Peter Goldsborough, CTO of Rune, explains how military logistics still runs on pen-and-paper and Excel despite being historically decisive in wars. His startup's software aggregates inventory, vehicles, and personnel data in real time. Without it, militaries become reactive and vulnerable in high-speed conflicts.
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And welcome back to the Tacos and Tech podcast. I'm your host Neal Bloom, and I'm thrilled to have on Peter Goldsborough from Rune, co-founder and CTO. Hey Peter, thanks for joining the pod.
Hey Neal, thanks for having me. It's great to be here.
It is great to be here with you, and thanks for joining us on the other side of the country there. Uh, I You're inside, you're warm, which is good because it's a little cold out right now.
It is cold outside. You know, it's funny, I was just in Colorado Springs the past few days and you'd think that high up and in the mountains it'd be colder than here, but not right now. It's very cold here.
Well, luckily we all of us are heads down busy building because it is build season right now. And so everyone's inside just punching away at building the next hardware, which I'm excited to talk about. You've been a part of a bunch of developing a lot of really interesting hardware and software, and now work on Roon. Do you mind giving us a quick overview, high level, what Roon is?
Yeah, absolutely. In short, Roon is a company focused on military logistics technology, right? We think that's one of the key missing areas of investment when it comes to defense technology in the past few years, and that's our bread and butter. That's what we go deep on.
Amazing. Well, there's a huge, huge need. There's been so many, you know, macro global events that have happened to highlight that need recently. And we're going to dive deep into all of that. But first, I want to get to know how you found that need. Where does it all start for you as a young Peter getting into the technology world?
Yeah, I mean, you know, before, before Rune, I was at Android for a couple of years, for 4 years as a software engineer and chief engineer at the end. And I had the opportunity there to work with some incredible people and some incredible programs and really important problems. Most importantly, in the command and control space, in the fire space, intelligence. And I eventually just realized, you know, there were a lot of really important problems being worked on, but none of them seemed to be focused on logistics. And, you know, I'm a bit of a history buff, and I just knew that most major wars in history were won or lost based on logistics, right? Even World War II, whether it's in the Pacific or in Europe, logistics was key, right? I mean, whenever you saw Masters of the Air, the recent sort of show there, when they were doing bombing raids, they were going after factories and supply lines, right? Logistics has always mattered. And then when I looked at what logistics looks like across the DOD today, what I saw was whiteboards and Excel spreadsheets and pieces of paper. And I just realized, you know, nobody was putting that same level of emphasis on logistics. And, you know, from past history or even Ukraine, that just seemed like an oversight. That was going to come back to haunt us.
Yeah, 100%. Well, okay, we're going to get there in a second. But why software engineering for you? What was the first, like, introduction to it? And what would you remember your first project you built?
Yeah, so, so a little bit about me. So I was, I was born and raised in Austria. My dad's American, but my mom's Austrian and grew up in Austria most of my life there. You know, I got introduced to software engineering when I was about 15. I'm entirely self-taught. My high school was a language school. I learned French and Latin, and I had like an hour of math every week and no computer science. So for me, it was all online, and I just fell in love with it. I think I'm a builder at heart, and I found something that would let me build and use my creativity. And it's obviously helped me build still today.
Yeah, I'm sure. Man, who could have thought large language models would change a little bit of the game of building of software? But you've joined, you've done both startups and, you know, big tech to a certain regard. I'm curious, through that journey, have you seen how technology and software specifically has been developed differently? I mean, do people master, you know, building software, or is that all off the table now in the age of AI and code copilots and all that?
You know, I do think I'm glad I was, you know, I grew up in an age where AI wasn't there yet because I did have to actually learn the hard things about hard things in a way and understand the nuance. I think, or even just internally at Rune, where we just had discussions around, you know, AI is so helpful as a productivity tool, but if you don't have the taste to look at, you know, what it's doing, whether it's the right thing, you could actually end up in, you know, with accumulation of a lot of tech debt. And so I'm glad that I actually learned the core skills and now I just feel like I'm— I have superpowers and I can have 50 versions of me, you know, as agents doing, doing the work. But I'm glad I have some, some classical training, as we may end up calling it in a couple of years.
Right? Yeah, totally. The other big piece about product development is who you work with, right? And knowing how to work with people. Really, it's the communication style, right? Division of labor. And what I noticed about your background is, you know, you've worked, I believe, you know, Facebook to Android to now, I think, I'm guessing there's some people who've worked together in a few companies together, right? There was the Oculus crew that got ingested into Facebook.
