Podcasting For The Money: Everything Wrong with Podcasting Can Be Fixed by Listening to Your Audience

The one weird thing about podcasting for money, it's the Podcast Report Episode 57. Show notes, links, conversation and more at the podcastreport.com 57. It's the podcast Report with Paul Colligan. And here's Paul. First is always the big idea. Here it is. Everything that needs to be fixed in podcasting will come from the audience, not you, the podcaster. Hey, my name is Paul. I am podcaster. I am author, I am consultants. I have been in podcasting since the beginning. I love to love it. I love to do it. I've been doing it since day one. I've actually been on the web since day one. I'm a day one kind of guy. The avatar you are my audience. Is you a podcaster looking to make your podcast real business or do real business because of your podcast? Podcast Report's never been a massive play, but it's always been a deep one. That's why I enjoyed doing this show so much. Promised a couple of big announcements, and here they are. Quickly, number one, we launched podcaster cart podcastercart.com it's e commerce formed by podcasters. Check it out. Also launched RSS to opt in. That little thing I did in past episodes where we said text in so and so to get show notes. Well, I'm taking the tech into my own hands and I'm doing it for you. Legal podcast music, one of my little ventures has joined teams with Boss Jock. I don't know if you've seen the new Boss Jock app, but take a look. Patreon 2.0 coming soon. The book's coming. More announcements there. This is the last episode. I'm gonna make a bunch of announcements like this. We'll integrate into different episodes when needed. But I know a number of you were listening to this in the whole post podcast movement thing, and there it is. We're done. All right. Why this topic? I'm back from Podcast Movement 2015. It was phenomenal. It was fantastic. I don't want to do a podcast 2015 roundup, though. I don't like to make content that that is anything, you know, good for the week or anything good for just a short amount of time. I have always tried to make this evergreen something that you can listen to when you need to, when you get into the place, when you start, when you start playing with podcasting. And so to do that, I can't just do the, you know, top 10 presentations or that type of thing. So I'm back. There is some stuff that's amazing now at the same time, I have been given, and I realized it actually just this morning, a really unique. A really amazing opportunity. See, I've been part of podcasting since day one. I've also been part of the web since day one. I've also been part of blogging since day one. I have a really unique opportunity because I've been since the beginning to kind of give you some history and some perspective that I think will be good for all of us. Here's the other thing. There are a lot of podcasters. This event was great, and a lot happened, and my friend Tim street said podcasting has grown up and. But you know what? There's some podcasters that are doing more damage than good, and I want to chat about that. I've chat about that in the past, but it's. It's big, and we got to deal with this. So a couple of conversations at Podcast Movement that I'm still chewing on. But here's the deal. Here is the reality. I'm a metrics man, you know that. I'm a numbers man, you know that. I like to know where the truth is, you know that. Well, here's the deal, and I'll probably explore this with you in another episode, but the audience is the metric, not the downloads, not the roi, not anything else. It's the audience. So with that, let's hit some realities, all right? Reality number one. This is not the first time or the first industry where there's been a lot of people who have enjoyed complaining about money. I was on the web at the very beginning. I launched one of the first E commerce websites. I actually launched one of the first political websites. And that's. That's a whole nother conversation. And there were times where we were told, the web's not about money. The web's not about taking cash. The web's not about these things. There's a time when everybody felt it was sort of this intellectual playground for thoughts and ideas, only not riddled by the evils of commerce and that type of thing. And, you know, it was funny. You know, we look at Amazon's, made our life easier. All about the money, you know? You know, we look at some of our favorite websites, are all about the money, and we're not even against that anymore. We kind of like that the ease of use brought to us. Is there blogging? You know, I remember back when Robert Scoble said blogging is the future, basically, that it's morally reprehensible to have ads. He had ads a couple of years later, and recently, he killed his blog, the Future. Podcast realities. There are podcasters on all sides complaining about the money. There are podcasters who complain about the podcast consultants. There