cellular energy is micronutrients. The, the, the enzymes, little protein machines inside the mitochondria that literally do those final conversion processes of metabolism to make cellular energy require several B vitamins, they require vitamin C, they require manganese, they require zinc. And these are micronutrients that literally bind inside the mitochondria and allow it to do its job. It's almost like if you had a machine in a factory that was making some type of product. These are like the screws in the machine that allow it to work. Well, unfortunately, right now almost 70% of the calories that we're eating are ultra processed foods devoid of micronutrients. Couple that with the fact that the soil we're growing our food in is super depleted. It's dead, it's lifeless because of industrial agriculture, which means less nutrients in the food to begin with. So you have less nutrient dense food food than being ultra processed. So there's fewer micronutrients. And on top of that, we're taking a lot of medications that prevent us from absorbing nutrients. So we are these body cells, mitochondria that are trying to do their best work, but we're literally not giving them things. The lock and key co factors of micronutrients to make them do their best work. Now imagine you take that person and all of a sudden they're eating a regenerative diet grown in great soil that's unprocessed. They're cooking their meals at home. They're off the antacids and proton pump at himbers and constant antibiotics that are killing our ability to absorb nutrients. That's a totally different situation for that mitochondria. So that little slow metabolism, mitochondria that's been sputtering along to do its work, is all of a sudden, like, revitalized, and it's able to process more energy substrates. So that's just one example of basically taking mitochondria that you have and making them work better. But there's also several other ways to actually build more mitochondria. For instance, like cold exposure. We talk about we gotta get in the cold plunge. We gotta do our three minutes every day. But it's like, what's really happening there? Cold is an energetic signal to our cells. It's a way of communicating. It's a language to our cells, saying, hey, cell, I'm cold. I'd like to have more heat. And one of the ways that we make more heat in the body is our mitochondria. They'll replicate to make more of them because they're little furnaces. They'll work harder, they'll churn through more glucose. So we get mitochondrial biogenesis. We get the development of brown fat, which is literally fat filled with mitochondria. So all of this is to say, I think there's a really helpful reframe when we're thinking about all these different wellness protocols we've been asked to do. Like, got to check this off. Got to check this off. And I think for many of us, we don't really understand, like, where is that arrow pointing? And I think it's actually really helpful to, like, think of your mitochondria. Think of them. They're just sitting there waiting to help us have our most energetic, happy life. And really what we need to do is almost be like the mothers to those mitochondria and be like, what do you need? You need? You need. Oh, you need. We can talk with a little bit of cold signal to make you, like, feel a little more motivated. I can give you some nutrients to help you work better and every day kind of things, point that arrow towards how do I support my mitochondria so that they can be happy and produce energy so that we feel incredible in this lifetime. So that is how you really cultivate a fast metabolism, is by supporting mitochondrial health. And there are many vectors to that, ranging from food, temperature exposure, sleep, stress management, microbiome support. Light exposure, which we can go into all of, but fast metabolism versus slow metabolism, kind of a myth. We cultivate it every day with our choices and how those choices love on our mitochondria.

I think that's the most, like, refreshing take on everything. Because what I'm hearing you say is ultimately like, learn to nourish every single cell in your body. That's it. Our body is sending us symptoms every single day, day in and day out. But maybe we've become masters at ignoring those symptoms. Yeah, right. And I think that people are just completely disconnected from the actual fact that they. The food that we eat, the water that we drink, the air that we breathe, the environment that we live in is all designed to either help us thrive or not. And if we're not thriving, go through each and every one of those categories systematically until you notice what makes you feel better. Right, exactly, exactly.

It's like, yeah, there's a couple different frameworks that I think about the body mostly in now. And like, one is this idea that, like, health is fundamentally like a matching problem. Like you have these cells, you have trillions of them, maybe 40 plus trillion cells. And they're. Each one is a little city that has a bunch of different, you know, requirements for that city to function properly. The roads need to be maintained, the boundaries of the city need to be maintained. Like, we need to bring goods in and bring goods out. And like, so all of our choices need to just basically be about, like, like we, we know a lot about that city. We know a lot about cell biology. So how do we match our choices with the needs of these cells and so that they can optimize their function? And we're also remembering, like you said, like, our symptoms are always talking to us. There are no symptoms that can arise out of thin air. Symptoms are necessarily a result of cellular dysfunction. And I think that's just a really important concept for people to grasp. Like, these don't arise out of the ether. They are 100% a result of cellular dysfunction. So then you just have to ask yourself, how do I ameliorate that cellular dysfunction? And there's only a handful of things that we can really do to nudge ourselves. And it's exactly what we just talked about. It's these nurturing activities. It's what are we eating? Are we sleeping? How's our stress management? How's our microbiome? Like, how are we interacting with light? What energetic and biochemical signals are we choosing to basically expose our cells to? And if those energetic. So, like, Light and temperature and biochemical, food, hormonal, et cetera. If those inputs that we choose match the needs of the cell, we will have health. So that's just sort of one framework that I think a lot about. If I have a symptom, tiredness, moodiness, constipation, my knee hurts, like, what needs are not being met? Just like you would approach, I think a baby who can't really speak for itself. What needs are not being met? And then what can I do to meet them? And spoiler alert, the symptom usually goes away when I go through the checklist of what could my body, what could my cells be needing?

Can I just say too fundamentally. Didn't you just describe Eastern medicine meeting Western medicine?

In many ways, yes. Yeah.

Like really, you know, we're looking at the body and getting to the root cause of imbalances. Right. This is essentially what it is. We're not just stopping at the source of the symptom. Right. So, okay, keeping on with the rapid fire. You know, a lot of people that I'm seeing these days are coming to me and they're getting a score of a pre diabetic score. Right. So a lot of women will often say, you know, my metabolism is broken. As they get older, their metabol, as they get older, they feel like their metabolism just stops, it's not functioning anymore. So I know you talked about this a little bit, but what does it actually mean when somebody says their metabolism is broken? And how do you see this relating to their metabolic score? Through biomarkers.

