A Podcasters Review Of Podcon - The Podcast Report

That was the part that was really amazing, was just watching people meet them, and it was like they were meeting giant rock stars. And I was like, this again. I've seen people that have approached Pat Flynn and John Lee Dumas, and they're like, man, thank you so much. I really love your show. But this was like almost shaking kind of thing, like, physically, because again, they're a little younger maybe, but they were literally like, oh, my gosh. And you can see their arms and their hands shaking, like, I can't believe I'm talking to you kind of thing. And I was like, that's amazing. That was pretty cool. You are listening to the podcast report with Paul Colligan. Here's Paul.

In 2010, I attended a little conference called VidCon. It was in Anaheim. It was by the Green brothers, and it was supposed to bring content producers and the audience together. I figured it'd be a good time. I love going to the first of shows. I went, I was blown away. And the first thing I thought, really just a few minutes into the whole event, was, oh, my goodness, when is Podcon going to happen? Podcon happened last year in December 2017. I set up as a sponsor. There was a great crowdfunding campaign. I wanted to be there. There was just something else that came up. It was a hard decision, but it's something I needed to do. Great thing is, Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting was able to attend, and I got him on the show to give us his review of podcon. I think you'll find it insightful. I think you'll find it encouraging. And it's both about the business of podcasting as well as the growth of podcasting and where this industry is going to. So let's get to the interview with Dave. But first, the tip of the week. The world of connected speakers is fascinating. Amazon in the game. Google in the game. Facebook coming in the game. Microsoft in the game. We hear rumors that Sony and others are coming into the game. Getting a podcast on the connected speaker is obviously something we want, but here's the thing that we might not have thought of. Do you have a title for a podcast that's easy to say out loud? Do you have a title for a podcast that doesn't sound like similar podcasts out there? These connected devices, no matter how smart they may seem, no matter how cool they seem, they're not perfect. And the better chance you give them to hear the name of your podcast that doesn't have any others that sound like it, the better chance that your customer is going to be able to find you on the connected device of their choice. And let's face it, if they try once and it doesn't work, the chances of them coming back are pretty bad. If they try a second time, you know, that's obedient. That is a lovely. That is an ideal audience member. But, boy, if that doesn't work a second time, it's not going to happen again. Design a show that is easy to say. Design a show that you can say out loud and the connected speaker will pick up and you will get some of that gorgeous audience that's coming fast. So I'm on the Skype line with Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting. I have known Dave forever, basically. I have loved Dave forever. And I'm not ashamed to say it, basically. And this last month, something happened that was interesting. I was supposed to go to the podcon event. For those of you don't know, podcon, podcon is an event that I've actually been dreaming about for about five or six years. You've probably heard of VidCon. VidCon, the show that blows out the Anaheim Convention center every year. That's the biggest thing in video marketing. I actually went to Pod Vidcon 1 and it was fantastic. Made some great connections with Google. Loved the show, loved the groove. Jim Lauterbach did the keynote. It was a fantastic time. And one of the first notes I wrote was, you know, when's there going to be a podcon? Lo and behold, five, six years later, whatever it is, they put the thing on Indiegogo. They raised the money. I put up the money to be a sponsor. I wanted the how to Podcast book to be a sponsor. I also just wanted to give these guys the great thumbs. And unfortunately, something else came up that was slightly bigger in scope and in size, and I needed to do it. It was an existing client. Although there was some regret, there was some disappointment in missing podcon. Now, here's the cool thing. Dave Jackson went. Dave Jackson went because Libsyn sent him. And I trust Dave and I love Dave, gosh darn it. And so Dave does the shows, Dave does all the big podcasting events. The poor guy was kind of there at the end of the New Media Expo. You know, he goes to the Pod Fests, he goes to local events, he goes to the podcast movements. He went to podcon. So I asked him today if he'd come on the show and give us his review of podcons. So this intro was way too long, but Dave welcome to the show, buddy.

Thanks for having me, buddy.

So podcon. A nice boy from the Midwest gets on a plane for Seattle, probably ingests a lot more substances just in the air over there than you probably get normally where you are. You make it to downtown Seattle, the wacky area that it is, you go to podcon and you see cosplay. Talk to me.

