Financial Stability for Medics - What Does It Really Mean? | With Dr. Ndubuisi "Andy" Egwim

Welcome to today's episode of disrupting Doctors careers. And we are going back down the money route. The big M, the dirtiest word we have in the medical dictionary, the letter M for money. Right. So we've done our research, we know doctors, we are doctors. And we know, especially now with the crisis of living or living crisis, that money is an increasingly important issue for all of us, particularly considering the concerns that have been raised through striking of inflation and our salaries not keeping up with that. But ironically enough, we are known to not really be that financially savvy as doctors. We didn't go into health care for the money. We went in to help people and have a stable job. I'm putting this in inverted commas. Stable job, right. So when we recently did our research of our community this year, the, the top thing that came back as to why doctors are changing careers is because they want to find something that is financially stable. So you, you know, we know it's a huge problem and this is why we come back to money again. You know, it always ends up with money. We're not in it for the money, but money is everything. And so to discuss financial stability for medics and what that actually means, I'd love to introduce you to a dear friend of mine who I recently reconnected with. Ndabisi. Dr. Ndebisa.

Yeah.

Nigerian in my ethnic. I'm gonna do it again. Well then say as Andy Aguim, who is the founder of Money Wise Doctor. He is a gp, he is an entrepreneur and he invests. So he has got his money working for him. Anyway, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much for joining our podcast.

Thank you so much. That was a master pronunciation of my name and not too many people get it. But yeah, I'm delighted to be here. Obviously you're Welco has been inspiring to thousands, if not millions of doctors, including myself, who got a bit more active on LinkedIn in the last one year. Thereabout.

You have been noted and I engaging with your own stuff and your content and I've signed up to your mailing list and I love the stuff. Let's, let's jump into you because obviously we've had a conversation before. I was fascinated by your journey and fascinated by your expertise. But let's just start off with the basics. What does financial stability mean for you as a doctor? Because this is something that comes up a lot with doctors. Financial stability, financial security. And therefore for a lot of doctors, it means finding another employee job with a higher salary. That is the traditional way of Seeing financial stability, I personally having been through what I've been through in life and looking at Robert Kiyosaki's four quadrants, I don't necessarily see that as stable because we know and we've seen it time and time again, especially in industry or any organization, particularly some of the big startups, not mentioning any names, health tech startups, your job is never ever secure, can be made redundant, your salary may not keep up with inflation. Right. Most doctors who are in the public health care sector, they have no idea how much tax they're paying. They've got no idea what's going, going on. They just get their, their pay done and, and done. Right. So what really mean?

Absolutely. Thank you, like thank you for that. I mean some people use different terms to say financial stability and some people say financial freedom, some people say financial wellness. I mean, I'm sure we can all agree we're all talking about money here. The most important thing is how do you make sure that you build them a bulletproof or reasonably strong financial set up so that you're not that dependent on a job or one stream of income. And also even what income you make, you want to make sure that you create a setup financially that you're not shaken by things going wrong. So that's sort of financial stability. And I'll give some examples. There's a big push towards health tech and jobs in industry and your team that's been around for 10 years. I keep saying 10 years because 10 days is difficult, but 10 years is even another level of continuing to be there and not go away and do something else. Yeah. So a lot of pushing into industry and all that, people can get better jobs, they might get higher paying jobs, they might even get a bit more fulfilled. But if they had bad money habits, they had bad money setups, if they didn't have those sort of like, if they didn't have those 10 money wise rules we always talk about in our sort of money wise doctor, they are bound to eventually end up where they started even if you ended up doubling your income. If you take a look at it, maybe a lot of doctors, let's say consultants, GPs, who are the bulk of people who we deal with in our mailing list and all that. If you go back 10 years, they probably end far less than what they earn now, but now they probably earning a bit more and there's inflation and all that. But a lot of times the question is where has the money gone?

No, no, absolutely, yeah. It's where, where does the money go? As you get older, there's more financial, like responsibilities. You get mortgage, you get this, you have kids, you want to, you know, you want to do all of that stuff. Your income goes up, you spend more. And that is where the trap is, right?

