Financial Fallout! 21 Futures podcast Season 2 Ep 7

Yeah. Was perhaps suspicious of Noster at first. I had this thing in me where whenever everybody in Bitcoin is talking about something, I naturally reject it or am suspicious of it for whatever reason. So it took me a minute to get it, but once I figured it out, it was kind of like similar to the moment I was orange-pilled. I was able like you know getting that I had not considered. Where we would be able to completely transact and, you know, communicate totally permissionless. And the fact that you could send value and send Bitcoin, I mean, I think it's going to be the best way to onboard Bitcoiners. Most people won't even know they're using Bitcoin, but they'll just be getting these apps. And I think I, I see a very bright future for entertainment because of Nostr. I mean, I think it has, you know, loads of other, um, equally or perhaps more, you know, revolutionary use cases. But for me and my little world of entertainment, film, TV, I think it's, uh, an amazing tool and we're just scratching the surface of it. So yeah, recently I've just been mostly focused on trying to build a community in that ecosystem.

Yeah, for sure. To me, I mean, I wasn't around in the previous cycles of Bitcoin where it must have felt like very insular and very early and very exciting, but adoption was so low. That's what it feels like with Nostr to me now is, I mean, it's really the nerds and the the trailblazers and the pioneers who are there at the moment. And yeah, here's to hoping that more people join the protocol, understand what it is, because I'm always excited to zap people real value. And as a creative person myself, I find it life-altering that writers, artists, filmmakers, musicians, podcasters can solve the problem of the bullshit creator economy and how much of a steep pyramid it is that you've got your top 0.1% making good money and everyone else is just paying them to find out how to do it. And it's like, if we can just transfer actual value for reading a page, watching a second of a film, or listening to a podcast, That's surely the way that things should be, and it's a fair transfer of value to me.

Yeah, I totally agree. There was somebody, it was, um, I can't remember who said it, might have been like Uncle Rockstar, one of those like Bitcoin, um, NIM guys who was like, if you don't understand Nostr, I'm paraphrasing, you wouldn't have been able to buy Bitcoin in 2011 or 2012, or some sort of like correlation between those two. And it really kind of stuck with me, and I was like, huh, there's something to that. And that kind of like sent me further down the rabbit hole. But yeah, I think right now it is very niche, um, and it's not completely accessible. I think there's a lot of, you know, it's the deeper things that like the average person would struggle to do on Nostr. But it's coming. I mean, it, it's evolving quickly, and it's going to become, I think, even more accessible and more user-friendly than the bigger platforms. I foresee that happening very soon. So I think getting in now and establishing yourself and figuring out how it works and, you know, building out your little corner of that is, uh, is a great thing to focus on.

Yeah, it's interesting that we're moving from sort of these money problems. Um, shouldn't be talking about this really because the book's about money, but we're moving from the money problems which Bitcoin fixes to the societal problems like social media, where everyone knows that something is terribly wrong. Everybody knows that something is awful about Facebook and LinkedIn and X and Instagram, but they're still kind of trapped in that fiat mindset or the zone of social media. And Nostr is sort of the escape route, hopefully, from that.

Well, I think it's just hard to imagine. I mean, like, if you try to put yourself in, say, like, the 1980s when there were 3 networks on TV, you know, and then that one day there might be cable or one day there might be YouTube, it's just hard to imagine, you know, what else is beyond where we currently are. And so I think people are just stuck in that, and it's going to take a while before, you know, I mean, it's, it's there, Nostr is there, but still it's going to take a little while before people can and really see the vision. But once they do, they're going to flock there. And I think Nostr is the perfect place for the creator economy, like you touched on earlier. I think a lot of new creators that have been looked over or weren't as successful in this current paradigm are going to be wildly successful on Nostr. And I'm super excited for it.

There's a lot of, you know, daily I see a lot of great art and Yeah, a lot of interesting things happening there. And as you say, it's getting rewarded far more than it would be on other platforms because there's no algorithm for everybody to figure out and play to. And then we get the same kind of things being popular or successful in just very slightly different iterations. But yeah, exciting on that front. Let's switch focus to Financial Fallout, Sati, another great story provided by you. Another thrilling scene, escape scene. I've read a few of your stories and they seem to be— your short stories anyway— seem to be based on escape, fleeing, that kind of chase scene. Where does that inspiration come from? What interests you about that? Kind of story?

