I Like Walking In The Hallways - An Interview With Gary Leland - The Podcast Report Episode #7

It's the Podcast Report with Paul Colligan. And here's Paul. Hey. This is Paul Calligan. And this is the podcast report. This one's episode seven. And unlike the format of the last six shows, where we've gone through a concept and idea, today I've got an interview. And I've got an interview that I'm really excited about. It's Gary Leland. And if you know Gary. The different phases in life of Gary, at least where I've known him, have been fascinating. Podcast Pickle, the. You know, in my opinion, one of the silliest named websites in the history of podcasting, but it makes it to Time Magazine, one of the most. What was it, Gary? What did you get in Time magazine?

50 coolest websites 2006.

50 coolest websites 2006. And then I remember I did an article on my blog about the traffic that you were doing and how you were passing, at least according to Alexa, you were passing, you know. Mm. Or whatever it was in that particular instance. Adam Curry's organization.

Yeah, I don't know how. You know, I'm with you. I don't know how accurate it is, but we were ranked under 5,000 at one point.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, which is incredible.

You know, and so we take this, you know, we take this silly little site, you know, your mascot's this big, gigantic pickle, you know, and yet it becomes this important place for podcasters, and community was there. You know, the directory was vital, but more vital was the community and the chat and the interaction. And, you know, if Gary didn't show up to a podcasting event, people were sad and they felt like something was missing, you know, and then all of a sudden, fast forward a number of years. Podcast Pickle, not quite the destination it once was, but then you hear about Gary and some other guys who crowdsourced an event. And crowdsourcing has always been a bit of a bug in my butt because people think that crowdsourcing is, like, the solution to everything. It's like the old YouTube guys who. Well, we don't have a marketing budget. We're just going to go viral. Other people go, well, we don't have a budget to build this. We're just going to crowdsource it. Then they sell three or four copies. The funny thing about Gary's event crowdsourced was, Gary, how much did you. What was the goal and how much did you end up raising?

The goal was $12,000, Paul. And I think we raised that in eight hours. Don't hold me to this. Exactly. But I think in our 30 days, we raised over $32,000.

So you raised three times as much as you were looking for to do an event. And you and I, over the years, nearly a decade of debating, does podcasting deserve its own event? Does podcast need its own event? Is it even necessarily strategically intelligent to give podcasting its own event back? When Blog World bought the podcast Expo, when we were doing Internet marketing, this week show we're debating if that was a good idea. Are podcasters going to get flushed away, pushed away? Then I kept saying things like, I don't know if podcasters are going to buy an event, pay for an event, and then, lo and behold, you pull this off. So podcast movement. How many tickets are sold? You know, give us the one minute pitch here.

I think we're close to 600 if we're not at it right now. And we have 30 days left. And, you know, this is the first time I've done an event like this, Paul. But from what I understand, you have your big push at first. When the sale price kind of is going on in the last 30 days, you have your second big push. So we're hoping to add quite a few during these last 30 days. The last week has been really good, so we're hoping to keep that up. We're still adding names. Like yesterday we announced Michael Selznick's coming, you know, so he's speaking at the event. So we're still bringing people in, still setting it up. It's amazing how this thing has taken off. So there was, you know, the whole thing on the crowdsourcing was to see, was there a demand, was this a viable project, you know, in which obviously it was.

Well, that's the difference between you and a lot of other people. A lot of people, you know, believe that it's a viable product. Therefore, they put it out there, and then they get really disappointed if it isn't. You saw it as a test, which I really appreciated. And now you guys are doing this. And, you know, the one complaint is this weekend you guys are doing it on is like, the holy juncture. There are literally like seven different events going on that weekend that I had to pick from. And unfortunately, I made a commitment I'm not going to be able to show up to this one. But, man, it has my fullest support. And from these numbers, it obviously looks like I'm going to Dallas next summer.

The only reason it's the weekend it is is my daughter's having my first grandchild the first weekend. That's when we were going to do it. So I had to push it back as far as I could. That's how it got to be the weekend. It is.

So it's your daughter's fault?

Yes, it is definitely my daughter's fault.

