Real Calls, Real Deals: what is reverse wholesaling real estate

Hey, yo, what's going on, my good people? What's up, Nathan Payne?

How you doing, my man? What's happening, brother?

I'm excited, guys. You know, I'm excited because we're going to come to you today and teach you something that you're going to love. It's going to help you make more deals, make more money. We're excited. I'm pumped. I don't know about you, man.

You look pumped.

You look excited, dude.

It's been a minute since I've been on here with everybody. So, yeah, man, I'm excited. We're going to get on here. We're going to make some calls. Show you guys some really cool stuff. Um, this is not going to be just teaching. We're going to be walking you guys through, hey, what is actually doing the business of wholesaling look like? That's what we're going to be doing. So that's kind of what inspired us to get back on here, start going live with you guys a lot more often, because we don't want to just talk about it. We want to show you guys what does this actually look like in practice.

So not only that— sorry, don't mean to cut you out— but not only that, but we, uh, we just miss you guys and we want to interact with you. So, you know, come on in, let us know where you're watching from. And, uh, you know, it occurred to me that not everybody knows, uh, even if they watched our stuff or somehow stumbled across these feeds, maybe they don't know who we are. So first of all, I want to introduce myself and you can introduce yourself, Nathan. My name is Nathan Payne. I've been in the real estate game for about 6 years now. Actually, May is my 6-year anniversary of being in wholesale— wholesaling real estate. Started in 2018. 18. So, um, yeah, so 6 years and, uh, loving it. It's had ups and downs, but that's the cool thing, you learn and you get better. So I've been doing— I've done hundreds of deals, over $2 million in wholesaling fees, and, uh, yeah, super excited. So that's who I am. And, uh, Nathan Payne, who the heck are you?

Yeah, man, good question. I, uh, I gotta work on my 30-second pitch, but, um, for me, man, how long have I been in real estate? I don't know, maybe like 4 or 5 years, if that. I was in analysis paralysis for like 2 years, like 2 to 3 years. I know it's terrible. Finally got started in real estate, did a deal, started working with a gentleman, you know, did over 100 contracts in a single year. Sounds really cool on paper, but guys, trust me, no one ever tells you guys the details, right? Yeah, it's cool doing a $67,000 deal, but not that cool when you've got $50,000, $60,000 in marketing expenses. So nobody talks about that stuff. So what we are is, guys, we, we want this to be as real as possible for you guys. Um, but luckily, um, man, since Nate, you and I got together, and since we've been doing kind of painless flipping and whatnot— guys, there's a point in my career to where I didn't think wholesaling worked. I was like, I was convinced. I was like, I've been at this for too long. I was like, it's not me. And, uh, thankfully, yeah, you and I got connected, man, and Things have been going very, very well since. So strategy is important, guys, and that's why we're doing this.

Exciting. We're about to do an $86K deal with zero marketing spend. Now that's exciting versus $86K deal with $80K spend, not exciting. Okay, and it happens all the time. So guys, that's who we are and our plan. What we're going to be doing today is showing you guys how I kind of came up with the painless flipping model, and it all started with the baby steps of reverse wholesaling. Okay, so painless flipping is not specifically reverse wholesaling, but a lot of people want to know what reverse wholesaling is. What the heck is that? What is reverse wholesaling real estate? That's what we're going to teach you guys, the step-by-step process of how to do it today. And we're going to make some calls to some buyers, we're going to make some calls to some— we're going to see how much time we have at the end, but you guys are going to be able to learn what the heck is— that's why I got my vibe board. I got my nice little board right here. We're going to teach you guys So that's the plan, and the promise is you guys are gonna see us get on some phone calls. We might get yelled at, we might not. We might make some connections, we might not. But that's why, uh, that's the promise we have, is every time we go live with you guys, we want to show you that we actually do this business, and we're not just a bunch of yappers who did a deal 5, 6 years ago and now just talk about it because we're selling a course. That's definitely not what we do. We actually are in the trenches, and some people don't want to be in the trenches, but It's actually kind of fun when you do an $86K deal and you're in the trenches. It's like, hey, that was worth being in the trenches, wasn't it? Exactly. So anyway, today let's, let's go over exactly why you're all here. And what you're going to learn today is what the heck is reverse wholesaling. And again, guys, it's not painless flipping. Painless flipping is not reverse wholesaling. It is a strategy we implement, but it's not specifically that. Painless flipping is, it's a whole acquisitions model. We don't have time time to get into it right now, but we do want to teach you guys what reverse wholesaling is. So Nate, what's, what's the first thing you do when you start reverse wholesaling? What is the heck— what the heck is reverse wholesaling, Nathan?

Yeah, yeah, good question. So guys, reverse wholesaling is step number 1: I am going to find buyers. I'm going to find buyers in my market that are looking for deals. I'm not going to talk to agents, I'm not going to talk to sellers, I'm not going to make a bunch of offers. Not yet. Step number 1 is I'm going to find buyers. And guys, the reason why that's so important, I'm going to let you in on a secret that nobody else talks about. There is a really popular saying in real estate that is the biggest lie ever told, and I guarantee you probably heard it. And I get triggered every single time I hear it because it's really common. And that lie, the biggest lie ever told in real estate, is, oh, if you find a good enough deal, the money or the buyer will find you. Guys, nothing could be further from the truth. And honestly, does anything in life really work that way? No. Just because I found it or just because you build it doesn't mean people will come, right? No, right? Kind of the whole concept behind reverse wholesaling. And again, painless flipping, we've kind of upgraded, like take the concept of reverse wholesaling and then put it on steroids.

It's freaking steroids, bro.

You know, steroid version, um, or TRT, whatever the kids are calling it nowadays.

Um, there's a lot, there's a lot of different terms these days. I don't know how, but so that's what it is. Testosterone, you got it, you name it.

Yeah, guys, one of the downsides is you do have to deal with our cheesy jokes, so apologize in advance, but But step 1, find buyers.

Find buyers. Exactly. So Nate, instead of just saying find buyers like we, you know, we could, let's, let's show them how. Let's show, because I want you guys to learn how you can find buyers. Now, Nate, how many ways is there to find buyers? You can find buyers like hundreds of ways. I would say hundreds, maybe I would say like 20, 20 like are really good. But I want to show you guys one of the strategies that Nathan Payne likes to do a lot is title companies. Okay, so right now what I'm going to show you guys is inside of our school academy that we, we, uh, we work with people in our academy. I'm going to just give you kind of an inside look. We have a list of title companies we like to reach out to in each state, and you can network because these are investor-friendly title companies. So while I pull that up, Nate, do you want to explain why you do that?