I mean, probably, uh, my paranoia about, you know, being a Bitcoiner and, and, and, and what the future holds for us. You know, it's, uh, it's hard not to be a little paranoid, and I think it's healthy, you know. So there's, there's partially that. There's also, um, when it comes to like— I make a lot of short films. I'm very active in the short film world, um, and I watch a ton of short films. And for me, I find it much easier to make a story that's very contained. Like, usually if I'm gonna do a short story or short film, I kind of make it all take place within like a 24-hour time span. For whatever reason, it's just like a— it's just once you go into more and more days and, you know, time unfolds, it becomes harder and harder to keep the story contained for me. So I think it's partially just like— It's just a formula that I kind of personally have that, like, you know, things need to happen sort of quickly in these, you know, in these short stories, short films. So that's probably where that comes from.

It's great to hear you talk about short films as well because, you know, I'm a short fiction aficionado and writer and I find it a bit sad that the 20th century network television, cinema, novels pushed us down the route where most people see story as one thing, one type of story, right? It's the 3-act structure, it's Hollywood, it's the bestselling novel. And now we're finally getting the opportunity to publish short fiction again, short film, different— Short story. multimedia formats of stories, and hopefully more people will be seeing and just engaging in a different kind of story. Is that something you think about as well? Are you keen to get away from the typical documentary or the typical Hollywood blockbuster?

Yeah, definitely. But I mean, I could tell you, for example, like Netflix, for example, as a platform generally won't buy a short film unless it's part of a compilation of short films, and they're very clear about that. They have made a few exceptions, but, um, so yeah, that's just, uh, you know, kind of like the conventional thinking. But I mean, definitely I think short film, um, is going to have its day, you know, and, uh, and I think Nostrum hopefully will play a part in that. But I mean, I just, you know— I mean, there was a time in his— in, in the history of television, like for example, my favorite TV show of all time is the original Twilight Zone, which is actually just every— it's just a different short film every episode, you know, like 22 to 24 minutes generally, and they're all brilliant. So I think there is precedent for it. But, um, yeah, we've just kind of gotten locked into this, and I think part of it has to do with the way advertisers advertising kind of dictated the way television was made and the half-hour comedy. And so as we move away from that, we're still like kind of stuck in the format. But I think as we move away from it, we'll realize that we don't need to adhere to that and it'll open up the floodgates for new formats, particularly short film, which I'm super excited about.

Yeah, anthology shows are great. I often talk about Love, Death and Robots having a kind of synergy with 21 Futures. And YouTube and publishing platforms like that open up opportunities to have films of any length. I think when somebody clicks a link on YouTube, they don't care if it's like a full 90-minute film or a 10-minute film or a 2-minute film, but they want what's inside that thumbnail and title, right? So it's a slightly different kind of— mechanic and platform. Yeah, but I should say 21 Futures, we're always looking to expand into other media formats, audiobooks, films. That is still a pipe dream at the moment, but if anyone watching has some contacts or wants to get in touch about making short films and either writing, producing, or helping in any way, um, fundraising, that would be great. It's, um, I think a way that this project could really move forward, and your trailers, Sati, really show that.

Yes, well, thank you, and I hope to, um, you know, further that. And there we do have a pretty, I would say, uh, lively Telegram group that people should join, and there has been talk about doing some, some film projects in there, so I'm hopeful that after this edition is released, some of that will actually come to fruition.

Yeah, me too. And we are— it is still on the docket, on the agenda after Book 2 is launched. We're still gonna try and move that forward.

Yeah, I'm hoping that perhaps we could decide on one story from the from the anthology to kind of focus our efforts on, and collectively some people could contribute various things. But there's, um, there's some incredible stories here that— and I think, um, you know, I'm a big, like, proponent of AI as far as, like, I think it makes making big Hollywood films more accessible to the average filmmaker. Um, and so I'm excited about it just specifically in that aspect. So I think, like, in some of these stories would normally, or 10 years ago, have cost millions of dollars to make. But I think we could, on a smaller budget, bring some of these to life. I'm very hopeful.

Yeah, great. I think that ties in with, I'm sure, AI and filmmaking and AI and all kinds of art has a similar aspect in that in 21 Futures, we use sort of AI-powered art, I would say. to allow us to bring these stories to get some visuals going and help readers really get excited about them. And that usually does the job. Lots of people really like our artwork and are on board with it. Of course, there's pushback as well, people who say, you know, you're putting artists out of jobs. But I would argue I guess you think the same. I don't think that's happening. I don't think that's gonna happen in the creative industry. People will value human-made art, and humans will change the art that they make for it to continue to be valuable. And AI can help us with that. I personally don't see it as a threat, but— Writing-wise, it's not necessarily a joy for me to use.