Yeah, that was something that I'd heard about. I've never been to a Dragon Con or a Comic Con, so this is my first experience with cosplay and nobody told me there was going to be cosplay. So when you're standing in, it's a really huge place where they're holding it. It's floors upon floors upon floors of all these people. And all of a sudden you see somebody go by with elf ears and a witch's hat and you'll see another person that's supposed to be kind of a knight in shining armor, but it's a knight in shining tinfoil that when you're not expecting that, it kind of catches you off guard. But what was interesting about it is there are bubbles. I've always known there have been different bubbles in podcasting. There's, you know, I hang out in the podcast about podcasting bubble, and we all argue about hosting and microphones and things like that, but this was fiction podcasts. You know, welcome to Night Vale and Travis and Justin McElroy. And I've never heard of any of these people. And Hank Green. And it was interesting because I go into the, the first kind of opening keynote and they bring all the rock stars, and I mean, rock stars on the stage. You would have thought Paul McCartney was on there or whoever. And they asked them all, like, I think the question was, what was the weirdest job you had growing up? And they, everybody, you know, I did pizza, I did this and that. And they get to the end and this one guy looks up and says, youth pastor. And the crowd goes bonkers, like it's the world's biggest inside joke. And I mean, literally, people are getting out of their chairs laughing, they're holding their sides, they're just. And I was like, I'm the old dude in the back and I have no clue what anybody's laughing about. So it's one of those where it's a super tight knit community of which I was just not part of. In fact, I didn't even know it existed. I'd heard of it.

Now, how big, how big is this community? Because you said floor upon floor.

Yeah, we're talking a good thousand people are in this room. I mean, it looks like a Bon Jovi concert. Three giant screens going across three different stages. And I'm in the back and it's, you know, you're kind of like, wow, that guy's about, you know, 6 inches tall from where I'm standing. I'm glad they have the screens and just wall to wall people. And what was interesting is in going from the main hall to like where the vendors were, you would see where all of a sudden you'd see literally 100 people in costumes and they're all like, ooh, how'd you make your robe? How did you. That's a cool sword. And one person had like some sort of wheel that you would spin. I mean, they really went all out. And that's when I went, not only is this a super tight community and very passionate, obviously, to go through all this work to get dressed up, I mean, they were. There was not somebody there in that little group that was like half in. These people were all in. And I remember I was there with Chris Komitzos from podfest. He was checking it out and Chris said, yeah, it'd be cool if I could get to meet one of the McElroys. And this little, little. Well, this young lady was standing there, she goes, oh, we all would. That would be like. It was, you know, so it was, for me, it was very eye opening, the fact that, wow, this is a whole other area of podcasting that obviously has been thriving, but I had never heard of it or I never really stepped my toe in the water. So it was kind of, to me, I kind of felt like I was in the wizard of Oz where you go from black and white to color, and all of a sudden you're like, hey, look at this. So. And it was a very creative group, number one, much younger. We're talking, you know, 20, 30 year old people, very super creative. They had one wall where you just grabbed a Sharpie and drew whatever you want. And there were some very interesting drawings and you could make a flyer for a podcast that didn't exist. And on wall they were all playing some sort of board games. I don't know if it was D and D or what, but a very tight knit group of people that, you know, I'd never personally had ever heard of. And then they had signings. Some of these people, like Hank Green, I think, was doing a book signing as well, just like a meet and greet. And they had to have a raffle to see if you could Be one of the 300 people to wait in line to meet him. And that's when I went, that's a new kind of fame. That's. You know. Of course he's coming from YouTube, but it was a case where when you have to have a raffle to see who can win, to wait in line, I'm like, that's pretty interesting.

Okay, so a couple things here. This is good, Dave. Thanks. Number one, a thousand people. That's obviously your estimate. That's not the official number. And I'll see if we can look it up and put in the show notes what the official number is. But have you ever been to a podcast show where the first show was a thousand people?

I would say New Media Expo when it's not. I'm sorry, let's back that up a second. I would say podcast movement, like two years ago, because I remember last year, I think they're opening keynote.

But two years ago wasn't. Two years ago wasn't number two years ago was number two. It just did its fourth.

Okay, so I'm trying to think, because I know last year they had, like, their opening keynote in the middle of the day, and that was a little different. But it's. Most of them are. No, not. You know, it's close. But this. This was like you walked in, you went, whoa, there's a lot of people in here, so. And I missed last year's. That's the fun thing. Now that I work for Libsyn, I'm standing in a booth instead of watching the keynotes now at the podcast movement.

So a new area of podcast you never heard of. Now you run the school of podcasting. Ton of podcasting stuff there. You run, you know, tech support at Libsyn, a ton of podcasting stuff there. Here's a thing that gets a thousand people to go to Seattle. You've never heard of it. What does that say to you about just podcasting and the scope and the size of this world?