Yeah, yeah, guys, so title companies, the reason why I really like that as part of my strategy, and specifically local investor-friendly title companies. Don't go to Google and type in investor-friendly title companies Orlando or whatever your market is, because all that's going to pop up are these title companies that are national title companies. They're not really local title companies. We're looking for the local title companies that are like homegrown in your local market that you're working in. And the reason why is there's a lot of great ways we can find buyers, right? You know, we can look at pictures on properties that look like they were flipped and, you know, okay, this looks like an investor bought it. Or we can use, you know, some cool softwares and tools to pull lists of cash buyers and all that's great, but it's kind of just taking my best guess. Title companies. Title companies are the only people that are actually seeing who is— who are the real players in this market, who are the people actually closing deals every single week, every single month, right? And title companies, not only do they know who the real players are, who's actually closing deals, not only— where'd I go? Not only do title companies know who the real players are, but it's also in their best interest to connect you to them. Title companies, they make their money based off of closing deals. That's it, right? By when there's a buyer and there's a seller and they just handle the paperwork in between, that's when they make money. So when I call and I talk to a title company and my conversation is Hey, I'm new to this market. I'm really good at finding deals. I'm not really ready to start buying deals just yet. Do you happen to know any really experienced investors that you could connect me with? And that way, you know, when a really good deal comes across my desk, not something that I want to buy, but I'd love to be able to hand it off to them. And that way they can transact the property through you guys and you make money. They get a deal. I get to learn a little bit about the market and the process, and it's a win-win for everybody.

So, Nate, you're crushing it. You're crushing it. But I want to show people first, like, where to go. You're already hitting on the script and I love it. I think we should actually— you're— yeah, I think we should actually go into that, what they should say, because, you know, when we're talking about reverse wholesaling, you got to start with the buyer, right? And then it goes into finding the deal. But you're crushing it. So let's, let's actually— let me show you guys. So right here in our, in our school academy where we have like a bunch of the courses and things that we've learned over the years to do thousands well, actually over 4,000 deals, uh, including Brad Chandler, me, and you. We've been able to combine— we've learned a lot, right? And what we have here, you know, obviously we're gonna— I'm gonna show you two ways that you can get buyers, but this is one of the ways. If you click here, you go— we, we give you investor-friendly, uh, title companies all over the United States that have been recommended. And, um, you know, you basically can just— depending on what state you're at, you just call the title company and you reach out to them. Now that's one, that's like the fast track way. That's the fastest way to do it. Now you can also go to Facebook groups. We're not going to dive too deep into the Facebook groups, but you can go to Facebook groups or real estate investor groups, and you can also search and look for title companies and you'll see which ones are actively in there. So those are the two. So you either, you obviously there's lists. These are ones that obviously we provide, but, um, you know, you can do Facebook groups. Now, Nate, you were saying Once you get the title company, we're talking about how. Now I was going to kind of go to the next step of like, okay, now deals. So let's actually scratch that. Let's go into teaching and showing you guys what the heck do you say once you get, you find it, right? Because we're here on the how and we're diving into title companies right now. Now, what do we say? And you were kind of hitting on that already. So you want to elaborate on that again?

Yeah, yeah, because I sped over it quick, but there's a few really key things that we want to be saying on on that conversation. So when we call the title company, first thing they do, pick up the phone. Yeah, how can I help you? Right. First thing I'm saying to them is, hey, my name is Nathan Payne Payne. I was calling for two reasons. One, because I'm an investor, I'm new to this market, and I was wondering if you guys work with investors right now. If you did your homework properly, right, and you're calling a local investor-friendly title company, Their answer every time should be, yes. Oh my gosh, we love investors. 99% of our deals come from wholesalers, blah, blah, blah.

Right.

And they'll go on and on and they'll go on for like a 10-minute rant telling you how much they love investors. They do creative deals, they do this, they do that. And it's really nice because you're like, oh, this is an easy conversation.

Yeah, right.

Not too bad. Then from there I say, okay, great. The second part of my question, um, that I had is, uh, like I said, I'm new to this market, and you know, there's, there's— whenever I'm new to a market, there's a lot of nuances, uh, you know, there's always new things with each market that, you know, take some time to learn. I'm really good at getting things set up to where I get a lot of deals coming across my desk.

Okay.

But Because I'm new to this market, even if it's a good deal, probably not something I'm going to want to buy myself. Not yet anyways. But what I'd love to do is I was wondering if— are there any investors in particular that you work with that, you know, an experienced flipper or, you know, buy and hold investor, someone that you might be able to connect me with so that when I do get that good deal across my desk, it's not something I'm necessarily looking to buy just yet, but I'd love to be able to hand it off to that investor. And that way he can transact the property through you. I get, you know, he gets the deal. I get to learn a little bit about the market in the process. And it's a win-win for everyone. And then pause right now. You guys want to know this secret, secret sauce? Like the real, real secret sauce. This is a question that the title company will likely bring up. And when you talk to buyers, that they will bring up. Guys, this is the secret sauce. I just want to prep you for that. Get ready for the sauce, people, because this is the difference between somebody calling and saying everything that I just said. And then when I call and I say everything that I just said, When they ask this question, the way I answer this is what makes or breaks whether this works or not. At some point when you're talking to the title company or the buyer, they will likely say, oh, are you a wholesaler?

Now, guys, happens all the time in today's day and age.

When somebody asks that question, there is a bucket with all these assumptions Right. And when they say, oh, oh, are you, are you a wholesaler? When they're asking that question, they're assuming all of these things about you. And so what do I say when they say, when the title company goes, oh, are you a wholesaler? I say no. Yeah, we're not lying. Because what I say is I say no, no. If, if by wholesaler, you know, you know, if you're asking me, do I do assignments and double close, you know, Yeah, absolutely. But if you're asking me, oh, am I a wholesaler that, you know, just gets a bunch of trash properties under contract and inflates ARVs and then, you know, tells people that it's a $5,000 rehab when it's a full gut job, you know, no. If you're asking me if I'm a wholesaler like that, no, no. Do I do assignments and double closes? Yes, absolutely. But no, I'm I'm not one of those guys. I'm not one of those guys that does all of that and then, you know, just blasts it out to a list of 10,000 people.

