how to do virtual wholesaling real estate? | Real Estate Ring

You can't get in, there's a gate up front.

Um, what's the code for the front gate?

What's going on everybody? We got Big Stu over there on the mic. What's up everybody? Lane, Nathan, Stuart's on the phone. What's going on guys?

Yo, Stuart's got a hot deal on the table right now. We're trying to get sold and it just came in as we were going live right now, so we'll let him handle that.

Yeah, Lane, I'll text you the code right now.

My man is doing deals. We're going live, but deals are getting done, and that's why we're here, guys. We're going to be talking about today of how to do virtual wholesaling real estate. Okay, so if you've been like, okay, what, what the heck is virtual wholesaling real estate and how do you freaking do it? Well, there's no one better to do it than— we got Stuart, Nathan Payne, Lane. Stuart's in California, Lane's in Arizona, Nathan's in Connecticut. I'm in Salt Lake City, Utah. We do this virtual thing. We do it virtually, we wholesale virtually. So let's get right into it. Let's answer the question. We got Stuart, who's an awesome acquisition guy, he's going to tell us about his experience wholesaling virtually. Then we're going to make some calls. So, uh, before we dive in, let's all introduce ourselves so you know who you're listening to. My name is Nathan Payne. I've been in the business for about 7 years, done hundreds of deals. And, uh, yeah, that's a little bit about me. Nathan Valley?

Yeah, guys, my name is Nathan Valley. I've done a bunch of deals, bunch of different states. I'm known for locking up over 100 contracts in a single year, known for— some of you might have seen a 30-day challenge I did a little while ago. So I picked a totally brand new market, no contacts, no resources, nothing, and did a $20,000 deal in 30 days without spending any money on marketing and only doing it 2 to 3 hours a day, Monday through Friday. So it's a little bit about me.

Well, that's not totally true, Nathan. Your resource that you have is your charm. You have that.

Thank you.

My name's Lane Peterson. I've been doing this business for 15 years. I've bought and sold thousands of properties, fix and flip thousands of property. I have switched over to the virtual model about 5 years ago, do hundreds of wholesale deals a year. And we brought on Stuart today. Stu has been working for me this past year. He's amazing. He's got his own story on how he got into this, and it's all 100% virtual. He lives in California, I live in Arizona, but we work for the same company. Yeah.

Um, so yeah, I've been doing wholesale for about About 3 and a half years now. Um, I was always, uh, doing telemarketing, doing like phone sales for about 15 years, and then I had a buddy of mine that had a wholesale company, pulled me from the other spot, brought me over there. And then just recently I kind of just, you know, ventured off and working with Lane now. I think the first 2 and a half— first full 2 years, um, just over a million dollars in assignment fees.

Love it. Better slow down. You better slow down.

It was all virtual.

Um, all virtual.

Yeah, all virtual.

All right, well, everybody, now you kind of know who we are. And if we're— if you believe that, uh, this is worth your time to listen to, I would say yes, because we're going to not only go a little bit more in depth on what virtual wholesaling is, but we're going to make some calls virtually, right? Call people. They're not here with us right now, but we're going to try and, uh, get some people on the phone. So What is— first of all, what is virtual wholesaling? Lane, tell us in your— quickly, in your opinion, what is virtual wholesaling?

You are buying and selling homes over the phone.

Do you ever have to go see the property, Lane?

Uh, I have bought— I think in the last year we have bought over 300 properties and I have not seen a single one of them.

That blows— that should blow a lot of people's minds, I'm assuming, because if I heard that, like, how are you doing that without seeing the property? So now that that's a question that's probably on everybody's mind, that you just did 300 deals plus and didn't see any of them. Stuart, kind of give us the process. Tell us what you do in your role when you do acquisitions. Like, how are you doing this virtually? How is that even possible?

