Beyond the Blueprint

Ah! Startups get party started— Whoo-hooo!! —start ups get them partied start-ups got their parties starting you want tech n tacos? Tacos Tech?! You know we gotta it hey!!! Startupz gets da pardee startupzz ghet tha paarty staarted startups git thuh paaar deey... Staaaarts upsss geetthuuh pooaar teeeyyye starrrupts geeetht thee poowdy starrupss gehtteehhh parti starreddd yew ant teckn tuckoz zackozen tecch!? Y'know wye yaht haehey!!!! Heyyyy!!!!! Wahooooooohhhh! Aaahhaaaaa! Yeah boy yeah boyyyy ahahaahaha haha ha— Oh wow that's cool man I'm like blown away by this setup dude okay so welcome to another episode of The Cactus Club Podcast on my channel YouTube.com/Cactuzinews oh shit holy fuck what was dat?? That looks awesome bro look at all those lights behind me yo guys check out these beautiful fucking lighting effects right here aweeehmwheeem whaoawwwwww wooohooyay Welcome back to the Tacos and Tech podcast.

I'm your host, Neal Bloom, and I'm thrilled to have on Janine McMurtry, Chief Commercial Officer of Picktorr. Hey, Janine, thanks for joining the pod.

Hey, Neal, it's great to be here. Thanks for having me.

It's great to have you here as well. It was so nice to meet you in person recently at our life sciences event in Carlsbad at Pickdor HQ, or the US HQ for Pickdor. So thanks for having us. And then also second time having Pickdor team on the pod, but first time for you. So thanks for being here. Appreciate it.

Great to be here. Thanks, Neal Bloom.

Well, I think it's been a little over a year now that Pickdor has been in the United States, and I think it'd be cool to hear— people love a good story, progress story. So I know we're going to talk a little about that. You know, like where is the company now. But first, I want to get to know you. Where, how did you end up here at Pickdor and take us a little bit through your career journey?

Wow. Yeah, it's been a journey. So I've been in the pharma world and then the life sciences for quite a while. I actually started my career at Amgen. So I was doing a lot of their advanced sequencing and running their labs that was We were running through clinical targets and things like that. And then I moved on into industry. I went to Applied Biosystems, but really was part of the genomic revolution, which was super exciting. It was like a really cool time to be a geneticist in the technology space when, you know, we were just figuring out what the genome meant and then, you know, going from humans to other species. And, you know, that's just really sort of dominated the biology world for the past few decades. So I went from Amgen to Applied Biosystems, as I said, and then ended up that sort of trajectory at Thermo Fisher, which is in Carlsbad. So I, I have a huge breadth of contacts in the industry. I've been there for many, many years. Went to a small company called Agena Bioscience, which is in La Jolla in UTC Mall, and I joined their team to help flip that company from being more research-focused to more clinical-focused. So really more in the diagnostic space. So that is my background. And had an exit. We sold that company to Mesa Labs. So that is always a fun time. And then I went to a small proteomics company startup that's based in Philadelphia called Mobile Ion. And from there, kind of getting into that proteomics space, I reconnected with Jamie Platt, who is the CEO of PicTor, who I have known for probably 20 years. She's super smart. Uh, she has had a few exits of her own, and when they were looking for someone to lead their commercial business, it seemed like a really nice fit. So that's sort of the long circuitous way that I came to be with Pictor. Uh, and then I officially started when we flipped to our headquarters to the US and based in Carlsbad. So we, we sought out a space, we built a lab, and we've just been having fun ever since.

Amazing. Can you give us a little bit more insight, just for the San Diegans in the audience? How'd you pick Carlsbad? I mean, I think we kind of heard a little bit of it from your background, your network, but you know, it was good to hear for a sound bite.

Yeah, well, I mean, if you think about the greater San Diego San Diego area, which is Carlsbad included, you know, it's really life science tools heavy. It's got a nice focus on that, but then it still has this startup mentality. There's a lot of opportunity for building things. And then if you think about all of the access that you have in being in the greater San Diego area to not just the science but also the engineering and the talent pools associated with all of that software development, hardware development. And then even beyond that, we can grow not even organically, right? We can— we have— there's manufacturing partners, there are— I mean, there's just so much, um, uh, to be gleaned from being in this area, as well as the weather. So I mean, I can't underscore that enough, but it's, it's great weather, great people, and then access just to this enormous ecosystem.

Yeah, it's true, uh, which an ecosystem like you've seen in many other places that just naturally over time has matured and companies have gone from start to finish a few times, like you have in your career now, and therefore the talent has matured together too. And so you kind of get— end up getting this density, right, of both the talent, tools, and space and opportunities, which is pretty cool. That's an ecosystem, I guess, uh, right? There's an ecosystem to join.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and I might have missed the investors, right? So the investment community is really strong in Southern California. And it has the right mindset, very nimble, and it's willing to take a risk on smaller organizations that have leadership with proven track record. Yeah, 100%. Yeah.

