10x engineer or 10x scammer?

Wait, that's, that's an idea on its own. Like, we should just go make a CAPTCHA website that's like more fun CAPTCHAs, right? Yeah, because we need to make CAPTCHAs fun.

That should be—

write that down.

You're listening to Autha VPN, the show where two work besties get real about working in tech.

What's up, Allison?

What's up, Jasmine? How are you doing today?

I'm all right, I'm all right. We've been real close the last, uh, the last week or two, haven't we?

We really have. We reached like telepathic levels of communication. We were on Zoom every day for 6 hours a day. It's been fun. There's a word I—

fun is a choice of words, not the one I would pick, but, uh, my half glass full.

My glass half full. My glass half full.

Um, it was an experience. We've— we added to our, our trauma bonding. I think anyone who's ever done this with like coworkers— so we had some like escalations that Allison and I were leading the past few weeks, and everything's good, like we were able to like handle it, but it was definitely like a all hands on deck type of situation with the two of us. And we had other folks helping out, we had like comms and things. And so Allison and I were just like really deep in it. We were deep into the cave, deep into just like communicating, doing like stakeholder communication, doing all this stuff. Anyone who's dealt with escalations knows what I'm talking about. And it lasted like what? Couple days, like 4 or 5 days.

Yeah.

Yeah, it was a lot. It was just intense. Like, we were just on the entire time. And so what she said, we— by the end of it, like, Allison wouldn't even finish her sentence and I would know what she was saying and vice versa. She'd be like— I'd be like, all right, so we're going to merge this and we're going to do— and she said, what about the thing?

Yeah.

And then I would finish. It was like weird. Yes. Yeah.

And it was like the most obscure, like it could have been 50 different things, but she knew exactly the one that I meant. It was like, yeah, we just became, we became one.

It was weird. I think anyone who ended up talking with us, like we had obviously had to speak with other people and work with other people, but we were working closest. So I feel like it probably was real weird for the people on that call. We're like a, like a, like a joint mind talking to them.

I'm like, we, we, there was no I, it was like we implicitly. Yeah. Yeah.

Like the Borg, like, like the collective has decided.

The hive mind.

Yeah, exactly. It was, it wasn't our first escalation and neither was it our second or third. We've had a few of those. In life, which makes us— it makes it easy to work with each other, which is like the good part.

But it really does. Like, at one point we were kind of snapping at each other, and that was really— yeah, only we get to do this because we've been doing this together for like almost 6 years.

Yeah, I know. And I remember being like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. You're like, what? But I was just like, I can't even— yeah, we got to a point where like, actually, we just need to chill. Everything's fine, you know, like Yeah, we're good now.

We're good now. And now everybody's reminded that we're not just podcast hosts. Like we, yeah, we're, we're still doing software stuff. And that's why you might get one fewer episode of Off the VPN this month. We're insanely busy. Apologies, but you know, the work must, the work must go on. Yeah.

I don't think I could explain that to like our head of engineering or anything and be like, hey, so we're not gonna deal with this escalation cuz we have to record. For our podcast. I thought about it, but I'm just kidding.

I mean, it would've been preferable for sure to just sit here and talk about tech drama with you, but yeah, we had, we had tech drama of our own and that's fine. That's part of what we signed up for.

Exactly. Exactly.

All right. Well, to pivot from, from all of that, I have—

from the trauma.

From the trauma. I have somebody, this actually, this story is, this story is not really filled with trauma. But it, I'm excited to, to read this one to you cuz I think it will have a lot of, we'll have a lot of commentary on it potentially. Okay. But today's story is about being so good at your job that you automate your way out of it. Okay.

Yeah.

So something that like, I think a lot of people in the tech industry know some stuff about automation, automating your tasks, making your life easier.

Yeah. Isn't it like a joke? Like anytime you have to do something twice, like an engineer just wants to automate it. Like we just, which honestly, I still feel this way. Anytime I have to do something, I'm like, why do I have to do this? This should never exist. We are some of the laziest people, I think, engineers in, in some degree.

Yeah.

Where we don't wanna do anything.

Like nothing manual, that's for sure.

Nothing manual. No.

Automated, we're doing it. Yes. Okay. So we're gonna call our friend here today, Jamie, for this story. Oh, okay. And Jamie's expertise is actually in IT, but lots of parallels with, you know, what we do. And so at some point during the pandemic, Jamie, as an IT specialist, gets a job working for a law firm. One of Jamie's responsibilities at this law firm is basically to handle like all of the digital evidence that comes in that they collect for trials.