Yeah. So again, I think it's really helpful to think of it through a framework of the mitochondria, because fundamentally what you're talking about, you've got women who might be gaining weight and their blood sugar is going up, and both of those represent essentially the same thing, which is that inside the cell, the ability of the body to just effectively churn through food substrates like sugar and fat and turn them into energy we can use to have thriving, powerful health is not working properly. So we need to do things to unleash the potential of that machine to basically churn through fat. So that leads to, you know, the weight loss and the healthy weight and churn through glucose, which brings down the blood sugar. So an important thing to realize of, like, well, why, why is the mitochondria not doing that properly? So fundamentally we want to be engaging in really any and all to essentially to. If we feel like our metabolism is broken, the way that we can fix that is by doing, is by pointing that arrow of our wellness behaviors towards things that are going to stimulate that mitochondria's health. And so, you know, I think about, um, it actually makes me think a lot about my mom because, you know, as, you know, she, she died prematurely of a disease that's closely related to metabolic dysfunction. She had pancreatic cancer. But leading up to, you know, it's so interesting because like the, the doctors, she would have been someone who absolutely said, my metabolism's broken. She had started gaining weight after she couldn't lose the baby weight. After she had me and my brother, she was putting on belly fat. You know, next thing you know, her doctor says your cholesterol is a little high. Next thing you know, the doctor says your, your blood sugar's a little high. Next thing you know she's got high blood pressure, she's being put on all these different medications. And the next thing she know, she gets cancer and she dies. And everyone says the cancer's unlucky. But when you look at it through this lens of like, okay, there were signs all along that there was something going on. And the, the issue though, and, and why she inspires me so much in this journey is that she tried kind of like everything. She tried all these crash diets and she tried, you know, all sorts of different, you know, gym memberships and this and that. She was working hard, but did not have this framework for really understanding, like, how do I truly unleash the power of my mitochondria and my metabolic health. And so I think that, you know, one of the things that can be helpful for people who might feel overwhelmed by all the different sort of like, wellness choices that they have is to really stick to a few behaviors and lifestyles that we know are going to support mitochondrial health that they enjoy doing and really commit to those. And so one thing, you know, like, tried and true that we know is really great for mitochondrial health is making sure that we prioritize quality, quantity and consistency of sleep. Easier said than done, but that's like a really key one for mitochondrial health. A second thing is like really getting rid of the refined grains and sugars in the diet and making sure we're eating the micronutrient rich foods that we know are mitochondrial fat co that are mitochondrial co factors, the refined grains and sugars. The reason those hurt the mitochondria is because there's this huge influx of essentially substrates that these mitochondria have to process. So if you think about that concept of nurturing the mitochondria, the Reason we don't want to eat the refined grains and sugars in excess is because it's literally giving more work for these mitochondria to do. It overwhelms them. They create damaging BRY products because they're overwhelmed. And then they convert the stuff they can't convert to energy into fat. So we get, you know, essentially a, just this like, bombardment that they can't process. We talked about cold exposure. That's another way. Then we think about exercise like there's several different types of exercise that can actually support our mitochondrial health. And so it's really like understanding the different ways that different types of exercise affect our mitochondria and knowing that when you're doing those activities, you're really helping support bringing that mitochondria back to life. So if it's resistance training, we're building muscle hypertrophy, we're literally printing new mitochondria to churn through those, you know, that, that glucose and fat. If we're doing high intensity interval training, we are supporting mitophagy, the recycling of old mitochondria and the rebirthing of new ones. And if we're walking after meals, we're actually just stimulating the mitochondria to work through the glucose that we just ate in the meal. So all that is to say, I really want people to understand that there, I don't believe there's really any such thing as a broken metabolism. It's. We have an overwhelmed, stressed out set of mitochondria and we need to just kind of understand how to support them and commit to that in our wellness behaviors and not get distracted by all the noise in the health care industry. And, and I think the second piece is like really understanding your biomarkers, which can be so, so empowering. There's several biomarkers that can tell us a lot about what's going on with our metabolism that we can track and see change over time. And if you're committing to a series of wellness behaviors that you know that, that you, that you're really, you know, motivated to do, check your bio, do it for a few months, check your biomarkers again and see if it's working and if the biomarkers aren't changing, it's a signal to you that maybe it's time to like, try some different ones. But I think it's the confusion about is this working? Is it not, Is it worth it to invest in this behavior that can be so frustrating to us as women? We already have so many other things to Do. So really understanding a few of the key biomarkers and tracking them over time can be a great way to, like, have confidence that what you're doing is like making a difference.

Yeah, there's so many good points in there. One of them that you called on was just this idea of enjoyment. So I think that a lot of us, especially for women, are called upon this blueprint for how to get healthy, how to lose weight, how to show up better in this world. And one of them is work harder, do exercises that I don't enjoy, eat foods that I don't love, or eat less to lose weight. Talk to us about that concept and how eating less is no longer the solution. It's not calories in and calories out anymore. Let's debunk that. Oh my gosh, please.

This needs such a debunking. Oh, my gosh.

We'll probably do a whole episode on this.

Yeah, there, there is. Well, I think it's important to remember that there's. There's literally like no animal in the wild that counts calories, and yet there's actually like no obese animals in the wild.

And our ancestors were never obese.

They didn't even know the term. There was obesity 100 years ago was less than 1% of the population, and now it's 40% of the population. And people weren't talking about calories then.

Yeah.

So you, you really need to like scratch your head and say, like, okay, maybe, maybe this is not what I need because it's such a stressor. The thing that I always come back to is that the body is so incredibly wise and the body is constantly telling us what it needs. And this is the main reason why I do not focus on calories. And I literally never think about calories and don't recommend talking about calories to anyone. I haven't thought about a calorie in years, to be honest. And the reason is because I trust in the knowing of the body and I trust in the power of real food. And when the body is primarily eating real, unprocessed foods, the satiety mechanisms of the body, the body's feedback to that food is exquisite. It knows how much it needs and it will self regulate. And so I really do think that if we commit to eating more real, unprocessed foods, what we do is we tap into the ancient mechanisms of the body that know exactly how much we need to eat. It's when we start eating more processed, ultra processed foods that actually are designed to hijack our satiety mechanisms and kind of create static in that, in that just deep knowing of the body is when I think we can get into trouble. Because if you think about like an example like high fructose corn syrup, an ultra processed liquid form of fructose, this actually creates what's called oxidative stress in our cells in our brain and drives us to be insatiable and hungry. So it's literally a chemical that's put into food to dampen our natural, exquisite satiety mechanisms and make us hungrier. So I think for a lot of people, my hope is that that's a motivating message. That if we can actually, if you can commit to really trying to focus on whole foods, like doing a whole 30 for a month or something like that, what ends up being unlocked is an effortlessness with hunger and cravings that makes life a lot easier. It was really interesting. There was a study at the NIH with Kevin hall was the PI the principal investigator on this study. And they basically took people, put them in the NIH in a for a month, they couldn't leave. And they tracked every single thing they ate. And on the first two weeks they gave them mostly an ultra processed food diet. But interestingly, if you looked at this diet, it actually just looks like what most Americans are eating every day. And it didn't, it didn't even, it wasn't even egregious. It was like a sandwich with deli meat turkey on it and maybe a tomato and lettuce on some white bread or some, you know, we. And then it was like a yoplait yogurt and it was like a glass of orange juice juice and maybe a couple like Snackwell's cookies. So, so you look at it and you're like, oh, it doesn't look like that bad. But it was fundamentally an ultra processed diet. Then the second two weeks of the study, they put them on a totally whole foods diet with some similar looking things. Like instead of the yoplait yogurt, it would be like Greek yogurt with blueberries. Instead of the, you know, deli meat turkey on white bread, it would be like maybe a stone ground, you know, wheat type of bread, whole, whole grain bread with freshly cooked turkey breast, things like that. And then more water and iced tea and things like, you know, no sugar added. Well, the people naturally, they measured every bite of foot they food they took and they could eat anything they wanted. And on the first two weeks, they ate 500 calories more every single day than in the unprocessed diet. And Overall that was 7,000 additional calories during the processed food diet. And they had an increase in weight gain during that time of 2.6 pounds in two weeks. And then it came off during the crossover. So really what that says, I think, is that if we can commit to some of those unprocessed foods, we don't really need to think about calories as much because we're tapping into our natural satiety cues. And then one other just brief thing I'd mentioned about cravings and being driven to eat more food is that we know that blood sugar spikes. So when our blood sugar goes up and crashes. This is fascinating, but there was a paper in Nature, one of the premier medical journals just from the past couple years, that showed that when your blood sugar spikes and then you have a crash after that blood sugar spike, the crash period, which is called reactive hypoglycemia, the extent of that crash determines how much people will crave food in the 24 hour period after that. So how much they will want food, how much calories they will intake, and how much they're going to want carbohydrates. So it's really, if we can balance out the huge spikes and crashes in our blood sugar and keep them more stable, we're also just immediately tapping into more satiety and less cravings. And, and another reason why we don't have to focus so much on calories, we really just can focus on the sourcing of the food, eating high quality unprocessed food and trying to balance our blood sugar. And what happens then is that the need to focus on calories just kind of melts away.