Well, take us through a little bit of Pictor. What's the commercial side look like from a company? Because most people know biotech and specifically tools— well, less on tools, but a lot in life sciences is a long path to commercialization. You obviously have been through that route a few times. So you know, a little bit of how the corners start to round, right? Or the dotted line to cut a corner, even in obviously the most legal way. Like, what's the path to commercialization that you're seeing now?

Yeah, so we're a platform company, which makes us very broad, right? So, you know, we have the wet lab, the hardware, and the software that makes up our platform. And that in and of itself can be a slippery slope because you can be so many things to so many people, and it's really about focus. So when we go, our commercialization path is really about focusing on a partner-led model that is very capital efficient. So we have partners who know their audience, they know their markets, and we're building products for them to deploy. So we're not doing market development. We are really looking at partners that have high volumes and they need a low-cost alternative to what— either what they're doing now or to something that they just don't have access to today. So we have a very cutting-edge product and we are a proteomic company, so we can look at an array of antigens, antibodies, proteins and give a single answer out of sort of a very complex pool of biomarkers. Yeah, so it's, it's, it's really unique. But again, it feels very much like when we were going from big genomic data to a deployable tool that can give an answer in a, in a not only very quick and cost-effective, but also in a very discernible way, right? So it's a lot of information that needs to be distilled down into an answer that has a readable human element to it. And so we're putting all of these pieces together. And, you know, in a nutshell, that's what we do at Pictor. We have a few off-the-shelf products, but generally we are doing very bespoke products for our partners. Amazing.

But for those not specifically in diagnostics world, like, take us through what is proteomics and, and even biomarker mean, kind of like at the customer level, right? Like, what does that mean to, you know, the person who's going to be impacted by, uh, this, this diagnosis tool?

Yeah, yeah. So, um, I mean, even take a, a— I'll take one of our off-the-shelf products. So we have a product that looks at, um, for HIV. So if you've been, uh, infected and you want to know, um, uh, do you need to take a particular drug, but there's a lot of what we call comorbidities with something like HIV, right? So you might have HIV-1, HIV-2, hepatitis B, hepatitis C, and all of that is going to present similarly but have different ramifications in terms of treatment. And, and even from a from an epidemiological standpoint, how you would manage and maintain populations. So we can test for all of those things at the same time and give a result very quickly at a very cost-effective point. Amazing.

Yeah, it's huge. And I think, you know, we've come across in the diagnostics world a long period— and you can give us a little history of it— of just like the very specific test for one thing for a long time. The dream was the everything machine. And of course, that first version was a bit of a balloon pop for the world. I think we've gotten past that. Okay, maybe it really can be done, right? Maybe a platform can do many more things than— more than one things at a time. Take us through that. Like, what is the value of having the platform? And what does that really unlock for maybe, you know, the healthcare system, the patient, kind of that full ecosystem.

Yeah, yeah. And I like to start with like the drug developer, right? So you're developing a drug, you really need to understand what the patient response is in real time. So our DNA is awesome because it tells us, it's our blueprint, right? So if you're going to build a building, it's blueprint. And, but it's just sort of an estimate of what the actual building looks like, right? You might start digging and hit a rock and you can't, you know, you have to modify the blueprint, something like that. But in proteomics, you're actually looking at real-time changes in the body. So you're looking at proteins that are in response to exercising, eating, infection, all of that. So if you can take a real snapshot of what a patient is going through when in response to a drug, that is so much more informative than estimating something that's going to happen downstream from a genetic blueprint. So this is why it's really interesting, because at different time points you're going to have a different proteomic response, and we can measure that. And that's really important to drug developers, right? Because they can see are you responding to that drug, how quickly, and in real time. So that downstream helps the patient, um, and, and helps our, our healthcare system. Um, and the fact that we can look at multiple things at once and really get a broader sense of, of what's happening instead of just one thing or having to do 20 different things in 20 different tests that become time-consuming, expensive, and just taxes our healthcare system. So I think it's, it's really beneficial on so many different levels. Yeah, but it's not—

it hasn't been cheap to build diagnostics even for one specific, you know, test. But you guys, I think I've heard, has been pretty capital efficient. Like, how do you, how do you balance that?

Right. So we are staying out of the IBD space today, and we are not going down a path where we are developing a single test. That's where this partner-driven model really makes sense. So partners can develop a test that can be associated with the drug, and, and then, you know, we'd have that capability down the road to take it through an FDA-regulated product. But we do have a system that allows diagnostics to be used in the lab-developed test space. So it is individual labs, they validate the test on their own. It's our, it's our product, but they're actually doing the testing. So that burden sits on them and that allows them to be really nimble because as you say, this product process is very expensive, but it's also very inefficient for innovation. Yeah. 100%. Yeah, I think it's interesting.

