#117 - Leslie Greenwood - Founder & CEO of Chief Evangelist Consulting - Evangelist-Led Growth

Sales, marketing, RevOps, and customer success. It's sink or swim out there, and yesterday's strategies and tactics won't help you today. This is Revenue Today, and I'm your host, Jared Robin. Join me as we interview top revenue leaders in our community to learn what steps we could take right now to help you scale more effectively. Revenue Today is sponsored by Rev Genius and Rev Room, and we're on a mission to build trusted spaces for curious revenue professionals who are collaborating on the future of B2B GTM. Hey, dear friends, I'm joined by an incredible guest, um, for this week's episode of Revenue Today. She has been a leader in CS. For many years and transitioned to working for Pavilion in a similar role, which is a phenomenal community of revenue professionals. And right now she has started her own Chief Evangelist Consulting as the founder and CEO. Welcome, Leslie Greenwood. How are you?

Welcome. Well, thank you for welcoming me. Welcoming me, Jared Robin. I need more coffee, obviously.

I just gave up coffee, uh, as of 2 days ago. And the irony is, um, I, I've, I've like woken up earlier, just not by alarm, by subtle anxiety as I call it. Um, and, uh, and like those are the days I'm saying no to coffee, so it makes me really I, I know I have to be serious about scaling it back, so to speak.

Oh, sounds horrible. I'm not— I'm not co-signing with you on that.

Um, TBD. I, I, I don't need extra coffee though in the morning, for those that, uh, that know me. But really excited to have you, excited to learn from you, and, you know, just want to come out with a bang, like Would love to hear you debunk a myth about GTM.

That is a great question. And if we're talking about primarily SaaS people, there's a lot of myths, but the one that I'm probably the most passionate about is that not everything needs to be scalable. We do not— we're gonna try something, and the first question out of someone's mouth is like, Is that scalable? I'm like, we haven't tried it yet. Why? We don't need to talk about that. Hold, hold, please.

And this is, this is big. Like, so, so many companies early on say, do what isn't scalable, but you're saying just continue it throughout.

I mean, it depends on the situation. If you can't prove ROI at some point, and there is a time when some things have to move to scalability, but I think so many people put it up as a roadblock. in order to even begin the process. And there are things, in my opinion, of course, we're going to talk about evangelists, which seem unscalable, but they actually are scalable, that you just need to do. And there's a whole movement of what's old is new I'm seeing. I don't know if you're seeing that too. Yeah. It's like the human connection, talking about being more intentional with that and stop calling everybody a SQL and MQL, and kind of going back to basics, everything you do on that is pretty unscalable. And so, I'm saying, let's capitalize on that and go for it.

And, you know, being a community person, I couldn't agree more. Now, you're a community person as well, an evangelism person. I would love to hear some examples of some of the unscalable things That you've seen have tremendous success?

Yeah. One example, I mean, is an example from when I was with Pavilion. You know, I was there when we went from 2,000 to 10,000 members and was in charge of everything post-enrollment. So, you name it, I might've called you for collections at some point. Totally not scalable and not a job I wanted to do. But, you know, we would kind of, we called it roam the halls of Slack. And we would find little nuggets about people. Someone got a new job, someone had a baby, someone got married, and we would literally log into wine.com or Printful and send them a t-shirt or a bottle of wine. Totally not scalable. We had a spreadsheet this long. We had a budget and we just worked through the items every month. But what that did was Those people, if they weren't an evangelist or they weren't somebody that would go talk about Pavilion in public, they would now because they're going to post that thing on LinkedIn. And that drove so much business. And I'm experiencing the same thing now. I send every one of my podcast guests and some customers Grove cookies. If you go into my feed and see what I'm tagged in, I am— I bet over 50% of the cookies I've sent have ended up on LinkedIn. What does that mean for me? $33 cookies equals hundreds and thousands of dollars of free advertising because it's personal and it actually is non-scalable.

This is so incredible. Like, do you know, like, what percentage of folks that you surprised and delighted? would post and all those numbers and some of the loops around that?

You know what? I don't know. I'm guessing it's 50% of everyone I've sent has said something and then it hits their networks. And, you know, I have pretty decent guests on, so they have really good networks. Like when Sam McKenna or Matt Green post about my gift to them, I'm getting a lot more views than I'm getting off my own Off my own stuff. The other thing it does is it cements a relationship, and those are the people that will go and refer me to other people. So that one little thing, actually, I have not measured the ROI, but that one thing makes a huge difference in my business.

