Wholesaling Real Estate Payneless Flipping Secret

What is going on, everybody? My name is Nathan Payne. If you don't know who I am, I've been wholesaling for about 6 years now, and I love hopping on phone with sellers. I love negotiating, love talking to people. So that's what we're going to be doing on today's call. Again, if you don't know who I am, I've done several deals, and my goal is to help you guys close more deals because that's, that's why we're in this real estate space is we want to help people succeed. We want to help people win. We don't want to just do every deal. We want to do the deals that make sense. For us and the seller, whether you're working with agents, wholesalers, or direct-to-seller, doesn't matter. You want to find, uh, you know, the common ground where everybody wins. That's how you succeed and you feel good about what you do. So that's me. What we're doing today is I'm going to show you guys my process with batch leads, how I look at deals before I call, if I do a big deep analysis or not, and how my conversation goes. We're going to try and get some sellers on the phone. I got some leads that we can call., and I'm going to take you through that process. And, uh, that's the plan for today's call. And the promise, as always, is I'm showing you exactly what I do, and I'm going to make some calls. Okay, so this isn't just me flapping my gums and saying, hey, this is, uh, what I, you know, used to work, blah, blah, blah. Like, you know, a lot of people, you don't— you're never really sure if people are talking like they actually know what they're doing. So I figure, why not show you? Why not show you what I do so you can determine for yourself if this guy's full of crap or if he's got a good process. So let's check it out. And if you're watching this live, I appreciate you. Go ahead, leave a comment, say, hey, what's up? I love to network with people. I love to JV. I love to do deals all over the country. So potentially maybe I got a deal that you could help me out with, or I have a deal I can help you out with. Who knows? All right. And, um, check out our done-for-you service at painlessflipping.com, how we help people out if they are scared to help on that phone or if they don't know what to do. We help you with our done-for-you service. So anyway, So let's dive right in, everybody, and throw in, uh, throw in some comments. I'd love to interact. And if you want to like this, that'd be nice too. Okay. So more people can see it. So anyway, I want to let you guys know. So we got this incoming lead. This is a Facebook lead. And I'll tell you right now that, uh, I do not dive into deals that deep, um, before I call the seller, mainly, mainly because you don't know if they're going to answer when you're calling someone, even if they fill out a form. You don't know if you're catching them eating dinner. You don't know if they're, you know, jogging on a treadmill. You don't know what's going on. So for me to do a deep, deep analysis, it doesn't— not really necessary. I don't ever really do that. If anything, this is batch leads. All I do is I type in the address, I look at where it is, it's just location-wise, because sometimes you get leads from places you're like, I don't even care if that person's super motivated. It's going to be hard to fix and flip that if I'm going to flip that myself or wholesale it, wholesale, whatever you want to do. This is in Deltona, Florida, so it's obviously very heavily populated. You already know if it's heavily populated, there's going to be some flippers out there. That's just how it is. But I just type in the address. I can click right here and get more information. Now, the reason why I can't show you on my screen on my computer, because I'm on YouTube and they're going to say, hey, you're showing too much good info, can't do it. So this is the most I would do. I would just check to see if the person who filled out the form, if they really are who they said they are. And I'd go to comparables and I'd say, okay, what is it looking like in this area? Just a quick glance. And it does give you, um, kind of an estimated value of what it thinks it's worth. And you can see other homes have sold in the area, sold, ones are for sale. That's it. I'm not going to go too much in depth because I could call this guy, he could be like, hey, sold it yesterday. Okay, so don't go, don't get too crazy. I know a lot of people that get stuck in analysis paralysis, they're just like, well, I got to make sure I know everything. I hear you. I've heard it. I get why you feel that way. Not necessary. Just make the call. Okay. And before I make this call, let's see, I got some comments coming through. Glad to be here. I don't