The Creator Economy — with Nuseir Yassin

America leads the world in medicine development. It matters. We get new medicines first, nearly 3 years faster. 5 million Americans go to work because we make medicines here at home. And not relying on other countries keeps us safe. But China is racing to overtake us. Will we let them? Or will we choose to stay ahead? When America leads, America cures. Let's tell Washington to keep us in the lead.

Learn how at americacures.com. Paid for by Pharma. Protein is now at Starbucks and it's never tasted so good. You can add protein cold foam to your favorite drink or try one of our new protein lattes or matcha. Try it today at Starbucks.

The holiday season is upon us.

Yeah, I fucking hate the holidays. My dad used to swing by after my mom and dad were divorced and like bring in a skateboard and my mom would like go to the other end of the house 'cause she didn't wanna see him. Fa la la. Anyway, so that means we need to do things a little differently on the pod this week. We typically start off with insights around a particular business trend or story, but today we're busting right into our interview with Nuseir Yassin, the host of the Nas Daily vlog and the CEO of Nas Academy, an edtech company for content creators. We discussed with Nuseir Yassin's path to building an online following of 40 million people, the state of the social media ecosystem, and the future of the creator economy. Wow, 40 million followers, and he has 7 children and acts like an 8-year-old. Oh no, that's Elon Musk. Anyways, he's clearly an impressive young man who, to use his words, is obsessed with maximizing his human potential. So with that, here's our conversation with Nuseir. Nuseir, where does this podcast find you?

This podcast finds me in Lisbon, Portugal. I'm here for Web Summit.

Let's bust right into it. For the listeners who aren't one of your 40 million followers, give us an overview of who you are and what the Nostalgie is.

So my name is Nuseir Yassin. I was born and raised in Israel as a Palestinian. I do not recommend this background to anybody. I studied in, in America at Harvard. I graduated. I worked at Venmo as a software engineer. Then I decided to sort of create content because creator economy is the future. Uh, you don't need CNN. I know you got a job at CNN, but honestly, man, you don't need CNN. Uh, I don't need it to reach people.

Yeah. I'm going the other way. I was a creator. Now I'm going to the, to the big network. Uh, you're, you just busted straight direct to consumer.

It's crazy. It's crazy. So, you know, I came to realize that the institution is gonna die. Gatekeepers are like not necessary. So I started making videos. "Put them on the internet. Put them on Facebook." And Nas Daily was one of the first creators on Facebook and became one of the biggest as well. Now, I made 1,000 videos in 1,000 days and that blew up. And we tell stories. We're like Humans of New York, but video format. Now, I'm building a company called Nas Academy, which is essentially identical to Section4, your company.

Well, that's good to know. With 40 million followers, it's nice to have competitors that have a built-in audience. Let's go back to kind of the Nas Daily. What, so there's a ton of people out there that like to think of themselves as part of the creator economy and influencers. What did you do right? What was it? Talk a little bit about the platforms, the type of content. Is there an algorithm for success? Because there are millions of people that look at what you've done and think, I wanna do that.

Yeah, that's a great question. I think everybody wants to do it. I don't think many people are willing to put the effort. The reason why Nas Daily succeeded is one, repetition like crazy. 1,000 videos in 1,000 days. You never miss a day even if you're going to the hospital. So, the idea is when you make a mistake on day 55, you fix it on day 56. Two is the content has to be universal. Nobody cares about your internal lingo. Nobody cares about, uh, your favorite beach in, in Senegal. That's not interesting. And so I think the simplicity of Nas Daily videos, the repetition of 1,000 days, and the, the shortness of it— every video is 1 minute long— and also the format and the platform you choose. I chose Facebook because I believed that it's going to become a video platform 5 years ago, and we were right. I didn't choose YouTube because the discoverability in YouTube wasn't very good. So, format, location, length, repetition, and passion.

And your primary point of distribution, you've kind of gone all in on Facebook. Have you gone to Instagram Stories? Have you embraced TikTok, LinkedIn?

Yeah, so 80% of our followers now on Facebook and 20% are on YouTube, Instagram, TikTok, but we also, we localize. So, you know, funny thing, Scott, This podcast is in English, so only 20% of the world can understand us. The 80% of the world does not give a crap about our conversation. And so now we built technology to localize our content to 13 different languages, and we have 13 different pages, Nas Daily Hebrew, Nas Daily Arabic, Nas Daily Vietnamese. And that's how you can get massive growth around the world because there's a scarcity of content.