And you mentioned, um, you know, before hopping on, like, us and technology and your work there. And phenomenal organization. Is there anything you could share about like the early go-to-market advice from your evangelism and community mind that might not be scalable as well?

Yeah. So this is what we're working on right now. We've rolled out an ambassador program, which when I talk about ambassadors, I oftentimes consider them a paid person. You know, they might get equity or something. It's more of a formal program. These are actually evangelists. They're just people that love the program. And so right now we're in the middle of posting one by one individual messages or individual posts on LinkedIn and Instagram highlighting the people. What do I need them? What do I need every person that works at us in tech to do? Go and like and comment, make them feel special. Like that is a huge part of like our next level of growth strategy. And so that's one example. And if you'll permit me another example—

We want all the examples.

All the examples. Okay. So I'm also an advisor for Porch. It is a community out of Canada. It's for international immigrant entrepreneurs moving to Canada. It's basically like their line as they're working through the visa process. They become a part of this community, they meet people, and then they, when they end up in Canada, they already have a network. They know where to find an immigration lawyer. They've already connected with an immigration lawyer. There's so many benefits that they have. And the community launched 8 months ago. And last month I counted because LinkedIn for some reason has no good way to figure this out, how many members posted about their community, tagged Porch in the community.

Yeah.

It was 51 in one month. They don't have thousands of members. So, 51 people, just because they love Porch, go out and talk about it. And that's because of the extra care, extra service, and delivering an experience beyond expectation. And they've— they're benefiting greatly from that.

Yeah, it seems like, um, there's, there's a couple nuances going on. One, um, surprise and delight from, um, Pavilion. You have, uh, in Porch just giving them a really good experience and, and them doing it. And the third, us in technology, it sounds like you're picking out people that have had good experiences or have been active, I'm guessing, on social, but could be anywhere, or in Slack, or whatever network. Is that right? Are there 3 different, slightly different use cases there?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. There are different parts of the journey. So, when I talk about evangelism, like, there's identify, engage, and amplify. So, in us in technology, we're on Amplify because we found the people, they filled out a form, they told us why they want to be an ambassador. We put those quotes on our graphic and it's like, you changed my life, you gave me an opportunity, I've met so many friends. And now we put them out and our goal is, you know, we want them to feel special. We want them to feel, you know, You know, like, part, really part of it. And also, then they're gonna tell more people about it. More people are gonna see it. More people will know the name Us in Technology. And then, you know, those are the people that we rely on to get feedback and have one-on-one calls with. So, that's the amplification part. The pavilion was the identify part. So, I may go and look and see who's really active. And I'll find that person. And if they've had a life moment or they've just been doing great, send them a t-shirt. That's the engage part. And then right now, the identify part really is Porch. Who are the people that are constantly showing up, etc.? And then, then it's engaging them and helping them be more confident to post about Porch. So really, it's Kind of the same thing, but they're different stages of the journey to get to the evangelism part.

Yeah. My biggest question always was, when you've scaled, how do you identify the people to make evangelists?

I have so many ideas. So, okay, do you want to talk about in community first, or if you don't have a community first?

If you're a SaaS company.

You're a SaaS company.

And then in community, because that's just my personal wanting to know that.

Of course, of course. So, if you're a SaaS company, you have no community right now, you can look at product usage data. So, who's in there every day? And who's— so, who's your internal evangelist? So, you have 10 seats, 3 seats are being used, and you got 1 superuser, and it's probably not the champion or the person that wrote the check. How do you get to that person so they can influence more people to use seats, which makes your product stickier, renew better, et cetera? Or what kind of feedback can you get from them on how you might overcome the renewal conversation? So that's one. It is also who's leaving you NPS comments. I don't really care about the numbers. The numbers don't tell me anything, but if you took time to write a comment and you had a suggestion or feedback, Then I wanna talk, I wanna know your name. I wanna figure out who you are, why did you say that? And then are you a candidate then to be that evangelist for me? The other place, you know, support feedback, you know, who are— then ask your customer success people, ask your support, your tier 1 support knows who are your frequent flyers, who calls every day, who gives you the feature requests that you may not want. But they're so invested in the product that they give it to you anyway. Who's that person? So, you know, that's, that's how I would find them, start to find them in without a community, in a community.

Well, then the second part of that is for like growth purposes. So you laid out a really nice way to grow the accounts. And when I say growth purposes, for marketing purposes. Is there anything that you would add?

Oh, like to use that data on a, from a marketing perspective going forward?

