MBA2521 Extended Interview: Andy Morgan – Creating a Highly Successful Niche Business

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Awesome to see you, man. And to have you on the show.

It's nice to have you in my house.

Yes.

Thank you for coming. Thanks for inviting me up.

Well, any excuse to come to Japan. I mean, Japan's beautiful. And you've been here for nearly 20 years.

Yeah, man, it's been.

I'm now in my 19th year in Japan.

Originally, of course, I came for a year. That's how it typically works.

And we're now on 18 and a half, so.

Yeah, we have that in common. You and I both, from a young age, decided to move abroad. For me, I went to Dubai for a decade, same as you. I went to teach English and started my professional career abroad. And we'll talk about some of the benefits of that and how that informs our business later on. But tell me about what motivated you to leave Birmingham and to make such a huge leap. I always say Japan is like the closest thing to go to another planet.

Well, yeah. Have you seen Peaky Blinders?

Yeah.

Yeah. So you understand Birmingham's a bit of a rough place, so I needed to get out of there. No, just jokes aside. Actually, that's kind of true. Okay. So when I was coming up to graduate. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I'd studied banking, economics, and finance, and I quote, unquote, knew that I was supposed to get a job in the big four accountancy firms at the time. And I remember I'd just come back from three months of traveling around, backpacking around Southeast Asia. And so I'm now in my final year of university and everyone's applying for jobs. I'm going through the PricewaterhouseCoopers online application form, and it crashed on me a second time. Because, you know, the incident.

This is 2005, right?

And it's because I took too long trying to answer this one question is, why do you want to work here? And I didn't have an answer because I didn't. I didn't know.

You're just kind of going through the motions. This is what you're supposed to do.

Exactly right. Because I was doing economics, banking, and finance at university because when I was 16, someone put a piece of paper in front of me and said, okay, now choose your university course, I. E. Choose your life, right? And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I mean, who does when they're 16? But I was good at math. I was all right of physics. I enjoyed economics. Turned out I wasn't very good at it, but hey. And so I thought, okay, well, economics, but how about economics with a bit of other stuff, more mathy stuff. So economics, banking, and finance was a degree offered, so I decided to go for that. But it comes up to graduation. I knew that that wasn't something I was interested in. Or rather, the sweet. The small amount of options that have been presented to me did not seem appealing. Karate was a hobby. And so I thought, you know what? I've traveled around Asia. I'd spent three months in India the year before that doing volunteer work. And that was amazing. And I thought, you know what? Asia's interesting. Karate is a hobby. Why not go to Japan, teach English for a year, do karate, and then I'll come home and I worry about getting a quote, unquote, real job.

Then I love that this kind of path, because this is a common thread I see with a lot of entrepreneurs where they expand their surface area so luck and opportunities can happen. And it's very hard if you just stay in your same town all your life for that to happen. And just merely by just saying, hey, let me go somewhere else, let me try something else, and go there and try a different path than what I'm set out to do you have a chance to kind of explore new things? And obviously you expanded beyond teaching English and learning karate. But I want to talk about the karate a little bit. You shared a story with me one time in dinner why you got into karate. Can you share that story?

So that was kind of harking back to my comment about the Peaky Blinders.

I was unlucky. So the place where I went to school is a place called Aston in Birmingham, in a city area. It was a selective school. It was a grammar school. That means if you take the exam and you were in the top 96 students who took the exam that year, this is when you're 11 years old, then you get to enter that school. And I was one of those people. But it was in a rough area now. It wasn't a rough area 120 years before when it opened, but it was now rough area. So I was used to watching my back, getting from the bus to the school gates and back to the bus. Right. But I wasn't used to it in my hometown, certain Coldfield, which was a bit nicer, a little bit more afferent. And I was about 15. I was with five other friends. We are three guys, three girls. The 107 bus. I'm getting specific here because anyone who knows the area will know this bus.

They'll know the areas I'm talking about.

And they'll probably have a smile on their face. The 107 bus comes around the corner, and I know exactly where that comes from and what areas that serves. And there's a gang of kids that pile off for the bus, and they're about the same age.

Yeah. How old are you at this time?

I'm about 15.

Okay.

They pile off the bus. One of them kicks out the back window of the top of the upper deck and jumps out of it. And so I turn around to my friend Matt and I'm like, matt, it's gonna be okay. Just don't look over. We're fine. Ignore them. He immediately looks over, which obviously invites the what the are you looking at? Comment.

And then it just escalates from there.

Basically, they just wanted to fight. They were drugged up or drunk up, and they were looking to cause a rampage. Any up with a glass bottle around my head, which you know, is fine. There's no major damage caused physically, but it left me with a great deal of shame because I ran away from my friends and I left them. Thankfully, they were fine. Pete got a bottle around the head as well and needed stitches as well. But, you know, the girls were fine, guys, we're all fine. But it left me with a great deal of shame. And I thought, never again. And I was invited to karate by my piano teacher at the time. And I started going to K, and then I started going to the gym about a year after that when I'd got a job at Tesco Supermarket at the time. And then I could afford a gym membership. And the strategy behind that was look like less of an easy target by not being. Because I'm six two, six three. By not being so skinny so that I look like such easy pickings, really, because I was just a bobbing chin waiting to be punched. For certain people, you know, you're using the.

The old club strategy. Remember the club they used to put on the wheel of the car so people don't steal it? We had that in the States. Basically it was like this metal bar. You go on the wheel. And basically the idea was, that's too much work. I'll go to another car. The thief would just go to another car that didn't have the club.

Right, right, right.

So you basically clubbed up. You just made sure.

Okay.

I'm, you know, just not an easy target. It's interesting that you mentioned this and. Because obviously this is your life, you know, you're in the fitness industry. Your whole business is about getting.

It shook me up, man.

Yeah.

I'll tell you. Right. Right now I've had an adrenaline dump because it's taking me back to that moment. And that shame that, that, that's real.