Absolutely.

And our body's kind of getting what it needs. And in reducing cravings, if you think about on a more spiritual level, like attachment in many spiritual traditions is thought to be like a root of suffering. And cravings are ultimately a form of attachment. And so, so aside from just like being able to kind of get rid of some of the calorie conversation, when we focus on these core principles, I think we also liberate ourselves to just like dimming the food noise, the cravings, whatever you want to call it.

Okay. No counting calories.

Yeah. I really just don't think it's necessary.

It's not necessary. And what's so funny, as you're speaking, I'm thinking back to my corporate days, and this is at a time my health was at its worst. I was on the Atkins diet. I was on beta blockers for my tachycardia that I had for my heart. And I remember it was like clockwork. Every three hours we would go for coffee, go for the donut run or the muffin run or whatever it was. And it was just like constant craving, that upsurge of energy to just survive and make it through the day. Right. And then flash forward, when I went through my greatest healing period, I went back to the ashram where I grew up at, and I ate more carbs than I'd ever eaten in my life. However, all of those carbs came from the earth. I was probably eating like 40 or 50 grams of fiber a day. The weight came off, my body went back into balance. I did not get my palpitations anymore. I wasn't bloated the way that I used to be. My brain fog settled, my skin cleared up. I regulated my cycle again. So, yeah, there's just. There's so much truth. Truth to this. But I also feel like I need to say to the people who are going to listen to this, because I work with so many people who come to me and they want me to make their macros for them. Right. It's almost like this disordered way of eating that they've been brought up with in order to feel healthy. And if they let it go, they feel like they lose a sense of control again. So it's ultimately like this massive reframe that has to happen. And pointing out those studies is brilliant. I want to make sure that we put those in the notes so that people can reference them. And just the more that we can fuel our belief system that that's no longer the way, the more we're going to be able to make these changes. And, of course, keeping it part of our conversation. And then the flip side to that, too, is this idea of eating smaller meals throughout the day. Right. A lot of people love grazing. Sometimes it does feel really good to graze. But tell us about, metabolically, what is this doing to us?

Yeah, we. We probably do not want to be eating six smalls a day, small meals a day, for optimal health. And I think, again, it's like so much of my framework of health has come back to the same concept of thinking about ourselves and our body as these children we need to take care of. And it's like every time we eat, we're asking our body to do so much work. And the average American is now eating 15 times per day. 15 eating events per day. So that's like 15 times.

And this isn't real food either. No, no, no.

Because I don't think we'd be eating real food. I don't think we'd be eating 15 times per day if we were eating real food. Because if we were eating real food, our satiety mechanisms would be super clued in and we wouldn't want to. And so average American has 15 eating events per day over the course of 13 to 15 hours. Oh my God. And so if you think about like compassion for the body, like, that is so much work asking your body to do. The body needs rest, the body needs the Yang periods. And the Yang periods. And right now with our eating culture, it's all Yang for the body. Yes. Maybe we are sleeping for a few hours, you know, six. We're also sleeping much less than we should be. And we have historically. So even the time that we're sleeping and not eating has become so compressed and a lot of people are eating a snack before they go to bed and then getting something the second they wake up.

Yeah.

So all of this is very hard on our bodies. It's overwhelming our mitochondria. And so that's just one way of thinking of it. Like, how can you give your body a little break so that it can churn through what it already has so that it can actually clean up waste products? Because if you're constantly putting new stuff in, there's no time for the body to actually clean up the mess and the waste. And so if we actually get down to the data, though, the science is very clear that the more we actually can compress our eating window, window into a fairly reasonable amount of time, it's actually better for our metabolic parameters. So there was one really interesting study where they had people eat the exact same amount of calories, either over a six hour eating window or a 12 hour eating window, but it was the same amount of calories. So no restriction. That's a key thing here. It wasn't a caloric restriction. The people who ate in a more compressed window, same amount of calories had ultimately, over the course of the study, better fasting glucose levels, better fasting insulin levels. They lost weight. And the reason for this is because every time we eat, we are going to be spiking our insulin levels, the hormone that helps us take the glucose and the blood sugar out of the blood into the cells. And if there are carbohydrates in the meals we're eating, we're going to have some type of insulin release. That insulin is a signal to the body to store fat. It's an anabolic hormone. It's telling you to build. It's, it's queuing up all sorts of different genetic pathways and changing our signaling inside our cells. So if you think about that, you could be doing that with, let's say you had 2,000 calories and you're eating them in six hours. Well, yeah, you're going to have those insulin spikes, but it's all going to be in a finite window. And that's that window where your body is basically, basically saying, build, absorb glucose, maybe print some fat. If there's some extra glucose around, boom, you're done with that. And then the rest of the day you're using those substrates. You are. If you churn through most of, you know, your easily accessible glucose, your body will tap into fat storage.

Absolutely.