Yeah. Like, like to help, to help generate demand.

Yeah. I mean, customer, you test your normal testimonials, et cetera. People are, and you know this from running Rev Genius, that people love having an elevated status. So if the person is the right persona, Why don't you post their testimonial on LinkedIn, tag them, make them feel special, give them a little bit of authority within that. And that's now perfect word-of-mouth marketing. And now you probably recemented them as an evangelist for you as well. Just one idea.

I love it. KPIs, like how do we know these not scalable activities? are going in the right direction? What do you like to roll out?

Yeah, it depends on where the company is. So, you know, I'm oftentimes working with either new companies or people revamping their kind of the way they go work their community. So, there are 2 things that I look at. One is benchmark your referral data. A lot of people, their referral data, they don't have it. They don't know it. They couldn't give me a list of the people. We can find them if you have an open HubSpot form in your call. We'll just download that and see how many John Does, you know, show up and let's, let's find them. So you benchmark that. And then as you start doing some of these evangelists growing processes, how does that change? Do their names start showing up more? And so see if your referrals go Increase. The other thing is social mentions. So if you're doing that and you're making people feel a certain way about your brand, which I'm very much into, like, what does it feel like to be a customer of X? What does it feel like to be a member of Rev Genius or Rev Room? What does it feel like to be a customer of a certain company? Do you make me feel attached more than others? So then it's looking at those social mentions. Are people talking about you? What does that look like? And then, what does your word-of-mouth kind of, I don't know, results look like? So, that's where I'd start because you can't measure it. I mean, they're not going to end up on a dashboard for a long time because creating evangelists is like, you know, it's like brand. It's going to take a while. But if you start there, you could see some incremental improvements over time, for sure.

That's super helpful. Now, um, what's keeping you up at night?

Um, what's keeping me up at night? Okay, so I am currently, um, a founder of my one company. I have just co-founded another company, Wednesday Women. Um, so business development is always, you know, top of mind. But more than that, I'd say it is balancing as a solopreneur, all of the things that I need to do. I need to deliver client work. I need to have phone calls. I need to, you know, keep, keep in touch with my evangelists who refer me. And I need to do some outbound, you know, outbound stuff. I have nothing. I don't even have a— I don't have anything set up in HubSpot for marketing. So it's like, how do I balance all that stuff out? and still feel very fulfilled in my job and still do the things that I love, which is like, I want to work in community, I want to talk about community, and I don't want to post freaking my podcast on LinkedIn and all of this kind of stuff. And I'm in that stage where, you know, I'm not making enough to like hire someone, but not hiring someone is stifling me. So, that's— it's like that growth. Oddly enough, I think it's scaling, which is keeping me up at night. Isn't that a little crazy crap?

The irony isn't lost. I mean, like, what advice would you give for others in the same situation? Like, what have you learned?

I have to time block. Number one, I have to time block and, you know, really focus in on the things that make the biggest difference. I think as— and probably you saw this too when you were first starting out— there are so many things you could be doing. that may seem important, but they're not that 80%. They're not the big rocks that need to be moved. And that's kind of how I've started organizing my to-do list. It's like big rocks, tasks. I got to be moving on the big rocks every day, otherwise, the tasks will overwhelm me. And so, it's really that kind of organization that I'm trying to put into place, not necessarily 100% successful

yet. It's hard, uh, for sure. And, um, as a founder, you could have something to do every second of every minute of the day. Um, you hit the nail on the head with, with focusing. Uh, figuring out where that focus should be is, is, is the first step because, um, it's not always who's gonna give me money and who's not. There, there's leading indicators as well, right? Mm-hmm. That's, that's big. But what excites you about the future of the whole SaaS space evangelism, whatever?

I think we're going to see a new realm in community. So like, you know, I have lots of talks about community. I love talking to early-stage founders about community because they love it and they get it. Now, oftentimes they can't quite afford it yet, either in time or money, but I love that they're having these conversations. Like, if I could talk to forward-thinking SaaS founders that are probably, you know, post-seed round all day, that are open to the idea of community beyond— we talked about this a little bit before— beyond demand gen, beyond customer success, that can take this holistic view of it and think about it for brand, think about it for creating evangelists, which will drive, you know, I feel a lot of money and a lot of revenue downstream, but it's gonna take some time, and they're willing to make those commitments. Like, if I could talk to people like that all day, I mean, that's what I'm excited about. I'm excited about having those conversations, which I think are a leading indicator to more conversations. I'm also excited that, you know, we had Community 1.0. You know, that's, that's when You know, a lot of communities were born. They threw up a Slack instance, or they put up a Mighty Network, or whatever, and they called it a community. Those are folding or have already folded. And I think there is a big opportunity for community builders and communities that really wanna double down on throwing in strategy, having a point of view, et cetera, to grab up a lot of these community people that are still looking for for their group, but they lost it somewhere else. So, I think there's big momentum in the future for community.