I like the word trap because that's what it is. Eventually people fall into this trap and they think, obviously they think getting more money might solve it. But not having a good financial stable plan, what you end up doing, like you have a hole in your pocket, so you're pouring more money into the hole, but it's only going to drain through the hole. And if there's a financial catastrophe, for instance, my last podcast, I had a consultant who radiologist who lost her job due to her eyesight. If something comes out from the left field, that even adds to the whole mix and makes it so we're talking about having a setup in such a way that you are able to withstand the pressures planned for and unplanned for. And like you said, a lot of doctors, unfortunately these things are not taught in medical school. And we're getting busy, unfortunately. If you Google to look for the best sort of like way to go, there's no clear. Is hard to find really clear guidance for doctors to make a plan for yourself. And then this is what I'm going to do for the next 10, 20 years. So having a stable financial plan is sort of our whole ish@moneywisedoctor.com yeah, no, absolutely.

And it's about the planning, isn't it? And I guess the question is, should it be taught in medical school? Should it be taught as part of our training? Whose interest is it? And really for us to be financially stable?

This is a big question, but you always ask the brave. You always ask brave questions. Do we really want the answer to that? Maybe we should delve into it. But here's me and you, for example, I think I go two, three months of having not stepped into a GP surgery, maybe travel to us. I'm able to do this podcast with you on a Wednesday afternoon. That's because we've got a bit of financial flexibility or financial freedom, financial stability, whatever people choose to call it, if we didn't have that opportunity, obviously you have to be in your job 9 to 5, day to day to make sure that you're just able to meet the minimum to be able to get through. So I think it's a good idea to train doctors as part of the curriculum. But is that going to happen? Will doctors have too many options? Would that mean that they can then go and come as they like. So I'm not saying there's a conspiracy not to teach doctors these things, but I'm just thinking that basic financial intelligence should be part of the curriculum. It should be something that doctors should come out because it's keeping in touch with the times. The doctors are no longer just guaranteed stuff. That you have a stable job, then you're going to have a fantastic pension and then everything is going to go well. So it should be like part of a life, skills what people learn in school and what people learn along their journey and whether it's done as a separate course or something that doctors do in medical school and I mean doctors, dentists, obviously, healthcare professionals as a whole. Yeah, I think is really something that should be thought about carefully.

Yeah, I mean I, I personally agree but I think it should start at Montessori School, nursery school basically. That's where I think and you should know most of everything by the time you get to medical school. So actually it shouldn't. Do you know what I mean? But you know, think about how the world would be if we all had a really good financial education from the start.

I agree with you just from my own personal experience. You mentioned Robert Kiyosaki. I came across Robert Kiyosaki as a teenager living in Africa. I was living in Nigeria where I was born and I wasn't from a particularly financially literate background and I was self taught, started investing as a teenager. Just coming across it earlier on in my career before I went to med school, it cleared any sort of illusions or notions and also sort of like having relatives that were doctors. I just knew that, you know the pathway of just getting a job and sort of like, or being self employed is not the pathway to financial freedom. I mean if you are like sort of like one of the co founders or maybe you were the first employee in Google or Microsoft and all that and you got options and all that, maybe you'll be fine. But for the average doctor just working as an employee it's quite difficult to get to that level of financial freedom earlier in your career where you've got options in terms of what you can do. So yes, maybe we should go back to Nazare. I'm sorry for, for those who can afford and it's unfortunate it's not something for some people, they learn this in their families. You're growing up if you're from a family where just like we're talking a little bit about your musical background kids. I didn't know if you grew up in the background where there's music, you just learn it, you don't need to be taught. But also everyone can get through life without having to play piano as bad as I play it or as, as good as you sing. But most people can't go through life without these two things, your money and your life. So your health is that big part of your money also affects your health, basically because being able to go for a walk on Monday evening, Monday afternoon, sometimes not having to do the extra shift or sometimes has a role to play in terms of mental health burnout and you enjoying your work. I'd imagine that if you have the option of being able to come and go, it sometimes increases your enjoyment of the job.

No, absolutely. I think that's what a lot of doctors are looking for. They want to have that flexibility in their careers so that if they do need to take time off work, whether it's for health reasons, for family reasons, for a career sabbatical, that they aren't financially trapped in a certain situation that they'd rather be out of. And I think that's one of the problems that we see amongst doctors that can lead to burnout. It can lead to just really low.

Morale.