If you're spreading it out over 12 hours, that's a lot more insulin in your body over a course of more time, which changes the biochemistry of your body, it changes your cellular activity. So, so we do want to tighten up. So what I think is probably a good strategy for most people is to really take stock of what your eating patterns are in an honest way, first of all. And for me, I had a big wake up call. I have a coach that I work with and one of the things she did is we actually did this for me a couple years ago. We mapped out when am I really eating? Because if you asked me, I'd be like, oh, I eat dinner around seven and then I'm pretty much done. The reality was actually when we kept a food log, I was eating a little snack like every night at 10pm and like that. So it, it's, so we got honest about it, we looked at it. How many eating events do you have per day? How, how many hours per day are you eating? And then see if you can just slowly constrict that a little bit. So if you're eating a snack every night at 10pm Maybe you decide that 9pm is your last call cutoff. And one interesting strategy that really helped me as I tightened up my eating window with my coach was that if I know for a fact that prior to this I was eating something every night at 10pm and my, and I'm going to make my eating cut off 8:30pm to start. Maybe what I do is I actually eat a snack at 8:25 every night to kind of top myself up, knowing what my normal habit is to make that easier for me. And I did that and that made me be able to consistently achieve 8:30. And then I moved it up and then, and so now, you know, I eat, it's a couple years later and I would say I eat more consistently. Dinner around 6:30 and I make sure I like eat enough to be full for the rest of the night. And then, you know, and the same thing in the morning if we, if they're, if you're able to space your breakfast back a little bit. And I think shooting for, you know, that 10 hour eating window, 14 hours of not eating is a very like healthy and safe and reasonable place to get even if it's 12 and 12, that's better than the average American. But kind of bringing it down to a tighter window is definitely good for our metabolic health.

This ties me into the next question. And yeah, let's affirm, like tracking your food for three days. I get all of my clients to do this is such a powerful exercise. So you can see if you're eating mindlessly or not and the quality of the foods that you're eating. Last year I got a call to be on the Today show and the segment that they wanted me to cover was late night snacking. So instantly my hands are like, ah, can we do something else? Like, it's just. I knew it's not something that I advocate for any of my clients for health. However, in researching. Most Americans are addicted to late night snacking. Partially habitual. And then in dialogue with some people, they've actually flipped it in their brain to understand that, no, if I keep eating or snacking this way, that I will keep my metabolism going. Or if I, if I don't eat breakfast in the morning, my metabolism is going to slow down. Right. Which is a complete myth.

Yeah.

Thank you.

Yeah. In fact, it's overwhelming everything. It is, it's not keeping them going, it's keeping them beleaguered.

Totally. And, and in an ayurvedic standpoint, the way that I talk about this with my clients is digestion takes up a tremendous amount of energy from your body. If you are constantly eating, your body is constantly working, and you'll constantly be wanting to reach for the coffee and the sugar. Right. When we take these, these breaks for fasting, you're actually turning on your body's ability to heal itself. Right. And it's funny too, at the astronaut, I keep going back to this. Cause I'm just having all these flashbacks to my healing journey. We naturally fast for 14 to 16 hours every single night between those, those meals. And we recognize that as an opportunity for our body, our acne, our digestive fire to really replenish. So that when we eat those foods they feel so much more nourishing, but we can also digest them well. Right.

It's so important. And I think it's like, I think we have to think of the body like has, the body's amazing because it has so many things it can do. It has a million things it can do. We have trillions of chemical reactions every second in our body. It's so cool. But again it's like, what are you going to focus the attention of the body on? And we, you know, you think about the fact that most of the diseases we're facing in the United States are fundamentally rooted in chronic inflammation. We know that chronic inflammation is related to dementia, heart disease, obesity, depression, anxiety, obviously arthritis, cancer, all these different things. And inflammation is fundamentally like the body responding to a threat. And it's inflammation is the cells of the body responding to a perceived threat and revving up to fight this battle and that just like never stopping. So you can really push your body's energy towards fighting a war or helping with your maximal thriving and energy production.

That's a brilliant analogy.

Yeah. Like, it's like, do we either, do we either want to shift our body, like tell our body through our choices, I need you to fight a war or I'd love you to clean up all the waste products in my body and work towards healing and repair of things that are broken.

Make the hormones that you need to.

Make the hormones that you need and produce as much ATP cellular energy as humanly possible. So I can feel absolutely incredible and limitless. It's like that's a choice we make every day. And so every time we allow ourselves to have that negative self limiting belief that's ultimately like a fear signal in the body because our cells can hear all our thoughts, that's essentially telling your body, I'd like you to fight the war today. Every time we're eating that ultra processed food with artificial colorings and artificial chemicals and preservatives and ingredients we can't pronounce that our body has no clue what to do with, that's a signal to our body saying, hey, I'd like you to fight the war today instead of, of putting your energy towards my thriving. Every time we don't get sleep, that's like a signal to the body of like, something's wrong, we gotta fight. So it's like, how can we basically use our choices, use this free will that we have been given for some reason this life to basically make choices that say, you know, we don't actually need to fight, like, reduce the threat signals. Because what will happen is that when you. When the cells are like, okay, cool, I guess there's not a threat, they will literally just do work to repair and help you be as happy as possible and make as much, you know, cellular energy as possible. So we don't want to distract the body. And I think that really motivates me when I'm making choices is like, how do we, like, like, let the body just be able to feel like, okay, things are safe. And the number one we do, we do that is with our thoughts. I think food is a big. A big one as well. But so many of our other choices. And so. But it's similar to digestion. It's like we either can tell the body, okay, focus all your energy on digestion 15 hours a day, or let's focus on cleanup, let's focus on rest, let's focus on building our resilience. And it's kind of those two different pathways.

So that is so beautiful in its simplicity. It all comes down to our choices. One of the reframes to kind of take the intensity out of the situation that I give to my clients is saying, with every choice that you make around the foods that you eat, the information that you're choosing is either going to lead you to the version of yourself that you want to feel and become, or take you away or keep you anchored in the version of yourself that might not be feeling your best. So who are you choosing? Right. It can really be that simple. But you have to keep that as this kind of anchoring thought whenever you make those. Those choices. Because it's. It's you, it's your health. You're in control.

Totally. Totally. And like we are fundamentally, when we're eating, we are giving our body the ink to do the 3D printing of the next version of ourself on like an atomic and molecular level. Like every day, we are reprinting our body of the next second minute, hour, day, year. Because, you know, and you know, it's like the way this is written in textbooks is like our GI lining turns over completely every six weeks. It's very sterile. You know, it's like, yes, we know that our skin cells turn over. We know that our gut cells turn over. We know on some level that the molecular body we are today is completely different atomically, molecularly, in the body we were a year ago. But I just love that idea that, like, the ink for that next version of our body in the 3D printer is the food we're putting into our body. And so like, what do you want to print? You know, do you want to print like a processed, nutrient devoid, you know, like lifeless body, which is like, what will happen if this, the printer ink you're putting in is ultra processed food versus, you know, you look at like the food you bring home from the farmer's market that's on your counter and it's like, it's shiny, it's colorful, it brings you joy, it's plump, it's, it's firm, it's like all these things and it's like, I want to be that, you know, like that beautiful. This maybe the scales of a beautiful, like wild caught fish that you bring home from, you know, the grocery store versus like, you know, a chopped up piece of like, you know, sort of farmed fish that kind of looks like gray pink and you're just like, this does not look good. Like it's, you know, and I think, I think kind of getting that level of like trying to really spiritually connect with the essence of your food and like, think about, like, who do I want to be? Like, do I want to be an animal that was in a cage its entire life, fearful, not around its babies and you know, covered in shit, literally like so many of our factory farmed animals? Or do I want to be like, you know, a cow that was like grazing on dozens of acres of beautiful pasture, eating gorgeous grass that, you know, doesn't have pesticides sprayed on and it's like, you know, which one you want.

