Ceiling? What Ceiling? - Podcast Report Episode #40

A podcast ceiling. What ceiling? It's the Podcast Report Episode 40 show notes, links, conversation and more@the podcastreport.com 40. It's the podcast Report with Paul Colligan. And here's Paul. It starts with a big idea podcast to serve your audience, not find one. My name is Paul Colligan and this is the Podcast Report. For those of you don't know me, I am a 7 time top selling author. My new book how to podcast 2015 is doing really well right now. Thank you for those who picked it up. I've been podcasting in the podcasting space pretty much since day one. I love the audience, I love the podcasters, I love the consumers. I'm having a great time doing it. This show is for podcasters, those who want to take their show to the next level, those who want to figure out the issues that matter. We're not an issue of microphone shootouts or hosting. Reviews were an issue of why are we podcasting? What is the goal? What is the purpose, where do audiences come from? That kind of thing. I'm thrilled to do the show, episode 40. Having a great time, not gonna stop. I wanna welcome new listeners. A bunch of you joined on board as a result of meeting me at Social Media Marketing World 2015 or last week's episode about Social Media Marketing World 2015. Thank you so much. It's great to have you. We love listeners. I will at some point I might go back and archive some of the old episodes, but the last 39 are there at least at the time of. Go ahead and take that out. Why this topic? Why this week? Well, there's a fallout from last week's episode. The Social Media Marketing World review episode was, was. Was interesting. Everything from people calling me directly to kind of review what I chatted about and what it means to, to their business and their space. But also straight through to, you know, Gary Leland mentioned on Facebook. He said, you know Paul, I enjoyed it but but what's new? And that one kind of shook me a little bit. Had a meerkat conversation, had to do an event in downtown Portland. So I decided, you know, I've got an unlimited bandwidth on my phone and it was a long drive. So I plugged in meerkat, chatted with the audience. Lou Mangello was there and a bunch of others were there and it was fun. But was interesting this idea of the podcast bubble and not in a good way, too much money, it's a crazy time way. But in a we can't seem to get outside of this bubble. We are in the greatest time in podcasting ever. People are doing incredibly well. We're seeing incredible things. But people are still speaking of a ceiling, still speaking as if, like, podcasting is somehow limited us. Why does this matter? Well, we got to figure out where audiences come from, if we're going to get bigger, if we're going to expand, and of course, if that's our goal. Now, people think expansion, people think a bigger audience is a big thing, and I would like a bigger audience. Who wouldn't? But the question you have to ask yourself is this for you, Are you looking for a bigger audience? And if you're not, I don't know, you might not enjoy this episode, but we'll have some fun here. Right now, there is this Twitter bombing, hashtagging hysteria. And I'm gonna call it hysteria. And it's funny because, well, I've got a link in the show notes if you go out to the podcastreport.com 40, someone actually started a shame list of Twitter bombers. And I have a past episode about Twitter bombing. And yeah, it's a way to inflate your download numbers. And if download numbers, if anybod thinks download numbers are a reflection of reality, if anybody thinks download numbers is where the real connection of podcasting is, I don't know, I just kind of feel like you're missing out on this and you don't quite understand what we have. So some anecdotal evidence from my history with podcasting before I wax poetical a little. I guess in early days, the terms, it started with podcasting and it did well with podcasting for a couple of years. And then some things happen. Podcast Expo became the New Media Expo. Leo Laporte, one of the top guys, one of the top names in podcasting at the time, changed it from podcasting to netcasts. All of his shows now open up with netcasts you love from people you trust. Podcasting was too small for Leo. Podcasting was too small for the New Media Expo. If you don't know who the other port is, I've got a link to him in the show notes. He's amazing. Tech broadcaster, has a huge following, bunch of great shows, great network. He's. He's done great from the beginning. I have a link to an article that he wrote in his blog about how we got to get past that name, podcasting, and how we have to go in into net casting. One of the things that was interesting about Leo was Leo spoke to the ceiling. And I don't remember the number, exactly. At the time, I have a number in my head, but instead of being wrong, I'm not going to speak to it. But Leo was saying, hey mom, I can only reach this many because only this many know about podcasting. Now the thing that struck me at the time was Leo only reaching this many because this many know of podcasting, or was Leo only reaching this many because that was the size of Leo's audience? Leo has a one and a half hour plus. It's gone two hours, it's gone beyond that sort of, you know, Washington weekend review for tech. And it's, it's a fun show and I enjoy it and I've consumed a lot of episodes, but I'll be honest, not all the way through and not every week. And I wonder what the audience is for people who are going to consume two and a half hours of weekly tech news in that big of a way now, the tech podcasts are doing great. Leo's thing is doing great. The guys over at five by five are doing great. CNET's doing great. But you know, I don't know if it's that there are tech guys out there who don't know about podcasting as much as it is. They're just tech