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Hey, hey, hey.

We're gonna do something a little different in the feed today. Those of you who are regular listeners of the show know about the podcast Real Good by US Bank. We've been sharing this podcast with you for years because frankly, it's really good. Every season, Real Good seeks out to tell stories of people putting in the work. We know what that's all about. It's a podcast that shows us that while the world is imperfect, there are people out there trying to make it better. Real Good's put out four amazing seasons and they just started season five. One word that I would say that describes the Real Good Podcast by US bank is inspiring. I'm about to share with you episode one from Season five. In this episode, instead of featuring a guest, our hosts will set the stage for the season while looking back at all the great moments of the first four seasons so you'll get all caught up after. If you like what you heard, go listen and subscribe to the Real Good podcast wherever you get your podcast. Again, it's called Real Good by US Bank. You don't want to miss it, go ahead and subscribe now.

This is Real Good by US Bank, a podcast about helpers.

It's the reason why I'm a filmmaker. I believe in voice. All I ever wanted was A voice, and it's why I do what I do.

He said it would never be enough to convince other people we belong at the table if we're not convinced that we belong there ourselves. You're more than ready. You belong at the table.

And I'm representing 63 million people. Right. They want to see their stories being told, so I don't take it lightly.

I'm Faith Saley. Welcome back to another season of Real Good. Number five. This season's going to focus on some amazing work being done by leaders who are primarily Latino or Hispanic and or Latinx. However you identify, we are here for it. At the start of the episode, you heard from a few of our guests, a filmmaker, a business leader and a museum director. And you'll hear more from them this season. With each conversation, we're going to bring you the personal stories of successful people who are making the world a better place. I'm not going to give it all away, but you might get some tears, you might get some unfiltered honesty, and you're going to get a bunch of laughter. I gotta say, I'm really proud of this season. If you ever wonder whether decision makers are having real conversations about cultural shifts, equality, personal challenges, the kind of stuff you talk about with your friends, the answer is they do. With us on Real Good. When's the last time you heard C suiters be super vulnerable because that's what you're in for this season. But first, before we get into our guest stories, I and my co host, Greg Cunningham, chief diversity officer and senior executive vice president of US bank, are going to get into it ourselves. We're going to take a beat, look back at some of the themes we've threaded through previous seasons and tease a little of what you can expect. Coming up, we also check out some projects we've worked on since you last heard from us. After all, if we're talking about what's real good, you might want to know that we've invested in the work as well. Greg, this is. This is the first episode of the. You're blowing on your coffee because you know you need to caffeinate for this.

I need to caffeinate for this one first episode. Season.

This is season five.

Thank you. Thank you. For five seasons.

Oh, my gosh.

Real good. No, seriously, thank you. It's been an honor, really. And fun.

Yeah. Both the things. And it's been three years and a month. And the reason I know that is because on one of our first episodes, and it may have been the first time I met you over Zoom, of course, because we're in a pandemic. George Floyd had just been murdered in your city.

Yeah.

And I actually remember we referenced it in that interview. I don't remember whom we were interviewing. I remember referencing it. And we actually had this quick back and forth, like, should we even. Should we go there? Should we talk about it?

Right, right.

And in retrospect, the. I don't know if the word is irony is that when this whole show was conceived, it was like, hey, there's this pandemic going on. Let's. Let's shine the light on what U.S. bank is going to do for disproportionately affected communities during the pandemic.

Yeah.

And then we were like, oh, there's something underneath. Like, they're disproportionately affected for a reason.

Yes. Yeah. There's some layers that we needed to peel back, and we needed to have some real conversations about where people are and why communities are the way they are without pointing fingers, but really dealing with some of the tough issues. But most importantly, what I think this podcast has sort of emerged into is a real focus and our ability to shine the light on people who are doing real work every single day to help people's lives get better.

Yeah.

And the bank just wants to be a catalyst and enabler of this great work and the great work of the people who are doing it and bringing visibility to them. And we've tried very hard, and I think you've done a masterful job of making sure that the conversations stay focused on these people and the incredible sacrifice and service that they provide to these communities.

Thank you. You started by thanking me. I'll say thank you because I continue to learn so much every time we meet someone new. And even. Even though we often hear the same themes, one of them being mothers are awesome. Right. I feel like everybody has these amazing mom stories. Right. But we hear the same themes, and yet everybody's origin story is unique and moving.

Yeah. Yeah. And we've been able to. I think everybody that's. Come on. What has also been really a pleasant surprise for me is almost to a person. Everybody we've interviewed has says the experience of coming on here and the conversation was something completely different from what they anticipated.

Oh, I love that.

That they. They didn't know what to think. And I remember specifically the first person to say it, I think, was Jay Bailey. And that must have been season three, maybe.

Yeah. I love Jay. His energy. He was all 404. Right. That's Atlanta.

I was expecting. Yeah, he's a four. The ATL, but he was expecting, like, this corporate thing. And I just remember not with you and me. No. And I showed up. I showed up with something I had on that day, and you were kind of joking with me about it, and. And Jay just said something like, oh, this is what this is going to be.

This is how it's going to be.

This is how this is going to go down for the next couple of hours. I'm so with this. And it has just flowed in such a natural way. And I'm so proud of the bank, and I'm so proud of what we've created and our ability to just really normal conversations with people and allowing our listeners to just sort of eavesdrop on these conversations we're having.

I want to go over some of the themes and things that I've learned, but before we do that, I feel like. I feel like we can't talk about anything else except the news that you just learned. I mean, I.

Should we say it? Should we say it?

Yeah. Yeah. Well, breaking news.

