This Free Real Estate Tool Just Changed the Game (PropWire Demo)

Everybody that's on the call, welcome. And let's see, I was thinking, Jerry, we could either make— I could make some offers using Flipster. We could talk about any new strategies that you're going through. We could look at Propwire, maybe take some action on that, like pull some lists and see what we can do with that. I didn't really have a game plan, but I love having you on here. I know my group appreciates you being on here as well. So not sure if any of those sound better or if anyone in the audience has some specific But we're here to help. And again, Jerry, I appreciate you being here.

Yeah, no problem. I hope everybody's had a chance to see Propwire. We're pretty excited about it. It's been like over a year in the making, working on it, and I'm really hoping it completely changes the game for real estate. We've got like a whole wishlist of things we're working on. So the big things next are comps, and we're going to introduce skip tracing. We thought we had expired listings, but we had a problem with the data. So we're trying to fix that right now. But expired listings are going to be great because that's a— I really think expired listings is an awesome lead type. And we're doing some improvements on our MLS tool, which we've got in there. But yeah, it's pretty exciting. So, we could go in there and I could show around a little bit, some cool things that that does, if that's helpful. But yeah, whatever I can do to help too, Nathan. Just want to be of service.

Yeah. So, maybe we can open it up real quick before we dive in because I like to see see if any— there's anything we can do to help you guys out. Is there anything specific that, uh, any of you need at the moment or any questions? And then we can dive into Propwire and talk about that, maybe do some application pull lists or something, and maybe I can call something. But does, does anyone in the chat have anything they specifically need help with? I mean, we're here. Jerry, do you got it? I'm assuming you got like 30, 45 minutes.

Yeah. Yep.

Okay. So, uh, we got Lori. Lori, what's going on?

Hey, I'm driving the little one to school. School, my favorite time of the day. So, uh, you know, it's the most precious, uh, 15 minutes to trap my teenagers. So, um, I have a question. I hope it's okay that I'm barging in with this question because I think one of the things that's been on my mind since the changes in the market is what are you finding, Jerry, is the most effective form of marketing that you are getting results with?

Yeah, great question. Well, If you know me and follow me, you'll know that I love on-market. So, that's just been like, I've loved on-market through all the ups and downs since I got started. So, I just love creating relationships with real estate agents. I love the referral part of that, the ongoing, the repeat business side of working with agents. So, that's always been like my go-to favorite, favorite. It doesn't cost anything. It's just all about creating relationships. So, that's great. I love when you can do deals and not have a marketing spend. So that's pretty amazing. If we go off-market, I've got some favorites over there as well. Because of the relationship aspect, I really like the investors, which would be absentee owners, specifically tired landlords. The reason why I like tired landlords is because they're also, because they're investors, the level of conversation and the interaction, the rapport building, everything we do with that type of a lead is so much different than a distressed retail seller. Retail sellers, you've got to really get in a whole different mindset emotionally. You got to be able to show empathy. You got to be able to let them cry on your shoulder a bit, right? Because they're going through some hardship. All of that's great, especially if you're an empathetic kind of person. I'm not. I tend to be very mechanical, numbers-driven. And so, I have to really concentrate on getting in the right role when I'm dealing direct to seller. I can do it and I've learned how to do it, but you may not even talk about the property for half an hour and just let that person and vent about whatever their problems are, right? And that's important. That's how you gain trust. So you gotta do that. Tired landlords, no. Tired landlords, they're like, get to the point, dude. What's your offer? I'll sell my vacant, I'll sell my rental property that's been a nightmare for me all day long if it's the right number. So we get to skip all that crap and we get to just get right to the deal. I love that. I love to just pick up the phone, talk to a tired landlord and just get it done. You know, like that's amazing. So I just like the nature of that interaction so much better. And there's a— that's a big list. Like, that's a big list. Absentee owners is a massive list. Like, if you go and you can do this on all data sources, but like in PropWire, we filtered it not just absentee owner, but you can actually choose, are they out of state? So now you've just increased the motivation because if it's not their primary residence and they live out of state from the property, there's a much more higher chance that they're even more motivated with that property because it's hard to manage properties out of state, right? So, you know, there's some filters we can do, some stacking we can do. And then you can even add on top of that, like high equity or free and clear. So now you're talking to an out-of-state absentee owner that owns the property free and clear. That could be an amazing lead type. And again, scraping that and calling that, skip tracing that, calling that, having that conversation is a totally different approach than like a pre-foreclosure direct-to-seller is going to be, right? So that's not really like, oh, the market's giving us this better opportunity. That's just more of a preference of what's the avatar that you're working with and how do you relate to that avatar, right? How do you relate to that type of seller? It doesn't mean that pre-foreclosures aren't good or any of that. That's not true. They're all— all lead types can be amazing. It's more of my preference with how I want to interact with the leads I'm working on. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. But Laura, you could be more of a, like, a warm fuzzy personality and you might crush it with pre-foreclosure because you're, you have more of a softer personality. Maybe they relate to you better, they're less intimidated by you. All those things could be different for you than they are for me. So really, I think the right way to answer that as far as like the lead type is how well are you able to relate to that person going through distress? How well are you able to relate to agents if you're working agents? How well are you able to work with pre-foreclosures or whatever lead type you're talking to, whatever situation you're dealing with? How well can you work with that person and build a relationship? Because people will do deals with you not based on price so much. I mean, that definitely factors in, but they'll do a deal with you and you might be $30,000 less than other cash offers they're getting. And they go with you because they like you. They just like you more. And so they want to do business with you because they like you. Like, that's how important the relationship is when we're doing this business.

