Great at code, dating not so much

like even after all the red flags are clearly in her face, she goes, I don't think your boss can fit in a blender, silly. I'm like, girl, girl, this—

no. You're listening to Off the VPN, the show where two work besties get real about working in tech.

Allison. Jasmine, do you think software engineers are good dating material? What do you think?

I think it depends. I think two software engineers dating each other is either like a really great thing or a really terrible thing. Just think of all the petty arguments that like software engineers have at work. Like the cliché one, Silicon Valley, like the TV show, every Every TV show that's ever tried to talk about this topic has hit on like tabs versus spaces. Like now it's just even worse. Like there's just like a million things that I think have replaced tabs versus spaces as like, just like the field has developed a lot of different like opinions and methodologies and tools and all of that. So I think it totally depends.

I can't agree with you cuz obviously I'm a software engineer and I'm a great catch, so I don't see any problem with me in particular, but there's a lot of things about software engineers pretty quirky and I have a story about someone who had a really interesting dating experience with a software engineer. I actually think there's a lot of stories out there and they're typically not as, as positive as I'd like them to be. So this starts with our girl Rochelle, right? So, uh, Rochelle, she's on dating apps and she matches with a software engineer. So this guy's from Seattle. He seems pretty cool. Like they talk for a bit and he suggested something like kind of cute for their first date or different. Cute is maybe cute. Maybe you don't think it's cute. Okay. So he suggested, he's like, okay, like we're gonna do a picnic in the park. We're gonna both bring snacks and we're gonna each give a 5-minute presentation on your favorite niche era in history.

Okay.

Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. I like the picnic. I really like the picnic, but to be like, Okay, and you have to bring a presentation. My style is like just organically bring that up on the date. Like, that's—

this would— this— I would like this personally. Not the history. Yeah, but like, I would definitely show up with it. I'm into that.

I would be intrigued. I would be intrigued.

I would love this, actually. I feel like people don't do presentations on dates enough.

Well, like, we're in the park. What am I bringing my laptop, connecting to my— the data on my phone? Like, what are we downloading? The—

someone's— maybe it up— like, you can link— we're in the 20— 21st century. Like, We got this, like, this can be— this is totally doable.

Okay.

Anyway, so she actually likes this. She's like, I like my little nerds. And she says, okay. So they go to the date, they meet up at the park, they have their snacks out, they have the blankets. Just two people giving each other like some history lectures. It's cute. He went first. He talks about California history. He had slides, some bullet points, like actual citations, like got really into it. She was really surprised by how, like, just extra prepared he was. So it was very interesting. And she gave her presentation. She didn't really say much about what hers was, but it was a PowerPoint. It existed. That's all she said. Okay. She said, that's all I wanna say about it. So she doesn't wanna tell us what hers is about. Not selling it. Yeah, she's not. But yeah, she was, she was like, this is fine. I guess the guy was really prepared, whatever. That's authentic. And so they ate, they presented, and then things kind of, the tone shifted on the date. It was like weird. So they gave their history lectures and then things started getting weird.

Okay.

What do you think he started to talk about that made him be weird?

Did he start talking about software stuff? Like work stuff?

Yeah, exactly. So the conversation started changing and he started talking about his job and that's when things started getting weird. So basically he was like, I hate my job. The company, it's evil. He said that it's affecting his mental health. He can't deal with it. Uh, Rochelle asks him like, why is this so bad? What are the reasons that your mental health and all these things? And he said his team works remotely 4 days a week and he has to go into the office once a week. And that's just like a big issue for him. Just one. He said it makes him miserable. It's just not fair. Most of his friends get to work remotely full-time, but he doesn't get to do it. He said like he has a very long commute and he just like super resents his company. He's like, I never should have taken the job. So that's interesting. We could stop there before we keep going on the date, like what happens, but I don't feel like this is, I feel like software engineers complain a lot about stuff like this. So this is not, they do.

I'm just, I'm just mapping that to like true RTO culture where people are going back 5 days a week and yeah, I'm like, what? That's Pretty good.

I don't know.

But yeah. Okay. Continue.