So you're at sort of the helm of the bobsled. You see what platforms are increasing and waning in influence and power. How has has the ecosystem changed? Who's gone up, who's gone down in the years that you've been putting out content?

[Speaker] I like to think that the tide rises for all boats. Actually, I'd like to get your opinion on this one, but I believe that if you compare us 5 years ago, every single platform is doing better than before, from YouTube to Facebook. I don't see any platform that will have a decrease in content consumption, at least in the next 3 years, because even if Facebook dies in America, It's the internet in Egypt. It's thriving in Egypt. YouTube is thriving. TikTok is thriving. So I do see though that there's a shift to shorter 1-minute content, and that's what we specialize in. And I do see that eventually in the long run, all platforms will become a commodity. YouTube Shorts is identical to TikTok. It's identical to Instagram Reels. So you make the same content and it goes to all 4 distribution platforms. It doesn't matter what platform you're on anymore as long as you get distribution.

And how do you— what's the business model? How do you monetize this content?

You know, from the 1,000 videos, and you're going to find this funny, I made 1,000 1-minute videos on Facebook and I made $0 from ad revenue because you cannot monetize 1-minute-long videos, and not on TikTok, not on Instagram. I mean, Dude, the creator economy is the future, but right now everybody's shitting on it, right? There is no respect to the value that creators are giving to the platforms. And that's when I realized I cannot build a business on top of an algorithm and an ad revenue. I need to diversify. So speaking engagements, production studio, I built a production studio as well as making branded content for governments, tourism boards, and corporates. So that's, um, you know, every creator needs to become a business. You need to get sales managers, uh, editors. Uh, so we built that over the last 5 years.

So you're using your videos, if you will, it's almost like marketing, and then you monetize it with speaking or custom publishing. Yeah, understood. And do you see an opportunity to go to maybe a Substack or Patreon where they've kind of flipped the model? I've always said that Facebook and YouTube give less than 1 or 2% of their revenue to creators. And then there's some people have popped up and said, we'll give you 80 or 90%. Have you thought about, have you thought about using any of these platforms?

I actually built my own platform eventually. We built something called Nas Academy, which, you know, if I'm gonna monetize my consumers, my customers, my audience, I wanna get, actually, I don't wanna get $5 from you. I actually, I wanna own the platform. So, that's why we raised venture capital and we're building Nass Academy. I think with Patreon, I think it's a good idea. I am a bit worried of platforms that don't give you distribution. I'm very worried about that because in the long, long run, technology will become a commodity and therefore all prices will go down to zero.

I've always thought the creator economy, I love the idea of it. I love the egalitarian nature of it. I love the fact that great content can break through and you can bypass the gatekeepers of YouTube or Comcast or CNBC, whatever it might be, but it does feel like the Gini coefficient inequality is really striking in that if you look at Substack, I think the top 10 content areas or the top 10 Substackers are, you know, 50, 60% of the content. Do you think that's just a natural function of kind of the best just warrants more? When everyone has access to everything, everyone wants the best. Are you finding the same thing? How do you get rid of that, that kind of creator inequality, if you will, or can you?

I was thinking about that yesterday. I think you can get rid of that by tweaking the algorithms. I think actually the algorithm is designed to create a Gini coefficient that is so high. It's designed so that it favors, it chooses its top tier and it just like powers all the attention to them as opposed to building a middle class. So the simplest solution to building a creator middle class is literally tweak YouTube, Facebook, TikTok algorithms, and all of a sudden you have a middle class. Then the second is education. Once you educate people on like, if you get the knowledge from the top and distribute it to the bottom through this education, NAS Academy or whatever, Skillshare or whatever, then you can get another creator middle class. Because the reason why people don't know how to create is not because they're not talented, it's because they don't have the social circle or the community. 'Cause creating is still a very lonely job.

So to use an old world analogy, there was the cable provider and then there was the content creators, the ESPNs of the world. And there's always a tension between who has power. There's the retailer and the manufacturer's brand. Your view is that the content, there's gonna be a huge power shift back to, from the gatekeepers or the points of distribution to the content creators. Why do you think that is? It still feels as if with Apple charging a 30% toll and everybody's still pitching Netflix executives, what dynamics do you think are gonna lead to this switch in power?