are podcasters who complain about the podcasters who sell stuff. There are podcasters who complain about those who share their numbers, who don't share their numbers. And it's not the first time people complain about money. People have complained about money for a long time, throughout the history of tech and I'm sure outside of the history of tech, But I just have that unique perspective. So some more realities. There's a lot of creative numbers in podcasting. I did the Twitter bombing episode. If you head out to the podcastreport.com 57, I've got a link to it. There was this thing called Twitter bombing where you can basically fake a gazillion downloads if you want. And if you're getting paid on downloads, fake them, get paid, go home. It's fraud. It's creative numbers. It's no good for anyone. But the fact of the matter is, you know, tracking is going to change. We're seeing more and more coupon codes, we're seeing more and more direct links, and somebody who buys a million downloads and gets four clicks just going to realize that this isn't the case and this isn't going to happen. And so a lot of creative numbers, but it will get fixed when ROI is fixed. Because I personally, and this is a smaller show, but there are no creative numbers here. I know exactly what I have. I'm not trying to fool anyone with anything. And as a result, I've got a show that's, that's doing very, very well for me. And so the creative numbers are going to go away when true ROI is fixed. Now, here's the other thing. A lot of podcasts, a lot of podcasts need to die. And here's the thing, the money grabs, the ones that are pure money grabs, that bring nothing to the Internet, nothing to the conversation, nothing to our existence other than the grabbing of money. Yes, those need to die. But here's the other thing. Those passion projects, those. Well, we're just a couple of guys talking about stuff or, you know, we're people who like things or, you know, God, dude, we need another podcast about podcast. Look at the industry I'm in. Or podcast about tech or that kind of stuff. There are a lot of passion projects that need to die, too. There's people who need to give their time back to their family or back to their community or that type of thing. And not Spend an entire week creating a podcast that, let's admit it, three people listen to. Yes, there are passion projects that only three people listen to. And yes, there are money grabs that only three people listen to. Hold onto that. Remember that. There's a lot of jealousy in this space. Jealousy is ugly. Jealousy is pointless. Jealousy brings us all down. And here's something. If you are jealous about some podcasting success, some podcasting numbers, some podcasting monetization, even if you don't say it, we can hear it. Even if you don't publish it, even if you don't talk about it, you're not hiding the jealousy. Well, there's a lot of hypocrisy in this space. You know, there are podcasters who are upset that so and so is in it for the money, but if they got offered a million dollars for their podcast or their tech or their company, you know, they take it in a heartbeat. I remember at a new media expo, I'm not going to say who. One of the keynotes, one of the keynotes who had a book, one of the keynotes who had a book that was doing a New York Times best selling run. And there's this thing you can do when you're an author and it's a way to game. And what you do is instead of getting, let's say 2,000 people are attending your session instead of charging your speaking fee, what you can do is you can give the event promoter 2000. Let them buy, don't give them, let them buy 2000 copies of your book. And, and then that helps you in the charts. Of course, it's 2,000 people who never really wanted your book or are pleased with it, but certainly didn't buy it for themselves. That's why they took the free copy. And it's a bit of a way to game the system. It's a bit of a way to raise the numbers and you know, God bless you. If you can get the gig, do it, go for it, go nuts. I'm fine if you can get. One of my rules in life has been if you can get somebody to pay, you let them, you know, but just don't necessarily plan on the, on the crazy money. So this speaker, this writer, this author who, gaming the system on the scale of about, I'm going to guess maybe 800 people in the room started complaining in front of everybody about another author who was gaming the system. But here's the thing. The only difference between author number one on stage and author number two being complained about was author number Two was just doing it smarter. That was the only difference. The jealousy wasn't the outcry of moral outrage that he pretended it to be. The jealousy was that the other guy was just being smarter than he was about it. There's a lot of jealousy. There's a lot of hypocrisy. We've got to get rid of it in the space if we want to grow as an industry. Now, here's the thing. Here's the part