MBA2533 Extended Interview: Peter Baines – How To Create a Value-First Charity

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Maybe you want to be charitable in some way, but Value First Charity thinks about the person that actually is going to donate and says hey, how can I be valuable to that person? How can I actually give them something of value? So they're actually happy to consume that piece of value and in exchange I am charging them and then from that I'm able to help my organization, right? So for example, instead of saying hey, can I have a donation of $100 for my charity? You say hey, how about you give me $100 and you're invited to this VIP party that's going to have, you know, food and drinks and all this kind of stuff and you know, after your cost that money is going to go towards your charity. Now why is this more appealing? Why does this actually work better than actually just asking donation? Because it doesn't really help the person that is giving the money. Now, I know that we're trying to do something good and this is for charity, but that's not a sustainable business model for any kind of organization, let alone a non for profit or somebody who's trying to raise money. You want to be able to continually give value to somebody so they feel like, oh, I'm getting so much out of this and the charity part, that's cool and everything, but really I'm signing up because of this great party. So we're gonna sit down with Peter Baines, who is an incredible person, somebody I met through a charity organization called Hands across the Water. I did a charity bike ride for Hands across the Water back in April of 2024 and it was an incredible experience. I said, I have to sit down with this guy and have him on the podcast. Peter Baines spent 22 years with the New South Wales police force in Australia as a forensic investigator. Due to his unique skills, he spent many of his years going internationally, being deployed to countries like Indonesia, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, Japan to deal with crisis situations and figure out what happened after the devastation, when people have passed, people have died. He also worked for Interpol in Leon to lead an international counterterrorism project focusing on cbrn. So he's got a ton of experience in these devastation crisis situations, so he knows how to deal with pressure. But how did he get into charity work? Well, back in 2004, he was commissioned to go to Thailand so that help out after the Boxing Day tsunami that was devastating. Over 275,000 people died in that tsunami. And Peter's job, he was commissioned, he was sent out to identify the bodies. And in that tour, in that moment in time, he realized there were so many children that were left without their parents. There were kids coming to this temple area that I actually visited myself. It was this temple grounds where there was the biggest place where they can actually stack all these bodies, unfortunately. And he would see the children come by and say, you know, looking for their parents. And in that moment he realized, wow, there are so many children that don't have the support, the protection, the food, the education they're going to need because they lost their families. And that's how Hands Across Water started. In our conversation today, he's going to show you how he didn't know anything about starting a charity, but figured it out and Walk you through the steps so that if you want to start a charity or any charitable part of your business, some things to look out for, some things to consider and ways to make it successful. All right, Peter, great to have you here. I absolutely love what you do with Hands across the Water. I was first introduced to Hands across the Water when I went on a bike ride with Dale Beaumont's business blueprint. It's a funny story because we were having dinner about a year before the ride and he was like, hey, do you want to go on this bike ride? We do every year. This is our 10th year. I was like, oh, that sounds great. I was like, that's future Omar's problem. And then lo and behold, a year passed and it was April 2024 and we went on this bike ride. I was like five weeks out of breaking my leg, but I still was able to manage it. But through that experience, I learned a ton about your organization, Hands across the Water. I obviously heard the story and understood what we were writing for and what this organization is all about, but our audience has not heard that story and you tell it so well. I'd love for you to take a mom to tell us what inspired you to kind of start this charity and what are some of the kind of experiences that led to starting the charity itself.