know how to pronounce that name. I know the last part's Kelly. Is it Chate? Chate? Man, I'm sorry. I feel terrible that maybe I might be mispronouncing your name. I'm sorry. Chate. Chate, thanks for coming. I appreciate you. Let's make some calls. Let's see how it goes. So right here, Let's call this seller and see how he's doing. See, I hope he's doing well. Hope he's doing swell. Okay, so right here, his name is good old Jeff. Okay, let's see. So I'm just looking at my CRM, guys. If you don't have a CRM, it's okay. You don't necessarily need one, but it is nice to have a CRM once you start getting multiple leads because it will be get— it will get difficult to manage everything. All right, let's give him a call. And what do I always tell everybody? I say you got to just be prepared to call 3 times. Why? Because when I get a call from a number I do not know, I usually— I don't answer it because I'm like, I don't know who the heck this is. This could be a scammer, could be someone trying to scam me. Um, but yeah, so just always be prepared. Now, 3 might be excessive. 2 at least. Okay. And then obviously if they don't answer, you're going to throw them into a sequence. If you have a CRM, that's going to follow up with them, and you're going to send a text and a voicemail and an email. You know why? Because you paid a lot of money for these leads. If you are doing pay-per-lead, you did pay some money. You need to be able to get a hold of these people, especially if they fill out your form. Now, if it's— if you're cold calling or texting, that's, that's still important to get a hold of them, but Anyway, it's a little different. Okay, so he does not answer. I'll kind of give you an idea what I would have done, and then we'll call somebody else. Chate, chatty, chatty, chate. I hope I'm saying it right. This dude, Jeff. Come on, Jeff, let's freaking go. Okay, I told you. Hi, Jeff, how's it going? Good, good. Hey, sorry to bother you at the moment. I just got your information from a website saying that you wanted to sell, so I was calling to see if you had any time to chat right now. That I wanted what? That you were interested in selling your property on 1819 in Deltona. Oh, you already sold it? Congratulations. Did you sell it to a cash buyer or did you just list it? Okay, great. Well, what'd you sell for? I'm just curious because maybe I could have paid a little bit more. Who knows? $318,000. Wow, that's an excellent price right there. Good job. All right, Jeff, I appreciate you. Thank you. Bye. Look at that, everybody. That was terrible, by the way. I'll admit that that was just— he shook me. I was not prepared for that one. He did answer on the third call. I told you it works. Sounded like he was watching TV. He's probably like, forget this guy, I'm getting tons of calls. But $318, okay guys, let's take a look at this. The reason why I didn't like push back too much on that is because I did take a quick look at that, at this, and the estimated value is $319. So if he says he sold it for $318, no, he didn't. He probably sold it to someone that doesn't know what they're doing. They're going to try and get him down, okay? So because if it is a cash buyer, they can't pay retail. One thing I can show you, since I can't show you batch leads, I'm going to show you guys Zillow, all right? Let me pull this up. This is important for you guys to know. So when you should follow up or not, because he's like I said, he said he's going to— he's like, nah, I sold it. No, you didn't, bro. There's no way. There's no way someone's paying retail for cash, but he could just be trying to get me off the phone, right? Because he's probably getting several calls like this. Okay, so you guys are gonna love this. You're gonna love it. Let me show you. You're gonna love this picture. Let me, let me, uh, where the heck is my screen share? Here it is. Okay guys, check this out. He said he sold it for $318,000. The thing, his estimate is $318,000 for cash. I doubt it. Let's see. Okay, so what I'm going to do here is I'm going to show you guys why I doubt that. Let's see. So this is, if you zoom in, it usually takes you to where the property's at. So we can just go right here and see what houses are for sale in this area. Let's see, let's draw. It doesn't seem like there's that many that are for sale right now. Apply, let's see. I got to take off my filters, hold on. Reset all filters. Okay, okay, now there's a lot of houses for sale for sure. So he's got a 3/2, and we're gonna just go— it's a house. My gosh, that's, that's quite a bit of— it's quite a bit of homes right there, everybody. So we can just zoom in. Okay, so let's see. So $319,000. This house is selling on the MLS. Is it okay? It