Times where your values aren't aligned because you're wet, you're somewhere where you don't want to be. And we see it, we see it all the time, but just going back to career transitions. So we, you know, most doctors that we see are like, you know, I want a better paid job. Right. We've already talked about the trap of the better paid job. Like if you don't have the habits in place to manage that money effectively, you'll end up as rich as you were before this better paid job.

Yeah, absolutely, absolutely. Yeah.

But let's talk about, I'd love to hear your thoughts on. Yeah, the financial stability thing. So whether it's an employed, self employed business. I mean, you've had experience. Investor, I should say as well, you've had experience of all. So let's talk about Robert. Let's talk about good old Robert. Rich dad, poor dad.

Yeah, I mean, absolutely.

The book, I'm sure you've all read it, guys are listening to this. Four quadrants. Employed business, owner, self employed and investor. Which of those best leads to financial stability? You've done all four. Yes. I want to you what are your thoughts? How would you advise a doctor considering all four quadrants when most are going to the E quadrant, the employers, the employed arrangement. Because that essentially is all they know and that's what we've been told. Get a job and you'll be fine. Get another job and you'll be fine.

Well, we're looking at sort of like disrupting people's mindset about this thing. That's what your podcast is about. Mine was disrupted very early on, sort of as a teenager. That's why right from medical school I was launching my first business, my second business, raising a bit of funding where I needed to and starting to invest as a teenager. And also you seem to have taken also the appeal and you obviously very early on. But yeah, I agree with you. If there was sort of like a board we could draw the squadrons. There's the E quadrant employee quadrant and then there's self employed which most people translate to I'm a very good doctor so I could just start my private practice but it's just me. And then there's the B quadrant business where like you've got like medics footprints, you're leading a team, you're sort of like building out products, you're trying to get assets, you're trying to sort of like collaborate because, because it's a team, sports. And then there's the I quadrant, an investor which is a quadrant which I really love and I've been playing in for almost two decades. So yeah, it's really difficult to go from an employee to financial freedom. I mean you could get the golden handcuffs where you could get a highly paid. I speak to a lot of consultants and GPs who they've got highly paid jobs. Sometimes they've got a highly paid private job and they've got like private practitioners or they've got like a locum and they're getting all that income. But if they stopped working, working suddenly is all gone, nothing. I mean some don't even have the basic income protection which means that if they're suddenly unable to earn income, that's it. And they haven't got investments or things that could yield stuff for them even when they are not there. So that's the equadrant. There's the S quadrant which is obviously self employed. They are super, super person. S stands for specialized, S stands for skilled, S stands for, you know, I'm very good in doing it sort of focuses on skills and technical skills. It could be a lawyer, a do, accountant, it doesn't matter. But everything stands and falls on you. And for some people they might even assume that they're business but they actually have a highly paid self employed job because they can't take a break and go Away like you go to Italy and come back and your business is still running. That's excadrent. Yeah. I'm just thinking about your trip.

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I'm doing all four at the same time, to be honest. So I'm not employed. Well, I'm employed in my own business.

Oh yeah. That's one way to look at it as well. Because at the end of the day, some people, we all have to start from somewhere. For myself, I haven't come from wealth or privileged background and had to raise money, actually borrow money. But we say raise in business. Borrow money to pay my first medical school fees and then by the time I live in medical school, I was quite independently. Well, not. So people don't use. Well, they'll say independently. Financially stable. Yeah. And adoption. So a lot of us have to start from somewhere. You have to start in the equadrant employed quadrant, especially if you're not a gross vendor from the royal family but you want to move into the other quadrant, which is like the B and I on the right, the business quadrant where you build a business and asset that generates income and the I quadrant where you invest. So for some people it's going to be going from. I'm earning a high income but I've got a systematic way to invest every month. So I'm in investing for my financial future. I'm investing in the stock market or something. Yeah, Holding a book up. I'm trying to see what book that is.

It's Robert Kiyosaki's.

Oh, you've got it right there.

Louise. Thank you, Louise.

Oh, wow, that's amazing. I think my own copy might be a bit old now. Yeah, that's fantastic.

The cash flow quadrant book. Sorry I interrupt. Actually I was going to say going back to ebi.

