SC Corner E2: SC time management & the banana nut muffin dilemma

I'm Becca Smith, a solution architect at NetGain. I'm a CPA and started my career at Deloitte in their business Tax Service Group. My legendary co host, Chris Miller is our VP of Product Strategy at NetGain. He was at NetSuite for over six years, solutioning with some of their largest enterprise clients. He's a CPA and has served in roles such as controller, director of finance and cfo. So let's jump in and tackle today's topic. So we are talking about time budgeting today. So I think it's just wanting to cover how you can make sure that you're taking the time with all of your clients as a whole and making sure that you're allocating time correctly there as well as like during a demo. Right. Getting into the details a little bit more and how to budget that time as you're going through the processes of a demo.

Sure. No, that's a great thing. It's funny, if people see this, there's probably several who think the thought of me giving any advice on time management is probably making them throw up in their mouth a little bit. So. But I'll do my. I'll do my very best here because there are some things that are critical, you know, to being successful. So hopefully. Yeah, let's talk through what some of the things we think are really important are. Where would you like to start, Becca?

And we'll, I guess let's start with overall. So we've got 10 clients on your plate probably at any given time. I don't know. I feel like I do at least.

Oh, yeah.

So taking that and then figuring out where, how you prioritize.

Sure. Yeah. No, that's a good thing. I was always a similar way because I know here, Nick Gain, you get pulled in a lot of directions too. Like a lot of times it'd be nice if you just had to do solution consulting, but a lot of times you find yourself working projects, like for product, new features, or you're curious about something.

Doing a podcast.

Yep, doing a podcast. Exactly. So, you know, you're probably similar. Like, I try to set aside some time kind of at the beginning of like, how much time can I budget to do some product stuff, do these special projects and then leave time. Because one of the things that I am, I've always been notorious for is I will say yes to everything and then get way over committed and then be like, I'm gonna suck at all of this stuff and then have to be like, okay, we gotta remove this around or move this around. Something I've never probably overcome. But I'm. I'm aware of that because it's, you know, you. I used to think I could do something with, like, no prep. And now I realize I have to give myself so much time, so much way to do something. Yeah.

How do you look at a project and know how much time it'll take you?

It's a good question. The first thing I would start out, I usually start with Becca, is I try to think of, like, if I. Let's say, like, something comes along and you get the requirements or something. There's always kind of like that.

You.

Can tell if it's like a big or a medium or a small maybe. And so I kind of almost have like. Like in my head, like, a little budget of what I think. And then, of course, the other thing to determine, like, level of difficulty is, you know, is there going to be a lot of unique stuff I have to do or things like that? Because there are some things. Sometimes I'll go in and I'm almost cold. Like, I'm like, hey, this is similar enough to, like, what I'm going to do. And then other things I'm. I've had projects where NetSuite, they would say, chris, we don't want you to do anything for a month to get ready for this big, you know, this big presentation and demonstration. And let's see, I've done that four times at NetSuite, where it was, like, almost like literally a month. Where they're, like, just, you know, dedicated purely to one. Yeah. If they're like. If anyone asks you to do anything, then they have to go through, you know, my boss. And so, yeah, so sometimes it could be that. So if I was to back up and think about kind of, like, how I. How I approach it, I don't do very good multitasking. So if there are like five. Let's say I got five of them out there. Like, the best analogy I ever heard that I try to do is it's like being an air traffic controller. You know, they say, well, how do you land 20 planes? You do them one at a time, and you have to bring them down. And so, like, I'll. When I think of something like that, I almost have to, like, if I have two of them, like, the first thing I'll do is I'll talk about scheduling, because I'll. I'll tell people, okay. I'm not even gonna think about. It'll be like, well, what about this? And I'll Be like, I won't even think about that one until two days before, you know, until I do all these others. So that's. Could be a weakness, could be a strength. I don't know. But like, for me. And I'd be curious how you approach it. I have to do them one at a time. So I do. If I know I've got this one, I prepare up ahead of time for it. Then as soon as that one's off, then I go, ah, good. And then I start thinking about the next one. Yeah. Sometimes when they fall on the same day, then that could be tough for me. Unless one's like, easy. But that's. That's really kind of where I start. How about you? What do you like to do when you're doing the planning?

