Is Wholesaling Real Estate LEGAL? ✅ Find Out Now!

What is going on everybody? We are here with the Real Estate Ring, Wholesaling Real Estate Ring, where we make calls live. What's going on guys?

What is going on my man?

What's up?

How is everybody?

Oh, we're doing fantastic. All right, so guys, today what we're going to do, we're going to do something a little different. We're going to start today off with a question that's being searched all over the internet: is wholesaling real estate legal? So that's what we're going to do for you guys. We're going to answer that question, tell you what, what we would do in this situation to know, uh, to give you the answer, and. And if you, you know, if you want to dive a little deeper, we're going to give you some advice. And on top of that, we're going to make some calls because we're going to show you that, you know, whether it's legal or not, you know, you're going to find that out, but we're going to make some calls. And before we get into it, I want to introduce myself. My name is Nathan Payne, been in the industry for about 6 years plus, done hundreds of deals. And my goal is to do more deals and help others do deals. Nathan Valley, who are you?

Yeah, guys, my name is Nathan Valley, been in wholesaling for about 5-ish years now, known for locking up over 100 contracts. Contracts in a single year and doing a 30-day challenge I did a little while ago to where I picked a totally brand new market, no contacts, no resources, nothing, and did a $20,000 deal in 30 days, only spending 2 to 3 hours a day, Monday through Friday. So it was a good month.

Pretty impressive. Go ahead, Lane.

Very impressive. My name is Lane Peterson. Good to be here. I've been wholesaling for 15 years. I have wholesaled thousands of houses. I fix and flip thousands of houses. I've sold land, commercial, the whole gamut. Love to— love doing this. Love being here.

I love it. Okay, well, let's get dive right into it. You guys are here. You probably want to know what the question I got written back here before we start making calls is: wholesaling real estate legal or not? Now, I know this is a hot topic that's been hitting a lot because there's been some legislation, some laws have been trying to get passed. So let's dive right into that question. And then right after, let's make some calls. And you probably already are assuming if we're going to make calls, it's definitely legal. Okay, but we're going to dive into a little bit like what's going on. So there's a couple different states out there that are pushing, I would say, different laws that make it difficult to for sale, or I would even say illegal depending on what state you are. So it's state by state. And, uh, the word illegal sounds really bad, like you're an outlaw, you're doing something really bad or naughty. Guys, they're trying to put the money, all the money from real estate in the pockets of real estate agents. They want to regulate— the government wants to regulate who's making the money. That's why they're doing this. And, uh, so it's, it's state by state. So if you're curious on how— if your state, if it's illegal or legal or not, this is Nathan Payne. He's got a good point, uh, on what he recommends you should do.

Go ahead. Yeah, I actually got this question. It was yesterday. Had a gentleman who is in Philly. Philly was his market and he was like, hey man, you know, yeah, I feel like I need to go to a different market because, you know, I heard some legislation got passed and wholesaling is not legal in my local market, Philadelphia. And so one thing, guys, is people are wholesaling everywhere. Let me also preface with, right, the disclaimer, we're not attorneys, go seek, you know, counsel. But we'll give you our two cents. So first things first, if you're looking to wholesale, if you're looking to do creative finance, whatever it is you're looking to do, I highly recommend, especially once you pick whatever market you want to be in, right? Don't worry about the legislation for first. Pick a great market for wholesaling. And step number 2, what I would do and what I instructed this gentleman to do was his market was Philly. I said, hey, go to Facebook, go to Facebook groups and type in Philadelphia real estate, Philadelphia real estate investors. Join a bunch of those groups. Go into one of the groups that's for, you know, Philadelphia real estate investors. There's a little box once you're inside the group, a search bar, and you can type into the search bar the word title or attorney. And what you'll see is all the previous conversations to where somebody used the word title will pop up on screen. And so now you can see all the conversations, all the posts that people had previously made. And what you'll find is the posts that say, hey, anybody know a local, you know, investor-friendly title company? Hey, anybody know a local investor-friendly closing attorney? 'And then you'll see there's like 10, 20 comments. Click on the comments and then see who those people specifically referred.' Don't go to Google and type it in because then you'll just get a bunch of national companies. But what you're doing is now you'll be able to get a real local investor-friendly title company or closing attorney that was referred by other investors that knows what they're doing. And yeah, and guys, there's nobody better to talk to than an expert in that exact topic in your specific market. All right. So whatever market you're in, no one's going to be able to answer that question better than a closing, you know, an investor-friendly closing attorney or investor-friendly title company in that local market. And guys, call them and just ask, say, hey, I'm new to wholesaling or I'm just getting started in this area. You know, I was afraid of this. What do I need to know? A lot of times they'll give you paperwork. They'll tell you the whole thing.