So here is what I think is happening, and I'd love to get your opinion on this. When we first started with social media, everybody loved my friend's post. Oh, my friend's dog, amazing, like. My grandma's dog, amazing, like. So social media platforms had a lot of supply of content and a lot of demand for content. But when stories started to become a thing, 24-hour stories started to become a thing, and we started to realize that most of the content disappeared. There's no more supply of good content for these social media platforms. And the content that existed is just articles and my grandma's birthday wishes. That's not engaging enough for a platform to survive. They're noticing that they have a lot of demand for content, not enough supply of it. Supply is king because demand is there already. That's why creators are the suppliers of content. That's why I think platforms will need them. Now, there's a competition for this supply. TikTok is stealing all the supply. Now, Facebook has to put $1 billion to get that supply back. I am the supply and I'm very excited to see social media platforms fight over my content.

So you're, you're saying now that there, because there's more, there's more competition, there's more points of distribution, yeah, that the content is becoming the kind of the more rare commodity. And are you seeing different platforms come to you and offer you more, if you will, for your content? Do you get offered, say, a big contract for exclusive distribution on certain types of content?

Yeah, I think every creator gets that if they reach success, from Spotify Podcast Originals to Facebook Originals to Snapchat shows to now we just started a LinkedIn show because I do believe LinkedIn is going to be the next video creator platform that's a hidden beast that is just waiting to erupt. And you see it in the $100 million creator funds and $250 million creator funds, $1 billion creator funds. We also give minimum revenue guarantees to our creators to come to our platform. I think the power is shifting towards the creator, and that's a good thing.

So I love LinkedIn. What is it about LinkedIn that you think is this sleeping giant about to be stirred?

What I think about LinkedIn is that everybody, same thing, incredible demand for the newsfeed of LinkedIn, incredibly bad supply of content. It's a disequilibrium. That network has not reached equilibrium when it comes to content demand and supply. And so, they also realize that the competition is now video. It's a video-first world, yet all the content on LinkedIn is text and images and articles. Not good enough, not monetizable enough. So, that's why first of all, LinkedIn, I suspect, is going to become 60% video. I suspect, 60% video and the LinkedIn profile is going to change. I mean, Scott, I don't care about where you went to school 30 years ago. I care about your latest post when I go to your LinkedIn profile. I need to see it. That's why it's exciting.

Have you thought about product placement or other ways to monetize that content?

Yeah. The biggest product is my company.

You see this as kind of the front end for Nas Academy, if you will?

For investors and recruiting, yes. So my— the benefit I get from LinkedIn distribution is that every follower on LinkedIn, every viewer in LinkedIn is worth 100 viewers on Snapchat and TikTok. At some point in a creator's life, you don't just want more and more kids to watch your content, you want investors and potential candidates to watch it. And that's why a LinkedIn viewer is 100 times more valuable than an Instagram viewer. Coming up after the break, I spent my formative years in one of the worst never-ending conflicts of history. Not history, but in modern times, Israel-Palestine, Jews versus Arabs. And being a Palestinian living in Israel really is an exercise in Empathy.

Stay with us.

This episode is brought to you by Indeed. Stop waiting around for the perfect candidate. Instead, use Indeed Sponsored Jobs to find the right people with the right skills fast. It's a simple way to make sure your listing is the first candidate see. According to Indeed data, Sponsored Jobs have 4 times more applicants than non-sponsored jobs. So go build your dream team today with Indeed. Get a $75 sponsored job credit at indeed.com/podcast. Terms and conditions apply. We all have that dream trip we've been wishing we could go on, but too often life, or usually price, gets in the way. That's why Priceline is here to help you turn your dream trip into reality. With up to 60% off hotels and up to 50% 50% off flights, you can book everything you need for your next adventure. Don't just dream about that next trip, book it with Priceline. Download the Priceline app or visit priceline.com and book your next trip today.

Go to your happy price. Priceline.

What do you think when you look at geography, if you could double down or increase your following in any, if you wanted a bigger presence by geography, what would, what nation or or geography would you want to overinvest in right now?

Oh, that's a good question. Um, you know, Scott, this is what I don't like about the creator economy, is because humans are not equal. Viewers are not equal in this world. One view in America gives you 10x more ad revenue than, than one view in India. If you follow the money, every creator is just going to highlight American stories and American, American culture, but the Indian culture or the Sri Lankan culture has no content created about it because there's no ad revenue. So, we have 2% of Vietnam follows Nas Daily, like the country, because we have Nas Daily Vietnamese. 1% of the Arab world follows Nas Daily. 1% of the United States follows Nas Daily. So, we have between 1% to 4% of countries. I would probably want to index on where the CPM is high, unfortunately, because it's a business these days. So it has to be America or Sweden or Denmark or Scotland. Unfortunately, I cannot believe I gave you this answer, but that's, that's where the world is.