Yeah.

Sounds so serious, right? Would you want this job? No. Yeah. I don't wanna, I don't wanna look at that. I don't want that stuff on my hands or my laptop.

Could you imagine moving data and there's just like some, you just must see some wild stuff.

But then again, but then again, then again, and again, you'd see the wild stuff.

So there's less interesting data out there, you know? Yeah. Okay.

But yeah, it's just, I'm like, I, I heard that and I was like, oof, Jamie, this is, this is high pressure. I, I'm not cut out for this. Good for you. Good for you. Um, but okay, so some context here on how like the div— digital evidence collection works at this firm, uh, that we need to get out of the way to understand the rest of the story, is that, uh, basically every day this firm will get like thousands and thousands of digital documents and photos that are basically like evidence for different trials. This happens daily, and the way that it gets sent is it basically is all sent and stored onto a local drive. So, pause. Yes, we're pausing.

Whose local drive? Jamie's local drive or the person—

the firm has like a shared local drive that like people, they will store all evidence across many different trials on the local drive. Okay, okay. So if you're like, this sounds like the early '90s, uh, yeah, right. So when Jamie shows up to, to work as an IT specialist, they're basically like, hey, we have a major project for you. We want you to basically get rid of this nonsense. We want everything to be stored in the cloud.

So that sounds like a good idea. Yes.

They're, they're trying to modernize. They're trying to like get with the times.

Jamie is a law firm.

Yeah. Is like, great. I'm your, I'm your person. Like I can do this. So Jamie's task then, right, is like take all previous evidence, like all prior evidence that they need to retain for whatever legal reasons, upload that shit to the cloud, and then on a daily basis, anything new that comes in is still going to this local drive for some reason. But it's Jamie's job to then take it from local and move it to the cloud, and that would be like a daily thing.

Yeah, maybe until they figure out what they want, like the next process to be, maybe they'll put the stuff into— there's probably like things to work out of like how to make sure they all get into the right bucket. So until then, we'll just keep the same, the input. Yeah, maybe the input stays the same and you do the local drive before you send it. That makes— yeah, probably. That seems, that seems to make sense.

Okay, for sure. And then like one interesting thing that they have to do is also ensure, like, the fidelity of these documents. So basically, apparently this is a thing in all, like, courts where when you present digital evidence, you also have to have proof that digital evidence wasn't tampered with, right? Like, so nobody, like, went Photoshop or— and did something with it.

Oh, interesting.

We'll get into this a little bit later, but that is part of the, the process here.

It's not just like a timestamp on there, or maybe there's like a digital, like, uh, fingerprint or something. Attached to this. I don't know too much about, like, what do they call it, data forensics. Yeah, whatever.

So CSI, basically everything I know about this is from television or when they shared with me.

So, or like, we had one class in college. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah, so like, those sound like really great things, Jasmine, but I mean, it sounded like I knew what I was talking about. You did.

Don't ask me any questions.

We'll get into that a little bit. Exactly. Like how Jamie specifically handles like the verification.

Blockchain.

Sorry.

All right. I'm done.

I'm done.

I'm done. I'm done.

Okay. One other detail just for context is like, as part of this new process, they want Jamie to be like the sole person who has admin access to all the evidence on the cloud. So everybody else just gets like read.

It's probably a good idea.

Vaccinations. Yeah, let's lock this down. But Jamie's like, okay, great, like, this sounds like a plan. What else do you need IT for?

And they're like, but doesn't she become a bottleneck if she's the only one who's uploading? So she goes on vacation, no evidence makes it to the cloud.

Yeah, I guess Jamie's not going on vacation, but wow, that's crazy.

Oh, I— maybe this is getting to the automated part.

This is—

all right, this is where we're going because I'd be like, excuse me.

Yeah, like What are you reading? Uh, but yes.

Like what?

You, okay. The job thing in your head, we're getting to the automated part, but like, you know, so Jeremy asks like, okay, great. That's one task that I will be doing as your IT specialist for this firm. Like what else? And they're like, you know, that's it. So as a technical person, like in your, your like knee-jerk reaction, does this task or job sound like a hard job to you? Does it sound like an easy job to you? Like. What are your, what are you thinking so far about this? Like what they've asked Jamie to do basically.

Just to the job, just running it back. The job is just to create some cloud storage. We're gonna like figure out how to organize that. We're gonna format it to pull all this old data into the new system.