doesn't look like it's rehabbed necessarily. It's clean. Okay, so that's $319,000. That's kind of similar to his. Um, let's see if there's anything else. $318,000. Let's see. He might, he might have. I might have just been slow to the draw, everybody. $318,000. Let's 'cause these houses kind of suck. Let's see, is this a rehab property? Come on, you can give me more pictures than that. No, no more pictures than that. Okay, is this remodeled? Not really. Maybe, maybe, maybe so, everybody. Maybe you're right. I need to follow up on that though, 'cause I still think $318,000 is high, and I'll show you guys why. Let's take a look at this one. Okay. So here is, yeah, I wouldn't say flip, but I would say nice. Like it's, it's clean. $370,000, $398,000. Okay. It looks decent. So I'm just going to put this, his property in there just to kind of get the idea. His 3/2. Okay. His is a lot smaller than, um, some of the ones that are selling. But let me check it out one more time because he might be on that water and that water might be— well, he is. It looks like he is on that water right there and that might be getting him some extra juice on his property. But still, okay, let's see. Well, this is on that water. Maybe that water ain't that— well, there's that, that piece of land. Let's see. I wouldn't say if you're on the water it gets you like that much more. Let's see, 3, 2. Look at this one. This one's bigger than his. It's got a pool. And these prices are kind of all over the place, huh guys? It's kind of a little wild. $490,000. But that just sounds crazy out there. Let's see. And this is just so much less. Okay. So let's just go with what we're seeing. I'm seeing like an average of like $400,000 for properties like this. So I would just go to my calculator and say, okay, if I flip this property, what could I make at $318,000? Because that's really what it comes down to, whether you're going to flip it yourself or wholesale it. So let's say this thing is worth $400,000. Okay. And he's at— he says $318,000. So let's say it's a medium. Let's— most homes are medium rehabs, even if like they're decent condition. It just requires like a medium rehab most of the time because you usually got to redo the kitchens. In the bathrooms to get top dollar. Okay, so this is saying on a 1,500-square-foot home, it'd be $36,000. Usually it comes out more than that, but let's just go with that. So if I wanted to make $10,000 on this wholesale deal and I got it at $318,000, I wholesale it to a flipper and he had— it took him 5 months to flip it. He had to pay all those hard money costs, money costs. He's going to lose money at that deal. And if I don't, if I flip it myself, I'm gonna make $5,000 at 318. So it's tight. I already know it's tight because just looking at the information here, if they're going to flip it now, maybe the cash buyer is buying it to rent it. Who knows? What I would do in this situation, everybody, is I would follow up because sometimes, you know, a lot of people, they come in there and they're just like, 'Yeah, we'll give you that,' and they try— their strategy is to beat people up and negotiate them down. That's why I follow up and I just say, 'Hey, remember me.' So anyway, dang, was I sharing the wrong page the whole time? Oh my goodness, I'm so sorry. We don't see Zill, it's your Facebook page. Guys, I'm sorry. I was sharing the wrong page. You want me to do it for you really quick? I'll do it for you guys really quick one more time. Yeah, dang, I swear I was sharing the right page. My goodness, but I wasn't. Alright, so check it out. So I basically go here, I check out the address, and I say, okay, where's my property located? It's a 3/2, 1,500 square feet. And so I go out here, say, okay, what other homes that are 3/2s under— let's see, square footage max, we want to go 2,000, 1,750. Okay, so what are we looking at? These are homes that are under 200— sorry, 2,000 square feet. You got 360, 319, $250,000, $330,000. You have to be aware that, you know, these are further away from the water, so they're probably— the values aren't as much. But like I said, he wanted $318,000, guys. He said a cash buyer wanted it. You can see this one pretty much been flipped, $330,000. It's been on the market for 32 days, so it's not flying off the shelves. Yeah, it's hard for me to believe from the data I'm looking at. That other than his being on the water, that he's going to get much more than, you know, like $318,000, that's way too much in my opinion. I wouldn't buy it, I wouldn't flip it. So let's just say it's worth $400,000 even though the data is not really saying that it is. If you bought it, if you flipped it at $400,000, you got $318,000 and you flipped it, paid hard