002: Billion Dollar Breakdowns: How Could James Clear Build a Billion Dollar Business?

sometimes we overthink it. Everything doesn't have to be the most revolutionary thing. It could just be something cool, right? Like it could just be a cool brand or just a different angle to do something that's currently done, but you're doing it in a new way. Attention is power and creators harness it better than anyone else, but they're not using that attention to create the biggest impact possible and are vastly under-monetized. Hi, I'm Rachel Rogers. My co-host Nathan Barry and I believe you can be a billion-dollar creator. Sound impossible? Over the last 10 years, we followed each other on our own quest to build billion-dollar companies. We've studied creators and seen how entrepreneurs build traditional audiences and use them as a launching pad for a massive business. And it got us thinking, if it can happen for them, it can happen for us. And if it can happen for us, then why not you? Billion Dollar Creator is a show teaching creators how to capture attention and turn it into real wealth. We will deep dive into brands, celebrities, and entrepreneurs who have done it before and show you how you can apply it to your business as an everyday creator. Join us weekly as we learn from both the wild successes and the missed opportunities, the grand gestures and the integral mistakes, and through that, help you become an expert at building your audience on your journey as a billion-dollar creator.

There's a saying, if someone were to buy your business, What's the first thing they would change? Basically, the idea is there's probably things you're like, oh, that's fine, whatever. And someone else coming in like, how are you talking? But no, like we're firing that vendor. We're, you know, whatever it is, like we're putting real SOPs in place for this, all that. But another version of that that I like to think about is if someone else— and pick a specific person, right? So I'm going, okay, if Rachel Rodgers was the CEO of ConvertKit, what would she do? Right. And then like the thing that it made me think of is the level that you have like that high-end community, right? You've got people who are totally bought in, who are, you know, coaching and training across like these different levels in your business. And ConvertKit, for example, kind of operates like all the customers are the same for the most part, right? Or the same level, same style of interaction. And we have our annual event, but there's not like this group of super fans or we don't engage with our affiliates, right, in the same way that, that we could. And so I just had this visual of like the way that you would run it, you'd have this group of like, you know, 100 to 500 people out of the 50,000 total that you're like really pouring into. And they're your evangelists out there.

And I'm like, exactly, you could do that so much better. Yes, exactly. And then it's like, oh, I don't have to run ads anymore. Or like, I don't— there's something you can cut because you have all these people out there, right? You know, and it's also like you said, like there's network effects, right? So What else does being a member of ConvertKit, the community, get me? So like, for sure, like, you should totally do either an event or like a, a community, like a Facebook group related to the Creator Network. Because if I can meet the creators behind these newsletters, they might be more likely to place my ads, right? And it might be like, I can find myself in more places and just exchange, you know, people just wanna be grouped together. Like, it's hard to find people who are doing what you're doing, particularly when you get to the higher levels. So. Yeah, I feel like there's a whole creator network. Like the creator network should have its own event and community, you know?

Right. So yeah, because people are already connecting and all of that. I'm curious, you know, as we're talking about someone else, if someone else were to run your business, do you ever think about that? Of like what someone else would do in my business? Yeah.

Yes. First of all, like, so somebody like you, for example, you'd probably be like, okay, what's a software we can build? Right? Like, what's something— what could we automate? You know what I mean? And it makes perfect sense because I have all of these clients in this community who are all doing the exact same thing and they need the same tools, you know?

Right.

So it's like, it would make sense to build a tool for them that's specific to them. And it's something we've thought about, like with the Coach Cert. We were like, I could see building a coaching tool similar to like what Laura Roder is doing, because as we're talking about this and we're training them to be coaches, right, We're thinking about like, well, how do you track? Like I take notes every time I do a coaching call and then I need to find those notes before the next coaching call. But somebody, sometimes I'm not in my house and I don't have my notebook with me, right? So now I'm in trouble because now I'm like, what did we talk about last time? So if I had a system where it was all automated, right? And it was like I was typing into this thing and then it like almost like gets attached to their next session so I could review it before I talk to them, right? Like almost like having files on your clients. That's one problem that I see with coaches, but there's others that you could kind of build into, like a— was it you that wrote about this? But like, one of the things that was becoming popular with software was like creating the, like, specific to the industry.

Oh, like doing, doing niche in a particular industry.

Yes. Like an Infusionsoft. What do they call it when it's like the—

what do they call vertical market software?

Is that what it is? That's not—

Yeah. So like there's a company called Constellation Software that all they do— this might be the nerdy SaaS, you know, business version of it. There's probably like a more consumer-friendly version, but there's this company called Constellation Software, which I think is just insane what they've done. They basically use all their own capital and they grow entirely through acquisitions and they're like many, many billions in valuation or revenue or something. But they, what they like to find is, you know, they don't want to buy something that's used by everybody. They're like, hey, what's the niche tool used by realtors that then we could buy for $20 million and it spits off, you know, a few million a year in cash flow? And they do that and they own vertical market software everywhere. And so I think they own hundreds and hundreds of companies. So yeah, that same idea, right?

Like having a— I think the phrase I was looking for was CRM, but like the CRM for people who do construction, right?

Oh yeah.

Or like the CRM for people who do like these niches that have all of these like sort of like the CRM for retail, right? Or the CRM for like gyms, you know what I mean? Like Mindvalley is what comes to mind for that. And it's like maybe email is a part of it, but it's not necessarily focused around email. It's like, what's the software that you run your business? What's the software that you run your law practice on? You know? Because I definitely used— I don't even remember the name of it anymore, but there was a software that I was like highly committed to when I was running my law practice because it just made everything that I needed to do easy. So like, I think of that like creating like the CRM for coaches specifically on like just the database side of like how to manage your business and your clients and all of that and all of the different projects. Because the other thing too is coaches tend to launch all this shit. Like I'm doing a mastermind and then I'm doing group coaching and then I'm doing these retreats and then I'm doing one-on-ones and then keeping track of it all. And also making sure you're not overwhelming yourself, right? Or, you know, basically you have the capacity to do all of that. Because we, like, for example, we have a calculator that we've created in a spreadsheet for what, how many people we have the capacity to coach, right? Because I have a team of coaches that do one-on-ones. How many one-on-ones can we do? Because if we include one-on-one in a program, we have to know, can they deliver that, right? So we have like a calculator for like, based on how many coaches we have and how many hours they do a week. How many coaching sessions can we do in a week across every program? You know, so like stuff like that, that's really interesting. So anyway, I think that to answer your question, I feel like somebody like you or somebody who is more tech savvy would look and probably find a software solution in here. And to your point, that's sort of like the billion-dollar creator path, right? To say like, what's the software that all of your clients need that you could sell to all of them? And that would be a no-brainer. You know, like they would all immediately buy it, right? Or switch from whatever it is that they have because they feel attached to the creator. And also they share the values of the creator. And so that makes them say, yes, I want, I'd rather pay you than Joe Schmo software, right? Especially if it's a large company. So yes, I think there's definitely opportunity for sure. And I just, but that's not how my brain works, right?