that brings it all together. Here's the part that gives us a chance to grow, a chance to do better, a chance to be what we think this industry can be. Here's the deal. Podcasts are the true market. And nobody, and this is obviously a statistical statement, but nobody listens to podcasts that suck. Money grab podcasts that suck. Nobody listened to. Nobody listens to passion projects that suck. Nobody listens to, okay, there are podcasts that have no real audience. And that's what the market does. That's the beautiful thing. We have a zillion choices. I grew up at a time where there were three channels. I actually grew up in Germany for a little while when there were no channels until after 5pm and they spoke a foreign language. Didn't have a lot of choices. Movies were 80 bucks on the old VCR, didn't have cable to flip through on demand. Heaven forbid, YouTube. We don't have to consume, we don't have to listen, we don't have to spend our time, we don't have to waste our time on podcasts that suck anymore. And the audience isn't doing that. So here's the thing. If you put up something and it stinks, nobody's going to listen to it. Statistically speaking, you're going to con a couple of people in, you're going to guilt a couple of people in. But that's got no longevity, it's got no audience, it's got no growth, it's got no future, it's got no potential. And it doesn't care if you're a money grab or if you're a passion project. It just cares that your content is garbage and that it's the type of thing that nobody wants to come back to. So there's this idea that money grabs by default are garbage that nobody cares about. Not true. Recently. Boy, you want to talk a money grab. America's Got Talent, the TV show, that's not a passion project, that's a money grab on every way possible. But my family's enjoying it right now. You know, it's cute. Seeing Howard Stern not be. Howard Stern is always funny. I'm ready for him to jump into, you know, naked lesbian wrestling or something like that. It's a show that is all about the cash. The Dunkin Donut cups, as opposed to the cups that you see on what is was that other show with the America. What American Idol. That's the other one I'm thinking of. You know, it's a great. It's a massive money grab. The fact of the matter is, my family enjoys it and we're rooting for the little guy and there's some fun stories. And this show, that is not a passion. It's not like anybody grew up and said, oh, my desire in life is to show the passion and the exemplary talent of the American people. It's like, no, I want some of that American Idol money. That's where that show came from. But, you know, I'm entertained by it. I enjoy it, my family enjoys it, and it's okay. There's some money grabs that are great. You know, there's some money grabs that are crap. There's some passion projects that are great. There's some passion projects that are crap. See, the market is going to make the decisions better than we are going to ever make. The market is going to fix anything that we thought we might be able to fix with our complaining. If we stand up and go, don't do this, because it doesn't work and it works, we look like idiots. But here's the thing. If something doesn't work, it's not going to work. And then it's going to die off and it's going to go away and we're going to be at a much better place. Podcasts are the true market. Let them be. And we as an industry are going to grow when you stop telling us what not to do and tell us more what to do every weekend, every event, this weekend as well. Don't just do it for the money. Don't just do it because you're trying to get a business. Don't just blah, blah, blah, blah, you know, tell us what to do, tell us what works, tell us what's great, do what works, do what's great, be awesome, and you're going to be a much better place. Now, my title for this, you know, I use the word weird. Why did I do that? Well, you see, there was this thing that happened a little while ago. Internet marketer, a copywriter used weird in his headline, and it was a headline and it was report that blew away all Numbers and all reports. And so now everybody, their mother is adding the word weird to their titles because they're thinking it's going to get them clicks in some sort of copywriting magic. And we're seeing that on the Internet. We're seeing people successful, we're seeing John Lee Dumas successful doing what he does, and everybody's trying to copy him, and we're seeing other people be successful, and we're seeing other people trying to copy him. Don't. Here's the deal about podcasting for the money. It's fine because the market will get rid of the ones that are lousy, and the people who are in it for the money are going to spend their money on the tech that we all can benefit from. I just launched Podcaster Cart E Commerce for podcasters. Do all podcasters need this? No, just the podcasters who want to kind of grab their own future and kind of run their own