I don't disagree with you. I think it's like you said, there's a personality type for each different type of seller that exists. I guess a good comparison would be you versus RJ Bates. You know, he's straight to the point, no fluff, and then, you know, he's dealing mostly with tired landlords that I'm aware of. So I love all this information. My last question is this: what form of communication is working best? SMS, cold calling, what is— emailing, mailers?

Yeah, great question. So I like— I'm, I more believe like pick one and go deep than go horizontal and do lots of different things. Okay, better to be really good at one thing than not so good at a lot of things. And so, you know, again, there's a little bit preference there. But, but if you think about it, if you think about what's going to be the most effective communication, let's take price and cost out of the picture for a second. The most effective would be face-to-face. So if it was possible for you to have a face-to-face conversation, that's going to beat everything else, because when you're belly to belly, face to face, there's the inflections, there's the eye contact, there's that. That is powerful when connecting with humans, right? Well, it's hard to scale face to face, so that's not always our favorite, and it's expensive. But you can door knock. I mean, door knocking is extremely effective. Nobody wants to do it because it's expensive and it's time-consuming, it's hard to scale, so no one does it, but it's the most effective. The second most effective would be on the phone, talking face-to-face, not face-to-face, but talking on the phone. That's going to be powerful. Your next most effective would probably be— so that would be cold calling. Talking would be cold calling, right? So cold calling is your next probably most effective. After that is going to be text. Why text? Because everybody sees their text. They may not pick up the phone, or they may not answer a voice, return a voicemail, or open an email, but Most everybody sees text. So text can be very powerful as a way to communicate. And so then you just kind of work down the list, right? So now we take what's the most effective and we compare that to price. How much is it going to cost me to door knock? How much is it going to cost me to text? How much is it going to cost me to cold call? How much is it going to cost me to direct mail? So now we have to try to weigh between effectiveness and cost and somehow balance the two, right? Like if you had unlimited budget, you could door knock, send that person a direct mail, cold call them, and send them a text. And you could probably, you could probably do some PPC directly to that person and try to follow them on the internet. Like, and now you're spending $20,000 per contract and it doesn't make sense anymore, right? But just think through like, okay, well, there's all these different ways that I could either create an inbound where they call me or contact me, certain marketing, it's them calling you, or I reach out to them and I outbound, I'm calling them, I'm reaching out to them. Of all these different methods, Which ones do I— what kind of budget do I have to work with? And which ones do I want to focus on based on effectiveness and cost and somehow come up with a strategy? So there's no right or wrong answer. Like, you could talk to someone that all they do is direct mail, and they're going to tell you direct mail is where it's at, direct mail is the best strategy, it works the best. Well, why? Because they have experience and they know how to do it and they like it. And so that's what they're going to tell you. Jerry might tell you something, Nathan might give you something different. And all of those things are true, but what is it that you want to do based on your budget, based on effectiveness versus cost, and then try to make some educated decisions around that. And really, no matter what you do, you have to do small samples, test and track, test and track. As you start to see what's working, then you put more money and more budget into those things. Test and track, test and track. What's working today might work really well for the next month, 2 months, 3 months, and then maybe it stops working so good and you got to switch things. So nothing Nothing is going to be the same for you as it is for me. Your market might be different than my market. The lead might be different. The list might be different. The marketing piece might be different. So the only way to really know this stuff is to try things, test it, track it, try to decide, is it not working because of me? Are we not converting? Or is it because, like, what is the breakdown? And of all the different things I'm testing and trying, can I find the sweet spot that's working well right now? So I kind of made that a broad answer, but I want to be careful not to say things that are my preference or that I've had success with that may not necessarily be right for everybody or right for you, right?

I agree with everything you said. Yeah, it was good. Lori, you have anything, any follow-up?

Thank you. I appreciate it. And everyone else, thank you for letting me bombard Jerry first with that question. I love it. And I'm curious to see what other questions are coming up. So, oh yes.

Yeah, I appreciate you asking that. And Jerry, I want to second that. Um, it is very— it is much easier to work with people that do not— are not the, uh, owner-occupied people, right? That they don't live in the area. Because right now, me and Joe Jernigan, uh, he's also in your Fast Track, but I work with him too. We're trying to do a deal in Richmond, and, uh, the seller lives in the house, and we found a buyer. Everything's ready to go, and the buyer's like, I'm ready to close. But he has to be out. Seller was like, yeah, I'll be out. I'll be out before close. I swear. Close came. Seller didn't get out. Um, and, uh, our buyer's like, he needs to get out. He said he would. And the buyer's like, the seller now is like, I got no place to go. I got blah, blah, blah, making excuses. So it's like, he was hoping we would close on it. And then he was like, oh, give me 30 days. We all know too well what happens a majority of the time. They usually don't get out. So now with this seller that has lived, is living in the property, like were having problems and the buyer is wanting to force legal action because they already put— they were ready to buy it and then put someone else in it. So now they're in trouble. So it's interesting. So if for everyone that's watching this, what he said, if you can work specifically focused on tired landlords, people that aren't owner, that don't occupy the property, you're going to have less problems. That doesn't mean you can't do deals. Most of my deals have been with people living in the house, but there are more problems for sure.