Well, you gotta find what tool is gonna play to your strengths. You know, there's not even what tool, what, what business model and all of that. But it's a fun exercise to think about someone specific and say, okay, how would they do that? There's a podcast that I like called Business Breakdowns on the Colossus Network, and they just do these breakdowns of— they pick a business and just bring in an expert, try to understand it. They'll take like Trader Joe's or, you know, some, some businesses say, okay, what's their unique angle? You know, how do they get, you know, these low prices? What do they see as their flywheel? And just break down this business. And I like to think, okay, if I were to try to run ConvertKit in the Trader Joe's model or the, you know, something else and just play with those and see if it sparks anything. Because sometimes it doesn't at all. And other times you're like, that's cool. And you like journal on it and write it down and maybe implement something, maybe you don't, but it gets you out of your like box of how you think.

Yeah, your, your lane. It's so true because I feel like founders have superpowers, right? And it's like, what is your specific superpower? What's the thing that like you're really good at? And that's the thing you tend to lean— it's like the thing you know you're really good at that you build your business model around it and you lean on it because you know that that's something that's reliable, that reliably delivers, right? And for me, I would say it's community, being able to build communities. That's That's always been what's attracted people. Yeah. So like, that's our superpower. But, you know, other people have different superpowers. So it's— and that's why hiring is so key, right? Because you're like, okay, this is my weakness now at this level. Who can I get that has that as their superpower that I can bring in and get that superpower working, pairing with mine and working together, you know? But then, of course, those hires are very expensive.

Certain things that you buy at different levels. Speaking of superpowers, did you watch the Alex Hormozi webinar? Did you see that?

I saw it.

What do you think? I want, I want your opinion. And there's so many different things in there. But what did I think?

Okay. You know what's interesting for me is I think in terms of community, right? So if someone has a large community or they have a large following, I think is interesting. I feel, I think it's useful, right? Like he created content that is low cost, that's easy for people to access. I like that part. I think that's great. And it's easy in some ways and not in others, right? It's easy in the price. The price is great, right? The price is either free or you could buy, you know, a collector's version, but, you know, giving away the book for free and say, and giving away a course to go with it for free. The part I don't like about it is I feel like in some ways that's, it's accessible because it's free. In other ways, it's not accessible because it's free, right? Because that— how— what are the chances that people— I feel like people devalue things that are free, you know? And so if it costs you something, you're like, well, I need to get my money's worth. And so you're going to show up and do the work. And I've seen this a lot, you know? So how many people are motivated enough to read through the whole book or go through the course that he created to go with it to get the win, right? And without any community, without any place to ask questions, to lean on each other for accountability, there are all kinds of studies that show that 95% of your success or failure is based on the community that you're in, right? Like, who are your friends, right? And are, you know, they studied students in school. And if you just, if you were somebody who were getting C's, and you started hanging out with your friends who get A's, and all your friends get A's, before you know it, your grades start going up. Maybe you don't get an A, but maybe now you're a B+ student. And it's because you start hanging out with people who have study habits, who are doing things. And I see it even in my own— like, I used to be a couch potato, but now I'm surrounded— all of my closest friends and family members are really into their fitness, and now I've become super into my fitness, right? It's like they've rubbed off on me. And so that is true. And so If you give them, if you give people the resources but no support system to win with those resources, are you really helping them? I think that is a valid question, you know? So, I think providing the resource is great, but I don't really see a lot of community related to it. And I think one of the things about community that's key is that it's not about just the founder or the leader of the community. Like, the members of the community are the hero. They have to be the hero. And there's no hero in that story other than him, right? Like there's no examples really. I think he gave a couple of examples of people who like took a gem and did something with it. Right. But someone who's just getting started, are they going to be able to get that win? Are they going to be able to piece together those lessons and get the win? So I think it's exceptional that he was able to get 200,000 people on a webinar.

Yeah, it's a lot of people.

It's a lot of people. So I think that that's great and that's admirable and it shows that, you know, things like that can totally happen and how big can you think, right? I think a lot of us just settle for less, right? A lot of people just settle for less, but if you wanna go really big, you can. So I think that that was impressive and I think that, yeah, those are my two takeaways. How about you?

Yeah, that makes sense. I was definitely impressed with the size of the webinar. You know, I think, yeah, they had 200,000 people live and a bunch more watching the replay and all of that. One thing that I heard a lot is after COVID that, you know, as people have started to travel more and they were sick of being totally locked up, and like you had this big spike of everything is online, these online tools— we're recording right now with Riverside, that got super popular, you know, Clubhouse became, you know, had its moment and then it was gone. And then everyone was like, look, I want to go back and interact with my friends in the real world and I don't want to do this. And so I heard people in the creator space talking about Like webinars are dead, you know, you can't actually get a bunch of people to show up to a webinar. They don't convert in the same way, everything else. And then Alex comes in and is like, how would I run one of the biggest webinars ever?

Right?

And so like trends are a factor, but you can entirely overcome that. And so I see too many people say like, oh, well, based on seasonality, our numbers are down. And then I've also seen other founders, other teams that are like, screw seasonality. Like, we're going to do something, you know, counter-trend, and we're going to— like, there is this trend happening, but we're going to put in the effort and the skill to overcome the trend rather than just being at the mercy of it. So I thought that was super cool.

I love that, and I completely agree. And I actually— it's one of my— it annoys me when people are like, well, the conditions are such that this can't possibly happen. And I'm like, well, you're just accepting that. Right? Or you could say, what do I have to do in these conditions to still get the win? And just work harder, right? Or do what's necessary.

Yeah, I think you named the conditions because it's important context. You're like, hey, we're going out surfing today and the waves are this and there's some extra wind and whatever. And so here's how we're tweaking our plan, you know, right? But that's it. You're not saying this is how it is and so whatever comes from it happens. You're actually like have agency in your own life and business. And too many people are just like, yeah, well, you know. Yeah. So that was one thing I thought was really interesting how he focused on like did the urgency— well, he deliberately said it— of rewarding people for showing up. He was saying, this is what I'm going to give you if you showed up live. And what he said is, I'm trying to train you that if I say show up live, it will be worth it. You will see that it is in fact worth it. Because I'm basically saying I'm going to keep doing this, you know, in various forms. And I want people to think like, oh, I could make it live, but you know, who knows what. I was thinking of doing something else then. And then your friend is like, no, but show up live because you get, you know, last time he gave this huge value to everyone who was there live. And then also the, like, you have to be there at that point in the webinar. You know, like the state of the end, because sometimes they'll like show up live or state of the end. It's so hollow. Yeah, none of that matters. And so I just thought that the way that he actually did it and I think followed through on it was really interesting. Good, good hooks to keep people. Uh, a couple other things. I wish he hired a designer. Like, come on, obviously it's not needed, but like, and this is the designer in me talking, But those slides look so bad and it gives off an internet marketer vibe, you know, like you might as well bust out some yellow highlighter and, and, you know, have some flashy buy now buttons. And when— if you just put a level of design over that, spend $2,000, someone will make those slides still convert super well, still be really engaging and on brand, but just have this level of like polish and class to them. That, yes, it doesn't have— now he might argue like, no, this, this look of I just made this myself in PowerPoint adds to my brand. And maybe you can make that argument, but I'm like, that's not my vibe. I'm in the design it better or hire a designer, right?