Totally.

I still feel that, and I felt it for years. And I tell you, that's one thing that's nice about Japan. You don't have to watch your back.

Yeah. Almost a false sense of security here, you know?

Yeah.

Where it's hard to kind of travel outside of here. Yeah. I mean, it's tough to be in an area where you feel like you can't just be safe all the time. But in a way, I do feel those hardships has helped you along the way. Because sometimes when you go through that hard, it's like, okay, I've been through that. I can get through other things. I always say that. You know, one of the things I love about business is that you're. You're guaranteed to fail at something. Right. And that's really. It just, it's. It's a way to build a muscle. As you know, in fitness, it's like the only you can build the muscles is that you test it and you push it and if you don't, if you're not pushed, we can all be comfortable and sit in our homes and get cozy jobs. But that's what I love about the journey of entrepreneurship. And that kind of leads me to where I want to go next, is like, okay, you go to Japan and you're teaching English. How long was the English part of your career?

I was doing it for six years.

Six years.

I was originally at a private language school. It was called Nova, and that was great, but it was in the evenings because that's when people had time to do English lessons. But I wanted my evenings back to train. So I found a job at high school. I got a contract eventually with the Osaka Board of Education, and I worked at high schools for five years. And that was. That was fun. That was great. That gave me lots of time between lessons and outside of school to train. I got into aikido. I joked that I was trying to turn myself into Jason Bourne.

Yeah, I can see that.

And it was fun.

It was good times. It also gave me time to learn Japanese as well. But it wasn't scratching this entrepreneurial itch that I always had. But I didn't have that fancy word for but. I'd always had it since I was a kid. Like, even at elementary school or primary school, we'd say in the uk, I had a bit of that.

That entrepreneurial kind of streak in me.

Did you have any influences in your life, like an uncle or an aunt or somebody who kind of showed you, oh, this is possible, you know, My.

Dad had his own business. It was what most people would think of as a corner shop, although it wasn't on a corner, it was in a row of shops. It was a small video rental store and wines and spirits and beers store.

Yeah.

And we'll call that an off license in the uk. So he was running his own business. It's not that my dad taught me about business, but that was clearly an option.

Yeah, that's actually a big thing. A lot of people, they don't see that as an option. Most of their, you know, family has a job or a career and a career path. And at least you saw, like, the ups and downs of business. Yeah, my dad was in sales, so I always say, like, you know, one summer we're having, you know, a holiday in Disney World, the next summer it's a backyard.

It's funny you say that.

Yeah.

We had one foreign holiday as a family and it was when I was 8 years old and it was to Disney World, and that was amazing. I still remember that holiday, man.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that's good that you actually had some exposure. So you were teaching English in Japan. Did you start to build your business on the side? Was it fitness at first or was it something else?

Yeah. Decided to build my business on the side. Or rather a year before I went independent from teaching English, about a year and a half before, I said to myself, I want to have my own business. I am going to figure this out. So this would have been 2010, and I think someone had just slipped a copy of what book do you think I'm gonna say?

Rich dad, Poor Dad?

No, no, no, no.

Influence and influence people.

There's a certain number of hours in a week.

Oh, four Hour work week.

Four hour work week, yeah. Someone slipped a copy of the Four Hour Work Week into my hand.

And so I had that. And I think I took Ramit's 1K.

Yeah, of course. On the side, or whatever it was called.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And either that or I was exposed to his writing online. And this brought me into this world of, I don't know, create a business on the Internet.

It's very early 2010, I remember, and there's not a lot out there.

No, no, no.

It was like, you know, it's good that you found Remy because Remy was like the 1%. The rest of the 99% were what we would call Internet marketers, scammers, schwarmer, shawarmy people. Like, you know, and. Yeah, it's interesting that you go back there and I'm thinking, oh, my God, there were so many different kinds of Internet business kind of things that we at the time didn't understand how to filter. But I think today there's a plethora of knowledge. So that's great.

I do feel lucky for the people that I found early on, because I do now, through the path of experience, I can pick out the scammy people, but without that, I wouldn't know. It's like through my experience in the fitness industry, I can pick out very easily the charlatans. But if you're not in the industry, it's very hard to know.

We had this conversation where I was like, oh, I didn't have no idea. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah.

So I had read that book. I had either read an article or taken Ramit's course, and I was like, okay, step one, list up different businesses. Of course it's not going to be a T shirt business, but what about baby clothes in Japan? Custom built, right. For people to have their whatever they want. Right. Or different things. List it up, list it up. List it up, list it up. One of those things that. And this. I was trying to do it with a friend, Chris, who lived in Osaka. We used to go for a jog a few times a week. He wasn't that serious about it. He wasn't following through on a few things. One of the items on my list was become a personal trainer, but market myself as higher end. Because I can speak English, I have access to better information than the average Japanese person. That's because of the language barrier and the information gap that exists in Japan because of that. Because the language of science is in English, of course. So there's a. There's an information gap here and certainly was even greater at the time. So I thought I could, you know, combine, okay, English language, personal training lessons from someone who really knows their stuff. And I thought, okay, that's something I can go with. And then I started. I thought to myself, okay, well, I've been exposed to the idea of the Internet, right. And that we could have a business through the Internet. So I thought, well, I can have a WordPress website and that can be my online business card. Right, right. Why would I want to have my face on a wall in a gym?

Yeah.

And people are just looking.

It still exists, by the way. Yeah, this still happens.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And I get it, right? You're a personal trainer in a gym and it's a great way to get experience. And I'm not knocking these people at all. However, I'm not gonna stand out from the other people on the wall if I don't have something else where they can get deeper access to my stuff. Going to be one of those cards on a wall in a gym. Then how about I have at least a website link so that people can read, people can get to know me, you can see what I'm about, and then maybe they can consider hiring me. And I work with a few people in person. But I very soon had an inquiry. Andy, do you do online coaching?