That's our difference. That's our competitive edge. We're, we're not just— we don't just— our model is not just send out deals and just cross our fingers and hope we get lucky. That's not how we roll.

And then I continue. I say, for me, I said, for me, I, I do things very differently. I do things— I'm much more relationship-based. So for me, when I'm new to a market, I really just look for my core group of people that I know, like, and trust and that I can do repeat business with again and again. Pause, guys. When you say that— and guys, I say that exactly how I just said it on this camera. If you guys watch my 30-day challenge that I did February of last year, you'll know that that's exactly what I would say. When I would talk with a title company. And the thing is, is they're making all these assumptions. And when you say no and then you say all the things that they are assuming in their head, right? That's, that's really what we're doing. We're just listing all the assumptions that they're thinking and we're saying, no, I'm not one of those people that does X, Y, Z, right? And I'm saying I'm actually one of these people that's the complete opposite. What it does, it kind of breaks their pattern and you'll hear a change in their tone. Most of the time they're like, huh? And they're like, this is interesting. And they kind of have this moment to where they're like, okay, this person's different. And that's exactly the reaction that we want. And that's to where they will connect you with their top buyers. And again, guys, we're not looking for a million buyers. You don't need a million buyers. Not all, not all buyers are created equal. We don't need a million buyers. We just want the best ones. And again, who's going to have the relationship to the best buyers? Because typically the best buyers aren't easy to find. You got to find them through a relationship.

That's right.

Nate, you want to keep going or was there a point you wanted to make?

No, that was good. That was good. So I hope everybody that's watching this understands. So like, I've had a lot of people call title companies and they're like, it didn't work. And me and you have gone back and forth today about things that work and do not work, right? Just from our experience. But I've had a lot of people and I know how their calls are going, right? And I've actually heard some too where they call like, hey, I'm a wholesaler, can you connect me with your top cash buyer? That person's like, no, no. And usually another problem they have with title companies is they'll call the front desk and there's usually like a gatekeeper, like in any office, there's someone that just works the front office and they'll talk to them. That's not who you're trying to talk to. You're trying to talk to the escrow officer, trying to talk to the person that closes the deals, not the person at the front, right? So just make sure that you're not, hey, I'm calling, I was wondering if I could work with any of your top buyers. They don't know in the front and they're not going to give you anybody. You want to talk to the main people that are doing deals. And that cool thing about using Facebook is you're able to find those people usually in those groups because their names are said. But anyway, great job, Nathan. You got— you gave a very detailed script, which is good. I tried to write as much as I could down. Uh, but guys, that's why this video is recorded for you guys so you can listen to this and rewatch it. When you make those calls, you want to make sure you're, you're coming off professional. Now, now, if you haven't done a deal and you're a little intimidated by calling title companies, let me tell you, this is the least intimidating part of wholesaling real estate. Try calling sellers who don't want to talk to you. These title companies want to talk to you. They want your business. So there's nothing intimidating. If you call and they say no, That's okay. Just try again. Try another title company. You're going to be fine. Call maybe in a couple other days. They won't remember you. So don't worry. Don't be intimidated. That's all I got to say about that. But anyway, so Nathan, now we have many calls, guys. If any of you are interested in hearing what that conversation sounds like, we have many calls that we recorded of us talking to title companies and getting their buyers. I have many from my 30-day challenge. Nate, I know you got a lot, but let's kind of fast forward. Let's say we call title companies in Utah, for example, and we find 3, let's say 3 cash buyers, and they all are buying in a specific area. Let's hop to the next step about reverse wholesaling because we've kind of really killed that, that horse. We've smashed, we've beaten that dead horse about finding the buyer. There's so many more guys, but really work with title companies, ask these questions, use that. Now let's go on to step number 2 of reverse wholesaling. You found the buyers, you've got their criteria, right? You've asked those questions. Where do you find those deals? That's where we're going to dive into Privy right now. All right, Nate. So do you want to share your screen or do you want me to share it and kind of give it an idea of where you would start looking for, for buyers? I can do it if you're—

if you can't, it might work better on yours.

Okay, so let me, let me just do it. Does anybody have any questions in the, in the— that's watching? And to answer anything for you guys. We want you guys to take action. And our hope is, you know, hopefully we can do deals. You know, maybe, maybe your buyers that you have, the ones that you develop relationships with, maybe they're not the perfect for the deal that you find. Maybe we might have some right buyers. That's the great thing about networking and doing deals together is this deal that we're doing, the $86K, it's very possible that someone might not have been able to find that buyer that we have. I would say it's 900, like 99% possible because this is a unicorn. But Nate, it happens all the time, right? Like there's buyers, there's outliers out there too.

The last, I mean, literally the last 3 deal, almost every deal that we do feels like that. Um, the last deal was a buyer that was, um, able to pay basically twice, um, what most people were offering at as far as a down payment. Deal before that, buyer was able to offer like $100,000 more than, than what most other people were offering at. And guys, it's not because it's like, ah, well, there's a sucker born every minute. No, guys, these buyers are really experienced guys. They do a lot of deals, and it's just for whatever reason on those specific deals, that's, you know, they're just able to pay a lot more than, than everybody else. And guys, that happens all the time. All the time. And sometimes there's going to be people to where they might be on the same list, right? I might talk to the same buyer that you talk to, but you might have a better relationship with that buyer than me. And so you might be able to get them to come up on their offer more than I would or get them to take a serious look at the deal.

It is—

there is so much more that comes to working with buyers than just, oh, I just need to build an email list and blast it out. That used to work 5, 10 years ago, guys. That, that does not work well today. Um, what Kits Deals has done today is relationships. And so that's what we're really big on, that's what we focus on, and that's why I encourage you guys to do.

