469: Pain Addiction is Real: How Your Brain Keeps You Stuck and What Will Set You Free with Scotty Scheller

I never knew this Scotty. I don't know if you did too. He said pain becomes an addiction for people. He said pain is as powerful as an addiction, like a drug would be. Welcome to Midlife Conversations. I'm your host, Natalie Jill, and I'm passionate about having amazing conversations that matter to us midlife women. On this podcast, I do what I do best, taking complicated health topics and breaking them down simply so that we can optimize aging together. I share actionable steps to help you thrive in what I believe are our best years to come. Join me as I interview the most inspiring people living their best midlife years and dive into essential topics like hormone changes, health optimization, weight management, blood sugar, emotional well being, relationships, beauty, and so much more. Pain, when it hits us can be all consuming. So much so it can literally change your personality if you are dealing with chronic pain or even new pain from an injury. I have firsthand experience with this recently, more so than ever. I've navigated pain on and off pretty much my whole life with the amount of injuries I've had and setbacks. But going through this disc replacement surgery challenged me to a whole new level, giving me an experience that I was not fully prepared for. Now, my surgeon did warn me, but I don't think I fully understand what nerve pain was or the muscle spasm from adding a disc to my back would create with me. And what I noticed over the last few weeks was how I was starting to become really truly a shell of myself. And I want to share a little bit about that and kind of what I figured out on the other of this because I'm now almost gosh, by the time you're listening to this, I'm three weeks post surgery exactly today when I'm airing this and a lot has changed for me with what I figured out and I'm bringing my friend on here, Scotty Scheller, who we're going to I'm going to introduce in just a second. And the reason I'm bringing him on is something you all might not know about me is in addition to midlife conversations and being a fat loss expert and what you see me public facing doing, I am also a social selling strategist. Now I don't really market that online. I don't really talk a lot about that, but that is a whole nother world of mine where I work with clients on social selling and it's been really fun for me and I've met Scotty in that field. He is one of the go to experts when it comes to social selling. He's an incredible marketer, sales guy, and he's my friend, and he's super creative. And we had jointly just traveled together to San Diego to help a shared client with a fun project. And Scotty got a full deep dive into Natalie's brain and personality and misery the last few days. So I thought, this is a perfect conversation. In addition to that, Scotty himself was actually paralyzed years ago, dealing with an incredible amount of pain. And when I shared him with him, the breakthrough that I figured out while we were traveling together, it was very familiar to him. So thank you, Scotty, for jumping on. I literally texted him five minutes ago, and I said, can you do this with me? Thank you for doing that.

I'm here.

That's my friend's goal.

Of course. That's what we're here for, baby.

Can you, Scotty, share a little bit about your story? I know you've kind of told me in past, and it's not something you talk a lot about, but I know you were a hockey player and what happened?

Yeah, so, I mean, my entire life was like, it was hockey. I was an athlete, you know, and I grew up very competitive, and that was. That was where my career was going to go. You know, I was. I wanted to be a professional athlete. That's where my mindset was. That was. That was my identity. I was, Scotty, I'm going to be a hockey player. That's it. And, you know, as you're growing up, people don't realize how hard it is to be a professional, you know, and so you have to kind of give it your all and you commit everything. And in order to commit to something, I really believe you have to change your identity into that person. And when you change into that person, that's all you know. And so, you know, what happened to me, long story short, is I was well on my way playing hockey, enjoying my life. That was my career. That was my path. I was so committed to it. And I ended up getting put into the boards, if anybody knows hockey. I got put into the boards, and a stick came up and it went across my neck. And basically that punched in and lights out, broke my neck. And that was the end of my hockey career. Like, that. It just. It. Everything. Within 30 seconds, life stopped. And what was weird is it broke. But then I stood up and I was like, okay. Like, there was a little crack, and I had, like, this weird sensation all through my body where it just tingles, and I was like, this doesn't feel right. But let's see what happens. So I skated back to the bench and blacked out, and that was all I remember. And when I woke up the next day, or when I woke up the next, it was kind of like, all right, something's not right. I didn't remember anything. I didn't know where I was. I didn't know anything. And I was back at home. And basically, I had gone through that entire rest of the day, the rest of the night, and I had lived. And just everybody thought I was normal. Of course, I had a concussion protocol and all that stuff. But I woke up, and I did remember a thing, and I still don't remember that night. And they were like, yeah, you came off the ice. You were fine. Like, all this stuff. Like, we under concussion protocol. We got you off. It was the end of your shift, and we were done. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, whatever. And it was weird because after that, I was. I just had this weird sensation where I just. I could not move, like, in certain directions. And things were, like, really slow to me. So it's like you'd throw a ball to me, and you throw it, and it hit me, and then I'd react to it.

And so that delayed response we've talked about, like, the delay. The brain delay.

Exactly. Or, like, I'd be, like, wanting to say something, and I'd think about the thought, and then 30 seconds later, that's when it would talk. So, like, somebody else would be talking or the conversation be going, and all of a sudden, I'd interrupt them because it just caught up.

Yeah.

And I was like, am I having a stroke? Like, I didn't really know what was going on. But, you know, I'm also a hockey player. I'm an athlete. If I say I'm hurt or I'm sick, I'm done.

Yeah.

And so I was like, I'm just gonna keep playing. And I went to a team. Like, one of the team doctors, and he was like, hey, you know, like, maybe you should go to a chiropractor, see how your neck's looking. Let's get some X rays and see what's going on. Went to a chiropractor. Just kind of out of the blue was like, I'm just gonna pick a chiropractor. He did no X rays at all. He was like, oh, yeah. It's probably just, like, something with your nerves in your neck. Let me snap it. We'll get back into it. We'll get back into order. And he cracked my neck. And lights out.