And I know you are too, because your stuff looks so good. Oh yeah, I'm, I'm highly into my design and I think that I think it's important to recognize what people value. And I think when you make things look more consumable and easier to read and consume and enjoy, and when they're beautiful, I think they're just valued a little bit more. You know, like when you make it, I don't know, it just makes you feel like, ooh, what is this? It feels more exciting when it's like beautifully designed versus when it's kind of thrown together. So I thought that was interesting too. It seemed very intentional. I think this is actually how businesses should be built, right? Where you look at like, what are we going to go all in on? And make that our top priority? And then what are those things that we absolutely do not care about and we're not going to spend a single minute of time or energy on it? It actually reminds me of Ramit, right? Like, because that's his sort of thinking on like finances, right? Like that you overspend on the areas that you really care about, that really contribute to your happiness in a big way. And then you just completely spend nothing or the bare minimum, right, on anything that you don't totally care about. And so I'm guessing that there's some of that going on there because he said that he spent a million dollars on this, like, promotion—

the stage and the studio and the promo. Yeah, everything—

ads and who knows what else, right? Maybe getting the books printed. I don't know what all was involved in it, but so clearly he was willing to spend a lot, right? But he didn't want to spend for that. So it seems very intentional. So yeah, that's interesting.

Yeah, the other thing was He did a really good job of anchoring the value, you know, and building up something that you expected to be really expensive. And he was like, I, you know, he went to like $100,000 if I were to coach on this for years or, you know, $10,000 and all that. And then ultimately gave it all away for free and then was like, go buy the book. And so it took you through this arc of where you're like, oh yeah, with that I have to go buy the book. And I think it makes a lot of sense.

I wonder, there was a frame there, right? Well, the, the, there was a frame there with like, with the buying of the book that I thought was interesting. So he was basically like, this is for people who basically need some help, need to figure things out, can't buy one of these expensive coaching programs. And so, you know, this is for you, right? And it's also for people who are already having some success, already winning, and they want to help others. Right? And so the— that— so I feel like he's sort of framed the book sale as, you know, buy a couple of collector's items books, because I don't think it was available— was it available to just buy one? You had to buy like either 3 or 10, um, something like that. Yeah, yeah. So he's basically saying like, if you're somebody who wants to help others, right, because you're already having success and you can make this investment, then make this investment, and then you can give these books away to people in your life who need it. So I thought the framing for that was, was pretty good.

Yep. Seth Godin did that years ago with one of his many books. I can't remember which one where you had to buy two and it was like buy one for yourself and one to give away. And when we first did our I Am a Creator book for ConvertKit, you know, it's telling all these stories of creators who are changing their lives through the audience they built and the earning, the living they're now able to earn. And we first did that model where you had like it was buy two and the price was really affordable and all of that. But it was basically buy one for yourself, give one to someone else to spread this message and help other people.

Yes.

So yeah, he framed it all really, really well. I like the meta example in his talk where he's like, here's how I applied it. Yeah.

So I learned this concept that actually was the brilliance.

I have applied it in this launch. Yeah. And then the how you can apply it like that was, that was a really smart thing and it was just enough structure to the talk. That it kept you coming back. You knew where you were at in it as an audience member. You knew where he was going, but not so much that it was like, you know, I know where you're going, man. This is boring. You know, like it was really well structured and outlined.

I think so too. I feel I like the fact that he was his own test case because he's like, I'm proving the concept right now because you're here at this event with all these other people. Right. Super smart. And I also noted that, like he said, what, how long it was going to be. And then it was exactly that time, which I think is interesting too, because I feel like that's one of the problems with webinars, that they go on forever sometimes and you keep people really long. I noticed that like if I— some— this has happened to us at my company where like we said we're going to do a webinar from 1 to 2, and I know that I tend to talk long. Like once I get going, I got a lot to say, you know? And so then I wind up going over. So I usually tell my team, say 75 minutes or say 90 minutes. And if it's shorter, great, but I'd rather like say the longer time so they know what to expect and plan for it if they wanna be there versus just keeping them late. Cuz then you lose a lot of people when you hit that hour mark, you know? So I thought that was very smart. And if you looked at it too, he started going into the pitch around the 45-minute mark. So under an hour he was going into his pitch, you know, which the pitch was like what you said, very meta. So it was interesting.

Yeah, it was good. Okay, well, I think that's interesting. I'm going to— yeah, we'll play around with webinars more. It's something that we, you know, we do a bunch of webinars and workshops for ConvertKit, so I'm always studying and learning and we'll keep doing that. I don't know that we'll have video built out, but yeah.

One other note that I wanted to say too about— because there were a lot of people, I saw a lot of people talking and some people like, that was so brilliant. He's going to put all business coaches out of business. Courses will never be bought again. Right. And I'm like, that's not happening. For all the reasons that I started with, right? Like community, coaching, all of those other pieces that are important for people to get success. And also because some people will really resonate with his style of teaching and then some people won't. And that's why there are many people who teach, right? That's why there's competition in almost every industry, right? Because this vibe resonates with me, this culture resonates with me, this brand resonates with me, and this one doesn't, right? Like, so It's just about, you know, you choosing what catches your vibe and like who you want to learn from. So anyway, so there's that piece. I think that that's not true. And then there's people who are like, I hate this guy, right? For a million reasons. They don't like the way he dresses. They don't like, you know, all the things and everybody's talking about it. And I'm like, this is success, right? Like this is actually what success looks like. It's people loving you and people hating you, right? And the reality is usually somewhere in between, right? So like, don't let it go to your head when everyone tells you you're the bomb, right? You probably are in some ways, and also you got things to work on, right? And so I just think it's so interesting, like, the polarized— some people absolutely were like so enthralled and loved it so much, and the other people who were like absolutely hated it and wanted to tear it down in a thousand different ways. To me, that's success, right? You've created something that's causing people to talk, that, you know, a lot of people are drawn to and a lot of people are going to be repelled because your particular brand should be strong enough that it does that, right? That it attracts who your people are and it repels the people who are not for you. So that's what, that's what branding is. And so I just thought it was interesting to see it. Like, literally you'd see one message about someone who hates them and like the next one is like, I love him, right? So it's so interesting. The other thing though, that bums me out. I don't know him, and I'm not, I'm not a fan or not a fan, right? Like, I just have no, I have no skin in the game in this, in this conversation. But I absolutely hate that when people are having their, like, moment of success, right, that so many people attack their person, right? Like, their personality, how they look, say mean things about his wife. Like, I'm just like, why? Why do we have to go there? Just say you don't like it. Yes. It's just so— I don't know. It's like people who are successful, we feel comfortable being cruel to people who we feel like have celebrity or have success. And I hate that part.

But I saw some interaction where people were talking about like, why is he always wearing a nasal strip? That looks so weird. He should, you know, and he even has a video where he answers it. He's like, you know, I always wear a nasal strip. He's like, because I have trouble breathing through my nose. And this makes it much easier to breathe through my nose. You know, he's like, I don't, I don't care. You know, but then people are like, there was some comment on YouTube where someone's like, I can't take advice from this guy. You know, he looks ridiculous or something. I was like, let it go. The man is delivering a ton of value, doesn't care what you think about his appearance or anything else. Like, he's, he's actually quite legit and everything he's doing in business. And yeah, I appreciate how he's always giving.

Yes. Yeah. So yeah, I mean, whatever. Sometimes it's, it's the dregs of the internet, right?

Welcome to the internet. You get what you pay for and you didn't pay anything to us. And so there's going to be comments and nonsense and you get it.