Yeah, esbi. So the I quadrant is the investor quadrant where you invest and for some of us is investing the basics is sort of like setting up your direct debits Isa whatever we invest. For me, I analyze companies, I jump on company investment investors calls. I've been in Omaha recently for Warren Buffett Berkshire Hathaway shareholders meeting. I don't expect every doctor to have to do that. This is something I'm interested in, I've been doing for many years. Most doctors can actually invest in broad based diversified index funds that they can actually invest and still be able to beat. Most professional investors, actually 99% of them was actually even starting the journey. For many doctors, they start very late to invest and if you started early, then compounding starts working on your behalf and you don't really need to know everything, you just need to know the key things. So these are sort of like, like a quick run through of the quadrants. I'm sure that we could spend a couple of hours actually delving into each quadrant.

I think it's fantastic and I think it's definitely something that everyone should keep in mind to consider when you make those decisions. And especially changing careers, becoming financially stable, what that looks like, and to remember that it's never too late. I know you talked about compounding and actually that is. Oh, I don't have the book here. There's another book that I also always recommend to my fellows is the Compound Effect.

The Compound Effect. I love how you have all the physical books just within reach.

I mean, I've had on holiday with me to Italy to finish it. Now I'm actually going to take some action on it. But I mean, you mentioned compounding. Tell us more about what that actually means.

Right, so compounding. Now about Einstein, which I'm sure most of us know because your audience is doctors and doctors are smart. Albert Einstein, one of the foremost scientists of the last century, theory of relativity and all that, describe compounding as the eighth wonder of the world. Describe it as the eighth wonder of the world. I say that those who do not understand it paid and those who understand it end it. So basically, if you go back to mass compound interest, this is what it is. And this doesn't just apply to money, it applies to habits, it applies to everything. It applies to network. But we're talking specifically about money. It's basically small, continuous investment in a certain direction. If you're getting positive returns, the returns actually, actually give a fantastic result over a long period of time. So it's hard to our minds as sort of doctors and basically human beings, it's hard, it's not intuitive. If you think about it. For instance, if you started to invest and you're investing, let's say, £100 monthly, £100 monthly, and you did that over a period of 20 years, the results you're going to get is not 100 times 12 times 20, it's probably something more like 100 times 12 times 20 times 5. And this is sort of like, we're not doing public math here, but basically the, the years of compounding is really, really quite hard to grasp. But a lot of it, it translates to food. Let's say you eat ice cream daily and if you like ice cream, knock yourself out. And if you like a lot of pizza and the recipe enjoy. But if you eat it daily, a little every time, let's say in 20 years time, the person could become unwell, morbidly obese and all that. The same. Some habits like you exercise daily, even a 30 minutes exercise, it doesn't have to be something really, you know, fantastic, don't have to be a CrossFit brew or a babe, but basically just little efforts continuously tend to compound over time. Yeah. So sort of compounding, the way I look at it is little efforts over time tend to give big results. That's the simple way to explain compounding without delving into the mathematical Ned stuff.

No, I think, I think you've described it perfectly to be honest. And again, it's something that I think people need to grasp and really appreciate. As you mentioned, we talk about money, but also habits is a key. And then money habits is another thing, right?

Absolutely.

Not to underestimate the small seeming, seemingly insignificant efforts or habits. As you talked about 100, even if it's 50, even if it's 10, putting that away over time will eventually exponentially grow massively. And so that would be the same as for example, we, you know, we're all busy people, right?

Yeah.

Have you said to yourself, I can't do that, I'm too busy, I'll do that later, I'm too busy, I've got a lot on. And you're like expecting this big period of time to kind of just like appear so that you can do that thing, Right? How many times we put things off. But realistically, and then we see this in career change. A lot of doctors tend to put off career change because it feels like it's too big or they want to sit down and do some work on it. And you know, and it's like that, that procrastination period also has a negative exponential effect. So the longer you're waiting, the, the more challenges that you face over time for so many different reasons that I'm not even going to get, get into.

Absolutely. I mean the negative compounding beats that.

Exactly, exactly. What we advise is, you know, make some time anytime, 10, 15, 20 minutes. I'm sure we all have that, that we can really focus on in a day. It's probably better to focus on 15 minutes than none. Right. Or 15 minutes and 30 minutes for some people. Right. You know, everyone's got this attention issue with all these distractions in life. So focus on that 15 minutes every single day and see what happens after at least three months, whatever it is, because it does Time is a really important thing and we live in a world of, you know, in instant gratification. Yeah, you're, you know, Amazon, the Amazon thing. I want my food, it's now, here.