All right, so let's go. So we're fast forwarding. We called the title company, we were able to network, and we found, we found 3 cash buyers there, and we kind of know exactly what they're looking for. All right, so what we like to do is we like to use Privy. Okay, if you don't know what Privy is, it's where you can find on-market deals that cost you absolutely no money to leverage and network with people that are on market. When you start doing deals that are off-market, you— yes, you have to skip trace, you have to pull lists, but with Privy, it's just straight. You can go look for deals and you can make calls to real estate agents. Okay, so I have a specific buyer that I've networked with. I've asked his criteria, asked him where does he buy. He says he buys on the east side of this highway right here, which is— let's see what the What the heck it's called? You know what, I can't remember because it's North Ogden, it's northern Utah. But anyway, it's a highway right here, South Highway blah blah blah blah blah. All right, so he says, I buy in Ogden in this area over here, guys, on the east side of the highway. So I set Privy's filters. I just said, hey, Privy, find me some freaking fix and flip deals, and then you can zoom in, zoom out where you need to go. So I can see on this side what opportunities are available on the east side of the highway. Okay, so let's take a look at some of these. This is 385, and sometimes it doesn't always— like, the algorithm, the way that Privy has, because Utah's a non-disclosure, doesn't always work perfectly. But let's take a look. All right, so this one looks like maybe they tried to get it going a little juicy, like, but then it's older kitchen. It definitely looks like it may— they maybe started a rehab, but they didn't finish it. As you can see, it's like, it's okay, right? Can you vibe in that, Nate? You seen the pictures?

Yep.

So I would just call the agent and I would just be transparent, be like, hey, look, I'm looking at the deal, I'm looking for a flip. And it looks like this one, maybe they started. Is this— is this an opportunity that maybe I potentially, you know, flip? Is the seller looking for a cash offer? Are they looking for you know, to get the most they can. They're just going to wait until they get like a full price offer. It says it's been on the market for 4 days, so this one isn't something that's just like they're going to be dying. Maybe, you never know the situation, you got to call, but let's continue to look over here. So there's another one, $325,000. Okay, look at this one, guys. I don't know what's going on there. They didn't just— I don't know. Maybe someone's greasy head. Anyway, that sort of reminds me of someone's greasy shoulder or head just hitting up, you know. Anyway, not updated, older cabinets. Dude, that red, that's an ugly red, maroon or whatever. So anyway, what I would do is I would— you can see the price has been lowered over here, but what we would do at this point is you find the deal, you call the agent, and you would kind of you see if you can make a deal happen. Now, if I bring this deal— Nate, tell me what you don't want to do. Do you don't want to just take this lead and bring it to your buyer without calling? So let's dive into that, because this is— let's— we have 2 leads that we can call on, okay? I'm not going to say they're going to be 100% a deal, but that's what the power of calling and negotiating and talking about is. But Nate, what, what's the step we have here? What's the next step we got?

Yeah, guys, so I'm going to say the most important thing when you're working with your buyers, do not— exactly what Nathan Payne just said— do not just, oh, here's the listing, you know, is this a deal that you'll— oh, what can you pay? Guys, that is the bare, bare minimum. We've got to put in some work, right? Do the legwork. I'm going to call the agent, right? I'm going to have a negotiation. I'm going to see what's the situation, what's going on, what's the lowest offer someone would be willing to take or they would be willing to consider. Right. I'm also going to take a quick look at, you know, based on comps and stuff, do I feel like that lowest price— does it— does this feel like it's even close to a deal or close to an opportunity? And only if the answer to that is yes, this seems like it is close to a deal or close to an opportunity. I'm gonna bring it to my buyers.

You, you provide absolute no value, absolutely no value if you just give them the lead, the listing, and say, hey, because they can just call it, they don't need you. But if I go to them and I, and I, you know, I've called the agent, I'm actually gonna call this agent right here, guys, so everyone can watch it live. But if I call this agent and I get the price and I find out that they're willing to take $295,000 or less than the listing price, now we have something worth bringing to my buyer. But if I just I just bring that listing and just hope that they'll tell me what price. Again, so I'm away, I'm wasting their time. I'm not giving them any value. But if I bring it to them at $295,000 and I say, hey, look, I'm talking to the agent, they're willing to take around $295,000, I got to make at least $5-10K on this thing, would you be able to pay $310,000 for this? $305,000? Uh, $300,000? Um, if I can get it a little bit lower, that's value, right? Because they're like, oh yeah, let me take a look at that. Now Nate, why would they not— why, why would they still work with you if you brought this? You don't have it under contract. Why, why would they still work with us?

Yeah, guys, and this is where we're talking about some stuff when it comes to painless flipping, right? So, uh, reverse wholesaling, there's definitely some synergy there, but there's some really, really key distinctions as to what makes painless flipping that, that 2.0. Ultimately, what painless flipping is in one sentence We flip the house before we even make the offer. And you're probably wondering, Nate, that doesn't even make sense. Trust me. Trust me. It will. So buyers, again, relationships, right? Relationships get everything done. When I chat with the buyer, 9 times out of 10, I do not have something under contract, right? Because what is the number one question every single person has in the real estate industry? I don't care if you're a wholesaler. I don't care if you're looking to do your first deal. I don't care if you've done hundreds of deals. Every single person, whether you're a wholesaler, a fix and flipper, a buy and hold landlord doing commercial real estate, everybody has the same question, which is, is it a deal? Every single person is wondering, is it a deal? And guys, with wholesaling, Right. Traditional wholesaling, which I cannot stand. Right. It's outdated. It's just bad. It doesn't work. Traditional wholesaling says, oh, do 70% times ARV minus repairs. Right. They say, oh, just use this formula to calculate if something's a deal. Guys, it doesn't work that way. I cannot possibly use the same formula to calculate if something's a deal for every single property in every single market. For every single buyer in the entire U.S. It don't work that way. Right. But that's the silver lining. That's where there's opportunity for you and me. So the reason why is because every market is different. Every buyer is different because I can chat with one buyer and he's looking to buy the house, move into it himself, fix it up, sell it. I've got a second guy. He's looking to buy the house. He's got his own crews that are going to fix it up and sell it. I've got a third guy to where he listened to one episode of BiggerPockets and he went out and got all premium subcontractor quotes and he's telling me, you know, oh, the rehab's twice what I think it is and I'm absolutely crazy. And he's looking to fix it up and sell it. You guys, I'm just making a joke. I love BiggerPockets, right? And lastly, I've got a fourth guy to where not only does he have his own crews, But because he does so many flips in volume a year, he buys materials in bulk at a massive discount and he can do that same rehab project for a fraction of the cost of anybody else. And that's not including, well, what if somebody is analyzing it as a rental? What if someone's looking to turn it into an Airbnb? What if someone's looking to rent it out by the room? What if someone's looking to turn it into an assisted living facility? What if— you guys get my point. Whether it's a deal or not a deal is going to depend on who I'm talking to and what a deal is for them. So take the formula, take that, throw it out the window. All right. Because that, that will, that will mess things up more than anything. What I'm looking for is, is this an opportunity? Is there a good discount here? And then from there, I'm going to look for buyers and say, hey, where would you need to be at?