So you and I have seen podcasting. You and I have seen a lot, a lot of trends, a lot, a lot of changes. Why in the world are you doing another event? You know, I mean, is this just going to be another one of these? You know, and obviously I'm leading you here, but is this going to be another one of these? How to pick the perfect microphone, you know, is this going to be another one of these? Which is better, WordPress or Blogger? You know, how is this one going to really benefit the community? What's going to make this one different?

Paul, do you remember Ontario, California?

Yep.

Do you remember what podcasting was like back then? What the people were about back then? My part in this is I'm trying to create that atmosphere, a perfect place for networking. Sure. There's going to be some people that are probably talking about microphones. I mean, we have so many speakers there, it's going to be impossible for there not to be. I mean, let's face it. But I want people to come to this event and when they leave on Monday morning or Sunday night to go, you know what? Not only did I learn a lot, I really did some strong networking and I am going to have a better year just because I was here. Even if I hadn't have been in the sessions, even if I hadn't learned anything, I'm going to do better next year just because the people I've meet, the information I learned at the networking events. So that's how I look at it because I never go to sessions. I think I went to one of yours once and I think that's one of the. Out of the eight times I've gone. That's one of the three sessions I've been to.

I was listening to, I think it was School of Podcasting. And Dave had Cliff Ravenscraft on and Cliff was talking about the event and Cliff said something on the lines of before you even buy your microphone, you know, buy a ticket to this event. And I thought that was a pretty strong endorsement. And Cliff is one of the good guys. He's been around forever.

One of our keynotes and actually I heard that and emailed him and said, can I use that clip in my new show?

Awesome.

I agree, that's just so strange. He said, get a part time job Selling pizzas for a month if you need to, to buy your ticket.

Yeah. Yeah. So what can podcasters networking with podcasters at a physical environment do that, say, the podcasting group at Google can't do? I mean, obviously we can all see how handsome Nick Unsworth is, you know, and that kind of thing, but. But, but, like, what do you get by being with somebody else, you know, one time?

It's a story I tell a lot. I don't know if I told you this before or not. If I did, I apologize for repeating it. I'm getting old now. But, you know, sometimes when you're around people, you can just pick up on things because you're there. One time I. I made a million dollars in my lifetime because I heard one word one time in a conversation, and that's what can happen. I'm not going to say that's going to happen, but you never know when being there, being involved with people, making friendships in person can do something so simple as give you one little piece of information that can change your whole life. Because, Paul, you know I'm telling the truth. One piece of information can change your whole life because there's no secrets. There's just stuff you don't know, you know, that you have not learned yet. But once you learn that, and that's what networking in person does to me, it gets you not only in touch with people, but it gets on a higher level that you actually become people's friends and they want to help you. I mean, unless you're a total jerk. But if you're the average person, people want to help you if you give them the opportunity.

So can I quote you that? He says, don't go to any of the sessions. Just do your networking.

That's fine. That's what I'm going to do. That's all I do. I mean, that's all I do, Paul. I never go to sessions now, but I'm not saying that's for everybody.

Sure, sure. Now you're doing something very cool. You are going to record this. And without naming names and pointing fingers, historically, podcasting and new media type of events that have promised recordings have not necessarily done so well. Tell us about what the plans is to get all this stuff recorded and what are the opportunities for maybe people who aren't coming to the event?

Well, we've actually hired an outside crew to handle this for someone I know who's very, very talented. Him and his crew are coming in and they're filming all the sessions. And you can buy your virtual Ticket, I guess, is what they're naming it. And watch it all at your place in case you can't make it. I mean, you can see all the sessions. You're just going to miss out on the networking, which to me is the best part. But if you're just wanting to learn, you still can learn without coming. You're just not going to be able to have the interaction. You're not going to ask your questions, you're not going to be on the network, you're not going to be able to have a good time.

What, what's something that you wish this event had that it doesn't at this point? Like, what's your dream for maybe podcast movement? 2.