Breaking news. So just yesterday, we have this film that we have gotten behind in partnership with director Rudy Valdez, and as the launch of our access commitment helping to close wealth disparities in the Hispanic community, we wanted to tell these stories of these 11 million kids who translate everyday life for their families. And the film we helped produce is called Translators, and we debuted it during the Tribeca Film Festival here in the summer of 2023. And we just learned that we won Tribeca X and the film won Tribeca X. And it's like a huge moment. So I don't know if we have an applause machine or something.

I watched you absorb that news, and you were overcome with emotion.

Yeah, I still am because I was very proud of it from the very beginning. And I'm proud of it because it's not a U.S. bank story. It's not about U.S. bank. It's about these three families and these incredible kids. And I just. It's been a labor of love for so many people, including all the folks who are behind it from a creative perspective, a production perspective. And I just. I loved it because I wanted to almost have this gift to the Hispanic community to say, I see you, and we see you, that the bank sees you.

And.

And we want you to tell your story, and we want you to share your vision with us of what you want your communities to look like. And this film just sort of encapsulates all of that for me and a way of Expressing truly what's in my heart and truly what's in the intention of the bank and how we want to go about this work and for it to be recognized and accepted. It's just. It's hard to describe how I feel right now because it's not about an award, but it is about this notion of acceptance. And people think the story is worthy of being told, and I do as well. And I just want more people to. To lean in and see this story as a truly human story, a truly American story, and one that we should all, you know, find ourselves in.

We are going to have an episode later this season with the director so that everyone who's listening to this, who wants to. Yeah. Who wants to know more about it, we're gonna, we're gonna lean into that and. And learn all about the film. But it is, it is, Is a short film. We should tell people. Like you said, it follows three minutes.

Yep.

It is so joyful and human.

Yes.

Intimate.

Yes. Delicate, respectful. And at the same time it's optimistic. And I think that is something that I want us all to have more of. Just this notion of optimism. And these kids just leave you so optimistic about our future and what is actually possible. And that just ties so directly to our purpose as a bank, in this notion of optimism and the power of potential and how we as an organization, a financial services organization, can be a catalyst for all of that.

And this show, every single person we've talked to, no matter where they've come from or the challenges they've faced, it's always optimistic. When I have. I don't know how you've described the show to people in the beginning. I said to people. Well, it's.

Ooh.

I mean, it's kind of about systemic racism. But wait, there's more. It's joyful, right?

Yes, it is.

Because, I mean, an easier way to describe it is that it amplifies the voices of people doing good in the world. Right.

That's a much better description.

And at the same time, there is so much underneath and uncovering systemic racism, which is a huge, clunky, frankly, off putting term. Right. Because it's just. How do you even approach that? Well, you approach it with people's personal stories.

Yes.

And what they are doing individually with support and access and commitment and uplift to make the world a better place.

I would like to. Yes. To all of that. And I think what we like to do here is just have conversations that are truthful and honest and unafraid and not to. It's never, ever been about trying to shame or blame anybody or anything for conditions. But to have real conversations about how we got here so that we can have real conversations about how we continue to fulfill our promise as a society, as an organization, as a nation, like, that's what we all want. This is all about how do we get to outcomes, to better outcomes. Because when we all win, we all win. Like, nobody wins when we have communities that are in pain. Nobody wins when we have issues of safety, of poverty, that's bad for everybody. And we just want everyone to sort of have an appreciation. Like, we have a collective destiny here as a country. And like, your neighbor's not your enemy. It's ridiculous. And we've just been, I think, able to have guests on who are willing to have those honest, very truthful conversations, whether you agree or disagree with what they say or what we say on this podcast. I think what we try to do is to invite everybody in in a really truthful kind of way so that we can get to better outcomes.

You and the guests we have had on have given me a lot of room to learn. I have learned so much listening to these folks, including you. And I wanted to share with you a few things I've been working on lately. Because when I do these are for some CBS Sunday MORNING stories. And when I do these stories, I'm like, oh, this is what we talked about. I've been here before. These are the stories I've heard from these individual people on this podcast being played out in real life. So I like, look, I see you see, I brought things to show you. Now, I do realize this is. We don't have a visual, so I'm gonna describe. So this is a book I'm holding up called Crowned. And I interviewed Karen and Regis Bethencourt, who are these two black photographers in Atlanta. And years ago, they would take pictures of kids. And years ago. Here, I'll let you flip through it while I talk to you. Years ago, they told me that kids would come in and they're. And these are little kids, like, I think they do, ages 3 to 14. And their parents would straighten their hair before they'd come in.

Yeah.

And they were like, whoa, no, no. We want you the way you are, and we want to celebrate that. So they originally went viral doing this Afro art series where they did unbelievable things with these kids and pictures of their natural hair.

Yes.

Just outrageous and stunningly beautiful and powerful. So they just published this book called Crowned, where they reimagine fairy tales that we all know. So on the COVID there is Snow White, but in this fairy tale, she's called Ebony Black. Oh, look, Goldilocks has locks.

Goldilocks has real locks, like braided locks.

And gold sneakers. Yeah. And in the end, she's gorgeous and she learns a lesson. And these are photographs that Greg's looking at. And she. I want to tell you about that kid. She learns this lesson of humility, like you can't just go into the bear's house and eat their stuff and leave.

They're fairy tales told from the African diaspora.

Yeah.

And as you say, as you said, as I'm flipping through, like the hair, obviously called Crown is playing a really prominent role in the expression of these characters. And I haven't read the book, but I mean, it's amazing.

That kid that you were just looking at, he has vitiligo.

Oh, I see that.

So that if you don't know, what if people don't know what that is? It's a skin condition. Yeah, It's a disorder.