And you're referring to third-party communities away from companies when you say that?

No, I could be talking about companies too, because, I mean, the number of people I talk to that say, well, we tried it, but it didn't work. Well, that's because no one talked about— well, no, people did. People were always talking about community strategy, but not in this earlier stage SaaS world. They weren't talking about, like, we knew Salesforce had a great community. We knew HubSpot had a great community, but nobody of the size in the, you know, $1 to $50 million was talking about community. And so, those are dying or dead. And they're there, they have a community, but I wouldn't say that it's— You know, they're not all fabulous, let's put it that way.

Agreed. And I'm— what gets me the most curious, because I've spoken to some early-stage folks as well, when they become a Series B company with a little more VC and a little less— a little more people in the boardroom, does that conversation change? Because they don't have the money to invest now. And then when other people come in, are they saying, oh, give me $15 million, I'm going to invest in community? Or are they saying, I'm going to invest in what's going to generate revenue?

Yeah, I mean, there's, there's going to be a balance. I mean, I think that they have to really understand, and if they can understand the long-term play of that, because I will straight up tell people when I'm working with them, there's nothing that we're going to do that you're going to put on a board slide for the next 18 months. I'm very upfront about that. Now, it's not gonna cost them $15 million to do a community, but that's why I'm excited that these community conversations are happening, because I think they will become more accepted by the board. You say, I'm gonna have a community. Yeah. You give them the strategy in which you're gonna build the community, and I think they're gonna start understanding. I think what happens is, especially, and you probably hear this as well, but like the people I talk about community, There's 75 different versions of what people call community. It's like when we call every tissue a Kleenex. Well, some are scratchy and I don't want to use them, and some feel like a dream. And that's exactly the way that we're using community right now.

Yeah. And it's funny because the community leaders I've spoken to— it's not funny. It's normal. If they've worked for 3 communities, they've had 3 different game plans. And there's— it's not a rinse and repeat. It's understanding the market, building something for the people. A Pavilion member is going to be different than a GitHub member, is going to be different than a Zapier member.

Yep. They each

need their own recipe. They all need their own recipe. So like having, having like a listening stage and stuff like that, I think, I think Yeah, I think you're spot on. I think community is gonna have to come from SaaS companies building it.

Yeah, for this, we have to— B2C has been doing it forever. B2C does it great. They have great communities, and they have advocates, and they have people talking about them all the time. And just, it just has not, you know, come down to the normal size B2B in the way the way it could. When you think like what you just said, it's like 100% different. So like, I'm going to work on engagement highly in some of these third-party communities. In other communities, I'm going to talk about acquisition, upsell, success. It could be a— I don't really work in customer support, but like, are you offsetting support costs? Like, there's all these differences and people don't usually choose one. It's like maybe you choose one as a main And then second and a tertiary. Every recipe is different. And then how we go about executing on that strategy is totally different and is about 75 steps for anybody that's curious and thought they're just going to go start a community tomorrow. If you want to do it right, it's not going to happen by turning on a button.

Yeah, I think I'm excited about the future of community too, because I do think the light has been turned on and that's That's an important step. I think that there's a massive opportunity because not a ton of folks know community and can do it. But I do, I think there's a massive opportunity to teach folks as well. And I think it's, I think it's an exciting time. All right. I want to transition this, like the first half we learned from you. of this podcast. I want to learn about you. Who are you, Leslie?

Who am I? Well, it's funny. I have answered this question in interviews before, and I'm sitting in front of a CEO and they ask, you know, who are you? And my answer always is, I'm a mom. Like, at my core, I'm a mom. That's how I will describe myself all the time. Now, that's a benefit. And there's also this part of me who's like, when someone says, oh my God, I can't believe I'm talking to you. I'm like, why? I'm a Midwestern housewife. Like, you know, ex-stay-at-home mom is on my LinkedIn profile because I was making fun of all the ex-Google people and stuff. So, I'm like, I'm an ex-stay-at-home mom. So, like, first and foremost, I'm a mom. I am passionate about diversity in tech. I have a multiracial family, and so, I want my family to have more opportunities than what people are having now to get into tech, and to not just get into tech, but actually grow in the ranks and make it beyond director, just like women. I wanna see more women in the C-suite. So, I'm just like, that is something I'm super passionate about, working with underrepresented founders. And other than that, you know, I'm a little, I'm a little, I'm a little opinionated. I have a lot of ideas. I'm a DC on the DISC, which means I'm direct and like data. So I explain that as I'm, I think I'm right and I'm probably going to tell you why. So that's, that's, that's one of my personality traits and Yeah, and I like to work, and I have very bad boundaries. I don't keep my personal boundaries very well. I say yes to too many things, but I'm in progress.