To be that was the most beautiful reframe. You essentially said, put your spiritual self in the driver's seat when you're making your food choices.

Yes, 100%. I think that's one of the easiest ways to be consistently healthy is just like, you're ultimately like going to take on the identity in some way of what you're eating. And that's not even like, woo, woo. It's like you're literally the thing and every hormone it had in its body or every chemical that was sprayed on it or whatever, like, is going to become you. That is next week's version of you. So like, who do you want to be? Yeah. And like, yeah, can I just say.

Too, isn't it insane that this is a process that stops? Like as a mom, you read every single ingredient on every product before it will go into your baby's mouth right when they're a year old, two years old, and then something happens. They go to school, all of a sudden the processed food lingers in and then it becomes unimportant. We just let it go. Like it just stopped mattering. When like these kids are still growing as adults, we're still growing, right? We're still evolving, but we somehow just stop caring. So all of this really is leading to a concept that I think that because of you and your voice out in the world, which is trending right now is metabolic flexibility. So this isn't something that is just trending. There is so much power in understanding this. So can you break down so people really understand what does it mean to be metabolically flexible?

Yeah, I mean it's really, it's so simple.

You.

We can either make cellular energy from fat or from sugar. And we want to essentially, ideally make it from both things. Convert fat to energy, convert sugar to energy. But in the average person who is metabolically inflexible, they're really only doing that with glucose. And the reason for that is because glucose is the preferred, easier source of substrate to basically convert to cellular energy. So we're going to grab that first if it's around. And in the American body, it's always around because we're eating 15 times per day and 70% of the foods on our shelves have refined grains or sugars which turn into glucose. So there's all this abundance of glucose around. So that's what we're using for energy. And because of that, our processing in the body that can convert fat to energy get rusty. We literally aren't using them. And that's metabolic inflammat flexibility. So by doing things like compressing our eating window so that we're only eating in that like, you know, six to ten hour window per day, that in doing that we're literally giving our body 14 or so hours where there's not this constant influx of glucose. And during that time the body will flip into burning fat. Cause that is, it's not the immediate thing it's going to grab for energy, but when the glucose starts to decline, it will grab it. So, so we want to give our body essentially opportunities to tap into fat, because that is metabolic flexibility and metabolic flexibility. Essentially the body using both fat and glucose for energy. We know that's a healthier state for our metabolism. It's better for our mitochondria. The byproducts of fat burning are healthful. Like when, when fat is broken down and makes byproducts like ketone bodies, that's good for our body. And so, so it's all about creating opportunities for our body to have that experience of fat. Burning and that can be through time restricted eating, which is just like, gosh, I don't like that term. It's like time restricted feeding. Sounds like dieting, trf. It's like fundamentally, it's not, we don't need to give it that like, harsh label. It's, it's giving our body time to rest. That's what TRF is.

It's like a flexible eating window. Yeah, right.

And it's, it's giving our body time to rest, giving our body to tap into something different, giving our body a new experience of fat burning. And then another way that can really help. That also comes back to the blood sugar spikes, because as we release insulin, that is going to be a signal for the body essentially to store fat, not burn fat. And we're going to have those bigger insulin spikes after a carb rich meal where we like really spike the glucose up and it crashes. That's going to be associated with a bigger insulin spike. And the more insulin floating around we have, the less we're going to be metabolically flexible, because it's literally a signal to not burn fat. So giving ourselves more time where we're not eating each day, giving ourselves fewer blood sugar spikes, and fundamentally moving our diet towards one that is eliminating refined carbohydrates and sugars are all strategies that we can do to give our body the opportunity to, to burn fat and become metabolically flexible.

These are amazing tips. You're making everything super tangible, which I love. Anybody can practice these. I think that there's also, you know, a lot of people now with wearables and stuff like that. A lot of clients who come to see me want to wear continuous glucose monitors and they're able to really track and make big, significant changes to their metabolic flexibility to the point where, you know, if it's impacting their hormones and their sleep, their acne, their level of focus and brain fog and stuff like that, which is super, super powerful. But it doesn't have to start there. Like you can really make these simple choices first. And I'm pointing that out because, you know, when I say, you know, get your blood labs done, check your biomarkers, maybe look into some wearables and stuff like that. The biggest, you know, question that comes up is why didn't our ancestors have to deal with any of this? Our ancestors, as you said, you know, weren't even tuned into the idea of a calorie, let alone metabolic flexibility. So why is this something that's so different in today's modern world?

It's I mean, I think the main reason it's something that we have to actually really be vigilant about is because again, 70% of the shelves are ultra processed foods. Like, and frankly, I would argue, as much as I love biomarkers and I love wearables and I love all the trackers and I've really devoted my life to, to getting these in the hands of more people because we're up against so much right now if we are making some of the basic choices around committing to a whole foods diet that comes from good soil, and I always mention the good soil because food from good soil has more nutrients in it that are ultimately going to make us feel more satiated and feel and match the needs of the food to the body because there's just more goodness in it. So if we are actually committing to eating real food grown in good soil and sleeping and avoiding artificial light at night and doing the things our ancestors did, then like, maybe we don't need the biomarkers and maybe we don't need the wearables, like they can be helpful. But I think by and large if people are living like our ancestors, we probably don't need the tools that we have now. I mean, so that, so that's. But I will say the cool thing about what we're, the world we're living in today is that I think one of the biggest unlocks might come from kind of living in some ways like our ancestors did, as you know, in the ways that we know are helpful for health, like eating real food and ideally not getting a ton of artificial light at night and like moving much more throughout the day as opposed to like in little one hour blocks. So some of that ancestral living, but then taking what we have from modernity to help us maybe unlock like that, that next level of health. So, and that's honestly how I live my life. I try and live in a very natural way that make you know, that we know is good for our cellular health, but then use things like continuous glucose monitors and direct to consumer biomarker testing to fine tune the things that hopefully make me feel like truly as bad as, as good as I possibly can. So we have this like pretty cool opportunity in our lives with both ancestral wisdom and tools to really like have kind of the best health ever.

Absolutely.

And that's pretty exciting. Like what we don't want obviously is for it to cause us like an immense amount of, you know, undue stress and whatnot. But if we, I think if we can position them in a different framework like, the way I look at a lot of these tools, like the lab markers and the biomarker and the, and the wearables, is like, with awe. Like, okay, I. In a way that people never before could in human history, I can both cultivate deep spiritual body awareness and deep, you know, embodiment. Like we did, like we, at the very beginning of this episode, we did some deep breaths and meditation and got in our body before we started. Like, I can do that. Which I think is probably what my ancestors did, you know, really were in touch with their bodies and their vibration. And I can see inside my body in a way that no one else has been able to do in human history. I can see my heart rate variability, I can see my sleep. So that's like awe inspiring. And with that, how can I basically, with curiosity, with awe, with fun and joy in all of it, basically use those two things together to cultivate my ability to like, essentially reach my highest purpose, Spread the most light as possible, and if it's ever not doing those things, then, like, I'll get rid of it. And we were just talking before, like, I haven't worn any wearables in months because, like, I just don't know if at this exact moment in my life they're helping me do those things. But if they are, like, that's, that's great.

