This FAANG ruined my family

Take the job. It's okay.

Yeah, like, it's fine. Just get a new family in California or something. You don't need those. I'm just kidding.

That's what happens when you, when you go to San Francisco and Silicon Valley. You can get a new family if you want to. You're listening to Off the VPN, the show where two work besties get real about working in tech.

Can I just start by saying Happy Jellyversary. Do you know, do y'all know that Allison and I have been working— well, she has been working at this place for 6 years?

Well, we both have been.

We have both been doing it. This is about you. I almost made it about me because that's what I do that sometimes.

But why don't we make it about us?

No, today is your Jellyversary. Allison has dedicated her life for 6 years. She has dedicated 6 years in the pursuit of helping engineering leaders become more effective and have more visibility and understanding into engineering so that leading engineering and being an engineer in those organizations sucks a little bit less.

Yes, I have. I have indeed. It both feels like a very long time and a short amount of time. I don't know if you felt that when you hit You were 6 years, like 2 weeks, 3 weeks ago, 4 weeks ago, like 4, a month ago.

I don't even remember what today is.

You were waiting for me for a whole month to join this company. I did. I did.

I was so excited. I remember talking about it. Part of Allison and I were part of the first women to join the company. And when we were joining, I was told there was another woman being like added and things like that. So there was like this like person that I knew was gonna come and join, and I never really had the opportunity to work with many female engineers.

I was excited.

We were like around the same age, like we had like similar like backgrounds and stuff. Well, not backgrounds, but like we had similar like stuff. So I was just excited to know like she was joining and like in my head I'm like, either we're gonna be like besties, like just best of friends, or mortal enemies. And so I, like, it lived rent-free in my mind for like a month before Allison joined. I knew she was coming and I remember talking about it, being like, I'm like, I'm excited. And then when she joined, I was the most awkward person. But we never became mortal enemies. No, which is great. We kicked it off right away, which is great.

The awkwardness only matched my awkward energy as like one normally has on their first day of work. I think I remember like knocking on the door to the office because it was like such a weird office setup. I was never familiar with something like that where I was like, why is it shut? Like, why is the entryway shut? I literally was like, hello? It was like very funny. But listen, here we are, work besties, 6 years in. Look at us.

Insane.

Insane.

We should have a work bestieversary or something. That we should celebrate.

I was gonna say, what day would that be? I was like, it's probably the day we met, which is my—

I feel like we should pick another event that happened. We should go— I'm gonna look at our Slack and find out the first time we like sent like eyeballs emojis or something. Like, you gotta find like a day and we're gonna put it on the calendar. Actually, I'm gonna invite everybody to show up to our work bestieversary. The entire company. I'll be like, did you bring it? We didn't go. We take it off. We tell everybody like we're taking it. It's a jellyfish holiday, actually.

Write it to the company calendar. Oh my gosh.

I'll be like, did you guys get us gifts? It's gonna be like a— I feel like, I feel like if we put a little effort into this, we could somehow make it a thing.

Listen, for 7, let's do it. Year 7. Why not? Like, at that, at that point, everybody pretty much understands who we are and like what we stand for. No one would be surprised.

Is that not weird? It's like, you know, when kids have like joint birthday parties? That's what we're gonna do.

We're gonna have a joint Jellyversary for year 7, but like we're grown-ass adults and it's like really not cute in any way, shape, or form. And it's just like, wow, these two should really like get Live.

Listen, I'm trying to get a spa gift cards. I'll be like, entry fee to this party is a spa gift card in Allison or I's name.

You know what, if we got enough people to show up, we could, we could go to those like resort, like spa resorts for like a full week.

I like, I like where this is going.

Okay, well, we'll do that right after this. Back to off the VPN where we have really good ideas for the—

the ideas keep coming.

They just, they just flow. They just flow. You get the service in a room and oh my gosh, you have 10, 10 new ideas leaving that room. Just— I'm not saying they're all good, they're not all bangers, but you have ideas.

So I am an ideas guy.

Well, let's pivot hard here. We're going to talk about opposition. Yeah, yeah. We're going to be talking about competition and family. Are you ready for it?

I love competition. Well, I don't like being in it, but I like watching. I like as an observer.

We are going to observe. So let's go. Today's story centers around a pair of twins. We will call them Julian and Ava.

Julian and Ava. Yeah, little Julian.

I was like, there's nicknames coming here.