And so that's where we're going to bring it to that because Real quick, I just want to reiterate, is it an opportunity? Look, it's not that you need it exactly at the right price immediately, right? You need— I mean, look at this deal that we're looking at right now. It's been on the market for 70 days. There's an opportunity there. Okay. There's something going on and we can find out what it is and bring it to a buyer who's buying in the area. Now, we don't need— if we went in there at 70%, like Nate's saying, yeah, the guy's probably going to just laugh and say, come on. No way. Anyway, keep going.

Yeah, guys. And so the big thing is, is I'm not going to call and say, I'm this big, you know, cash buyer, I can offer this price. No, because I don't even know if that's a deal. Right. And he might, you know, if I were to do 70%, he's probably going to laugh me off the phone. Right. And buyers typically can pay more than whatever 70% is. Right. Of whatever I think the ARV is. Again, it's subjective, guys. So what I need to do is I don't know if something's a deal. And guys, if you've been wholesaling, if you've been watching YouTube videos, if you've been making calls or offers, or even if you've just gone on Redfin or Zillow and just kind of run some numbers on a deal, guys, what's 99.999% of wholesaling? You look at a deal or you talk to a seller and whatever, and you run the numbers and you're like, it might be a deal if the ARV is here and the rehab is only this much, but it might not be a deal if the ARV is only here and the rehab is really this much. Meaning it depends, right? Whether it's a deal or not, it depends on who we're talking to. So rather than me wasting all this time trying to calculate and use a formula and all that—

yeah, notice I haven't even ran the numbers on this deal yet.

Let me just talk to the person that's going to be buying it and say, hey, I believe this is an opportunity. Here's all these details. What price would you need it at? So that's what we do.

That's right. So, Nate, but let's make it— let's make it concise for everybody. Obviously, we're not calling the buyer yet. We're not going to call the buyer and say, where would you need this to be at? We're verifying that this is even an opportunity by calling the agent to see if this is something that there's enough— like, there's enough— when I say opportunity, that means that there's, there's motivation. On price, they're willing to flex. There's their timeline that they need to sell quickly or they need to sell in like a shorter amount of time. And what else is there? So there's price, motivation. What else is there? Price, motivation, timeline.

Price, timeline, motivation, and condition.

Condition. That's right. And the condition. And the condition of this house right here is it needs work, right? So that's what we're looking for. So when everyone's saying— when you're saying, hey, we're not going to— we're going to ask our buyer again, we're only asking if we find that there's an opportunity involved, right, with the 4 pillars. I always forget the condition one. I don't know why, because I usually am not really too interested in the condition. It's more of like the situation, the motivation. So anyway, I'm going to call this guy because I promised you guys, like we did in the— when we did the intro, we showed you— we told you who we were. I said, this is the plan. Our promise is we always make calls in our lives, okay? So we're going to call this guy.

You want me to call him?

It's up to you. What do you want?

You want to call him, bro? I love calling. I love calling.

I love calling too, dude. All right, you can call him.

You can take it if you want it.

No, it's all right, you got it.

So guys, we're just fighting. We're fighting each other over here for these deals. You send me in Discord the address, keep copy and pasting it.

Um, actually, since we are in, um, what's it called, StreamYard. I can just send it to you in a little chat right here. Let me see. See where it says on the far right, private chat? I just put the privy link. Do you see it? Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's an office number, but I don't usually like to call the office number.

No, no, absolutely not. So guys, what we do is— I'm just bringing this up here real quick. So, so let's, let's walk through these steps real quick.

Sorry, it didn't pop up.

Nah.

Okay, hold on. So just so you guys are following along with what we're doing, because we're literally doing a step-by-step of reverse wholesaling right here in a quick condensed version. So step number 1, you obviously got to pick your market. So we would say pick a market that you, you know, it doesn't have to be local. It just has to be, have flipper activity. And that's another thing with Privy, it shows where all the flips are going. If it's in a major metro, there's, there's usually tons of buyers, right? But tons of flippers. So we'll just say that. So you pick a market, you find buyers, and right now we're showing you guys how to use title companies. You get title companies, you get buyers, you network, you find buyers, you find out where they're buying, you go to Privy, you filter for fix and flips, and you start looking for deals that look like there's, you know, discounted. It looks like they've been on the market for quite a bit. They don't always have to be on the market for quite a bit. But that usually helps you when you're calling. And the condition looks like they need some, need some work. You, you call them. We're about to do it right now. We're calling and we're going to find out more information. If we find that there's an opportunity here, then we bring it to our buyer and we say to the buyer, hey, I'm in negotiations. This is where I think we can get it. Where would you need to be for this to be a deal for you? Okay. Does that all make sense? Those are all the steps. All right. I can write them down again, but I think you guys got it. All right, Nate, you got the— you got the agent? You got the number?

Uh, I do. I'm just looking at the notes real quick. So guys, one thing, um, yeah, don't ever call the office number. What we do is when using Privy, I'm just going to take the listing agents, or even if you see it on Redfin or Zillow, whatever, copy the name and the brokerage that they have listed there for the listing agent, paste it into Google And then typically right there, the person's name and, um, will pop up with a link on like to realtor.com or whatnot to their personal page with their cell phone number listed. That's what we want to call. So let's call up Melissa here.

So before you call, what's the first thing— all right, I'm just gonna write down what you do. Hi, you've reached Melissa Hernandez with— Come on, Melissa.

So, Nate, how many times you call twice?

It's 2 to 3 calls. Bro, agents never answer their phones. I don't know how they have jobs.

Hi, you've reached Melissa Hernandez.

All right guys, so what, what I would typically do is every time— I never, never, never only call once. Like literally never call twice, leave a voicemail, send a text message. I typically— I didn't do it here because we're just calling one time, but on the day-to-day, call once. If there's no answer, I immediately redial, right? If there's no answer, I would then leave a voicemail and then immediately I would send a text message, right? And the voicemail, really simple, short and sweet. Hey Melissa, this is Nathan Payne. I was calling about a listing of yours. Give me a call back when you get the chance.

Thanks.

Bye.