Gosh, you're going to have to give me a second to think about that one. This one, I don't want to sound like a broken record, but this one really is going to be good. Paul. Oh, man, keep ripping. I think when people leave, they're going to. I definitely think we're going to have a surprise announcement at the end, which is not a surprise that we're going to make the announcement now, but the announcement is, and it's for 2015, and I think that announcement is really just going to just kick off 2015 like no tomorrow. But I really am personally pretty happy. You know, we've got Dr. Floyd coming and, you know, he's doing with Clifton from podcast comedy show back in the olden days. They're doing live comedy podcasts live. We have a stage built up for podcasters to do stuff on. We've, we've got an event Saturday night at the House of Blues just for us. We have their biggest room with their biggest stage, you know, for people to attend. That's, you know, it's going to outdo any party. I've been, you know, a lot of things I've gone to lately. They have a special party that you bought bigger tickets, you know, that cost a lot more. You could go socialize with some people where this event, everybody can come for hardly anything. And we're providing the shuttles to get there to the House of Blues. This is, this is going to be a good event, not only learning wise, networking wise, but even if those didn't happen, you're still going to leave going, man, I had a great time in Dallas. I mean, there's a lot going on for this.

I get frustrated when I sit down in a session whose primary goal is, is to make me feel good about doing what I'm doing. You know, I always get annoyed you know, like, if I'm a podcaster and somebody gets up and does the rah, rah, rah, podcasters are good people session, you know, that's all fine and dandy, but I want to be a better podcaster or I want to be a more profitable podcaster, or I want to be a more prolific podcaster or something like that. I don't necessarily need to feel good. What session, what person, you know, who do you think is going to have just a tremendous impact on, you know, outside of the networking, of course, who do you think is going to have some of the most prolific impact on your business as a podcaster?

Well, I'll tell you, someone who I like a lot, and he's a local guy, is Mark Mason with Late Night Internet Marketing. He has a great show. I'm not into affiliate programs at all. I do none. And I like his show because it has so much great information. I mean, that's a great show to me. And then Dave Jackson, I mean, you know, going way back, I mean, you know, school of podcasting, if you just are trying to basically learn, he's the guy there to teach it. I mean, we have so many people. John Lee Dumas. I mean, I kind of look forward to going to his session, to be honest with you, because I've never met him, and he seems to be the talk of the town, I guess is one way to put it. And as I said, we just got in Michael Steltzner, and I don't know, there's a lot of people here to see. I don't know if I answered your question.

No, no. I mean, this whole thing is an enigma to me because one of my big issues with podcasting is, you know, podcasting really is two things. It's a format and it's a channel. And the thing about the format, if you do it only as a format, you know, the people who, like, have to call it podcast and don't want to deliver it any other way unless it comes down an RSS feed. You know, the problem about, you know, that as format is just simply that, you know, you're limited to who can use it. You know, my mom, to this day, she still thinks she can't listen to my podcast because she doesn't have an ipod, you know. You know, even though I've offered to buy her one. And I can see that, you know, but if it's a show, you know, the ability to put these things on cd, the ability, I mean, you right now, you know, are taking, you know, the world of pod casting and pod or tainment. You know, you've launched your magazine, which is in. It's in the itunes store. Have you made it to Android yet? Does the jump happen now or is that next week? Did I just give something away that I wasn't supposed to give away?

No, it's not yet. We're converting my other magazine. I have 23 issues of my other magazine, so we're converting it first. So Pottertainment should be in the Android store by podcast movement. It should be in there by then. So I'd say middle of next month.

So you as a podcaster and you've made some money, you've branched out, you're doing events, you're doing magazines. You know, you've got websites. Do you have. Do you still have dill domains? Do you still have that website?

I sure do. Okay. I buy all my domains. That's a nice little website. You know, Paul, you know, I kind of like disappeared from the podcast scene because I got out of the podcast niche. You know, my target market was for a while, not podcasters. So a lot of people thought I had dropped and died from the world because I made a new target market and went after girls fast pitch softball niche, which I dominate. And I totally control that niche now. You know, not bragging, but I pretty much do. And so even though I disappeared, I never was out of podcasting. I just was podcasting in a niche where people who were interested in the technology of podcasting wouldn't see me anymore.

Well, you're certainly back.

Yes, I think so. I think, you know, Paul, so are you. Well, you know, and you know, your show. This show is a great show. And, you know, this podcasting, and I think you'll agree with me, this stuff is getting ready to go through the roof, I think, you know, so. So I'm back. You're back. I know a lot of people who are coming back who were like, not in this niche to podcast niche.