Yep, definitely.

But, uh, but with that as well, there, there's usually good deals as well. I mean, there's great deals with people that are— that live in the home. And Jerry, that's why I like so much, uh, what you teach with the, uh, making on-market offers, is because everyone struggles knowing the best way to get motivated leads. That's just no matter what. Well, you'll talk to 100 investors, everybody, that's what they want. They want motivated sellers. So all trying to find the best way to do it. And if you do it wrong, you can break up some marketing costs. But if you can do some deals that are on market, that really helps with the marketing budget. Yeah. So you don't just spend your way into oblivion.

Yeah. What on market's allowed me to do is, because I still believe in off market, but just off market costs. But if you can implement on market, and let's say that you're now doing some deals on market and those deals have a zero budget for marketing, but you're bringing in revenue, all that's going to do is it's going to bring your cost per contract way down with your off-market strategies. So, it allows you to kind of play at another level with off-market because you're offsetting some of that cost with the revenue from on-market. Does that make sense? So, it just allows you to play the game a lot better, I think.

Right. 100%. And also, joint venturing, right? If you have the right relationships with people. I do this all the time, Jerry, with a lot of your students and a lot of mine. And just in general, I have relationships with buyers. So, when I see people that are trying to sell deals, connect them. And that helps with the bottom line too, that helps with the marketing cost, that helps the cost per contract go down. If I'm able to do deals that like through on-market, through JVing, that really helps offset the cost of marketing as well.

Right, because you didn't have an acquisition cost because your role was to bring the buyer. So you bring the buyer, you JV on the wholesale fee, you just brought in $5,000, $10,000, $15,000, whatever into your income on a JV deal that didn't cost you anything. That's going to offset your marketing budgets on your off-market strategies. That's great. I mean, that's Awesome.

So that's why I recommend for everyone here, as you do your business, master one market. Jerry, you know that I went nationwide, right? And it was a, it was a hard thing to do, and it— but it worked for me. But with the way that the market shifted, it's a lot more difficult to maintain that model. So one market, one market, everyone master it, get relationships. And then not only can you do deals, you can do deals through other people's deals, you can do on-market deals. It's just better if you can master one area before going all over the country like I did. It was— I figured it out, but it was very difficult.

Awesome.

Yeah, just—

yeah, real quick.

Yeah, one thing I want to point out with kind of what, um, both of you were talking about, you know, I hope people kind of picked up on the, the theme. You know, you're both talking different tactics. You know, Nate, you were talking a little bit about, you know, relationships and JVing, and Jerry, you know, you're talking about, you know, on-market and realtor relationships. But the one, the one theme that I hope everyone takes from this, and then Propwire can— plays a big part as well, is you're both talking about low-risk high margin, right? High profitability, you know, and especially when starting out, how, you know, how important that is, you know, when you don't have these, these huge budgets to put into marketing, you know, start with kind of, you know, certain areas, you know, you can pick one, there's different ones, but, you know, make sure it's high margin, you know, you don't have kind of a big overhead or anything like that. And, um, Jerry, I'd love to hear about— man, I, I didn't get to watch, um, I know you just put out a video on prop bar. I was super curious. I was like, wait, what is this? This, this is crazy. I was like, is this real? I'd love it. Selfishly, you can kind of— for everyone here and myself, I'd love to just hear a little bit about it. I, I think probably one question is, how's this kind of compared to sort of paid stuff that's out there? I mean, because for anybody that hasn't, hasn't seen or heard, um, I believe— yeah, you just posted a video kind of explaining everything about it, but it's free data, right?