So virtually, you know, like you get a lot of people that ask like, so when do you want to come see the property? And for me, it all starts just kind of building a personal relationship with these people over the phone. Especially with inbound marketing, you know, it's not outbound. So you got to remember, at the end of the day, they're reaching out to us for a reason. There's something going on in their life that created that. Um, so for me, what's worked well is kind of just getting to the bottom of that first before I even worry about the home.

Beautiful.

Um, because once you have— yeah, once you have that then, you know, then you can work on figuring out what you need to buy, you know, buy the house for. But virtually, I mean, you need to understand markets, and it's, it's trial and error. Like, I'm still learning with some of the, the range of the marketing that we're doing. It's even a bigger scale from what I'm used to. So a lot of these neighborhoods, you know, they just— everything varies.

It's so, it's so different, right?

Yes, street by street sometimes.

Yeah, yeah, especially in some of those podunk country towns, you're like, I have no idea. Yeah.

And now that we're getting into more like working with Lane, like, you know, opening up the toolbox of, you know, a lot more creative, which I'm still learning that because from where I came from was 100% all wholesale, right? You know, very little creative. And if anything, it was, you know, the owner taking them down to add something to his portfolio, but we didn't really focus on anything creative.

Um, I love it. So let's, let's kind of break it down step by step for people. So how do you, uh, virtual wholesale real estate— so it's, you guys start with your leads, the lead flow, and right now you guys are focusing on inbound, right? So you're getting those, they come to you, and you're what's called the acquisitions manager. So you get the leads, you get on the phone, and you're saying that instead of diving into the property, you dive into what's the issue, like how can you solve the problem that's making them want to sell. So that's a good roadmap for everybody. If I had a— I was going to say if I had a whiteboard, I'd write that down, but I actually do. Right. It's right here. But yeah. So step 1, leads. 2, get on the phone and build that relationship. What's next, Stuart? Stuart?

So, you know, after you kind of have that relationship built and you've like pinpointed their motivation, then I start to focus on, you know, the home and the area. And, you know, for people just getting started, it's, it's hard to like have the conversation and run your comps and do your numbers all at the same time. It's kind of like I've gotten good to where I have selective listening, so I'm just, I, I'm just asking them open-ended questions so they can just talk while I'm doing my research on the neighborhood. You know, if it's a smaller neighborhood, seeing if, you know, what the best exit strategy is going to be so I can determine where we're going to go with an offer. Um, and, uh, yeah, it's just— it really just comes down to that.

The big part of that is, is the big part of that is like what Stu is really good at and what we really drive in is listening, right? You're listening because as you're trying to figure out like what you can offer, but you're listening on what the actual solution is. What is the best solution? Is it a cash offer? Is it creative finance? Is it just putting it on the market? You know, going the Novation route, because there's not only one tool in your tool belt, right? You got to have multiple tools in your tool belt to help these sellers.

Yeah. And great, that's the thing is like, you know, and you know, like when you, when you search for something, you go to, you know, I know I do, I look 2 or 3 different companies, put in, you know, a couple inquiries. People are the same way. And of course, doing exactly the opposite of what most people do. And it's just like people just get them on the phone and they start asking, what's the age of the roof? What's the age of the air conditioner? Like you know, just all the simple random questions.

But like, bro, none of that matters.

Yeah, like, I rarely ask— I usually don't even ask those questions until I got the contract.

Stu, I'm right there with you. When I do deals, sometimes I'll get it under contract and I'll just be like, wait, can you tell me— I forgot to ask you about the house.

And yeah, when this fool starts asking questions, they're like, hey, how long is this? I'm like, I don't know.

Exactly. Dispo usually gets mad. They're like, dude, you didn't get that?

So I'm like, bro, Bro, I got it, I got it done, I've solved it, I got the contract, it's deep enough discounted, just get the thing sold, let's get the next one. But yeah, so, you know, those— there's a lot of people out there, that's all they focus on is just those questions, and it's just the robotic, just— and when you could figure out how to get away from that and have just regular conversations with people, um, you know, they feel more comfortable talking about, you know, their divorce or they're gonna lose the house or these things, and it's just then the condition of the home really just kind of just takes a back—

right, goes to kind of the back burner.