Yeah, I know. I mean, it's, this is what he's telling her. Like maybe there's more context and stuff. Like I feel like tech stuff. I don't know. Like I think a lot of people, you're so, it's very much like, it's like a bubble. Yeah. It's a bubble. Like, I don't know how to quite describe it, but I get like why you can get like in your head about stuff. But yeah, I agree. Like probably not the best thing. It sounds a bit like. Privileged kind of problems here. Like, oh, I have to go into office once a week. She's okay. Yeah, that sounds crazy. Especially most people do not get to work remote. Getting to work remote is a special privilege that we get to do, right? Like, I'd probably still complain because I don't like going to the office, but like, to blame it all on that is interesting. Yeah, but I know how that would sound if I— it depends on the audience in the room. I probably shouldn't explain that to like blue-collar worker family members or something, they're gonna be like, Jasmine, really?

Like, if Rochelle is a nurse and is like pulling 12-hour shifts— yeah, I'm not saying that on date number 1.

Yeah, you sound crazy. You sound crazy. And I think when you're only talking in your sphere, like, it seems like a bigger deal than it is. So that, that's my take. But whatever. So Rochelle listens, she doesn't say a lot, and the date ends. So that kind of— they end it there. So Rochelle texts him after a date. You're like, apparently that the couple day rule doesn't exist anymore. That's something new that's out there. So, uh, which I think is dumb anyway, but she messaged him that night. That's like a thing, like, I don't know, you're not supposed to call or whatever. That's like the movies.

No, I was getting—

I don't think that's real.

Okay, so she messages him later that day.

Okay, yes. So that night, so they hung out in like the afternoon and then she texts him that night. She's like, hey, so I had fun, would you Wanna hang out sometime? Which, by the way, I ain't texting no man to ask them they want to hang out again. That's crazy. So that's all I'm gonna say.

That's not my style either.

I'll never see you again. Yeah, I didn't like my presentation, then they ain't got nothing to do with me. Anyway, the story isn't about me, this is about Rochelle. So Rochelle was like— so he messages her the next day. So not that night, the next day already. Like, I told you, Rochelle, you shouldn't Listen, anyway, so not with a text. He doesn't message her with a text though. So he, the next day she's like, hey, you wanna hang out another time? I like, I had a good time. Yeah. Next day he didn't message her like, me too. Hey, I'm not feeling it. He didn't send her anything like that, which is like what you would hear. I don't like you, or I do like you. Let's do this again. Let's not do this again.

Yeah. It's binary. Like, yeah.

Right. Simple, simple, simple, simple stuff. Maybe you have an explanation, maybe you don't. Easy, right? Yeah. That's not what happens. So she instead gets a message. It's an 8-minute voice memo. And that voice memo is titled Get Expletive and their boss's name.

What?

Again, let's review. Let's do a playback. We have a date. I text you later, hey, do you wanna hang out? I kind of, I enjoyed my time with you. You don't get anything until the next day. You get an 8-minute voice message. Get expletive with his boss's name.

I am noping out of there so fast as Rochelle. I, I'm listening to that with friends for entertainment and then I am not answering that.

Do you know what's on? Do you want to know what's on the voice message? Do you even know what it's going to be on it?

No, I'm just terrified. What is it? What is it? I was— wait, can I just say I was so excited for it to be an 8-minute, like, another follow-up history lesson on California.

That would have been great. That would have been awesome. But that is not where this is going.

Okay, what's on it?

So Rochelle, she pressed I'm so scared because this is insane. Okay, so she plays—

stop.

Get to it.

Get to it.

I can't because it's just like, I don't know what I would do. Okay, so Michelle plays this play and the voice memo starts and she's listening. And she can hear like different things. She hears like somebody walking into an office. She hears like a door opening. She hears sitting down and she hears this guy she's going out on a date with talking to his boss.

Oh shit.

So she hears all of this and she picks up that he's talking to his boss and it's in his pocket or something. This is a hidden recording device. She's being implicated. And an illegal activity. I don't know, maybe this is California, maybe there you're allowed to record people, but I think you can't do that here. So she's being implicated, she doesn't even know. She figures out he's talking to his boss and he's talking about why he should be allowed to work remotely for 5 days so he doesn't come in the office anymore.

Okay.