Right. Upbeat tone. Sound nice, like a friendly person to chat with. Also keeping it vague. I'm not saying what address, not saying why I'm calling. I'm not saying I'm an investor. I'm saying, hey, I'm calling about a listing of yours. Give me a call back when you get a chance.

Thanks.

Bye.

Right. What that does is that builds curiosity, right? I want her wondering, wait, what listing are they calling me about? Is it that mansion that, like, I just listed and, oh my gosh, we're going to make so much money? Or is it, oh, that headache property that's been listed for 60 days and I can't sell it, right? We don't want her to know.

So I call this real quick the 3-piece combo: call, text, voicemail. And if you want to throw a 4-piece combo, you can email them if you got that email.

So yeah, hit them with 3-piece. So hit them with 3-piece, right? Call, call, text, voicemail. And then the text message, really simple. Hey Melissa, it's Nathan. Um, I just left you a voicemail, was reaching out about, um, um, a listing of yours. Call me when you get a chance.

Right now, Nate, let me say something super quick. Now, for all of you that might have worked up all your, your gumption, all your, your energy, and all your, uh, your, uh, your excitement to make one call and they don't answer, you ain't done. It ain't over. You just started. So don't think like it's, it's over. You guys take that momentum. Don't stop. Make that next call.

Yeah, guys. And I also want to make very clear, when I call, I'm doing all, all 3 of those things. I'm calling twice, I'm leaving a voicemail, I'm sending a text message. But then I am repeating that process. Like if it's a lead, right? Or if I think, okay, this house might be an opportunity, right, where I want to call and find out more information. I'm going to repeat this same process like an hour from now, if that. Right. Like, I will do this 2 to 3 times in a single day until the person calls or texts me back. Usually by the second, typically by the third time, you will at least get a text message. Right. And I know a lot of you might feel like, oh my gosh, Nate, you do that 2 to 3 times in a single day. Yes, guys, they're agents. They get paid by selling the home. The funny thing is you are not bothering them, right? If anything, it demonstrates that you are serious, right? And it demonstrates that you're a professional. You're here to get a job done. I'm not here to call somebody one time, then wait a week and be like, oh, they never called me back. No, we're wholesalers, we're investors. We are assertive. All right. We get the job done.

Wholesaler, bro. All right, let me call this, this lead. This is another one I found. Now, look, this has been on the market for 40 days.

I love it.

And it doesn't look like terrible. It looks like it's, you know, someone could move in, but it's obviously not selling. I think it's overpriced. But a lot of the time when I call, I'm just trying to find out the situation, right? Like, is there something there? And I'll tell the agent that as well. Like, I'm very transparent. Like, in order for you to— a fix and flipper to get a deal, it's got to be low. That's just how it is. It's got to be low. So when they're— when you tell them, hey, I'm looking to flip it, it's not like they're going to be surprised by what you're like— the conversation where it's going. They're going to be like, no, no, no, we've already gotten a lot of offers. We've been denied. Like, the seller is just bubble. Like, they're going to wait. So don't be afraid to just like just, hey, look, you already know what I'm doing anyway. So me and Nate have different styles, but, uh, you know, I think the most important thing is just dialing, smiling, and just doing it. Because so many people overthink this, and it's like, hey, you just need to make some freaking calls, buddy. You just need to do it. So we're going to call on this lead right here. Uh, we got Tiffany Howe.

Bro, it'd actually be hilarious if she just like ripped you apart. She's like right there, what are you doing, Colin?

I'm ready to get ripped, dude. Rip me up, boy. Okay, hold on, guys.

We like, we like to have fun. We like to joke around.

Okay, hold on. Come on, Tiffany, don't make me look bad. Hello? Hey Tiffany, how are you? Good. Hey Tiffany, my name is Nathan Payne Payne Payne. I'm just calling about the listing you have in Ogden. Do you have some time to talk about it?

Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. So the number showed up as Georgia. I was waiting for you to try to sell me something.

Oh, you're, you're waiting for what?

For you to try to sell me something.

I can tell them you want to buy— you want to buy something?

I don't know.

Yeah, no. Um, yeah, I grew up in Atlanta, so, uh, still haven't changed my phone number. I know that probably doesn't probably I do, I do. But, um, yeah, no, I, I appreciate that. So let me— I just want to cut to the chase. I know you've probably gotten a lot of calls on this thing. It's— it looks like it's been listed for 40 days plus, is that right?

Yeah, and then before me it was listed with someone. Um, I actually had a showing last night.

Oh, okay.

They called me today. I've had quite a bit of showings.

Good, good beginning.

And then it phased out with the interest rates, you know.

Can you believe it? Seriously?

The showing last night, they called me today and said they're considering an offer.

And okay, so, so, so it's good, right?

Yeah.

Yeah. So you think it'll be done then? Because I'm, I'm an investor, right? I'm looking for opportunities to fix and flip. And I'm assuming if this has been on the market for 40 days, the sellers have probably been getting hit with some, you know, investor offers and that they've just denied, I'm assuming.

Yeah, we've had a few.

So is— because I'm looking at it, it looks like a little outdated, and you know, it's something that I definitely would be interested in flipping. But, um, do you, do you feel like the, the sellers are in a position where they would accept a cash offer that was lower to just get it done, or do you think they're just gonna wait?

They're gonna probably just wait because they're not even in a super rush because they're going to be purchasing too. So, okay, they want to roll over what they can and with the interest rates with them too. If, you know, it's got to be the right—

100%. Yeah, yeah. When I make calls, when I make calls to properties that are listed, it's mainly like, okay, is this something that is going to make sense for the seller? Because sometimes sellers are motivated, sometimes they're not. And you know how it is with— I don't know if you invest at all, but you got to get them steep for it to even make sense these days.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Oh, for sure, for sure, for sure. I will keep your number though, and then if something happens and they decide, hey, let's just get rid of it so we can move on, I can reach out to you.

Yeah, I'd love that. And do you by chance run into any, you know, opportunities or fix and flips like this, like properties that would be good opportunities to fix and flip, or do you mainly—

I haven't in a minute. Mostly like what I've been doing is just I really love working with first-time homeowners and then I in turn end up helping them this time around.

So that's great.

Yeah, so it's been actually really good and fun.

I love it.

Your mom and do it all at the same time.

I love it. That's what I like to hear. Well, as, um, one last thing I'll ask you, do you, do you have an idea? I know you can't tell me exactly, but do, have they, do the sellers have an idea of like the lowest they would accept if it was cash, or like, or not really?