So you're building that rapport, you're finding the motivation first, and then you kind of dive into condition if necessary.

Now, yeah, if they start asking too much, then you just kind of—

you—

hey, well, you told me you're about to lose the house next week, you know, your options are limited, you really can't have retail for the home, you got to be a little more realistic, right?

Right. No, that's all, that's all really good info. Um, let's, uh, Nate, you have something you want to say?

Yeah, I was gonna say one thing. Um, so what, the only deal I did locally was literally my very first deal. Everything's been virtual, um, in markets, you know, mostly that I did probably 50+ deals before I even visited, you know, the area. Um, so everything's been virtual. Now the, the big difference is probably 80% of what I was working with was outbound only, so prospecting. So a little bit tougher for sure. You know, when you want to sell your house, tell me why.

Yeah.

And sometimes, you know, with that question, well, hey, well, why don't you come see it? You know, they tend to give a lot of pushback. One thing I will say, guys, just keep in mind with wholesaling, specifically with wholesaling, which is what everyone watching here is doing, we are not purchasing the home. We really— we don't need to go see the home. The person that's going to be buying it, that's the person that's most likely going to be the only one that really needs to see it, right? So we don't need to be local. It's probably going to be helpful if they are, but that's their choice. It's right.

And that's a question I get asked a lot, right? People are like, well, how are you going to buy my house without seeing it? How are you going to know what it's worth? And I tell people, I said, look, I've been doing this long enough. I said, with the right questions and the most accurate answers on your end as the seller, I can give you our as-is value, right? And then that kind of gets followed up, well, you know, I've done this before and I was just in contract with another company. They came back to me and, you know, needed a reduction. And I tell people, you know, well, I might too if you're not completely honest with me about the condition of the home. So, you know, if you want to like not tell me about the giant water stain on the ceiling and when I come and see it then we're going to need to change it.

Um, yeah, you tell me it's red and I go there and it's purple, we're gonna have problems.

Yeah. And, and then people are like, oh, well, there is this one thing, and then there is, you know, the back of the house is kind of falling off the edge of the cliff. I forgot to tell you about that in the beginning.

And you know what's interesting is I'm selling my house right now. It's sold and it's closing in a month, and I've rehabbed it. It's like a nice house I live in, and there's still things you know, that I'm finding out, like, when the inspection comes through. So someone that's calling, there's something going on with the house. I know they don't live in, like, a brand new rehab house most of the time. And even if it is brand new rehab, like, like I said, there's always something in a house if it's older than, like, 5 years old.

Yeah. So it's, you know, it's— and I'm very, like, for me, like, I'm very blunt, like, with sellers, very just, um, an open book. And I tell them that in the very beginning, um, you know, I'm an open book, you know, sorry if I'm a little harsh around the edges. And it gains respect, and then it allows them to feel more comfortable, like they're not just talking to like some salesman or some agent or something like that.

So I got a quick question for you, uh, Stuart. Do you feel like you know exactly what the cost of all these reha— like a roof and water heater and all these things—

do you feel Do you know all that stuff or you're like, hey, okay, I do simple, like a $20 to $50 range per square foot, just kind of based off of what they say. And that's, you know, important.

That's important for you guys that are watching this to hear. You are not rehabbers. You are looking to work with people and help them through their problems and find a solution that will meet their needs and make it a win-win. You care about these people. And Stuart, I can tell when you talk to sellers, And as Lane's told me, like, you care, right? You're trying to find the best solution for them. And that's what matters. That's what this job really is. It's sales, marketing, and don't think you need to master how, like, what a roof costs.

And that's one thing that you need to know when we're doing this, right? We're deal finders, we're not deal manufacturers. So when you're talking to somebody and you can realize on the first phone call, like, hey, we're not the solution for you. So, you know, get to the point and be like, this is, this is where we're at, this is what we can offer, here's a couple options. And if that doesn't work, you know, best of luck. Get on to the next one. Get on to the next one.