I think community people are all guilty of that, by the way. I think, I think, I think it's a similar trait. Like, oh, that looks cool. Any qualification? I like them. Like, that's like, I like the person. That's the qualification. Let's go.

Yep.

I just— somebody asked me to be an advisor today. I told them, um, I don't care if the product works. I like you that much that I need to. Normally, I'm a little more pragmatic, but this person was great.

Oh, there's a good human bonus system. Like, if you are just a good human, like, at your core, you're kind, you do things for others, you help people, like, that honestly will get— just like what you were describing, that will get you so far. I will go move mountains for you if you are just a really good human.

Karma. Yeah. And I think so. Tell me about the companies. You mentioned a couple. I want to learn more. Your main gig, your women's gig, Wednesday Women, and anything else that I missed?

Advisory, just advisory roles. But those are the two I'm officially, officially So, yeah, Chief Evangelist Consulting launched last November, basically working with companies or communities. So, either networking or communities of practice, or companies looking to build or advance their communities, go in and most of the time do an assessment and see what's going right, see what's going wrong, see if do we even have the sticky glue to build a community. Because I would say every 4 calls, I'm like, do some research and then come back to me. later because they don't have the glue to keep a community together. And so we'll work on that. We'll strategically plan and then implement it through launch. And then same thing with— sorry, now see, we talked about this. Now I'm saying 8,000 times and it's probably all—

For everyone listening, Leslie is a phenomenal public speaker, but she, like us all, have some flaws. And I I, I, I can't, can't wait to not listen to how many times I probably said, um.

Yes. So the— okay, now forget Mark Flip to change this. What is your— what was your question again? I got myself lost.

So we talked about Chief Evangelist Consulting and now Wednesday Women.

Okay, perfect. And then the other company that we actually just launched is Wednesday Women, and it really is a passion project. We have this group of women that I've actually started scraping about a year and a half ago. Every time someone would post, who are the women CEOs I need to know? I don't know enough. They're not in my feed. And as people tag people, I either personally or I hired someone from Fiverr eventually to go in and scrape their names. And I have a database of 600 people that have been peer-nominated. as women to follow. And so, I was just, you know, playing around with that. I had it, I'd post it here and there. And then, I think I ended up on Melissa Moody's post from the CMO and co-founder.

I love her.

Yeah, she's my partner. Like, so, we're co-founders.

I just sent her an email this weekend.

Oh, great. Yeah, so, she's my co-founder. She's like, you wanna do something with this? And, you know, she's— we have this strategic plan, we have this, we have marketing, we have, a website. It's all about every week we feature 1 to 2 women on Wednesday. We tell about them and we tell about them more than just their professional accolades that you could talk about on LinkedIn. It's really just to gain more visibility for them. I want to see more women on panels and speakers, etc. And so just amplifying their profiles so they get more more visibility. And that's where we're starting. And we've grown really fast, which is very interesting. And 1,600 followers in, I don't know how many weeks, 5, 6 weeks on a business page. So, um, so we're looking to take that to the next level and just see where it goes.

If I could help in any way, like, I would love to. Um, I, I have so many thoughts, uh, I think women investors would be an interesting angle because when the money comes from women, you know, it flows, you know, a certain way. And not just women, like more diversity amongst the investors in general is something that I think could solve a lot in general.

Yeah. And direct money.

Yeah, I, I, I love the idea. It's, it's awesome.

Thank you. I probably need to pick your brain on, um, we're looking for our first sponsors, so I probably need to pick your brain. You're good at getting sponsorships, so I should probably talk to you about that.

We could talk. We could, we could absolutely talk. And, um, yeah, that, that would be so exciting because I, I, I think It's a great thing. Does it just come out in a newsletter, or is it on LinkedIn? It's on LinkedIn.

