#5 Maximal Liberty: Post Scarcity World

Okay guys, welcome to the new episode of Maximal Liberty here on Consensus Network. Today we have a very interesting topic considering post-scarcity, and we have 2 awesome guys here with me. My name is Niko, and guys, Anssi, Rafael, would you, would you go ahead and introduce yourself? Rafael, you go first.

Hi guys, my name is Rafael Aronin. I'm a cryptocurrency enthusiast and, well, I really like the topic about post-scarcity societies. That's pretty much about it.

Cool. Anssi, go ahead.

Yes. Hi everyone, I'm Anssi. I'm also a crypto enthusiast, but also a serial entrepreneur, startup founder, And, and a fan of being good.

Fantastic. And yeah, I'm currently functioning as the chairman of Finnish Cryptocurrency Association. I like to educate people. I also like to think of myself as a good guy like everybody. And here, this is why we want to make these videos, let people know about these ideas that could potentially change the world, at least You know, we have some new tools that we would like to bring to the attention of the general population. If you feel like what we do here is important, please leave us a like, share, and guide your friends also towards our content. We aim to serve you guys, so please do let us know what kind of a job are we doing. And without further ado, let's dive into the topic. And first, you know, post-scarcity sounds a little bit confusing possibly, so let's just quickly here define what we mean by that. Rafael, what does post-scarcity world mean to you?

Well, I would think that it's some kind of a stage where we don't have anything that we really want that is actually scarce, that we can produce enough of all of the needed stuff or whatever it is, food or shelter or warmth or

Right. Anssi, what do you understand by post-scarcity?

Being a self-sufficient society or a community. So, as Rafah said, we wouldn't actually need and crave anything. No single entity is actually controlling vast amounts of, you know, for example, oil or other resources, money, or anything like that. Which which create these unnecessary kind of like how do you say oravampyöra in English?

Rat race.

Rat race for the for the majority of people. So so that's a kind of like a noble noble idea of a self-sufficient and and and and independent society which can couldn't be controlled or couldn't be Kind of like manipulated by some greedy bastards.

Right. Some would say it's the ideal world and maybe even too ideal. Like, I would like to direct the attention of all the viewers to this movie series called Zeitgeist. Especially the second movie is quite good. In the end, there's a case made for post-scarcity type of world. Which is kind of like a barter-based, you know, I'm a dentist, I fix your teeth, you're an engineer, you fix my house type of thing where there wouldn't be a need for necessarily money. We would just do things because we want to do things. Sounds very ideal at that time. That was way before Bitcoin. Bitcoin is a great tool that can provide— it's the best money we've had so far. But at that time, we didn't have it when I saw that movie first. And for me, it felt a little bit depressing because I felt like we are light-years away from that kind of a world, and I didn't feel like we might ever have that. But ever since, my viewpoint has changed quite a bit, and I feel like we might actually reach that sooner than later. So guys, what do you think? What are the tools? that we can use today to take the first steps towards post-scarcity world?

Yeah, well, I'm not really sure. I mean, like, we could already be in a post-scarcity world, in my opinion, if we would just, you know, use the resources correctly and stop being selfish and being stupid and being manipulated and, you know, everything that is going on right now. But that's I don't think that this is going to really happen, at least not soon. I think that what you talked about a little bit, Niko, the Zeitgeist movies, they are talking about a system called resource-based economy, which just— it's kind of like if you've been playing some kind of a game like Age of Empires or Heroes or whatever, there's different kind of castles in the map and there's different types of resources. Yeah. and everybody just keeps fighting over them. Some people control a little bit more than others, and some people are just trying to go by with that. But if we would actually, you know, just think about it in a game theory way, that what would be the most efficient way of using these resources and doing most of the good stuff that we want would be just to calculate everybody, everybody in those castles or cities or whatever, you know, how many people are there, how much do they need food, how much do they use of whatever, and how much of resources do we have in the land. I mean, like wood and rocks and gold and whatever we need. And then we could just, you know, calculate which is actually the most efficient to produce, what is actually needed and not just wanted. This kind of a system would need actually to have a pretty good type of artificial intelligence in it, but I think we can go towards that, but it would just take a lot of time.