Right.

And yeah, things just went from there.

That was like, I do now.

It was. So the guy was called Phil. He was from San Francisco, you know, God bless the Bay Area people because they're, you know, straight on things. And he said the comments on one of my articles, okay, so my strategy was there's a language barrier in the. Because of the language barrier, there's an information gap. How can I help address this and also make myself stand out as a good personal trainer or someone who knows what they're doing. So I'm going to take articles from English, have them translated into Japanese. But I wanted to make summaries of quite complicated articles topics. So I did that in English. I then had them translated into Japanese and I would put them on my WordPress blog that was in two languages. It looked absolutely horrible. If you want to go to the Wayback Machine, I think if you type in Wayback Machine, type in rippedbody jp it was JP at the time. And then have a look. I think the first one is July 2011 and see what it looks like. It's an absolute joke. However, a fellow called Phil from San Francisco, he said, andy, love your content. Do you do online coaching? And I was like, phil, may I send you an email about this? And he's like, yeah, absolutely. I send him an email. Phil, my 12 week package is $899, includes this, this, this, this and this. What do you say? And it's like, great. How do I pay? So now I'm googling how to pay.

I'm like, oh, how do I charge this guy?

How do I pay? Right.

How to get money in Japan from America? Because that was not a simple thing, right?

Yes.

So you have to go your average Japanese.

This is before stripe. This is for PayPal.

So PayPal was there and PayPal is what it did.

Yeah, I created a.

And he paid me there. And so that was the start. And then I talked about on the blog how I was working with Phil and how I was helping him out. And then I created a coaching page. I think it was consultations. I called it at that time and I said, okay, this is an offer, this is what I do. And then people would apply and I just kept on writing articles. And I was writing articles at that time in a niche. I was writing about Martin Birkin's Lean Gain. Okay. People wanted more information about that. I was very interested in that. This was basically breakfast skipping, plus the idea of lifting heavy just a few times a week to failure. Reverse pyramid training it was called. So I was writing simplified articles based on that with Martin's permission. And people ended up coming to me for coaching. And I was clear, you know, I can't, I can't do what Martin does. People still wanted that. And then, you know, I've kind of grown in to be my own man. But it was very much I chased down a niche and that's what led to the business.

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I also want to credit a book. It's called Trust Agents by Julian Smith and Chris Brogan. I don't know if you've heard of that.

Yeah, yeah. Chris Brogan, OG Amazing human being. Yeah.

Okay.

And I've learned so much about how to be humble in the face of all the success that he's had. And one of my favorite stories of Chris Brogan is, you know, we're at this big conference and he's speaking on stage, and then after he gets off stage, people rushing to kind of talk to him and ask questions. And he answered every single question, super patient, even though I know he's exhausted coming from his flight and he's on stage for the last 90 minutes and all that kind of stuff. But he stood out because the other speakers would speak goodbye, leave, wouldn't go to the dinners, wouldn't hang out with the attendees. But in that moment, I didn't go to ask him anything or take a picture or anything like that. I was just watching from afar and realizing, this guy knows that these people that are asking him questions and wanting selfies, these people pay his bills, these people follow his content, you know, watch his videos. And he just was incredibly humble, despite the fact, you know, he's a Wall Street Journal bestseller and amazing success. And I got to spend some time with him at a. It was actually a podcasting cruise conference. So we're in a cruise, we're trapped in a boat, and you can't get away. Yeah. For six days. But I got to know him and I was just like, you're the real, like, you are that good of a person. And. Yeah. So shout out to Chris Brogan. Amazing guy. Yeah.

That book, in a nutshell for me, was the idea of creating in your content this one of us feeling and what they mean by that. The way I took it is, I'm no better than you, Omar. I've just got a little more experience in this area of nutrition and training. I've been through a lot of the pitfalls that you may have already fallen into or maybe about to fall into. Let me help you. Let me help you, not your teacher. You don't have to call me sensei. Just let me help you.

A few steps ahead of you.

Yeah. And I'm also. I'm part of the community. And so that really resonated with me. And I tried to take this approach to my writing because the other influences I had at the time, they tended to write. And it was writing back then, but I tended to write in a bit of a condescending way to people and I didn't like that. I did catch myself getting that way certain times, and I'm glad I did, but it just didn't feel right to me because it's not congruent with my personality generally.

So I want to get back to the website in a moment. But before, because I'm a sales page, sales copy junkie. And my first impressions when I saw your website, but before we jump into that, you are building your business on the side while you're teaching. Are you putting nights and weekends. How long was that transition? What was that? What did that look like?

Sure. Website was just a WordPress.com site at the start. That started, I believe, in May. I went over to WordPress.org so I could have my own domain and do some more customizations in June or July. I think it was July when I had the J.P. i'd bought that. And then I had my first customer that August. Or it might have been the end of that July.

Still on a job at this point.

I'm still. Yeah, I'm still teaching that. My contract is April to April. That's the Japanese school year. So I've got Phil, that's $800. That was probably that July. I then started talking about it. I think I made maybe $3,000 in August. Then maybe it was this is going to be thereabouts. So maybe $3,000 that August. Then September, I think it was something like $12,000. Then October it was $8,000. And I was like, ah, here we go.

All right.

So, you know, it was nice while it lasted, right? Then November it was something like $19,000. December, maybe 24.

And then that January surpassing your salary.

Yes. Oh, yes. Because I was earning, I think, $2,000. Yeah, that's it. In my English teaching salary, 2,500, depending on the exchange rate at the time. And then that January it was, I think, 35 grand.

Okay.

And I was working all the hours because I was like, oh my God.

Yeah.