And ava, it's like avada kedavra. Yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna say, like ava kadabra.

Okay, again, I will not be saying those for the duration of this episode, but you do you. So this story is going to be from Julian's perspective, so keep that in mind. We have one side of the story, as we always do. But with siblings and sibling rivalry, I feel like that's even more important to keep in mind. Okay, so both Ava and Julian are seniors in college studying computer science, and they are at an Ivy League university. Great for them. Oh wow, actually they're taking similar classes, they're learning the same foundations.

Obviously the same Ivy League. Yes, university. Oh my God.

Yes.

Brutal.

I mean, literally. Yeah, literally. So they're taking all, like, most of the same classes, although, like, you know, you know how it goes. You can pick different electives, different, like, focuses, like, all of that stuff. But it's the same degree, same university. Despite that, though, their paths over the past few years have actually been quite different. Let's start with Julian. He has been extremely focused on career stuff since the very beginning. Every single summer he's had an internship lined up. So freshman year internship was at Amazon. Sophomore year internship was at Google. Junior year it was at McKinsey. Julian has also participated in scientific research while at the university. Basically his resume is stacked, right? Ava, on the other hand, took a different approach. First summer, she took a trip to Europe. And as for other breaks, according to her brother, she has been doing lots of partying. Summer, summer trip to Europe beats a year at Amazon, in my opinion. Imagine all the things and experiences that she had. At one point, Julian tried to nudge his sister, encouraging her to think about career stuff. But she shut him down real fast. Ava said the Ivy League name would do all the heavy lifting. And on top of that, she was like, I don't need advice from you. And she called him a lowlife nerd. I'm like, that's, uh, that's sibling life for you.

What is sibling life? I, I feel like me and my My brother don't speak like that to each other.

Well, I feel like I don't. So I have a sister, so this is an entirely different dynamic, and we are 3 years apart. Like, I, I don't know, but I feel like I know siblings who are like this.

Calling a lowlife nerd is insane.

Like, I feel like you can almost hear it as like, like playful, like, oh, you lowlife nerd, not like actually mean. But who knows?

I feel like the word lowlife makes it not nice. I think calling him a nerd would have been— think, call him a lowlife.

Yeah, that's true. That's very fair.

Listen, she's— she's— I think people take two different paths. They like work really hard in school and then like chill afterwards, and there's people who don't work as hard and then they, they chill during school and then they work hard after. I've seen it, like everyone ends up in the same place in the end, but like I was the one where I was definitely a lowlife nerd. I didn't do— I had no social life. Um, but we'll see, we'll see. I have a feeling he'll come up on top, but that's a— that would be crazy if he doesn't. I'd be pissed.

And she's like, actually, the Ivy League main did carry me. And like, she gets all these— we'll find out. Shall we get to it?

Yeah, I don't think it'll work quite like that. But she'll be okay.

She'll be okay. But you're absolutely right, it's not gonna work that way. But there's a, there's a bit of a twist. There's a bit of twist in this. Okay, okay. So Julian tries to give advice, she doesn't want it. He's like, whatever, I'm gonna drop it. It's her life, her decisions. Now we get to senior year and people are starting to think more seriously about plans for after graduation. People are starting to apply for jobs, and Ava among those people hits a wall. She's not hearing back from the places she's applying to, or she's interviewing early stage and is getting one rejection after another.

So, got an internship, girl. Ava, Avacadavra.

Yep. But at this point, she goes to her brother and asks for help, and Julian is not like, I told you so. Julian is like, For sure. Let me help.

So he didn't say, oh, you want advice from this lowlife nerd?

Well, he might have. He just didn't tell us that. But for sure, he was probably thinking it if he didn't say it. So whatever. Julian hops in. He's willing. He's like, let's do your resume. Even though in his head he's like, this is thin. There are no internships. There's no projects. The one thing she has listed for experience, Julian is like, this is literally fake. It was an internship at their dad's company. Yeah, but while all this is happening, Julian's trying to help her. He's applying to jobs too, naturally. And this is where things get tricky. Ava, they applied to the same job. We're getting there. Ava gives Julian Her brother, just as a reminder, a list of companies she wants to apply to and tells him, you cannot apply to these jobs.

Oh, girl, what'd she pick? Do we know?

Just imagine.

Can you imagine just be like, yeah, you can't apply to Google because I'm doing that.