It's just a whole lot bigger than we thought it was. I mean, I'd heard of welcome to Night Vale. I've heard of Lore, because Lore is on Amazon now. It's been turned into a TV show. So I've heard of them, but I just had no idea of. It's like somebody who's like, 13, and here's something about the Beatles, and then they find out later that there was Beatlemania, and it was just gigantic and people were fainting. It was kind of the same thing. I was like, yeah, I'VE heard of welcome to Night Vale. And. And then when you see people that are just so tuned in, I was like, oh, I had no idea. So, yeah, it's obviously much bigger than at least I knew of. And I knew where they, these little niches and things of that nature. But this was, like I said, it was very eye opening.

Now, let's talk young. You mentioned young. You know, all the, you know, prognosticators that I read say, you know, the kids today, they don't have time for podcasting. They're in the, you know, video only, you know, YouTube only, they're in Instagram, they're in Snapchat. You know, they don't have time to sit down and plug into long form content. Their ears did you see differently?

Absolutely. And what was interesting is they were all like, some of them were dressed up as their favorite characters and it was one of those situations where I would be kind of the fly on the wall listening to them talk to each other. And I had no clue what they were talking. It was like a different language because they're talking about a different type. Oh, that's. That must be a Grundor. No, no, no, that was such and such and no, that was in the, that was in the second season. And then. And I was like, I have no idea what these people were talking about. So that was interesting. The other thing that was there that you don't, at least in the past, you didn't see a lot of was female. The audience was, if not a little slanted more towards female. There were a lot of young females there that were really into. So that was something that was also that I was like, this is not the days of podcast movement where it's a bunch of guys fighting over microphone.

So didn't know what they were talking about. Dave Jackson, king of podcast and goes to a podcast event and he doesn't know the language. How'd that make you feel?

Old, number one, I feel very old. And just the fact that I was outside of this loop and it's not really so much a bad thing because in the same way that if I started talking about, you know, sample rates and exporting at kilobits per second and let's talk about RSS feeds. They look at me like, what? It's just, that's not my niche and that's not my community at this point. But I was just so impressed with how tight knit they were, how open they were to helping each other, how creative they were. And that was the thing that was Impressive is they would come up and I would talk to them. I was like, so tell me, like, what character are you? Oh, I'm so and so from this and this podcast and this and that. And I go, and I quit asking, do you have a podcast? I said, are you a content creator? Because some of them were doing things on YouTube and some of them were, you know, doing, I'm a writer, I'm a blogger, and things like that. But a lot of them were saying, now that they see these people doing podcasting, they're all like, I'm thinking of doing one. My friend and I might do one. It's going to be sci fi meets, you know, mystery meets such and such. And they're all these hodgepodge. I don't know if that's the right word, but it's just mashup, I think.

Is what the kids are saying these days.

Yeah, it's a mashup of all these different genres that I. And I'm like, okay, I've never thought of putting that together. Chocolate covered fish sticks. You know what? I might have to try that. So when you hear things, that. That's the part that I think is going to be exciting, because the original folks that got into podcasting, we're all like, I want to sound like the radio. These people are. Now they have a whole different. The people that are inspiring to start aren't coming from the radio. Especially in this genre, it's all about theater of the mind and sound effects and stories that you can't get other places. So I'll be really interested to see where these people then take it and then stretch it to a whole new area that we haven't even thought about.

So is this exciting to you that podcasting is in these places? You didn't know? Is it kind of something that you just always assumed? Does it change your perspective of the industry? Does it change maybe something you're doing at either tech support at Libsyn or at the School of Podcasting? I mean, what impact does this have on, for lack of a better term, our part of the industry?

Well, for me, it's exciting because it would be like if I was out in the woods and there's all sorts of rocks around me, and I flip over a rock and there's this giant diamond, and I'm like, whoa, look at this giant diamond. Now I look around and I see all the rocks and I'm like, oh, wait a minute, there might be other diamonds out here. I just have to flip over the rock. So When I find this giant community that I'd only heard of, thought it was kind of like a unicorn, maybe I've never seen it, and I stumble across it, I'm like, whoa, this is huge. I'm super excited because if I found that one community, that means there are other communities that I haven't stumbled across either. So we're probably a lot bigger than we think we are. But on the other hand, those people that I talked to, there were so many that hadn't started a podcast, or again, if they're coming from YouTube, they're now discovering, hey, I can actually listen to these things as well. So I think we're getting both potential content creators and we're also getting more listeners. And right now, not that we don't need more content creators, but I think what we really need are more listeners. More. I think we need a bigger audience to stay in scale with the amount of podcasts that are being created. So that was the part that, for me is to be kind of excited. The fact that we hear the Edison Research and whatever it is, 30, 40% people listen to a podcast a month. When I see this, I'm like, okay, that number is definitely going to go up now.