Yeah.
Did that, was that some of the, the talent and team that have kind of built together over multiple companies?
Yeah. I mean, I even brought some of my peers from Facebook to Amarill, um, after I joined because, you know, I, I was like, hey, this company is really awesome, we're building some important things, and, and the technology is, is really interesting. And, you know, good people like to work with good people. And so, um, yeah, I just wanted to have, have my friends around, and I brought a couple, couple with.
Yeah, I mean, talent density means a lot, right? Like, having to go search for talent versus knowing you've got someone ready to, to just call and say, hey, we're building this thing, come join us. That saves time, which saves product development, which saves iterations, you know, with the customer. Uh, does that— did Tell us a little bit about kind of early Anduril days around that. Like, what was the difference in speed that you saw product development compared to Facebook? I don't mean to put the two of them together, by the way, just like big tech and startup tech. Like, what's the difference between the two of them that you've seen in terms of product development?
Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, Facebook obviously had the move fast and break things motto. But, you know, towards the tail end when I left, you know, it had grown well beyond that. And, you know, it was not moving fast and it also stopped breaking things, which is probably a good thing at that size. But when I joined Anduril, we were about 200 people and we still had that nimble agility to actually move fast and not break things because in the DoD that's also important not to do, but to actually just have small focused teams. And the thing that I really, really enjoyed about Anduril, and I think that also helped us move faster, is people actually really truly cared about what was being worked on. The mission really mattered and sitting next to people side by side who actually cared about what we were doing, that was really motivating and that made the long nights a lot more palpable.
Yeah. What about just adding hardware as a dimension compared to big tech where it's all software? Suddenly you're not the big player per se, the big department. What's that like being a software developer providing hardware?
Yeah, I mean, I certainly, when I was at Facebook, did not think that temperature or vibration was going ever going to mess with my software. So I think it was a really interesting realization that, you know, the physical world is hard and it'll, you know, every constraint you forget about or glance over is going to come back and bite you. And so that was a really unique insight in Anduril, you know, building hardware and software for hardware is, yeah, the physical world is actually really difficult.
Yeah. And obviously a challenge worth taking on because you've leaned into it in your own startup now with Rune. Take us through a little bit of like the problem that you see, you know, what is your customer really screaming, saying, right now, solve this red-hot thing?
Yeah, you know, the, the red-hot thing is, you know, we're— a lot of innovation is happening in the DOD and preparation for conflicts that hopefully never happen. And as part of that, we're developing new weapon systems, whether that's hypersonic missiles, or autonomous drones, or swarms of drones. And, you know, even new doctrine, right? The Air Force has something called Agile Common Employment, which is about how do you actually operate with the Air Force in the Pacific on islands and do, you know, sort of split squadrons. What has happened over the last few years is that, you know, much of the DOD has woken up to the fact that, you know, there's a logistics tail to this, right? So, you know, if we're going to have thousands of drones, you know, we need to think about how those drones are going to get fueled, you know, where the spare parts come from, right? If we're, if we're shooting missiles in the Pacific, you know, where are those coming from?
Right.
Or if so, basically that logistics tail that has often been overlooked is now becoming a priority. Right. And even, even recently, you know, Department of War published its new priorities and contested logistics was one of the six. Right. Which is actually a relatively novel development. And so, you know, with Roon, we're sort of fortunate that we started Roon at the right time. I often think if we had started 6 months earlier, or certainly 12 months earlier, nobody might have actually cared enough to fund us or to actually, our customers, to invest in us. And now it feels like if we'd started 6 months later, we would have been too late because others also realized there was a there there. And so I think the timing was actually pretty important for us. Yeah.
Well, not many people think DOD and think speed and timing. They think, okay, an RFP is coming out in 3 years on something. What's the difference now that it's Department of War? It's not just a title. It's like a complete phase shift. What's that like, you know, as that as a customer?
I think, you know, there's obviously a lot of urgency that we're hearing in the news and the Department of War around, you know, preparing for conflicts that hopefully never happen, right? You know, like urgent missions. You're right that, you know, historically, your contract mechanisms and innovation efforts didn't actually match up with that urgency. It's like, we have to be ready to fight tonight. But, you know, we're gonna do this, you know, 3-year prototype effort to like get there, right? That doesn't really match up. I think so much has changed now, you know, with, with efforts like the Defense Innovation Unit, the Marine Corps Warfighting Lab, programs like Next Generation Command and Control, there is an urgency now in the innovation of technology and the procurement of technology. And, you know, also realization that, you know, commercial industry moves really fast, and therefore, the Department of War can benefit from that urgency. So I actually think we're now at a time where the urgency of the mission matches the urgency of the acquisition processes. And, you know, the administration and the Department of War have done you know, some really valuable reforms there.