Whoa.

And it was like, literally my entire life stopped at that moment.

Oh, my God.

Because it was, like, digestion shut down, movement shut down. Couldn't see, couldn't move. Couldn't. Could not do anything.

Like, at the chiropractor. On the table.

Yeah, on the table. And, like. And it all came back to me a little bit, and I was able to kind of, like, get up, but it was almost like. I don't know if you ever, like, hit your head really hard and got into getting that, like, concussed, but, like, it was that ringing, and you have to, like, come back into your body. And so I got home and I went to sleep, and I woke up the next morning, and I couldn't move. Like, there was just. There was nothing. Like, it was just like you. And the way to describe it to people is it's kind of like you open your eyes and you expect to be doing all of this. Like, it's. We take this for granted where it's like your hands are just moving and you're talking and you're moving around and you're breathing and all that stuff, and then you open your eyes and nothing happens.

Oh, my gosh.

And it's like, you're looking around, and you're kind of like, all right, like, maybe I should get up. Nothing.

Were you by yourself?

Yeah. Yeah, I was just laying in my bed just like. But luckily, I was. I was there with my parents. Luckily, I was just at their house. And my mom was like, hey, like, you got hit the other day, like, all this stuff. My dad was like, yeah, he got hit. We don't really know what's going on. I was able to kind of, like, get to myself. So it was really weird how it. Like, it would come on and it would go away. So I'd be like, paralyzed back. Paralyzed back. And I was just kind of like.

Is that a common thing when someone's.

It's. It's not common, but it was because, like, basically there was a separation of my neck, and it was pinching one of the nerves. And so every time I'd move, like, if I moved in a certain way, everything would stop and it'd lock up, and then I'd be done.

But you didn't know, like, what. The way you were. You couldn't control it.

Couldn't control it. And it was just. It was the weirdest thing. And then we went to the doctor, and he was like, they do X rays, and they're like, yeah, there's nothing wrong with You. And I was like, there's nothing wrong with me. Okay. Like, what about all these symptoms and all this stuff? And he's like, well, I mean, we don't see anything. Like, we'll check your blood work. We'll do all this stuff. And we did all this stuff. And then they're like, yeah, go home. And then at this point, it's like, okay, I'm. I'm fine again. Like, I feel good. And then I'd go a couple days, and I'd move a certain way and then back into complete paralysis. Like, just.

Oh, my gosh.

And it was like, what the hell is happening here? And I did tell my parents because I was like, you know, I'm scared that, like, they're gonna sideline me. And it got to the point, like, it was like, two or three weeks and of just constant that. Like, I'd be walking or I'd be in my car and I'd black out.

So you weren't. Clearly, you couldn't drive yourself.

Yeah, I couldn't drive myself. No. And, like. And so now I'm to the point where digestion is shutting down. Like, eyesight is just killer. Like, my hormones are out of whack. Like, everything in my life just started to, like, crumble.

Yeah.

And I was like, okay, I need help here. And so I went to the doctor again. I was like, hey, man. Like, we need to look at this thing and see what's going on. Once again. They did all the blood work, they did all the X rays, and they're like, there's literally nothing wrong with you. And I'm looking at these guys. I'm like, guys, there's gotta be something here. And, you know, this went on like, it was. And this went to the point where I couldn't go out. I couldn't eat, I couldn't walk. I couldn't. Like, my entire life was like, lay in my bed, need help to get out of bed, get to the bathroom maybe, and then go back down, lay down, sleep for the rest of the day. Like. And this was, like, going all over the place. My parents, like, God loved my parents for sticking by me through this, because it was like I had to move back in with them. You know, I had. They had to, like, drive me around. They were flying with me to different doctors. We were going everywhere. We were seeing every expert. We were doing this, we were doing that. And it's like, everybody's telling you, either there's nothing wrong or we're just gonna dope you up to Shut you up, right? You know, and so I'm on 50 different medications.

Were you in pain on top of this too? Tell me.

Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. It's like, you know, like the pain that comes. Like what people don't realize is your neck and your spinal cord are literally the highway to your body. So anything that happens there, it's the wild west, you know, you have no idea what's going to happen. And so, like, one day I wake up and like my entire arm would feel like it was on fire.

You know, that's what, that's what that, that nerve pain, that's what I was experiencing. It's like a burning.

It's like, yeah, it's like on fire. It's like people don't understand. It's like the easiest way I can describe it to somebody is if you've ever like leaned up against, like when there's, let's say like a glass fireplace and you like kind of lean into and you're like, ow. And like it hits you for a second. It's like that but constant. And you can't get rid of it. It's just there. And you're like, it's agonizing. And that would just keep happening and then it'd go away and it'd come back and go away and come back. And then it got to the point where I literally just could not feed myself. I could not go. I couldn't go to the bathroom by myself. I couldn't get up by myself. You know, I like, my life was over. And this went on for four and a half, five years, you know, like, couldn't have a job like it was.

And then your whole dream, like your whole dream was hockey player. Like this is. And now it's done, it's over.

And that's. And that's the identity piece that we'll get to in a couple minutes where it was like my entire identity crumbled and now I'm worthless, you know, and that's where a lot of people get. And it was just like, what the hell? And so after that, like four year period, it will kind of like push forward a little bit of this. Just every single day I'm going to everybody. Like, now my hormones are a wreck. They go and they check my blood work and they're like, hey, like, yeah, your testosterone's 86. And if you know testosterone, you range, like a normal range, which is not a normal range, is 208 to like 1200 at my age for men.