Very last call before you called me about that, because that's exactly how that went.

You know what, don't sit there and try and do callbacks for 2, 3 weeks, you know, and, and try and manufacture a deal on this, right? Something that's not going to happen. Move on to the next. Try and find somebody that actually can use your service and find a deal. Don't try and manufacture a deal.

So this is interesting, right? Because we're live right now. So I'm on live on TikTok and there's some guy in there that's like, hey, you guys are— you take people's properties or whatever, right? There he's like, hey, how many people have you had to evict? And it's like, it's interesting because that's— if some people come in here and they see that, they're like, that's— they think that's what we're doing. That's, that's like the exact opposite. We can't— you can't make someone sell you their house, period. At all, especially at a discount. Like, it just doesn't happen. You can't like, uh, you can't trick them.

One thing I'll say is I, I actually, you know, whoever, whoever made the comment, I, I don't blame you for thinking that, um, and I'll explain why. Because there's a lot of people in this industry, and just like with any industry, right, it's like car salesmen, um, I do not think that about all our car— excuse me, all car salesmen, but it's like sometimes there's always a cookie in the bunch. And unfortunately with wholesaling, there's a lot of people that don't go about the business the right way, you know, the ethical way. Um, and it is a problem, and I do think it's good to shed a light on it. You know, one thing, and that's what I love about kind of all, all four of us here, is, you know, and that's exactly what we're talking about, is we are not here for every single seller, right? We're like, we are not everybody's solution. You know, we, we serve a very niche customer. And the thing is, is we look for, hey, where are the people that have problems that only we can solve? Not, uh, who can we, you know, steal a house from under. No, it's, it's where are there problems that we can solve that nobody else can. And that's really who we serve. And, and I know, you know, and exactly what you were saying, Lane, you know, and, you know, whoever's watching, I hope you pick up on that's literally built into how we handle the sales process, is to where we're asking questions to find out, is this somebody that we can serve? Because if not No problem, you know, hey, we'll point you in the right direction. There are guys— did 80% plus, way more than 80% of the people that I chat with, I'm typically saying, hey, sounds like you should do it with an agent, you know, then that would be your best bet. And that's what they typically end up doing. But there's a small niche of people to where, you know, it's a very, very unique scenario, very unique problem to where an agent can't help them. A friend can't help them. They can't listen to themselves, right? And it's problems to where only we can solve. I— perfect example, that the house we made the most amount of money on this year, um, that, that we did a little while ago, the house we made the most amount of money on, the seller, she sent— she texted me, I think it was like 2 weeks later, and sent me a screenshot of her vision board thanking us for helping her through that situation and completing like this was part of her dream on her vision board for the year. That is what we do.

Yeah.

So I hope that kind of, you know, my answer to like this guy in the, in, in the chat, um, you know, you're just taking advantage of people and just making money. Like my buddy that I used to work with, all right, when I first got into this business, he used to have a saying. He's like, do you think like, because people would always tell him the same thing, like, how don't you like feel bad for taking advantage of people or making the money? And he'd be like, do you think Chase is gonna feel bad when they come and foreclose on the old lady's house tomorrow? Or do you think Wells Fargo is going to, you know, care about it? Absolutely not. He's like, so at least I'm helping her solve that issue, putting some money in her pocket and not just taking the house from her. Like, if she goes a week longer, Chase is just going to come and take it.

Yeah, and yeah, exactly right. Like, we've— I've helped so many people that just didn't know what to do in that situation, you know, get out of that situation. And we all have, right? So if It's the niche. And that's what the thing is, like, on face value, like, people don't understand the niche we're serving. But if you guys dive in and listen to these calls we do, you see exactly who we can help and who we get off the phone with immediately. And the person we get off the phone with immediately is, yeah, I want, I want a million dollars and I don't, I don't need to sell right now. Like, okay, well, good luck then.