That's a huge innovation in its own regard. I mean, thinking about, you know, a trillion-dollar-funded agency of its size to actually get its gear together that quickly. What does that do kind of on the whiptail to you? I mean, as an early-stage developer of technology, like, obviously, you guys can move fast, but do requirements change? Or, you know, I guess that just means be with the customer, which is why you're in DC, as often as possible, like, take us through that, like, where's the nexus and where's the learning and iteration coming from for you guys?
Yeah, you know, I think back to our— when we were pitching, pitching Rune to our— yeah, before we had investors, I'd always say the only thing crazier than starting a company is starting a defense company. It is really hard. And there's just a lot of intricate knowledge needed to how to navigate the Department of War and the acquisition process. And it's, you know, it's unfortunately kind of situation where It's a moat for anybody who's not, you know, deep in that knowledge, and also an advantage for everybody who is. But, you know, we obviously like learned that knowledge and brought a lot of it with it with us. But what I'm seeing now is that there's many more entry points to that sort of like walled garden of knowledge, right, with the Defense Innovation Unit, Marine Corps Warfighting Lab, you know, in the Army, there's a competition that's X-Tech, where, you know, if you're building good technology, there's entrances into the Department of War, for you to— so like, even if you don't have all the intricate knowledge about, you know, acquisition processes or like what contract vehicles to use, um, you know, the Department of War is trying really hard to find avenues to bring innovation in. And I think that's coming to fruition. And, you know, I think competition is deeply American. And I think, you know, what's happening now is more competition, uh, ultimately. Then, you know, obviously, you know, we've moved well beyond just defense primes competing But just generally, you know, programs have more competition going on. That competition ultimately reduces price, improves quality. And I think that's absolutely necessary.
100%. Okay. Let's make, let's make the problem and the solution concrete for the listeners, if you will. How is logistics— how is it done before, before ROON? And how are you guys doing it differently now?
Yeah, it is. It is often done with pen and paper, right? So if you go to any, basically any logistics unit in the military, right now at a certain tactical level and you ask them how they report their inventory or their vehicle status or how much personnel they have on hand, they will probably point you to an Excel spreadsheet that may be hung in SharePoint. They will point you to a whiteboard or to a piece of paper that they're sending around, right? And so the processes for this are just absolutely archaic because nobody's really spent the time to innovate especially at the tactical level, right? Sort of, you know, in the Department of War, we think of strategic echelons, right? Joint Chiefs of Staff. And then there's the tactical operational echelons where people are actually fighting. It's especially there where it's really still the Wild West. And, you know, what we're changing is a couple of different things. First of all, we're digitizing that. I do believe that, you know, even just taking the data that ends up in a spreadsheet or a piece of paper and putting that into a software, you can do so much more goodness with it, right? You can automatically aggregate and accumulate it. You can check for errors. You can check, hey, this number looks off by 100%. Did you really mean that, right? And then the other thing you can do is once you sort of digitize, you know, data collection, is you can collect it automatically from sensors. Now, a lot of reporting of logistics data in the Department of War is actually manual in the sense of You know, to measure fuel, you'll have a soldier or Marine with a dipstick, you know, dipping that stick into a fuel bladder to see how far up it goes, right? Or to count how many MRE boxes there are, it's really just a soldier counting boxes or counting ammunition pallets, and then writing that on a piece of paper. We are moving towards more sensors, and Roon is sort of at the forefront of that, you know, collecting that sensor data and developing sensors. And that's moving to a world where a lot more of this data is actually collected automatically and then sent up echelon in real time to ultimately also inform production, right? Like, how do we know how many howitzer rounds we need to build or hypersonic missiles need to be manufactured? We know it based on consumption that's happening at the bottom level.
Wow. So a lot of just like unstructured random data, if you will, manually collected now, but hopefully digitally collected. Kind of feels like a little bit— and sorry if the metaphor has been oversaid— but Palantir for military logistics. To Cernogard? Is that a fair way to at least look, look at it?
Yeah, I mean, Palantir and us are great partners, like tackling, you know, sort of the same problem together. And yeah, in a way, you know, I think in the spirit of Palantir of, you know, taking unstructured data to solve warfighter problems, that is our spirit as well.