I have a shorter answer. So you asked what tools we could use. Well, we could stop using greed as a tool. So that actually might be the single thing that solves Pretty much everything. Greed.

I'm glad you brought up greed because I was, I was gonna say that greed is the thing that runs us. Greed is very fundamental to human beings. It's, it's basically our basic survival depends on greed, you know, in terms— if you think about evolution, that's basically been true most of human life, that the more resources you hoard, the bigger chances are your survival, and thus you you can reproduce, which is the fundamental role for us in this world. So to me, greed is a very fundamental part of being human. And of course, like Rafa said, we have evolved beyond the physical evolution in terms of social evolution. So now we do have— we are intelligent beings. We could not behave like a bunch of assholes and hoard everything to ourselves. We could. use logic to distribute resources and energy and everything evenly. But that's sadly not the case because we are driven by greed and some individuals are smarter than others. And thus this kind of a society has been created where a very small minority actually controls through manipulation the vast majority of human beings. And that creates all kinds of problems. So to answer my own question, what tools we have, I do think Bitcoin has taken us much, much closer to this kind of a world where we have a level playing field, where it becomes increasingly difficult for certain minorities to rule over the world and manipulate people because people have a choice finally for the first time in human history to step away from the system, step away from this coercive and censored system where our value, our Because we do produce value through our work when we create something, and that value is being stolen from us by manipulation. And for example, the monetary system, inflation, and taxes. What do you guys think on that?

Yeah, I would actually want to add that Bitcoin might be the kind of like one intermediary, the one step in the path. But I think ultimately that, you know, everything related to money, uh, be it fucking Bitcoin or, you know, uh, US dollars, is pure crap. Like, even gold is pure crap. You wouldn't need those. You, you, you really don't need any kind of money, uh, to exchange value and, and, and actually survive. You only need the ability to communicate and actually to, you know, specialize in something so you can offer your services in exchange for other services.

I do agree with that. However, the reason why money was invented— and I do think that money is a very fundamental invention, very important at that— because there is something called the double coincidence of wants, which means that You know, it's a heck of a coincidence that a person who— let's say that I'm a dentist again and you are an engineer. It's a heck of a coincidence that you need your teeth fixed when I need my window replaced. You know what I mean? So that's why we have a medium of exchange, which is money. So I do think here money is still very, very important and fundamental as a medium of exchange. And to move past that to a true post-scarcity world, we would need a way that everybody would have gold, everybody would have infinite resources. We're talking nuclear transmutation type of sci-fi type of thing. What do you think, Rafael?

Well, this is a little bit of a difficult topic to me because I have different kind of views on stuff. I mean, like, I actually think that money is not really needed on a post-scarcity society. There is no border, there is no you know, anything like that. You just have the stuff, whatever you need, and whatever we can, you know, imagine we want, somebody is probably doing it, or you can do it yourself. All the resources are available to you. There's no need for, you know, have some kind of jealousy. I mean, like, if I have something cool, you can have it too, or you can make it too. It's easy. And, you know, the system itself, I mean— But I do agree in that greed sense that we actually are greedy right now, but I think it's just a thing that we've been incentivized to be. You know, there's— right after we, you know, go to a sandbox to play with others, there's gonna be some adults saying that, oh no, that stuff, it's not yours, it's his. You know, there's gonna be this situation where you divide what is yours and what is others'. So that's something I think that we've been taught, but I don't actually think that it's quite expectable that everybody would just stop being greedy. But I think that we should try to incentivize people in a different way. I mean, this is what I mean that I have different kind of thinking, ways of thinking about this stuff. But I do think that Bitcoin is going to be a stepping stone towards that post-scarcity system. It's going to bring a monetary system which incentivizes people to produce something that is actually durable and not just spending and all of that.