And a friend said to me, andy, this is Disneyland. You do right by what is in your heart and you treat people well. But like make hay while the sun shines, brother, because you don't know how long this is going to carry on. He didn't say brother because he's Scottish. But you know, I'm adjusting. I'm influenced by my American audience here. And yeah, I just worked hard since then. It got to a point where it was end of January and now I had a decision to make. Am I going to recontract with to school or am I going to dive in? And I decided to dive in.

Okay.

And I was thinking of quitting my job. This is before I had a business completely before. And just diving in with two feet. That was in April.

Yeah.

And the teacher who sat opposite me, he said to me, andy, how about you've got lots of time? How about you just get your business going first and then you quit?

Very Japanese conservative.

But that was great advice. And the reason that he said that is because that way you won't feel pressured to do something that you perhaps don't want to necessarily do or it's not working. Yeah. And that also allowed me to do things that allowed me to operate from a place that I thought from a non scammy place.

Totally. I'm a big believer in being financially comfortable as much as possible when you're making business decisions because being desperate is a very bad place to be where you're trying to pay rent and you might cut some corners where you normally wouldn't. What I mean cut by corners is maybe appeal or sell products that you wouldn't normally because you know, you need to survive.

Yeah.

So that's definitely a good move.

I want to just dig in on that a little bit. There's a friend of mine, Greg Knuckles, he runs a fantastic website called strongerbyscience.com he said to me, this is probably 2015. He said, Andy, it's all very well, you feeling good? He wasn't this harsh about it. He's never mean or pointy in his thoughts. But he said, look, it's easy to have the moral high ground when you're not worried about how you're going to feed your family next month.

Totally.

Right. And that made me think and it kind of took me down a peg and just made me. A lot of my brand is about fighting against the BS in the industry. Right. And feeling a real sense of rage at people that push all these pills and potions that people don't need. I just find it really frustrating. I still do to this day. But it gave me another way of, another perspective on this that was valuable.

I'll be honest with you. I went through a period early on when I was a full time entrepreneur. Nicole and I were in New York. It was rough. It was very rough. Luckily we didn't sell things we don't believe in or do it. But because we kind of stood our ground and said, no, just keep the course. Let's continue to do gig work, freelance work until, you know, the $100 took off and all that kind of stuff. But I would never want to go back to that stage because it's really tough. Because every decision you make is really difficult. It's not an easy like yes or no or like, of course I'm not gonna do that because this is my brand or this is, this is what I believe in. When you have, you know, more month than what you have money left over, it's kind of tough. You know, it's like, oh, you know, maybe I need to even forget about sell weird things on the Internet. But maybe I should take a part time job. Maybe I should, you know, take a part time break from this dream of mine so I can pay the bills. Luckily, we were just a little bit away from that and we're able to kind of hang in there and make it happen. And today we're much happier that we stuck to our guns. But I really empathize with people that do take that leap. That's why we always talk about, you know, like you said, side hustling a little bit, get some traction. A lot of people feel like, well, I believe in my idea, I believe in myself. I want to bet on myself. It can't fail because of my dream. One of the things that I want to ask you about and discuss is a lot of people understand that sometimes in business it's not just about you, it's about the market that you could put something out and it just won't work. You know, like that's has nothing to do, no bearing on your ability to be good at what you do. What are some things that kind of failed with ripbody when you first got started where you start experimenting that just the market said no, don't like it.

Yeah. So we tried to do. I said that the website was originally in two languages and you'll notice that the domain was.jp it's now ripbody.com and ripped does not translate.

What is ripped.

Right.

It means torn.

Right. Torn body. What? Yeah.

So we needed to choose another domain so we bought another domain.

It's athlete body.

Okay.

That works in Japanese. Athlete is Asu Ito. So now we've separated it. It's two different language websites. And I tried to match the same business model onto the Japanese market and that didn't work. Now I was fortunate that I had enough money from English language coaching sales to cover the costs of the Japanese website, which was at that time the full time salary of Ken, who was working for then and is still working for me now. He's amazing. His job was to translate either articles of mine or articles that we had ask permission to translate and put out in Japanese for free. That was his job full time. And I did that and I carried on doing that for I think it was four years before we made enough money, before we were making enough money consistently month on month to cover his salary. And then when we got to a point where I felt that we could, I then took on a full time professional coach, Naoto and he's been coaching for us for I think six years now. And now we've got one more coach on the Japanese side. So that's a freed up. Ken to work on other projects like book translations. Yeah. Now Kosei and Naoto, they're doing the coaching in Japan. But yeah, we did not have product market fit. We were too early for Japan. For Japan, yes. Even the Australians, the English, we are far less inclined to hire a coach generally and certainly to hire a coach online.

Okay.

It seems to me that the Americans are far more open to getting coached. It's almost like where I'm from anyway. I don't want to speak for everyone from England, but if you need to reach out for help, that's a weakness. Why aren't you figuring this out yourself? That plus general frugality. Now of course this isn't everyone in England, but that just. There's a difference there.

Yeah. And I didn't extravagant kind of thing.

And I was lucky they had the money on the English website.

Right.

And the reason that I carried on in Japan because I thought it was the right thing to do and it was the right thing to do. I didn't think it was the right thing to do. It was the right thing to do because I'd turned around to people and I'd said, I want to translate your work. I'm going to put this out and I'm going to see if we can make a difference in Japan. And I wanted to keep my word. And also I felt a tinge of guilt. I was making money from online coaching that came from a place of. I would ask people if I could translate their work. And then I was making. I had attention in English from my summary articles that I didn't feel that I deserved. So there's a great deal of imposter syndrome. And I felt I. I needed to do this to feel morally right to the balance scales.

Yeah. So where is the Japan side of the business now?

Yeah. So we've got two coaches. We have.

Is it online or.

Yeah, it's all online. We've translated Starting Strengths, which is a very popular book on lifting. Barbell lifting. We made that a best seller. But our Starting Strength was already fairly well known. We made my two books, the Muscle and Strength Pyramids that I co authored with Eric Helms and Andrea Valdez, we made them into Amazon bestsellers. They're kind of considered in Japan to be the bibles for nutrition and training.