Yeah, that's the cruel truth of capitalism, right? One thing we found interesting about you is that you wear the same t-shirt every day, and that t-shirt reflects the percentage of your life that is likely already over as a reminder that life is finite and we should use time wisely. Um, this really resonated with me. I'm an atheist and find it motivating to know that this will all come to an end at some point, or that's motivating for me. But you're still a really young man. What brought you to that gestalt where you would wear a shirt every day showing how much time you have left?

You know, when I was a software engineer at Venmo, um, you know, I realized that I was 24 and I'm supposed to die at 76 according to Google, you know, average male life expectancy. 24 out of 76 is 32%. I was 32% dead. I was one-third done with my fucking life and I've done nothing yet. I just graduated college. And that made me realize that society expects you to spend one-third of your life just to be ready to be independent. And that's a crazy concept. And then to retire, you will be 85% done with life. When you think in time, in terms of percentages, time becomes a lot more precious. So the reason I follow— I wear the same t-shirt for the last 5 years. I have nothing else in my life. One, it simplifies my wardrobe and my travels, but two, it reminds me that every day you can create something, a video, a hire, a company. And I'm obsessed with maximizing my human potential.

How do you, but let's stop there. So let's press pause there. Maximizing, obsessed with maximizing your human potential. So we have a bit of a looking glass into how you're trying to do that professionally. How do you try and do that personally? What is the code you live by? What are the daily practices for maximizing your life personally?

So, you know, I'm from Israel and Palestine. So Scott, of course, I believe in extreme thought. 'Cause the Middle East is an extreme place. So I believe that you should leave planet Earth better than you found it. Therefore, hanging out at a beach in Mexico with friends is useless. Therefore, a life of toil and hard work is the most meaningful life one could live. So that's where I get my satisfaction 'cause I don't index for happiness. Happiness is actually a very temporary thing. I index for value creation. How much value can you create? So watching a Netflix movie does not create value in the world. It consumes value. So that's how I live my life. So I don't have many friends. I have a lot of connections. I only work. I don't have a wardrobe. I have the same t-shirt. I have a girlfriend, thank God, Thank God, or else I'd just be like a lonely prick. But you know, my life is very simple. I just work.

And you don't find it that occasional weekend on the beach or hanging out with friends and drinking or just— I've always thought that wasting time is fine as long as it's planned. You don't find you need that to make the time that you do work more productive? When I sit at home at night and hang out with my dogs and drink and watch Succession or Ted Lasso, I'd like to think that that makes me a more productive person when I'm working. You don't find that?

I do that only if there is a direct correlation to my business. So, if I watch something on TV, it has to be a documentary related to my life now. It cannot be science fiction. If I hang out with friends, they have to be people I can learn something from, like founders or investors or CEOs. If I hang out with people, they could be my team, build a team bond. So there should be no opportunity to do something that has no utility from it. I'm a utilitarian at heart.

Yeah, I think people are gonna recoil when they hear this, but I've found that if you wanna be successful, the prescription you're sort of outlining is kind of a, we don't like to admit this, but it's somewhat a prerequisite if you wanna be very successful. I mean, I would just describe what you're describing as real focus. You're trying to, cover more ground in a shorter amount of time than most people your age, which requires a tremendous amount of, um, of sacrifice and perspective. What about kids? Do you want to have a family?

You know, we're— we love creator economy. So the way I think about this is humans love to create. Humans love to create movies, music, interactions, and babies. Eventually, you know, I love to create a company. I love to create a video. I think eventually I would love to create a human. I think the chance of creating a human from scratch is incredibly exciting. Even the idea of a baby is like, is it possible to engineer? I know it's a very— I guess I'm being very controversial right now with my statements. I'm sorry. But can you create a human that stands for great ideals? That's a question I would like to answer. Yeah. By the way, do you feel like sometimes your upbringing shapes the rest of your life without realizing it?

I think you start to acknowledge that as you get older and you start to realize that your parents' divorce or your mom's irrational passion for your well-being or the culture you've referenced that you grew up in really molds the clay and you can shape it a little bit or manicure it around the edges. But if you want to believe in kind of nature nature or how important those formative years are in your DNA, just have 2 kids because they're just totally, you know, totally different. So I buy that you kind of, by the time you're 21 or 25, you're a little bit cooked, so to speak. It's sort of the basics are there. So I do believe that. Anyways, what are your thoughts on this?