Yeah. So, what happened was is, you know, I've had my Flipster software for years. Like, we launched Flipster in 2014. Well, when I built Flipster, it was all specific to wholesaling and flipping. That's my main thing. It's what I specialize in. And so, really, I just started taking my spreadsheets and tools and creating it into a software. Since then, every 6 months, we keep making improvements and updates. Then, we introduce data and we have data now in Flipster. But Flipster has been and always has been just for wholesalers and flippers. It really doesn't apply outside of that. So, like the deal analyzers, the budget trackers, the contracts, digital contracts, everything in there, and there's a lot of tools in there, it's all meant for wholesalers and flippers. There's a workflow, and, and so that's been great. But what was happening was, is I was seeing in the marketplace, like, everyone's got to get data, everyone's got to get data. And so Flipster included, there's a subscription to get data. So PropStreams and Batch and all these other services, they have to go out and aggregate this data. It costs money to get that data. You have to buy that data in bulk. Now, the more you buy, the better rates you get. So, the average person can't really go out and buy data in bulk. There's not really a platform that lets you kind of assimilate the information and get it in a very easy way, even if you could pay in bulk. So, that's where these second-tier services came out, like the PropWires and the BatchLeads. What they're doing, if you guys didn't know, is they've created a development. So, there's this big software development that's going to go grab the data in bulk and then organize it in a way to where you and I can get that information and fairly easily access it, right? Download it into a list. And then, everyone started doing additional things like comping tools and other things that kind of assist. Skip tracing is one, but you have to pay a subscription and you pay a subscription and you get a limited amount. So, like most— the most common model is you pay $100 and you get 10,000 per month. Now, if you want more than 10,000, then you pay additional for more leads. Well, I kind of looked at how some of the biggest software companies have grown. Like, let's take Zillow, for example. Well, Zillow, they made their platform free. Now, it's designed for retail, right? So homeowners can go on Zillow, they can search and look at houses for free. You can't do that on the MLS. You got to have— you got to pay dues for the MLS. You got to be a licensed agent to get the MLS, but not Zillow. Zillow is free. So how in the world does Zillow make money? Well, Zillow gives the data in essence, the data for free and then makes revenue on side services or additional services, mainly agents that advertise on the platform. So, Zillow's number one revenue is from agent advertisements. So, you guys see those find an agent, click on it. Those agents are paying to be able to have exposure on Zillow. So, now, Zillow's also introduced all kinds of other things like mortgages and title, and they tried doing They tried flipping for a while. They sucked at it so bad that they had to get out of it because that's not as easy as it sounds. Yeah. But Zillow is able to provide a service for free for the users and then make income on the side services, right? So that's the vision I had for Propwire. So it's going to revolutionize the entire data industry because who is not going to have a free Propwire account? Who's not going to have it, especially if I can make the experience really good? And so I've invested a lot. My development team that's been full-time for over a year now, and they're going to stay full-time for ongoing because I'm going to make it better and better and better. So, it's very expensive and I'm buying the data. So, this is millions of my own money project into this without seeing a dime for a while. And so, like, once I introduce skip tracing, well, now there'll be some revenue because I'm able to get skip tracing super cheap, offer it to the public for a competitive price, what they're paying anyway, and then link that to the data. So now people are gonna, they're gonna search and download the data for free. Well, it's going to be amazing when you can then just skip trace it right on the platform. So that'll be a revenue stream that comes. Maybe direct mail. So maybe what you can do is, let's say you have your favorite CRM like Flipster or Podio or whatever, you could then download your list. Well, wouldn't it be cool if you could just automatically import it into your CRM?

On.

So now, we can go to the CRMs and we can say, "Hey, do you want to be on our platform so people can just directly go to your CRM?" Well, now, if they're not a member, they can choose you, sign up, pay, whatever. And so, we'll work with those people. Maybe over time, a hard money lender will want to be on the platform. And then, because they know there's millions of users that are there. So, same type of idea. Like, if you look at one of the greatest examples for me is you look at— and I don't know if you guys care about all of this, but I'm you know, you asked, so I'm sharing. But I look at— I looked at Instagram. So Instagram for years had no revenue. So millions and millions of dollars out on that platform. So what was Instagram's goal? Users. So over time, they've got millions of users, and Facebook comes along and says, oh, we're gonna buy Instagram for a billion dollars or whatever. Well, what did they buy? That it wasn't making revenue. There was no revenue. They bought the users. Because now they bought the users, and now they introduce revenue, and they instantly have millions users that are going to now advertise. So I'm actually fine not to make any revenue for a long time. I want to have millions of users. I want Propwire to basically replace all other data because it's free. So I'm going to keep investing in the data. So meaning what PropStream and some of the others, they don't do is if you update, the more often you update the data, the more you're spending on data and the more it costs. Well, data is only relevant if it's fresh and new, right? So, we're buying data and updating data daily. The other platforms aren't doing that. It's not daily. It's weekly, monthly kind of data. And so, it'll take some time, but I want everyone to say hands down this data is better than the paid data. I want everyone to say hands down searching and downloading is so much easier and better and faster. The filters and the advanced things and the customization is really easy to use. I want it to be like Zillow where it's almost brain dead simple to use that you can just get in there and figure it out really quickly. So we're really focusing on the UI, the user interface and the user experience. And so like, the more I use it, the more I'm like, oh, I wish it could do this a little better. This is kind of clunky how it's doing this thing. So we're gonna fix that. I'm listening to everybody's feedback. If you've got feedback, I would love your feedback. Like, man, I was doing this in there and it reset my filters. I didn't like how it did that. You know, any of those things so that it becomes just easier and faster and better to use. And then the two biggest things we're working on to introduce next is gonna be comping. Everybody wants a comp tool and rightfully so. And skip tracing would be fantastic because you download that list and now what? Well, you gotta skip trace it or you can direct mail it, right? But until you skip trace it, you can't really cold call or SMS because you don't have a phone number, right? So that's the next kind of step in the process with data is skip tracing. So that's kind of the long story of like the vision of it.