Yeah, then I'm not, I'm not the right solution for you, right? You have to know your value, right? I mean, there's a lot of people out there that we, you know, give us a bad rap because they are out there trying to take advantage of people in tough situations, right? But I'm in this business because I get such, such reward out of it by helping people. Plus I can make, you know, make a living at it. And, you know, you got to know your value. You're there, again, not to take advantage of people, but if the ones that need to go full retail, you're not the solution. Or maybe you can, you can go list it. But me as a wholesaler, I have understood my value, and my value— I change lives. I mean, I bring value to people's lives. Yeah, I mean, that really— I mean, I, I can see the value that, that, that we bring because of how we operate our business.

For me, there's no better feeling than letting them know all their options. Like, are you sure? You know, there's other options here. You could list it, you could keep it, you could flip it, and they're like, no, no, I just want this done ASAP. Just let's just get it done. And you're like, okay, great. So it's like when you let them make the decision, you give them all their options. There's no better feeling when they pick the one that is best for them and it works. It's a win-win. It works for both of us.

So, you know, it's crazy. So I'm sitting here looking at like our CRM and I'm looking at, you know, the few dozen deals that we have under contract, and I'm just like looking down the list of the ones that are my personal ones, and I'm like thinking that every one of these people have a unique situation that they could not get out of if it wasn't for them reaching out to us. Like, none of the— every single one of these people have some kind of unique situation that only we were able to solve for them.

Well, let's watch you do another one right now.

Yeah, and I was just, you know, just to bring it full circle back to the virtual wholesaling, guys, when you're— whether it's virtual or not, when you are talking with sellers That is exactly what you're looking for. If you've wondered, whenever, you know, you hear us or whoever talk about deals that we've done, deals that we've wholesaled, and when we tell the story behind it, it always sounds like, oh man, that's like such a specific situation, you know, of course that person needs your help. Exactly. Yeah. And so when you are reaching out to sellers, when you're talking with them, having a conversation, guys, I, I know if you've been watching this, you know my number, number, number one rule when it comes to sales. Just one rule: genuinely care more about that person's outcome than they do. That's it. And I got that from Alex Ramos. Thank you very much. But, but if you just keep that one thing in mind and then you're looking for people that, hey, does this person have a unique problem that I can solve? If not, point them in a better direction if you don't have one.

So what time is it now, boys?

Because you're solving their problem doing that. I mean, you're still giving them the value that they reached out to you for when you do that, because, hey, I can't solve it, but go over here. And you could probably solve it that way. Now, do they listen? Maybe, maybe not, but you gave them the guidance, you know.

Uh, all right, all right, real estate ring time, bro.

Take the phone.

Let's call Tom.

I really enjoy comedy, and like, I, I just, I, I love jokes, and I'm willing to do a lot for a good joke. He's like, it'd be so funny to stage a call right now and just be like, hey, yeah, just, just put your signature right a year, it'll be— uh, too funny.

We don't take advantage of anybody. Hey, your house—

apologize if you guys can't— I don't have like fancy studio, I'm working from the, from the home.

Wrong speaker. It is the wrong speaker. Put it up to your mic.

So if you're just tuning in, he's virtually wholesaling right now.

This is it.

Lane said he was going to put a really nice office in my home. He said he was going to hook me up with like fancy speakers.

Right after you do another 7 figures in assignment fees.

He said he'll buy you a $100 mic once you make him another million. Get the Shure mic, it's a good one.

Your call has been forwarded.

No problem. And just, you know, Lane had the perfect definition of what is virtual wholesaling, right? Selling over the phone. So again, just to reiterate, you can virtually wholesale in your local market, right? It just means you're not necessarily going in person, you know, belly to belly, um, with the sellers and, and negotiating in person, walking the homes and stuff like that. So you can still pick the market that you live in, right, and say, hey, I just want to operate on, on a virtual basis, you know, we're doing everything over the phone.

Exactly. If it's over 5 minutes from my house, I'm gonna try not go.