Now, you know, one in now. I want my returns now as well.

It's so easy to forget that all good things happen over time and the narratives that people share. You know, again, career change. Yeah, I decided to go into pharma and then I applied and I got in like. But no one fills in the gaps.

No, it doesn't make for a good LinkedIn story. I mean, you're one of our most foremost LinkedIn black belt. So you know that if you say I started my career journey and it took me this and that. Who wants to read that story? It's easier to say, oh, I just started investing and now I'm a multimillionaire, I'll tell you how. But you need to read the gaps, read the rest of the story. Can I give you two examples? One of them relates to you of compounding. So the first one, I'll save yours for the later. The first one is Warren Buffett, who I'm a big fan and even back when I was a teenager, influenced a lot of my investing philosophy, obviously. Benjamin Graham. I've got a book of mine as well, the Intelligent Investor. Yeah, I'm not sure saying clearly. Yeah, so this is a natty book. Not everyone needs to read it if you're not going into quantitative. Sorry, if you're not going to an investment analysis. But yeah, that influenced my thinking. But Warren Buffett, who is one of the, well, most well known celebrated investors in the world, and he's a multi billionaire now, 180 billion or whatever, I don't know how much it is he owns, but he's in billions. At 60 years of age, he was worth about $3 billion. And then at, let's say 80, almost 90 thereabouts, he's worth about 180 or whatever the current net worth is. So it's sort of like all his life, he started investing at 14 or whatever. The difference from 3 to 180 happening within that period of time. That's sort of what compounding could do. I mean, Even before his 50th birthday, he was still not a billionaire. And then you suddenly see that jump. So that's how compounding could work. Things could just sort of like, work. And obviously it can work against you as well. We've seen people in debt, believe it or not. I'm sure you come across these things A lot of doctors struggling with debt, they've got like seven credit cards and we're trying to restructure the debt and try to get them to sort of get better habits and all that. The second example is you. So 10 years ago you started this Medics footprints. And I believe you've worked very hard at it, but I don't believe you've worked on it every waking hour. You're a master network and all that. But it's always been probably you put in the effort, Put in the effort, you put in on regular basis and then it's going into a massive network, I would say, because it's easy to underestimate what someone has achieved because it's very close to us. I don't know if you said last time you had like 90,000 or some massive in the mailing list, but was there a big jump? Was there a big trick you pulled out of the bag and suddenly you jumped to that? It's obviously, I'll be interested to hear. It sounds more like it's something that has compounded over time.

That's a good question. I look back and I, to be honest, I was, you know. And this goes back to the conversation of tracking your results. Yeah, Always, frequently and diligently tracking those numbers. We were tracking it on and off, but I can't absolutely say there was a time where there was a big jump thing. But then, yeah, it's it. I think, to be honest, I think it's just organically gradual. There wasn't like any hurrah soaring. But, you know, looking at some of the individual things that we are doing, have we seen big jumps or exciting jumps? Again, I can't say that there have been any exciting jumps. Yeah, it's been gradual. So basically, in order to see the jump of the leap, you have to always look back, but your tracking has to be absolutely on it. Like for example, yeah. Looking at the numbers of people who have watched our podcast us, like seeing the numbers per episode grow regularly is. Yeah, keep on looking at the data. Always be looking at the data. Even looking at, say, LinkedIn followers, I, you know, I remember was it two years ago, I was at like 6,000 or something over Christmas.

Okay.

Now I'm over 10,000.

Oh, wow. Okay.

There was a big jump at any point in time. That was like a gradual thing. I know people have have exponentially grown their LinkedIn. I've been very much on and off doing my thing, but I, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's it is really interesting, actually, you brought up those two points, but I mean, going back to the last point, it is, I think, one of the things doctors don't realize, especially with financial stability, especially with managing your money, you always just need to track everything.

Yep.

Track your habits, spending, track what you're putting aside. Track, you know, track everything.