Yeah, sure. Thanks, mate. And it was great to have you in the Cole on the ride. And, you know, it's always interesting to hear people's journey as to what it was that got them onto the bike and, and, and then the overall experience. And I've got to say, it's one of the hot. My highlights of doing the rides each year is, is watching people have their first. Because I think we, we imagine what experiences will look like in all sorts of areas of our life and. But it's not until you have the experience that you can truly understand what it's about. And for me, you know, watching first time riders finish the ride is something pretty special. But let me answer the question and I'll answer the question with a little bit of history. So for 20 odd years I was a forensic practitioner with New South Wales Police here in Australia. And my role was to attend and investigate scenes of major crime and collect the forensic evidence, present that evidence to the court for them to find in criminal trials or coronial inquests or so forth, and progressed through the forensic services group. And, and I guess things really changed when I took a promotion, came back to Sydney as a detective inspector because I'd spent 10 years living and working in regional New South Wales, in Tamworth. And not long after returning to Sydney, there was the Bali bombings in 2002. And because of the specialist skills that I had, I was asked to go to Bali to be part of the leadership team that was identifying those who died. And, you know, I think it was really terrorism on our doorstep and it was on a scale that we'd certainly not seen before. It was 13 months after 9, 11, and I think the world was facing something it hadn't before. And deploying into Bali, I spent my time there leading the identification and repatriation of those who died. And there was a skill set that was put to practice and teams that were formed on a national level across many disciplines, because as the police were in charge, but we have forensic dentists, biologists and so forth who attend and make up that team. And then it was only two years later that there was the Boxing day tsunami of 2004. And it would claim around that 250,000 lives across Southeast Asia, so many of them in Banda Aceh and Indonesia. And in Thailand, there was 5395 bodies that were recovered and about half of them were international guests or foreign nationals. And. And the international community responded. And I was called to again lead the international response in the identification of those who died. And the very difference between Bali and Thailand was Thailand was a humanitarian response. Where Thailand was, Bali was a criminal investigation. And so for 2005, I spent multiple rotations in and out of Thailand as part of the international contingent. And then it was at the end of my time in Thailand where I met a group of kids, Thai kids, who'd all lost their families. They were living in a tent within a temple. And I realised I couldn't change what had happened with these kids who'd lost their families, lost their parents, lost their homes. But it felt within my capacity to do something around what happened next. So I returned to Australia and made a commitment. And that commitment was to start the charity Hands across the Water and see if I could raise some money. And the interesting thing, Omar, is that it was a step into this world of philanthropy, of charity, which I'd never been before. I was just a forensic policeman, you know, and then taking the leap into this space, which I knew nothing of, had no experience, didn't come from a family or network that had a lot of money. And I started because it felt the right thing to do, but, you know, was very naive in the starting of it. I have to admit, this is so.

Interesting because so many people that Start businesses that, that night. Naive nativity, naivety. What am I saying? Being naive. Yeah, there it is. Really helps you. Because what you don't know really helps you kind of take that first leap. Because if you knew all the challenges and all the problems that you would face, you probably wouldn't start. I have so many questions just off that story. The first one is why did you decide to start a charity and not be like, oh, you know, that was really touching. I'm gonna just find some other charity or find other people to like give money to. Like most people when they see they visit a third world country, they visit a developing country and they go home and they get that perspective, they feel like, okay, let me find somewhere I can donate or some way I can serve them. They don't think starting a charity, like, why was that the thing that you felt like that's the impact I want to make?

Yeah, really good question. And I guess part of it was I didn't have money to donate. So it wasn't as though that I was sitting on this nest egg or I had money that I could simply donate to a charity, it would be the case I had to raise the money. And I guess looking at the circumstances at the time you touched on it, being naive served me well. And what happened in Thailand, which is not dissimilar to what happens in other areas in response to crisis and disaster. And I've worked in, you know, several countries, Japan, Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, Thailand, after, you know, large scale disasters. And there's a consistent thing that happens in that, in that immediate aftermath, there's lots of people who respond, government agencies, corporates, NGOs, charities, and they turn up and put their flag in the ground and say, we're here. But too many leave too quickly. And whilst there is absolutely a need for those organizations who respond and address the immediate needs around food and sanitation and water, and so forth, I was responding. And the time I made the decision, it was 12 months on and a lot of the international large charities had already been and gone.

It's basically when the media stops covering it.

Yeah, well, and they've raised their money, you know, because the crisis element is gone. So you could say I was a bit late to the party. And it was 12 months after the event almost. I started the organisation in October 2005. So it was 10 months after the event. And as I say, a lot of organisations are gone. And it was the case that the kids that we were support supporting or the kids that I met living in the temple, there wasn't a natural organization to partner with. And so there was a gap. So I filled it by starting a charity myself.

You know, we visited that temple on the last day of our last leg of the ride, riding into the home. It was a very sobering moment for all of us. It was about 70 of us, 70 riders and looking and imagining what it was like for you to see all the unfortunate dead bodies that were there piled up and the concept of children looking for their parents. You know, it's a heavy, heavy moment, you know, and we were, you know, not there with you when it happened, but we were there, you know, on the ride and just being in on the same ground as you were, you really understand the impact of that event on all these people's lives and how much impact you're making with this charity, which is really notable. So I just want to kind of just touch on that. The other thing I wanted to, to touch on is, you know, many people that leave their job, their careers and start a business, start an organization, start a charity like yourself, they have skills that they, that are transferable, that they can use from their previous career. What were some of the skills that you had as, you know, somebody from law enforcement, somebody who had, you know, quite high rank and leadership skills. How did that help you as you started the charity?