And like, I have a question about lowering the price. You know how we do, just even $2,000. They keep refreshing it on the MLS and like, we're good for a minute. So yeah, they're not super motivated to unleash it really quick.

So gotcha. So anything under like $300,000, under $400,000, like a $350,000, $360,000 would be a slap in the face. It would offend them.

And yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

I don't think no reason to offend them. You know, they're probably having a nice night tonight. You know, we don't want to upset them.

Yeah, for sure.

Yeah.

Thanks.

Okay. Well, you have a great night. I appreciate you taking the call. Um, bye-bye. All right, bye. That's it. That's what I do. Um, nothing crazy. And the thing is, like, guys, agents know what we're doing, in my opinion. Like, they know. Look, for— if I ran the numbers for me to flip this, not just one of our buyers that we reach out to, but for me, I'd probably need this at $300,000. I think the ARV, without looking at it, is probably $450,000. They're probably asking for literally so close to what the retail is. That for me to fix it, do the bathrooms, do all this stuff, I would need like an $80,000, $100,000 spread after fixing it up, hard money. So guys, you don't have to be shy about it. If you flip a property, you got to get it low for it to— for there to be spread for you to take on that risk. Get your wholesale fee if you're wholesaling it. But even as a flipper, you need a great deal. So I think approaching agents openly about that It's the best way to do it. Not— don't tiptoe and just be like, hey, look, I'm trying to get a great deal here. You want to help me out?

Yeah, yeah, I— we definitely have different styles, but the funny thing is, is, guys, the one that works is the one that makes the call. All right, I cannot stress that enough. It is like different style, you know, does this— are some ways more effective than others? Sure, there's an argument that can be made there one way or the other. But I promise you, making calls is far, far, far more important than being really good, not doing anything with it. Right. So that's the most important thing to take away. And then also, I want to— what are the pro pro tips, guys? Did you see how he felt out a lower offer without making an offer? Right. Hey, Ms. Agent, got it. So, you know, it's been listed or they're not motivated. Okay, got it. So like, if an offer was around like $350,000, $360,000, that'd be like a total slap in the face, right? And she's like, yeah, right. He could have been witty and came with a comeback like, well, my offer would have been a punch in the gut.

No, but mine would have been way lower than that.

What most people do— and guys, it's kind of like a little difference, but it changes the whole dynamic, right? The conversation she has, she's like, yeah, right. And she's laughing. And then we politely get off the phone versus if I'm like, yeah, Ms. Agent, okay, got it. They're not, they're not motivated. They're not interested in selling for a low offer. They've already denied other cash investors and they want full asking price. I can offer $320,000. That doesn't go over well, guys.

That doesn't work, right?

Because imagine the same thing. It's like, imagine how you feel when you're having a conversation with someone. And it's like, did you not hear anything that we just spoke about? You know, they're like— she's like, I told you, like, it sounds like you're not listening to me. That's how that translates to the other person, right? And that's why people get upset because they're like, dude, you're not listening to me, right? And so that's why we didn't even make a formal offer. There's no need to. And guys, I'm so far against like, oh, just make offers. Guys, they use quality over quantity, right? You don't need to make 100 offers a week.

Yeah, we had a CRM that would just send out letter of intents and offers, and we actually still use it, but like, it doesn't— just making low offers doesn't work. It's— it doesn't work. Maybe it'll get someone to respond and be like, hey, your offer sucks, and then you can have a conversation. That's honestly what I would use it for, is just to get agents to respond, but it does not work in my opinion. For the amount of work that goes into it, first, like, it's not worth it, guys.

And the other thing is, like, it starts a relationship off really poorly, right? So the thing is, is we're looking for, is this an opportunity, right? Like, is there a problem that we can solve here? And is there an opportunity as an investor to add value to this property? Those are the two primary things that I look for when I'm, when I'm looking at a deal, talking to a seller, talking to an agent, talking to whoever. Is there an opportunity for us to add value? Right. If it's fully renovated, needs absolutely nothing, that's going to be a really brief conversation for me because there's just— there's not much an investor can do. And there, there isn't very often a house that needs zero work and they're willing to sell for a really low price for it to make sense for an investor. Just, it doesn't happen too often.

Nate, I will say all the subject toers out there are going to be coming at my neck. Why didn't you offer subterms?

Oh my gosh.

Yeah, if there was motivation behind there, guys, like if there was like— I know how to do that. I've done subject to. I own some properties on subject to. It's more of like if she was like, they really need to sell, uh, it's just, you know, this and this and this, they can't, they can't go lower, their mortgage is here, or But there was, it was more of like, hey, they're just going to chill. So, you know, for me, it doesn't really trigger like an opportunity where I'm like, okay, let's go into the weeds here. Yeah.

If you guys want to waste 2 hours of your day and then another 2 hours and like another 2 hours, just say, oh, well, if I'm able to pay their price, can I get terms? Just say that and then say goodbye to like the next 6 hours.

Yeah, right.

Of explaining that and all to find out, oh no, they're, they're not interested. So that's a side conversation. But the key is, guys, you don't need to be making insulting offers, right? I say this time and time and time and time again, and I got this from Alex Hormozi. Best analogy I've ever heard. Sales— making an offer, making an offer should be like proposals. Now, there's exceptions to every rule, but most of the time when somebody proposes, they typically know what the answer is going to be. Making offers should be the same way. I should not just be making offers and having no clue. I don't know if this is going to work or not. If I am, I'm not doing it right. Right. When I make an offer, I should be pretty certain that I know what the answer is going to be.

The people that propose and don't know, I don't know what's going on in their heads. They obviously aren't in a relationship that's probably going to work if they don't know a yes or no. But okay, so, Nate, you know, we're coming to the end of the call. We've had a great time. We've gone over a lot. We've gone pretty in-depth on specific topics. And I've actually learned that there's, you know, there's actually like many different ways to go about reverse wholesaling. So you really have to just niche down and pick which one you want to do. Whether that's finding opportunities that are off market, on market. You want to find buyers through Rias or Rias or local meetups, or if you want to go to title companies. The fact of the matter, like what you have to do is you just got to take action like we did. And just talking about it, we were able to call on 2 properties. You know, we already have the buyer, so we didn't get the buyers on this call. But guys, that's how you do it. And it's— that's how you learn. That's how I learned. You got to take action. If you just— Watch videos. Nathan, you said you were in analysis paralysis for like 2 years. Um, like, for me, I'm the opposite. I just do stuff and I get crushed and it's painful, but it's all good. Like, but that's, you know, people have their different ways of learning. If you want to prepare, watch this, take action. Don't just watch this and be like, oh, that's good information. Try it, it'll work. Okay, and then you can come to us. Obviously, we're, we're helping people in our academy, people we work with, and if you go to painlessflipping.com, you can check out how we're helping people. We actually give over like $20,000 of free gifts, stuff that I've paid for, that we paid for, we give away so you guys can take action. But let's go over the steps of reverse wholesaling just to wrap up this call so everyone knows what they learned today. And let's actually talk about what we talked about on the call because I have the notes over here, but it is all over the place. So we're going to rewrite it. So number one, Nate, What was the first thing we talked about today?