Yeah, I mean, I, I can see both sides. I'm certainly like, you know, empathetic with people who are, who are worried about it, and I think there's some validity to that. I personally don't worry about it. I think artists will thrive, the real artists will thrive no matter what the conditions are, so I, I don't worry too much about it. As far as using it for writing, I, it's— I have a hard time seeing it being really Super— it's very useful as an editor though. I do like to like run my stories through it and say, what do you think about this? What do you know, like, or if I have questions, I kind of use it as like a partner, but you would never allow— you wouldn't want it to write for you. I don't foresee that, but who knows.

Yeah, I think in a previous life I must have been a very bad person, like a lord or a a tyrant or something, because I really can't accept large language models and chatbots as humans, as equals. I will speak to them and insult them, and I just can't see them on the same level as me. So asking a question for me of, like, what do you think about my story? I'd be like, shut up, you're wrong.

Yeah, well, I mean, it's kind of like when you make a movie, it's like you might want to show it to a more sophisticated audience that would truly understand it. But it's always great to just show it to like an uncle who doesn't know anything and just kind of get their like base, like, you know, gut reaction to it. That could be really valuable. And I kind of see it like that, you know. It's like, well, I don't have anybody to read the story right now, just tell me what you think. What issues do you see? You know, I, I, I do think it's actually useful for that.

I, I can see that. I, I can see it's definitely, um a starting point, a jumping-off point, could throw up things that other readers or viewers won't bring up. Let's move our attention to your story in the book, The Last Node. This is perhaps one of the most Bitcoin-y stories in the new anthology, which isn't explicitly about Bitcoin. It's just financial dystopia. Um, tell us about the, the story. How did the idea come about and, um, what motivated you to, to write and submit?

Um, I actually kind of originally imagined it as like a, a silent short film or a short, like a no-dialogue short film. It's kind of how I originally imagined it and, um, And just kind of started running with it when I heard there was a new assignment in the works or a new edition in the works. And for me, really, it's more about— it's a story about parenting during the apocalypse. Like, it's really more about the father and his daughter's relationship, and they're kind of alone in this dystopian world together, and they're trying to run one of the last remaining Bitcoin nodes and doing everything to just keep the network alive. As you can imagine, most other, you know, Bitcoin-related things have been stamped out in this— in this— you know, I was just kind of like, I have a daughter, and, you know, it's just something about the relationship between these— the father and daughter is like really like the most compelling part of it to me. And what— and I do feel kind of like I am parenting during an apocalypse sometimes. lives, just because there's so many crazy things happening in the world and I want to shield my kids from it on some level. And then I just worry about, well, what world awaits them as they become adults? And it's— there's like a paranoia there that I think kind of like fuels that story.

Would you say there's any, um, truth in them treating the Bitcoin network as, as like a a living organism and as a member of their family and their tribe and something that, as you say, they're desperate to keep it alive. To what extent is it alive?

Definitely. I mean, I think that's— I certainly feel like that's the case in that they feel in this story that if the Bitcoin network dies, there is no future for humanity. And I mean, I think that You could say that's possibly hyperbolic. I don't know, actually, I think it's pretty legit. I think if, if we fail at this, if we don't get this off the ground, if we don't protect this, if we don't make this available and easily usable for every human on Earth, what awaits us is hell, essentially. So I think it's— I mean, you know, the, the, the, the dark forces that are working against us are playing for keeps, and they're looking to solidify their position as our rulers forever. And, um, I mean, I, you know, I was listening to your episode with Max Hillebrandt, and I mean, he was— he's actually way more articulate than me, and, uh, but I just appreciate his perspective on freedom. And, uh, I mean, I, I share that, and hopefully it comes through in the story.

Yeah, he's a true cypherpunk, uh, dude who's very, very well-read and eloquent. I was going to say that we're sitting here doing this podcast, speaking to the world as if everybody's listening and everybody's in on this. But in a way, it feels like we're the characters in this story telling everyone, hey, we've got to get this right. We've got to keep this going. We've got to push the ideals of freedom, freedom tech, financial freedom. Because most people out there have no idea any of this is going on. And that's understandable because we all came from that background at one point. And here's to hoping that some of these stories open people's eyes. Even if it's one person, that's another person on our side.

Yeah, slowly but surely, I think. You know,

yeah. So, um, let me just close this. Uh, I guess before we, before we, um, get into the recording part 2, um, did you want to read some of the story? Have you got it available? I can send you— Here on screen if you want.