It's discoloration of the skin.

And this 11 year old boy named Tristan, whom I got to meet, he has what kind of appear like white stripes on his brown skin. And they had him pose shirtless and turned his beautiful natural skin into a story about how the zebra got its stripes.

Yeah.

And when I interviewed.

That's incredibly powerful.

Yeah. And when I interviewed Tristan, this boy with vitiligo, and the girl on the COVID whose name is Lyric, who posed as Ebony Black or Snow White, both of them told me about being bullied for the way they looked. And in fact, a girl at Lyric School told her her skin looked like a burnt biscuit. She was too dark. And it was another girl of color who told her that.

Wow.

And these kids talked about how being photographed this way and being seen this way by these photographers, Karin and Regis, made them feel like they mattered and that they were powerful and that they could do or be anything. And it made me think about. That's like when we talked to Tarika Barrett, who runs Girls who Code, or Tanya Van Cort, who's a woman of color in Tech, who created the Goal Setter app. And it's like representation.

Yes, yes. It means the world. And because it's not only about what you see and how others see you, but the first and most important thing that representation does is it helps you see yourself differently. Like you actually see yourself from a place of strength, you know, from a place of being worthy, because others have shown you the way. Really important stuff this Book is absolutely gorgeous, by the way.

It's so beautiful. I'll get it for you.

This is amazing.

And it reminds me, do you remember when we were talking to Houston White.

Yeah.

And he was talking about. Remind me the name of what he runs. It's his name.

Oh, The Get Down Coffee Company and Houston White Menswear.

Right. Yeah. So it's like a mini empire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It truly is. This is in north. North Minneapolis, by the way.

That's right. An amazing conversation. So such so much charisma. And he was talking about having a boardroom in the middle of a barbershop, Right?

Yeah, he does, yeah.

And how being. How seeing you there. Right. Representation in that way empowered him, gave him a vision of what he could be and who believes in him. And then choosing for him to represent himself, like, here's my place of business, here's my seat of power. It's in a barbershop and I'm leading the way.

Yes. And you know, has continued to lead the way in ways that are fearless and unapologetic and has now, as you said, gone on to build from the barbershop another whole commercial component. A coffee shop, a residential area, has a clothing line and hundreds of Target stores across the country that's doing incredibly well. So.

Oh, what are they. Does it say Black excellence? Is that what some of the shirts are?

Some of the shirts say Black excellence, but the line is Houston White for Target, Free commercial for them. But I, it, it's just so well done and incredibly important and it's, it's great product. In fact, I just wore the suit like the suit I had on last night was Houston Lights.

You looked fine and you had the whitest sneakers I've ever seen. I was like, have you ever worn those before?

I think that might have been the first time I wore them.

Those are your award winning sneakers. You went, you won the Tribunica Film Festival with that.

They will go in the trophy case.

Okay. Here's another story I've got going on. Have you ever seen. I'm handing Greg a photograph.

It's a very historic photo.

It is called the Soiling of Old Glory. Everyone needs to go look at it, look it up. It won the Pulitzer Prize in 1976. That is signed for you, Greg, by the photographer Stanley Foreman.

No way. Yeah, it's the really famous. This is during the Boston school busing protest. And it's the very famous as Faith. You described it way better than I do, but it's the white gentleman who's appears to about to gorge a black man with the American flag, with the staff from the American flag.

So I've long wanted to do a story about what happened that day with those players. And my grandfather was the assistant deputy editor of the Boston Herald who sent that photographer, Stanley Forman out that day to cover that story. So I grew up seeing that photograph on my grandparents wall in Plymouth, Massachusetts. And we moved when I was 6. So I have very vague memories. But what I remember is that the photograph disturbed me. Right. I was a kid, I didn't know the history behind it. And it's a haunting photograph.

It really is.

When the picture was taken, when it was on the front page the next day, it was called the Shot Heard Round the World, that photograph. And so decades later, my father goes on Antiques Roadshow with his signed copy of that photograph, signed by the photographer is like, what's not that he was interested in selling it, but he was like, what's this worth? Because this is an iconic American photo. And I started getting really interested in this story. So this happened in 1975 and I wanted to talk to the people in the story. So the black man in the story in that photograph is Ted Landsmark. He is in his 70s now. He that point was a black activist and civil rights lawyer in Boston. He is now a distinguished professor at Northeastern University.

Wow.

Just an icon in Boston civics. And the photographer, Stanley Foreman, also in his 70s, has the best, thickest Boston accent, the greatest guy. And so I had the honor and privilege of sitting down with both of them for CBS Sunday Morning to talk to them about that day and the legacy of that photograph. And of course, we reached out to the young man, he was 19, who is holding. He is now probably in his late 60s. He is holding the flag in that photo. And he didn't want to talk to our producer. And I think he feels weary that every time his grandkids who are growing up in Boston go into a new year, I don't know at what point in high school in Boston, but at some point someone takes this photograph out and talks about Boston history and the history of civil rights. Yeah, history of civil rights. And talking with Ted Landsmark, the man in the photograph was an astonishing sort of illumination of the grace he had. So backing up, you know, something you and I learn over and over on this podcast is that people's stories are nuanced and complicated. And in that photograph it appears that Ted Landsmark is being speared. Yes, the white man was certainly trying to hurt him, but he was actually swinging it. And the man behind Ted, who looks like he's holding him in order for him to be beaten, is actually picking him up and trying to help him get away. And something I love. I mean, it's an incredibly disturbing image. It never should have happened. But when you get to sit down and talk to people, you learn more, right?