Bitcoin is a stepping stone. That was actually a very good word, stepping stone towards the post-scarcity world. And I actually, we played with this idea a bit and I think that it actually might work. So if we, if we had a self, self-sustained society, um, living on an island, uh, self-governed by an AI that doesn't, uh, have greed coded into its algorithms, uh, that could control the kind of like the infrastructure and the sharing of resources, uh, then that society, like, like being in that society would require a token, not an ERC-20 token, but an access token, a kind of like a certificate of belonging into that society. And with that certificate, with that access token, you would actually get free resources, like the basic resources, electricity, water, know, infrastructure, other, you know, infrastructural stuff like, you know, wealth— wealth care, healthcare, not wealth care, but healthcare, and other kind of like basic stuff. And in order to actually remain in that society and keep control, have the private keys to your access token, you need to perform a kind of like a series of actions Every month, every year to remain inside the community. And there actually could be the barter system, if you may.

So what you're basically talking about is kind of like a meritocracy, which is something that I fully back, which means valuing people's effort based on the merits of of their work, not necessarily where you're from or whose kid you are, like kingship, for example, or royalty or whatever, that kind of thing. Even democracy is a joke in my opinion because most people are not fit to make these kind of decisions. In that way, I sympathize with your idea of an AI doing the vote, so-called not voting, but controlling everything. However, I find it a little bit dangerous thought, this kind of like access token, because what that reminds me of, it's kind of like a social credit system, which is ongoing in China, for example, which is, you know, as long as everything goes, as long as you don't go against the so-called party line, whatever the party line is, somebody has to code it to the AI, which will then start to make these demands of people. And as long as you follow the rules, you're so-called free, but actually you're not free because in freedom, with freedom comes personal responsibility. Which I am a huge advocate of, and I do believe that everybody should have the right to do whatever they want and carry the responsibility that comes with it. So if you want to harm somebody or hurt somebody or steal something, you should have the full right to do so. However, those people you are about to hurt or steal from also have a full responsibility and right to defend what is theirs, what is their property, what is their own health and their family. So there would be a retribution. And I do think it's a little bit of a dangerous thought to centralize that kind of a thing. I do also think that it's inevitable, that cat is out of the bag, the AI is going to take over at some point. And I guess the question is, are we going to be cleaned out forever from the face of Earth, as we are greedy bastards by nature, or are we going to remain as kind of like pets of the AI depending on what is the agenda of the AI. That's my thought on that.

Yeah, but that's actually— greed is pretty— I think that, you know, because greed has been systematically practiced for the last, I don't know, 7,000 years, where did it come from originally? What snowballed it? What is the single thing that catapulted this kind of like, you know, greed, hoarding, I need to be better than you, I need to be able to control you, I need more power than you type of thinking?

I think like, you know, in the beginning I already said that it's evolution, like it's a survival instinct. The more resources I have, the better are my chances of survival. That's animal instinct right there. However, we have evolved past that. We can use logic now. We know that we are not going to run out of resources. We already know we have all the resources we need to take care of everybody and everybody can have a nice life. We already know that, but we still kind of like slaves to our animal instincts and we are being used On those terms. And I don't think that it's very— it takes millennia to evolve on the physical level to surpass this kind of feelings of greed. I don't think it's very fruitful to try to get rid of greed. Rather, I would go back to, like Rafay said, about the game theory. And I do think, like, for example, Bitcoin is one of the most perfect examples of a working game theory where we can reach a Nash equilibrium where everybody wins by playing the game. And it ingeniously uses human greed as fuel to make the network stronger, to make the money better and make the level playing field for everybody. So I think that might be more reasonable than to try to abolish greed, because I don't honestly think that it's possible to weed out greed, but we can, however, try to harness it