Yeah.

And I'm At. Yeah. And I'm at 86, so I'm, like, living as an elderly dead person, and in my body, and it's like, I have no muscle mass. I'm losing strength. I can't think. Like, it's. I literally felt like I was just like a dead fish in a barrel. Like, it just. It. Yeah, I was just there. Like, I just existed.

Did you want to die?

Oh, of course. I mean, well, that's the thing is, like, I got to the point it was, like, five and a half years in, and I was like, you know, there was just something in the back of my head that was like, it's. It's time to go. You know, I was. I got to that lowest of low points, and it's a. It's a blessing now that I look back on it. But in that moment, it was like, I'm done. Like, I'm already dead. Like, I was dead. I was just here. I was. I was like. I wouldn't even call what I was doing existing. It was just here. And I basically said, you know, you got six months. I gave myself six months. I was like, you know, six months. If this isn't better, just cap it. Like, just. We got to find a way out. And I had. I had my plan. You know, I don't tell anybody this. I had my plan. I had my notes written out. I was like, this is it. Like, I. I'm okay with checking out. I'm done. And there was this small, little voice in the back of my head. I know it's God now. I'm a very Christian. And this is what kind of brought me to Christianity, where it was like. It just said six months. It just kept saying six months. I committed to six months. And, like, in the back of my head, I just kept hearing six months. And I was like, okay, well, what would I do if I could make myself better? What would that look like? And I started shifting my identity around. Now you're a healer now. You. You are in charge of this. Nobody's coming for you. No one's coming to help you. Obviously. It's been six years, and nothing's better. You can figure this out. If you're gonna figure it out, it's gonna be you. And so I ordered every textbook on the human body. I basically brought myself back to college. I'm in hospital beds. I'm laying in my bed. There's nothing to do.

Yeah.

So might as well learn. And I just started listening to podcasts, learning things, listening to, like, some of your friends. Like, Josh. Dr. Josh Axe, like, all of these guys. And trying to put pieces together, like, oh, this is my symptom. Let's try this. Oh, this supplement might help. I'm gonna try this. And just making myself a science experiment. And I realized, like, over the next, like, four months, I was getting myself better by the movements that I was learning by doing different kinds of yoga, by different kinds of stretching, by different kinds of decompression, by, like, little things.

And your focus had Change. Change. Your focus had gone from depressed. Sorry for yourself. This sucks. I. I don't like my life to. I have a focus and a purpose.

Exactly. And I was reading a book on. I. I gotta find the book. But it's all about the power of the human mind. And I read what there was one chapter in there, and it was talking about how 90% of people who are stuck in hospitals are stuck there because they keep getting told that they're sick, they're hurt, they're depressed, they're this, they're that. And so the power of your mind picks up on these little things when somebody's telling you you are something. And it's so logical because when you think back to, like, as children, when you tell a kid that he's not capable of doing something, he's probably not going to be able to do it in life. But the parents who constantly reinforce their children growing up and constantly put it on that, like, you are going to be great. You are great. You are this, you are that, and really start burning that into their mind. Those kids grow up to be superstars. And I was like. It clicked. And I was like, okay, so maybe a lot of this isn't the fact that I'm still hurt, isn't the fact that I'm still sick. Maybe a lot of, like, I've got myself back to 40. Maybe the rest of it's all mindset. And so I shifted that, and I was like, okay, well, how am I going to live every single day now if I want that to happen? And it was every single morning, reinforcing thoughts. Hey, like, you know, you're feeling great today, man. Like, this is a great day. Like, I would remember back to how it felt to feel good, and I would be like, oh, like, just another day, you know, God's great. I'm awake. Even if. Even if I'm in a hospital bed, I'm so blessed to be here, you know? And I started thinking, like, you know, if you walk outside, you get hit by a car, you know, that's kind of a bad thing, you know, but you've got two ways to look at it. It's either you got hit by the car and, well, thank God it hit me hard enough to kill me and I don't have to be in pain anymore, or thank God it hit me, I'm still alive. That means I got another. I get another shot at this.

So.

And go for it.

So, Scotty, you and I have similar personalities. And I'm going to talk about DNA in a minute because I had a really full circle epiphany around this in a moment. I bet we're kind of wired the same way, But I'm a very fast processor. Like, I can process information fast, as do you when you have a focus on something. And even though my journey with pain is very different than yours, I didn't have that specific type of injury. But in the last. As somebody who feels like she's dealt with pain for many, many years, in the last two weeks or last three weeks, because it's now three weeks now. But in the two weeks post disc replacement surgery, when I was not prepared for that kind of crazy nerve pain, like cr. Like constant fire, like you described, like, that fire waking me up at night. It felt like stabbing and fire. Like just. And even though it was clearly not the length of time yours was, I had those same kind of dark thoughts, like, how. What am I going to even do? How am I going to work? Like, how am I going to be? How am I going to live like this? Like, and my brain went to some serious dark places. And you witnessed that. Like, you saw. I kept telling you, I said, I feel like a shell of myself.

Oh, no, you changed. You changed big time. And it was concerning to me as like. Like, not only the fact that I see you every day almost, but it was like it was watching a friend. Because also you're so tough in the way that you didn't want to say exactly what was going on.

Yeah.

You know, but. Yeah, but it was. It was written all over you that you were, like, suffering because there was a lot of questions that were coming out. It was a lot of, like, hey, I just don't feel like myself right now. Like, I think you said that a.