I mean, obviously, especially when so much is out of the control at the FDA level to a company, right? Um, you know, what, what companies need is consistency at the regulatory level, and you can't always get that. Uh, and so having another pathway that says we're going to build everything up until then, and then the partners will actually do that part, uh, on them based on where they see the biggest need right? They're going to actually do it based on their own poll, their own customer poll, their own payer poll, their own areas there. So I think it's really smart, you know, to give you multiple pathways and a lot of irons in the fire, uh, to see, you know, where is the biggest need for individual tests around that. Is that kind of the right way to think about it?

I think that's the perfect way to think about it. And, and also, you know, screening doesn't need, you know, um, it needs volume, deployability, and nimbleness. So our, our business really spans a lot of organisms, if you want to put it that way. So we do everything from cattle to companion animals all the way up to humans, and there are different needs in all of those different spaces. But our company started in New Zealand, and one of the, the big test that we have is for cattle diseases. And as if you can imagine screening cattle herds, you've got to be able to do that quickly, efficiently, cost-effectively, and you have to be able to react to different diseases that may pop up in the population.

Amazing. Well, I think you have a kind of announce— big announcement coming up. Can you give us a little foreshadowing? Can we hear a little bit about PICTIMAGE?

Yes, so we have a new version of our PICT imager that is being launched at ADLM, which is at the end of July in Anaheim, and that's a big diagnostic manufacturers conference that happens every year. And our new PICT imager is a new version of what we've learned from our earlier versions of our instrument. And what it does is it takes all of this biomarker information to— and turns it into images. And then we take those images through our software and actually tell, um, uh, diagnostic developer or a veterinarian or a doctor what that information means in a practical sense. And If you think about this, this is really the interface between science and reports, right? To— and, and the patient, whether it's a cow, a dog, or a person. And having that be incredibly robust, deployable, cost-effective, right? We want to make sure that we don't price anybody out of this market. We, we want, um, uh, to be able to provide this testing as broadly as possible. And then it also has to be scalable and in a couple of different ways. It has to be scalable within a laboratory, but it also has to be scalable because right now we're doing proteins and we know that we have so many other capabilities and multi-omics is really where, you know, these markets are going and we want to build in the capabilities to deploy into multiomics. So that would include lipidomics, proteomics, genomics, all on the same platform. So we're really excited about what this unlocks for us and, and, you know, all the future potential.

Amazing. Well, congratulations. Thank you. I do— maybe we make this an annual thing. Every year we just kind of check in and see how much, you know, how you guys are 10x-ing every year, which is, uh, which is what it looks like at this point. Pretty cool. I know you have a global presence as well, right, with a presence in New Zealand and Canada and elsewhere. How does that— I'm guessing that helps inform, you know, I know the US is a big giant market, right? But you get to understand a little bit of the global market. Like, what can you share with us a little bit who are very US-centric and US-focused? What do you hear in other countries? What is the opportunity? For companies locally to go abroad and vice versa? Where do we see more global coming more to here because of the density that you guys are building within?

Hmm, maybe I'll start with the second half of that because we were founded in New Zealand and came to the US. And I think the opportunity there, as you know, I'm probably preaching to the choir here, is that, you know, there's more investment, there's more access to all of the talent as well as the engineering on both the hardware and software capabilities. So, you know, there's a ton of opportunity in the US. However, coming from a much smaller country and being founded there, you know, not everybody moves at the speed of the United States. And it's interesting to see other markets growing slower and more cautiously in the healthcare areas. And that is actually what we think is a huge opportunity for Pictor. Again, we're trying to be incredibly accessible with a price point that, that, you know, doesn't, it doesn't kill a small country that's, you know, really trying to innovate. So I think that, that, that is where we're seeing the differences, right? It's the speed of adoption. And then of course there's regulatory, you know, there's so many things that are barriers outside of the US, but the markets are, it's also really important to be in the countries where you're trying to build. We have such a community in New Zealand because that's where we started. They're really proud of homegrown businesses and we never want to lose that. So, you know, it does give us a little bit of an advantage there because we are, you know, on our home court. We have an entity in Australia as well, and we see that as a very growing market for healthcare as well in human, in the human space. And then of course, they have have a huge agricultural market that I think we played very well in. We also have an entity in India, and where that makes sense is the cost-effective nature of not only our platform but our assays, because that's a very large market, but the margins are pretty razor thin. Interesting.