You know what's crazy? As I was thinking about this when you guys started talking about that, like, you know, probably closing in on a little over 100 deals, I've never walked one of my own deals, even ones that have been local in Southern California. I've walked more deals from— for other wholesalers taking pictures when they post like on Instagram, hey, anybody near Rancho Cucamonga, I need something, I'll pay you a couple hundred bucks.

I'm like, done deal, that's it, I'll go grab you some pictures.

I've walked more properties that way for other people than I've ever done any property that I've ever got under contract.

Amazing.

What was the name of that? Is that a real place?

Rancho Cucamonga.

New York, he doesn't know.

Oh yeah, watch, uh, watch The Next Friday. That's how Rancho Cucamonga got famous. Like Inland Empire, Southern California. Like, I'm like 45 minutes from LA.

Oh, nice, nice, nice.

Guys, I got a question. You know, for the young Gen Xers or the really new, you know, the young bucks, do you think they know what this is? I don't think they've seen one of these, these, these phones that I've—

oh bro, it's a half-eaten pretzel.

Come on.

You guys want to know something funny? So my wife's a teacher, right? And if you ask kids, like, say, say when we were a kid, if somebody said, hey, how do you answer the phone? You go like this, right?

Yeah.

Kids nowadays, you ask them, how do you answer the phone? They go like this.

Hey, that's my baby, bro. My baby picks up anything.

Yeah, dude, in, uh in the other CRM under, uh, our unresponsive that we haven't gotten a hold of yet. All right, start, start from the top right there to try— is Francis on the top for you?

It's been running slow for me all since I text you this morning about it.

I'll draw another phone while he's there doing that.

Yeah, Francis is on the top. Hey, actually, hold on, we just had a call-in from, uh, ours. Let me call this lady back.

Oh, hold on, no, don't call her back. I need to call her back. That was our call from last week, Vicki, remember? That was facing foreclosure.

Yeah, what's the deal? What's the deal?

I have not been able to get a hold of her, and then she just called back right now.

Are you gonna call her?

Let's call her.

That is very interesting. I was about to ask you what happened to that because she, she was—

remember she was meeting with another wholesaler like the next day?

Yeah, she, she ghosted. Well, she's not ghosted, she was talking to other people obviously, right? She, she said that. She's about to say, Lane, help me out at my house, I need to sell it tomorrow.

I mean, with how much time's good? Yeah, because today's Thursday. It's okay though, because how much you want to bet the other person canceled their contract after 3 days?

Absolutely.

I'll get me fired up. About to find out.

Boy. Hello, Vicki? Hi, it's Lane. I saw that I missed your call a few minutes ago.

Oh, I was calling back. I didn't know who— I thought I recognized the number, but I wasn't sure.

Yeah, no, I've been trying to get a hold of you. We spoke last week about your home.

And the potential investors, right?

I am not with HomeVestors, but I know who HomeVestors is. Did you end up meeting with them?

Yeah, I've already signed the paperwork and it's a done deal. We're just waiting for closing.

Okay, well, that is awesome. I'm glad you were able to get it done, and hopefully everything, everything goes through. And if anything happens, make sure and call me.

I will call you next. Uh, I thought it's been so confusing. I've never done anything like this.

No, we— yeah, no, we— well, good. I'm glad that we were. We spoke, and then I think they were coming out the next day to actually walk the property with you and take a look at it.

I don't know. I wrote it down that I was— that you were on this and I thought it was the same.

Oh, that's fine. Hey, Vicki, let me— let me— can I ask you something?

Sure.

How much did they end up giving you for it?

Uh, $225.

Okay. And how fast of a close are they doing?

Um, actually, I got an email. They want my, um, routing number and I've got to go to the bank to get it. I don't I lost all my stuff with my other phone.

Yeah, I knew you had to, you had to have a quick close because of the foreclosure that was coming up, right?

That's on the 28th, so I have like, I think there's— yeah, it's not, it's not very— with the weekend, it's like 3 days difference. Yeah, but it looks like it's closed. Um, I got an email for, um, verification and for the routing numbers and all that. But that could just be the steps. I don't know.