So my thoughts on this is I spent my formative years in one of the worst never-ending conflicts of history, not history, but in modern times, Israel-Palestine, Jews versus Arabs. And being a Palestinian living in Israel really is an exercise in empathy, exercise in what it's like to be Israeli Jewish and what it's like to be Muslim Palestinian, and seeing that both are right in a sense. But when you see the senseless conflict, you kind of make it your life mission to work towards a world where there is no such conflict or where there is no such irrationality or wasted human capital. And so everything we do is about empowering the individual in the hopes that the individual that we empower can go and make the world better because we don't want another Israel-Palestine no matter what. So I think that is probably the one defining thing in my life that I would, um, that I'll spend the rest of my life thinking about.

And as— where do you live?

Um, I live where the future is going. The future is migrating east slowly but surely. So I have an office in Singapore and an office in Dubai and one office in Los Angeles. So we're between those three cities and countries around the world, but I think slowly Dubai and Singapore have a lot more human talent in the future and volume and just potential for growth. That's why we got to establish ourselves there today.

So, and I recognize you spend most of your time working, but try and break down, compare and contrast. Those are 3 really interesting places: Los Angeles, Dubai, and Singapore. If you can compare and contrast those 3 cities from a viewpoint of a young man, an entrepreneur, and somebody who, you know, wants just quality of life. How would you compare and contrast those three cities?

So, you know, I'd say Los Angeles— America in general has terrible infrastructure but has incredible human capital. That is the number one thing I'm jealous of. LA is the worst place to live, but it's the best place to befriend. Dubai has incredibly business-friendly resources. It's 0% taxation. It's unlimited visas and it's incredible quality of life, but they're still struggling on the human capital front. They need more Scott Galloways. Singapore is essentially, you know, it's, it's the best place to live in, in Asia, the most secure, the most safe. I think Singapore had a struggle over the last 2 years with COVID But I think they'll bounce back. Never underestimate a small island state that for them it's a life and death situation. I've come to realize that life is better under small governments. I think governments work really well at small scale. They start to mess up when they go big scale. So, Singapore government, fast, efficient. Dubai, fast, efficient.

It's interesting because most people with your background immediately go to kind of New York or San Francisco, distant third is sort of London, and those aren't on your list.

You know, when I started making my, my videos, I left New York, I left my H-1B, and I took a one-way flight to Kenya, Nairobi. That's where Nas Daily started. If you believe humans are equal, then you got to be everywhere where humans are. And I just feel like— I mean, I don't want to turn this about like West versus East, but it is. I think the West is incredibly talented, but I just feel like we're focusing too— we, we're too self-centered in San Francisco's problems and London's problems while the world is much bigger. So I fear that living in SF will make you less of a globalist. And that's the great irony of life is that the biggest technology companies in the world are based in the place that's probably not very sufficiently globalized.

Well, that's a big criticism is that the most powerful people in the world are incredibly insular and don't really have a feel for, a feel for the world. What was it like? You said you moved to Kenya. What was that like starting a company in Kenya?

No, I, well, I started the Nas Daily, uh, channel in Kenya. So I was there to purely to make content because there's, you know, uh, there's a lot of stories in Kenya that have never been told before. Uh, then Ethiopia, then Sri Lanka, then India. You know, actually my last advice to creators is this. You cannot be a discoverer anymore of physical land, but you can be a discoverer of stories around the world only if you take a flight out. So if you go to Papua New Guinea, if you make a video in Papua New Guinea about a person, you will be the first person in the world to create this piece of content in the history of humanity, right? A story of a Papua New Guinean business, for example. People are tired of hearing about the Eiffel Tower for the 50th time. We know it, we get it. What else is there?

Yeah, yeah. And you mentioned, uh, so we've got LA, Singapore, and Dubai. What would be number 4 for you? If you were going to move to another city, what would it be?

Uh, Israel.

Israel. Tel Aviv.

Yeah, never— and yeah, never underestimate countries that have life and death situations. Singapore and Israel.

Nuseir Yassin is the host of the Nas Daily vlog, which has grown to more than 40 million followers across Facebook, Instagram, YouTube, and TikTok. He's also the CEO of Nas Academy, an edtech company for creators. He joins us from somewhere in between Dubai, Singapore, and Los Angeles. Nas, stay safe.

Scott, thank you so much for having me, man. I really appreciate you giving me the microphone.