Jerry, I got a question. Do you think other platforms are charging and they see that you're getting a giant audience? Do you think they'll change the way they do their, uh, subscriptions?

It's very interesting right now because one, two things are happening right now. Um, affiliates are freaking pissed off at me. All the affiliates are pissed off at me, and rightfully so, because if people start canceling their PropStream accounts, all these affiliates are going to start losing revenue, right? Because you guys all know, right, like you, you create an affiliate account, PropStream will pay you a commission for everybody that signs up.

Awesome.

That's how PropStream grew so fast in batch and became so successful was through their affiliate model. Well, since we're not revenue right now, affiliates are reluctant to sign up. So you'll see, you'll see Propwire go viral and then you'll be wondering, well, why isn't, why aren't, why isn't my favorite guru talking about Propwire? Well, it's hard for them to say, don't sign up and pay for PropStream, go to Propwire. That's free. So it's gonna, I'm in a kind of a sticky situation now. Now, once there's revenue and I can show affiliates, "Hey, people that sign up that start using skip tracing, now you can get commissions," all of a sudden, you'll see affiliates with audiences, they'll start to promote it. But it's really shortsighted because think about it, there's market share to grab right now. So, like Nathan, if Nathan gets an affiliate link and he starts sharing Propwire and saying, "Hey guys, this is free. This is awesome. Start using it." You know, as long as you think it's that, like, if you don't believe in it, don't. But if you did, all those signups that are going to come under your affiliate email or your affiliate link, later when skip tracing and other services are offered and they start buying and using those services, then you're going to get credited to it and you're credited for life. So, as long as that signup keeps using services over time, you keep getting commission. So, if the affiliates out there could see the vision, they would start building massive signups right now because everyone's going to sign up anyway. They're all going to— everyone's going to sign up because why wouldn't you? It's free, right?

Right. And the way I am, Gary, you know how I am. For me, I want what's best for every— like, I don't want to say students, of people that I work with, right? Members. Because it's— this, this is about livelihood, right? This is about like helping everybody. So for me, I'm having you on here. Obviously, we work together, you're my mentor, but I think that the message is true and I think it's awesome. And I do work with Batch, right? So I know with Batch Leads, for me, I personally use Batch Leads for a lot of the things that Propwire doesn't do yet, right? Like, they do the—

Yeah, totally.

And you'll get there, right? But I think—

Yeah, totally. So keep your other accounts. If they're doing additional things like copying and other things, fine, keep them. But still get Propwire and start using it and get it because it's free. Like, even if you have a PropStream account, they limit you at 10,000. Well, we actually do have a limit. It's 250,000. Just because if someone's doing that, then I want to make sure they're not repurposing the data. Getting it all and then, I don't know, do it. So we'll actually reach out to them and say, why are you getting $250,000 a month? But essentially it's unlimited, right? And so, yeah, good luck doing more than $250,000. But over time, there's going to be no reason why you would be paying for these other services when it's totally free. So that's my point, is it's going to take the industry by storm, maybe slow, maybe slower than faster.

I agree with you, and I think that's awesome. And that's why I'm, you know, I think everybody on here should definitely get Propwire because it is helpful. And, uh, yeah, I'm excited. Can we actually dive into it? Can you share your story?

Yeah, hopefully. Nathan Payne, that was, uh, I'm not sure if that was what you were— the answer you were looking for.

Yeah, no, perfect answer for sure. You answered that right, Nathan.

Yeah, no, that was because I was, I was so curious. It's like, yeah, kind of what the vision is. And, and, um, you know, yeah, I agree with you because on, on Facebook, just from looking at, I was like, wow, This has got to make things difficult for a lot of people, other people in this industry, because this is really cool, you know, free. And especially, I think, you know, a lot of people that, you know, we talked to, especially, you know, for wholesalers, especially newer wholesalers or people just looking to get started, you know, a lot of times we— I know I did, I had a really, really low budget when I first got started. And I mean, you know, I know what it's like to spend $37 on skip tracing and being like, oh, I hope this comes out.

Yeah.

Yeah, no, I think, I think it's amazing what you're doing, Jerry. And, um, long term, I, I think it'll work out really well for you too.

Yeah. And then what I love about that is anything that disrupts the industry makes the industry— makes things better for everyone. Yeah, it'll make their products better if they don't— if they pivot. It makes our experience as wholesalers better. It's all better.

Yep.

All right, Jerry, do you want to share your screen and go through it?