Yeah, it's an interesting thing, I guess when I look at what the transferable skills were and, and sometimes we do ourselves a disservice when we don't acknowledge the skills that we have and what we can bring into business. And I think one of the things that, and we touched on it earlier is the, the scale of where things end up as to can be daunting and off putting to starting. And I think that if we wait until we've got all of the answers to all of the possible questions before we start, we'll never start, you know, And I think there's a real parallel to the identification work we did with those bodies at that very temple that you're talking about. And I recall sitting on a step at the end of one of the long hot days and sitting on that step and all we could see was the decomposing bodies of three and a half thousand people in this one temple. And there was an Australian pathologist who sat there and said, all we can do is a token effort because this is just so big. But the thing is, we started and we started putting in place a process. We started the post mortems, we started the identification work, and 12 months on, Omar would return over 5,000 bodies to the families who'd lost someone. So I think it's fair to say it was so much more than a token effort. And I think that's the same with the charity. You know, where we are now and what we've achieved in the scale and size that we are. If I'd thought that was what I had to get to, it would have been too daunting and I wouldn't have started. So the skills that certainly came across from the work I'd done was around that leadership, it was around that problem solving. It was around, I think, just, you know, taking action and not letting the excuses get in the way and deciding, well, this was a problem that needed to be addressed and, you know, I'd sort it out along the way as opposed to having the blueprint, which would take me through to the finish, because that certainly wasn't the case.

Yeah, I mean, definitely you mentioned about, you know, just using what you have to get to the next day. And that's really what business is and that's what leadership is about. It's just like I have to do or I can do right now and sort of I'm going to build the parachute as I jump out of the plane. So definitely I can resonate with that in my career as an entrepreneur and I'm sure everybody listening as well. Does it feel like it's getting really hard to figure out the best way to save for retirement? Fidelity can help you find clarity so you can save the best way for you. With a free personalized plan, goal tracking and timely insights, you'll be set to take on retirement your way. Get started@fidelity.com future expenses charged by your investments and other costs and fees associated with trading or transacting in your account. Apply Fidelity Brokerage Services member NYSE sipc. If you your parent or spouse served in the military, you could join our family. Our members saved an average of $70 a month on Odds auto insurance when they switched tap the banner or visit usaa.com join today to check your eligibility restrictions apply. Now, you know your charity is based in Thailand. You know you're registered in Thailand and Australia, New Zealand as well. Many of our listeners might have team members from different parts of the world, different cultures, different nuances from those cultures. You know, different, you know, might be a language barrier. What are some of the challenges that you face setting up your charity and building your team, all that kind of stuff with a different culture, with a different type of workforce?

Yeah, I think the challenges that I think that we faced early on are challenges that have only grown in time and it's not around operating across cultures or across different countries or having remote workforces. And the very nature of our work meant that ever since we've existed and for the first, you know, 10 years, there was no staff, there was no team, it was just me and then the board of directors. And it's only that last 10 years that we've really grown and both here in Australia and internationally, and our team has always worked remotely before COVID made that common. And that was just because the nature of our operations. But I think the biggest challenge that we faced and as I say, which has grown, is relevance. And if I'd asked you, Nicole, and you know, so many of those people in that business blueprint audience before you did the ride, what's the relevance to you of children in Thailand when it comes to charity? And I think if we're all, you know, a bit honest, we'd say quite low and if at all. And because Thailand is not a. It's not the first country Australia goes to. Thailand is not a underdeveloped country, it's a developing country. And, you know, to be honest, the work that we're doing, you've been there, you've seen the kids. They're not kids who are questioning where their next meal is going to come from. They're not on the, you know, the edge of poverty and going to die if we don't do something immediately. So it's a story that faces challenges because when people, and people, business, corporates, when. When they look at making decisions around what charity they should support for the most people, they start at home and. And they say, well, this is. We're going to support local charities and so forth. And, you know, which is always interesting because we're such a global community now. So for us, we had to be relevant. And so someone like yourselves, what we had to do was return value to those who choose to come and ride. And I think the key to what we've done as a charity that has seen year on year growth and continues to grow is because we seek to provide value first to those who engage with us rather than seeking to get their dollars. Because it's an interesting thing in the charity sector. If I ask you for a donation and you give me $100, you give me $1,000 or $50, that's kind of the end of the conversation, because I've asked you and you've given me something and there's not a lot of return to you in that. And it's really the least engaging form of giving is just making a donation. But if I take you on a five day journey through Thailand, that results in personal growth, professional growth, builds connections, builds a community. You start to look at this and say, if I say to you what were the top things that you took from the ride? You'd say, you know, personal belief. I achieved something I didn't think might have been possible. I shared it with my partner, I had this amazing time with colleagues. So immediately there's a return to you. And so when people think about coming back, they say, I had this incredible experience, built these new business connections, I had time to think about my business, I focused on myself. And for entrepreneurs, those setting up a business or starting or running their business, time for themselves is one of the things that is a low commodity, you know, because they're so busy on business. So I think for us it's always been the relevance is a challenge, but we just found another way to address it and that's meeting the needs and bringing value back to those who engage with us.