And this is the conversation that she picks up on. So he's hearing him say, here's like some quotes. It's unfortunate too, because right now as we're talking, my brother and my best friend Eric, they're up in Alaska. On the trip I planned and I just can't go just because I'm not at the level where I'm allowed to work from home full-time. I'm not trying to stomp my foot and say, you promised me remote work, but I'm just saying this is unacceptable. It's just not sustainable. It's just not okay.

I just feel like the, oh my gosh. I just feel like that was such a bad example to give. Like my cousin, brother's uncle, whatever is in Alaska, like I just, first of all, you could take a, you could take a vacation if you wanted to. You could take a day off. Is it that he has to be in on a specific day of the week? Is that the problem? Or could he be like, okay, why don't I go to Alaska on Friday, but then I'll be in the next Monday? Like, we don't know.

I don't know. Cause like, is it like he's out of PTO days and like, that's why I just feel like he's losing the plot.

Here.

There's probably a lot of context. Maybe it's just his team that has one day a week. I'm not really sure. But I feel like we're losing the plot, which is like, what does this have to do with the girl you just went on one date with?

Oh no, 1000%.

Like, how weird was that?

And also to not even like answer her being like, hey, I had fun, do you want to do that again? And to just be like, Yeah, that is wild behavior.

There's a lot. There's a lot in there. There's a lot going on. Yeah.

Do we, do we know how the boss responds?

I don't think there was much about what the boss said. Like, there was just like some context. She just thought, she just like was trying to say like he basically what they were talking about yesterday about I wanna be 5 days a week. This guy clearly goes and stands up to his boss so that he could go to Alaska for reasons. And somehow implicated her in this crime of recording someone without their knowledge. And what was weird is like after she gets this message, he sends her— so remember he said expletive to his boss. He said, and I quote, "Odds I put my boss in a blender? High." Yeah. Um, again, hasn't responded to what she said. Still not saying why he sent this to her. Just threatens his boss, sends a message about implicating her in a crime, and then, uh, and then yeah. But, um, here's the thing about Rochelle, right? And this is why I'm saying, I said early on, this is why she should have never messaged him in the first place. This isn't her fault. I'm just saying this is a lesson is like, they don't hit you up, don't hit them up. Because she's like, oh, like even after all the red flags are clearly in her face, she goes, I don't think your boss can fit in a blender, silly.

I'm like, girl, girl, this— no, we're not playing along with this.

She did, she did, she did. Yeah. And do you know what he said next?

I don't know. No, he didn't.

He never responded.

Oh my God.

Listen, she's never heard from him again. So to recap one more time, doesn't message her back till the next day, sends a legal recording with a threat to his boss, and then never responds to her again.

I feel confident that I have hung out with enough software engineers and I have listened to or watched or read enough true crime to know that this guy is an anomaly. I don't know.

I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced. I'm not convinced, but I don't think it's a software engineer thing. It might just be a, like, there's just some people who are like this. I can't— Give me nonsense.

Serial killer.

I've dated software engineers and I've gotten narcissist serial killer vibes too, so I can say that was in the Valley. Yeah, so I don't know, like, not all software engineers are the same, but this is definitely a— and it's actually funny if you go on like TikTok and Instagram, like, there's jokes about these types of people, and it's true, they exist, where I think that bubble, the tech bubble, and like how much capital is involved and how much people get paid. Like they be, they like have these weird kind of perspective or very different perspectives on things and like they're an immense amount of privilege. So there's like stuff online where it's, I can't afford a house. All I do is work. All I do is make $510K at Google. And I have an Airbnb at Tahoe that I own and I also have another house in thing, but I can't have a house that I live in, you know what I mean? Feeling like sorry for themselves, but they're actually like— or there's like jokes about dating someone with $600K tech job and they ask to split the bill. That's like a meme that goes around. It's very viral.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Um, oh my God though, I am still— I'm sorry, I can't believe Rochelle not only answered that but played along with it and then called him silly.

No, girl, she wanted a man for real. Maybe he makes $500K at Google and she was like, I'll look the other way a little bit.

Well, cause there must be something because I was thinking—

I'll be the Bonnie to your Clyde.

She's already implicated, but I was thinking like you said the date ended on a weird tone and then she texted him or messaged him and was like, I had fun. I'm like, did you? Yeah. There's more to that story, but wow.