That is exactly, that is exactly the perfect example because we are going to be discussing Google.

And first of all, First of all, like, I get the idea of like not wanting to go to the same place because they clearly need time apart, but like, Google's a— it employs a lot of people. Like, you're gonna be all right. Yeah, that's kind of crazy.

Does Google have— you can go to Seattle, you can go to New York.

But also, good luck getting through that interview process. Like, you don't even have experience yet. She might, she might, she might absolutely crush it. Maybe she's— but I sincerely doubt it without—

he said he doesn't—

she doesn't even have projects. Like, right, you kind of need to have— you need to be on your Zoom for that, you know?

Yeah. And listen, I'm rooting for everyone in this situation, but I also think Julian raised some good points. He was clearly tapped in very early into like, what does it take to get to a company like Google or Amazon or whatever it is? So she gives Julian this list. Julian, you can't apply to these companies. And he's like, no. Ava escalates from here. What do you think that means?

Call— time to call mom and dad.

Time to call mom and dad. Ew.

They're like full-blown adults, right? Mom and dad in this. Crazy.

I know. She brings in the parents and they actually agree with Ava. And Julian is like, what on earth is happening? Like, I've worked my ass off. Like, are you kidding me? And so he quietly just applies to all of the companies that he wants to apply to anyway, because of course his friends do. Yeah. Some amount of time passes and Julian gets a job offer. Was this company on Ava's do not apply list for Julian? Of course it was. It was Google. And Google extends Julian an offer. When he tells his family, things blow up.

What?

Mm-hmm.

I want to know if she applied and like she got through.

Next sentence.

That'd be crazy.

Turns out Ava had also applied to Google and apparently had gotten through a few rounds. But then was recently rejected.

Okay, so what's the problem?

Apparently the parents are livid. They tell Julian that he's greedy, that he's a spoiled brat, that he had so many options and he didn't have to, quote, ruin his sister's life. Ew.

What?

Yeah, yeah.

And I'm like, I mean, it's literally reversed because it's like Ava is the one who's like being like very like— girl, what's the word— like she owns everything, serving, entitled. She's so— she's being incredibly entitled. And also just like, first of all, parents shouldn't even be like involving themselves in this. They are full adults. Like, mind your business. Like, this is great, just celebrate your kids and be like, I'm staying out of it, it's between you two.

Exactly.

Like, the fact they're taking a side and saying this, like, we should be celebrating the fact that he got through a very lucrative interview process and nailed a really good job at like one of the biggest tech companies.

Yeah.

One of the most literally well-known companies, like a FAANG company. Yes. And you're saying she couldn't even swing it. She couldn't even get through the interview process and we're mad at him. That's crazy.

Yeah, it's really upsetting, honestly. And Julian just keeps being like, whatever you keep saying, like, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna take this job. Like, like I'm just good. Which is like probably a really hard thing to do. But like, you know, he has worked clearly very hard for this and like, yeah, deserves it. So things get so heated in the moment when they're all arguing that they actually tell him to leave the house. They're like, go on a walk, get out of here. That I was like, what are we doing?

Oh my gosh.

And then his parents call him like while he's not in the house, begging him to reject the offer. They were like, someone with your background, your skills, you will get an offer anywhere. Why? Don't do this to your sister. Like, step aside. And Julian is just like, what do you mean? Like, she got rejected already. Like, I think they were telling themselves this narrative that like they rejected her so they could accept him. Like, make it sound as if—

That's not how it works.

Right, that's not how it works. And like, so somehow him rejecting the offer, they would go back to her and be like, just kidding. We'd like to have you on board. That's just not how anything happens.

Yeah, and even if it did, he won, should have got our game up. Yep, period. Like, yeah, he worked, he worked for that.

He worked hard for that.

He literally worked for it, had a goal in mind, accomplished it.

Mhm.

And sorry, he'll be laughing on his Google salary in a like, this, this won't even matter.

It won't. You know what, best case scenario is that Ava reapplies. I feel like there's— I think there's like a waiting period.

They're just gonna both end up in Google.

Well, then everyone's just like sipping their lemonade on their rocking chairs, hahaha, like every water under the bridge, it's fine. But we don't know. I don't know where this goes. But what I do know is that all of the family stuff and everything they were saying to him left that like the outcome of all this is like Julian is sitting here like, did I do something wrong?