e commerce entity. Are there going to be some people with just crazy ideas on solid money grabs who grab this thing figuring it's going to make them a million bucks and it doesn't in a couple of months? Yeah, you bet. But it's going to help pay for the little guy who's going to grab this and build a little empire because he has a show that listens to the audience, that gives them what they need. That is the true market that follows this stuff. True. It's always happened. You know, I hate to say it, but this industry, this tech that I love so much, guys, porn paid for a lot of it. And as much as I just hate porn and what it's done to us as a society, well, you know, they've come, they've gone. The industry is actually slowly dialing, but they've paid for a lot of the technology that we take for granted. So somebody who's in this for the pure money grab, you know, maybe they were one of the big sponsors of podcast movement that made it all possible. Maybe they're the money behind the tech that's going to let you get to the next step. If the money grab stinks, it's going to die. If it works, it's okay. It doesn't change the industry at all. What about fraud? What about these guys who claim that you can get rich and then they're ripping other people off? You know, if there are people who will always buy Hopium, you can't change that. There are people who will get great advice and won't listen no matter how much they pay. You know, my doctors Told me to lose weight and I should lose weight, and I haven't lost weight. Does it mean that my doctor's a quack? I spent a lot of money on medical insurance and I haven't lost the weight I need to lose. And is that, you know, an issue of my doctor's a quack, my doctor's lying. Or is that an issue of I'm not doing what I need to do the fraud? It's not your job to clean up the fraud. It's not the podcaster's job to clean up the fraud. A lot of it will clean itself up out. A lot of it maybe isn't as obvious and as clear as we thought it is, but there it is. So what am I going to do? I'm going to spend some more time with my audience, more of an audience focus. You're going to tell me. Thank you for telling me. Tell this right now. I got comments fixed up at the blog. I finally relaunched the podcast report. Right now is a full blog for the conversation. I want to hear from you. I would love it if you jumped out to the podcastreport.com 57 started the conversation. If you want to go to the podcastreport.com Facebook or the podcastreport.com Twitter, follow the conversation, that's great. I want to hear from you. That's what I'm doing. What you can do as a podcaster, if you're complaining consciously, subconsciously, physically, not physically, whatever the right term is, stop complaining. I want to suggest that if we took all the energies in industry that we're spending on complaining about how people are in it just for the money, or people in it for all the wrong reasons, or people in it. If we stop judging others and took that effort and put it into content production, we would be at a much better place. And I realized, yes, I'm doing content complaining about the complainers. So I'm just as much complaining as everyone else. And I get that. But hopefully there's some stuff here that can take us a little bit further. And here's the best part. Let the market be the market that the shows that stink that sucked their crap, whatever terms we want to use here, let those die, because they will die. They will die quickly. And especially if we don't point to them and tell other people about them. You know, eventually you're gonna have to pay the bills. Eventually they too are gonna have to pay for their health insurance. And, you know, at some point they're gonna drop, they're going to die away. And the industry's going to get a lot better. And if we just simply let the market be the market and produce the content that we know we want to produce, it's going to be great for us. And those podcasters for money in their own weird little way, just might help us out a little bit in the process. This is Paul. This is the podcast report. We'll chat again next week. If you want to grab me on social As I said, the podcastreport.com Twitter, Facebook,/, all of the usual subjects are there. Please follow like etc. I'd love a subscription to the show. I'd love it so that every time a new episode comes out and boy, there are a lot of episodes coming out, I'd love to have you just get these automatically. I don't care how you do it. You can go to the podcastreport.com iTunes or/stitcher, slash pocketcast, slash tunein, spreaker, iheartradio, overcast. Don't care. I just want you to get this show. I want you to click, subscribe, follow whatever it is that comes to you automatically. And I'd love to interact with you. My email is the podcastreportlook.com and if you want to put a review up at itunes, go ahead and do that. With that said and done, I'll let you go. Chat with you next week. Bye.