Well, my thoughts on that is that, you know, greed is just a thing that we've been actually taught, and it's been incentivized for us to, you know, get greedy. But yeah, surely it is because of the survival instincts. But there has been a different kind of systems where how people survive. I mean, like when you've been, you know, let's say a Neanderthal or whatever, when you've been hunting a mammoth, you can't really kill it yourself, or at least it's really, really difficult. But you would need some other people to help you out, and that's how you survived at the time, not being selfish about using the whole community, you know, trying to act together. But there is also these different kind of systems where you can just gather all of the food that you can right now and nobody else, there's nothing left for anybody else. So you can, if you can defend your, all of the, for example, apples that you picked, you could probably go on and start selling it. And you know, that is the way where greed becomes a good thing for survival. And yeah, I just think that we should probably program ourselves a little bit different. I mean, let's say that, for example, I really like cryptocurrencies and I like the privacy aspect of it. I think it's really needed because if there is privacy for some people, I think there has to be privacy for everybody. But there is also this kind of option where there is no privacy at all. This is just a thought. I'm not actually sure how it would actually work. But let's say that everything you do all of the time would be recorded in a place, for example, like something, some kind of a Facebook blockchain or whatever. And there would be all of the good and the bad stuff. There would be whenever you shit your pants or whatever, it will be visible for everybody in your profile. But there would be a lot more of these same kind of situations where different people that are let's say highly valued or whatever, they would be doing all of that bad and stupid stuff too. So it becomes a little bit more normal, and that will become a thing that we want to protect. We want to do and show all of the good stuff that we do. We don't want to— if everything is totally honest, everybody could see whenever I try to be greedy or whenever I try to get something more from for myself, it would be visible there and people would like to, you know, have a credit score or whatever that would incentivize us to do stuff a little bit differently, probably. I don't know.

Karma score.

Yeah, but just one more thing about the post-scarcity world. What is actually, in my opinion, needed is the automation of different kind of producing of products and whatever, you know. We are right now, these days, we are creating products that are meant to be broken by the time, by the X time or whatever. There has been just a basic bulb of, you know, light bulb that was produced in Nazi Germany or whatever, and it's still there in some kind of a museum. There's electricity, it's on all the time and has been for, I'm not sure, many, many years and it hasn't broken. And that was when people actually wanted to do stuff that doesn't just break down. But in these days, we have this society where we need to be all the time using more and more stuff. We don't even want to produce some good products. And I think that's a big problem also.

Yes, that's actually a really great point you bring out because it's the time preference which I think deserves another mention because people don't talk about it enough. People have high time preference, and I do think that it's largely due to manipulation because the forces at power who are also controlling the money, who are also controlling the production, who are the main benefactors of these immense factories that churn out this plastic crap that breaks down, these new smartphones that are made obsolete every year year with software updates. Like you said, no products are made to last anymore because it cuts down to the profits. And that is, of course, very destructive. And I would like to see an end to that. And I do think decreasing each individual's time preference, which would mean that people are more inclined to save their money rather than spend it, I do think good money, hard money, just like gold or Bitcoin, is necessary for that. What do you think, honestly?

Yeah. Again, I'll say that, you know, you can solve this by removing greed from the factor. Greed from the factor. Because, you know, generally, like, if you think logically, it's— again, this is driven by greed. Things breaking down, there's just one reason. Make shit faster.

Yeah, I agree. I agree. Like I said, of course it's because of greed. However, I don't think it's extremely fruitful to try to think how we can get rid of greed, but how can we game the system? How can we change the game theory so that being greedy actually is— we harness it for good instead of bad?

I mean, greed is a thing that I don't think that people are already ready to give up. But I think it's just a matter of time. I mean, greed, in my opinion, is just emotion or reaction, and this is what most of the animals do and how they behave all the time. They just react on stuff. Whatever you go on and show them, if they haven't seen it before, they don't know how to react. They just go on and see what happens. But If they, you know, if they have some kind of an animal have trauma or it has already seen this type of a scenario or something, it would just react how it has learned to react. And this is where humans, in my opinion, would, you know, make the biggest difference between humans and animals is that we have the logic. We can actually try to think it a little bit differently. We can think about the past and the possible future, and that is something that we should focus on and try to, you know, live by that and try to develop it, because that would make us, you know, make smarter decisions, leave the possible greed away, or just to realize that it's just an emotion.