We'll be right back. Your vehicle doesn't just get you from here to there. It's a bridge to the people and places that matter most. It's how you show up for your family, your community, and everyone else that depends on you. That's why for 125 years, Firestone has been building tires with one thing in mind: to deliver products that are as reliable as you are. Firestone. Always Dependable. Since 1900.

Starting a business can seem like a daunting task unless you have a partner like Shopify. They have the tools you need to start and grow your business. From designing a website to marketing to selling and beyond, Shopify can help with everything you need. There's a reason millions of companies like Mattel, Heinz, and Allbirds continue to trust and use them. With Shopify on your side, turn your big business idea into— Sign up for your $1 per month trial at shopify.com/specialoffer.

Algebra of Happiness. I went to the Melting Pot last night, which is a place where they heat up pots full of cheese and chocolate and you dip different things in them. And your kids absolutely love it. And the adults basically order cocktails to get through this evening of melted cheese and weirdness. It's like kind of like Benihana, it's sort of an updated version of it, but we go to the Melting Pot a lot and my boys just absolutely love it. And one of the things I do is I tip a lot, or I shouldn't say I tip a lot, I tip big. And it's not because I'm a generous person. I'd like to think I'm a generous person, but one, I empathize with these folks. I think everyone, I'm just gonna try and get my kid who's 14 a job at Publix and I want him, or CVS, and I want him in a consumer-facing position. But I spent the majority of my college years and even high school years in consumer-facing positions, whether it was a box boy, a barback, then a bartender, then a waiter, then I was a pool boy. And the thing that just literally would change my life was the random kindness and generosity of strangers. I remember the woman from Bewitched, the woman who played the mother, used to come to the Mondrian Hotel with her friends for brunch. And every time she saw me after having a couple glasses of wine, she'd stick $10 in my shorts pocket. And, you know, when you're a 19-year-old at UCLA and you're eating Top Ramen and bananas, I literally one summer lived I lived off Top Ramen and bananas. My crew coach told me I needed to gain weight. I had no money, Top Ramen and bananas. I read somewhere and anyways, a lot of that. $10, $20, $50 makes a big difference in people's lives. And it just feels great to do this, especially when you recognize the kind of impact, the easy impact. So many of us wanna help other people. So many of us wanna do nice things for other people. And I think it's just an easy, an easier way or pretty low calorie burn way to help people out. And it makes me feel important, it makes me feel masculine, it makes me feel successful. And my advice is the following, is that if you are one of the people, and there's a lot of us who have not only endured this pandemic, but have actually thrived financially, that the universe is asking something of you. And that is to be ridiculously generous with strangers, ridiculously generous with your employees. If you're in a position to decide people's compensation, and your company's doing well, or you're an entrepreneur and you've done well, don't digress to the capitalist bullshit argument of labor supply and demand and think of it as a game as I did as a younger man. Look, I wanna pay them just enough so they're happy, so they don't leave, so I can, and my firm can be more profitable, or I can make more money. I'm just embarrassed by the way I behaved as a younger manager. I wasn't not generous, but if you're in a position of financial strength these holidays, for God's sakes, be a baller, be a fucking baller, make people's days, tell your employees that you're committed to their financial success, not with words, but with Benjamins. When the FedEx guy or the single mom bringing you your pot of cheese that's gonna melt, be a baller boss, be a baller, look at your life Look at your life. Are you in a position to change people's lives that day? It is so rewarding. It's never been more important. So many people are struggling. Just a little bit of extra cabbage can make such a difference in people's lives. And it feels just fucking wonderful. Our producers are Caroline Chagrin and Drew Burrows. Claire Miller is our assistant producer. If you like what you heard, please follow, download, and subscribe. Thank you for listening to the podcast. This is Prabhupada from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you next week on Monday and Thursday.

This podcast is brought to you by Carvana. Selling your car should feel like one less thing on your list, not one more. With Carvana, it is. Just go to carvana.com, enter your license plate or VIN, and get a real offer down to the penny. No back and forth, no surprises, just an experience you can trust. Like your offer? Accept it, schedule pickup, and we'll come to you with a check in hand. Your car, your timeline, your terms. Visit carvana.com to sell your car today.

Carvana.

Pickup fees may apply. Ready to transform your career in real time from where you are? Brown University's flexible online master's programs will help expand your business influence and your network in just 16 months. Choose from management, business analytics, or organizational leadership programs that will prepare you for today's most pressing business challenges. Without putting your life on hold. Scholarships available. Tap to learn more.