Yeah.

Because they get paid off of you doing deals.

That's exactly right. Nathan, you crushed that answer. I appreciate you doing that. Wholesaling doesn't have to be complicated. Complicated or lonely, join my free Facebook group, Painless Flipping Wholesaling Real Estate Simplified, where we're building a community of wholesalers crushing their goals. You're going to get access not only to free training but tools and even one-on-one help to land your next deal. The link is in the description, so don't miss out. By the way, guys, if you're worried about wholesaling real estate being illegal, that's one strategy we use, just one, as real estate investors. That's not the main thing. Let's just say it's completely gone in a couple years in every state. It doesn't matter because there's going to be other ways that we can invest. Always will be. In Utah, this question came and a lot of people were worried about it like 5 years ago when I first started. And I actually, like my first deal, I had to sit down in front of the Board of Realtors in Utah because I had wholesaled the deal. I sent it out to every agent in the state of Utah. So the Board of Realtors was like, you can't market a property that you don't own. This is 5, 6, 7 years ago. Well, 6 years ago when I first started. And yeah, I was scared. I was like, what do I do? Because this has been in the conversation. What they do in Utah to overcome this whole thing is they just, they just sell properties in trusts. Okay, that's not illegal. There's that— that'll probably be where a lot of this goes, is you put the property that you have in a trust and then you sell the trust anyway. Not going to get super in-depth on that, but you can do it through LLCs, you can do the trust, you can do double close, you can just buy the property yourself and wholesale it. So if you're thinking about doing wholesaling or getting into real estate and you're like, oh, but it's going to be illegal, you know, that's actually good for us because we all know how we can continue going into this business and we're going to be able to overcome pretty much any challenge and there's going to be less competition. So I I look at this as a good thing. I don't know about you, Lane and Nathan, but there's going to be less competition. The barrier to entry might be a little bit higher and people are going to be a little scared to come in. It's going to be less competition. But either way, it's not illegal in a lot of states, maybe some. And if you're worried about those, just ask, like Nathan Valley said, a title company, investor-friendly title company or investor-friendly closing attorney, and they'll point you in the right direction to how to do it the right way.

And if you don't get the answer that you're looking for, ask a couple, right? And then, and then make your own, your best judgment from there.

Yeah, because it is a state-by-state issue, right? I mean, there's only a handful that have made it illegal, but there's still stipulations around that. Like, I did a deal in Kentucky a couple of months ago and it was a realtor that found me, that found the deal or found me and said, well, we can't do that here in Kentucky. Wholesaling is illegal in Kentucky. Well, I was like, well, I didn't know that because I'm not in Kentucky and I don't even know what you're talking about. Well, I dug down a little bit deeper and it's illegal to wholesale if you are a licensed real estate agent. Right now, it's not illegal. It's just when you wholesale and you have a license in Kentucky, you have to— there has to be a buying and selling agent in order to have the deal. So you just have to throw commissions in it and the Board of Realtors will be happy.

Yeah. And in Chicago, you're able— I think you're able to do 1 or 2 a year and then they're like, you can't do any more than that. So it's state by state. And I did a deal in Chicago and instead of getting paid at close, I got paid outside of close. And the buyer that I was cool with just paid me a consulting fee because I pretty much consult— was consulting them.

Hey, here. Here.

This is not— I'm not buying this, but, uh, you know, here's one, here's an opportunity for you. So again, don't worry about it, but this is a good thing in my opinion because it's going to get all the fly-by-night guys out of here, and we're gonna have more opportunities. So without further ado, guys, if that, that answers your question, let's make some calls and let's show you how it's done. Lane, the ultimate champion. Oh yeah, one last thing I want to say, Lane. If any of you guys do run into a deal and you're like, I don't want to wholesale, I don't know what to do, I'm a little scared, I don't want to get in trouble, send it to us, we'll take care of you.

We'll take care of it. We'll do the deal.