But yeah, I can actually continue on this. Because, you know, greed is a result of envy. I envy that you, Raffe, you drive a really, really nice BMW X5 SUV. Now, I don't have money for that. You have money, so I'm envying— I'm envious of you. And that also then triggers my greed survival instinct. And, and, and I want to, you know, work my ass off and, and screw people around so I could get my hands on a BMW X5. But in a kind of like a post-scarcity world, uh, and where, well, potentially Bitcoin could actually be, be useful if someone made a project out of it, uh, would be to kind of like have a society where everyone would have that fucking BMW X5. So there wouldn't be no need for, you know, uh, being envy of each other.

But wouldn't that lead to, um, kind of people getting lazy and people getting like losing meaning of life when there's nothing to strive for if everybody has everything already? Like, isn't that— okay, what are you talking about here? Envy here, I, I call it toxic greed. I think there is a such a thing as a productive greed as well. It's about, again, your mindset. If you think like, oh, Rafa has a new car, damn it, that's, that's so cool, I'm so happy for you, man, I wish one day I can have that. And then I start to think, what can I do to reach that position, to work hard, to save, and to get that whatever it is that Rafa has that I envy— or I don't envy, I'm jealous of that. So I work hard and then I get one for myself instead of being taught toxic about it and feeling like, well, I'm entitled to that, but maybe I don't realize, I don't see that Rafi worked really hard for that and he deserved that. So I do think that there's a difference between productive greed and toxic greed.

Yeah, of course.

But yeah, this has been an immensely interesting and pleasurable conversation, and I would like to start to direct it towards the end so we don't ramble on all night here. We can continue, obviously, we can make another video, but I would just like to hammer on the point. I think we all agree here that a post-scarcity world would be nice. It would be cool if we wouldn't be so greedy and everybody would have a nice life and everything they need. Is this the kind of ideal world to strive for really, or would it possibly lead to depression and this kind of meaninglessness? or the lack of meaning in life, rather, because there's nothing to strive for anymore because everybody has everything? Or maybe do you think that then accumulating knowledge becomes the kind of like measure of status, kind of like ultimate meritocracy or technocracy or whatever you call it? Because I do believe once we have nuclear transmutation, which means that we can rearrange atoms on matter and we can transport matters in, in, you know, a matter of seconds to anywhere in the world or in the universe, maybe the only thing worth transferring at that point is, is sheer information or knowledge. So let's, let's get our final thoughts on that together and then maybe, maybe rethink what is the ideal world.

I don't actually think that people would lose their reason for living or purpose or the motivation or whatever. I just think that it would be recorrected in something else. And it's actually, you know, we are right now, probably most of us are working in a place that doesn't actually really reward ourselves in any way than just the basic salary. We ain't learning probably anything, or we could learn much more. We are not even trying to do the best we can. We are just trying to— make it out, you know, with minimal effort, just trying to get that salary. We are really not incentivized right now. But I'm not sure. I mean, for example, if we would make, instead of making cameras for everybody, well, this is a bad example because everybody has cameras in their phones these days. But let's take that, let's think that we were 10 years ago. Everybody has been sold to have their own cameras and how much would they actually use it? Really, really little bit. I mean, during the year, maybe a couple of days worth, maybe a few hours worth during the whole year. Why do we have to have our own cameras, everybody?

Hmm.

We don't. We are not actually using it all the time. How about if it would be a system like a library where there is already a lot of that, a lot of many cameras, probably the best ones that we can produce, where they wouldn't be made for just breaking up or breaking down. It would be the best that humanity can actually produce. There would be different kinds of things and you could just go on in there whenever you need a camera. You go in there and take it or, you know, loan it, and whenever you are done with your project, you go and give it back in there. That's true. I

mean,

there could be a different kind of systems.

Yeah, that's actually a good idea. That would actually be a really good idea because I just thought about my Canon DSLR camera which has been gathering dust for like 7 years. I don't fucking need it. I could actually send it to the library and let people borrow it for free for the good of society or the community.

Yeah.

Why not?