Hundred times and I really didn't. I literally, I think I had like two. Well, you saw it because you were around me. And then I. My husband, my poor husband, like, here all day long. I have only two friends that I would talk to and I. And I even. I would, like, apologize leaving them messages, and I avoided Pretty much everybody else. Because that pain felt all consuming. And the personality struggle that you just mentioned, I was having that too. Like, okay, here I am this person that's supposed to empower others. And I've always lived by excuses or solutions. And I've always said, let's look into possibility, not problem. Let's look into. And I know that information. And I could not get myself there. And by the way, those of you listening, I'm going to explain exactly what happened to shift it in a minute here. But I could not get myself to that place. It was like, I knew logically, but I'm like, what, what? I'm in too much pain.

And when you. Yours, like, expand a very long time, like you said, it was many years till you got to that place. So I don't know, like, when you. What were your thoughts around pain? When that was happening, Like, I started to feel like, okay, that's just. There's a divide in people. And people that have chronic pain, like, they're just. It's like this. It's their life now.

It was. It was a real big eye opener for me. When people, because I think when we hear pain and we hear somebody say that they're in chronic pain, you kind of immediately go like. You think of like, the mildest pain that you've ever felt. You're kind of like, oh, I stubbed my toe. You know, you're like, you think about that. But when there's different levels of pain, like, and there's a difference between pain in a moment and ongoing pain where it's like you're living in it every day. So for those listening, it's like, think about the stubbing your toe example. But that pain just sticks there for days and days and days, and it just doesn't go away. So you're constantly hobbling on it and you start to go down. This, is this my life now? Like, is this going to be every single day? Is this going. Is this like. And all you can do is think about it. And the more that you think about it, the worse it gets. The worst. Hyper focusing on it.

And I was. And I'm hyper focused on trying to fix it. And it's like, not all I could think about was the pain. So kind of in desperation, I mean, obviously I was with Scotty traveling, so he. He knew somebody. He kept checking on me and I was like, alone a lot of the time in like, I was like, I just need to be alone. But I reached out at one point. I was just so down I know that. I think the first night we got to San Diego, I could not sleep. I woke up in pain. I just want. I needed to get up in pace. And I. I was just so upset. And I reached out to my friend Michael Bernoff, and I said, I need, like, an emergency session with you. Like, I need help. And he happened to be traveling. He, like, could not, like, do that right then. So I was kind of in desperation, so I called my friend Cash. I'm gonna read you guys this little transcript for a minute, and I'm gonna. And Scotty, you didn't hear this exact. Did I send you the voice notes? Scotty? I don't even know.

I heard a little bit of it, but I didn't hear the entire thing.

I think you have a similar personality to me. So this is where. So Cash is my friend that he's an expert when it comes to DNA. And here I'm like, you know, I'm driving my neurosurgeon nuts. Like, I'm texting him, like, ten times a day. Like, is this normal? What's going on? Why do I feel he's being so patient with me? You know, I'm sure Brooks was tired of hearing about it, but I left Cat, his name is Cash, and I left him a message and I said, I'm kind of desperate now. Like, I don't. I've never felt like this. I'm in, like, a super dark place. I thought I experienced depression before, and I did. When my daughter was born years ago, this was like something I'm like, this is. I'm having weird thoughts, like, I don't wanna live. Like, that's the kind of brain stuff I was thinking, like, maybe I shouldn't wanna live like that. I've never had that kind of, like, weird thing. I was like, my life's over. I'm gonna be. I can't live in this chronic pain. So I left him this whole message and I said, I don't know what's wrong with me, but knowing what you know about my DNA, what am I missing here? And I just wanna read you a transcript from the voice note he sent me. Cause this is wild. He said, natalie, your brain. Why do I say that? Because this is a typical story of a high performance person where you're wired for success. You're wired for high performance. You're wired to push. You're wired essentially to burn out. You're wired that way. Your brain is so powerful and so reward seeking, so analytical and so anal about every detail that drives you forward in what we call a high functioning anxiety. That not only is high functioning anxiety affecting your nerves from stress, but it also affects your choices and your culture and your structure and your schedule. And people that tend to get injured and experience a lot of pain. You're willing to do more than your body can handle. And so he said a couple of things. It puts your body through hell, which can create injury, which most people would say, I'm not willing to do that. I'm not willing to push that hard. I'm not ready to really wanting to do that extra rep or that extra thing, that extra level of weight that most people would say, no, that's too much. You're going to say, I'm going to do it anyway. And he said, third, there's a bit of a lack of recovery because there's also that burnout state of being in fight or flight. And fight or flight is a state where recovery will not happen. And that was wild to me. That was one big connection. And then I want to share this part. He said, when you're in that state, your body doesn't want to recover. So this is where this is ignored and around the nervous system. Now this is where it really got my attention. Cause your nervous system is fully attached to your spine, your brain, it's all wired together. And he said, and a lot of times women who are wired this way especially, they're gaslit all the time. And people tell them anxiety is normal. And no, the context today is so much more than what the nervous system can handle. So he said, and then on top of that, you're talking about me. You're genetically wired to fight through it. You're going to burn out. It's just not common not to. And he said, so everything can look great on the outside with people. And that's. He said, that's why you look at a successful healthy person and all of a sudden they have a massive heart attack or they all of a sudden close down their whole business and become like a Buddhist monk. He said, that's why you're wired that in your DNA. So of course he leaves me this message. I start thinking. And I said, well, what's the answer to that? You know, like, what's the answer? And he said, this is really important because you're the way that you're. And this goes back to the way you're wired. And everyone's wired very uniquely different. If when you look at your DNA, he said, the only thing that will get you out of pain and I Never knew this, Scotty. I don't know if you did, too. He said, pain becomes an addiction for people. He said, pain is as powerful as an addiction, like a drug would be. So it's almost like you will navigate towards feeling and concentrating on the pain rather than face your own emotions and thoughts and fears. Which when he said that, I was like, what? That doesn't even. I've heard people say that before about emotion and pain. I didn't understand it, but something clicked for me in that moment where I heard him. And when I said, what do you do about it? He said, you have to get yourself out of sympathetic state into parasympathetic, more that calm, meditative state. It is the only way that your body will stop feeling pain. And I was like, I. And it landed. The way he explained that landed. I don't know. And that's kind of what you just summed up. You sort of figured out with yours even 100%.