Yeah.

And then going forward, anytime there's new data, it's gonna go into that format. And we also need to make sure that everyone is provisioned the correct access to those buckets.

Yeah, it seems like a re—

it's a, it's a doable problem depending on what's in that local, whatever local— I don't know what that means to this day. Like whatever local quote unquote drive is, like, I don't know, is it like a local server? You can only access it when you're there. I don't know what that, I don't know what that word means. It can mean a lot of things. So. Yeah, there could be challenges, but it seems like a 1000% reasonable thing to do.

Yeah, I agree. Yeah, definitely. So Jamie's like, okay, right. Like, this is what you want me to do every day. I work 40 hours a week. Like, once we do all of the, like, grab all the prior evidence, put that shit on the cloud, and then it just becomes like a daily thing I have to do. Jamie's like, you want me to like That's not really like an 8-hour-a-day type of thing, but okay, great. Like, I'll do it.

Oh yeah. Like, like what happens after this is set up? What is my job then? That is a question.

And there was no answer to that question. It was like, just like, like, just worry about this. This is your task. And Jamie's like, okay, great. So the pandemic happens.

That's when you write scripts. You write scripts that shut down the system, so you fake fix them.

Okay, wait, what? Oh, oh, I see, I see.

Yeah, yeah, you gotta put like little, little like things because they don't know how to, you know, read it. You gotta put like a little script that like every so often uses like some random generator like kind of function and like times whatever, and then it breaks things so you look like you're the only person who can—

yeah, can do it. You're like, I'm so busy, I can't help you with that printer issue you're having because I was major— like it's about to be an outage. I gotta go. Like, I'm sorry.

No, if you built the system so wet, like, you need to look like you're useful. So you just have it— yeah, just like put it on like a— I don't know, 60 days. You don't want it to break too often, so you got to do it by like a factor of, I don't know, 60 days, 70 days.

This is so calculated. Yeah, yeah.

Anyway, I'm just saying, she wants to keep her job. It sounds like they don't really have plans for her, so Anyway, I have other ideas, but I'll let you finish your story. I was gonna keep— I can keep going.

I don't want to hear them, but we'll, we'll get maybe at the end. Not to be clear, not for me to use, Brazil.

It's just right. Was the escalation this week actually you?

I don't know. After what you're saying, I kind of think it was you. But we're pointing—

gotta remind everybody that I'm useful.

If you made my life hell for one week because you thought you didn't see me, well, I'd be so bad. I'd be so bad.

No, that was not me. It was not me. I promise.

Okay. So at some point, Jamie transitions to remote work. Okay. Like shortly after joining. And quickly realizes this is so dumb. This does not take 8 hours. I don't like, I'm just finding busywork basically. So Jamie is like, listen, I'm just gonna write a script. And the script is, I don't know, like there's probably a lot of things that they glossed over, but like the script waits for new files to show up in the local drive, the new evidence basically. When new evidence is added, then Jamie's like, okay, great, I'm gonna generate a hash. This is how they prove like there hasn't been any tampering. So each file will get like a hash generated for it. And then when it's local, and then when Jamie moves it to the cloud, it, they generate another hash. And then basically if you can prove that those are equal, it means that there was no tampering in between. Like the actual local-to-cloud process. So basically we need to detect when a new file gets dropped to the local drive. We need to generate a hash for that. Then we need to move it to the cloud, and then we need to generate the hash again and just compare them. And that's it. That this is what the— Jamie writes a script to do this. So that's it for the script. I mean, there's like some additional stuff that Jamie left out of this story, probably because it like, gives away too much about either the law or security.

Like, yeah, like, he's not like— you might be accidentally giving off like, here's how you can break into this, here's some vulnerabilities. Because I'm like, that all sounds well and good generating a hash, but I don't actually know what are the like best practices for this type of evidence security. Yeah, like, they're— I, I don't know, because Is this on the actual image? There's, there's a lot of questions I would have, but sure, let's assume that she did that, like Googling and whatever, figured that out. Sure.

Yeah. Yeah. There, it's like there's more stuff here, but basically like within a week of working remotely, Jamie has the script up and running and now she's able to wake up, log into work. Basically like show face virtually. And then she doesn't do anything all day until the end of the day when she checks the logs to just basically see, okay, did my processes run? Does everything like look smooth? Great. So Jamie's working like physically at a desk for maybe 10 minutes a day.