Yeah, and just another example. Well, here in Finland we have a lot of these summer cottages or whatever, and yeah, we don't have a big problem in here about homeless people, but in statistics there are, you know, in 2017 there were said to be 7,000 people homeless here in Finland, but we have already, we have 500,000 summer cottages, you know, which are being used maybe 1 week or 2 weeks in a whole year. They could, you know, be used much better. We are just wasting resources right now.

Yeah, yeah, resource allocation is not optimal at all. It's like, it's stupid. But, um, Yeah, I would actually want to answer Niko's question. Would we end up killing ourselves out of boredom? I don't think so because, you know, kind of like removing the rat race and all things associated to being in the rat race, being stressed out, being, you know, time-limited, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, could actually— Enable people to really find their actual purpose, like being artistic, creative, you know, doing whatever, what they feel like, you know, hugging trees, like going for a swim if they want to.

I do agree that, you know, it's like the same situation if you are winning a lottery or whatever, or you go out of a job, you won't just, you know, Pretty many people are going to be just, you know, so-called lazy and stay home and just watch TV and do nothing. But that's because the world is incentivized in that way. There is really, you know, there's really a little bit of motivation to go out there and try to do something to get that basic salary. Yeah. You would just, you know, get the same stuff by just sitting at home. But if you would be, for example, a millionaire and you wouldn't actually need anything, You'd probably want to, you know, it would depend totally about where would you be incentivized to go. I mean, I would like to see people trying to, you know, create something even better. Everybody would just be probably, for example, motivated to do something even better, create something, some better products, some new kind of perspectives or arts or, you know, just researching stuff. And the respect wouldn't come from some kind of capital gains that you have or how much money do you have in your wallet. It will be how much have you really contributed to the society.

Yeah,

right. I feel like we keep coming back to meritocracy, which is something that I advocate. And I do think that once we remove the rat race, and it is possible already today, it's just a matter of Maybe decreasing your expenditure, which means lowering your time preference, living way beyond— excuse me, way below your means. So spending less and considering what is true wealth. For me, true wealth is waking up whenever the hell I want, doing whatever the hell I want. And that is true wealth for me. That is freedom. That's all this channel is about. about maximal liberty, and my idea about life is minimal effort, maximal pleasure. However, if we would have all these things that we could buy anything, then it would truly free us, free our minds to do whatever we want. And I do think that we could see a new kind of a golden age rise from that because people would truly find their calling. And of course, some people would probably kill themselves out of boredom, but maybe that's just part of the

Yeah, maybe it actually would be a good thing. No offense to the guys who will kill themselves, but maybe that could be a good thing.

I don't really even see it as a problem that people wouldn't do stuff. Of course they would. If you would have, let's say for example, if you would win a lottery right now, or well, you wouldn't need, you would have everything you ever wanted right now. If you wanted a Ferrari, it's over there, you can go ahead and buy it. pick it up. I mean, like, you would have everything. You would have all the good food you want. You have the house in the way that you want, whatever. But you just wouldn't be able to hold on whatever you are not using. It wouldn't make you, you know, just sit around and do nothing. You would just, you know, try to have fun in your life and try to do something productive, something good, something, you know, worthwhile.

You know, one thing that occurred to me, we would get rid of gold diggers. Like, there would be no point in being with somebody for their resources, right? You would actually have to find a mate based on what you really like, what you really love. And that could be, if you think about the divorce, like how many people get divorced nowadays, like more than 50%. It's ridiculous. Why is that? We lack the free market aspect in relationships. relationships. You know, you don't have to do anything, you know, have, you know, just be happy. That's all.

Most of the divorces come because of money and money problems, right?

Right.

That's what I would argue.

That is actually true because, you know, again, we come to the rat race and then, you know, which leads, which might lead to not having enough time for each other, which leads to you being separated from each other on a kind of like a spiritual level. And then eventually finding out that, hey, fuck, I don't love you anymore. Fuck off.

Yeah, and if there's money involved, different people would want— anyway, it's just a matter of time, they would want to do a different kind of stuff. But if you have— if you're low on money, you would have to decide which way you're going to want to go. I mean, like, that would probably get you in some kind of an argument or fight or whatever. It could be a big decision and you would have to just pick one. In a system where there is no scarcity, they could just both do whatever they actually really, really want and that wouldn't be a problem. That wouldn't engage them in an argument or fight.