And let's be honest here. Of all the people dressing up as their favorite podcasters, how many John Lee Dumas did you see?

Yeah, not a single one. This was all, you know, the, the people that were running it, they were all Tim.

Were they Tim Ferriss?

Nope. No. Tim Ferriss? No. Pat Flynns?

Mike Hyatt?

Nope.

Pat Flynn?

No.

Stelzner?

No. It was, you know, the, the McElroy's that. That name came up over and over and over. And then some of the people in cosplay were, oh, I'm from Welco. This and that. And yeah, so it was these. And I'm telling you, when these people got announced to come on stage or they'd say, please welcome to the stage, you know, Joseph Fink, the crowd would go nuts. Like, it's. I don't know, insert favorite star here. You know, it's Taylor Swift.

No, no, we had some big stars, you know, and I don't make this us versus them, but. But I really want to. You're painting a really interesting picture here of what? A different. Same tech, different culture. You know, we've had some rock stars come on stage. I mean, we had Sarah Koenigs from Serial, you know, the company to put podcasting on the map. You know, she got a lot of applause. You know, that level of applause Are we talking. What are we talking here?

No, I would say more because this was, like, the one thing I did when Hank Green was on a panel and I sat towards the front. And what I did is when it was over, I went and stood by the door because literally, these guys were almost escorted in, almost like bodyguards kind of thing, because they would get mobbed. And so thank you so much for coming. The panel's over. They walk down the steps, they're on the floor, and they're instantly. The exit is almost blocked. And to watch people just fanboy out or fan girl out, like, oh, my gosh, I've loved you for so long, and thank you so much. And just. I have to tell you what you've meant for my life. That just happened over and over and over. So I would say it was, you know, I don't know that Sarah Koenig, like, changed people's lives. She made a really good story come to life. But these are. People are like, no, no, you've changed my life. You've given me purpose in life, and you've helped me, you know, whatever. That was. The part that was really amazing was just watching people meet them, and it was like they were meeting giant rock stars. And I was like, this again. I. I've seen people that have approached Pat Flynn and John Lee Dumas, and they're like, man, thank you so much. I really love your show. But this was, like, almost shaking kind of thing, like, physically, because, again, they're a little younger maybe, but they were literally like, oh, my gosh. And you can see their arms and their hands shaking, like, I can't believe I'm talking to you kind of thing. And I was like, that's amazing. That was pretty cool.

So for the industry, you know, I am on the quest, the show that I bring the client to. You know, it seems like each show sort of has its good and it's bad, and no shows perfect. You know, is this a show that business folk. I mean, this is the podcast report. This is the real business of podcasting. Is this an event, a show that business folks should go to, or is this just a, you know, a fanboy dress up as your favorite or can, you know, enjoy some green time? I mean, is. Is there the business of podcasting this? They did a couple of presentations. I don't know if you stood in on me, but they did stuff on. Doing a show. They did stuff on. They had some really interesting topics. Part of the whole fundraising bit was they invited us in on all of the planning. Sessions. So I got to watch them. And their big desire was not to do the microphone shootout, not to do the thing that everybody else does, but they tried to do some. The business of podcasting stuff. Did you catch any?

I did.

Is that this event or is this something different?