Exactly. One question I have for you. This is something that I saw come up and I'm curious what your thoughts are on it. Somebody who is not a fan, right, of Alex said that they felt like the webinar was designed to build trust, right? So like he gives something big away so that he can build trust with an audience so that later members of that audience will come to him and want to sell their company to him because he runs Acquisition.com, right, where he's buying businesses. And so, you know, like he wants to build trust with them so that he can then essentially prey on them and take their equity in their companies or something like that. What are your thoughts on that? What's your opinion on that?

Yeah, so I mean, this ties in really nicely with the billion-dollar creator idea because you're asking the question, what is the best way to monetize an audience? You have all this attention, where— what's the highest ROI I can get from it? And a lot of people are saying like, oh, Alex could be selling this as a course and he could be making tens of millions, $50 million, you know, all of this money off of selling content. And he's like, no, I don't want to do that. You could go another route and you could say, all right, we could focus it on growing our own businesses. He does that somewhat, but he doesn't want his name to be, you know, if he builds up a business and wants to sell it, he doesn't want his name and face to be tied to it so much. And so he's hesitant a little bit with how, how much he does that promotion. The whole premise that we came to with this show is you get equity if you can use attention to get equity. That is the highest ROI. And so Alex is over here going, all right, I'm going to use attention. I'm going to put out ridiculous amounts of free content. I'm going to book my private jet to go fly around to get on all the podcasts I can record in person and all of this, get as much attention as possible. And I'm going to monetize it through saying, hey, sell me a small portion of your business, right? Let me buy equity in your thing and help you grow it. And so I think from that perspective, it's a brilliant form of monetization. And he's making, you know, long term, this is not the 1-year game, this is the 10, 20, 50-year game. He'll make significantly more with that model than, you know, anything else that he could be selling to make money right now. All of that said, I think I have heard from people that some of the term sheets on acquisition.com and some of these other people who follow a similar model, are not great. It's kind of the Shark Tank model where it provides great entertainment. You know, there's notoriety. Maybe you can say, hey, we have these people as investors. But if you actually look at like a Shark Tank term sheet, it's garbage. You shouldn't raise money from them. There's much better sources of capital out there right now. So I've never seen an Acquisition.com term sheet. But if you were smart enough to build your business to $1 million a year, $5 million, $10 million a year in revenue, then obviously raise money from someone you respect. If you respect Alex, go down that road. But like, have your lawyers look it over. You were smart enough to build a $10 million business. Like, you're smart enough to walk something by your mentors and your lawyers and say like, hey, should I do this? So at that level, no, no one's being taken advantage of. We're all smart adults who have smart counsel and have gotten to this point. And like, yeah, that's my take.

I agree with that take. I think sometimes it feels kind of patriarchal to be like, well, they're being preyed upon. And I'm like, everyone can't be being preyed upon, right? We, we're all adults making adult decisions every day, right? Like, you know, Target preys upon us, right? We go into Target for milk and we come out with, you know, $500 worth of shit, right? And it's like, but do we feel taken advantage of? No, we made adult decisions in there, right, to buy certain things. Is their store completely set up and the whole experience and the brand set up to make us want to buy a ton of shit from there? Yes, right. But we don't come for them in the same way that we come for individual creators. So I just think it's, it's important to point that out and just gives people some things to think about. I'm not saying no one ever gets preyed upon in this industry because certainly it does go down. But I don't think the— I don't think it's the $3 million plus in profit business that, that is getting preyed upon when they want to sell and get out. Right. So yeah, I just thought that was an interesting take.

Yeah, there's— if you think about people who get preyed upon, maybe who don't have experience in the business or the industry, or if you think about like payday loans, right, that is definitely a predatory industry. And that's, you know, someone that's targeted at people who don't have financial experience and savvy or other options, right? Whereas Acquisitions.com is targeted at people who are savvy enough to have built a business to this level of scale, have plenty of other options, uh, especially in a time right now where capital is pretty abundant, you know. And they want to invest in and buy companies that with no investment would do just fine. It's not like we're coming in with a bridge loan to try to save the company before it goes under and before you lay people off. It's like, right now we want to invest in businesses that are already doing great and we just want to help accelerate that, right? It's a group with lots of other options. And I mean, a final takeaway, just if someone has like the reality distortion field, like what Steve Jobs was famous for, where you just, you want to buy the thing from them, be around them, like, you know, everything they say is great, just be aware of that. Like, if you go in, know that you're hanging out with someone you view as a celebrity, and that's going to color your otherwise, you know, really sound business decisions. It might color it 2% or it might color it 50%. Yeah, have someone else where you're like, hey, I'm going to be naturally really excited about this term sheet that I get because I think that Alex is amazing or whoever we're raising money from. And so it's just to have this other person out there who's like, Alex, who— like, I don't have any opinion on him and I'll just tell you whether or not this is a good deal and if it compares to other sources of capital and growth that you can get.

Exactly. I mean, that's why you have lawyers. I had a lawyer. My lawyer saved me from a deal recently I have a property that I was going to sell just to kind of get it off the books and to get my capital out of it. And it had increased in value significantly. And he was like, no, I cannot let you sell it. Literally, that's what he said verbatim. And I'm like, why? And, you know, I started— he started telling me why, like the value of the properties are huge. And he's like, if you renovate it and put X amount into it, you're going to see 3x what you would sell it for today. So he was like, hell no. And so I'm like, okay, fine, I guess I'll do the renovation to make a whole lot more money. But yes, lawyers, you know, they come in handy. Yes.

Okay, so you had an interesting point really tying together what Alex's— his whole—

okay, I'm sorry, before you do that, one, one more thing that I just have to call out. You said that capital is abundant. Which I agree in some sense is that loan and access to loans are, but I think is important to note that for especially Black women, it is not abundant. That it's very hard to get capital and the investors, there's, you know, what is it? 2% of investment goes to literally all other people of color.

Yeah, it's crazy low.

It's terrible. So capital is abundant if you're a white guy. I don't think capital is abundant if you're not. It can be in some ways, like there's access to, right? Like crowdfunding and there's different, all sources of, you can get a loan through Stripe, right? Against your, you know, receivables, right? There's different options that are available that are accessible to everybody. So I agree in some ways there is some types of capital that is more accessible, but investment in particular still is not, unfortunately. But, you know, changing, right? Lots of new funds coming up. So that's a good thing.

I think if you look at the historical trends of capital is for all groups is becoming more, more abundant than it has been, obviously, certain groups far outpacing others. And so like fundraising is easier than it has been. And then yeah, if you're in certain categories of network, race, you know, all these other things, then you're gonna have an easier time for sure.

Yes.

So it's becoming what I think the The accurate thing to say is it's becoming more abundant and your access to capital is widely varied based on all kinds of factors.

Yes.

So the point that you brought up that I think is really interesting with Alex is that he is optimizing for equity, you know, and taking this billion-dollar creator mindset. And so I want to talk about that. We're going to make a, a segment on this show, you know, Billion Dollar Breakdowns. And I think it'd be really interesting to take two creators and break down their business based on how we would run it if we had to optimize for equity and build something of massive value. Yeah, the first one I think would be interesting is James Clear. So James has been a friend for a long time. He's— I think last year, the year before, he had the number one bestselling book on all of Amazon. So Atomic Habits beat out like Michelle Obama and Goodnight Moon, which, you know, that's hard to beat. Goodnight Moon.

One of my favorite books to read to my kids.