And it's. It's literally finding the place that takes you out. The way that I like, the way that I heard it, it was take yourself out of your body and take yourself out of your mind and look at yourself from an outside picture and then allow your body to rest while you're watching it, you know, and so just completely taking yourself out of yourself. So it's exactly what he explained.

And when I, you know, when I asked him how, of course, he goes right into things I don't like to do, like meditate. And I was like, I don't do that. But here was the caveat. I heard his message. I was supposed to go on stage in literally three hours to speak where you are. So I'm like, what am I? Okay? I'm in so much pain. I'm like, I have this whole story. I'm like, focus on the pain. Focus on the pain. Focus on the pain. So I turned on. I started scrolling TikTok, and I saw somebody posting about 8D music. Which 8D music is. How do you pronounce it? By narrative? Lateral beats. What's it called when it's like. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's where you.

You basically wear headphones and the sound is different from each ear. So I put that on, and they have it to all kinds of music. You just can go on Spotify or itunes and look for it. I know Scotty uses brown noise. We'll talk about that in a second. But I put it on, and I just started listening for about five minutes. And the next thing you know, it gave me that Feeling of almost when you're. I mean, I hate to sound those of you, if you've ever done thc, it's like you get that feeling of, like, out of body a little bit. It started kind of going there where I could really hear the music and I was present. And next thing you know, I'm kind of, like moving to the music, and I just started feeling a little different. And I listened to this music for, like, two hours. And as that was happening, I started to, like, free myself a little bit from my body. That's the only way I can explain it. And I became more present. And from that space, I was like, what is it that I want? And I was like, I want to feel this way. I want to be not regretful of the surgery. I want to be happy. And honestly, it, like, shifted me. And all of a sudden the pain was like this. It was still there if I focused on it, but it was, like, not taking over my brain as much. It was weird. I had never experienced that before.

And it just kind of makes sense, though. I mean, because, like, you're identifying with something in that moment where you're constantly feeling it. And you're gonna hear me say identity a lot, because I truly believe in that. And it's like even identifying on something for a moment, it's your identity. You've picked it up, it's there. And so it was the same with me. You know, the more that I focus on something, the worse it would get. And then also there would be other things that would pop up. So it's the same thing as, like I always say, when you focus on something hard enough, it's going to happen for you. And so when you're focusing on, like, think about the easiest one. It's like when you feel like you're going to throw up, a lot of times you just keep thinking you're going to throw up until the point you just throw up. Most of the time, you're not going to throw up. You just think about it so much that you make yourself sick.

Totally.

You know, so you're constantly thinking about these things, and you're going to drive these symptoms up, and then you become hyper aware, which is the worst thing you can do in that.

And that's the word. Those are the words. Hyper aware.

Yep. Yeah. Because then everything becomes so focused on that. So you could have, like, maybe your elbows hurting, but then all of a sudden your ear itches. You're like, God, like, why is my ear itching now? And now you're Focused on your ear itching. And you're like, okay, this is another symptom. And then it's a symptom after a symptom. And you're just noticing normal part normal patterns in your body, but they're all symptoms. But now they become so polarized that now you're feeling everything in your body, and now you have no time to relax into it because all you're doing is just focusing on everything that's happening when you shouldn't even be focusing on your breath. No, you're totally right.

And that's. And. And I'll tell you when you're like, and I. I was guilty of all these things. So when I was experiencing that kind of pain, not only did I go on social media and do a reel and be like, okay, I'm explaining have this excruciating pain. What do you guys know for it? I'm now, like attracting comments about it. Right then I reached out to a friend and I'm like, what did you do post this surgery? Did you have to. Did you feel this nerve pain? And he said, oh, in this Facebook group a lot. So I joined a stupid Facebook group, which don't do that. Because all I could find was people in chronic pain having nerve damage, regretting their disc replacement. So I went. It just kept getting me worse. I was like, so focused on, this is horrible. This is horrible. So once I had this shift, which sounds weird, like, I know some people are going to resonate, some people are going to be turned off to this, but, like, once I had that shift, I've been playing with it the last two days. Like, I feel great. I honestly feel great. But I'll have like this body check in. Like, is that pain still there? And I'm like, if I think about it, it is it. I can feel it. But I Then I'm shifting myself out of it. So it's really wild. And it's also. It's come full circle for me because I literally teach mindset. I teach this for fat loss. I teach this for everything. But I had to, like, walk through this deep here to go, wow, this really is something. And then on our flight back, Scotty, I was listening to like neuroscience. Like, I really had never doven into any neuroscience before. And I crazy. It's wild. Like the amount of people that have literally healed or gotten themselves out of chronic pain back to life, fix their bodies from rewiring their brain, which is kind of like what hypnosis is. It's what any of that is.