All right. So we agree that a pro-scarcity world is something to strive for. It would lead to possibly a new golden age and especially a better life for everybody. Now guys, to wrap up, how do we proceed? How do we reach that position?

We buy an island, we buy every item that a society might need, and we start inviting people who go through a really, really rigid screening process to weed out that they are not, you know, toxically greedy bastards.

I like that. I like the idea that Anssi just said. But I think that would be a system of control and you would have to, you know, use some kind of a force mechanism to keep out the bad people and, you know, whatever it is. I mean, like, yeah, surely we can go and try to go there, but I just think that it's a matter of time and it won't happen quickly, not in our lifetime, in my opinion. People are way too greedy and manipulated and, well, stupid these days. But I think that there is going to be some kind of a really, really bad situation in the whole world where there's going to be wars and people are going to actually suffer a lot. And that is just the basic cycles, how things go. Things start going pretty well, but then they just crash. And we need these type of cycles. I think that we are gonna see the, uh, the whole— the big collapse and the fight with this greedy fiat monetary system, uh, that have— that brought this to us. And after that, we are probably a little bit more open to new ideas and new kind of systems.

I

do agree that we're going to see— unfortunately, we're going to see a crash, and it's going to be ugly, and it's not everybody's gonna make it, and that's just the way it has to be. I don't think there's a way around it. I also think we're gonna see some kind of a castle in the sky type of society, kind of much like the island Anssi mentioned, that will be only for the technocrats and meritocrats, the intellectuals, the new elite of the world. And most of the people will be left, left in the dust. And I do think we're gonna see that before we can see a true a prosperous and not, I wouldn't say equal world, but level playing field world. I do think we're on our way there. But to answer my own question, how do we proceed from here? I would urge everybody to really consider what is important in life. Lower your time preference. You do not have to get everything right now. Think in the long terms. Like you mentioned, Rafael, that not in our lifetime. Well, I think I'm— I believe I'm going to live at least 200 years because if you look at— look back like 100 years ago, the lifespan of human beings has doubled. And I do think it's— it would be naive to think that it won't double during our lifetime. I do think robotics and AI and everything, all the technology, we can replace parts of our bodies will be there. So take care of your health, you know, be ready for this new technology. And never lose hope. I think those those would be my advice. So to wrap up, one final word from you guys, and once you're done, please let the viewers know also where to find you guys and how to get in touch with you.

I would like to only add that buy some Bitcoin, so free yourself from the rule. the control of other people. And then really, really think where you want to live and under what governmental rule you really want to be under. Be more free.

And where can people find you?

Oh yeah, where can people find— I think you could actually add my Twitter, twitter.com/NikoLaamanen. Radikal Anssi, link in the description. Yeah, that's the best place to find me.

Awesome. Rafael, go ahead, final remarks and where can people find more about you?

Yeah, well, I would suggest everybody to, like Anssi said, at least get familiar with Bitcoin and whatever it is. It doesn't actually relate to post-scarcity society, but I think it's a big step. towards a better system and probably towards the post-scarcity society. And also check out the resource-based economy, what it actually means, how would it work. There, there is some movies related to that, but also a little bit of other stuff. They are called Zeitgeist. Niko can probably post a link in the description. And yeah, well, educate yourself, try to be nice, don't be an asshole. And you can find me on Twitter with the handle Crypto Raif and in Telegram with that same name also.

It's been a pleasure, guys. Thank you for joining us. And thank you, viewers. If you like this, leave us a like. This has been Maximal Liberty. My name is Niko, and all the links we talked about you can find in description. These guys with me here, you can also find their Telegrams and And the tweeters under there. You can find me on Twitter, OmniFin double N at the end, and on Telegram, N1KOFI. And I'll be there almost every day answering your questions. And we'll see you next time. Until then, stay free.

Thank you. Bye-bye.