Yeah. Uh, but I think what's interesting, right, he's selling tons of books, he's getting paid who knows what, $100 grand per speaking gig. He has all these different options, sponsorships in his newsletter, everything else. But that's going to all result in, say, $5 to $10 million a year in revenue, which is insane. But I think for the like the mental exercise, what I want to do is brainstorm, okay, if he had to get to $1 billion in equity, okay, like create that value, how, how would he do it? Okay.

And also, there's a couple of billion. Yeah, let's define $1 billion in equity so people know what we're talking about. How much in revenue do you have annually if you have $1 billion in equity?

Yeah, it's going to vary a lot based on industry. So in a software business, let's say $100 million a year. In revenue. If we're doing something that has agency multiples, maybe, maybe it's going to need to be $200 million a year. But growth rate, all these other things are a factor. And I don't care that much about like the exact numbers, but it's right. So we can even say, how does someone, you know, create $10 million or $100 million in equity or get that? The question is really about how do you take what they're doing now and the audience— like James has an email list of like 2.5 million people. Right? He's got all this, and it's like, okay, what's the best way? How can we create the maximum outcome for that? So I've got a few ideas, and then we'll jump in and do it for another creator as well. Uh, Evan?

Yes. What's your first idea for him to 10x, 100x his return?

Well, I think the obvious one for me is to make an app. If you think about something like Calm or Headspace, and do that for habits. Because something that James has done is picked a topic that's very mass market, right? That's how the book sells so much. If you and I— yes, right— a niche, you know, business advice book, it's not going to sell 15 million copies, you know, because it doesn't apply to that many people. Yeah, well, I think about, you know, following Pat Flynn, and when he got to maybe 100,000 followers on some platform, it was like, that's crazy. You know, he's the biggest in the space, all of that. And then you'd step outside of the space and go to like a recipe blog and they'd be at 500,000 or 1 million and you're like, oh, right, more people care about what to make for dinner on Friday night than care about how to grow their business. Yeah, turns out now maybe the average revenue per user is a bit different, but Calm as a company, you know, they've gotten to $350 million a year in revenue. They're over, you know, definitely over a billion dollar valuation. They have a pretty low average revenue per user, or ARPU. Uh, so maybe it's at like $100 a year that you're making off of every customer, but you can do that for a giant audience. You can do these mass market, you know, like you can get a lot of different people. The marketing is targeted mainstream. Everyone's trying to improve their habits. That's why the book is popular. And so I think that that'd probably be my first choice. The only downsides with that one is that it's fairly expensive to start an app. That's a different problem to, to build up and solve than writing a book. And so definitely require a team. It's not like something you can like say, hey, I'm going to do this little test and see if that works and then we'll go from there. You would have to actually say this is an entire company that we're starting and we're using the audience to kickstart it.

Yes. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean, I think the app is a brilliant play and makes a ton of sense. It, it will be an enormous amount of work upfront. And then huge wins on the back end, like once it hits that certain point where you've got a team and you've got, you know, a lot of customers enjoying it and then also making it stick because it's one thing to start something. How do you make them stick? I mean, I mean, he wrote a book on habits, so I think he could probably figure out how to, how to make the app a habit, right, for his customers. So yeah, there's something there. I feel like I'm more like thinking on almost like more of an educational route or community route.

That's—

well, because that's where my brain goes, right? So I think of like, is there something there where there's a curriculum that's in schools, you know, around the world where like school kids are studying this and he has certified trainers, right, to teach them the Atomic Habits way and apply it, right, like in their daily lives, right, in schools, for example. This could also work in corporations. So there's, there's something there. I could also see like a Habits conference and maybe chapters where it's like, okay, you know, what are we doing, right? And so like this year I'm going to commit to not smoking anymore, or this year I'm going to commit to walking every day or whatever the habit is. And they like basically have a community, like chapters where they get to meet up and they like work on their habits for the year and they kick that habit. And then the following year they work on a new habit. Like, what's a new thing that you want to— a new habit you want to adopt or something else that you want to kick, right? Because it's like, that's the thing about habits is very renewable. Like once you solve one habit problem, you have another, right? So they're so core to life that I think that that could be potentially interesting, like going a more community-based route which seems more aligned with his vibe. I don't know if he's the type that wants to work that hard to build a tech startup, you know, but of course you could always partner with somebody. He could always partner with somebody on that, but that's a— that exactly. But that's another option maybe is to do something like that where like there's chapters and you pay to be a part of the chapter and you get placed into a small group where you work together on your habits. And then maybe there's like an annual conference that ties everybody together. I feel like there could be enough chapters around the world.

I don't know about getting that to make revenue though.

Well, if you have a lot of chapters around the world and everybody's paying dues, let's say everybody's paying that same $100 dues, but maybe they're paying it monthly, you know what I mean? Instead of annual, 'cause they're getting more value from the interaction rather than just the app. And honestly, in this model, you could do all of the above, right? You could have the app as sort of like the baseline, brings the community together, And then the people who want more, there could be coaching that happens and certified coaches who deliver it, right? Like there could be a whole big model, educational model on the back end of that. So I think those are two interesting things. What other applications are there for that?

I think another one would be there's a— if we focus on a specific habit, because some habits are, you know, maybe more expensive or more profitable than others, the varying levels of desire. Like, I don't think you'll ever make that much money, like getting me to actually have a flossing habit, you know, but you might with weight loss, right? That's a much bigger category. There's a company called My Body Tutor that basically has a— I don't even know if they're dietitians. I don't know what the model is, but it's basically, you know, a coach and accountability help around, you know, what you eat and weight loss. And so you're, you know, you work out a plan with them and then they're just like getting on a call with you or texting with you as you say like, hey, here's what I'm going to eat this week and just really helping you be intentional about your life and your food habits and all that. And they'll provide that accountability with you later. I think this business is like mid-single-digit millions a year in revenue and it works really well, at least from people I know who are customers. They say that, you know, they're getting the results from having that outside accountability, I think you can charge more. So instead of like $100 a year kind of with the app price point, you could be at like $100 to maybe $250 a month. And so, you know, you're more than 10 or 20x ARPU. Yeah. What do you think of that one?

I like it. I've seen coaching. So it's an app with coaching, right? My Body Tutor. I feel like I've seen it.

It's targeted to a very specific habit.

Yes, I think that's interesting. And I like— Noom is one of those apps that's like a weight loss app that has coaching with it. I feel like the coaching app—

and they're a couple hundred million a year in revenue for Noom. Noom is huge, but they're also doing layoffs right now, and I think declining a little bit. So it's hard to, hard to find a balance.

But yeah, I feel like it's kind of like exact— it's so interesting, right? Because it's exactly what we started off talking about when we were talking about Alex Hormozi, how it's like if they have the information but no accountability and support built in to take action, are they actually going to do it? Right. And if people are getting results, that's what creates the network effects, right? Because if you have people who have gotten a lot of success, they're going to tell their friends, oh, this is the way to do it. Like, it works hands down, right? And even they will be walking around as a walking billboard, right? If they've lost weight, if they've stopped smoking, if they've stopped doing something, they're every— it's the kind of thing that people are going to notice. And they're going to say like, how are you able to maintain this? And it creates, you know, a whole bunch of people getting referred from that one success story that's walking around, you know. So yeah, I like the idea of app plus support. I think that that, that's super smart and that almost kind of combines our two ideas, right? It's like app but with community, with some support. So yeah, I like that one. I think that's brilliant. Yeah.