Okay, so if you come in here and you don't have an account set up, then it'll let you search all day long. And as soon as you want to download something, then it'll ask you to, uh, to create a free account, right? So I'm logged in right now. So then from the search bar here, let's just pick like Mesa, Arizona. And then you could pick from lead types, right? Or just leave it on all for now. And then when you search, it's gonna do, you know, a map. It's going to break down, it's going to show you individual data here. And it's showing me 186,000 because it's got, you know, all types. So there's a few things you can do. You can change your area, so you could go zip code, or you could draw. The draw feature is pretty cool. You just make points, right? So you would make a point and draw your box or your polygon or whatever, and then if you, if you accept that area, then it's going to just show you in there. So it's kind of cool if you've got specific areas that you target, you can do it that way, uh, or you can clear it and just go back to like— well, I'll put a zip code in. 85203 is a zip zip code in Mesa where I used to live, and it's gonna then, uh, hone in kind of that area. So you could see here, if I back out a little bit, that zip code kind of covers this, this space right here. And now I brought it down to 10,000. So I went from 186,000 down to 10,000. So that's one way you could filter it. I'm gonna go ahead and put it back at Mesa just so we keep a large segment. So again, going back to Mesa, which is a pretty big city, you've 186. Well, now I can go by and I can start to look at specific leads. If you want to stack, then go ahead and click this box, must match all selected. And now what I can do is I can say, okay, I want to do absentee owners and I want to do free and clear. So now it's going to bring just those two in. So now it brought that down to 49,000. Then properties, I could— right now it's got all selected. I could say I want to look at single-family only. Or I could add, say, single-family and condos. So, it's got some really simple filters here to just add or take away. So, let's say I leave it there. And then owner types could be individuals, businesses, or bank or trust. So, we could leave that at all right now. And again, it shows you stuff on the map. If I click on one of these dots, it could— it'll pull up the property. If my signal is good, which it's not been very good, it'll show me a Google image of the property. Right here, or I can look at data on this side. Here's your different filters. So, if it fits another filter, it'll tell you that there as well. So, these say it's got 2 more. I don't know what are the other 2. Let me see if I can find it. So, it includes 2 other— or here, absentee, free and clear, and vacant. So, it also tells you what other categories each lead fits under. So, this property here is actually vacant as well, which is one of our list types. So then, go in here and you can say, you know, I want to look at $50,000, $100,000, $250,000 in this row, And then right here, you can sort. So, you can say, I want to sort my list by equity percentage, equity dollar, or property value. And then if you do that, oops, if you do that, like let's say I pick it by equity dollar amount, it's going to start at the highest and go down, or I can click this and it'll switch it the other way and go lowest to highest. So, there's that filter. And then if you're ready to then go to the next level, you can now download a list here. So there's a couple advanced filters. These are really cool. So if you go to property, you could say, look, I only want to look at 3 bedrooms, or I want to look at stuff that's only occupied, vacant, minimum bathrooms. You can add in filter, additional filters. You can add owner filters in here, owner occupied, is it in-state, out-of-state, how long have they owned it. I want to pick people that have just owned properties for at least 7 years, for example. Any of these things are going to obviously make your list smaller, but more concentrated. You could do financial filters. So, you know, last sale price, sale date. And then we've got some really cool MLS. If you're looking at MLS where it'll filter between investor-owned, these are more like buy-and-hold investors, creative financing filters, which is cool. And then motivated seller, these would just be like handyman, fixer-upper, any kind of keywords that are in the MLS leads that meet those. So kind of neat to have some MLS stuff here.. So then if I go out of here, I don't know if I clicked any. Yeah, it'll tell me if I put any filters in. So that's some of your advanced filters. The save search is really cool because if you go ahead, you can say notify me, and then every day it will give you any updates to your save search. That's really awesome. It'll either text them, it'll text you, or it'll email you that you've got brand new leads that match your save search. So if I save this as absentee free and clear single family in Mesa, Arizona, there's a new lead that comes out tomorrow, it's going to notify me. So you could literally call that lead that minute, right? Skip trace it, call it that minute because it's a brand new lead that hits the market. So we really love that save search feature. That's pretty cool. And then it's pretty simple. You want to download this list, click on the download, download all, and it's going to give you— it's going to actually ask you how much information do you want. So, you could check these different boxes here. I don't know why you'd want some of this data, but you might other than just the property and the address, and boom, you just download that data and you've got it in a CSV file. So, you could see here, I'm trying to make this super intuitive, easy to navigate, easy to understand, and just super simple to use. Questions on that, Nathan?

[Speaker:NATHAN_PAYNE] Beautiful. Beautiful. I thought that was awesome that you did a good job. That was great. I do believe the way that I kind of show people that are getting brand new into the real estate, when they start doing off-market is to target a specific area that you have buyers for. So you're not— Mark, if you start pulling these lists and you skip trace and start calling in an area that's, uh, there's not a lot of investor activity, right? That happens a lot. A lot of people, they just start, they're like, hmm, I'll just start where I live. And they don't understand that where they live in the middle of nowhere in Pennsylvania, there's no buyers, right?

Yeah. Like, for example, Well, let's say your cash buyer says, you know, I'm looking for— I want to buy right now, but I don't go north of Main Street or south of the 60 between here and here. Okay. Well, great. Now, you can say, well, I want to target data, you know, leads that match my buyer. And so, then you make that custom location, and now everything you're doing inside that matches your cash buyer who's ready to buy a deal.

Exactly, exactly. Because the way, the way that, uh, when you do start doing off-market, especially if you're newer, you can pull the whole state of Utah, you can pull the whole Salt Lake City and overwhelm yourself, right? Oh yeah. But if you do, if you start doing off-market the right way where it's like, okay, I, I know in this specific area this is what people are, this is really hot. If I find something, I know I can go back and, and talk to some people. So Jerry, this is perfect. This thing, this can help people.