Amazing. Well, I mean, obviously, the power of the data collection enables you to have what you said, the military, the data projection, which is the forward-looking, right, which is massive around that, let alone just real-time planning and moving things. Is that already in use? Are you already— is there other bases where you can go and see a screen and this is how it's now being done instead of, you know, pieces of paper?
Yeah, absolutely. I just came from one last night. I came from Fort Carson, Colorado, where we were with the 4th Infantry Division in the Army there as part of NextGen C2, which is the Army's largest C2 modernization program that we're part of, both with 4ID and Fort Carson and 25th Infantry Division in Hawaii, which is a little bit warmer. But yeah, TIRSS is in use there as well as in the Marine Corps. And to your other point, you're exactly right that, you know, it's one thing to collect the data, a much more important thing to use the data. You know, one thing that I found very interesting about logistics early on is that there's a lot of pieces to the puzzle to even make a single decision, right? Think of, okay, we want to resupply you know, this, this, this platoon of soldiers in the battlefield, you need to know who has available inventory, what vehicles exist to get there, what routes exist to get there, what crews are licensed to drive the vehicles if they're manned. And if you're missing any of those pieces, you actually do not have a decision. Like you actually need all those different parts to make even a single decision of how to resupply soldiers. And what's fascinating there is that, you know, I mentioned a lot of data is manually collected. Sometimes it isn't systems, but when it is in systems, it's in different systems, which means that right now soldiers have to swivel their chair from, you know, 6 different systems just to answer, okay, at this time, this truck is going to go from A to B along this route with these crews to drop off some ammunition, right? And that's actually what TIROS is really designed to solve. It's not just the collection of data, it's the use of data to solve logistics problems.
I mean, the way you describe it, it sounds like it's not just a military issue. It's an everywhere issue. I can imagine is, are you already finding commercial uses and people asking as well, getting it pulled into kind of the dual-use areas there?
Yeah, the way we think about that is there's kind of a natural progression from military and Department of War to like the federal government, right? The more natural landing place would be something like FEMA, right? If a hurricane hits North Carolina, MREs need to be distributed optimally and sort of, you know, visibility of supplies needs to be kept. That's something where Teros could already help today. And then beyond that, it is, yes, is, you know, perhaps, you know, heavy industry or industry in general. One of the unique things about Teros, our software, is that it works really well in disconnected environments with degraded communications, right, which is kind of like the norm for the Department of War. And so we see opportunities in other parts of commercial industry where that's the norm as well, right?
Yeah, yeah, I'm sure. That's awesome. That's great. So you're just coming from Fort Carson. What's that like seeing your— the customer using your tech?
It's, it's, it's really awesome. You know, I think it's, it's not just them using the tech. It's, uh, the thing that's actually often most rewarding is, is, uh, when, when past customers who use Teros then, you know, either go to other units or we just see them again and they're like, you know, it was so awesome to use your software and it really helped me. And, you know, it took something that took me 2 weeks and turned it into 3 hours. That's really rewarding is when we just, you know, get people whose lives have improved because of what we've done.
Yeah, that's huge. On this, I'm hearing it from them. It also makes you feel like you have a responsibility, right? To— you can— now you can humanize the person on the other end. Using your piece there.
And I think that, you know, usage of software is really important. You know, a lot of defense or like technology development is driven by military exercises. I think that's a little bit different from commercial industry where we're kind of on some sort of quarterly sprint plan or, you know, biweekly sprint plan. And defense, we're really much more driven by, okay, every 6 weeks we have some sort of military exercise, this customer, that customer, you know, every time we want to demo something new.. And the interesting thing there is there's kinds of two, two kinds of exercises. There is some that are a little bit more, let's try out this brand new concept, see if it works, right? Standing on one leg once and then it, you know, doesn't work again. And then there's other exercises are just units getting ready to deploy and fight war. And it's very different going through the latter kind of exercise with your software because If it does not work, they will have no problem just throwing out the window and going back to what they know how to do. So in the former, there's a lot more room for error. You can try new things. In the latter, you really have to make software that is resilient, right? And, you know, our customers are often in very high-stress environments. And so there's very little friction allowed between our software and their goal of, you know, completing their mission.
Amazing. So you kind of have— I can see a lot of different users, obviously, from down to the soldier, commander, and all the way up. It stacks, and people have different uses for this, I'm guessing, right?
Yeah.