Okay, I have a ridiculous one and then a serious one. The ridiculous one, because he would never do this. There's something here that he would never do, but this one he would truly never do. And I think that James needs a tequila, you know, obviously like The Rock is doing it. Everyone else, you should have a tequila. The tagline can be like, level up your drinking habit. No, that's funny. But it would do so well.

Maybe not for with the trends right now with everyone going sober, right? Like I feel like the timing is wrong. The timing is not great. However, if he came up with an alternative, because that's what I was— my wheels were turning around physical products, like what could he create? But if he came, if he came out with products that helped you, because part of what he's teaching is replace the habit with something else, right? That sort of closes that gap for you. So it's like, you know, if you always like to have wine with dinner, but now you can have this other non-alcoholic beverage that gives you the same, you know, like Katy Perry I think is working on a beverage that gives you some kind of high, but there's nothing bad in it, you know, there's no alcohol in it, and there's some other like botanicals or something that gives you a little bit of a buzz, like that feeling of being tipsy. That's what it's supposed to do. I have no idea, I have not tried it, but I could see him maybe creating something like that, collaborating with a company, getting equity in a company that does that kind of thing, and then sending his following there and saying like, if alcohol is what you're trying to kick, this is a good alternative, right? And so like other things like that, like that could make sense, right? If you had like a non-alcoholic beverage that he invested in, right, or that he collaborated with. I also think like something that helps with smoking cessation because that's a habit that people always want to kick. So, you know, something—

the thing that I like about the beverage is it meets that you know, of our rules of a billion-dollar creator is that you have to have that repeat purchase. And a beverage absolutely has the repeat purchase.

Yeah.

So, but I like what you're saying about the non-alcoholic route because Athletic Brewing is a non-alcoholic beer and they have just exploded like a massive, massive business. A bunch of people on our team are big fans of them. So whenever we have a team retreat, you know, we're making sure that we like the bar or, you know, whatever venue we're at has that stocked. So like that could work really well because it, it's both something that has repeat purchase and, you know, it's replacement. It's a good tie-in. You know, James talks about replacing your habit with one that's better for you. I like the idea of tying in his name. Like Clear is just such— James Clear is one of those names that I'm like, that's fake, right? You made that up. You know, you're one of the people that had a different name and then you're like, this is the name that I need to go famous. And so he has his journal that came out with— it's called the Clear Habit Journal. I'm like, okay, that's just too good. And so I think that, you know, you could tie clear into something that's like clear of alcohol, you know, or it's— you can get it in there somewhere.

So yes, yes. Oh, alcohol.

My serious idea that I don't like as much as your nonalcoholic beverage idea. If we think about like different levels of revenue per user, an app is the lowest, you know, the My Body Tutor competitor would be like medium ARPU. And then the highest I think would be like a performance lab. You have all these people who have too much money and are obsessed with, you know, health and longevity. I'm not talking about you, Rachel. I'm not naming names. No, I'm just kidding. But, you know, people want to know, like, get their bloodwork done, understand, okay, how exactly should I be living and all of that. And I think a lot of people would happily drop $10,000 to $50,000 a year if it was like all-inclusive and, you know, optimized everything in their life. And, and you, you hear that, right, with Andrew Huberman and Dr. Rhonda Patrick and Peter Attia and these others who are talking about health and longevity. Yes. You know, people hear all these things and then they're dropping $5,000 on their cold plunge and $10,000 on their sauna and, and all that. So yeah, you could do a performance lab that had like that, the longevity, health, nutrition, fitness, all of that kind of tied together and the community aspect. And that would be a high ARPU offering.

Yes. I think the performance lab would be very interesting because a lot of times with longevity, they're always saying like you need to ask your doctor for these particular tests, right? To like see what they see. Like that's a part of it. And it's, you know, you ask your doctor for the test and they're like, no. You don't need that, right? They're just going to say no a lot of the times. And so that, like, what they're telling you to do is not that accessible. So if you could make that kind of thing, getting your blood work done and tested, like certain things tested a certain way so that you can kind of predict where things could go wrong and then course correct, right? And making that accessible, that would be, I think, very valuable and accessible within reason, right? Because it's not the type of thing that you probably can get done for really cheap. But if you sell it at scale, which he could potentially do with the audience that he has, that could be an interesting play. I do think for him it might be too far over to health. Like, I almost feel like he's kind of like— I could see him doing something like, you want to create a writing habit, you know? Like, that would be right.

It's more aligned. Yes, because he's not an MD. He doesn't, you know, like Andrew Huberman does all this stuff. It's like, well, he's at Stanford with neuroscience. And so that makes more sense, that side of things.

Yeah. Okay.

A couple other rapid-fire ones. I was texting with friends, being like, all right, what would you suggest? And I got some semi-serious ones like the Clear Phone. So a stripped-down version of Android or iOS that removes all the bad habits. Like this is just, you can call your kids.

I actually love that. Yes. I don't know if that's a silly one. I actually think that that's brilliant. You know, like the version of it where you can get— Oh, can it also be black and white?

Because, you know, you talk about like, if you turn your phone black and white, it makes you less, like it's less enjoyable to use. And so you pick it up less often. Well, this is black and white by default. Oh, Okay. My friend Xavier, who sent me this, he says also that it batches text messages twice a day, so it won't even like, like get interrupted all the time. Okay. Maybe that is a good idea.

I kind of, I kind of like it. It does. It does have to have some kind of emergency setting though. Like you got to be able to put some people can break through, right? Because otherwise then you lose all the people with kids immediately, you know.

Okay, Sahil texted me atomic energy. It's an energy water. You know, it's clear. No, I don't know if that works. We're just trying to get like atomic, you know, and clear and all of that into—

with minerals and electrolytes. Yeah, yeah, I could see that.

No, another one that's interesting, I think we tend to think in terms of like apps and like companies more in our wheelhouse, but someone else suggested doing a water brand. Like, think about Liquid Death. They've grown just this insane water brand. I think they're well over a billion dollar valuation and hundreds of millions a year in revenue. And that's been like 3 or 4 years. And then there's some of these other— I think there's other celebrity water brands that have taken off. So it's possible.

So Liquid Death is just water.

It's just a sparkling water. That's it. I thought it was something else, like maybe Liquid Death of some kind. Yeah, I mean, with that name. Oh, it's so funny. So we have the— we'll talk about it more on the show later at another point, but we have the Ghost Town in California and they send up like they are an unofficial sponsor of the Ghost Town and they just send up cases of Liquid Death sparkling water because they just want Brent in the videos on the Ghost Town Living YouTube channel to like drinking, you know, maybe be drinking a can of Liquid Death as he explores this ghost town. And they just like that tie-in.

So it's pretty funny. I love it. But that— you know what I like about that, though? I think it points out that sometimes we overthink it. Everything doesn't have to be the most revolutionary thing. It could just be something cool. Right? Like it could just be a cool brand or just a different angle to do something that's currently done, but you're doing it in a new way. I think sometimes we're like, we have to solve the world's most complex problem. Right? And sometimes it's like, or we could just create a water brand, just sell water.