The real story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so Ted. Get this. So Ted leaves. His nose is broken. He's being kicked and pummeled. He goes to Mass General, and he has a black doctor. And the black doctor says, after this incident. Yeah, right. Like within the hour. The black doctor says to him, I can bandage you up in a pretty nondescript way, and you can walk out of here, or I can bandage you up in a really conspicuous way. Yeah, what do you want? And Ted Landsmark, he knew image. He knew what it meant to send a message. And he knew the press would be outside the hospital.

People need to see what this is.

That's exactly what he said. When you see the photographs of the way he was bandaged, it's huge, invisible, and white tape all over his face to fix his broken nose. And he did that on purpose because he said, this happened to me, and I'm going to use this in service of something bigger.

It's the 1975. It's similar to Mamie Till and Her Courage with Emmett Till and wanting to make sure that Emmett's casket was open so the world could see what has happened to her son. And it was another spark plug for the civil rights movement was Emmett Till's murder and the same idea. It's like the world needs to see the cruelty that is taking place here, and maybe that'll spark more people to want to move towards justice and equality.

When the day after this happened, they brought the four youths who had beaten Ted Landsmark to court and the city of Boston. So this is bad luck for Boston. This was 1976. So it was the bicentennial, and there was supposed to be all this stuff in Boston, right, that summer. And the mayor was not happy about any of this. And they said to Ted Landsmark, if you. If you accept the apologies of these four teenagers, what do you want? And he said to me, I accepted their apologies because essentially what he wanted to do was leverage the systemic problems in Boston. He said to the mayor, I want more people of color. And there was tons of construction, right, Getting ready for the bicentennial. So he said to the mayor, I want more people of color in positions like overseeing construction. Yes, he he also said to me, I didn't want these four teenagers dogged for the rest of their lives because they got caught up in a moment. He said to me, it wasn't personal.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And I said to him, you accepted their apologies, but did you forgive them? And he said, no. He said, you can't forgive acts of hate. That doesn't serve anybody.

Right.

It's really interesting.

And first of all, thank you for introducing me to Ted Landsmark, because I had never heard that part of the story. And every time I saw this photo, I did always think that he's about to gouge this man with this. But Ted sounds like an absolutely amazing person, to use a word we've used a lot on the show. A man with an incredible amount of grace.

That's right. That's right. And transcendent in that moment, in service of others. Right. Because he thought, what can. I'm a civil rights activist. He actually said to me, I didn't want this to happen. Couldn't have happened to a better person. Because he knew how to use that racism.

Yes. And not channel his anger, his response, into something that actually, as we said earlier, helped us move towards better outcomes. How do we actually use these moments to make the change as opposed to just sort of lashing out? And he could have very easily done that or asked for something that was very selfish and only for himself. But he understood his responsibility was to something much bigger than himself.

And he said at the end, I said, what does the flag. What does the flag mean to you now? And he said, I wrote this down because of this one word he used. He said, I feel sorry for people who misuse this symbol of democratic access.

Wow.

Access is this word we use over and over.

Where have we heard that before?

Yeah, yeah.

Shout out to Ted Lansburg. Yeah. What a hero. What a hero.

Yeah. And such a privilege to be able to talk to him and learn. And he's so quiet and powerful. Right.

I feel him. I feel Ted already.

Okay. I have one more cool job.

I don't want to mess this up. Make sure I get it.

Okay. I'll put it back in the envelope. Okay. I now have another cool story. Are you okay with me telling these stories?

I love this.

So have you ever heard of Prep for Prep?

No.

It's a New York based organization that identifies kids. It's competitive to get in. I think it identifies kids from underserved communities, kids of color who can test to an interview to go to private schools in New York City with their tuition paid for 6th through 12th grade and then continues with access, helping them get into colleges.

Terrific.

And so a friend of mine is like on an advisory board and was kind enough to invite me to their annual dinner the other night. So for the first time ever in their 30 something years, their honoree was an alumni of prep for prep. Wow. So before that it was like J.P. morgan and Chase and Michael Bloomberg. So here's this guy, his name's Kareem Cook. And the reason I'm telling you this is because like so many, when he's telling his story, when he's doing his acceptance speech, I was like, that's what we talk about on the show. Wait, I know this story. So he begins with a huge shout out to his mom, who he said, single mother, two kids. Their next door neighbor gets murdered in Queens overnight. She moves her family somehow across the city, finds another apartment because she doesn't want whoever did the murder to come back and try to kill the witnesses. Right. This is this kid in fifth grade, Right. But the mom being valiant, moving the kid across the city, Then Central Park 5. The Central park exonerated happens. This is all in the 80s, 1980s. And he says, and my mom sat me, my brother and my three best friends down and said, as young black men, if this ever happens to you, you memorize the badge number, you memorize the plate of that car. If anyone ever pulls you aside, you come to me. He said a week later, he and his friends got pulled over by the police, weren't doing anything wrong. He listened to his mother. He said the next morning she was at the precinct talking about, you will not do this to my son and his friends. Right. So just this powerhouse behind him, making sure that he never wasted any of the opportunity he was given when he went to this, to this private school. And then he, he's, he runs this company called Nature Aid, which has been black owned since, or I guess he's the chief marketing officer. Black owned since 2012. And at some point they pivoted and directed their. It's, it's mostly like vegan, I think it's like vegan smoothies and supplements. They just, they decided to direct their efforts toward under underserved communities where there are a lot of cases of obesity, diabetes and heart disease.

Yeah.

So for him, that was black and brown communities.

Yeah.

He said he goes to. The dream is to get into Costco. That's, I guess that's everybody's dream, right? If you're selling something product in a Costco, he, he, he has some kind of partner in Grant Hill.