Yeah. So similar to you in the sense of I use a little bit of knowledge of just past projects I've been on. I really focus on when client or when my AES give me a list of requirements that a client is looking for, what is out of the box and what isn't. And so anything that isn't out of the box, I kind of look at and see that's gonna take me an hour, that's gonna take me two hours, that's gonna take an entire day. So trying to budget that a little bit. And then I'll block off time on my actual calendar, which I know you do too. Cause I looked at your calendar and I think that that is one of the most helpful things is actually going on your calendar and saying, hey, these four hours are prepped for this client.

Yeah.

And it may not always end up actually all of that being prep. But settings aside, that time so that other things don't get scheduled on top of it makes the biggest difference for me.

Yeah, I think that's really good. Yeah. I remember when I Reddit thing, I didn't know what the call up is. Like time blocking is like, what? And I was like, yeah, that's. I was like, that's what I need you. Because I have to do the exact same thing. If I don't block out prep, it'll. It'll come in. And then the other thing, sometimes you probably run this too, is. It's a lot like some of what we do is like when a normal. You come in to see the doctor and they're like, you need this. Here's a prescription. And it's 50 minutes. And other times it's like the ER.

And you know, immediate. It's.

It's immediate and it's also putting out fires. Yeah. And it's like you don't know what you're dealing with. And it's like it takes as long as it takes. And so, you know, I. I know usually I don't get called in unless something's, like, really screwed up or weird or something, you know, like. And so I try to put in some of that extra, you know, buffer. That's like thinking time, too, when I come to approach something on the planning, you know, I. You start with kind of like your outline and your overall, and then, Yeah, I start putting there. And then I'll have to add a little bit of extra time to be like, okay, there, you know, what do I need to think about or ask about and kind of get to the bottom. Bottom of it. Yeah. Time. Matt. It's funny because, like, you've seen this here at Net Gain already, Becca, like, the solution console, almost always. All the projects, especially, like, the sales flow is always, like, we're always the constraint. How much can you, as a solution consultant handle so much in volume? Because while the sales, the AES are really busy, there's usually a lot more of them. And many times they're doing things like prospecting or something else. Very seldom.

Or is it like they're running the sales cycle and, like, we're really lucky at necking because all. Most of our AES can run most demos, but anytime there's any particularities, like with the client or anything that's out of not. Not out of the box. Right. That's where we have to get brought on. And so, yeah, it's actually funny. I've been dealing with this a ton the last couple days because I've had a couple different AES who have come to me with, like, large projects that they need me working on, and I'm like, okay, well, I've got three hours here and I have three hours here. And so you can talk to each other and figure out which one's more important.

Yeah.

And so sometimes I think it's helpful to, like, go to the AES and have them talk to each other to make sure that they're able to get the priorities in line. Because as a solution consultant, I'm not always the one who is frontline with the client and knowing how much of, like, a fire this is that I need to be helping put out. So definitely made. I would say maintaining communication between all parties is really important as well as, like, definitely the time blocking, I think, is really important.

Yeah, absolutely. And here it's small. If we can get them, but, like, is you go to a bigger, like a Net suite or Oracle or work day or any of them, as you get more people, then it. That part really gets really hard because you get people fighting for your time and you'll be like, which one's more important? They'll be like, mine.

Everybody raises their hand, raise their hand.

Mine is. And.

And you know, so then it's. Then it really does come down to that. Well, which demo is first? Yeah, because that is going to, in essence, create a priority list. So.

Yep, it is. And, you know, a lot of times on this podcast, we'll end up talking about actual, you know, craftsmanship or technique. But this, this is actually one of the really hard parts of, like, when you step into management is how you resource these things. So, like, I've had managers, you know, great ones. And the thing that I always thought was the hardest was how do you resource all this stuff? Because essentially a job where you make everybody mad on a regular basis because they're all like, I want this, I want this thing. I tell them, no, no. And of course, everyone wants to say, tell the customer, well, we'll have that ready. How about one day from now we'll have this all ready and they come back and you tell them it'll be three weeks because we're booked up. And then they worry. And like, that, to me, I think, is when you get into, like, the management side, to me is almost this is kind of like the hardest thing is because you have to protect a lot of your scs from themselves or else. Like me, like I said earlier, they.