I mean, I think some of those, the big creator businesses that you see, you know, if you think about like Prime as the energy drink, uh, or Feastables from MrBeast. Like, it's not that— there's nothing special there. It's just like, look, we have this attention. What will our demographic of audience purchase? There we go. Let's tee it up for them and let them buy it. So it's straightforward. I think the other thing that's interesting is to look— whenever you were doing a breakdown on a creator is to look at acquisitions. What could they acquire? Because if you think about, uh, Ryan Reynolds, who's one of my favorite examples of this model of getting equity in something, His two big wins, Aviation Gin and Mint Mobile, are both acquisitions. In neither case, or in both cases, he didn't buy the whole thing. He bought a portion of it. And, you know, and then he said, okay, how can I use my name and face and advertising acumen and production company and all of that to blow this up? Yeah. So if you think about a lot of these creators, they've got cash, they've got access to a lot of people who think they're cool. You know, a lot of rich people who think they're cool, so they could be good, good partnerships. And then you can go on and buy other things, right? So if you get cash, relationships, and audience, then you're going to be in a really good position. And most creators at any scale, right, even if you have 10,000 people on your list and you're talking in a very specific niche, you know, you probably have at some scale cash, relationships, and audience that would allow you to do a deal or an acquisition might make sense for you that wouldn't make sense for other people. So I have no idea what James could or should buy, but I like to think about it.

Well, that's my— that's kind of where I went with just— I don't know him that well. I've met him, but I don't know him personally. But just what I get, the sense that I get from him, I feel like he would— it would make more sense for him to do an acquisition or to just partner, right? Like to say, what brands make sense for my audience, right? Like what brand or what product could align well with my audience and let me partner with them and not in a sponsorship way, but in a, you know, taking equity and doing that whole billion-dollar creator model, but not having to do the heavy lift, right? Like, it's like my heavy lift was I'm bringing this community to you, right, to this product. And so your heavy lift is you got to create the product, right? So that's the, that's the potential partnership, which is great. So I think that makes a lot of sense. And I think when you have an audience of that size, it's great. It's— and also too, it's cool to think about like, okay, what could I provide for them that would help further their journey when it comes to Million Dollar Habits and make it easier for them to accomplish their goals. Like, I think that's pretty cool.

Yep. I like it. You want to dive into one other creator before we wrap up?

Yes. So the other creator that I think we could reimagine or imagine like how they can grow into a billion-dollar valuation is Luvvie Ajayi-Jones. She is a 4-time New York Times bestseller. Her first book was I'm Judging You, then Professional Troublemaker, and then she's got the Troublemaker book for youth. And then she also has Little Troublemaker for kids. My son and I read that one. And she's very funny, so entertaining. And so her books have all been very successful. She's a highly sought-after speaker. I'm sure she's getting $100,000 a gig. As well. What else can I say?

4 books, 4 New York Times bestsellers, each in a different category.

Yes.

That's hard to do, right? Some people are like, oh, I do self-help and I'm in this niche, niche, and I can just keep doing it over and over again. And she's like, no, I think I'm just gonna switch categories with every book. Oh, and hit the bestseller list each time, no big deal. Yes. So that's great. She also has me as a customer, which makes me love her even more.

So yes, exactly. She has— she's had a viral TED Talk. She spoke at TEDWomen. And she has a very big following on social media, a very big following, loyal following. And she's great at like— she has— she does brand deals, like brand, you know, brand alignments where it makes sense, where she'll partner with them. And I feel like I see less like promotional posts on, on her social media. And it's more like her you know, appearing in ads or just aligning with the brand for a campaign or something like that. So, so that seems like what is the makeup of her business at this time. So, you know, what are some opportunities where she could monetize, right? And, and scale with the huge, amazing audience that she has. And I also like, I think she has brilliant advice to give, and I also think she is incredibly entertaining. Oh, she has a podcast, very popular podcast. She had a podcast that was so popular that people— she had to tell people to leave her alone because they would be like, when is the next episode? And she was like, leave me alone, I'm busy, right? It's not happening right now.

This idea, you know, at different audience sizes, you know, she obviously doesn't have an audience quite as big as James's, but like, what are the things that stand out to you that would give her like equity in this growing business? Maybe it's not even at the billion-dollar level, but it's the same concepts behind it.

Yes.

You know, what, what business would you have her kickstart with her audience and what's a natural fit?

You know, there's a couple of things, right? Like, I think for sure, right? Obviously she can speak on— she could even have like almost like a personal brand academy, right? Because she's— she kills it in every category. So when it comes to social media, right, like she is brilliant at that and big following there, very engaged audience, right? Like it's one thing to have numbers, but are those numbers engaged? And she is— she has a highly engaged audience. She obviously knows the formula, right? She has a methodology for writing a New York Times bestseller in all these different categories. Highly sought-after speaker, very popular podcast, right? So if someone wanted to say, like, there's a— I feel like there's a huge amount of people in the world today who want to build their own audience, right? They want to know how to become a popular podcaster, speaker, writer, you know, building a brand on social media. And so she could combine those 4 things like that's her superpower and turn that into some kind of like, I don't know, personal brand academy where she can teach people these different elements and how to do it. What would be even more interesting is if it was almost like a personal brand certification where she had this methodology that she taught people and then they could go out and help their clients with it, because I think it's something that is really it feels really hard for people building an audience, right? And maintaining an audience and being able to exist in these categories and, and have people know your name and actually show up to your stuff. So I think there's something there with like, maybe it's a course business, maybe it's a certification, but there's so much genius there that she could definitely create some kind of education model business that could be huge. Now, could it be $100 million? I don't know, maybe. What are your thoughts?

I think especially if you layered on an agency or services model to it. So you said here's the training and then also here's where we'll do it for you. Like there's a bunch of people I know who have started agencies. I started one with Sahil Bloom around newsletter growth saying, hey, here's all the tactics and techniques. Like we teach all this stuff, we love it, we nerd out on it. But like if you just want to pay someone to do it for you, like there you go. You know, right, for $5,000 a month, you can, you can do that. And so I think there's a lot of people who would, who are huge fans of Lovie's work and say, hey, I want to do that. Can I just hire your agency to do it for me? And so you get it. Could it work in the publishing space? If you look at, you know, Scribe and some of these other publishing platforms where they're like, hey, we'll, we'll publish your book for you. It's like, great, we'll build your audience for you and all that. And Lovie's going to have an entirely different demographic and category of people that she's bringing in compared to, you know, like a very generic or corporate company trying to do the same thing. Yeah. And then she also has the platform to be able to amplify them. And so I think there's a lot of amazing professionals that would say like, yep, sign me up, do that. And then that's a fantastic cash flowing business and you can go through it and go from there. Also, the Sahil Bloom does this thing, I talked about it in an episode of my podcast, where he looked through everything that he was spending money on as a creator.

Yes.

Whether it was newsletter growth or video editing or clips or, you know, all of this stuff. And he said, great, I'm going to follow the Amazon model and turn my cost centers into profit centers. So I'm going to, you know, in Amazon's case, they're like, we're spending a ton of money on web hosting, like servers, just endless money on that. What if we offered that as a product and we made money off of it. And that became Amazon Web Services, which is their biggest source of profit now, many years later. And so Sahil said, here's everyone spending money on— let me invest in, start, or acquire companies for each one of those. And now he's got 10 different companies that he can promote to his audience, and they're doing ridiculously well. We'll do a full breakdown on that in another episode. Yes, it's fascinating. I think Lovie could do something like that as well if she wanted and say, okay, now even build this, help you build this brand. You want to come out with a book, we'll be the publisher for it, right? And go from there because you guarantee a lot of success.