money costs, you paid your hold time, your interest on your money, and it was $36,000 to flip it, you'd make $5,000. Most rehabs are coming in more than that. So let's just say $50,000. So you're losing money. Now, if you want to wholesale this to somebody, they're losing major money. You'd have to get this thing at like $275,000 for this to make sense somewhat, right? If the numbers are correct, like $260,000 would for sure be a deal, right? If you were to flip it yourself or bring it to somebody because they'd make 11%. So that's Hopefully that helped. Did you guys all see that? Chate, did you see that? I broke it down, shared my screen the right way this time. So anyway, I called and third time he— third ring he answered and he was like, hey, what the heck do you want? I'm watching Matlock or something like that. And you know, he already sold it. Okay, let's try somebody else. What do you guys think? Let's do it. Okay, let me make another call. Let's see, but I am looking at my CRM really quick, so give me a second. Might sell to neighbor, just looking for value. We need to be— it won't take less than $300K. Okay, in the notes here, looks like a lead manager called and said that he was going to sell to his neighbor. So whether that's true or not, we'll follow up. Alright, let's go to another one. We got Sandy, let's call her up. Okay, let's give her a ring. Ring-a-ding-ding. 512-371-18, okay. If you heard me saying that out loud, don't call my leads. Come on, unless you want to call them and give them to me and they're teed up. That'd be good. All right guys, check it out. What's the thing? My number? They don't know who I am. We call again. Shotty, shotty. Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. The person you're trying to reach is not available. Is it like shoddy, shoddy, like that? The Is that what it's like, Shotty Kelly? Like, um, hey Shotty, like the rap videos, or— or not close? Shotty, man, I hope I'm not messing the name up too bad, but I like it. It's a good name. It's new. I've never seen that name. I like it though. Okay, we're calling one more time. Your call has been forwarded to voicemail. Okay, I don't think she's hitting end button every time. Maybe it's just straight her phone's not turned on or whatever. All right, let's do another one. Let's see. All right, we're calling Virginia. And like I told you guys, there's— you can look at the deals, but I'd rather look at them as I'm talking to the seller or pull it up and dive in a little bit more later. I don't think it makes really sense to like dive too in depth if they're not going to, you know, answer or— yeah, you guys know what I'm saying. All right, here we go. This one just went straight to voicemail. Let's give another shot. Your call has been forwarded. Come on, we're hitting it, hitting it again. Okay, then. All right, so those are 3 leads I called. First 2, other 2 didn't answer, so we're gonna hit them with the text. And if we have their email, this is the cool thing about CRMs, guys, is the CRMs will automatically do it if you drop it into like a nurture sequence. And honestly, like, that's necessary. I feel like that's really necessary these days, guys, because I feel like just contacting people, that is like half the battle. It's just getting on the phone with people and building that relationship. But just so you know what the process looks like, it's you call 3 times, you get a hold of them. If you don't, all good. And if you, you know, call them 3 times, they're most likely going to be like, what do you want? So you got to be able to handle that. I kind of got flustered. I should have handled my own a little bit better. I'll be honest, I can do better, but Sometimes I get— take my licks, and sometimes I get rocked a little bit, but I come back stronger than ever the next time. I don't really dive too much deep into the data before I get them on the phone. If I do, then I'm able to look. He said $318,000 on the first call. That's what this thing says it's worth. That's what Batch says it's worth. You look on Zillow, that's what it says it's worth. So doubt it, we'll follow up. And, you know, next time, hopefully, you know, be a little bit more prepared when he's watching TV and he's like, what do you want? I'll be like, hey sir, I know you're busy watching TV, but do you got a minute? I, I'll be bit— I'll be better on that one. Do you guys— does anyone that's watching this live have any questions? I'm definitely here to help, definitely here to, uh, answer, help. Hey, what's up Lisa? Good to see you, good to see you. Yeah, any questions from Lisa? Shot— shotty— shotty. Um, however I say it, um, any questions from my people? I know there's some, probably some people