Well, there, there is a tool, right? So usually I just typically put a lens of prevention over it, use these as, as tools and as data. Modern science and medicine is such a gift. Like, the things that are happening right now are incredible. However, if they cause you more stress and if it's really making more of like these ideas of control over your life, we're not meant to live that way at all. So it's really important to me that, like, the people who I work with who listen to this, taking ownership of becoming your own health expert and understanding what really works for you. Right? And I think that it's important that we. Let's just, just go there. Okay? So speaking to our ancestors, speaking to the access that they had to cleaner air, better soil, more nutrient dense soil that didn't have all the crap from pollution and pesticides and fertilizers that we do today, you know, where do you see the future of food going in terms of metabolic flexibility and how can we be proactive in this area? You and I have like, jammed out on regenerative soil and how passionate we are, because if we don't have great soil for our future, we do not have the food which is information to help our bodies thrive, period. Hard stop. Right?

That's right.

We have to start looking at those sources. But can you maybe paint a bigger picture on what it means for us to continue to fuel the choices that are causing our soil to deteriorate or not making food choices that are going to optimize or benefit our soil? What's the impact to our health?

Oh, my goodness. I mean, I think. Yeah. I mean, you and I have talked about this so much, this journey towards really understanding this relationship between the way our food is raised and how our food is, you know, nurtured and like, basically our health outcomes. It's so, so deeply connected. And that is, you know, I think that one of the things I think about, like, here's an example. So a lot of people when they're buying products right now, like, they. They feel like they're making a really good choice if they're buying, like, organic products. And they. In many ways, that's true. Organic products are not going to have toxic pesticides on them, which are. It's going to eliminate many of the synthetic toxic pesticides that we know can hurt our. Our body. But what's interesting is that if you're buying meat and you buy organic meat, unfortunately, it's still not good enough for optimal health. And the reason for that is because just because something is organic, that cow still very may well have been eating an exclusively corn and soy diet. And so it's still maybe in a feedlot and it's eating corn and soy. And if that corn and soy does not have synthetic pesticides on it and is organic, then that beef is considered organic. Now, let's take an animal that is raised in pasture on a regenerative farm, and it's grazing all the time, and it's eating grass pretty much exclusively. By definition, it's organic because it doesn't have the synthetic pesticides all over it. But those two cows, which ultimately will become you when you eat that burger, have a different molecular composition. The one that was eating the corn and soy molecularly is going to have printed many more omega 6 fats in its body. It's going to have more chronic inflammation in its body. It's going to have a different hormonal profile. It's probably going to be a metabolically dysfunctional cow. So it's going to have maybe more fat because the insulin levels were high in the cow. And that's all becoming you. The cow that was raised on the regenerative farm that was just eating grass. It's gonna have had a great microbiome because it was eating all this polyphenols from the grass. It's going to have been printing more omega 3 fats because of what it was eating. That cow is going to have been able to move. So it's going to be more, probably a more metabolically flexible cow. It's going to be a cow that had less cortisol, less insulin levels circulating through its body. All of that is going to become you. And so I think it's just really understanding that like there's no shortcuts here like you. And I mean it's, it comes down to as simple as like you, you, you are what you eat. And, and I think that we have to have like a real long term vision for this investment in high quality food. Because each bite of really high quality, well sourced food we're taking is an investment in our energy levels, our mental health, our ability to sleep well. And those things are ultimately going to feed into like for instance, how productive we can be in life and how creative we can be and all those things. So we have to think about, I think cost becomes a big issue here and something that people talk about a lot. But the reality is like we, we are going to pay somehow with our energy levels, with our future chronic disease and healthcare bills, or with the food we're buying. And I, I genuinely believe that the best, best investment we can make is to really understand that food is molecular information, understand that the molecular inflammation is going to become us, understand that what molecular information is in that food is determined on how it was raised, whether it was a plant or an animal. And realize that in the longer view of things, which is not a very American thing to do, we like to think in quarters rather than generations, like our ancestors, like our native ancestors, you know, like they were thinking about seven generations. We're thinking about quarterly returns and realizing that like eating that food, that that really comes from the highest quality source is what in the long run is going to lead us to all the good things we want.

And there's so much wisdom, like everything that we're learning now. So many of the things that you've listed off today is about our interconnectedness to nature, what it provides us, helps us thrive physiologically, even based on its own circadian rhythm and even from going back to the soil piece. Like there's wisdom within soil, like there's different microorganisms and nutrients within soils at different times of the year that help us thrive seasonally. Right. And we don't think about that, right? We don't think about eating seasonally for that reason that the fact the food was actually created to help us thrive at that time. Right. And I would even say, like, I am honest about this. The bulk of. I would say what I spend my money on is on food. Because when I look at my kitchen, when I look at my cupboard, that is our healthcare, that is my insurance policy for my, my children, for when they're, when they're older, when they have children themselves. So, you know, I was just speaking at this event, this, and I had to, I had to, in front of 20 people, raid a fridge and pull out what I thought was wrong inside the fridge. So sure enough, I'm like, oh my God, this is not going to go well. There's going to be a lot of pushback. This is. I'm in someone's home, right? And I do this with my clients, but they're the ones seeking me out here. I'm thrown on the spot to people like, oh God, what is she gonna say? She's gonna make us feel bad about ourselves. So what are some of the things that I saw? Non organic berries, right? Lots of non organic produce, frozen pizzas, chicken nuggets that you know were in terrible seed and vegetable oils, processed food with canola oils, non organic lunch meats and stuff like that. So I'm listing off all these things step by step, step. And it's like. But there are healthier options for all of these choices, right? And what I really had to find my way back to was, you know, approaching it from my heart and just simply ask the question, would your grandparents recognize the food that's in your fridge or the food that's on your plate? If your grandparents wouldn't recognize what it is, then chances are it's not real food.

Yeah.

And it's frustrating, right? But I think you nailed it. If we're not having the conversation about what the future is going to bring, or if we're not controlling with our dollar on what the future of our food and our soil is going to be, we're not going to win the battle.

No.

Right. And this is so essential and key. So I want to get to your book. Okay. So instead of just asking you about good energy, what I wanted to hear from you first. When you think about the word good energy and, you know, obviously the heart, the passion and the, the effort that went behind creating this, what is the idea of good energy? What does it make you feel? What does it embody for you? Help people understand that because more than just good energy, I know you, and I know what this means for you.