I know. Yeah.

You're gonna know who that is, right? My husband had to tell me. His NBA player. Right.

Fame basketball player, amazing college career at Duke. Yes. Right.

Okay. Cause this guy went to Duke. Okay. His name's Kareem Cook, by the way.

I think Kareem Cook might have played basketball. Was he on the basketball team?

I want to say, probably because he said he played basketball in high school. So they get access to the CEO of Costco, and the guy says, oh, well, I mean, we've been wanting to expand into diversity for a long time. This, this, this sounds great. Why haven't we done this before? We'll. We'll let you. He said to him, just let me start with eight stores. Let me. Let me get into eight stores. Sure. And he said, well, well, why haven't you come to me before? And the CEO, they said to the CEO, you have a bar of something like two.

Some.

A company has to have, like.

Yeah.

Is it. Does it sound right to say like 22 million, 250 million in sales to get into Costco. Does that sound right? It was something like that.

It was some huge number, some threshold that you have to demonstrate so you can make sure you keep the supply chain appropriately. Yeah, yeah. And he says to him, some threshold.

Yeah. Cause we're. We don't have. You haven't given us a chance because we don't meet that threshold.

Right.

Give us a chance. We'll meet the threshold. Right. And so again, it was about. It was the CEO of Costco to whom, by the way, he gave a huge shout out because Costco ended up donating hundreds of thousands of dollars to this prep for pro charity.

Oh, that's great.

But it was again, this notion of access. It was being seen and being chosen and being given a chance.

Given the opportunity. That is the definition of access. What's the name of the product?

It's called NatureAid, Nature Aid or Naturaud. I don't know. N A T U R A D E. Wait, here's the kicker, Greg. So then he says, as we're funding this, you should be using a black owned bank. You should be using. We should always be using black owned businesses as we grow. Grow this ecosystem.

Yeah, yeah.

And by the way, he's gone from eight Costco stores to hundreds. And he. And so he hooks him up with Lisk. And I lean over to my husband.

And I'm like, I talked to Lisk.

It's Maurice Jones.

You interviewed Maurice. That was season one yes, yes.

And wait. Lisk. Do you remember what the acronym stands for? For anyone who's listening now, I'll put you on the spot.

Local. Local institution, Support Corporation.

Ding, ding, ding. I'm just gonna say. But.

But local, I think it's Local institution, support corporation.

All. All of this one person's story, you know, from childhood to. To making a business dream come true by getting his company in Costco was just check, check, check. All the things we talk about on.

This show given being given the opportunity, having access to the CEO of Costco number one, and then given the opportunity, because that's all we can all ask for, is to have. And that's what this work is all about. All anyone can promise you is to provide an equality of opportunity. What you do with that opportunity is up to you. And it sounds like they have an amazing and superior product that once in the stores, it performed. And so the business continues to grow and they continue to get more opportunities. So congratulations to them and shout out to them. But that is absolutely the definition of what access is all about on the.

Show over all these seasons. I feel like Access was. I mean, because us banks, it's called Access Commitment. Right?

That's the program started in 2021.

And some of the things I learned, though, are what excess means. Like Natasha Reed Rice. Excess is housing.

Yes.

Right.

Yes.

Access is. It's so much more than a bank giving money to somebody.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it's. You know, I've said this so many times. I honestly, I feel like what we talk about as our purpose as an organization of powering human potential and helping individuals and families fulfill their dreams and helping communities reach their full potential and be vibrant. And that is what we do, and that is our purpose. Banking just happens to be the business and the vessel that we as an organization have chosen in order to deliver on that. But the reason U.S. bank exists is to do all of those things is to provide access to help individuals and families meet their dreams. And, like, that's what's so cool about it. And I think that's what really I hope has continued to come through for us. And that's certainly what the Access Commitment is all about.

I talked, I mentioned before how much I continue to learn. And I was thinking about. I was thinking about moments like, do you remember when the WNBA commissioner, Kathy. Kathy Engelbert was telling us her moments of learning, too? For example, that story About August of 2020 when Jacob Blake was killed and she had four games she wanted the WNBA to play that Night.

Yeah.

And she went into the bubble and was like, we're gonna do this. And one of the players said to her, kathy, no, I have a six year old son.

Yeah, I can't do that. Yeah.

And Kathy had that moment where she was vulnerable enough on the show to talk about how.

How.

How she learned.

Yeah, I had that recent. You know, somebody asked me recently, I do remember that story vividly and not as dramatic, but something I was asked the other day to talk about a moment, a moment I remember most about pride in Pride month. And I said, you know, it actually just happened to me a couple of weeks ago where I use the wrong pronouns for someone and. And the person was graceful enough. Well, first of all, the minute I said it, I realized it, and I let the conversation because there were a few other people that were part of the conversation. I pulled the person aside afterwards and I said, hey, did I just use the wrong pronouns for you? And they said, yes. I said, well, please tell me what they are and please forgive me. And we just had this lovely conversation that was filled with grace and compassion and empathy and all of that. And I just like those moments happen. And, you know, to the point you made about Kathy, like, sometimes we're gonna. We're not always gonna do the right thing. We're not always gonna make the right decision. We're not always gonna say the right thing. And you and I talk about that a lot. But we have to give each other grace, and that only happens when there's an element of trust that happens between people, and we have to just continue to do more in all of our efforts to build those bridges.

I feel like over and over, you give me such good natured grace to learn stuff as a white lady. Well, thanks. What have you learned?