That's 100% right. It's. Yeah, it's weird because they, A lot of people will like turn their cheek at it or like say it's like woo woo or it's like it's false and stuff like that. But it's the, it's the entire reason why those. Like there's some. There's so many stories of people who like got diagnosed with cancer and decided to officially live their life and started having fun and started traveling and doing everything that they've ever wanted to do and just let go of all of the expectations and just started living with no, just I'm dead in five months. Might as well just have fun. And all their attention went to having fun. And then they go back and the cancer's gone.

It's wild.

And it's like, why did it happen? And you can. And I say it's miracle. Absolutely. Yeah. But it's also like you completely shifted your identity. You completely shifted your thought process. Now I'm not saying you're gonna go out and cure cancer. We're not gonna say that. But there is so much power that's in our brain that people don't even realize. Like people don't, like people don't think about it. It's like you have so much control over your mindset, which is going to dictate your health, which is going to dictate the outcomes that you have in life. And all it's, it's literally just starts with how you see things and how you visualize them and how you bring yourself back to present. And you know, there's. There's two kinds of people in the world and normally you want to be the third one. You either live in depression or you live in anxiety. If you live in depression, you live in the past. If you live in anxiety, you're living in the future. It's hard to find the person who lives in the center, but once you find that person, it's like that's the person you need to live in every single day. It's like, okay, how am I feeling? Check in on it. Can I do anything about the pain? Probably not. Well, I'm going to focus on something else. Easier said than done. But once you start training yourself to do it, it just happens.

Here's another interesting thing I just connected to in the last few days about DNA and pain and where our brain goes. So based on my DNA and yours is probably like this too, Scotty. Because we have similar personalities. I am very driven with serotonin and dopamine like those really. And I have to be very aware of any kind of supplement or anything that's going to affect those because it will throw me off if something depletes serotonin. Like, you and I were talking when you were in pain medicines years ago. You said oxycodone deplete. You were depressed on it. It depleted your. Your serotonin, which it does. It gives you a false sense of euphoria. Then it wears off and it depletes it. I was on a. For two weeks. One of the things they automatically do when you have a disc replacement is you have to go on Celebrex for a few weeks. And the reason some people keep it on for a few months, the reason is Celebrex is known to inhibit bone growth, which is not normally a good thing, but it is a good thing when you have a disc replacement because you do not want it to fuse together. So for the first two weeks especially, you are supposed to be on Celebrex. So I was taking Celebrex, like, not something I would normally take, but I was listening and it was a high dose. And what I now realize after talking to Cash and reviewing my DNA again, that I cannot. Any medication that affects. That is going to affect me really negatively. So what I learned, and you guys can look it up, I happen to be one of those 1%. 1% of people on Celebrex actually get suicidal thoughts, depression. So here I'm. I'm like, in the pain, focusing on the pain, joining Facebook groups, the wrong path, and taking something that is completely depleting my serotonin and dopamine. So it's like. It was so, like, wild, like, it's just a lot of coming together for me around mindset and just our DNA and how important it's like, know both of these, like, to be aware of all this.

Just. It's even crazier is like. Is watching it from the outside in, like, just knowing you and like seeing the person that went into the hospital to have it done and then seeing the person that came out and, like, was in pain and all these things. It was like it was two completely different people. It was like it was Natalie, but, like, she had. She was putting a face on, you know, and it was like. It was this really weird, like. And it was. As a friend, it was kind of like. And it might have been different if I. If I hadn't gone through it myself where I was like, okay, I kind of. I kind of understand what's happening. But it was also this moment of, like, she's not working out. She's not doing these things. She's not doing the things that she loves to do. And what scared me is all of that love and that passion that went into all these things was gone. And so.

Which is wild because I worked out for years with pain. Like, I got on with my life. Years of pain. It was just. This was like, consuming me. This whole. This whole.

It was just. It was. It was just scary because it was like there was nothing that was bringing you joy. And like, we didn't really know. It was the medication. It was like, what the hell?

It was a comment. It was my focus and that medication, like, so once I shift my focus, I started feeling better. And then I threw away the rest of the salad breaks. I was like, I am not taking this again. And I told my neurosurgeon, I said, I. And he's like, wow, that's like a very small, rare side effect. But yes, but that's how I'm wired. So knowing that, like, I will never touch it again. And it just. It's just. But also, it just. Really powerful lesson to me about our mind and how much that's just. Because literally, like, as I'm talking to you, I can check it on my body and I feel pain. Like, I feel. Feel soreness from where they put it, all of it. My abs, where they cut for. To put the disc in. I feel it in my leg. Like, if I check in. But I'm not focused on it. And it made a big difference. I mentioned earlier. I mentioned 8D music. Can you just say what brown noises? Because I know you keep telling me you're like, I need to force you to listen to brown noise. For people listening.

Yeah. So you. Everybody's heard of different colored noises. The one that most people know is white noise. And it's like, go to sleep. Put on white noise. It helps you fall asleep. There's different frequencies of noise, and it's brown noise, pink noise, gray noise, whatever you want. I really have fallen in love with brown noise because what brown noise does for me and for many people and especially if you can't sleep, you should give it a shot. Is it basically tones out all of the other thoughts that are coming in, allowing you to focus on whatever's in front of you. So especially with somebody who has an ADHD mind like mine, where there's thousands of things happening if I need to just focus on something, like, I use it a lot for sleep, where I'm like, okay, I need to sleep. I'll throw on brown noise. And all I'm focused on is relaxation. And all I focus on is relaxation. I fall asleep because there's nothing else there. And I noticed over the weekend, oh, super quick. It just, it like I. Even over the weekend, while we were in Cali, it's like I didn't have like, my Alexa with me where I just say, hey, Alexa, play brown noise. And so I was trying to fall asleep. I was like, why can't I fall asleep? And I was trying to figure it out, and I was like, it was like midnight one, and I was like, I just can't get, like, relaxed. And I was like, I don't have my brown noise on it. So I threw my phone on, I was like, hey, you know, going on YouTube, just typed in brown noise for 12 hours, threw it on, and lights out. It was like, immediate.