that are watching this live that I can't see your comments just because sometimes it doesn't, um, come through on StreamYard. Uh, so it really depends where you're watching this from, which is kind of frustrating and annoying, but you know, you can't control it. I can't control what StreamYard allows me to see. It's just a software, you know. Can't, can't get upset at things you can't control. I've been reading a book, talks about Why are you going to lose your cool on things you can't control? It makes no, no sense whatsoever. Don't do it. Uh, only, only get frustrated things that you can control. Like, man, I didn't wake up on time. That's my bad. I gotta, I gotta, I gotta do better. I gotta eat healthier. I gotta wear different clothes because I don't like the clothes I'm wearing. Like, those are things you can control. Um, all right. I have a foreclosure, want to help comp. It or talk me at— or talk me about it. Um, yeah, well, yeah, if you want to, um, I can, I can do it right now and then I gotta go. Um, I don't mind comping it for you, but for me, I think it's a sub-2, not a wholesale. So this is— let me tell you about, um, anytime anyone brings me a deal or wants to talk to me about a deal, Lisa, I always want to know why the seller's selling. That's Like, not so much about the house or the condition. That's important, right? Because there's motivation in that. But like, why? Because that really determines, like you just said, sub-to, subject-to, wholesale, wholesale fix and flip, novation. Like, that really depends where we take this. So if it's a foreclosure, if it's already been foreclosed on, that means that the bank owns it. So you really can't do much with those because then you got to just buy it directly from the bank and you can't really wholesale or sub-to. A bank-owned property, um, unless you, you know, some wizardry that I do not know. Um, if it is in pre-foreclosure or notice of default, like it has not been foreclosed on yet, you would need to catch their— what they're behind. So let's say they— in attorney fees and what they haven't paid in the last 6 months, they're behind $20,000. You'd have to catch that up to make their loan current, and then you'd have to take over their payments. Okay. And the payments would have to be— sorry, the rent would have to be more than the payments so you could cash flow and it would make sense. Or if you make millions of dollars and you're like, I don't care if I lose money, I can do it for tax, for tax benefits and breaks, then you might. I knew a couple of guys that make so much money that they need to— that they don't care necessarily. Depends on the deal if they're not cash flowing a lot or at all. But that's far and few between, and they say that, but I really doubt that they would pull the trigger on something that doesn't cash flow. Okay, let's see. Lost a job, now it's really hard, has fallen so far behind, he doesn't have means to catch up. Okay, you got the auction 6/17. Okay, so this is a— this has not been foreclosed on. Good neighborhood, clean house. Okay, so how much is he behind, Lisa? By the way, everybody, I'm talking to Lisa on the live. She's giving me some, some information on the property. Yeah, so tell me, how much is he behind on that and what is his mortgage payment? That's what we would need to know. And by the way, everybody, what I'm— why I'm asking her these questions is because this is the information I would need to know to run an analysis to see what— if it makes sense on a creative a creative deal, right? Uh, seller finance— I mean, whatever you want to call it, creative, cat— you got to see if there's a cash-on-cash return. Um, you know, my— the calculator I use, which I call the Painless Offer Calculator, because it runs through all the different offers you can make a seller— there's— they're subject-to analysis, seller financing analysis. Subject-to is if there's a mortgage in place. That's the difference, right? Um, and basically you would want to know if it cash flows. And a lot of people, what they do is they're like, okay, well, if it rents for $2,000 and the mortgage is $1,800, I'm making $200 a month. And I would say no, that's not necessarily true because there's, you know, insurance, there's property taxes, HOAs, others. You have other expenses, vacancies, management. So you got to be— you have to understand that just because it's— you can rent it out for a little bit more than the mortgage doesn't mean necessarily you're going to cash flow. You have to take in consider, uh, consideration the other expenses that, um, come with being a landlord. Um, so that's, that's what I mean. Don't have those numbers yet. Uh, these are all questions I have asked him during