So many things. I just. Your natural curiosity, it's made me more curious. People think, because I'm the Chief Diversity officer, I have all of these answers to all of this stuff and that I know everything about it. But no, like, I'm always learning. Like I said, I use the wrong pronouns for somebody, for God's sakes. You know, so your curiosity, your. Your interest in preparation and the way that you approach these conversations, I've learned a lot about that. It's made me. It's made me better.

Oh, thank you. I really appreciate it. I think about the conversation with you and Houston White, when both of y' all taught me, I can't remember who explained it, but taught me about why the barbershop is such a special. I mean, I know There are movies called Barbershop. Right. But I didn't get.

But why?

Right, but why? And I think it was also with Houston, a conversation about style and steez and what it meant. Like, but you connected it with dignity and status. Yeah, right.

Yeah. Yeah.

And I had never thought about why the sneakers should be so clean or the hair should be so tight or what barbershops meant.

Yeah.

And. And to sort of. I just, I guess I just want to say I'm grateful for that. You know, I don't mean to sound like a, like a, you know, white anthropologist, but, but like it's all. When you, when you just have the space and the permission, I guess is what I'm saying. Right. These conversations or this permission for me to be curious in a way where I don't feel like I, I will be looked at with skepticism or eye rolls.

Oh, well, thank you for saying that. And I, you know, I've always felt that I don't have an expectation or we shouldn't have expectations on each of each other that we always understand, but we should have an expectation that you want to.

Yeah.

Does that make sense?

Yeah. And the people who are willing to help you understand because sometimes you can get weary.

Yeah.

People can get weary of explaining this is how it feels for us and this is how it works.

Yeah, no, that's very true.

That's generosity. To be willing to explain to the people who are curious.

Yeah. I've always felt like no matter how weary that I. And we, we've talked about this on the show. I talked about the easy burden, Andrew. Yeah, easy burden, like, compared to the sacrifice that others had to make. Like, I don't want to hear that you're tired. Like, yeah, we're all tired. Yes, I get tired. But you. I'm not, you're not going to hear me on here talking about, oh my God, I'm so tired, I'm so weary. Like, do you realize, like, what the people who did the work to allow me to sit here went through? Like, this is an easy burden for me.

Like, that's what, that's what Jay Bailey said. So he runs Rice.

The Rice, which is Russell.

Innovation.

Russell Innovation center for Entrepreneurships. Thank you. You got it in Atlanta.

And he talks about how Mr. Russell.

Yeah. Herman Russell. Herman J. Russell in the 60s, I think, 60s. One of the first, certainly for a period of time. Herman Russell Construction was the largest black owned business in this country for like a really, really long time. And you know, one of the first black millionaire philanthropists. Just an icon in the black community and just a pillar in our community on the business side.

And he endows the Russell Center Rice. And now it's the big. Literally, like in terms of space. The biggest space for black entrepreneurs on earth.

The largest incubator for black entrepreneurship in the world.

And he is the one who gave that beautiful quotation of folks who are planting seeds to grow trees under whose shade we will not sit.

Yes.

And I remember in that conversation that's when you talked about Easy Burden and Andrew Young.

Yeah, yeah. I'm so proud of Jay and that work and. But that. That's truly how I feel about it.

Jay was the person who said, I'll never forget it. He said, you're talking about race. You can throw in class for free. Yes, I've thought about that so many times.

Yeah, he had some. He had some real.

Yeah, he still owes us some boxes of chips. Do you remember that he was talking about. Yeah, yeah, we're gonna. Chips two seasons ago. Follow up on that.

I am going to follow up with him on that.

Do you have. Do you have the stamina for one more kind of topic? Okay, so here's something I've been wanting to ask you about for a long time because when I hear people talk about this and then I recently read this article that was in the Atlantic. What is the title of it? It's worth saying the title. Where is it? Okay. It's this article by the writer Connor Friedersdorf called the DEI Industry Needs to Check Its Privilege subtitle the Worst of the Industry is Expensive and Runs From Useless to Counterproductive. It's a very nuanced article. I found it very interesting. And so what he's talking about, it's not the kind of commitment that US bank does. It doesn't sound to me like the kind of work you do. He talks about this multi billion dollar industry that popped up in that kind of never again fervor after George Floyd was murdered. And he suggests that the billions of dollars that corporate America has spent to train. I'm using air quotes its employees in whatever diversity training means or sensitivity training. He says. I think he don't just think it's right here. He uses the word obscene to say it is obscene when that money would probably be better spent helping poor people.

Yeah.

And so as. As the chief diversity officer of U.S. bank.

Yeah. I love this.

What. What are these training programs like? What do you think of them? What are they doing wrong? Because I will tell you that as a parent at one of my children's schools in, in 2020, 2021 and 2022, they had, they created a program that is mandatory anti racist parental training.

Mandatory anti racist parent training.

Yep. And for the first two years of it, it was entirely on zoom and they said that we had to have our cameras on. So you just see hundreds of people coming in on zoom. And this is New York City. So I'm scrolling through and I'm like, there's a famous, like how many Emmys are in the back of that famous person? Like, I'm sorry, but I am going to scroll through and be like, like, who's on this with me? Just human.

Of course. Of course. And that sounds really.

So this is the thing, mandatory compliance. What are the talk to me about your thought about these kind of programs? Because it's not what you're doing.

I do feel that first of all, I've never even as the chief diversity officer, like nobody wants to go to a diversity training. Like I'm talking.

There were slideshows about microaggressions.