Yeah, actually, I'm not sure what part I have to do.

I mean, the beginning is usually a good— just the first couple of paragraphs could give people—

Just the first couple paragraphs? Okay, let me bring it up.

First page maybe.

Absolutely.

Yeah, it could be nice until, um, I turned and quickly scaled the ladder.

Okay, there we go.

Okay, so, um, let me know when you're ready and I'll introduce you.

I'm ready.

Great. Okay, so Sati, do you want to, um, give us a little flavor of the first part of your story in Financial Fallout, The Last Note. Take it away.

All right, I'll do it, Ada said, stretching out her palm with steely resolve. That's not a good idea, I shot back, but she was already snatching the short cable from my hand and making her way to the ladder. Her small hands gripped the rungs as her skinny 10-year-old frame ascended. I watched, my throat tightening, but something in me stayed silent. She climbed higher, struggling with the hatch door until muted gray light spilled in, only to be swallowed again by darkness. I remembered all the times I had disappeared through that hatch, leaving Ada alone. Connecting the battery bank to the solar panels usually took 2 to 3 minutes, but each time she must have been scared I might never return. I tapped the pendant on my shirt and a soft blue light shimmered, forming the hologram of Lenora, my late wife and Ada's mother. She appeared in front of me, life-size and ghostly, tucking a stray lock of hair behind her ear. As my mind flashed to Ada up on the roof, Lenora's expression shifted slightly, a trace of concern in her eyes. She didn't need to say anything. I turned and quickly scaled the ladder. Opening the hatch door, I peeked out onto the expansive roof. The skeletal remains of what was once a boomtown on the banks of the Mississippi stretched out around me. Glassless windows like dead eyes, overgrown flora reclaiming the streets. The silence was eerie, broken only by an unnatural hum.

Wow, true dystopian description there. I can really see the exact kind of town and time and place that this happens. And let's hope to God that we don't get there and that all those Node Runners can Keep the network going.

Yeah, I mean, it's not a guarantee. I mean, I think we are, um, you know, we're in a weird place right now, and I think if we, like we were saying earlier, if we don't get this right, if we can't convince people to hop on board and, you know, push for freedom and value freedom, something like that could await. I don't think it's, I don't think it's, uh, you know, too far-fetched. I mean, you know, you look at the United States, $36 trillion in debt. If we don't figure out something, or they don't figure out something— I don't have anything to do with it— but I mean, you're just— what could happen is actually quite terrible. I don't think people— most people don't even allow themselves to think about it or consider it. We as Bitcoiners, we seem comfortable thinking about, you know, dystopia and the end. Or not comfortable, but it's something that's like prevalent in the forefront of our minds. So this is serious. These people are playing for keeps.

That's right. Hopefully these dystopian stories will open a few people's eyes and wake people up. There's also some hope in the anthology as well, I should say. It's not all doom and gloom. Dystopian stories usually have an element of The main character achieving some kind of reason to be cheerful at the end of the story. But no spoilers, you'll have to read the last note in the book, which should be out by the time this podcast airs. So check that out at 21futures.com/shop. We've got loads more stories, including interviews, reviews, opinion pieces, lots of stuff on our blog as well. And if you're a writer and you want to submit either a manuscript or a story based on freedom principles, libertarianism, Austrian economics, Bitcoin, all that kind of stuff, then get in touch and we will get back to you within— can you guess how many days, Sati?

I'm going to say 21.

That's right, 21 days. A little bit obsessed with that number, but unfortunately it's not my age anymore. Where can people find you, Sati, and what are you up to at the moment? Anything that you want to plug or talk about before we go?

Well, as mentioned earlier, I'm a NOSTA maximalist. I mean, I do have Twitter just to kind of read the news, but I don't put my heart into it. And so look for me on Twitter, Satillionaire. Also love it if people followed my little daily film festival, daily film contest, Bullish Bounty, which is also on Nostr. You can post videos with the hashtag Bullish Bounty, and at the end of every day at 2100 UTC, the video with the highest zaps wins 2100 sats. It's been going for about 6 months. Plan to keep it going. It's just a fun way, fun community. It's interesting to see what people post. So yeah, find me there, Bullish Bounty and Satillionaire.

That's great. We'll post links under the video as well, so check those out. Thanks so much for coming on the show. Really looking forward to everyone being able to see the amazing trailer that you've made for Financial Fallout. And keep up the great work with your creative filmmaking and escape flee scene writing.

All right. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me.

See you then.

All right. Thanks, Phil.