Good energy. I mean, aside from all the metabolic framework that it brings in, like, really, it is. It's a play on words, right? It's like good energy is how we make good energy in the body, like we've talked about in this episode, but really. More. My intention for this book and the wish for this book is that it really is a new vision for how we could be living in this modern world, taking the best of modernity and also just the brilliance of our body wisdom and our. Of ancient wisdom and putting it all together to help this generation of humanity and the future of humanity really thrive and to. Unfortunately, we are in a. In a situation right now where it feels like in. In many ways we've lost our way. Like, we, we. We have access to more resources, food, safety than ever before. And American happiness is plummeting, you know, and the family structure is plummeting and our health is plummeting and our lifespans are declining. So we've lost our way. And I don't think we're gonna get out of that or rewrite the ship through like, sort of like protocols or through biohacking or through war metaphors around health. I think we're gonna get to it through following the light and following what feels, what we know feels really good in our body. And what brings us to essentially a state of good energy in our bodies and in the world. And a belief that I have is that it's gonna be really hard to build a society that's radiating, vibrating with a sense of good energy if the way that we fundamentally make energy in our cells is broken. And there's so many wonderful people throughout history have said statements like, you know, be the change you want to see in yourself. Be the change you want to see in the world. Or like, if you want to change society, change yourself. That's what Nelson Mandela said. And the most fundamental way we can change ourself is by changing ourselves. And Right now, in 93 of American adults, the way that we fundamentally make energy in the body is broken. 93% of American adults have metabolic dysfunction. So how do we think we're going to have good energy in our family, city, country, world if we can't make good energy in our cells? And so I think what it makes me feel is expanded, optimistic, elevated. All those words we talked about in the beginning of the episode, like when I go out and step on the ground in the morning, when I think about a world of Good energy, like, that's how it makes me feel. And I think it's totally achievable. And I think we need a new framework about more moving towards light than just being more and more rigid and disciplined and all these things. I think we need to get back in touch with our deep, deep sense of knowing in our bodies and listen to our bodies and communicate with our bodies better, and then take the best of what modernity has given us with tools and technology to get us to the highest level we possibly can.

I really hope that this catches on and that by taking simple action, that the change happens faster. So would you say as a result, then, are metabolic factors the root of all disease?

So when we're looking at the main chronic diseases that are shortening American lives and causing premature death, and the main symptoms that people are showing up to the doctor's office with, almost every single one of them is rooted in metabolic dysfunction. That is just very clear in the literature. And it's so interesting because we think of all these diseases, heart disease, stroke, dementia, fatty liver disease, cancer, obesity, all these diseases that are shortening our lives as different. But when we zoom in and actually look inside the cell, it's the same physiology that's happening. And the reason they look like different diseases is because that same physiology is happening in different cell types. We have 200 different cell types in the body. And so bad energy, metabolic dysfunction in a brain cell, in a neuron, is going to look different on a symptom level than bad energy in an ovarian cell or in a endothelial cell of a blood vessel lining, or in a retinal cell, or in a liver cell, a paradocyte. So basically, where this metabolic dysfunction is showing up in the body can look like different things, but that doesn't mean it's actually a different thing. And so I think that the reframe and going all the way back to the beginning of the episode of where the arrow is being pointed, we're pointing the arrow right now towards these downstream manifestations of metabolic dysfunction and basically like putting lipstick on a pig to basically say, like, oh, if we can throw a few little pills on this thing or cut something out, it's going to kind of, if we squint, it's going to look like things are better. But really we need to point the arrow towards deep inside the center of the cell, so the metabolic dysfunction and heal that. And I think what you often find when you do that is that so many of these things just sort of melt, melt away. So, yes, absolutely. Metabolic dysfunction is the root of most of the suffering we're seeing in the Western world today on a health standpoint. And it's a desperate sign from the body that it's not getting what it needs to create the basic unit of life force, energy, that allows us to live our lives. So, you know, I mean, when you think about the concept of energy and metabolism, we think of metabolism such a sterile term, but like, we have to reframe metabolism of like something is so wrong in our modern world that our bodies on the most fundamental level are so distressed that our literal life force is being dimmed. The, the fundamental currency of energy that powers our consciousness, our emotions, our life, all of it is being turned down. That is the most dramatic signal you could possibly get from the body that things are not right. And we have to listen because this did not ex. This was not a problem 150 years ago. So we've got to tune into what on that more cosmic level. That saying of the fact that essentially, if you think about what is death like, death is the absence of metabolism. The only thing holding ourselves together right now, the fact that we're not just like literally a blob of goo on the ground is metabolism, it's energy that's doing the work to keep everything together. And the fact that we, almost all of us, nearly 100% of Americans, 93% of Americans, have metabolic dysfunction is essentially like saying 93% of us are one foot in the grave while we're living. It's so sad, you know, and it's this fascinating stat. Like the human population is actually cooling. Our temperature as a species is cooling. So, like, truly something about, you know, you can take this into many mystical and esoteric realms, but it's like there's something happening where there's something very wrong with how we're interacting with the. The human body is interacting with the environment and we are just absolutely being dimmed as a species. And to me, that is completely intolerable. And it's going to be my life's work to try and fix that. Because if you don't have that, what are we doing here?

I could not agree more. And it's wild. Ten years, five years ago, I used to use the word vibration all the time. Used to be completely woo woo. Now it's being accepted. You know, we can actually track this, right? The vibration of our bodies and our electromagnetic magnetic field of our hearts. And, you know, when I meet with my clients, the first thing they want to know is all Right, Mona, tell me what to eat, what's the protocol? What's the supplement plan? Just tell me what to do. And then 20 minutes later, they're in tears talking about something that happened as a child, something that's happening with their life. And when I look at my own healing journey, everyone knows what to eat. If I were to put like two plates of food in front of you people, they have a good understanding of what is healthy and what isn't. But the point that you're drawing upon is this idea of stress within the body. Stress shifts your vibration. You're talking about the vibrancy of these mitochondria. Right? So if somebody, and in today's world, they're, we are stressed, we are overstressed, we are overworked, we are, we have anxiety, we're. We're suffering. So can you shift your vibration, can you prioritize shifting your vibration every single day as a healing protocol? Right. When you shift your vibration, you obviously you're showing us that you have seen the actual shift in cells. And then physiologically, you and I just speaking about it, just think about the idea of shifting your vibration into peace and happiness and joy. Chances are you're going to make better decisions for yourself. And I love that you kind of, you move that back because that's something that our ancestors practice. They prioritize health and happiness every day. They prioritize a sense of feeling peace. I think it would have been unacceptable if people lived with the levels of anxiety that we're living with today. Yeah, right. And I think that that's one of the biggest culprits that's causing our illnesses.