Yes, for sure. And honestly, it also solves the other problem of like amplifying, you know, she has a huge like women and people of color, especially in her audience, that she could amplify their voices, create opportunities for them like to get published, right? Or to get on a podcasting network. I like the publishing angle. I think that I could see her having a really dope, like, a publishing house. That could be something that she could build. Yeah, I feel like that industry is ripe for disruption, and it's being disrupted in these small ways, but it would be interesting to create a publishing house that gives out book deals, that has the distribution, but is more modern, you know, in terms of, like, she obviously knows how to market a book. How to sell the hell out of a book, right? She has the connections and key relationships where, you know, she can link you up with a celebrity, right, for your book deal or for your book tour. So I think that would be interesting too. She could have like a book launching company, right, where she just does the book launch for you. Like she has a team of people who do The Lovey Way, but she could also— or, and/or she could have a publishing imprint And I think it's like, I think publishing is also a business where, you know, you have some books where you just break even. Hopefully you don't have too many books where you lose money, but you have books where you lose money and then you have those winners. It's almost like an investment fund, right? It's like we're going to make a lot of bets and there's going to be some that are runaways. More will be runaways because I'm applying my methodology because I've done it 4 times in 4 different categories, right? And then the runaways like basically make the business. So yeah, publishing could be interesting too. Another angle that I think would be brilliant for her is clothing. She loves clothes, right? She's always supposed— she has like a lovey's shoes. She has an Instagram just for her shoes. She's like big on her blazers. She loves to wear like wingtip, like Oxford-type shoes. And so she's always showing her fits on social media. And so I think that could be interesting for her to create her own clothing line of like You know, she wears— she has like a certain type of hat she often is wearing. I could see her like having her own sneaker, right? Like just having her own blazer that's like, this is the blazer for speaking gigs and important meetings. You know what I mean? So I think that could be interesting.

What I love about the clothing line is it plays into her strengths already and what she cares about. Her audience already knows her for that. It plays into identity, like what you're saying about the blazer for the important meetings. Like that's an identity thing. Like, oh, I'm putting on my lovey blazer because I gotta go kick some ass, you know, and get this contract, you know, like whatever thing, big thing they need to get done. Yeah, shoes work in the same way. And then it also follows the rule of being visible, right, or shareable. We're talking about that with drinks, right? If I'm, if I'm, you know, you have, um, uh, Casamigos tequila, right? That's something that you're sharing with brands, and so it spreads in that way. The blazer, someone's like, hey, I love that look. And you're like, oh yeah, hey, you know, it's from Lovie, right? Yes. That's where it spreads and it's natural to talk about.

Yeah, I feel like she could have a clothing line. Look, her name is Lovie, so she has that benefit too, just like James Clear, where she has a very memorable name, a powerful name that you can totally make it a brand in and of itself, just her first name, Lovie. But also her second book is Professional Troublemaker, and I could see her with clothing line for professional troublemakers, you know what I mean? So it's kind of like, you're professional, and you're here to disrupt, right? Like, you're here to like, take things to the next level, call out what you see, right? And so I could see that sort of being the ethos behind like a brand of professional clothing for women, for example, that's like, you know, it's, it's professional. It's like, it's a suit, but it's bold in some way, right? It's cut different, or it's in different colors or patterns, right? So it's traditional, but not, right? So I I kind of love that. I think that would be dope. I would totally buy Lovey Blazers or Professional Troublemaker Blazers. I love it.

I think— okay, so to kind of wrap it up with one last idea, any of these things that she's marketing or promoting, I think would do really well with a Netflix show. Watching the show— first of all, I did not realize the reach. Like, you know, you know that Netflix is big, right? But Ramit is like, hey, I'm doing a, you know, personal finance-focused Netflix show. And in it, he talks about his book and he talks about his journal a little bit. You know, he'll— as he's working with a couple, he'll be like, you know, work through these sections of the journal. First of all, his book went to number 1 on all of Amazon when the show came out. The book was published a decade ago. Yes, they had a— they had another like 10-year edition that came out a couple of years ago, but it's not like it was a brand new release. And the journal went to number 4 on all of Amazon. And this is a journal, right? And it's beating out, at least for that moment in time, all these other things.

And I saw it was actually— it was sold out for a while. Like, like basically they ran through all their supply, right?

And you think that they bought a lot of supply. Yeah, we have a Netflix show coming out, we should probably stock up, right? So I think that Lovie is someone who, with all of her media experience, with like how vibrant her personality is and everything else, she could do really well with a show. And then it would tie in really nicely with her other speaking, her books, her clothing line, which she has to start a clothing line now.

I mean, this is a must.

Okay, so anyway, and then I think kind of the last thing, the other person I think about is someone like Arlan Hamilton, who is an investor and bringing in, like, bringing capital to so many people who don't have it. And, you know, as Lovie talks about, like, Like, Professional Troublemaker would just be such a great, like, investing capital business, you know, Professional Troublemaker Holdings. I don't know what it's called. Yeah, she's like, hey, if you're a professional and you have an amazing up-and-coming business, like, I would love to be your first check. And that could be something of buying and building equity, especially in people and communities that don't have access to abundant—

Yeah, I, I love the idea of an investment fund. I think that's brilliant, especially with you when you think about she's investing in companies with all of the personal brand experience experience she can bring to it. I also love— I love the Netflix show, but I almost want to take it further and say a production company, right? Like, I could see— I, I definitely see her as like entertain— like in an entertainment space for sure. And so like having a production company where she's producing the shows that we want to see, right? Like in different categories. It could be, you know, something to make you feel good, like docu-series kind of shows. I could see her doing a sitcom. Right? Like having a family and a sitcom type show. I think she could— same thing with the publishing, right? Like vetting ideas and then adding her flavor to it and creating like these really entertaining shows and movies, right, that are missing from the marketplace right now. I think that could be dope too.

I love it. Okay, let's leave the episode there because we could talk forever.

Yes, for sure.

These topics— anyone listening, if you enjoy, you know, billion-dollar breakdowns, tell us, go write a review. If you go to billiondollarcreator.com, we'll have the links to everywhere that you can subscribe, you know, write a review, all of that. But on YouTube specifically, jump in there and write a comment and say, okay, here's my idea for Lovie, here's my idea for James.

Yes.

Or tell us like, here's another creator that we would love for you to do a breakdown on because we'll nerd out and have fun on that any time.

Yeah, it'll be great. Listen, we're going to turn everybody into billionaires. I'm enjoying this. They just have to do the work.

But if any two people could pull it off, I think it's us.

I agree completely. All right, Rachel, good to hang out.

The next episode that we're going to drop is the actual first intro that we first recorded before we were figuring out some of the concepts. So if you're tuning in and you're like, who are these people? We're going to cover that in episode 3. And yeah, have a good rest of your conference and event and we'll chat soon.

Thank you. All right. Bye. Thank you for tuning in to this episode of Billion Dollar Creator. If you enjoyed this episode, please like and subscribe, share it with your friends, and leave us a review. We read every single one. If there is a company you want us to profile on Billion Dollar Creator, send us a message on social media and we will consider it. Thank you, and we will see you next time.