You're saying this and you're laughing, but I've heard this before. Like this is not uncommon in IT. It's at all. I'm not saying this of every IT system. That's not true. But I do, I have heard of stories like this on numerous basis that they automate their entire jobs. Yeah. But it also seems like this particular job is, could easily be replaced with like an application software. So I, I, is there anything else that these people need?

Yeah.

Doesn't seem like a full-time job. It's It's very interesting.

I agree with you. I think it seems like they probably didn't really know what they needed or like how complicated this process would be, right? Like they were like, oh, we have a general idea that this stuff should live on the cloud, but like we don't know what's involved there, so let's just hire a full-time IT specialist when really it's maybe you just needed a contractor for a few months.

Yeah. That's right.

If that.

What if it breaks? Like you need someone on call. So like that contractor, you just gotta keep that contract open, but you should do it on like, you, if you're spending like for 10 minutes a day and you're giving someone a full salary, that's nuts.

Yeah. But like, they don't know this. What do you think? They don't. What do you think? Is Jamie doing something wrong? Should Jamie feel guilty? Should Jamie tell them? Do you have thoughts on that? It's tough.

I think it's— I don't know, like, there's my, like, down with corporate America brain that's like, yeah, get your bag, sis, like, you know. And then there's my, like, moral, like, little angel on my shoulder being like, that's wrong, you're being deceptive and you're taking advantage of people's ignorance. And in which case, it does become a problem. I would like, if I was her, I would maybe, I think the thing that I didn't hear, and this is my thinking earlier, is like figuring out what else you could be doing. Like if this was an old system, are there, there must be other stuff that these folks might need help with or generating new things that's going to help the office. I think you don't have to do anything. I would just say push yourself to try to find other ways to be useful for your job. Don't just like, oh well, the thing they asked me to do is enough. Like, clearly they don't know a lot. They just know that one problem. So go find some new problems to solve. You know, I think technology can solve a lot of issues, and if you're not even thinking about how to do it, I think that's the wrong part. And like, the problem solver in my you know, soul would be trying to figure out like what else I could do. What are the other things I'd be talking to? Like, hey, so like what, what's an— they probably have a ton of weirdo systems like that, you know?

That can't be the only thing. I, yeah, I completely agree. There's a lot of questions that Jamie could ask to try and find other tasks, right?

Well, are they using typewriters in the back room?

Like Yeah, no, I was literally like, could you automate like other things for other people to make their lives easier? Like make their jobs whatever, faster, better. Like, yeah, I'm with you. Our friend Jamie doesn't do that though.

Wait, there's more.

There's a ton more, but I'm just, I'm just letting you know that Jamie sits with some guilt for a little bit and then it's like, you know what though? Like, Everybody's happy. They love that all the files are getting uploaded to the cloud. We're able to detect, we're able to prove to court that there's been no tampering. The fidelity all checks out. The work is getting done in a timely manner. Jamie gets to go off and enjoy her life in the middle of the workday. So Jamie takes a new project. You're like, this is a solid win-win. And that's all I know. I don't know how long people lasted at this job. I don't know if they eventually were like, I don't know, figured out you, you're working 10 minutes a day.

I don't know what. How do you even explain that to your next job? Say you're there for like a year. They're like, oh, tell me about your year of experience. What the, what do you, you have no year of experience. This is why interviews exist is cuz resumes can. You could be somewhere for so long and not necessarily be senior, right? Like, this is—

I think that's rough.

So I get— but then there's my little corporate America brain that's like, yeah, use those hours to like get another gig. Like, I don't think I could sit with that on my soul personally. Like, I would, I would wake up in the middle of the night sweating, what else can I do to be useful?

Like, Yeah. No. And the other thing too is Jamie actually did mention a detail, which was like, they, like, she really likes their, her boss.

So it was not even like, oh yeah, cuz they don't make her do anything. I'd like my boss too.

It's like they have a good relationship. Like the boss is like a smart guy, like whatever. And I'm like, I would feel like I'm lying and I can't sit with that.

Wow.

That is crazy. Yeah. So who knows what happened, but a lot of this actually got me thinking about how this was a, this was like a couple years ago, but how automation is just at a completely new level now today, like with Gen AI of how just like everybody to some extent is doing some type of automation.

Ooh, that's a good way to like look at it.

Yeah, from coding to just, I don't know, dealing with like spreadsheet formulas to like completely non-technical things.

I mean, autopay. I don't know. I'm just saying things now.

Oh, I was like, oh, you're—

there are things people automate. You're talking about automating just in general. But yeah, GenAI does.