Tend to be yes personalities.

I will say, yes, sure, I want to help you. Sure. What can I do with it? And then I look and I'm like, there's no way I can do any. All of this. We're going to have to do this, this, this, you know, and be bad. I had a friend, we were in grad school, and I've always admired his commitment to get out of something. I thought I'd do that. And we had this big test and I came to him and I sat down at the student center. This is at CU grad school. And I was like, man, are you ready for the test? And he was like, no. And I was like, what are you going to do? He's like, I'm gonna eat that muffin. And I was like, what do you mean? He's deathly allergic to nuts. And so he had a banana nut muffin. And he was like, okay, Chris, I'm Gonna eat this muffin and then you gotta help me get to the car, my car, so we can take the EpiPen, you know, before I pass out. So I was like, all right. And so we did it. Being, being the good friend I was, I was like, all right, let's have a life threatening shock and then we'll get you to the hospital. So he had to go to the hospital, but then he told our professor, yeah, allergic reaction, had to go to the hospital. Well, no one can ever challenge that. So that was his, like, way. And I've, I've had to pull that close to that once in a while on some of these where I'm like, I am in way over my head. I mean, I wish I had a banana nut muffin I could eat and get out of that. And so that's where having a really good manager can sometimes help, like, save you from yourself and be like.

Well, I would say like, a good manager both recognizes when you're underwater and as someone that you trust enough that you can come to and say, hey, I'm underwater.

Yeah.

And so, you know, rather than having to eat the banana muffin, you can go to the professor and say like, hey, it's not going to happen today.

Yeah, that's exactly right though. You're right though. And that's what makes a great manager in this is feel like someone can come and say, hey, I need, I'm overwhelmed or I need a hand. It took me a long time to do that actually, because the biggest thing to your ego in this thing is feeling like you always have to be the one who has the answers and you hate being the one who's like, oh, I don't have any answers today, or I don't think I can get to that, or I don't know that, or any of the things is hard. But man, the times when I've done that or had a manager say, kris, I looked at your calendar and I don't know what you're thinking, but there's no way you can do all that. And of course I'll be like, yeah, I can, no problem. And then about 30 seconds later I'm like, no, you're right, I'm in way over my head is like a lifesaver. And so, you know, just as kind of as we're doing this, I think being that's, that's honestly what makes a great solution, consultant manager, is knowing exactly how to help people be successful, have the right pace so that they're operating the best and then, and do that. So. So, yeah. Skill that I have not mastered. So obviously, I don't know how good I'd be at it, but.

Well, I think that's a really, like, nice, actionable piece of advice for a manager, though, is make sure that you're aware of what your SC schedules actually look like per college standards. You're a great friend.

Yeah. Like, I'd be the guy. They were like, hey, we have to do various things. I'm like, all right, I'm in, dude.

So the yes. Personality started young.

That's exactly it. I was like, I didn't even think twice about it. Okay, we're gonna. You're gonna threaten your life. Then we're gonna jab you with your EpiPen, and then I gotta rush you to the hospital.

Yeah, and then you still have to take the test.

Yeah, and then I still have to go take the test. A good plan.

I love it. Well, okay. I love that. Switching topics a little bit. I think I want to take, like, the budgeting conversation, that time conversation more to that granular level. So once you're in an actual demo, how do we budget, like, kind of step by step as you're going through. And I know netsuite is really awesome. Obviously, I've demoed with them a ton of times. You've worked there. We tend to have an agenda. Right. Like, number one thing is going to be that you have an agenda with, like a time allocated and all of that.

Yeah.

So, But I guess how do you go about making the agenda? How do you.