Yeah, I just want to take a moment here and just go over that again because it's such a gem, because you're really focusing on how can I make this experience not only worthwhile, but more than just helping the children? Right. Like, that's the end goal. We want to help the children, we want to help the charity. We're going to get there. But in order to get there, we need to kind of package it, sell it, present it in a way that is appealing to the donor. And I think a lot of people don't get that. Like, a lot of people don't understand that. Oh, if I say if I'm selling shoes and then, you know, you buy a pair of shoes and I'll give you a pair of shoes to the poor, that is not very sustainable because, you know, I'm buying the shoes anyway. It doesn't really make a difference. I can buy shoes here, I can buy shoes there, I can buy shoes down the street. So personally, from my experience, for those who are listening, you know, like when I was approached, when Dale told me about the ride and you know, we got the emails from hands across water. Okay, what do we have to do? It's, you know, $3,000 for the logistics of the ride and that would include the hotel, the meals, and. And I was like, okay, that's very reasonable. Okay. And it didn't actually hit me until right before the ride that, oh, this is actually helping the children. Like, I knew in the back of my mind this is for charity, but really what you did is you created an event I can't reproduce. I can't reproduce the experience of going to Thailand, knowing all the great spots, understanding how to ride the bikes in a safe way, renting the bikes, meeting all these people that were on the ride, other entrepreneurs, you know, having these chats, having local meals, you know, understanding all the, the cultural nuances and culture. And we're there during the Water Festival, Sankron, and we wanted to make sure that we did that. Right. Like, I can't pull this off on my own. So the value that you're offering me as an entrepreneur is huge because it's like, well, I can't do this anywhere else. So I, I guess this is the only place I can go. Like, you're, you're dealing with no competition, right?

Right, yeah, yeah.

So from the other side of the table here, I just wanted to share that with you and those who are listening because for those who are just listening to this conversation, how can you create that kind of value in your business, in your charity, in your work, that the end user feels like this is a. Hell, yeah. Like this is a no brainer, you know, And I have to say, you did do that. And I understand. I'm going to, you know, 10 years in of this ride and, and it's, it's been perfected over the years and I'm sure year one was, you know, the beta version and wasn't as polished, but I just wanted to kind of touch on that in a moment. That's actually very brilliant and super useful for everybody who's listening.

Yeah, cool. Thank you, mate. And thank you for those kind words. And I think we've been brought up that when we talk about charity, that we should start from the position that what we give and there's no expectation of return. And, and when we're talking, this is obviously a business chat, business community. And right now in Australia, we're in a cost of living crisis. And so families and businesses are looking at their discretionary spend and saying, well, what can I wind back? Either temporarily or at risk permanently. And when we look at a business, for example, whether it's small or large or a family budget, something like charity for most people would be a discretionary spend. And we say we have to rewind that back right now. A business, they might wind back their investment in learning and development, they might postpone that conference that they were going to have or that team off site because business will continue without that. So it's a discretionary spend and here's the risk and here's the kicker for charity. If we're in a cost of living crisis and people wind back their commitments, what's also happening, those vulnerable people within the community are leaning into the charities and looking for more support because this cost of living crisis has hit them harder. So we've got greater demands and we've got less supply. So what we've got to do, and this is a work that one, the philosophy I brought to hands, but also the work I do with organisations and businesses, is turn that commitment or the support of charity from a cost centre into a profit centre. Because if we can say to you, if you look at your CFO or the business owner looks at their P and L and all they see is red when it comes to charity, well, they go, let's wind that back a bit. Just for now, times are a bit hard. But if we can help them turn that into a profit centre, then you'll continue to invest, would you not? You know, it's no different than any other profit line in your business. So the reason that we need to do that from a charity point of view is because if I can help you, as a supporter of my charity, grow your business, well, then you'll invest more and so the pie becomes bigger. So we can end up benefiting by your benefit, by you benefiting, we will benefit too. And some of those areas where, you know, charity can help business, profit center, turn that cost centre into a profit center, is things like customer retention, staff attraction, brand differentiation, new markets. And it really speaks to the culture of the organization. And there is so much research out there, Omar, that says, you know, people, when they're making this rise of conscious consumerism with people wanting to do business with organizations they like. And if you as a business can demonstrate, I'm working with a real estate company right now, now, what sets them apart from their competitors? Well, it's not the commission that they pay their staff because they all pay commission. It's not the marketing, because they all invest in marketing. You look at them and there's very little difference between them. But if you're considering listing your home for sale and you look at an agency and go, well, hang on, this agency's really investing in this space. They're doing some great things. They're a company that I feel aligned to. I'm going to list with them, because that's the only differentiator between all of the real estate companies that are doing exactly the Same thing, right? And so I think it's so important that one those considering, investing and supporting charity do it from a mindset, well, this needs to be good for our business and turn it into a profit center and have the kind of conversations where there are the metrics, there are the KPIs, because you don't go into a business relationship with another provider without any clear understanding of the cost and the return. But charity, you just say, well, here's, here's a net portion of my profit that I'll give you. I hope you do well with it and I'll feel good for a little while. But you know, it's our role as a charity is to elevate that relationship because if you do well, you'll stay. And you know, we go back to this bike ride that dale did, started 10 years ago and he continues to do it because it's an offering for his members which is so different. You know, it brings that community so much stronger. So.