How to— take me through a little bit of that. You know, you have a bunch of different lenses of now people seeing things differently, but at the end of the day, the, you know, logistics soldier.
Yeah, it's interesting, you know, back to how holistic logistics is. When we go to a military unit, we actually don't just talk to the logisticians. And so, you know, there's a couple of different sort of functions in a military unit. There's like the personnel function, intel, fires, plans, operations. You know, we of course go to the logisticians, but we also go to the personnel managers. So, so like the HR individuals who track soldiers and how many are available. We go to the contracting officers. You know, one of the interesting things is when when, you know, units out of Hawaii deploy to, let's say, the Philippines for exercises, they're not bringing all their vehicles and all their fuel. They're actually doing a lot of their logistics through contracted means, right? So they contract with, you know, local trucks or with, you know, local fuel sources. And so navigating, you know, what's called host nation logistics is actually a huge piece, right? You can imagine if we were fighting in Poland, you know, we would be tapping into like local resources. And so that means that when we go to military units, we talk to the contracting officers. And now increasingly, we've also talked to the medical community. So there's usually a surgeon and individuals responsible for medical evacuation, because one of the things we learned early on is that figuring out how to optimally resupply units is actually very similar to figuring out how to optimally evacuate patients from the battlefield. Right? So instead of figuring out supplies, vehicles, and routes, you're figuring out What medical treatment facility can I drop them off where they can get the right care? And what medical evacuation assets do I have that can fit the patients and, you know, allow them to be rescued?
Wow. Really interesting. So let me summarize a little bit, just like, you know, what I'm hearing. Essentially, you're turning like logistics from this manual reporting into this real-time decision system. You know, it's this live operational truth. Right. But, but we're still always thinking and knowing that logistics is this bottleneck. What, what's the second-order effect? What happens when logistics isn't the bottleneck? Like, what do you see that changes for the whole world?
You know, the, the biggest thing I always go back to is what, you know, what happens if you don't have Kyros, right?
You know, right.
In the best case, you can, you operate just fine. But in the future conflicts, you know, large-scale combat operations where things are going to be so fast, so dynamic, you know, we're probably going to get overwhelmed by the amount of decision space. And so what happens when there's just too many options and too many sort of supply requests coming out of our logisticians, and the environment changes too quickly, is that you go from being proactive to reactive, right? So instead of planning resupplies and scheduling movements that we have fuel in the right place and ammunition in the right place, logisticians become reactive, right? They're just kind of getting requests thrown at them, any kind of system goes out the window. It's just like, who's dying the most, right? Who's the lowest on fuel? And when we become reactive, we lose the upper hand, right? And so that's— I think of it more as in large-scale combat operations where things are dynamic. If we don't have Tyros, we become reactive. And if we become reactive, we likely lose.
That's kind of dire, obviously.
And, you know, a good example early on too is when we were kind of thinking about founding Rune is That was actually not, you know, not obviously still in the middle of the Ukraine war. And if you look at the Russian invasion of Kiev, which, you know, luckily failed, the Russians actually ran out of supplies.
Right.
So they had their rocket launchers, the front lines, and they eventually ran out of rockets. And the reason why is because their supply lines, supply lines got too long, which means on day one, they could have gotten 1 or 2 rocket volleys to their rocket launchers.. But then as those rocket launchers moved forward, their supply lines stayed back. Now it didn't take 6 hours to resupply. It took like 14 hours, which means you can only do it once a day. And then they ran out of ammunition and therefore got overwhelmed by the Ukrainians. And, you know, not that we're not happy of that outcome, but what I saw when I saw that was there was actually nothing. There is no technology that exists in the American arsenal of technology that would prevent our logisticians from running to the same problems, right? We would, we would hope that we're just smarter, better, have better tactics. But technologically, there is nothing that we have that will prevent us from running to the same problem on a bad day if things get too fast. And that was a warning sign to me.
Hmm. What's really interesting is like the way you describe it, this is really more of like a cognitive problem, not a supply problem. Right? I mean, it's really just the overwhelmingness of people and systems. And obviously technology is amazing at helping reduce cognitive load by understanding what to work on at the right time.
Right? You're very, very right. It's, it's actually less about, you know, we're gonna run out of ammunition, you know, globally or run outta fuel globally. It's about running out of ammunition and fuel in the places that matter. And having too much of it in the places that do not matter, right? And so that's also where, like, let's say our predictive analytics comes in is, yeah, in an absence of data analytics that tells you how much fuel, water, ammunition you take with you, what happens is that people just hoard, right? Well, if I have 15 grenades on me, I'll probably not run out of grenades. What happens then is the units that actually need those grenades more urgently don't have them because you have them and because you have more supplies than you need. You are slower, right? You can't move as quickly. And so that's where the intelligence of where supplies are needed now and predictively actually makes us more lethal.