Or let's say, let's— another thing that's cool about this is so right now under absentee, free and clear, in Mesa, only single family, it's giving me 20,000. Well, let's say you're like, you know what, I really don't have bandwidth right now for 20,000. Like, I can skip trace and cold call 5,000. Well, one thing you could do is you could say, all right, well, let me just grab a custom sample of 5,000. So, click that, click go. Now, it's going to give me— I got to clear this, but now it's going to give me just that 5,000 out of the Another way would be just add some more filters. Like, let's say you're like, okay, absentee owner, free and clear. And let's say I want vacant. Now, that might take it down way lower, but let's just see what it does.

Okay.

Now, I got 556. So, if you're a newbie and you're like, man, I don't really have much budget, but this 556, that's a small sample or a small list. But dude, they're absentee, they're free and clear, and they're vacant. Wow. That's a very high motivation list. So now I'm gonna skip and call or mail or whatever that small list of a highly concentrated motivated seller. Or you can say, you know what, I want bigger. So then let's not go vacant. Let's maybe pick something else. Empty nester means that people have owned the home for more than 7 years and they have a lot of equity. So it's just, see what I mean? You can keep adding these different filters and to—

There probably won't be any empty nester vacants, right? Because empty nester means they live there, right?

Right? Well, they've owned it. I guess there could be. Let's see what happens. Let's take, let's take, um, let's try it. So let's see, empty nester and what was the other one we wanted?

Vacant. Because I would just assume the empty nester means like there's not very many.

Yeah, so they've owned it for 20 years and it's vacant, but that's a pretty good 63 people to call.

Yeah, that's one. That's what I think for everyone that's on this call is when you get into this business, you sometimes think like if you pull 10,000, 20,000, you blast all those people, that's the best way to go about marketing, but that's not always the best way. You can take a niche, very niche down approach where you're like, hey, in this area I want these. And if I don't get a hold of, let's say, 200 of these people out of all— I get a hold of 400 out of the 600 and there's 200, let me go knock those 200. Let me go— why aren't you answering? And that way, yeah, that way, because you know, okay, if I can't get a hold of these 200 people, they're probably not getting a held— no one's getting a hold of them, right? So let me find out what's going on. So you can be more of a detective in this and be more pinpointing like a sniper versus let me just call, call, call, call until I get some interest.

Yeah, are you a machine gun or are you a sniper? You know, like, there's nothing wrong with the machine gun approach if you've got a team, processes, money to throw at marketing. But sniper approaches— the sniper approach is extremely effective if you're good at it, right? So that means get a, get a higher concentrated list much smaller and now nail that list. Like Nathan said, like if you door knock these 63, well, they're vacant, so that might not be the right thing to do. But if you tackle this list of 63, man, that's an amazing list. Empty nester vacant. That's someone who's probably wanting to sell that property.

Yeah. In that specific area where, you know, you have somebody. And by the way, if you have buyers, I don't say always sell to your buyers. That's not what I'm You sell if you want it to be done quick, but if they lowball you, then you say, okay, that's just not what I need. Let me— and then you market it normally. But it's nice to have someone in your back pocket if you got to be quick about it. Mm-hmm. Totally cool. All right, Lori, what's up?

Um, I had a question. You know, Nathan, you and I have been talking about like you have been doing reverse wholesaling, and I guess kind of like light bulb went off when Jerry's showing all this, and I'm kind of on my other screen over here navigating and following the steps along as he's doing this and I'm sitting here going, oh my gosh, this is like stupidly genius, like everything else that he comes up with. And I'm just kind of like saying to myself, like, is this what Nathan's doing? Is this how he's navigating?

Like, that's it. I mean, what I used to do when I first started was I would just pull a giant list and I would mail the whole thing, right? Cold call the whole thing. And I'd cross my fingers and I'd hope to get a deal. But, uh, there's better, there's just more strategic ways to do it, especially just the way Jerry showed it, showed us. Yeah.

And then my last question is I'm looking at this estimated value and please do not take offense to this question. I know you said that your accuracy, as far as the information goes, is pretty up there with, you know, running stuff daily. I do find a lot of programs are not as good as this one, probably don't necessarily.

Yeah, they're really off.