We'll do the deal and we'll figure out how to get it done. So send it to us, you know, painlessflipping.com. And then you're either going to work with Lane on the side where he's going to help you with the deal, or you're going to work with us and we're going to teach you how to get in, get rolling. So either way, we got you. All right, let's make some calls.

Okay. Yeah, real quick. Just a reminder, you know, these calls that we're making, these are inbound leads, right? There's a big difference between inbound and outbound. These people are finding advertisements online or, you know, the PPC, the Google AdWords, Facebook, and they are filling out a form. Giving me some information about the property before I call them. So it's a much easier conversation than if I'm just cold calling, right? You're cold calling, you're calling people out of the blue. They don't even know why you're calling. It's a little bit more of a difficult conversation. So these are all inbound leads. They have reached out to us saying that they want to sell their property.

So, Lane, you're telling me you don't really like just pulling the absentee owner list and just cold calling it? You're telling me you're not a fan?

You know, it, it works for a lot of people and they do great. It's just, it's a lot more work that you get grinding and grinding.

Does it work, Lane? Does it really work? It works.

Yeah, you got to stick to it though. It's all about consistency.

You know, it works if you got a squad of Egyptian or Filipino cold callers just blasting that list.

I have used a lot of EAs to do my cold calling, and that, that's a very effective way to cold call.

Yeah, because I, I don't know about you, Lane, but I cold call when I first started this business. 2 hours is, was as much as I could do before I had to tap out every day. I was like, man, I stop.

This guy actually already talked to my intake team and we got a little bit of information from him. Hello? Hello, is this Robert?

This is me, Robert.

Hi, my name is Lane. You spoke with my team a little bit ago about your property you're looking to sell on 464 Hugh Street. Yeah, did I catch you at a good time? Oh, that's you. Okay, great, I appreciate it. Um, I'm just kind of looking at some notes that you had given to our— my team earlier And is it— do you live in this property or are you renting it out?

No, I'm living in it.

Okay. And what kind of time frame are you wanting to sell in?

As quick as possible.

Okay. And what's got you wanting to sell so quick?

I want to move up here to Alabama with my grandbabies.

Oh, fun. You got some grandbabies in Alabama, huh?

Yeah, I got 5 of them up here, 2 down there. Gotcha. But they all coming up here with me, so.

Awesome.

One big happy family.

Well, I won't play around with all of them. I got more. I just can't reach them all.

That makes sense. Well, what I, what I have here is you're saying that the property needs a new roof.

Is that correct?

Yes, sir. Okay. And you're saying that the kitchen needs work?

It just needs kitchen cabinets. The doors, they're falling off. Just, you know, the hinges on the doors, they're coming off.

Gotcha. All right. So he could just use a whole new kitchen.

Yeah. Yeah. I will eventually try to do that, but I got hurt at work and tore my rotator cuff on my shoulder and it put me out. So I ain't able to do— finish what I wanted to do.

Okay. Well, sorry to hear about that. Let me just verify with you real quick. Is it about a 1,000-square-foot, 2-bed, 1-bath? Yes. Okay. Built 1966? Yes. And it is a manufactured home, right?

What you mean by that?

A mobile home.

It's a mobile home. Yeah, yeah, yeah. With a 15 by 16 add-on living room and 15 by 16 bedroom.

Okay, so does that make it more than a 2-bedroom, 1-bath?

Well, you can actually— where the laundry is now, you can actually turn that back into a bedroom and put the laundry off in the living room as the door goes out to another floor. Oh yeah, where the hot water heater sits.

Okay, so the addition— this is where laundry set back there before. So the addition that you did on it though, what did that add, a bedroom? So is it 3-bedroom now or still?

That was already added on when I bought it.

Gotcha. Okay, so the square footage and the bed bath count that I told you earlier, that includes the additions?

I think so, yeah.

Okay, gotcha.

All right, because we went off to the, the plans that, you know, she showed us and all. Yeah, but now I did do— I did do upgrade. I took the screw-in breakers because I had the screw-in fuses. I took them out and I put breaker boxes in.

Gotcha.

Okay, so I updated everything. I've updated pretty much a lot of things in there.

Okay, good to know. Anything else updated from the time that you lived in it?