It's just like to some extent a lot of jobs could find ways to use AI to automate, create a restaurant menu for me. Like, I don't know, I'm a chef here. Here are the things that I want, like build the menu for me, right? Like you don't really do that anymore. So it just, I don't know, I, it had me thinking too about like just the, the level of automation these days. Does that have an effect on like quality of work and output? And then also because this story talks about evidence that is used for trial, I was thinking about like how the risks of using AI for automation with sensitive data is just like a huge problem today.

Right, right.

Like this, like I'm like, this shit, the evidence that you're getting, like you better not be throwing that into models that people are using for training purposes. But like, can you imagine?

That's insane.

It could happen.

All the photos of like people keying people's cars. That's just like going into the generative models.

I like that you thought of that example.

What?

All, all the photos. Those are the photos that are now used for like the, the, the CAPTCHAs. Like find all the squares where someone is keying someone's car.

The evidence went into generative. That's crazy.

Yeah, please don't do that. Uh-oh. If anybody has the power of, they have like thousands of files of evidence on their company laptop. Please don't, please don't be doing that.

Let's, let's write that down as a CAPTCHA idea when we make our own app. I want that to be part of the login.

Our CAPTCHAs should be fun like that. You're like, what the fuck is this?

Wait, that's, that's an idea on its own. Like, we should just go make a CAPTCHA website that's like more fun CAPTCHAs, right? Yeah, because we need to make CAPTCHAs fun. That should be Write that down.

Make trashes fun. I'm sick of the traffic lights. I'm sick of the cars and the crosswalks. I want is somebody keying a car in this character.

Matter of fact, cut that from production. I'm gonna go look into this after this is done. It's actually— wait, this is actually really a good idea. Like, actually, I don't want this in the podcast because I think I might actually go look this up. That's actually really smart.

What do you mean?

What?

What?

Captchas are super annoying.

No, I know, but who's going to like— is that what's the business model?

Everyone has to do a captcha. You can make like a branded one or something interesting that goes with like your ideas. Think about it.

Branded captchas could be fun.

And Gen AI is such a like, like, oh my gosh, everyone's using AI. You really need to start using this more. So you play on fear. What?

Oh yeah, I'm with you.

But fear is the motivator. And then people like, oh, have you seen this thing? And then like your whole branding moment is that like you make like fun CAPTCHAs. Then the demand really comes from consumer bases who are like, hey, can you use this other thing? That's like the other like demand.

Okay, okay, I'm with you. Fun thing about this funcaptchas.com.

It's not the worst idea.

It's not. It's not.

I gotta think about this. I gotta think about this. Is it stupid? I don't think it's dumb.

No, it's just—

it's very relevant with what's going on.

That's all. Okay, let's wrap up this part.

Yeah. Okay, what are we talking about? King people's cars. I, I've, that's my other thing I keep saying is talking about king people's cars.

I am the captain now and cars on Jasmine's mind, everybody.

I mean, it also makes you think about like just how the education gap on technology just continues to widen. Right. I think that, I don't know, I don't wanna make assumptions about this law firm, but given that they had this old technology. You know, there's already probably some gap with your hiring someone for a full-time job that clearly was not a full-time job. So that's part of it. But there's also now with generative AI, like obviously I'm always talking about how we need more education because there are things people are scared of or are misunderstanding. Like I saw something about like ChatGPT thinks in this and people are having like, it thinks in like Chinese or whatever it was like the. The headline and people are like going through conspiracy theories and talking about this. And I'm like, well, that ChatGPT doesn't think. It's not exactly how this works, right? And trying to like explain this and technical people sharing this, by the way, that are like co-signing this. And I'm like, this is a bit misleading. And so I think that this is just goes into the same thing where now not only do we have— this is a common— this is not uncommon. We've heard this a bunch. I've heard people like who lie on their resumes when they grab a job, a tech job for especially a non-tech company and take advantage of that situation, or they learn on the job and they have no idea. Like the people just have no idea. This is very, this happens all the time. Now imagine now with generative AI coming into play and now we have peo— people like, oh, I don't need to pay my engineers, or I can pay them less because of generative AI because they don't have like an understanding of how this works. That gap, it just continues to grow and it's alarming in that way. I always think about education and people not understanding things and how can we give people more of a understanding or even just baseline understanding of how this stuff works. And especially if you're hiring folks, like you really should be thinking about this, or if you're an owner of a business. Or if you are leading any type of organization, even if you don't own a tech organization, you need some sort of technical acumen in this world. You just need it, or you're going to make really poor business decisions. You're going to make poor financial decisions. You could be behind, your business could be behind, and it could have a huge impact. So I think that when I hear the story, I, as much as I I, we can laugh, haha, this person only worked 10 minutes. I do think that there is a deeper issue again with like the education and responsibility of people who are hiring out technical folks.