Right now, it's just on LinkedIn because, seriously, we are both founders of other companies. We are doing this like I'm slacking her at 11:00 PM at night, and we're making carousels and trying to comment on things. So, right now, it is on LinkedIn, and then we have a website, wednesdaywomen.org. Which has a little bit more information, but we need development.

What do you think, as of now, what do you think the goal is outside of lifting women? Like, is there, is there any target or goals that you've set up to—

We have all kinds of plans. Like, there's some easy ones, there's some longer-term ones, but there are more like a database. So, let's say, you know, people are like, I couldn't find a great speaker of X, and that's, you know, the reasons why they don't have a diverse panel. Well, there's no excuse for that because we want in people's minds, I need to go find an expert speaker and I'm looking to have a diverse panel. Oh, yeah, I should go to Wednesday Women. That's what we want to be known for. We want to be known that that's where you go to get access to Um, the women. And, um, yeah, I mean, there's just, uh, okay, I'll leak out something.

Yeah, I'm waiting for it because you two are just powerhouses. What?

Wed Talks. So like TED Talks, these are Wednesday Women. So Wed Talks, like,

okay,

getting, you know, having these women to have the showcase, you know, if they don't have a speaker reel already, that'll get them a speaker reel so they can get more speaking. Engagement. So yeah, I could go on and on. I

think you know why Wednesday? Why Wednesday is the day?

Melissa, genius CMO, thought it was a great word.

I love it.

So I defer to her on all marketing things.

This has been an incredible conversation. I, I am so happy we were able to peel back the onion, like what's going on with Wednesday Women, because I know a lot of people are. Really, um, excited for it. And, uh, and we know that you two are so brilliant that it's got to be more than just posting great women. Like, how, how else are you doing that? That's going to be fun to, fun to watch.

We're, we're, we're excited. We just need, we just need time.

That's incredible. And, and I'm excited too. So what I'm most excited about in the future is seeing how that, um, How that helps lift women in the space and hopefully other spaces too.

Yeah, we're expanding. I mean, Jared, you know, we can't stay in SaaS. We're going to run out of women to— executive women to feature in like 4 weeks. So—

Oh my gosh. Yeah. I mean, but, but, but like training programs to get women up to executive politic— not politicking, You know, lobbying big companies to like, like change how they hire and stuff and all educating big companies, I should say, on how they change— pardon the choice of words. But that's exciting. And unfortunately, unfortunately, what you're doing is needed, but fortunately you're doing it.

Yeah. Well, our goal right now is small ripples. You know, yeah, it's just on LinkedIn, but if— and it's a small ripple, but if one of our Wednesday Women get an opportunity to speak from it, they increase their followership by a couple hundred people, which increases their reach and brings them more opportunities. Like, that's a huge win. And that's why we're focused real small and real niche right now is just to, you know, we want to make these small ripples that'll eventually lead to big change.

Let's set up— let's talk offline about this in more detail. I want to help wherever I can, but In closing, how can people get in touch with you?

Well, there's— according to my screen time on my phone, there's one place that you can find me an awful lot, and that is on LinkedIn. So, just Leslie-Greenwood on LinkedIn. Hit me up on LinkedIn. I have a website, wednesdaywomen.org and thechiefevangelist.com are other ways. But yeah, just hit me up on LinkedIn, or if you're in one of the communities I'm in, You know, you'll find me on Slack somewhere.

Leslie, this has been so great. Thank you for coming on today.

Oh, you're welcome. Thank you for having me. It's nice to meet you finally.

This is only the first of our discussions, and I'm excited to see what we could do together. And for everyone listening, thank you for listening. If you learned something or you liked it, give Give it a like, share it with some people, evangelize it.

Yeah, let's build some evangelists here, Jared.

Evangelize it. Uh, want to learn more about Leslie? Um, you know, she, she outlaid all the spots that she could, uh, be found. Thank you for coming today and have a great day. We'll see you, we'll see you next week. Thank you, friends, for joining me. That was another great episode of Revenue Today. If you're looking to listen to more episodes or for the show notes, go to revgenius.com. For all my friends in the Rev Genius community, it was awesome to spend this time with you. Please DM me any feedback or ideas for future podcasts in our Slack channel or on LinkedIn. If you're not in Rev Genius, join us. It's revgenius.com. It's free and it's fast to join and really for all levels of revenue professionals. For senior leaders, we just launched a private community just for you called RevRoom. We know it gets lonely out there, and we've built a tight-knit group of senior leaders collaborating on the future of B2B go-to-market. Looking forward to seeing you all there.