Julian, no. Yeah, I love that he like— but I, I wonder how much of it he could have just like been upfront about. But it seems like these people are not incredibly reasonable, so there's really nothing he could do. I'm glad he didn't not apply, right? Like, that was good. Like They weren't really thinking about his wellbeing here. It's what he wanted, who cares?

And I think something that, I don't know, kind of stuck out to me is the parents saying, "Someone with your background will get offers anywhere." Which like, maybe, like maybe that's true, but like the job market has actually only become more and more and more competitive. As impressive as Julian is with all of his internships and Ivy League degree all of that, like there's a bunch of other people who are equally, if not more impressive for doing other things. There are people starting companies at like 19, like whatever, 12 years old, like who knows?

Yeah.

Right. And so of course he does have a stacked resume and a stacked ex— like set of experiences, but at the same time it's like, it's been kind of, it's been kind of brutal out there. So I wouldn't take that for granted basically.

Right. Yeah. He's given an opportunity. You should take it.

Mm-hmm.

It's really like simple and it's, you're fresh out of college. Like that's a big deal to start with that. Just to recap, like imagine being in that thought of being like, I don't need to do any internships. I'm gonna party while my brother is taking internship every summer. He's working, maybe like working at the same time he's in school. He's working double hours while trying to do stuff. And she's living the time of her life, which, you know, that was her choice, that's fine. But like, no, and being like, I'm gonna have— this is gonna be like a cakewalk, and being like, you can dictate what he can or cannot do after he's been very focused all those years. That just comes from such a place of privilege and entitlement that you think that you can come out without doing any work just be like, I'm in this Ivy League school, I could pick whatever job I want, and I'm gonna tell you, you can't do that one because I want it, right? What makes you feel, feel like you can have that and they can't? That's crazy.

I know, I know.

This one, I can't even wrap my head around it.

Oh no, this one was so interesting to me because I feel like a lot of the stories that we end up discussing, there's like, yeah, we could see this side, we could see that side, we could see this other side. We don't have all the details, which is still true, we don't have all the details here, but I have a really hard time, given the details we do have, really understanding Ava's position towards her brother on this one. Just like, "Julian, you did the right thing. Take the job. It's okay." Yeah.

Like, "It's fine. Just get a new family in California or something. You don't need them." I'm just kidding.

That's what happens when you go to San Francisco and Silicon Valley. You can get a new family if you want to.

They could buy one with that salary.

You should get adopted by a tech CEO.

Yeah, exactly, exactly. That's insanity. Oh my gosh, I'm curious of where she ends up going. Oh man, with my Ivy League degree. Yeah, what am I to do? I couldn't get a Google girl with no experience, not a lick of experience. That is Sanity.

I can't.

I can't.

Yeah, yeah, it's rough, it's rough. But listen, we don't know what happens to her. Maybe she hard pivoted. Maybe she's living in Europe and it's just like Emily in Paris. For all we know, she's fine, she's okay, she's gonna be just fine. Yeah, like you said, there's the opportunity to work hard during college as you're approaching your career, or You don't, but then you, you sort of switch, and then you become a really, really hard worker. And maybe you apply it to the thing you studied, or maybe you apply it to a different thing. But either way, like, should probably be fine. Her parents enable the shit out of her, and that's kind of a problem, but that's fine. We're not here to discuss family dynamics.

No, no, no, no. Among many other things that we try to discuss, like the Olympics and Which reminds me, Allison, I know you've been working really hard, but I can't let you, uh, work on this next project, you know, because— Yeah. Just thought I'd let you know. Um, here is a list of projects you can't work on. I know you've been like studying up on AI and how it works. I, but I wanna do that. So sorry, you can't do those things.

I think if we both made a list of projects that we were like, you can't work on this for each other, we would just realize that we were going to work on those things together.

No, that's what I was thinking. I'm like, I'd literally be like, work on this with me.

We're like the opposite. We're like, we're gonna co-interview at Google together and be like, we're like this, you have to take both of us, package deal.

Yeah, that could not be us, but you know what, yeah, shout out to Julian.

Shout out to Julian.

Shout out to Julian. I hope he's living his life. Yeah. Yeah. Thanks for listening to Off the VPN.

If you have any juicy tech stories or some burning questions that need answering, visit jellyfish.co/offthevpn to share them with us.

We want to spill them on Off the VPN. And don't worry, we'll keep it on the DL.