Yeah, it's.

It's incredible because it just. It just turns everything off. And so, you know, gray noise and like, white noise are the sounds of, like, fans. Brown noise is almost like that humming that you get on an airplane.

Yeah.

And so those people who kind of like, you find that relaxation when you're on an airplane and you kind of like, calm down a little bit, where it's like, if you're not scared of flying, obviously. But once you kind of like get in that zone and it's kind of like that humming that kind of like, gets you like, oh, that's brown noise. And so if you just want to live in that and you want to focus and you want to, like, come back in and like, really meditate on something. But you have a. Where. Because a lot of people have trouble meditating. Because, like, I have so many thoughts. It's like throwing some brown noise and just sit there with it and just let the thoughts go and they'll. You will be so shocked after about two to three minutes, your mind will literally just be hyper focused on that one thing in front of you.

What? I want to. I want to kind of come back to your story for a minute because I don't want to leave people hanging here. Like, did they ever figure out, like, how to stop that? Or was that literally because you shifted your focus? Like, what. What happened? Like, and do you ever still fear that that could happen again?

100%. And I think you're always going to have that fear. The thing that happened with me, though, is like, they went in and they finally saw that there was a. Like, they saw that there was a Pressure fracture and a massive crack. And they're like, we don't know how we missed this, because it was, like, bulging.

Like, on your mind.

Like, in my neck. Yeah. And it was like, we don't know how we missed this. And it was like, one guy who's like, I don't know how they missed this, because it's like. It was blatantly obvious. Like, most people have, like, a nice curve in their spine. And mine was, like, basically flat and then bent to the side. And I was like, I. He was like, I don't know how this healed like this. But, like, he's like, are you okay? I'm like. And at this point, I was just living. I was like, yeah, I'm fine. Like, I'm not. Like, I'm not gonna. And I was like, what's the. What are we gonna do about this? He's like, you could go to a chiropractor. I was like, I'm not going to a chiropractor.

Never again. You're like, never again.

No, I was like, don't. I was like, don't touch my face.

No.

And it was. And so he basically. He was like, well, I mean, if you're good, like, just continue going. And so, yes, I still have. Like, every once in a while, you probably caught this. I'll stutter a little bit or I'll. Like.

I've never caught that with you.

Like, it's. I catch it because I know where I've come from, and I've gotten very good at. Like. I had to retrain myself to talk very well. I had to, you know, really kind of work on all these things, and I built myself back into it. But there are still times where I'll stutter a word or I'll try to get something out, and I'll fumble it, or, you know, there'll be days where, like, I'll be like, every once in a while, I'll go and play hockey again, and I'll just be skating, and I'll miss a puck, and I'll be like, oh, okay, there's a little delayed. There we go right there. Delayed reaction. You know, it's little things like that that I'll still catch. And then every once in a while, I'll be in the gym or something, and I'll, like, do, like, an overhead press, and I'll be like, oh, I'm feeling something. Okay, put it down. And then, like, everything will go numb for a couple minutes, and then it'll come back.

So you still have that Numbness, because you never actually did, like, a fusion or anything. So it's just. But you. You've adjusted, and. Wow, that's. That's wild. And then do you still have lingering nerve pain or anything? If you were to focus on it, I know you're not focused.

Yeah, I mean, it will come if I focus on it, if I really, like. Because it'll. What's funny about the nerve pain is, like, you'll start to think about it. You'll be like, oh, like, my elbows a little twinged right now. I wonder what I did to it. And then you kind of, like, start to think about it, and then just gets worse and worse and worse, and you're like, oh, that's this. And then you just kind of have to go, okay, I know what this is. Like, we're okay. Get the distractions out. Kind of go do something else. Throw on some meditation. Just kind of get yourself. Go for, like. I'm known for going for my walks. That's one of the reasons I go for so many walks, is because it just calms my mind and it gets me out of my. Gets me out of my body. And then once you get really good at pulling yourself out of your body and going, this is temporary. I have control over this. Once you get really good at that, it's like, it's a superpower, because it's like, okay, if I'm feeling something, I'm like, okay, cool. I'll just focus on something else. It's gone, you know? And then if it's really bad, then, you know, who cares? You just get through it.