Well, I. I think it's getting ready to go through the roof, but it's not necessarily getting ready to go through the roof that some of the reasons that some of the people think, you know, I was at a high profile, well paying consulting gig and we were talking about their podcast and you know, speaking of John Lee Dumas, they're like, oh, man, do you realize how much John is making from sponsors? I said, yeah, I know exactly how much John's making from sponsors. You know, he gives it out on his show every week. And, you know, he's making 13% from sponsors or whatever the number was. It's somewhere around that. And they go, no, no, no, he's making it for more than that. Like, well, nobody's not. He gives out the numbers. He has the report. Like, no, no, he's making a lot more. No, John's selling his own product. That's where John's making the majority of his money from. No, no, it's from the sponsors. So we went to the website, we looked it up, and lo and behold, the majority of John's money is coming from selling his own product, which is good. I mean, that's what I do. That's what you do. So it's not anything I'm against. It's just focus that has to happen. I look at some of the bigger names in podcasting. They're either working for companies that have podcasting services or they're doing consulting or courses or that type of thing. I think podcasting is a tool to build a business. Podcasting is not a business in and of itself. And for the few people. And when I say few, I mean few for those who have made it a business of itself. That business could explode if they went a little bit further and they did more with it. One of the things I'm trying to do with the podcast report is every quarter, the plan is to put all the transcripts and all the graphics and everything up as a Kindle book and start having great idea, start having references for everybody to come out and do. And probably yearly we'll have a printed version of it and go from there. There's a course coming out, there's all sorts of stuff, but it's bigger than just podcasting. And I think a lot of people are like, I appreciate the passion, but I remember might have been podcast expo 1. Leo Laporte stands up and says, podcast your passion. The profits will follow. Well, that really hasn't worked.

I don't think that's going to work for a while still. I mean, you know, I agree with you on that. I think my thoughts are. And the big thing that I push is you got to sell something.

Yeah.

And I'm into selling physical goods, you know, but whether it's physical goods or whether it's E tech, you know, ebooks or webinars, you got to sell something. That's where the money's coming in the media. The podcast is just your advertising model. When you really get down to it. It's just a product that people listen to so they can find out about your product. You're making money off of.

Exactly. And, and obviously do it in an entertaining way and do it in an informative way. You know, obviously podcasts that are just commercials are never going to go anywhere.

And you're building a relationship. You know as well as I do, Paul, relationship building, selling is as strong as it's going to be. You know, if you've got a relationship with someone, they're going to buy from you way more than anyone else.

Which goes back full cycle to why you're doing this event. You know, and we joked around with this. You're obviously not saying don't attend the events. All of your speakers. There's a reason. There is a learning style where if I don't show up to the, if I don't show up to. I'm just going to pick one here. Rob Sestino's using YouTube to help grow your podcast at 10:30am on the first day. If I don't show up to that, I'm never going to listen to it. So I got to show up. Of course, being in a room with people who are thinking about using YouTube to help grow your podcast might not be a bad, you know, ID at all. But, but it's, it's that networking. It's, it's that communicating. So what are you guys going to sell at the event? I mean, you got Pottertainment, probably tickets for next year's event. What else is going to be going on there? Commerce wise, I think.

Oh, we're selling our T shirts.

Okay.

I mean, we don't have a lot of things for sale there, to be honest with you. You know, we really put this together pretty quick for the size of it. Matter of fact, we were discussing T shirts today, but I don't think, you know, we have anything, you know, major that we're pushing, you know, that, that, that may come, you know, we may find out. Just like you're taking your information from these shows and you're making, going to make Kindle books at them. You know, things can come if you have the information and you have the, the, the product to put together with. So I mean, there's no telling what could come.

Very cool.

I, I know though, you know, it's, it's four of us. It's Dan Franks is Jared Easley and Mitch Todd that are doing this. I know that Dan, for instance, and Jared, they have a thing, they've PodMove, you know, which is like an educational website. Podmove.com podmov.com so it's an educational Website where you can buy information and classes and lessons. So I think all of us are pushing using this one event to market our own individual things, basically, I guess you could say. So as far as how much stuff we've got together that we're doing as a. A podcast movement product, that's limited. But as you said, I have podcast Pottertainment magazine. I'm pushing. I'm sure Mitch has something that he's pushing. I know Dan and Jared have something they're pushing. So we're all, you know, invested in it and plan on doing well from this and promoting things. It's just we're not necessarily promoting and we won't be on stage promoting stuff. That's not what I mean. Yeah, we're not gonna be up there going buy our stuff. I mean, that's not what I'm talking about. But we all have things that we're working on that this event works with to help market.