Yeah, like nobody wants to do that. Like it's. I think the way that we've approached it, certainly with our employees is to invite people into conversations to come learn with me is to come learn with us. Like, that's a very different invitation than than saying you've got to attend diversity training. Now that's not to suggest we don't have as part of our orientation, as part of our core curriculum, we do have mandatory diversity trainings. Unconscious bias, cultural identity, things that we think are basic knowledge, skill sets that any leader coming into the bank should come because it's one of our core values. We draw strength from diversity. What I love about that is the phrase itself would suggest this is one of our signature strengths as an organization. We need to make sure that everybody understands that and has a sense of how important this is to us as an organization. So you're going to take these two mandatory courses. Beyond that though, I think the conversations of diversity have to be tied to what do we expect of leaders in this organization. And what we expect from leaders of this organization is that they will lead high performing, diverse teams that help meet the needs of our customers in the communities where we live, work and play. And therefore we have expectations around inclusion that are tied to performance reviews. And so just like financial performance, you actually have to have people leader goals that are tied to creating an inclusive environment. Because it's not just what you do, it's how you go about performing your job that separates the good leaders from the Bad leaders that separates leaders who underperform from leaders that, that perform. And we know that leaders that outperform everybody else have an inclusive mindset. They have inclusive teams, they have women in leadership, they have people of color in leadership. Those are the leaders who perform the best. But if you can't measure that and if you can't set that as an expectation, that actually is in the system where people actually have to put their people leader goals in. They actually have goals, have to have goals around inclusion in the organization. So I think it's more about how do you make it part of an expectation around the business outcomes we're trying to achieve versus making it some sort of compliance mandatory. Take this anti racist course because like who are we to dictate what you should think about now? There's nobody that's going to argue racism is bad. Like that's not what the, I think the debate is about. But it's what do you truly believe as an organization that leadership looks like and how you want your organizational culture to be. An organizational culture where everybody can be at their best requires that there be some sort of expectation for leaders. And I think that's more than training. I think there's a level of accountability that has to come with that that's connected to how you evaluate how you reward leadership and performance in your organization.

And it's also, at least from what I've learned about the work you do and y' all do, the bank as a whole, it's not just within the organization. It's about demonstrating this is what we value. And here's where we, yeah, here's where we commit with access, with funds, with mentorship.

Yes.

It's outside. Like it's truly. It's putting the money, it's putting your money where your mouth is.

It is. And it's serving all of your stakeholders. It's not only you know, how you want your employees, your employee and your workforce to look, but it's also how you want to serve a diverse marketplace. It's these, the markets and the customers that we serve demand it. Like they demand that there be representation. They demand that the products and services that you provide meet their needs and meet their needs from their lived experience and that you see them and you understand them and that requires for you to have a diverse workforce. That's why you want diversity, is because they're just serving a diverse market. So there's no separation between what this work of DEI is or should be and how it's connected to the actual business goals. Like, that's where I think the industry as a whole has fallen short, is it became strictly this exercise in human capital management. And we've lost sight of the fact that this is about how we serve customers, how we serve communities, and most importantly, how we serve employees.

In that equation, do people ever dare to. When they find out your title or what you do, do they dare to. To challenge and say, oh, that diversity stuff?

Oh, every day.

Really?

Oh, every day. Like, I've. I've. I've gotten notes, you know, mostly anonymously and in some ways, but, you know, I've gotten notes from people, you know, you're ruining the company. Like, this is not the, you know, the company that I joined 30 years ago. And, you know. Yeah.

Wow.

Yeah. Do you respond not to stuff like that? Like that? Like, I don't, you know, I don't live my. Live my life in the comment section.

Yeah.

You know. Yeah, I don't read. I don't do the comments like, I do. I just don't. But I have. I'll tell you what, where I've. Where I have found the most rewarding part of my work is actually having those conversations with people who do disagree with me. Like, who. Just who. Who come into it with a lot of skepticism about who this DEI work is for. And, you know, is it really for me? I don't see myself in the work.

And I. I don't have unconscious bias. That's a good line.

Yeah, that one. I don't see color.

Right.

Like, that one, like, you know, having. I've had so many conversations with some of those people, and I've always found those conversations to be incredibly rewarding. And in the process, I think we both have learned a lot. And people have said to me afterwards, I see this completely differently after having talked to you, I really feel so much better. And the fact that you took the time to call me after I sent you that email, I see it differently. And I'm gonna be more open about this and I'm gonna think differently about it, and that's where I get the most reward, is in those conversations. And honestly, I learned something in that process too.

That's Grace as well.

Yeah. You have to do this job.

I have a white kid, and there's a program at his school that invites any children who identify as people of color. So that includes anyone who's non white to join. And it started when he was like, seven, and he came to me and he said, mom, all these boys get to leave and go have pizza and play Games in the middle of the day. And they're part of, I think the group's called jama. And he said, I don't wanna, I'm not complaining. It's just nobody explained it to us. And in fact one of the kids he saw leave the room who identifies as a person of color, my son thought was white. And it turns out I think the kid's grandfather is Egyptian. Okay, wow, fine, like anybody can go. And we even said to our son, like some people, some, maybe you're Jewish, right? My husband's Jewish, like whatever, if you want to go. But it wasn't explained to kids and that would be. And I went to the DEI officer and I was like, I'm not complaining. Like my kids have black cousins. They get that the world can treat people differently. They get, they don't have the lived experience of someone else. Wouldn't it be interesting to have a conversation with all the school to say this is the invitation to anyone who wants to take it? And this is why sometimes certain students who identify a certain way go into a different space. And I said, I don't need to script you, you know it better than I. Right, but shouldn't it start with a conversation that includes everybody 100%? Because I didn't want to tell my, at that point, white 7 year old, like, well, you can't, like it's racist to question why they're going out to have, he's a kid, he just sees his friends, they don't have to do math. They get to have pizza and play games because the grandfather's Egyptian. Right, but the point is what you just said, responding to the emails, having just an open conversation that comes from.