So I just want to share when I was, like, could not sleep and when my. My nerve pain was so high up, if someone had told me, go meditate or relax or focus different, I would have wanted to punch them. Like, I just. That's how I felt right then. But being on the other side of this right now, I. And literally witnessing that shift in myself. If you are literally living in pain or you got pain, please just hear it and try something like that. Try to get your mind. Because even if you can just get that subtle break getting your mind off of it, I actually think that's why THC works, because THC forces your brain to do that. So it's like, it's a natural way to do that. But if I'm the last person that would have said this before, because I would have been so triggered by. By. I was triggered by that back book years ago, Sarno, with the. With the. You know, I'M like, I have a real injury. Of course I can't. It's not just my emotions, but I'm starting to understand the, the, the neurology here. It's interesting. My neurosurgeon and I'm gonna have him on the podcast soon. But he was telling me that this is such a powerful connection, your brain and your spine, because he operates on brain and spine and. But he said they're so connected and it's so important that who he operates on has that type of mindset that will literally learn how to focus that different direction. Because if you don't focus in that direction, it does change your healing and how you feel pain and all of that. And it's just really making a lot of sense to me. The other big lesson I learned, and you guys, this is such perfect timing, is about understanding our DNA and how we're wired. Because that is not. That was helping me, like kind of close the loop on why did I keep getting injured and why, like, what's going on, like all these things. And then also the, the other layer is what when Cash told me I could do to like speed up my healing was this high focus on mitochondria. And he gave me exactly what to do based on my DNA. So I'm bringing that up again because I did an episode the other day you all might have heard directly with Cash. But next week. So if you're listening to this today, when I'm dropping it on Friday, Thursday next week, we are doing a free class, a free webinar with Cash where he's going to dive deep into all this to help you guys figure even your DNA and how that applies. So. And I'll link all this in the show notes, but it's Midlife Conversations.com DNA Midlife Conversations.com forward/DNA. It's free. You just got to save your spot. I'll put it in the show notes. Scotty, how I want to, like, I want to wrap this up in just a minute here, but can you give kind of like some. Anyone listening that has is navigating this like self doubt or pain or whatever, like kind of your daily whatever. Because you gave up, you literally gave up a whole career, your whole dreams, all your dreams. You're like one of the most positive people I know. You are not depressed walking around like that. You're not talking about chronic pain. What advice do you want someone that's navigating that right now to know from you?

It all changes with your identity. You know, don't Identify as something and don't become so committed to something that you're not willing to shift it, you know? And then if you are going to identify as something, identify something with positivity. Identify as something that's going to make it better. Heighten your level of energy. I know that a lot of people talk about energy, and it's fufu and it's this and that. If you don't heighten your level of energy, you're never going to get anywhere. You know, you really have to live in that. Who am I? What am I? How does that person live? And it's almost like the whole faking it till you make it thing. But I always say there's nothing wrong with faking it till you make it if you intend on making it, you know, so it's like.

That's a good disclaimer on that.

Yeah, that's the thing is, like, you don't live in that process. Like, what does somebody who feels good, how do they live? How do they. How do they talk to people? How do they show up? How do they, you know, what, they're showing up with a smile. They're always giddy. They're doing this. And even if you're in that pain, it's put on that smile and it's put on that. It's put on that excitement, and it's. You'll realize that once you start to do that and you start to put other people in front of you and you start to live for other people and trying to solve other people's problems and trying to help them out, you just become just like this positive every single day. Like, hey, like, who am I here to help? You know, what can I do? And it's. I always say it's like, it was such a blessing to become suicidal. It was such a blessing. And if you're at a low point right now and you're sitting there and you're like, you know, like, this could be the end for me. It's like, I want you to realize that you are in such a great place because there's nowhere further down you can go. You know, the only way you can go is up. And so all you have to do is now shift that mentality of, okay, this sucks, yes, but what could I do tomorrow? That 1%, that one little thing that could make it a little bit better, you know, and normally it's. I could probably do something for somebody else, whether that, you know, go and give. Go buy somebody a coffee, you know, go and just give somebody A compliment, you know, and watch them light up. And by them lighting up, all of a sudden you're going to start to feel a little bit of positivity because energy shifts. And then once you start to live in that and you realize, oh, a little bit more, a little bit higher energy, A little bit more, a little bit more. And then you start living in that highest peak of energy, nothing matters anymore because you're just always in that state. It takes a lot for me to come down, you know, just because I live at that peak every single day. As long as you can identify as being that person, life's great.

So good, you guys. I'll link up Scotty's social media handles down below if you wanna. If you wanna see him in action. And this is not something like he. I mean, he lives this way in his life, but this is not. You're not gonna find. I don't. You actually should put content out on this, but you don't. You're gonna find him doing some fun content and stuff. But he. You. I want you. I feel like you should talk more on this stuff. This is great. You've got this so ingrained in you.

It's fun. And, you know, it's. It's more fun when people, like. Because it's more of a surprise. It's more of that shock factor of, like, when you hear somebody that's talking about, hey, I was paralyzed and I came out. It's kind of like you hear the same story over and over and over again. And I'd rather you meet me and see this and understand that where I came from, instead of me promoting it. Yeah, it's like, no, like this, Like, I was in that situation, dude. Like, this is where I'm at now. It's this, like, I've lived so many lives that I just don't talk about that. When, like, you introduce yourself as somebody who's done something before, they're like, you've done that. It's like, yeah, like, you know, it's like, it's fun, you know, and it gives somebody hope. And if there's one thing that I want to do is just give people hope.

So good. I think you definitely are. And I'm so grateful, as you said, like, I'm so grateful that I. This just happened to me and I went through this experience because I tell people all the time, you got to focus on decision and focus on the possibility and all that. And I, you know, I hear all the time people with their circumstances, and I'm thinking I've had a million circumstances, but it took me going to this level on a circumstance to really understand what some people are doing were dealing with. And the answer was still the same. The answer was still to shift our focus. And I'm, I plan on learning a lot more about neuroscience now. Like, this is my new interest now because I, I want to dive deeper. Like DNA and neuroscience are like so important to me now. I want to understand more there. So. And anyway, yeah, thank you so much.

I was just gonna say, like, the DNA thing is like, it's so powerful too. And I wish I could talk more on. I know we've been going for like 45 minutes right now, but that's one thing I would harp on is like, if you want to start somewhere, learn yourself on a DNA level. And I think that this thing that you're doing next week is going to be phenomenal. So. And it's like a free event. So it's like if you don't sign up for that, that's your first step. Like, try it. Thank you so much. Try it.

Yes. Thanks, Scotty. Thank you.

Of course.

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