guys who've got enough podcasts and those who want that kind of thing are getting it. I have tech friends, I have certified high paid great tech friends who don't spend all day listening to tech podcasts. They've expanded their horizons. I listen to more tech podcasts than some of my truly in high technology friends. So anyway, the term, the term debated a lot. The idea of the ceiling. I've got a link to you in the show notes. Again, the podcastreport.com Sporty Newsweek was debating the topic in 2008. Okay, the early days of podcasting, a lot of arguments about the term podcast, but not the purpose of podcasting. Now, in prepping for another episode, another idea, I put together a posting in the Google community. And I said, hey, what do podcasters need? I mean, this is a good question. If I'm going to go to events and help podcasters, if I'm going to write books for podcasters, if I'm going to do a podcast for podcasters, you know, what podcasters need is certainly something I should be aware of. So I put it out to the community. And by no means is the podcaster community Google the only community of podcasters. And you know, I'm sure I've got some people listening to the show who have never been out there, but there were three interesting comments. And one interesting comment was that we should democratize consumption of podcasting. And I thought that was fascinating because how is podcasting anything other than democratized? How is podcasting anything other than you listen to what you want, when you want, where do you want, how you want the consumption of podcasting? It doesn't matter what device you're on, it doesn't matter what. I mean, I can't find anything more democratic than consumption wise than podcasting. So I'm guessing it's more an idea of maybe this person wasn't too democratic as much as they were kind of spreading the wealth. Maybe not the best understanding of what democratic is. Maybe the idea is, well, you know, we should make sure everybody listens to everything. Well, that's not realistic, that's not fair. I don't want to listen to certain shows, you don't want to listen to certain shows. And I don't know, I don't get that term democratization of consumption. But I'll tell you this, regardless of where it comes from, regardless of what he meant, not satisfied with the way podcasting is being handled. And I find that interesting because the way podcasting is being handled is what enthralls me, is what excites me. Somebody else said we need to breakthrough content not coming from traditional broadcasting or we need breakthrough content. Why? And first of all, we have some, and I've got some ideas and some thoughts, you know, but why do we need that? I mean, the traditional podcasters, the traditional broadcasters can podcast all they want. I can play in that field. I mean, you don't see any software companies going, well, we don't need as many. Microsoft's online. I mean, Microsoft's online, deal with it. Now you got some bookstores who upset with Amazon online, you know, and that's, that's a whole nother story. But I don't know, breakthrough content not coming from traditional broadcasting. I have no point. Do you have a problem with that? I'm fine with that. And then the last comment was, or at least the last one that I took note of here. And I've got a link to that as well in the show notes, the podcastreport.com 40. The last one was let's make the world more aware that we exist. You know, that's the Rowling cry, let people know that podcasting is there. And I don't know how I feel about that one because podcasting is a tech and podcasting is a tech that delivers content. And I care about the content, not the tech. And if this tech to deliver the content isn't good enough, then maybe I should find better tech elsewhere. It's not the tech's fault. And I just wonder, you know, is what we need to do make the world more aware that we exist. Now, International Podcast Day is a lot of fun. I participated last year. I've got a really fun big surprise for International Podcast Day this year, so I'm going to play with it. But I wonder if making the world more aware that we exist is really what we need. And then finally, in the anecdotal space, I do podcast consulting. I have some very big name clients and some of the biggest have come to me, launched a podcast and asked me, and looked me straight in the eye with all honesty. And it wasn't anything other than a legitimate question in their minds. Well, where am I going to get listeners? These are people with mailing lists of 100,000, 200,000. These are people with New York Times best sellers. And they're asking me, where do I find an audience? And I have to squeeze my head because, well, what do you mean? I mean, you have an audience. Let them know. And it goes back to this idea that I have here, the big idea of this episode that you podcast to serve your audience, not find one. You podcast to serve your audience, not find one. Well, Paul, what about those famous podcasters? Well, let's chat about some of them. John Lee Dumas. John friend. John knocked it out of the park at Social Media Marketing World. The guy's doing great. A lot of people talk about him. The way John has impacted the industry is, is undeniable. But. But let's chat about John. John literally came from nowhere. John did it with a minimal staff, and yes, he built his audience by podcast, but he did it intentionally. And John, I'm going to tell a little story and I hope this is okay. I'm pretty sure it is. I'm going to say it is. If it isn't, let me know and I'll buy you something. I don't know, but it was really funny. I got interviewed by John and then he has this timeframe between when he interviews you and when he goes live. He's famous for his back catalog. And I got to meet John between the interview and the publishing of the show, and it was fun. So I asked John, I said, man, John, why