Yeah, but I'll bring you from the living room to the big bedroom, but I'll bring you a floor with plywood and all 2x6s. Doors, all that brand new. I put new walls from the living room to that big bedroom up, new ceiling fan. Had to straighten up some wiring problems. Somebody had some— who, none of the additions had a pot and a neutral tied together. So my son, he's an electrician, so he went in and changed all that, fixed all that right. Got the light in the kitchen working. We got the— I put a $1,000 unit in the window for AC, and then I spun up. We got a 5-burner gas heater put in the room because that's got natural gas running into it.

Okay, is that the only AC on the house, is the window unit? Yeah. Okay, gotcha.

Okay, there was nothing— there wasn't actually nothing there when I bought it, but, uh, you know, I put it in. It's one of some of the biggest units that you can buy.

Okay, and it does cool the whole house?

Yeah, to me it does.

Yeah. Okay. All right. Well, Robert, how much, how much are you hoping to sell this thing for? How much are you hoping to get for a cash offer?

I've been offered $46,000.

And how come you didn't take that?

I ain't got back down home yet. The guys, they sent me a thing for me to sign, but I got to get back up with the woman I'm buying it from and go over it with her. And because I owe her $21,300. And I just want to tell her, you know, she's going to get her money. And then I won't tell her what I'm getting off from it. I was just going to tell her stuff and pay her off.

Okay. Gotcha. So you bought it and she financed it for you? She did a seller finance? Yeah.

Gotcha. Okay.

And that's counting me. I'm over $20,000 on the property and the house and all. And then I owe $1,300 for taxes.

$1,300 for the taxes, you said?

That makes— yeah, that makes just for 3 years that she's paid. So that might make me owe her $21,300.

Gotcha. And how much is your payment to her each month?

I pay $500 a month.

$500. Okay. Yeah, it shouldn't matter. I mean, you don't need to tell her what you're selling it for because she's just your— she's your lender, right? So she's going to get paid off what you owe her. Are you—

I talked to her one time about it before and she told me as long as she got her money, she was good with it. But I think that man, that gentleman I talked to, he said that he had to do some kind of consent because it was still actually in her name until I get it paid off.

Well, that depends on your agreement with her. I don't know what kind of agreement you have with her, but to me it just sounds like— I got a contract. Yeah, to me it just sounds like she's on a lending, uh, lender position, so she should have her payoff. And are you behind on payments?

No, I'm up to date. Okay, actually, when I get in, I, I am going to have to take her payment as soon as I get in, which I got the money. I'm just up in Alabama right now, okay, with some of my grandbabies, but I'm gonna come in on the 3rd. I got to go to her house. I'm gonna take her to 500 and then talk to her about, and somebody's wanting to buy it, and I was gonna pay her off cash money.

Okay, so that, uh, that payment that you make her, it does not include the property taxes or homeowner's insurance? That's just to her, right?

No, yeah, that's just to her. So on top of that, yeah, yeah, property tax ain't due until the next year, so.

Gotcha. Well, where did, uh, the people that offered you that, um, $46,000 cash, is that offer still good?

Well, I told them I had to wait till I got back down there to get around her, you know, and talk to her and stuff. As far as I know, yeah.

How long, how long ago did you get it?

I think yesterday or no, day before yesterday.

All right, well, I'll be honest with you, uh, if that is truly a cash offer and close it in a reasonable amount of time, I would take that offer. That's a good cash offer. My offer, my offer for just as-is, all cash, will be down closer to $30,000. So I'm a, I'm a little bit lower, and that probably doesn't get you where you want to go. But I'll tell you what, I'll tell you what, though. If that cash offer is truly a cash offer, I would just suggest, you know, make sure they're putting up some earnest money. You know, they're putting up some money to some good faith.

And that's in the paperwork that you sent on my email on my phone.

Okay. Yeah, I'm just making a suggestion. You know, make sure that they're— make sure they're putting up some money for good faith and, you know, to make sure that they're real.

If anything happens, I know what you're talking about because I've worn off of me one, and the contract he sent me didn't have that. What he was talking about, it didn't have that. Then my daughter looked over it and she said, Daddy, I wouldn't sign that. She said, that's just a joke.

Yeah, well, I'll tell you what, if it doesn't work out, give me a call because I could probably get you a little bit more money. But I want your seller, the one that sold you the home, I want her to leave that loan in place. I'll take it over. And then I'll pay you out the difference. I could pay you a little bit more money if we can get that done.