Right.

And for more serious trainees and among coaches. So that's fantastic. So the website has a lot of respect when we put stuff out, people listen. It's almost to the point where. No, it is at the point where if someone's in an Internet argument with someone, they'll say, no, you're wrong because athlete body says so.

Right.

And I'll drop a link which, you know, with. What is the phrase? With great responsibility comes great responsibility.

What's the phrase?

Is it with great. With great.

Like great power comes great responsibility.

Right.

I have no time for Spider man.

And so I think it was Batman. But, you know, maybe we're both wrong.

I don't know.

This is a really nice position to be in. But it's also, you know, there's pressure on us. We want to get things right.

Yeah.

But that's kind of where the business is. And then in terms of money. So revenue for that website is. So it comes from books and coaching in US dollars. I'm not entirely sure, but probably maybe about a quarter of mil and then ripbody still does better. The good thing about these businesses is that it's mostly digital products or digital services.

So great margins.

The margins are good. Yes. That's not to say it's not work. It is time for money. But the margins are good.

And in terms of your team, because that's part of the margins. How big is your team right now?

So it's myself and Matt. We coach on the English language website and on the Japanese website. It's Kosei and Naoto, and they're doing the coaching, and then Naoto and Ken are doing the article creator. Okay.

So it's pretty lean. I mean, that's great. Because one of the things that can happen very easily when you start making revenue is, you know, you try to grow faster, to hire fast, and you start building out a team and you start maybe having too much redundancy. Did you get to that point or did you hire slowly?

I was very slow. I was very much of the mindset that I need to do all of this myself. I was forced to hire for the Japanese side of things because my Japanese just wasn't up to it. But it took me a long time before I even thought of hiring my first coach. And that was a mistake that I made because I had the mistaken belief that people just wanted me because it was my name on the articles and I was the main. I was the face of the business. But actually it was. It was a friend, Ben jawalski. He runs wadprep.com which is another fitness business. It's courses for crossfitters, pain points, really good stuff.

Stuff.

And he basically called me out on my nonsense there. And he said, no, Andy, like, they trust you, and, yeah, they'd love to have you, but if you have said that someone is a really good coach, then they're gonna trust in that.

Yeah.

And I. My business is proof of that, so shush yourself and get on with it. Right. And then I had another friend who also said exactly the same thing.

Yeah.

So I was like, okay. And that's when I started to explore.

Love it. I got to know you in 2020, prior to my visit to Japan. We were introduced by mutual friend Jordan Harbinger from the Jordan Harbinger Show. Great podcast. And he sent me, like, your website, and I like to do a little research about people before I get to meet them. And I just fell in love with your website. I was like, I love the way this is laid out, the way it's communicating to people. I don't know if maybe it's communicating to me because I'm like your ideal client. Because I'm a busy entrepreneur, really prioritizes my health and my fitness and all that kind of stuff. But one of the things I noticed about your website is you clearly state, like, you literally state, I am for this type of person. I am not for this type of person. Some of the things you say on your website is like, if you've never worked out on your own or you don't know how to use weights in the gym. I can't help you if you are not willing to work out X amount of days a week. I'm not for you. If you're not willing to be coached by email and not even use your phone, use your laptop. Because your phone is not a really thoughtful way to respond to emails. I just thought, wow, this is like a masterclass at niching because there's so many people out there doing fitness. There's so many people doing fitness for entrepreneurs. There's so many. Like, I know them personally, they're friends of mine in Australia and all that kind of stuff. But I just really immediately thought, okay, this guy obviously didn't start out with this kind of niching, but he is definitely attracting people that will be successful. How did you get to that point where you were like, okay, this is my niche. How did you kind of filter down to this point and not be afraid to kind of say, I will be most successful this type of client?

Yeah. So there's a great deal of luck in my business. So I was very lucky from the start. My intention was to help people in Japan and become a personal trainer here in Japan in person. But someone called Phil asked me in the comments, do you do online coaching? And I was like, oh, Well, I know three other people that do online coaching. Alan Aragon, Lyle MacDonald and Martin Burkin. Wonderful. I mean, that's a thing. I'm sure I could figure that out. And then I was lucky because I had people that were interested in my service and I had a lot of people. And so I was able to say no because there was always somebody else that I could work with.

Yeah, you almost had to say no.

I either had to say no or I had to have a very long wait list. And I've ended up with both at different times. And yeah, I should have hired another coach at that point, but I was an absolute.

I didn't know that was possible. Right.

You know, and so I saw the patterns in what. What types of people got good results and what types of people were easy to work with. And so I niched down for that. And what ended up happening was I got better and better results with that subset of people. And that subset of people, when they're reading my website, it spoke to them more and it was a virtuous cycle. Also, I'll tell you, there was fear driving this as well. It was, what if I do a bad job with someone and they talk ill of me online?

Which can easily happen.

Easily.

Yeah.

I think if you type In Andy Morgan ripped body coaching review Reddit. Then you'll see one, one post like.

From 2016 or something that you will love. Real someone slagging me, which I don't think it was a client actually. It was just someone asking like, how is he?

And then, you know, somebody had given an opinion.

And so there was also a fear there because I felt that reputation is very fragile and stuff in Google stays around forever. And so I wanted to do a really good job there. And so I just gradually niched down and down and down and down. And the more I niched, the more it spoke to people in my niche. And so the more those people wanted to come to me and the more people kind of self filtered before the application stage. So then I'd end up with even more people who were appropriate for the coaching that were applying. So I wasn't turning down many people because I've been very clear from the start who I do work with and who I don't.