are you busting your butt the way that you are? You don't need seven days a week, two or three at the most. Nobody listens to all Seven, you know, and all the things he's heard before. And John looked at me and John kind of smiled and he basically said, look, Paul, a once a week show at the best has one person marketing it once a week. A 365 day a year show has at the best, 365 people marketing it. And I realized that he built into the infrastructure of his show, he built in the DNA of what he's doing, a means to market and promote his show. You can build an audience from a podcast, but you have to work your butt off like John did. Now, a future episode. I met a gal at Social media Marketing World who specializes in getting you interviews, getting you the word out about your podcast. We're going to chat with her. That'll be fun. But you can build an audience from a podcast, but you're going to work your butt off from it. This idea that I'm going to make a show and itunes is going to deliver me an audience just ain't happening. Lou Mangello, WD Radio, Walt Disney World Radio, great guy, one of the best at the event. Hey, Lou. You know, Lou is doing fine, but his audience came from a bunch of places and he has worked hard to keep that audience. You know, he got up on stage and shared events and cruises and, you know, movie premieres and all these things. Now Leo Laporte, who I spoke to earlier, Leo came with an audience. The reason I was excited about Leo podcasting was because I was a big fan of tech tv. A nerd, yes, me, nerd TV station that he was on before he brought that audience with him to podcasting. Adam Carolla, from radio to podcasting, even Adam Curry from MTV and the Headbangers Ball. These people had audiences. I spoke a couple of weeks ago about a client who does no promotion of her podcast yet she releases an episode and 10,000 downloads within 24 hours. Why? Because she had an audience. Okay, the ceiling is not our problem. There is no ceiling to podcasting. It's not podcasting's problem. I haven't found, and I rack my brains about this for a little while and I put a link to this in the show notes as well. Be interested to see if anybody comes up with one. But I haven't found a single successful person in podcasting whose audience found them. I know of nobody who said, oh, well, I'm going to podcast. And then the audience showed up. I found no reason to believe, you know, in the if you build it, they will come process of podcasting. And I don't think it exists. So I started a thread link in the show notes if you want to see if anybody came up with one, it'll happen. But the fact of the matter is this becomes hard work and podcasting is the way to deliver your message. Podcasting is not the delivery of an audience. This is so important. Okay, take homes. You might have your whole audience that podcasting will deliver. You might have your whole audience that is interested in podcasting. Are you satisfied with that audience? Maybe you should expand how you reach other places. We chatted about Kindle, we've chatted about video, we chat about blogging. Your audience not getting bigger might not be podcasting's fault. And then here's the other thing. You might want to find your audience elsewhere and bring them into your podcast. And this is huge. A number of you have reached out to me. You're listening to this podcast as a result of my how to podcast book. Thank you. Welcome. If you're looking to expand your audience, maybe it is an issue of seoing your show or optimizing it for itunes. Maybe it's finding the audience and letting them know not that you have a podcast, but letting them know that you have the content that they are looking for that happens to be delivered by podcast. Just an idea. What I'm doing. This is going to be the focus somehow. This is the beginning, the germination of my podcast movement presentation. I really want to help us as podcasters understand this stuff and go from there. And then the other thing I'm doing is I'm really looking at audience versus downloads. You know, how do I expand my audience? Downloads will become a metric of it, but things like texting in. And by the way, if you'd like a transcript from today's show and the mind map that I use to produce it, go ahead and text EP4.0 as an episode 40 to 503897, 1290 I will be focusing on audience versus downloads and I recommend that you do the same thing. That's it for this topic. The social for this show is all over the place. The podcastreport.com/40 for this episode/twitter. If you want to follow us on Twitter, that's always fun. Facebook if you want to see what we're doing on Facebook, all the normal ones are there. The blog is there. If you want to comment again, you can text hashtag ep40 to 503897, 1290. If you want to get transcript mind map of today's episode, the links I have over@the podcastreport.com 40 a link to the book how to Podcast A link to the Twitter Bombing Shame list and the idea behind that A link to my biggest need question A link to Leo's article about not calling it a podcast again from 2007 a link from Newsweek in 2008 linked to Leo. If you don't know him, he's he's a great guy. He's done so well. And then a idea of the concept again. In the in the Google community, has anybody ever stumbled into an audience? If you want to call the voicemail, you can 503-897-1290 if you want to email me, it's the podcastreportoutlook.com As I mentioned, all the socials are there as well. Please subscribe if you haven't already. ThePodcastReport.com iTunes will take you there. The PodcastReport.com Stitcher will get you over to Stitcher, PocketCast, TuneInReaker, iHeartRadio, Overcast. We're at all of those places. Consume this on the device and the network of your choice. I would love a comment back, email, social, tweeter, whatever you want to do. Thank you so much for listening. Talk to you soon. Bye.