Okay. Yeah, we probably can.

Okay, well, hey, you give me a call because I could probably, um, let's see here. How much did you say they offered you?

$46,000.

So, you know, that should give me enough to get— because my son and my two grandbabies are living in— I have to get them a place and pay her off and, you know, get us from down there to up here and Things up here ain't quite as cheap as it is down there.

Yeah. Well, yeah, you make sure that offer's real and give me a call back if something happens, because I could probably get right close to that number. But I just need to make sure that that loan can stay in place and I can take it over.

All right.

Okay. When are you— when are you planning on making a decision?

Well, the third one that we go in, I got— we want to talk to her. Her about it and then go from there and see what she says. You have a— and we're gonna go from that.

You have a third offer coming in, or are you talking about talking to the, the seller?

No, I'm talking about the woman that I owe $21,300.

Yeah, okay. Well, I'll— I'm gonna— I'll tell you what, you're— when are you getting back in town?

The third.

Okay. Do you mind if I put a reminder, um, with myself to give you a call on the fourth and see how it— see how it all worked out?

Yeah, you can do that.

Okay, perfect, Robert. I'm gonna do that. And I'm just— I mean, just some advice before you sign that contract: make sure they've put up some money so they're putting their money where their mouth is.

That you talk about that I got with her ain't really alone. That's just for her. I'm talking about—

I'm talking about the buyer, the person that gave you an offer to buy the home.

Oh, okay.

Make sure they're putting up some good faith money.

Yeah, yeah.

Okay, Robert, I'm gonna call you on the 4th. Hey, thank you very much.

All right.

Yeah, way to go, Lane! Get him!

This thing's a 1966 mobile home, 2-bed, 1-bath in Tallapoosa, Georgia.

I could be wrong, but from the way that man was describing the property, in my head I got an image of of, you know, this thing's held together by Legos and duct tape.

Yeah, you, you, you might not be there. I mean, there's some— I was just, I was just looking around in there and there's, you know, there's houses nicer than his that one just sold for $50,000, but then there's another one across the street that sold for $200,000.

What you guys just saw was a way to make money by mobile homes by selling them on terms to people. That's a strategy that this lady's probably rocking. She probably owns tons of mobile homes and sells them to people on terms. And they drop off the money to her house in a bag or something. You know, that's just— that's the life she's decided to live, and that's fine. But that's probably what she's doing.

I did that strategy in Arizona in 2014. I bought a mobile home from a seller in Phoenix, and I paid $45,000 for it. And then I sold it to this sweet Mexican family that's still in it, and I sold it to them for $135,000, right, on seller finance. Wow. Right. They— and their down payment was they gave me $5,000 cash, and they remodeled the entire thing because it was rough. It was really Wow. And then they make, they make payments to me and it's been great.

Well, they have a home.

It's a strategy that works, you know, like obviously I have a buddy that did that. He would, yeah, lease options or, you know, seller finance, whatever wraps like you do. And these are when we say mobile home, we're not just to clarify, it's not like you're doing this in a mobile home park where you don't own the land, you just like rent. This is, I'm assuming the property you have is actually just a mobile home on land and it's technically real estate, right? Like it's not in a mobile home park. Where they're paying the lot fee, right? Yeah.

One.

Yeah.

You want to— you want to see my screen? Do you want to see it? Let's see.

Yeah.

Yeah. Well, as you bring it up, one of the things I want to go over, man, I— it's so, so, so good. I don't know if you guys picked up on it when he did it, but this is so critical when you're negotiating, whether it's an agent, a seller, whoever, whenever they say, oh yeah, I know, I already got an offer at blank price, guys, I don't care how high or how low the offer is. I pretty much say the same thing every single time, which is exactly what Lane did, which I go, man, okay, like, I'll be honest, that sounds like a pretty good offer. What held you back from just moving forward with that? Guys, like, that is the easiest question and you'll get so much information out of it. And then especially, you know, then you get to kind of push them in that direction because if they wanted that offer, they would have already said yes to it. Right? And they would assign that. There's a reason why they're hesitating. There's a reason why they didn't go with that offer or they haven't yet. And so when you go for another, like, man, I'll be honest, it's a pretty good offer. You know, you might— I really think you should, you should reach back out or see if you can make that one work. What it does is it's kind of like you both know that that offer is like a 99% chance it's not going to work out, and it sets you up perfectly to get it at that lower number and doing it in a way, even if whatever price you're at is exactly what the other person could make work too. The thing is, is they're locking it up too high and they're going to lose that trust and that credibility with the seller when they can't perform at that price and they try to renegotiate and the seller's going to be like, oh no, I'm done working with you guys. But then he's going to chat with Lane even if it's the exact same price or even if it's a little less because he doesn't trust the other people anymore.