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I remember saying to myself when I was going through your website, I was like, this guy's like the Harvard of fitness. Because like Harvard, they do everything they can to make sure they find successful people so that they can take credit for their success later. So they can say, oh, you know, Mark Zuckerberg went to Harvard or whatever, or he didn't go to Harvard. Did he go Harvard? Yeah, he went to Harvard. Yeah. But the point is, is that like you are increasing your likelihood of success by choosing somebody who's one serious, you know, who's willing to do what you're asking. Two, has some experience, kind of tried a few things, failed, fed up, willing to pay to solve this problem.

Three, is aware they have a problem.

Because they're reading your copy and they're like, okay, let me sign up for this or apply to be coached. And I think that is like the trifecta of a really good offer for people to be like, okay, I am attracting a certain type of person that has certain needs, certain problems. When you are going through your clients, when you're going through, you know, helping out your hired coaches, do you kind of see the same archetype of person coming through like maybe, you know, had a bunch of fitness failures or you know, maybe can't get their health in order because they're too busy with work. What are some of the common challenges these people are having?

Well, challenges and archetype, they're two different things. But like the journey that they've been on is usually very similar because look, if you're just starting out in fitness, then pretty much anything that you do is going to get you a result because you have no training stimulus right now. And so anything that you do is going to lead to a training stimulus and is going to start changing your body. And then you get to a point you're like, ah, this isn't working anymore.

Your body is very adaptable.

Right, I need to drill a little bit deeper. And then you will get Men's Fitness magazine or Men's Fitness or Men's Health on the website and then you will get a program off of there and that will work for some time and then it'll stop working and then you'll program hop and then you'll probably go and buy some supplements and then the supplements won't work, but you'll be broker. And then you'll try some other fad thing and then you'll try some other like fatty diet that didn't work or maybe work for a little while and then but you didn't actually feel very good doing it and now you're like, ah, damn, what's up with me? There's something wrong with me, I have a problem. And then people will quit at each of these stages or they'll carry on and go to the next thing. And by the time someone's come to my website, they're prepared to read anywhere between a thousand to ten thousand word article solving a specific pain point, like how to adjust your calories while you are in a bulking phase so that you don't get overly fat. How to adjust your calories and your macronutrients, your carbs, protein and fats. Right. By the time someone's prepared to read that, they've already been on a bit of a journey because they realize they have the value in that information. And so anyone who's, who's looking for gimmicks or looking for a quick fix, they're just not going to come. So these are my people. And the coaching page is technically a sales page, but it has none of the typical marketer sales page elements where you're trying to get people to buy, buy, buy. Like it was a, like it were a digital product, for example. Right. It's like, look, this isn't for everyone. And I don't feel guilty about that. I used to, but I don't feel guilty about that. This is for a very specific subset of people. And if you're not one of them, that's okay because the entire website is free. If you have a question, ask me in the comments. I answer every single day, excluding weekends. And there's over 20,000 there answered. I am here for you. However, if you want to be a client, this is who I serve. This is who we know how to serve. This is how I do things. If you feel you need something else, I can't serve you. If you need me to on video calls, I'm not your guy. Yeah, I'm sure there's someone else out there, but if you feel you genuinely need that, then you should go and find that person because that's not me. So I'm very specific in what I say I do, and people are either on board with that or they're not. And that's, I think people respect that.

Yeah, yeah. And I want to get into your business model in a second. But for those who are listening, this is gold because you can now take this example and you can think of your own business and think, okay, what is the journey my ideal client has been through? What are some of the things, the challenges they've had? What are the things they've tried already and failed so that you can use that language, that kind of story building, in your copy, in your sales letters, in your videos, in your email so that you can speak directly to who you want to attract? And you could be like, hey, have you tried this, this, this, this? And you're frustrated, then you may want to take a look at this article and this article leads to a call to action. And this is brilliant for anybody who's starting out and doesn't really know who you know, this whole idea of like who's my avatar and who do I choose and things like that. Well, finding out what they're going through, their pain points and if you talk to them in that language, you'll be able to track those people that are suffering from those problems. So really appreciate you sharing that because that makes a huge difference for people that are kind of in the. I'll just serve everybody. So I don't, I cover all my bases. You know, I love your coaching model, your business model, because it's very streamlined. Most people that do online coaching, whether it's fitness or business or whatever life coaching, they do the model of, all right guys, sign up. You're going to pay $10,000 a year, you're going to have a weekly call and then you know, you can WhatsApp me whenever you want. And you go through some modules on my videos inside my members area. And that's kind of the model of online coaching.

Nightmare.

Yeah. So we're gonna talk about why you don't do that and from a practical point of view as an entrepreneur, but your model is totally, I don't wanna say totally, but mostly email based. So meaning that they send you an email and you reply to this email on a weekly basis. Is that what it is?

Every two weeks, clients will check in. I have experimented with every four. And every week. Every two weeks is a sweet spot. Every two weeks is obviously better from the entrepreneur, from the business perspective than everyone because then you can almost get double the customers. But practically, I don't think that having check ins every week is a good thing for an online fitness coach. Certainly for the subgroup of people that I'm working with, they already know how to train and they're busy and they are busy. It is a service. If you can get it down to a succinct email and spreadsheet attachment or link to their data that is good for them. And the fact that it is async, they don't have to put something in their calendar to have a video call with me. Again, for this type of person that is a bonus and obviously a lot of flexibility in my schedule. Yeah, so yeah, it's every two weeks, it's an email. They will check in by midnight on Saturday wherever they are and I will answer on Monday, wherever I am. And the reason for that is that let's say that time zones are switched. They're in Asia, I'm in America. I know that I always need my Monday, especially my Monday morning to be free. And that's just my constraint. That's my life constraint. And clients check in like every other week.

So talk about your workflow. Are you answering emails all day or all week? What does that look like?

Okay, so there are two types of emails that I'm managing. There are the check in emails and then there are the application emails. Application emails are somebody and you can go to RipBody.com coaching and you can have a look at that. I've got the steps laid out there if you would like. They enter in a form that they're interested in. I'll reply, just say, hey, are you a bot? Just reply saying, why you want this? Just to help me make sure. If they're not, I'll send a quick loom video reply saying, hey, Omar.