Oh, great. Great question. Because you actually hit on it, Becca. Like, that agenda slide is actually the most important of all the PowerPoints everyone shows. That thing is always the most important because in it, it contains what's important. It should contain, you know, what's important to the customer, why we're showing something. How much relative importance we're gonna put on something within that. And that's something that the very best reps that I've seen work actually take the time to talk about what should be on the agenda and why. And other times I'll even talk, you know, and if they don't, that's one of the places where we should not ever worry about stepping in and saying, hey, I think this is important. This has too much time. This has not enough. Here's the relative things, because that's kind of like almost like your budget. If you were spending time. This is what we want to see have happen. So what I'll do is, in the course of the overall project there's usually a couple of things people need to. In any demonstration, you want to achieve three or four things. The first one is almost always the most important one is building like trust and having the people see themselves being able to use the system. And so you're not there necessarily to teach someone how to use it and be like, this is how you set it up. But like help them see themselves using it. Like, if they can visualize, I can do this. You've accomplished one of the major hurdles. Then there's the technical requirements that you want to be able to do and then there's kind of understanding, like kind of their individual work flow or how they want to do it and some of their individual concerns. And if you can get all four of those in, then that's kind of like when you have an A plus, that's when you win A plus thing. That's when you win sometimes one of the. Mentally, one of the things, for me, the hardest demos many times end up being the ones where I do a lot of the talking and I have to feel like I have to fill all this content. And in an ideal world we would kind of. You want to be able to talk and then the software almost becomes like a prop, you know, like if you were holding up a sword or a laptop here or a microphone, the screen becomes almost a lot like a prop. And so when I'm demoing, one of the things I think is I try to make all of everything complete, the screens, complete the data and everything. And I will tend to focus more on walking through something.

I've noticed that about your, about your demos is that you. I've noticed that about your demos where you tend to have everything already pre built out. Like, I tend to go through and actually like create an asset, live with the client, and then kind of go through the different processes with them. You usually like to have everything already done and then you just show them kind of like where the buttons are.

Yep.

So you found that to be more kind of like time efficient probably. And yeah, a little easier for the client to understand.

They're, they're. They're kind of like three. Three things. Why I do that first is you actually can then start to leverage a lot of savings because let's say you like we do, we have an asset record. You create the perfect asset record that's here. Here. Well, what you'll find, Becca, is that you'll make one for this industry and one for this industry and then you'll remember where they're at and then that cuts down on your prep time because you really are now just kind of walking through everything. The other thing is that people need to see kind of three things. They need to see the reports, kind of the why we do this, it almost always turns into a report. Then they need to see the workflow that we use to capture that. And then they need to see the data, like what data we're getting and then how we do it. And so you will have people, like if you're on the AP team, for example, that are very transactional focused and they'll want to see you make an asset or they'll want to see you do it.

Right. I've been on demos before where they're like, that's great, but can you actually show me step by step and actually click the buttons? And so it's almost like reading the client's personality a bit to see what they're. What will resonate more with them. Right. When it comes to that usability piece and wanting clients to be able to see themselves using the software, it's do I just need to see a record so I know where the data is so I can see the report because I'm a report driven or do I need to seek you create a bill so that I can understand how my day to day will look?

Yeah, you're exactly right. And that's part of reading the audience. And that's actually been one of the things that's hard remote. Like I have a hard time like when I'm in a room with people I can kind of see. Oh, I see. Maybe you're doing that and see, that's so funny.

I never demoed live to somebody. I think I've done it like once.

Wow.

And like that was your whole career.

That's all I knew. And yeah. And so zoom is very different to me, like, because I really wish I could see, see the people and kind of do that. And if you notice like, like a lot of companies have different cultures. At netsuite we had good or bad, there's nothing different. But you know, we don't. I say we. Like I was there, but we never turned on the cameras. Like, and that suite is very much like you seldom turn on the. Especially pre Covid. Like, like no one ever saw your face. It was pretty funny. So you'd have a good picture, you know. But that ability to kind of read the room and talk to people I think is a really important skill, you know. And so when we get kind of to the budgeting time, the demos are Hardest for me are the ones where I feel like I got to cover a lot of content. So I kind of purposefully say here's the, the screens. And then I will. If I can't elicit people talking, then many times I'll just ask people questions, you know, so I'll so relying on.

Questions when you can't read people necessarily.