Love it. I stay away from bashing other people, like I just don't do it. But there is ways to call them out and be like, all right, you want to know if this guy's for real? And that is, you know, hey, are they putting up any earnest money? Is there a big old long inspection period? Are they putting their money where their mouth is? That's just, you know, my— just some advice. Just watch out for those things. I've seen it burn people in the past. And then sure enough, I've had so many come back to me and say Hey, he was putting up zero earnest money. He had this long inspection period. You know, I just did not feel comfortable with it. And so it helps your case.

Of course, my favorite way to do it is, is I just write— I'll be like it. And I've done this with agents and I've done this with sellers and it works with both people. I just go, hey, it sounds like it's a wholesaler or it sounds like they're looking to wholesale the property. Is that— is that the case? Now, if you're talking direct to seller, a lot of times it'll be like, what? Like, what's that?

Right?

You're like, well, it's somebody that, you know, they're not really looking to buy it or they don't have the means to, and they're just trying to get the contract and sell to somebody else at a higher price. And the funny thing is you can still do the same thing. The difference between you and them is when you're not hiding it, again, you're not losing that trust, you're not losing that credibility. And guys, the simplest things like that, which is just being honest and transparent with the seller, can give you a competitive advantage over 80% of the other wholesalers out there. Just by doing the business the right way.

You got to do it the right way, baby. All right, guys. Well, that was good. We answered, is wholesaling real estate legal? And basically what we got to say before we wrap up is if you like this, like, hit the bell icon and the like, subscribe, all that stuff out there. I'm just messing all it up, but just, just do that. All that good stuff that gets you to see more of these videos. And if you're interested in doing deals with us, obviously hit us up at painlessflipping.com. You'll be able to work with Lane. Lane's kind of the one that takes the charge on working with you on deals. And if you guys are interested in getting shown how to build your real estate business, we hold your hand. Me and Nathan Payne hold your hand and show you how to do it. So that's pretty much it. Nathan, Lane, do you guys have anything you want to say before we roll out?

I was just going to say, if you're in this business, there are people in need. So truly do it from your heart. Truly want to help people. Don't just try and take advantage of people. There's so many people that have given us a bad rap as wholesalers when at the end of the day, I'm just looking for the ones that truly need someone that needs my services, right? I'm a deal finder, not a deal manufacturer, right? If someone calls me, I want to really know, like, can I help them? If I can't help them or they just want way too much money or whatever, it's like, okay, thanks for calling, be on your way. But so really, truly trying to help people.

I love it, man. And I'll also end with, with that. I'll give you guys my number, number, number, number, number one. Sale/negotiating tactic, which is— and it goes right in line with what, what Lane here is saying. If you guys want to go from brand new, just getting started, scared to even pick up the phone, to immediate rock star right this second, it's this one principle: genuinely care more about the other person's outcome than they do. Because when you do that, it's not about you anymore. You're not going to stress, you're not going to be scared about making the phone call, this, that, because it's not about you. You're caring more about that person's outcome. And yes, that means if something genuinely seems like a better option for them, like listing the property, suggest that. And even, you know, go as far as to help them, you know, with that next step of like, oh, I actually know an agent that I could connect you with, or whatever the case may be. The funny thing, guys, is you'll find you get so much further in the negotiating, and you'll actually get a lot further with leads. Uh, beautifully said.

All right, guys, we'll see you next week. Later, everybody. All right, so here's your next step, everybody. Join my free Facebook group called Painless Flipping Wholesaling Real Estate Simplified. If you're ready to take action and close your deals faster, this is where you need to be. You're going to be getting live trainings, free resources, and support all along your way. Link is below in the description, so just click it there. And don't stop there. Watch the next video here to learn more about wholesaling strategies that will help you get your next deal faster. Click it now and let's keep the momentum going.