No, I taught. I caught a couple because I was there to see how many, you know, potential Libsync customers might want to attend this. And, like, there was kind of a podcasting 101. And the advice given was not like they were recommending SoundCloud, not my top choice for a media host. Yes, they're cheap, but in my opinion, they've lost a lot of money. If they're going to turn around, maybe, but at this point would not be my first choice. And of course, they recommended my favorite microphone, the blue Yeti, which is not a bad microphone, but you need to put that asterisk and go. You need to learn how to use it. And so things like that. I was kind of like. And then in the monetization, and that's where I was kind of like, okay, for this audience, maybe this makes sense, because to me, if we talk monetization, you're going to sell either your stuff, you're going to sell somebody else's stuff through affiliates. For them, there was one way to make money or two sponsors and Patreon. And they talked way more about Patreon because that's what this community does. They Support all the YouTubers, and these people are all just crushing it on Patreon. So on one hand, I was like, well, that was kind of lopsided. You didn't even talk about making your own product. Well, these are not business. Business people. These are, you know, for. For this group, that didn't make sense because they. They just. That's just not part of their thought process. Maybe, you know, Hank Green has a book, but. And I was like, okay. Because I was like, wow, that was kind of a weird monetization panel when you're only naming two. That was a little different, but for this group, you know, maybe. And so when I was kind of looking at it, it kind of reminded me almost like a lollapalooza. You know, you get a bunch of indie bands together and the audience probably shares a love of all these bands. I could see like, hey, let's get all the, I don't know, NASCAR podcast together and let's have an event, and then let's get all the, I don't know, entrepreneurs together and have an entrepreneur event. Maybe that's the way this is going to go, maybe there won't be one giant podcast convention for everybody. Maybe we'll have little mini events based on the topic. And the topic isn't podcasting. The topic is the topic of everybody. Shows we're all going to do. Hey, let's do. It's a knitting cast event where all the knitters get together. And that may be the way that we're going to go in the future. Who knows? But this was. That's what made this one niche. This was all nonfiction storytelling.

When I think about Patreon and podcasting, I think of two things. I think of one, I think of people who put up a little page, and they make, you know, four or five dollars a month, whether they need to or not. But then number two, I think about Tom Merritt, and we'll put a link to Tom's Patreon page in the show notes. But Tom does daily tech news show, and he's generating. And I'm just looking at the page right now. I mean, he's generating $20,000 and change per month for his show. So it's $240,000 a year for his show on Patreon. Was anybody there at those numbers? Were they higher than that? Were they lower than that? I just don't know the business models for any of these shows. Did anybody throw out just crazy numbers?

I didn't hear any crazy numbers at the time of that event. This was right when Patreon had changed the way they were going to structure the paying fees. And instead of talking about strategies of how to do it, the talk was more, are we going to stay or leave?

Interesting. Okay.

So it was a really. They were really upset about that.

And.

And so they didn't really talk about, you know, so. And so is doing this or how to build it, or, you know, be careful promising people physical products, because you might have to ship a T shirt to Taiwan or something like that. So it was. It was just kind of like, this is a way to do it. And we're all upset because they changed that. So it was a very weird conversation.

So would you recommend Libsyn go next year?

I would think so, because there were in the. The podcast, you know, kind of 101 class, and there was one about kind of growing your audience. These had, you know, 400 people. And I remember the one room was like a double room that broke down a barrier. The one of monetization was another one that had a couple hundred people there. So depending on. It's always going to depend on how much is the booth. Of course you got to get your roi, but there were enough curious people that were right on the edge of. I'm thinking of starting a podcast that I think you could go there and find enough people to make it worth your while.

So let's start to summarize here a little bit. So this show, very well run, very well executed, very niche podcast event that does two things. One shows the power of the niche in podcasting with the rock stars and the event and the hype and the excitement, the dressing up and you know, and it's funny, I ended up so. So truth be told, guys, I couldn't go to this because I had to go to, I know, poor Me, a fundraiser for Alice Cooper. And it was, it was quite crazy. I was in a room with, with Alice Cooper, slash Ace Freely, Rob Haliford, you know, a whole bunch of rock and roll types. And what was funny was my plane ticket to the event, my Uber to the event, and my hotel at the event was actually cheaper than my ticket or than my hotel room would have been in Seattle. And I was staying at the event hotel. And obviously I probably could have found a cheaper place. But this was not a cheap event to go to this ticket. The ticket for this event was around the hundred dollar range, if I'm not mistaken. So it wasn't like this was a walk in off the street, you know, look at the booths. I mean, this was a big show. I mean, do you think it has the potential to be the size of VidCon in five years?

Well, that's a good question, I would think, because it was, it was really well run. That was the one thing they had. I don't know if they were volunteers or how they did their staff, but their staff was everywhere. And so you didn't have to kind of guess where things were. They had programs to let everybody, you know, know what was coming up and things of that nature. If they keep it up and, and I think it's going to be up to them. Are we going to keep it niche or is this going to be a podcast event because it has the word pod in the name. Are we going to make it more how to podcast kind of a more podcast movement podfest? Are we just going to keep it this non fiction thing? And I think, you know, as the audience grows for this non fiction, that would be, that would be the limiting factor.