Exactly. I'll kind of be like, well, you know, how did you feel about that? Is this, would this meet your needs? You know, many times a question that people will be, that is if you ask them say I really tried to kind of picture exactly how did you do this? Did I get this right? And they'll usually, sometimes they'll say yeah, and then go on. But many times people will then say, well almost, here's what I was looking for. This and this. And then you can now come back and tailor it and say, ha, this is what. Okay, now I got it. And we'll, we'll redo that. And that really helps engagement. And I tend to, I like demos where there's a lot of engagement and I tend to plan for those better.

The ones always better.

The ones that stress me out are the ones where it's like an eight hour scripted and I'm like, oh my gosh, I'm building a movie, not a demonstration. And I like have to figure out how to fill all the, fill all the content. But yeah, but getting back to kind of like why I pre do that for the time is I like to create examples that I think will resonate with what people will. So when I'm spending my time planning it on it, I usually get an outline and then almost all my prep time is almost always spent on those three things. You know, how do I make the records or the screens look like what I want? How do I design a report that will show them data that I think they'll like and then kind of talk about how you accomplish that. And that can vary. Like on an asset like CS where we have one of our standard products kind of gotten to where I don't have to do a huge amount of prep except for industry type preparation. So if we have some like cell phone tower company or their rental company.

We'Ve already got the pre built out examples and then all we've got it. Like you were saying, once you have something pre built out in the system, you're able to just go use it again and again.

Yeah, that's exactly it. The other. Now when you do do kind of like make it kind of like how you did. I've been burned many times by not testing it, like going like, oh, yeah, that'll work. I got that done. And then not actually hitting the button and doing it. So if you want, if you know you've got to do that kind of a demo, like you make a test example and then you. And then you have to make sure that whatever you're doing, then copy it and run it again. So we would always test it so it looks good, nothing's missing.

Yeah. And it can be time consuming, but I think that that's actually a great use of time, is to go through and click all the buttons yourself. So that way, with confidence, you can say, yes, that will work, or yes, that is going to do what you think it will. And that way, as the sc, I think that's really important to go through and click every button in the software at some point in time and to do it pretty regular. Like, I feel like when you're learning the software, you do that. Oh, absolutely. Like six months in, you haven't done it in a while. Right. But you need to go and do it again because there's updates being pushed and things are changing and that's how you learn when there's like, new things inside of the product. So. Absolutely, that's like, very important.

And your role is going to be a lot is a lot. Like my role you're doing that is you're always out on the edge pushing the new stuff. And so that's kind of where you're.

Creating the new stuff and I'm testing.

It and I need the help. And so where. But when you're doing that, you're exactly right. You. In the course of the prep, you may not hit all the buttons in front of the customer on the demo, but you have to do it all in the prep because you, you know, to, to push the envelope of what, what's done well.

And it, it just comes off so much better in a demo when you can confidently say something because you just did it an hour ago.

Yeah.

So.

Oh, yeah.

I think that that in and of itself will kind of resonate with the client.

Yeah, absolutely. Because it comes back to the main purpose of what you're preparing for is helping them see themselves using the software and having confidence. And so when you present it that way, having done just naturally makes all of your other efforts that much more valuable or more prepared.

Totally. Okay, well, I think that was really helpful. Yeah, kind of, I guess, I would say the takeaways on the individual piece, I guess if we were to summarize would be that you need to have kind of thought through what the most important pieces are for the client. Right. What the priorities for the client are. I would say clicking the buttons, making sure that you can be very confident with what you're presenting to the client, and then making sure that what you're presenting is clean. So whether that's having records prepared or having done, like, kind of a sample and then having it ready to go and prep for the client, depending on what their use case is, just making sure that what you're presenting is relevant.

Yeah, that's absolutely right. And then I really liked what you said about having the confidence and having done it. And in the course of preparing those examples, that's exactly what you do. You've gone through everything, and so you know exactly how you arrived there. So that's.

There's nothing more comforting than a demo account that you're the only person who's touched.

Yep.

Okay. Perfect. Well, thank you.

All right.

All right. Well, I'm Becca Smith and I have been joined by Chris Miller. Thanks for listening to SC Corner. You can listen to us on any of your preferred streaming services, or you can always look up our products at NetGain Tech.