And it helps his retention, it helps his community to stay together because they're meeting every year and they're, they're enjoying their time together. They build memories together. I love this idea of like, if you're thinking about starting a charity, how can you provide opportunities for the companies or they're for the businesses that are going to be sponsoring you, ways that are already aligned with their goals, already aligned with what they're spending their money on. So a good example you just gave is like, you know, the bike ride and they have a P L. Why not? Two birds, one stone. You're going to do a team retreat. Instead of doing your team retreat on Fiji, why don't you do it here in Thailand? We're going to do a bike ride. Part of that, that you're going to be able to help this cause, it's going to mean more to your team. And that is an expense they're paying for anyway. And it's probably an expense that's non negotiable because the team is looking forward to it. So it's a great concept. If you're thinking about having a charitable part of your business or starting a charity is like, how can I provide something that actually they want? Like I want to pay money for this. And the byproduct and the domino effect is I'm helping, you know, the cause.

The only caveat I'd say to that is that it needs to be meaningful and not tokenism because I think if it's done just to show that we've done something, I think it can have a bigger negative impact than not having done it at all. So I think that whilst there should be a business return and you should be looking at that, I think that it needs to be done in a meaningful way because I've been on these type of retreats and so forth with conferences who say, let's have a CSR component to it and so that they feel like it's sitting. Culturally, this is what we do. But I've heard the chat from the delegates who go, this is such a waste of time. And you look at how the resources are being spent and what the charity's done to accommodate that. And so there's. It's like anything, you know, like, if you don't invest in it properly, well, you can't expect a good return. So no different than how you approach every other aspect of your business.

Yeah. So I want to dial back the clock a little bit. It, you know, you just started the charity, you figured it out, you're excited, how did you raise your first few dollars and then how did you decide how to give this money, where to give this money? Like, literally, did you go and give a check to somebody and they paid for clean water? Like, what, what happened? Exactly. Just for those who are starting out and they're like, I don't even know what to do.

So I guess one of the things it's. It's really made the charity that I started sustain is that in between my tours in Thailand. So before I even started the charity was I was invited by someone to share the leadership lessons I'd learned working across all of the crisis and disaster zones, that I have to share them from the stage as a speaker. And the funny part of this, Omar, is that I had lunch with a guy who had been doing this for a long time and I was still working full time in the police when we had this convers. And this was before I met the kids in the temple and he told me about this industry of speaking, being a keynote speaker, and he gave me his business card and said, let's explore this. You've got a story. It's just whether you can tell it or not, I walked away from that lunch and I dropped his business card in the bin because I thought, this is absolute rubbish. What could I possibly have to offer of value to anyone outside of my business, which was free forensic police, you know, So I just thought it was a sales job. I thought, I've got no value here, no future in this and it can't be true, and threw it in the bin and walked away. And it was only when I went back to Thailand, I met the kids and decided to support these kids and decided to start the charity that I asked the same question you just did. How do you raise the money? And I went back to that lunch and thought, hang on, if half of what that guy said is true about this speaking business, that's how to raise the money. I got back in contact with him and said, matt, you know those stories you told me, could that be true? And he said, well, there's only one way to find out and it's try. So I put together a 45 minute presentation and I gotta tell you, I sucked when I started. But that became how I raised the money. I got paid to share my stories, and whilst I remained within the police full time, employed the payment that I was getting to tell my stories, became the fundraising. And there's been some moments in time that I could never have imagined. And the biggest change was I was invited to speak in San Fran and in the us, an Australian group of retailers and manufacturers and suppliers who were holding their conference there. I spoke at that conference, shared some stories for an hour. And at the end of that presentation, one of the delegates, a man by the name of Shane Leaney, stood in question time and said, petey, what are your recurrent costs right now? And at the time they were $50,000. Right now they're $2 million. But I said, $50,000. And he said, all right, I'll put $500 on the table as a donation. And I asked those in the room to match it, sat down, there was another question and we continued. Nothing further was said. We went to lunch and Sugar Ray Leonard was the conference. And the conference had effectively finished. And there was a gala dinner that night. I was sitting having lunch within the conference area and the CEO came up to me and she said, you know that pledge of $500? And I said, yes. She said, well, it's gone to $100,000. And I couldn't believe it. And I was moved. It was very emotional. And I spent the afternoon in a deep, reflective state of what had happened. And we went to dinner that night and the chairman of the organisation, John Whipley, stood up and he said, we've heard some great stories from a young fellow today. You've responded as an organisation. And that donation of 100,000 grew to 250,000. So I left that conference, Omar, without asking, without saying what I needed, without giving websites or anything like that. All I did was tell a story I left with quarter of a million dollars. They invited me back the following year. They had their conference in Whistler. And that week I spoke for Lang o', Rourke, the construction company, and Ray o', Rourke, the chairman. I was told to travel to Sydney to meet him after the conference. And I walked into his office, never met the man before. And he gave me a big hug. And it was like an old uncle I hadn't seen before and I hadn't seen in a while. And he pulled out, he reached into his pocket and his staff were standing around. They said, not yet, Ray. Not yet, Ray. Yeah, it's all bullshit. He goes, here you go, son, and handed me a check for quarter of a million dollars. I flew to Whistler the next day for the conference from nata, who I'd spoken for. And I left that conference with $330,000. And so that's happened a number of times over the years. And so that's how I started the fundraising. And it was an effective way of fundraising, and it remains so today. But what it's more about is not the donations that come because they're very special and unique moments in time, but it comes from the distribution. It comes from organizations who say, I'd like to do my own bike ride. I'd like to ride. And so that's where the money started and follow the money trail and that's where it's continued.