You mean fiction, right?

What am I saying? You're right. Thank you. Non fiction, yes. Because like the Adventure Zone is the one from the McElroy's that they do. Yeah, if that audience continues to grow, because that's what you need. I mean, this is really almost an event, kind of a cheerleading thing for, hey, I love this show and I want to come out and support and meet my favorite people. So if we can get 5,000 of those people to show up. And this was just, I'm going to say, a handful of people. So if we could get, as more and more people, podcasts get popular to where we can say, oh, I'll bring my audience too. You know, it's, it's going to be interesting to see.

Interesting, Interesting. And maybe it becomes like a lollapalooza or something of podcasting. It's, it's an angle. I just have such respect for the Green Brothers and everything they've done, and I appreciate their, their, their integrity in production. I appreciate their production. I appreciate the events. I've, I've been a big fan of both of them. And of course, I have teenage daughters, so, you know, the whole house is. I'll tell you this, when you have a teenage daughter, you tell them you're missing out on the Green Brothers to go visit some guy named Alice Cooper. It's not well received, my friend. It's not well received, but I have nothing but respect and they've done such a great job. And your reviews coming back, it was funny. We were texting back and forth from the different events. It's good to hear and it's invigorating and it's exciting and I don't think it's one that I'm going to take a client to probably ever, but it's one that I'm definitely gonna try to get to next year, possibly sponsor again, if it makes sense. Although the, the founding level that I got in at was just so fantastic. I doubt that'll happen again. But it looks good and it looks very. It sounds very different from a lot of these ones that kind of want to be, for lack of a better term, a mini podcast movement or a mini new media expo. I mean, surely sounds like. Sounds like they found their own voice, they found their own type, they found their own speed. And it's all podcasting and it's good for us, right?

Yeah. The more people are talking about a podcast as opposed to what they saw on TV last night. Unless, of course, that podcast is about a TV show. Maybe that's another niche that all the TV podcasters get together. My thing is, I think there's something we can learn from Each group like, okay, all these guys are getting people to almost faint when they see them. We what are you doing to build that relationship with your audience? Because obviously you're doing something right and maybe we can help them with some of the technology or things like that. I think there's something we can learn from all of us because we're all in the same field and that is creating content that inspires their audience to tell a friend.

Perfect. Dave, David is always a pleasure to have you on. I should have you on the show more. Where can people find more about Dave? Schoolofpodcasting.com All right, Dave. Thank you, sir.

Thank you, sir.

Yeah, sounds like a great event. I am sad I missed it, but hanging out with all those rock stars was fascinating as well and I just had to take a pick and I did. But I'm glad Dave was there to promote it. This year I will be at Social Media Marketing World. This year I will be at Podcast Movement. This year, maybe at the end of the year, if all goes well, I'll be at the next podcon. I love these events. They're a great way to get a feel for where things are going. Not quite sure which business partners will come to which, but it's a great place to be. Would love your thought on podcon and events and if it's something that you think you want to do in the future, you want to be part of in the future, or ideas that you've got for it in the future. This is the podcast report episode 136. So thepodcastreport.com 136 if you want to leave some comments and go from there. Of course, all the great social options are there as well. Thank you Green Brothers for doing podcon. Finally, thank you Dave Jackson for giving us a remote from the road. And thank you for listening and being part of this Podcast report family. You are appreciated and I'll see you at the next great event. Bye. We love the social interaction here at the podcast report. Thepodcastreport.com Facebook thepodcastreport.com Twitter so podcastreport.com insertsocialplatform of your choice. We'd love to hear from you. Love to give you the chance to interact with other listeners of the show. Another thing we'd love to have you do is simply subscribe to the show if you know what that means. Great. Head out to the podcatcher of your choice and subscribe to the show if you don't know what that means. Basically, all the big programs itunes, Google Stitcher. All of these platforms give you the ability to subscribe to the show like you'd subscribe to a magazine or a newspaper. And then the minute a new episode comes out, it comes to you automatically. It comes to you without worries about spam or that type of thing. And you don't have to visit the website. You don't have to go out to these platforms and see if there's something new. It comes to you automatically. Do that by subscribing thepodcastreport.com iTunes, the podcastreport.com tuneinthepodcastreport.com Stitcher. You get the idea. Finally, last but not least, we do have an email address.

Address.

It's the podcast report@outlook.com would love to hear from you. Chat with you next week. Bye.