Curiosity and actually it's cool. And I find it really refreshing when people disagree or question or skeptical about what this is because it does open the door for dialogue and that's how we'll get to progress. I would much rather have that. I don't know if I ever told you the story when I first took this job, really quick story, when I first took this job, I, I was doing this little roadshow and you know, talking to new made. I had my bright new shiny DEI strategy, I had my little PowerPoint decks and I would go around and talk to like various teams across the organization. I had this one team asked me to come and speak and it was a smaller group, it was a smaller team, it was like, you know, less than 20 people. And I remember I'm doing the DEI presentation and there's this one, you know, middle Aged white man in the back of the room, you know, with his arms crossed. And you could just tell the whole time, like, he was just not feeling.

Not having it.

No, he's not feeling it right. And, like, I could sense it the whole time. And finally when I was done, you know, he mustered the courage to sort of raise his hand and say, you know, hey, I just have a question. Like, when. When will we have a white male employee resource group? And I remember in that moment, like, the whole room just sort of gasped. Like, I can't believe. You know, whatever. I can't remember.

The gentleman said, you said it.

Yeah.

Now I'm dying to know what you said.

Like, did he really just do that? And I said, well, you know, I. I just shared with you a whole bunch of data about the makeup of the organization and where I believe we have disparities in representation. And from what I can see in the data. But you tell me if you see something differently. We don't have a problem with representation of white males at any level of this organization. And so I'd love to know, like, what you feel is different about your experience that might need me to consider. Why would we need to do that when there's no shortage of representation in the organization? And quite honestly, my actions going forward will be driven by letting the data help inform where we make the changes. And until I see data that suggests that there's something about a lack of white representation, I don't feel like we would need to do that. And he just kind of sat back, and from that point forward, like, I would see him every now and then in the hallway or just walking somewhere, and he would always just acknowledge me, like. And he would, like, purposefully. I could tell he felt seen and heard in the moment, like, whether he liked the response or not, like, he felt safe enough, which was the other part of my response. I said, first of all, I just want to applaud you because I think it's an important question. And the fact that you felt safe enough to ask. Ask that question, you know, what I want you to understand is the safety that you felt in that. Answering that question is what most people of color and women don't feel like. That's the privilege that wants you to sit with that for a minute. And from that point on, he kind of, like, he just would go out of his way to sort of come up to me and say, yeah, like, I. I learned something in that moment, and thanks for giving me, you know, the respect in the way that you answered the Question, too. So that was just sort of a cool moment for me. Like, I always enjoy those challenges because there are opportunities for me to educate, but also in the process, learn something about myself as well.

You just used the word privilege. And one of the other things I've learned on this show, people define privilege lots of different ways, but I think a theme that comes up is privilege is when you can fail and have a second chance.

Yeah.

And so many people we have talked to have said a lot of times it's, I'm the black person or I'm the black woman. I can't fail. Like, the responsibility and the burden of that. Right. That was one of the things we talked to Jay Bailey about. Cause he talks about the power to fly and the power to fail and vulnerability.

Yeah. Who else did that come out with? That came out a lot, I think, with I can't remember the season or where it was, but we talked about that also as part of the burden. Like, if you're the only one, you feel uniquely responsible, that you must, not only must you succeed, but you must.

Do it for everybody.

For everybody. Because if you fail, there won't be another one who gets that opportunity because they'll go, see, I told you they weren't qualified. I told you that she wasn't ready for that job.

They got that job because they only.

Got the job because. So we can't hire another person in that role. And so it's a heavy burden to carry, but it's one that you just sort of accept comes with it.

What are you excited about for the season?

I'm excited about the translator documentary that's me snapping. I'm excited about this story of translators. I'm excited about the work we're going to do in Hispanic community this year. I'm excited to talk to Jorge from the OH Smithsonian, the Smithsonian Museum of Latin American. And I'm excited about the Latino Leadership Institute. And talking with Joelle Claudia.

Claudia Ramos Edelman from We Are All Human.

Claudia is going to be really fun. Claudia is the queen of data. So she's going to spend a lot of time just talking about and telling the story through data. So she's just an incredible, incredible leader.

We have Eric Toda.

Eric Toda from Meta will be incredibly exciting to talk about the world of technology and how being an executive in that space and being an executive of color and how do you show up in that world and some of the stereotypes that go along with that. So Eric will be great to talk to, but we've got A great lineup this year. We've got a great mix of folks, some still to be announced, but this notion of leaning into some of these other cultures who make up this beautiful. As I talk about a lot, this beautiful quilt that I think we're weaving together, not only in our work, but the. This beautiful quilt that is our country. And I think through this show and through this podcast, I think we are weaving this beautiful tapestry, this story that we're telling. If you listen to all of the seasons and all of the work, you see this beautiful tapestry coming together.

It's amazing that we never stop learning. I get excited for every single person we're going to talk to.

Me, too. Me too.

And as this show has evolved, our friendship is like such a gift to me.

That's been such a bonus to me, getting to know you and your spirit and you're just pure joy. And you just make this so much fun for me and I hope for everybody who listens and for our organization. You've just been such a amazing friend, an amazing partner. But, gosh, I feel like, you know, I feel like we've known each other for forever. I know, but it's been an honor. It has been an honor and a joy just to do this with you every single time. So thank you.

Thank you, Greg. That's how I feel. It's a gift. And thank you for your grace. And my husband told me before I came here today, make sure you give Greg a hug from me. So you get hugs from.

From all of us, the whole fam. Right back at you guys. Yeah. Thank.

You.

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