Mate, that's incredible. Want to sell your car your way?

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Yeah, my pleasure, Benny. Yeah, my pleasure.

So obviously you get the ball rolling, you start raising some funds. What about the other side of the token or the job where it's like, okay, now I raise some money. How do you know where to put this money towards? How do you know who to give it to?

Really good question. And I think when we start up, you find local people. And I was only asked this question the other day with a lady that I've been working with who runs one of the homes up in the north of Thailand and met her in 2010. And it was a real process of building trust both ways. You know, like I was a middle aged white man stepping into a kid's home. Many of the kids who have HIV and sadly have been abused sexually. And so if she trusted me early, that would be a problem. But it was a case of I had to trust her as well, build the trust, because I was about to give her and her organisation considerable amount of money. And so in the early days we were almost like a supporter where we gave money to an organization that was on the ground that, that we started and formed so forth. And then it was, we became big enough to start buying the properties ourselves and take full ownership of them. So it was this evolution, not unlike business, you know, like you start somewhere, you start a job, you buy some shares, you become a shareholder, then you become the major shareholder, then you own the company, you know, and in a strange way, that represents my journey as well. I, you know, met a Thai lady who, who sadly passed away with cancer, but believed in what she was doing. She told me what they needed. We built the home for her to live in and to look after the kids. And then over the years we grew and that's where we find ourselves now.

That's lovely. Just for those who are listening. When we signed up for the bike ride, you know, we paid the small fee to be able to attend and take care of the fees of the actual ride. But then in order for us to qualify for the ride, we needed to raise at least $5,000 dollars each. So Nicole and I had to raise this money. We, we did high value events where we ran an event to sell tickets to, to entrepreneurs that want to meet each other. And then the ticket was basically go to this page, the hands across the water charity page that was made for us and donate. It was at least $300 for us in order to get admission to the event. In that process we learned like how Easy it was for them. First of all, I loved your interface with the website and how easy it was for me to send somebody there and a tax deductible receipt right there. I don't even have to touch the money at all, like, which was fantastic. I want to talk a little bit about, you know, some of the challenges you might have had as you're starting out and building the technology and the website and the ability to make it easy for organizations to raise money for the charity.

Yeah, cool. And I think the, you know, there's some really important points to cover off there. And one is around governance, one is around compliance, and one is around transparency. And if I'm asking you to go to your network and ask them to donate to us, there needs to be a level of trust and there needs to be a level of transparency around how those funds are used. So right from the beginning, and perhaps it's related to my forensic work and my, you know, law degree and so forth, is that I think the best way to build trust is to give information and to be open. So ever since we started operating, up until Covid, we'd never spent one cent of donors money on administration or fundraising. And how we were able to do that was in 2011. I set up a company that sits next to the charity that undertakes its own commercial activities to generate income, not through donations, but then meets all of the operational costs. Now, this was important for us so that if you go to your network and ask them to pay $300, you could see where those funds were going. And it's not to say administration or fundraising costs are bad. In fact, they're necessary. And as an organization in the charity sector, if you're not investing money on administration or fundraising, there has to be a question asked. But I think when you can show the level of governance and compliance and so forth.

Forth.