Yeah, I suppose people, when they hear tracking, they get a bit, oh, I don't want to be a penny pincher. I don't want to be. I'm not a penny pincher by any chance. And I don't actually tend to do like a regular type of budget. But tracking, you need to have some key elements that you look out for, isn't it? Like, for instance, you might have opportunities for big jobs, maybe you get some extra income, or you have a sales campaign that works really well, or you have like, sort of like a prom or like, in my case as an investor, there was Covid, which was a big bonanza to invest in really good companies at discount and all that. So those things happen, but they are once in a, you know, once in a lifetime opportunity. They don't happen all the time. So when it comes to tracking for doctors, when it comes to finance, I tend to say, look at the big picture, look at the big things. One, are you investing 15 to 20% of your income for your retirement? Are you doing it automatically? Are you doing. In a tax efficient way? Are you doing that at low cost? Are you making, make sure you're not paying any silly fees to advisors that actually are not doing much better than the S&P 500? They're not doing better than investing passively. Or maybe if you might need an advice. I've had times I've had to hire teams of advisors in terms of asset protection. If you needed to do a trust or thingy like that, or you need insurance, like life insurance, income protection, obviously you can't buy those things. You can't buy them without an advice. Most times you need an advisor to make sure you're getting the right. But tracking those key numbers, understanding those things for those in the nhs, unlike me and you, I'm sure we don't have NHS pension, but for those in the nhs, NHS pension being fantastic, Are you at least once in a year, are you? Are you?

Yeah. I mean, you don't touch it. You can leave the NHS and still keep your pension and hopefully.

Oh, congratulations.

I was assuming, I mean, like, you don't, you don't tend to do anything with it, you just leave and it's Just there doing whatever you want and then. But to be honest, I'm not someone that I don't plan to rely on my pension anytime soon.

Yeah.

My, you know, everything that I'm building, everything, all of that stuff that. Those are my assets.

Yeah.

No, yeah. I never, I've never got to a point where I'm like, oh yeah, I'm going to live off my pension. Hell no. Because I know I'm not going to be able to live with my friendship.

You're not going to be able to take your whole family. Can you take it? Can you take your whole family to Italy like you're doing right now to on your pension? That might be a bit tricky.

Well, that's the thing. Like, you know, recently I recently went to Italy with my family and to visit family.

Yeah.

But I mean there are little things that I do in my life to make things more affordable, more tax efficient, etc. Etc. And so it was a family trip and as you know it's a team lead for the travel doctorpreneurs. Yeah, travel going to the, to the destinations, promoting the destinations like that can be seen as a tax deductible expense because it's still my work.

There you go.

And so again that, that just may. And also using the travel business itself also makes that experience more affordable than it would be if I wasn't in the travel business. It's not like loads I'm making like, you know, I'm not making loads off it but every little help. So if you talk about compounding. Yeah we have done looking at. Because I love to travel, I want to travel more and I'd rather say release a small amount regularly than expect like big, big discounts because that just doesn't happen, especially with the travel industry. Post Covid. It's really hard.

Absolutely. I mean every little helps just like you've said. And a lot of times again it's not one big chunk of thing that happens and then you hit a record level, you're going to buy a Ferrari or something like that. It's usually little things compounding, changing. A lot of times people hear about money wise doctor and they think oh yeah, you're not going to transform your life suddenly but you can transform your plan immediately and then have a plan you're working towards. For instance, you've just mention mentioned something really important, tax efficiency, which is one of the 10 things we talk about being tax efficient. A lot of doctors don't know about ISAs like having your lifetime ISA things like your cash ISA for your emergency fund stock and shares ISA. You know the amount of tax I would have had to pay on capital gains and dividends if I didn't have a stock and share ISA. So you could put up to £20,000 annually in all these ISAs for now. I mean, it could be 25k in the future. Who knows who wins the election?

Or just per ISA. It's cumulatively, isn't it?

Sorry, yeah. Cumulatively is £20,000. And we could delve into ISAs a little bit more if he's something that.

You think, remember we've got an international audience and some people are like, what's an isa?

Yeah, let's, let's, let's, let's. I've been in the US and they don't know what ISA is, but they've got their own 401. They've got 401k and I've talked to doctors in Canada, they've got different plans. But basically it's being tax efficient. Finding out what's in your own area, your local, in your national state, wherever you are. What's the best tax efficient options? You mentioned limited company being what can you do through a business? I own some properties and I hold them in an spv. So special purpose vehicle. A limited company. The same with you running your business through a limited company. And it boils down even to some locum doctors, locum GPs, who can work outside what we call IR35 in the UK, they could be in a position where they could function as a business and it makes a massive difference because my to hire maybe an admin person and that's a bit of your tax expense reduce. You're paying your life insurance, income protection is going out as a limited company, you're paying. Sometimes I need a company vehicle and yes, some doctors have done this and you can need a company vehicle to get about where you are. And in the uk, if you buy a fully electric vehicle, you can actually deduct 100% of it. And when. I mean some doctors, I mean, including the one speaking now. Yeah. So sort of like understanding all the advantages.