Yep.

Thanks for your interest. Below in the email you'll see some questions and I look forward to seeing how we can help. I've said that thousands and thousands of times. Right Now I've got 18 questions in there. This will help me dig in and I say to them, look, don't be on your phone, be focused when you're doing this because this is going to form the base of the plan if we do move forward and work together. And then I will then reply with probably the most detailed email that they've ever seen. Right?

Yeah.

Telling them where I think they're at, what they need to do, what I.

Think they're doing well, what we should change moving forward, how long things are going to take.

Yeah.

I might need to pluck out some nonsense that I think they've swallowed. I don't have to do that that often. And then I send that email over. And at the end of that email I said, look, let me know if this sounds good. If so, I'll send over pricing and coaching information. Now, the pricing range is already on the website. 500 to $800 a month. Right. But the specifics of what that is is not said. So most people, you know, I'm getting them into they, yeah, I want to find out. I want them to agree. So they're saying, yes, please send over pricing information. Great. I don't want too many questions at that point because I've already prepared all the questions I know they're going to ask because I've done this thousands of times at this point. Right. Pricing email, boom. Another email that's templated.

Yep.

Right. That's another template.

Like a text expander shortcut you got there.

Exactly.

Yeah.

I use the Superhuman email app which has that built in, but the other one is Handcrafted, of course, the pricing information doesn't need to be and no one expects that to be. It's not a bad thing. And then they're like, how does this sound? Right. If great. Which option would you to like? Is it Matt for email only or Matt for email plus a little loom video along with the email? Or is it me for email or me for video and email? Those are the four options. And then the next is a disclaimer, a few more questions, and then we move on into the coaching. In that first week, they can email me at any time. I will answer. And then moving forward, it's every two weeks, they check in with an email with some set questions that I want them to answer and a spreadsheet link or an attachment with their data, which is quite detailed.

Yeah.

And then they send that on a Saturday. By midnight Monday, I will answer them.

Yes.

Then if they will either say, yep, got it, no problems, or they will ask me any clarifying questions. So then Tuesday, I know I have to be on my email, but pretty much by Wednesday, I've got little to do, coaching wise.

Yeah.

And so that. That's my worst case.

That's pretty good. Yeah, that's pretty good. I mean, I've known you for some time. We holidayed together a couple times. You're very good at systems. I appreciate that because Nicole and I are very big on like, sop, standard operating procedures. And I'm sure you've built a lot of systems in your business to free yourself up so you don't have to think about this every single time it comes on your plate. So this is huge. For those who are thinking of coaching, thinking of doing any kind of agency business, consulting business, your business is as strong as your systems. And, you know, I mentioned this in a previous episode, one of the things that really gave Webinar Ninja value when we exited was our systems. It's like this was so easy to kind of hand over because there was like, oh, you guys have laid it out perfectly for us. We can take over and make it happen. One of the other things I remember vividly in my nine and a half years of building Webinar Ninja was I was motivated to be really good at business and to run a great business and be successful as a CEO of this business because I ran the podcast, the Hunter lmba Show.

Right.

So you're in the spotlight.

Right?

Yeah.

They're going to want to know how is your actual business?

Exactly.

So I was really motivated to actually be great at entrepreneurship as much as I could because I wanted to be credible and I wanted to make sure that I wasn't being hypocritical when I gave advice or when I shared my stories on the podcast. What about you? When it comes to fitness, do you feel the pressure to be in shape, to be as healthy as possible, and are you conscious of that in a social setting?

Even so, my Instagram handle is andyritbody.

And I have to joke with people and it is just a work account.

But I say, look, it's a brand, not a description. Because it is a brand. It isn't a description. I am not ripped right now. My abs are blurry. I'm certainly not in as good shape as many of my clients. And that's okay. You know why? Because they're not buying me.

Yeah.

They're buying what I can do for the clients. Right. The goal is to be happy with where you're at and no longer insecure with your physique. The goal is to be comfortable in your own skin and to find the balance between the sacrifices that you need to make to be in a certain shape versus living your life. And I'm comfortable with the balance I'm in right now. Now, of course, I'm going to go to the gym.

You look great, man. What are you talking about?

Well, I'm going to go to the gym. I kind of have to go to the gym, and I have to stay in shape, but I would want to anyway because it allows me to do the activities that I want in my life.

Right.

But when I look at some of my peers, like a good buddy of mine, this is an extreme example, but Mike Touche. I wake up this morning, I flick on Instagram, and he shared in his stories that he's just pulled a 900 kil. This is down near 2,000 pounds. In his latest comeback meet for powerlifting. This is in the Masters. Like, he's a legend. A lot of my friends in the industry are in tremendous stupid shape. And that could have driven me crazy if I wasn't careful and piled a lot of pressure on. But I've tried to avoid that because very early on I realized that if I make the business but me, then if I, God forbid, you know, I have an accident.

Yeah, right.

And I can't. I. I don't know what kind of accident this would be, but I can't stay in shape anymore. Well, then I don't have a business anymore if it's all based on how I look. So I don't have a business that is just selfies, right?

Yeah.

There aren't any. You can't see any.

I don't think I've ever seen a picture of you online without your shirt.

There is, like, from ages ago. Yeah, but.

But you're not answering questions on Instagram with your shirt off.

No, no, no, because it's. It's all about what I can do for the customer.

Yeah, right.

Michael Jordan, right? He wasn't asking his coach, like, well.

Show me, like, what you can do. No, like, it's not.