And we have all of our audited accounts, so we have external accountants who then have external auditors, and all of those accounts are on our website. So it gives people the opportunity to look and feel comfortable then in either donating their own money or asking someone else to donate on their behalf. I think in the early days for me, Omar, this was so new, it couldn't have been further removed from a homicide scene. You know, and in those very early days, in the busiest time, I was working for Interpol in Lyon in France on a classified counterterrorism project focused on chemical, biological, radiological, nuclear threats. So that was my day job, Right. But then the charity I was running on My own. And what I had was if you gave me, and I laugh thinking about it now, but if you gave me a $200 donation, I could see in the bank account I had such visibility over where the donations were and the slow build. But what I would do is I'd then go into my word template that I had on my computer and it was a two page letter and throughout the document there were three words that were in red and that meant for me, I had to go in and type and change those words each from dear Nicole to Dear Omar, thank you, Omar and all the best, Omar. Through the document. I did that three times. Every document, I'd print it out, I'd hand write a receipt, I kid you not, handwrite a receipt. I'd get a photo from one of the drawings that kids had done, put that in an envelope, handwrite on the front of the envelope. The next day I'd head to the post office to send these out, these donations. And that was how I did every receipt initially. Like, because the, you know, spreadsheets and all of that kind of stuff, it might as well have been in a different language to me. But how do you move beyond that? Well, then I think you invest in people, you know, invest in people and systems and processes, know what you're good at and know what you're not and bring people in to help you with those. You know, I don't think you need. And I think it's a disservice to try to have the skills to do it all yourself and be the master of all of this. And you know, my, the biggest weakness I at the board meetings is my financial literacy of P&LS. And we have five entities across three different countries. And I look at those, some of those documents and it's like I see figures just moving on the page and I look at the bottom and I go, what's our net position? And then I ask those who have the skill and have the knowledge to tell me about it. And I've just focused on the things I am good at. So I think that the biggest thing is know what you're good at, work on that, work really well and build a team of trusted people to fill the gaps.

That's a great lesson. One of the things that we try to teach here at the Hunter LBA is that when you become an entrepreneur, it's a transition of mindset and you gotta start asking yourself, who, not how, who can do this, not how can I do this? Because you can't learn how to do everything. I can only be great at a few things and work on those things for you. Definitely, definitely. It's, you know, your public speaking and the stories you tell and be able to bring awareness to the charity. It's actually you're doing your charity a disservice by trying to be good at the finances, too. You know, that's actually taking away from the time that you need to do your secret sauce. So that's a really good lesson for those who are listening. You know, you don't need to learn how to do everything. You could find somebody who could do it and get them on board, you know, figure out how you can get them to do it. So that's sometimes a bit of a sales skill, so totally. Peter. I want to close off with a bit of a personal question, because a lot of entrepreneurs that listen to this podcast, they. They get really overwhelmed with all the things they need to do, especially at the start. It consumes their whole life, whether it's travel, whether it's just long nights, whether it's the personal sacrifices they make. How did starting Hands across the Water affect you from a personal point of view, from a family point of view? You completely changed your life, in a way, and how did it impact you? And what are some of the things that you had to change to kind of change your life?

Yeah, thank you. That's a. A really, you know, lovely question to. To round out the conversation on. And, you know, it's coming up 20 years since the Boxing Day tsunami, and I've been blessed with incredible highs within my life over that 20 years, and some of them we've spoken about today, and. And, you know, some of the people I've met, and indeed my wife, I met on one of our bike rides. But I've also had, you know, some desperate lows in my time over the 20 years, and none more so than when I started the charity. You know, I came back from Thailand and at the end of the tours, and I was physically, emotionally, financially, I was broken, and I'd separated from my wife. And navigating that at such a time in my life was incredibly difficult. I found myself living in. In, let's say, less than modest accommodation for some time, because I just didn't have the financial means to have other options. And it's interesting that at that lowest point in my life, when everything I owned was in the boot of my car and staying in a hostel was when I started the charity. And I guess it's a time where you think, I'll do this, when I'm in this position, you know, I'll give when I've got enough. And I couldn't have been at a worse point in my life when I decided to do something for someone else, and that was starting the charity. But Omar, in doing that, my life changed on every level. And I've had this incredible journey over that 20 years of growth in every aspect of my life. And the speaking has taken me around the world and to share the stories and, you know, just taking a job in Lisbon, in Portugal for next year and, you know, and each time, whether it's in the US or France or, you know, Barcelona, where I've been, or whether it's Brisbane or Melbourne or Canberra, I stand on stage. I feel this deep sense of privilege to share the story and I feel real gratitude to be invited to share. And I think, I think, you know, in starting a business and the pressures and, you know, starting the charity, the easiest time is to start. And in some strange way, it's almost too easy for us to set up a charity, but the hardest thing is to continue. And when we start, we normally have the support of family and friends who believe in us as an individual, not necessarily the core. And the biggest challenge for charity founders is having the ability to continue when, you know that spark that was ignited for you to start diminishes, you know, when there's a pull to say, okay, I actually need to return to my business, I need to return to my family, you know, this can't rule us, how do you continue? And so that's the most difficult time. But I think, I think, you know, whether it's in charity, whether it's setting up your own business or whatever, we've got to find balance. And I think the balance has to be in taking time to feed your soul. And, you know, that bike ride that you've done, I've done one since then, which is number 39 that I've done. And each time I spend four, five or eight days on a bike, like with a group of people, it's food for my soul. And I really come back feeling nourished to having taken that time. And I think the other thing is that we need to continue to look for uncomfortable situations in our life because that brings us the most amount of growth. And as we approach the 20 year anniversary, for me it was this hugely significant, significant moment in time. And I went, how do I recognise this moment in time and what do I do to bring about, you know, a personal journey, but also something that's Good for the charity that will raise funds. And so I made a commitment almost two years ago that I'd embark on a 1400 kilometre run from the HIV home. We run in the north to the tsunami memorial in the south. And I'll complete this 1400 kilometer run over 26 days. And you know, it was only last Saturday that I ran 68 kilometers in Thailand. It was 37 degrees. And one of the things in business is that we can't let yesterday define our tomorrow. And whether it's, we've had a really difficult day yesterday, we need to be able to wake up and view the opportunities and the challenges afresh. And conversely, we can't ride on the success of yesterday. And to me, these runs and the training that I'm doing, and I know at the end of the year that there'll be really difficult times during that, but they will pass. And there will be really amazing times of euphoria, but they will pass. And I know that the growth that I feel now, you know, 18 months into this commitment that I made, I obsess over it in such a good way. And as we get older and towards the end of this 20 years, it'd be easy not to do something that's a little bit frightening or a whole lot frightening, but that's where the growth comes from. And I think they're the two things that have served me well is, is taking time to feed your soul and doing something that puts you in an uncomfortable position because that's where the growth is.