Um, good.

But I can't do it until they, they send that through. But if I have, um, any weird, like, wild— I don't have a clue— it'd be okay if I called you?

Yes. Yeah, please do. I hope— but hey, hopefully everything goes through and everything is smooth and it happens all before that foreclosure date. And, you know, I wish you the best of luck. And if anything happens, please call me.

Okay, Lane, thank you so much. And you have a wonderful rest of your week, even though, you know, hopefully tomorrow will go by faster.

Yeah, thanks, Vicki. Appreciate it.

Okay, bye-bye.

So that's interesting because Friday, I don't think they would have been able to close by now.

Well, you remember this lady, you know, she was facing foreclosure and it was coming up on August 28th, so something had to happen quick. She either had to get a postponement to that foreclosure or get a contract and close it before August 28th.

I just don't know if they can— well, I don't— obviously you can close the deal as quick as possible, but she met with them Friday and it's Thursday today, so they would have had to close, get her to the title company to sign. I just don't know if done yet. Maybe they're just in the process of getting her info, but if it closed that fast, wow, that's crazy.

Yeah, no, I'm, I'm sure they can. I mean, if— as long as— because there's no way.

So I think last time we spoke with her, you know, you had told her, hey, get on the phone and have them come sooner than Monday. So maybe, maybe they did come sooner and then they were able to kind of—

she thought it was you, dude. So they probably were like, yeah, yeah, we're with that guy, let's get it done.

Well, I mean, I mean, HomeVestors, you know, they're a nationwide franchise. I actually used to own a HomeVestors franchise. It's the We Buy Ugly Houses guys. Yeah, they had one here in Arizona.

They had to rebrand, bro. They had to rebrand because, uh, I don't know. I'm just kidding. I don't know.

Hey, they got it. They got a good lead and it looks like they got a decent deal. What'd she say they're paying?

$220,000.

Yeah, I mean, the home looks like it's probably worth $330,000.

Interesting. Well, there you go, guys. Lane did an awesome call. And that's— I would say that is kind of the, the pros and cons of going in person, is sometimes in person you can try, like, maybe get the contract signed when over the phone it might take a little bit of finesse. 100%. So, um, pros and cons, right? Pros and cons.

Yeah. And I would say, like, one of the just really blatantly clear pros as to why virtual versus, you know, because that is going to happen. Sometimes you will lose to the person that's able to go there in person, like no doubt about it. I think that's what, you know, even coming from someone that all of my appointments have been virtual over the phone except for one, I would still say in person is more effective, but I could do 20, 30 calls in a day you know, compared to how many houses can you really—

like 2 or 3?

Yeah, like 4. I mean, again, if you— you got to think driving, you're going to be spending way more time most likely.

Danger of being on the road. You're in your— in— you're in your office safer.

It all depends on your market, right? My backyard market is Phoenix, Arizona, and it is super, super competitive here. You got to spend a lot of money to compete with people for for inbound leads when it comes to PPC, Google Ads, Facebook, all that sort of stuff. You're, you're, you're up against some big, big hitters that are spending hundreds of thousands of dollars a month in advertising, right? And so if you're just starting out and you're, you know, it's super hard to compete with that. So if you're in a market that's not very competitive and you can do your own backyard market, then that's okay, right?

Yeah.

That's it.

Well, there you go, guys. You got, you got a taste of everything today. You got a taste of the ring. You got a taste of the how to do virtual wholesaling real estate. Stu called. Lane called. I think we're good, guys. Until next time.

Hey, sometimes they answer, sometimes they don't. That's just the nature of the beast.

And yeah, well, Stuart, I hope to have you back on, man. It was a pleasure to have you on here, and it was fun hanging out. Yeah. All right, guys, contracts. If you guys got nothing else to say, we'll see it. We'll see you next Real Estate Ring, next Thursday, next week.

Thanks, guys.