I mean, even in your world, I was sharing with you that I downloaded Arnold Schwarzenegger's new app, the pump app, whatever. And he's not in anywhere the shape he was when he's Mr. Olympia. But it's about what he knows and what he's accomplished. And, you know, same goes with you. What you know, what you've accomplished and who you helped all these years, how many people you've helped all these years. So that's why people come to you. So it's not, you know, people respect Arnold and you in the space because what you bring to the table, what you can do for other people. I was just trying to find a way to put you and Arnold in the same sentence.

I appreciate that.

Okay, you're good now. Was he a hero of yours growing up? He was a huge hero of mine.

Oh, no, he's amazing.

I know he's amazing.

He's been in all the best films. Of course, it was just that era, right? The 80s 90s.

Absolute legend.

I didn't know.

I didn't look at him, though, and think, I want to build my body and look like that because it was just so far from where I was at. I didn't.

Maybe Frank Zane.

Yeah, there we go.

Yeah. For those who follow bodybuilding. Yeah. Great stuff. I want to kind of wrap up with a few, you know, personal questions. When it comes to your business, you've optimized it to a certain point right now for you, as the founder of RippedBody and the first coach, the main coach, what do you want to do with the business for the next five years? Is this a business you want to exit? Is this a business that you want to keep forever because it's been so good to you? Is it a business that you want to hand over to somebody else or none of the above?

Yeah. So I have no intention of exiting. I consider it my baby. I. Well, you know what? You consider webinar ninja your baby.

So I put everything into it.

I have no intention of exiting. I like What I do, I still love my Mondays.

Today's a Monday. I'm still after this interview, excited to get back and answer the rest of the client emails that I have.

I guess when the time comes where that doesn't fill me excitement anymore, then that may, that is the time where I need to hire other coaches to replace me and maybe think of exiting the business. But I think that no, I don't think we are a good thing in the industry. And I do have an opportunity to help a lot of people, not just those that we work with, not just those that we coach, but to be a website where people can come and they can have all of the information on how we get the results that we do at their for free. And I want to keep that resource there so that if my 19 year old self were to stumble across it, I would have everything that I needed. Now whether I'd read it and trust it. Right.

That's another thing.

Right. Because I might not see the value in this level of detail, but I wouldn't want that to disappear. And so remaining in control is the only way. If someone was to throw, I don't know, what was your exit recently? 1 billion, 2 billion? If someone wants to throw that at me, I might think twice.

And just to wrap up, I want to ask you this question because I've known you for some time and I. And you've been in business for quite some time. What has entrepreneurship given you as a person, as a human being, as Andy.

Morgan, the first thing I thought of was friends.

Yeah, yeah, good friends. Josh, Nicole. Yeah, right.

Good people.

Yeah, yeah.

Just really interesting people all over the world.

Yeah.

And I mean my clients as well, they're amazing.

Like, they're so interesting like, and come from all walks of life.

Like, I just feel super lucky and inspired to be a part of the community and I do feel that it's a community. It's wonderful. I can't imagine doing anything else.

Yeah, I couldn't agree more. I really feel privileged that we get to hang around with people that are. Everybody we know is like chasing a dream, is trying to get better, is trying to improve despite all their successes, despite the fact that they've been doing this for 10, 20 years. It's just to be around those kind of people all the time. Not only do you get better, but also you get to see, you know, where this ends up. Like, you know, I like to talk to people that have been in business for longer than I was, you know, 20, 30, 40 years, and be like, okay, this is what I can look forward to. Somebody who's making 10 times as much as I am, working a fraction of the time I am. Okay, how do I get there? What did that person do? I'm gonna talk to this person, figure it out, you know, and it's just like, you don't have access to these people if you're not in the same career, if you're not doing the same thing.

Right?

Yeah. And I love that. I love that. Andy, thank you so much for taking the time. We're gonna have some extra content for those who are inside the member bridges area, inside the hundred dollar mba. But love, love talking to you, love hanging out with you. And I want to congratulate you on the business that you built, the people that you've impacted over the years. I can't really think of a better gift than great health, like the gift that you give people. That's incredible. So thank you so much, man.

Thank you. I appreciate the kind words.

Dynamite conversation with Andy Morgan. Learned a ton. Learned a ton just by sitting with him and spending time with him. I've known Andy for a few years now. I've been a close friend of mine. In fact, we were snowboarding together in Hokkaido about a week before that, and I broke my fibula. I broke my leg in Japan. And because he speaks Japanese and has been there for 19 years, he helped me tremendously in that week leading up to the interview so that I can actually pull it off because, you know, got me medical attention, he got me a wheelchair to rent, he got me all the things sorted that I needed to get sorted, doctor's appointments, all that kind of stuff. He was super helpful with that. So I want to just give him a shout out, you know, it's good to have friends around the world because they can help you out when you need it, when you're traveling. So. But I was so glad that we got to have that conversation with him. One of my biggest takeaways from Andy is that he really wanted to create a business that has meaning, that really helped that give back to the Japanese community as well. That has an impact not only in his life financially, but also impact on the people that he serves. So it really allows you to have a sustainable business when you have both. When, yes, it serves you in terms of making you money, but also serves you in terms of having purpose in life and purpose of why you're doing this in the first place. The money will get old. I know that sounds very privileged, but the money will get old. You will get bored of making money at some point and you're gonna be like, well, why am I doing this? Why don't you just retire? Well, that purpose, that drive, is really gonna allow you to make the business sustainable. If you love this episode and you want more amazing lessons on how to build your own business, grow it, scale it, go ahead and subscribe to the $100 MBA. Whether you're on Apple Podcasts or Spotify or here on YouTube, subscribe to the show so that you can get our next episodes automatically. And also, also if you're listening to our podcast, by subscribing, you get access to over 2,500 business lessons in our archives. You can also check them out over on our website, 100mba.net. You can search by category, you can search by topic and get all the lessons for free. This is my way giving back of my journey of entrepreneurship. It was tough for me. I want to make it a little easier for you. So thanks so much again for listening and I'll check you in the next one. I'll see you then. Take care.

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