Nearly four years old actually this year, my time here ever, I have to say. And thank you, my company, for buying that Tesla. Seriously, because we were looking for a family vehicle.

Yeah.

Because I had a lovely Nissan Micro convertible I'd had since 2012.

Yeah.

No, 2008 even. Sorry. A long time. And then with the baby on the way, I needed more space and I was not looking at Tesla's. Can I just say beforehand and I have a friend from school, Tesla, and I was like, that is such a wanky move. I don't have the money to pay for that. And then pulled out the whole, oh, you can get tax deducted, like benefit in kind through your business. And Absolutely. It's like. And then they can also get a charger for your house. They don't do that anymore.

Actually.

The EV charges, the grants, the government.

Grants, there's always changes through the government.

So again, like, it is about getting a great, getting a great network, number one, who know this information and also having a tax advisor to be like, why aren't you doing this for me?

Absolutely. I mean, just imagine the difference is made in terms of like, again, going back to every little helps. Every little eventually becomes big. Yeah. Imagine the difference it makes in terms of what you can. But just to point out something there for a doctor, it's hard to track all those stuff. Like there are changes. For instance, when I got my initial ev, not a Tesla, there was. The grant was still available, but that's gone. But there are new things keep coming up. And how does a busy doctor really keep track of these things? We say you don't really have to become a junkie, a news junkie, or keep track of everything that is happening. We tend to suggest there's just three things, and one of them you're already doing, obviously, is to read at least one book, one financial book every year. You read so many books as a doctor, if you could just read just one. How do you expect to keep on top of your finances if you can't just read at least one? And it could be an audiobook, it could be a, you know, just reading one book every year. That's the first. And secondly, we talk about following a podcast or newsletter or whatever. It's even better if it's for doctors because then it's specific to you. But something every week that just drops a snack or something tells you this is what's happening, happening, this is what's changing, this is what you need to do. And number three is attending sort of like a financial seminar every year. It could be like an audio webinar or even a conference mastermind that just keeps you sharp and it doesn't take all your time because not everyone is a financial nerd that wants to talk about all money all day. My wife certainly is not. And that's part of why I said money wise doctor, she was fed up and. But yeah, take your ideas, let other people hear it. Because I was spending too much time on the phone explaining these things to. With hundreds of doctors. Yeah. So those three things can actually help you as a doctor to sort of like keep pace and sort of like make sure you're staying on top of things so that you can have your Tesla as well and do it in a very tax efficient way. I haven't got a Tesla by the way.

I mean they're great, I think. Well, the Teslas, I have to say, specifically once you've had a Tesla, it's really difficult to go back. Thank you. And Debisa Andy.

Yeah.

Thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your insights as a doctor, as an investor, as a business owner, as a GP and as you like. You know, it's incredible the amount of the story. We didn't actually get to hear the whole of your story. How you have built yourself your knowledge based on the learnings of so many people around you and the fact that you're willing to build a community and share that knowledge and support, support a whole movement of doctors in doing the same thing. So thank you very much. If anyone wants to get hold of you, how do they best do that?

Yeah. Yeah. Thank you for inviting me to podcast the Big privilege. I admire your work. Finding me is very easy. Yeah, I can't hide anymore. Is morningwisedoctor.com and for doctors listening to this we tend to give out them free resource that can help you immediately within the next 14 days start planning your, your, your financial life with a clear plan is through moneywisedoctor.com subscribe. So if you do that it will take you to our newsletter page. If you click on the subscribe button on the same page we've got like a scorecard that you can actually just take a quick quiz for three minutes. You can find where the financial holes are and start doing something about it immediately.

Brilliant. Brilliant. And as you know, at Medic Footprints we are building the world's largest doctor led organization who are focused on empowering others to secure their own financial future. So join us@medicfitprints.org travel and join us. We're all learning and we're all aiming for the same thing. So let's do it together. So thank you so much Andy.

Absolutely. Thank you for having me. It's been a delight.

Great.