Hmm. Well, let's kind of bring this home. You know, luckily we're building this for the United States because we believe in, you know, we got to win because we have to survive. A lot of people talk about the future is the Pacific, right? And if you look at history for the US, it's, it's not about having first or the best first strike. It's about having the operational capacity, right? And doing all that first. So one, lucky that you're building here for us. What do you think the future, the future looks like with that? Let's say the Pacific conflict. And are there unique needs? Luckily, we've kind of been to Pacific as a country, but I don't know, like, take us through not obviously logistics and decision tempo being the real deciding factor.
Yeah, I mean, when I think of the Pacific, you know, the term that comes to mind is the tyranny of distance, right? Distances are very vast. It's very dispersed. And that's actually, you know, a big change from how we fought wars in the last 20 years. And our supply chain, you know, now needs to keep up with it, right? During the Global War on Terror, we had air superiority, right? Every, you know, Defense Logistics Agency shipments to Iraq made it, right? And that's not going to be the case in the future. And so allocation of supplies being done intelligently and reallocated intelligently, make sure that we don't just shoot a volley of missiles on day one, we keep shooting for 30 days until we've destroyed the enemy. And so I think the Pacific is a huge challenge, you know, because of its distance and because of the challenges there. And so I actually think the US military without something like Tyros is going to have a very difficult time in those conflicts that hopefully never happen. 100%.
I mean, we've gone from this era of got to have big hulking metal carriers to got to have thousands of mini drones to honestly, we just need the right software as to have the right thing at the right time. Right.
And that's—
yeah, that's what you guys are developing.
And, and what I think what's important to note there, too, is it's really about the decision space that increases. Right? So humans are incredible logisticians, they can make really good decisions, they just can't make them fast enough, and at the scale that is necessary. And so when I think of TERRUS, it's really about how do we take the most incredible Army, Navy, Marine Corps, Air Force logistician, you know, in those services, supercharge them, and then replicate them 1,000 times, right, so that we can actually keep up with the pace of future conflicts.
Hmm, huge. Well, it's clear that you're working on the right thing at the right time, building the right thing for the right people at the right time too. So thank you for what you're doing. I think luckily the one thing that might not ever change for us is humans' need for food. And luckily, this being the Tacos and Tech podcast, but oh, by the way, the need for food is powered by logistics. That's right. We needed, we needed at the time, we needed, otherwise we can't perform. So what powers you? What is the, what's the tacos that you go and reach for? You got something in D.C. that's like a go-to or somewhere else?
You know, when I think of tacos, the place I always keep thinking back to is actually not in D.C. It is Velvo Taco in Austin. I just have such fond memories. I lived there for a little bit during, during COVID and that place was just Amazing.
So that's what I think of. Legendary. I'll be there next week. Uh, it'll be on my list. 100%. There's so many spots to, to, uh, to do though, Austin, you have to do like barbecue, then taco, barbecue, then taco. So that's right. Uh, that's your life. Yeah.
Yeah.
Right. Those are the decisions that I would like to be overwhelmed with. Uh, that's for sure. Peter, thanks so much for being on the pod, but even more thanks for what you're working on. Uh, really appreciate it. And I know our listeners will too.
So thanks. Thanks for having me.
It's great. Of course.
Cheers.
Crab, beer, and coffee. Makoto in yoga posse, fold the body origami. We be surfing Coronado, eating tacos El Gordo. The tacos standing puesto, lucha libre, and sombrero. Gotta shout out Tecos, Tecos by the ocean, watch the sunset. La Jolla shows entrepreneurs trying to get funded when San Diego Startup Week is popping in the summer. Oceanside, Tijuana, LA, SD be full of hustlers from couch surfing to penthouses right on the beach. Tech leaders who believe stars are within reach. We interviewing founders who be shooting for the moon. #SDTechos with your host Neal Bloom. Startups get the party, startups get the party started. Startups get the party, startups get the party started. Startups get the party— Startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech, you know we got it, hey! Startups get the party, startups get the party started. Startups get the party, startups get the party started. Startups get the party, startups get the party started. You want tech and tacos, tacos and tech, you know we got it, hey!