Well, I wanted to have you on the show for a couple of reasons. A, you know, Just Podcast Movement 2014@podcastmovement.com Hats off. Congratulations. Believe me, there have been several times where I'm like, what if I didn't go to the other thing? And this is exciting and I hope if you make T shirts, you save one for me. But secondly, I wanted to introduce everybody to you, Gary, because you think outside the podcast box and you realize that the revenue is not in getting GoDaddy sponsorships for every thousand downloads, but the revenue is in thinking a little bit bigger. I love what you've done with the site. I love what you've done with the magazine and the fact that you're expanding the magazine. The big debate right now is do any Android users, users ever use podcasting? And here you are investing in making sure your magazine is available to the Android user. I appreciate what you're doing. I want everybody to follow that. Now you told me. And we'll end with this before we hit record. You're going to get a show of your own.

Yeah, I'm starting a new show. I just uploaded it to itunes yesterday and got the approval this morning, but the actual episode isn't there. But it's the Gary Leland Show. I know that's bad SEO. I know it, but I don't care. You know what I mean? I don't care. I'm not doing this show necessarily to target it, to make money. I'm just doing this show because I want to. And, you know, it's amazing, Paul. I started doing this show and it's about helping people sell stuff. I'm talking real stuff. Hats, shoes, whatever they sell with social media and podcasting, because that's what I do. I do softball equipment. But it's amazing how much stuff I've learned on these first six episodes from these guests. You know, doing a show like this is such a great opportunity to learn stuff on one from people you know and ask questions that you really are interested in. It's just amazing to me what I've learned on six interviews already that I've already are putting into effect on my show. And I'll give people examples of that, but I'm not selling them something on the show or tell them they're going to get rich. I'm saying, hey, if you want to, like, move into this world, here's some information for you. And every week I have a different guest from a different part of the world in there, and that. That can be found on my website. I'll mention at the same time, Gary Leland dot com. You know, it's pretty easy to find that kind of stuff.

Very cool.

And I'll put that. But I think it's going to be a fun show. First episodes out, we're just waiting for itunes to approve it.

Beautiful. Beautiful. And I will put links to that in the show notes, which are atthepodcast Report.com 7 for episode 7. This is Gary Leland of the podcast Pickle, the Gary Leland show, and one of the four guys behind podcast Movement. Just a friend, a smart guy. Pottertainment magazine, Softball. I mean. I mean, the guy. The list goes on and on. I wanted you guys to meet him. I know most of you know him, but we have a fun relationship that I thought hopefully we'd share with you on this episode.

Did you. Before you go, did you see the post I made five minutes before we started this show?

No. What'd you say?

I said, paul, Paul again is going to interview me in about 10 minutes. The. For the podcast report. And Paul is one of the strongest Internet marketers I know.

Oh, man.

See, and I mean it to me, I tell you this all the time. You're a smart guy. I'm in for anything you ever want it to you.

And we have a recording of this now, everybody. So remember when I want to be the fifth guide podcast movement. No, no, thank you, Gary. You're. You're. You're a smart guy. The other. The other thing that you bring to this totally outside of the tech side of things is, is you just have that get it done attitude that I think has been part of why podcasting has exploded. You know, you know, the fact that. That you just, I don't know, get a. Get a microphone, you know, get a camera, you know, you know, let's start recording. Let's go here. There's that. That's the spirit that has. Yeah, it's. It's pretty cool. So thank you so much, everybody. I'm going to hit stop on the. On the button if you guys want to make a comment. The podcast report, slash 7 will have the links. We're on all the social networks. You can go to the podcast report.com Twitter, slash Facebook, slash Google+, wherever you want to go. It is up to you. If you listen to episode five, you know that I don't necessarily think the podcast is. Or the website for the podcast is the most important place. If you heard this and it impacted you, find Gary at the event. He will not be attending any of the sessions, as you said, but let him know that you heard him on the podcast report, and we will go from there. Gary, I'll give you the last word. Any final thoughts for our listeners?

Hey, I wanted to say if anyone who is listening to this that does come to the event, please come up and say hi. I love meeting new people who are in this niche and hearing their stories and what they're trying to market and how they're doing it, because, like I said, I like talking in the hallways.