his lunch hour today. He's supposed to get back to me tonight, but he's motivated, obviously seems to want to work with me. Perfect. Yeah. So, um, just call him, ask him these questions. Okay. Ask him, What does he know? How much he's behind and how much he has to catch it up? Okay, that's number one. Number two, does— what is his mortgage payment with PITI, principal, taxes, principal, interest, taxes, and insurance? What is the total? Right. Not just the mortgage, but like everything, because you want to look and see if it cash flows. That'd be important, too. And then the down payment, that doesn't really matter. Like, we don't— you don't need to bring in like how much money you would give them upfront or if any at all, because you might not be able to if you the, you know, to catch it up might be a lot and you just got to make the numbers make sense. So Lisa, that's what I would do. Let's see. Here it is. I have given him all his options. Not a meat on the bone for much else, for anything other than sub-2 or maybe short sale. Yeah. So you really, when you say meat on the bone, I'm assuming, I mean, you would have to know how much he owes and, you know, his payment, right, to see if it makes sense. Usually you can make these work. A lot of people want to buy properties on sub-to now, even though it can be tricky. I've had some bad experiences by buying properties subject to or contract for deed. If you guys want to know about that, go to my YouTube channel, Painless Nathan Payne. I have a story about how I went to court, unfortunately, when I did a deal. So I didn't do anything crazy. It's just the seller. I let him stay in the property and he didn't want to leave, so I had to evict him. And then the paperwork looked funky. It was, it was, it It was an interesting experience. It happened like 3 months into me doing wholesaling. CEO, what up, brother? Good to see you. Thanks for tuning in. I appreciate you. Yeah, usually not enough profit when you wholesale. You usually got to get properties deeply discounted. And usually if something's in foreclosure, you can— I've done wholesale deals that they've been in pre-foreclosure and they just have enough equity that you can, but most of the time, uh, you just got to cash it up and take it over or, um, do some creative. Most of the time, if they've owned it for years and years, then it's different. Okay, do you sub-to? I do it all. Yep, yep, do it all, Lisa. I've done sub-to, creative, like what we got, contract for deed, novation, wholesale, fix and flip, you name it, done it all, seen it all. Actually, I haven't seen it all because there's stuff that maybe I haven't seen. I can't say I've seen it all, but yes, I've done sub-2. Um, but anyway, guys, if you're watching this and you're like, hey, I like all that you're saying, Nate, but I don't really want to do all that all by myself, like there's a lot of things I don't know, that's why I have painlessflipping.com. We— it's a done-for-you service where we do the hardest parts of wholesaling for you. Um, kind of like what Lisa's saying, she's, she's going through the scenario where she's like, hey, I'm talking to this guy, but I'd have to structure a deal. That's what we do at painlessflipping.com is we actually take over the negotiations, we take over the hardest parts. Because finding a lead, finding a qualified seller, yeah, that's good, that's very important. But being able to take that to the end with all the paperwork and the negotiations and payoffs and all that, you know, that can be overwhelming for a lot of people. So at Painless Flipping, we take care of it. We take care of it for you if you want a partner, or we just give you the roadmap and tell you exactly what you can do. So You know, if you're part of it, we'd say, hey, this is exactly what I do. This is how I handle the situation. Go ahead and do it. And if you're like, well, I don't want to do that, I don't feel comfortable, I'll be like, okay, let's— we can work on the deal, the lead together, right? We can help you get it under contract and all that stuff. So anyway, Lisa, go ahead. Go ahead and get that information. All right. You got this. All right, everybody. I hope that was helpful. Again, I'll admit I did not handle that first call very well. If you go back and watch it, I feel a little disappointed in myself because I should have handled that better. But hey, you live and learn, and we're coming back next week even stronger. See you guys later. Check out painlessflipping.com if you want this done-for-you service to help you out and do the hardest parts of wholesaling for you. Later, later, Lisa. Bye, CEO. Bye, Shadi. And everyone else, see you later. DM me if you need me, need anything. Bye.