Finding buyers.

Okay, and when we found buyers— okay, let me actually write up here, reverse. Man, you can see that. I was going to say it's kind of big, but I think it's fine, right?

Yeah, it's all good.

All right, all right. Okay, I'm going to do it again. All right, so we got reverse. What is reverse wholesaling real estate? Okay. Can you see that pretty good?

Yep.

Okay. So the first thing you do is you— number one is you find buyers, correct?

That's right.

So what did we do to find buyers today on this call? We talked about title companies, right? And you went over a script. And how to make that call, right?

Yep. Yep.

And then number 2, what's— what do you do once you find the buyer? What do we do?

Start finding opportunities.

That's right. Find opportunities. And what did we do today to find those opportunities? Privy, right?

Yep. Yep.

Now, what happens if you don't have Privy? Privy's like $97 or $150 a month. What if you don't have that? What can you do to find those kind of opportunities on the MLS?

Yeah, guys, the great thing about MLS and working with agents is you can find them for free, right? So you can use Zillow, you can use Redfin, a lot of great tools.

All right, so the MLS. So we found opportunities and we use Privy. The next thing we did is we just freaking called. Okay, we didn't do— Nate, did you run any comps on those ones you called? Did you waste any time on any of that?

No, that's such a good point. I'm glad you brought that up, guys. So many people will spend an hour, like, and this is where the, the— it just goes wrong with just sending out offers. People will waste an hour to 2 hours comping and estimating rehab and all this stuff and putting together an offer and then sending it on something that in 2 minutes you could have found out, okay, this isn't even remotely close to an opportunity, right? And that's why, guys, just getting on the phone is so much easier because you cut out all of that waste, right? And that's what I see crushes people. You know, do you want it to take a year to do your first deal, or do you want to do it in the next 30 to 45 days? Right. Don't waste— you know, if you want to take a year, spend time and thoroughly try to comp out and find out ARV on every single property, and then you have— and then, you know, look at like, oh, what's the job growth and market can— right now we want to throw all that out the window. Let me just get on the phone. Does this sound like there's motivation? Is this an opportunity? That's all we're trying to find out.

That's it. And I know it takes time to really like feel and sense if there's an opportunity involved. Pretty much if, if they want to sell quick, if the house is in some sort of bad condition, or if they want like if there's timeline or motivation, that's like what you're looking for. Okay. She said the opposite. She's like, yeah, they need to buy another property, so they're going to roll this money, another one. They can just wait. They don't even want to lower it $1,000. There's just not a lot of motivation involved. Okay. So does— you don't— it just takes time to feel that, but then you feel in your heart, you're like, okay, this is, this is the one. This is one working. Okay, so that's what we went over today, guys, with the reverse wholesaling. I know that you all can go and take action. I hope today's call where we actually called some agents, showed you guys how to do it, how to script— I hope that was helpful. That's why we're doing this, guys, because it's fun. It's fun to teach this stuff. It's fun to show you, and this is what we're doing. This is— I mean, we We followed this criteria, um, to do a lot of deals. I think that $86K deal, like, we found— we actually had the lead already, so it wasn't— we didn't have the buyer before, we actually got the buyer after, but still we rolled with it and we were able to get the deal done by doing the strategy of not having to lock it up first, right? Because we talked to the seller. So there's a lot of different ways to navigate the real estate field. But, you know, if you're not— haven't even started, this is a really good way to just get your feet wet.

Yeah, guys, and reverse wholesaling, again, it's, it's, it's the right idea. It's a great start. But again, there's a 2.0 version of that, right? Which is what we do now, which is Painless Flipping, right? Starting with the buyers is great. But one of the problems with reverse wholesaling is try calling a bunch of buyers and have no opportunities at all. And see how, how long they want to chat with you. Hey, Mr. Buyer, I saw you buy properties in Ogden. What's your buy criteria? What? Click.

I don't have— yeah, click. They don't got time. They don't have time, right?

So, and then on top of that, reverse wholesaling still has the same fundamental issue that all wholesaling and traditional wholesaling has, which is, okay, I found the buyer, right? So I at least you know, know who's interested, what they're, you know, where they're, where they're looking for deals and whatnot. But I still got to acquire the deal the traditional wholesaling way, the wholesaling way. I still need to talk to the seller or the agent, say I'm this cash buyer and make all these promises, and then I have to get it under contract and then I have to assign it to that end buyer, hopefully. And hopefully they're able to make that price work and hopefully they're able to fulfill on all the promises that I just made on a legally binding contract. Well, what if there's a way? I don't know. What if there's a way to where I could find my end buyer? I could get them to tell me exactly what they're able to pay and have them give me a commitment. I can then, only then, make the offer to the seller, the agent, the whoever. And whether it's an assignment, whether it's getting paid through an invoice or a double close makes no difference to me because we can do it any which way it needs to be done, whatever is easiest. And best part, every single person knows what's going on. The buyers know I'm wholesaling it. The sellers know I'm wholesaling it. The agent knows I'm wholesaling it. Guys, there's a better way, right? 2024, there's a better way. I promise you it will change your life. Keep watching these videos that we put out. We're going to be showing you guys a ton of stuff and you're going to see us do it in action. So again, don't take our word for it. You'll get to see it in real time.

I love it. Anything else you got to say? That was beautiful. I think we should end it right there, guys. If you like this, go to painlessflipping.com. If you want to learn more about working with us, And if you don't want to work with us, keep watching these videos because we're going to be coming with some sauce every day. We're going to be helping you guys out. We want to help you guys do deals. We want to do deals. We love doing deals. Peace out, everybody.

Later, guys.