That's such a good point. Yeah. And unfortunately, Jamie in this situation is in a really good position to do that education because she knows what's up. So it's, that's the doubly shitty thing about this story and sort of the outcome. I mean, we don't really know how it ends, but We know that at some point Jamie stopped feeling guilty where it was like, this was sort of a, maybe you'd put, you, you put yourself out of a full-time job, but also have a chance here to sort of help bring other people up in sort of like their technical understanding of something. And like that, yeah, that, that part's kind of a bummer is that like she, she didn't do that.

As you're like saying this too, I'm thinking like, where else is this applicable? I'm thinking of if you're hiring a plumber or an electrician, Mm-hmm. Right. It's one thing if they're, you're kind of taking advantage of the ignorance of some poor old lady and like making her go deep in her pockets for a job that was only gonna take 10 minutes and then you continue to like string it out. Yeah. And then there's like doing this for some corporation and people do that. It's like the same thing. I think it's just with technical stuff where I, I, I, I wonder like, what do people do? I don't have to think about that stuff. I pay for an apartment, so I feel like people with homes have to, that's like a thing they deal with every day, right? What do, how do people get educated about that stuff? How do they hire out?

Yeah, I don't know. I mean, I, that, that's a really good point. I, I also don't own a home, but I kind of feel like you do it to some extent, like the old school way slash use the internet to gather as much information as you can. Like, How long should a kitchen renovation take given like X, Y, and Z constraints? Like you just like start to build like a, I don't know, an understanding of the different scenarios and how much that could cost or like how long that could take by talking to people, maybe people personally or like getting multiple quotes. That's interesting because that's different from you hire somebody in tech, right? Like, it, it, it's like reverse, right? Yeah. But hiring electrician to do a job, I might talk to like 5 different people and then sort of average all of their answers of how much this should cost and how long it will take. But I don't know, like not to blame these, these law firm people for not like going and talking to people about the problem that they wanted to solve and how long it would take. But that could have helped in some sense do a little bit of research for the role you're hiring, for the task you're hiring for before it just like, right. This is probably what we need. I don't know.

Yeah, Jamie, Jamie, I don't know. It's kind of messed up. You gotta go do something else. You can't just do 10 minutes a day. Yeah, it's just, it's very— because if I hired somebody and they did that, I'd be pissed. I'd be so mad. But I would know. Yeah, but if it was like a something I don't understand, if I hired a lawyer We flip it around.

Yeah, flip it.

I hired a lawyer and they were doing 10 minutes and, and doing, you know, she's taking advantage of the situation and I think that she needs to put some more effort because it's messed up.

Maybe that is what happened. Maybe eventually Jamie came around and was like, listen, I worked 30 minutes this past year, I, I'm, I'm going somewhere else.

That is nuts. Or she got a second gig. At another law firm and did the same thing. And now she works a total of 8 hours divided by 10 minutes, however many law firms that is. A lot, a lot of law firms.

This is now Jamie's expertise, typically. My local storage to the cloud for digital evidence.

What would the Netflix documentary be of like this, like, level of crime? What are they— what would that be called? Like the Cloud Heist, something like that.

Something like that.

Oh, you know what, I got Scammer. Yeah, the Cloud Scammer.

The Cloud Scammer.

Put that on the list. Let's go start the Netflix.

All right, Jamie, we're coming to find you.

We're gonna find all of the scammers in tech. That have been scamming, and everyone's gonna have like the silhouette talking about what they did. Yeah, yeah, okay, great.

Actually, that sounds really fun. All right, I'm an ideas guy. Listening to this podcast, please, you— I hope you know where to find us.

Yes, we will not snitch, for what it's worth. I— listen, we just want to know the details.

We just want the tea. That's why we're here.

That's it.

All right. With that, I wish you a better week than the week we had last week. You too. Thank you so much.

You too. We'll be on vacation as soon as we know it. It's coming.

It will come.

One of these days.

Yes. When the sun comes out. All right.

See ya.

See ya. Bye.

Thanks for listening to Off the VPN.

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