Wow, so much opportunity. We love it. Yeah, yeah, it's exciting. And the diagnostic community, obviously, you know, you get your team participate in the Rising Tide Partners diagnostic roundtable just a few weeks ago. You know, it's really strong here. And so just seeing how everyone is moving forward, but also sharing and learning from each other here, it's a very collaborative environment, which has been great as well to see.

Yeah, I agree with that. I mean, that actually is one of the really fun things about being a small organization in the greater San Diego community is everybody just wants to dig in, talk about problems, solve them together, and then, you know, being part of the ecosystem just really helps in that process. 100%. Yeah.

The other part that makes our ecosystem, but also has some global roots into it, is our taco scene. Obviously, we have some pretty good tacos here, But look, there's tacos all over the world. So I'm sure your team— I wonder if your team has done its own poll across everyone worldwide, where would be their favorite taco spot. But just for you, Janine, do you have a favorite taco spot yourself?

I like Pego's in Encinitas. And I grew up in Canada. And I knew nothing about tacos. I thought I might have known tacos, but I knew nothing about tacos when I came to California. I eat tacos as often as I can. I make them at home, and our local scene is awesome. We had tacos at our event that we co-hosted a few months ago, and that was really fun. So, but I love that idea about sort of going global with the taco thing. I'm not sure. Yeah, I'm not sure about New Zealand having good tacos, but we'll have to explore that. We—

I mean, there's been bread and meats put together in every country. There's got to be a New Zealand version of this for sure. Um, but let's talk— all right, let's nerd out on tacos a little bit, especially to where you are right now. But first of all, Hago's is fantastic. Love it as well. So fresh. It's like the freshest, you know, taco you can have. And the scenery on the wall is like some of my favorite off of my favorite movies too. But, um, Manny's Tacos, as you mentioned at the Pictor Carlsbad event, has become a go-to favorite. We've used them at every event for the last 3 months now because they're so good as well.

Fabulous and super efficient. We had a pretty big crowd there and they were just dishing them out as quick as we could eat them. It was fantastic. Yeah.

You, I know you are sitting in Thousand Oaks, California, which just next town over of Newbury Park is the original Baja Fresh, was the original first store of Baja Fresh in Newbury Park. I think it's gone. Unfortunately, I think the original first store might be gone, or is it still there?

Yeah, it is gone. I think we now have one in Thousand Oaks, and the Newbury Park location has closed. Legendary. So talk about legendary, and I always— yeah, I won't say it out loud, but they make the best— they've got great tacos. Great, um, chile rellenos, um, is the Latigo Kid. Did you ever go there? Oh no, it's in Agoura. They're in the Wizen Center and now they've moved down Canaan. They've been there since probably the late '60s or early '70s, I think. Okay. Yeah, I actually— we had my, my son get married a couple years ago and we had his rehearsal dinner there because we just It's like our Friday night hang.

Yeah, I love it. I'm looking it up off Canaan right there. Yeah, Canaan and Tia Boulevard, right?

Yep. Yep. Not far from there.

Got family around the corner.

Uh, well, you have to go. Totally. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All right, great. We got some new additions to the Tacos and Tech Taco Database, which we, we keep up with every, every spot mentioned on the podcast.

All right. Well, I'm glad I could add them. To that. Yeah, yeah, we love it. The owner, Diane, she's amazing. So, uh, tell her I sent you.

Okay, you will, for sure, for sure. When you have— when you host a family event at a taco spot, that is the biggest raving, uh, review for sure.

So I completely agree.

Well, Jenny, this has been great. I've been so appreciative of your time, but even more your team's just engagement in the community while also working on something big, right? I mean, you're building a big platform, you're focused, but you also are So community first, which we appreciate, and we look forward to doing more together with you. And thanks again for being on the pod.

We'll see you in a year.

Yeah, exactly. All right. Thanks so much, Neal. Bye, Janine. Take care.

Bye-bye.

Counting beans. Contador cuentan frijoles. Founders trying to raise some queso. La vida San Diego. School of Rappi. Rappin' fire. Tortillas, round jalapeños. In these modern times of craft beer and coffee. Makoto yoga, Posse. Fold the body origami. We be surfing Coronado. Eating tacos el gordo. The tacos tienen puesto. Lucha libre en sombrero. Gara sha. Tech Coast Angels by the ocean, watch the sunset. La Jolla shores, entrepreneurs tryna get funded when San Diego Startup Week is poppin' in the summer. Oceanside to Tijuana, SD be full of hustlers. From couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach. Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach. We interviewin' founders who be shootin' for the moon. #SDTacos with your host Neil Bloom! Come on! Startups get the party started— startups get the party started... You want tech n tacos? Tacos Tech?! Ya know we got it hey!! #StartupsGetThePartyStarted— startups get the party started... #StartupsGetThePartyStarted! Startups get the party, startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech, you know we got it. Hey!