Well, that's Okay, so great question. Um, no matter where you go, that value could be on or off because there's no real way to create an algorithm to get value because we know that it's subjective based on the neighborhood. You know, always take it with a grain of salt just like you do the Zillow number. Now, Zillow's come a long way over the years. Like, I am so impressed with how much Zillow's improved their technology with their Zillow Estimate number. Like, if it used to be like the biggest joke ever, the Zillow number, like it was so far off that it was laughable. Profitable. Not anymore. Zillow is really, really good. So, this is also an algorithm that's grabbing data and it's trying to give you the best estimate possible. But properties change based on condition and there's no way of really knowing condition to value a property. So, it's just grabbing tons of data and trying to give you the best number possible. So, but I want to improve this. So, we're working on a tool right now where this is really cool. Well, I think it's cool. You tell me if it's cool. It's going to give you a scorecard and it's going to say, say, okay, here's what Zillow says the property is. Here's what realtor.com, Trulia, Redfin, uh, I have my own algorithm that we built on a zip code. So it takes the average in the zip code of solds in the past 6 months. Here's all these different scores, whatever other scores I can find, and here they are. Pick your favorite. Or here's a compilation of the average of 5 different scores, and that maybe that's more accurate. But even that might not be accurate because because is it ARV or as-is value? Well, no one can really figure that out unless you manually comp it to figure out what's the stuff selling for that's totally renovated versus the as-is stuff, right? So, just whenever you're looking at a value, no matter who's giving it to you, take it with a grain of salt. The only way to really know would be to comp the neighborhood to find out for yourself.

Agreed.

Yeah. But it does feel nice to have some confidence in the estimated value. So I've tested this like several times with Zillow and we're pretty comparable to Zillow on most of the values. But you tell me, you play with it, you do your own and tell me like, "Hey, Jerry, it's right on or way off." Because I think that's a great idea.

That algorithm you're talking about, taking all those and then just doing an average, like, I think that's a great idea.

Other than aside from comping, that's the best way I can think of to feel good about a number because all these different softwares out there, they, they're using some type of an algorithm to come up with those numbers. So if you see a range, like if you see everybody all over the place, well, that's sort of alarming to me. Like nobody really knows because it's not consistent. But let's say that the 5 different big scores are all coming in pretty close. Well, you could probably feel pretty confident about that number without doing your own analysis.

And most sellers anyway look at that, that info anyway to determine the value of their home.

Exactly. Yeah. So, it doesn't matter. When you're buying, that's what they're seeing. So, you're kind of going off of that number anyway because that's the number the public sees is the Zillow number, right? So, like, you know, I'm buying a lot of houses right now and I'm looking, my fast analysis is either this number or like a Zillow number. Well, I know that if I want to go ARV, that's a totally different analysis because now I got to exclude old and dated homes and only look at at newly renovated homes, which means I'm now looking at the top of the market prices, not the average or middle or low. So when someone says, is this the value? Well, the first question you need to ask is, well, are you talking as-is value or are you talking ARV? There's a huge difference between as-is and ARV.

[Speaker:NATHAN_PAYNE] Right. And I think a lot of wholesalers, like people on this call that are watching or will watch, they get hung up on like the value when it doesn't really matter. You're trying to find the right opportunity. So if you find someone that you look at Zillow and you offer 50% %, right? And they still keep you on the phone, and that's probably a good opportunity, right? Or someone that is worth talking to. But there's no reason to comp a deal or really dive too deep until you find you have someone worth talking to. Totally. So I don't really worry about that much, that stuff too much.

If you're wholesaling, then you're pretty much going to go with 40 to 50 cents on the Zillow number or this number, right? Like, that's your fast analysis to buy deep. Deep. So, who cares if it's $190,000 or $195,000 or like it really doesn't matter. What matters is, do you have a motivated seller and you're buying deep? Like, that's what matters. If you find out later you're off a little bit, that's when you renegotiate in any way. So, like, I think we overcomplicate analysis a lot in this business.

A majority of you have to renegotiate your deals anyway.

Yeah. You overpaid. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say you overpaid, renegotiate it deeper.

Like, that's kind of Yeah, that's usually what happens, right? Yeah. You found some stuff in your inspection, so, you know, you know a little bit more about the property.

But I love the story, I love the story, Nathan, where you helped Blaine and his wife on their deal. Blaine was like, yeah, Nathan told me to go back. It was, the contract was like $250,000. Nathan told me to go back at $210,000. And he's like, I was dreading that call with the seller, but he did it, you know, he stepped up, he did it, and the seller said, well, let's do $220,000. And there, and he's like, okay, done. I don't know if those were the exact numbers, but the point is, is like, you renegotiated it and you got it got it where it needed to be, and you guys wholesaled it for like $20,000 or $25,000 or whatever, right?

So, and Jerry, that's, that's a funny situation because, uh, they originally— the original listing price was $450,000 on that house, and I called that agent right as it came through, and he laughed at me when I offered him where we needed to be. Then I saw Blaine had it, said, Blaine, you're a little too high, come down here, and we eventually got it. So the agent that like laughed at me, I ended up doing the deal. I just— he just didn't know I in it.

I know. Well, and time changed, so at the moment they weren't motivated. Time goes on and then they were, right? So that's, that's why we always follow— that's why no never means no. It just means no right, right now. Yep. So that's right, it could be yes tomorrow. So never— when someone says no, it never means no.

Yeah, yeah, follow-up is key. So I know you got to go. It sounds like you got to run. Going on, um, Damon, uh, has a question, but I can answer that for for him. Uh, Jerry, I'll let you go because I know, I know you got— it looks like you got your wife and you got someone out there, uh, trying to hang out. So, yep, sounds good.

Awesome.

Well, thanks for the time, Nathan.

I appreciate you guys.

Yeah, thanks, Jerry.