Oh, my gosh. I know. I think if you probably took someone in their normal mental state that we're in the united, in the United States today with depression, anxiety, all of these issues, and plopped them into, like, the tribe, you know, so to speak. Like, people would probably stop everything and say, like, how can we help you? Like, is there, you know, what's happening? What do we need to actually, like, figure out, like, what conditions are happening such that this is the result, you know, but we take it to be just so normal today. And, you know, like we said in the beginning, like, symptoms are a gift. And I think so much of our individual work is to sit with our symptoms and really, in a quiet, earnest way, ask the symptom what it's trying to tell you. And I think I do that almost every time I'm sick now. Like, even when I had Covid recently, or if I Have an ache and pain. It's like. Like, ask that part of the body. Like, what are you trying to tell me? Like, please, with true, like, earnestness. And I think. I mean, obviously, no science to prove this, but I think what a lot of people will find is that the answers start to emerge over time of, like, what it actually was trying to tell you. I think a lot of the time, probably for us today as American women, like, it's like, you need to be, like, you need to rest. You need to say no. You need to, you know, be kind to yourself. You need to be setting better boundaries. You need to be sleeping more, you know, basically, like, caring for yourself. Yeah. And. And then when you start to implement those things, like, all of a sudden, a lot of things get better. So. Yeah. But I think you're absolutely right. And I love the vibration concept. Absolutely. And I think one of the things that it's both the easiest and the hardest part of health is our mindset and our thought patterns. And it's fascinating because. And I would love to hear your thoughts on how this gets into vibration, but, like, it's actually free and easy to wake up each morning and think and say. And have your body hear this thought of. Even if you think it's probably not going to be true, but to really try to make yourself believe it. This can be the best day of my life. This is going to be such a beautiful day of health and joy and prosperity and productivity and creativity. Like, today is going to be. Yeah. I love my. I am so proud of myself, and I'm so grateful and in awe of the fact that I get to be alive right now. And I am so grateful to every ancestor that ever came before me who allowed me to be here today to experience this. And sort of just like. Or maybe you just think one of those things. Like, this is gonna be a wonderful day. Like, those are maybe lofty. Just say, like, this is gonna be an absolutely wonderful day. And you have everything inside of you to make this a wonderful day. That's free. That takes two minutes. It will create a different hormonal and maybe a vibrational signature in your body that will probably set you up to make better choices. And yet it's kind of almost impossible, I think, for most of us to do. So many things come in there, like, what is this? This sounds like bullshit. Like, why. Why do I need to, like, say affirming thoughts and whatnot? So it's both the easiest and the hardest. But I've come to believe more and, like, everything is downstream of what we believe is possible. If we don't believe that limitless, incredible health is possible, then it's so much less likely to happen. And believing is free. Believing is just not dependent on anything. You can just believe right this second. Listening to this, like, I believe that totally boundless health is possible for me. And it literally doesn't matter, like, if it's true or not right now. Like, you can still believe something. And I think that. And I've talked to some people and so I think it's very hard for us almost to like, just embrace unbridled optimism. Like, why? So that would just be something I encourage people to do is like, start with the belief. Because when you believe it, I genuinely believe that you're going to start to see things in the world that make it easier for that thing to come out true. And if you're pessimistic about it or don't believe that it's possible, it's going to be much harder to see all the things around you that are actually there to support you in doing that. So, yeah, so I just think, you know, in terms of the vibration conversation, it's like, start with, start with that, with the thought, with the positive, with the belief that it is possible because I, A, do believe it is possible for everyone and B, it sets things in motion that are unquestionably going to make things easier for that thing to come true than if you don't believe it's possible.

God, I love you so much.

I love you.

To bring it full circle to that with me means everything. And one of my greatest dreams, my biggest dream. Can you imagine going to your doctor and then either before or after you're sitting in meditation, you're prescribed meditation in a self, love or gratitude practice while you're there as part of their prescription. Like, can you just imagine it should.

Be at every doctor's appointment?

Yes. All right. Every guest gets these questions. Closing up. What's one way that you're making healing. What's one way that we are making healing and health too complicated?

Yeah, this is. Well, this is such a great question. I think on the big picture, one of the ways we're making. This is a controversial answer, but I think the. I think that we need to be doing less nutrition research in our country. I think the more nutrition research we're doing, the more confusing it's getting. I think that we are, we are. We have a cult of evidence base in our country and what it's doing in, in the zero sum game, it's basically making us eliminate common sense. And we need to get back to using our incredible brains to make some decisions about nutrition and just ignore all the noise, like no dietary dogma. Eat real food from good sources and heal our soil. Yeah.

Fix our soil.

Yeah.

What's your favorite ancient healing remedy? And I really wanted to take this moment to honor your mom, your grandma.

Thank you. My favorite ancient healing remedy. I am a big. I mean, well, this one. Sun, for sure. Like, sun is like the ultimate healing source in my mind. When I go outside and I spend time in the sun, I feel better and happier and more in awe. But I would say I use a lot of essential oils, and I think that connecting with plants in that way is really powerful. And the one that I use almost every day is lavender oil. Um, so I use that to go to sleep, and I use that whenever I'm feeling stressed. I rub it between my hands and I smell, and it. It calms me profoundly. But also, there's a lot of science behind why the compounds in lavender oil change gene expression, our brain, and all sorts of fascinating things. So, yeah.

What's something about modern medicine that excites you?

Ooh. I think one of the things that most excites me is. Is honestly, like, I really do love the continuous bio wearables and how people are getting access to information about their body without their doctor. Like, they actually get to be the owners of their biomarkers and their bio data, because I think there's there, if used properly, these tools, it could usher in a sense of radical empowerment and agency that we have lost in the past 50 to 100 years of health healthcare. And so while I don't think they are the gateway to all health, I think that they can engender a sense of personal empowerment that is really powerful in this day and age where we've given away a lot of our power to, you know, industry and doctors. So I'm super excited about how that unfolds.

If you could leave our listeners with just one takeaway about feeling healthier, happier in their bodies, what would it be?

I think my one takeaway is that we are really, like, one meal away from, like, feeling much, much better. Like, it literally is as simple as making the choice to, like, today to make your next meal like, unprocessed, healthy whole foods. And I can almost guarantee that with just one good meal, you can start to feel better.

That's a brilliant idea for a book. Even one meal away. One meal away. You're one meal away.

Yeah.

So simple.

Yeah. One meal away from feeling better.

Dr. Casey means I adore you.

I adore you.

I wish I want an army of women like you just out in the world advocating for this. Can you tell us about when your book launches?

Yes my book Good Energy the Surprising connection between Metabolism and Limitless Health comes out on May 14 on every every you know Amazon, all the bookstores.

We.

You can see find me@casey means.com that's where all my articles and newsletter sign up are. I'm on Instagram and Twitter @Doctor Casey's Kitchen and my company is Levels Health for people who are interested in continuous glucose monitoring. At access it's levels health.com you have.

One of the best newsletters ever.

Thank you.

Yes. I ordered 10 copies for my family. I think that giving books is like the the greatest gift that you can give someone because it's intention for them to heal and feel happy. So I can't wait to give that out in the world I adore you.

Yay Mona. We did.