Yeah, that's, that's a Rochelle thing she should go figure out. But what's funny about this is she never hears about it from him again. And this is all her stories from like a TikTok, Rochelle and Tech Talk. And she has vowed to never date software engineers again. Like she just won't. So she blamed it on, on us people who code. I've only done it once, sent illegal tape recordings and did it as a voice message. No, just kidding. I thought after a date, after a date, I've only done that like one time. How dare she? No, it's, this is a nuts. Story. There's actually a lot of stories that are weird like this, unfortunately, revolving around software engineers. I'm like, what? Why would you? I don't know. This almost feels like she's getting like evidence for like where he was at like a certain time. This just feels like icky. I'd nope out of there.

It's so scary.

Would I tell all of my friends about this? Absolutely.

1000%.

I'd probably be like FaceTiming someone and listening to the voice message. Yeah. Thinking that was hilarious.

I wouldn't have gone through that 8-minute voice message alone. Like I said earlier, I would've been like, I need somebody else to hear this with me. I'm scared.

That's so weird. 8 minutes, like after a first date?

That's, it's, it was a choice. It was a choice and it was the wrong one.

And then he never responded again.

Do you think, oh my gosh. Yeah, I need to know what happened to him, but we're not gonna know.

We're not gonna know.

Listen, if you are listening to this podcast and you know someone who has considered putting their boss in a blender. My God.

Yeah. Who says that?

This person's in jail, probably, right? Like, actually, that's probably the answer. They're not—

they're not calling the police. Can you imagine reporting this crime?

Wouldn't it be the first time we've threatened to do that on the podcast?

We're lowkey snitches.

Yeah.

For this?

Absolutely.

For sure. I say that all the time. I'll be like, I'm not going to jail for any of you.

Yeah, you do say that a lot.

I say that probably way more than I should. Everybody's like, nobody asked for you to do that. I'm just like, no.

Nobody's even doing anything remotely illegal and Jasmine just says, I'm not going to jail for any of you. She's just thinking about it though. She needs to make sure everybody knows we're not that close. She's setting firm boundaries.

We should put a, we need a quote book between the two of us at this point. Cause that, that one needs to go in there. Without context, like, it sounds insane.

It does sound really bad.

Oh man. With that, I'm glad we ended that one.

For sharing.

Um, you're welcome.

I feel like, yeah, software engineers need some help in the dating world.

Maybe. Yeah.

That's just not, that wasn't it, man. That's not, and he needs a therapist. Okay. That's fine.

They might both need them. Yeah. I think they both do. Yeah. Therapy's great. But the first date kind of hit a little, but then again, he said, I should have known. You know what the first, the first red flag was? Mm-hmm. So you both had to bring snacks? Yeah, where's— you should be bringing me snacks, you're taking me out.

What do you mean?

Yeah, that's crazy. I still probably would have brought snacks, but I shouldn't have had— like, you, you're planning the date, that's crazy.

Yeah, not only should he have been like, I'm bringing snacks, do you have any dietary restrictions? What's your favorite food?

Facts. Did you even know I don't eat dairy? Yeah, like, that's wild.

It's just not that hard.

And at a park. Yeah, I don't know. I don't know.

I don't know.

Yeah, I don't think I'd say yes to that date, although I would like the presentation part. I will say I'd be down to do that. Bring presentation dates, dates in. That was like the best part of this guy's whole personality. But it sounded like he just wanted someone to listen to him.

Clearly didn't even answer her text and just sent 8 minutes worth of I wanna know about her presentation.

Yeah. She does not wanna talk about.

That's the real mystery. What was that about?

I don't know. But clearly she said like he seemed really prepared, so she didn't put nearly as much effort.

Yeah.

Wow.

It's for the, it's for the best this didn't work out.

Wow. I don't know. Maybe she would've learned a lot about California history. Guy obviously seems like a catch. Not a lot about blenders though, and how those work.

He doesn't know that you can't put a human in. Anyways, let's moving on.

Well, yeah. Wow.

I feel like I might have nightmares about that for some reason.

Not about coding. Yeah, not about coding. About that. You're welcome.

That's worse. Okay. Have a great day.

See you, Allison.

See ya.

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