Love it. Peter, thank you so much for sharing that personal side as well as just your whole story today. So many great takeaways that everybody can take from this conversation. Peter, this conversation's over, but our relationship keeps going. I'll let everybody know that we're big supporters of Hands across the Water. And I'll be sharing the page that we're creating for the $100 MBA where people can continue to donate and we're going to continue to add value to that whole process. But I'm a big fan of what you do and just I'm a big fan of who you are as a person. I think that.

Thank you, man.

Yeah. One of the things reasons why I do these events and go to brides and conferences is because, as you said, you have challenges in your life. You try ambitious, ambitious things. You grow, you improve. And as you grow, you start to realize, oh, there's not a lot of people that I can relate to anymore. Meeting you makes me feel like, okay, you know, there's Lots of people still out there that are interesting and fun and doing amazing things. So thanks, Peter.

Thanks so much for having me, mate. It's been a great conversation. Thanks so much.

I appreciate it. Take care. I absolutely love this conversation with Peter Baines. What a story. I mean, I still can't believe he started this charity when he was in his lowest moment when he was living in a hostel. That's incredible. Really fun fact about Peter Baines. He has a recognition, an honor in Australia. It's called the Order of Australia. It's an Australian honor that recognizes Australian citizens and other persons for outstanding achievement and service. This is like being Knighted in the U.K. you know, like Sir Richard Branson, for example. So huge recognition from the Australian government for all the efforts he's made in his career. And he's still continuing to do, you know, he's still going on strong. So I am so proud of Peter. I'm so proud of Coleman for friend. If you were inspired by a story, the best thing to do is to just get going, do your part in any way to be charitable and maybe add a little charity to your business or just even just let these ideas simmer for a little bit. If you do want to help Hands across the Water. We are partners in Hands across the Water and we have built our own page at the hundred dollar MBA to support the cause because I believe in this charity so much. You can go to 1000mba.net give me give and you can make a donation. Everything is tax deductible. You'll get a receipt automatically. And what I love about this is that we don't touch the money. It goes straight to Hands across the Water and they're able to help out the children in need in the homes that need it the most. This was a little bit of a different episode, a little bit somber. I know that there were some tough stories here, but it gives us perspective. It allows us to understand what others have gone through, understand that we're gonna have tough days in the future as well. So let's make sure that we're prepared and that we understand that. Hey, hey. In order for us to appreciate the highs, we're going to have some lows. Thanks so much for listening to the $100 NBA show. Make sure you subscribe, whether you're on Apple, podcasts, Spotify, YouTube, whatever it might be. Subscribe so you get our next episode automatically. I'll check you in the next one. Take care. When the flu is keeping you up at night. At night, don't Try to tough it out. Knock out your flu symptoms with Nyquil Intense Flu. You got this. It provides powerful relief of your flu symptoms so you can sleep well through the night. Nyquil Intense Flu the nighttime sniffling, aching, aching fever. Best sleep with a flu medicine. Use as directed. Keep out of reach of children.