The Podcast Guest Problem - The Podcast Report

I'm just a huge believer that if you're going to be successful in the event space nowadays, you really do have to look at instant gratification for the attendees in some sort of meaningful way and give them a tangible something to come out of that. Where they go, geez, that was more than worth it. You are listening to the Podcast report with Paul Colligan. Here's Paul.

Podcasting has an interesting problem. There are a number of people who believe consciously, subconsciously that a podcast must be an interview. And I like the interview. This episode is an interview. But that's not always the case. But here's the thing. People have paid a ton of cash to get guests for their podcast. Some of them are good, some of them are terrible. There are some high end people who will get you 8, 10 for $10,000. There are more realistic organizations that will provide a concierge type of service. There are databases, there are books, there are all sorts of options out there. But here's the thing, none of them are perfect. None of them are the solution. And for someone who's doing a 52 episode a year podcast and needs guests, there needs to be a means. There needs to be a way to connect the guest and the podc. Someone who is on your side doing the work for you is obviously going to be the best solution. But what do you do if you don't have that solution Now? In a past episode I interviewed Jessica from Interview Connections. She's fantastic. It was a great episode. One of our most popular ones. I'll put a link to that in the show notes@thepodcastreport.com 139 and she provides a service where they get you a certain amount of interviews per month. Jessica's great, but let's face it, it's limited. It's monthly, doesn't necessarily scale to the level that someone who needs a year worth of people will have. Now there are databases out there that you can search a lot of work. There are other companies who will provide you more. There are companies who do a batch, but we're just not perfect yet. And that frustrates me a little bit. I dealt with a person, brilliant, who said, hey Paul, here's how you get guests. Go here, worked with that company. Company or talk to the company. Company really struck me the wrong way. I'll just say it pretty unethical. And well, they're gone now. And this is someone highly respectable who stumbled across this, who found this issue, makes me a little bit nervous. What do we do? How do we do it. So Steve Olsher is a guy from the Internet marketing space that I've crossed paths with dozens of times. I know Steve, Steve knows me. We've seen each other at events. Last year, Steve invited me to attend his new media summit, and I set this up in the interview, which you'll hear in a second. But basically it was a speed dating for podcast guests. Now, it was not the perfect event. And you'll hear in the interview, Steve doesn't even necessarily claim it was the perfect event, but it's an interesting solution. And as we start to expand our horizons on what we have out there, we want to think about it, we want to take a look at it. And that's what Steve represents. Now, Steve loves his event. He's excited about his event. He couldn't necessarily help to promote it. I left that all in there. I do want to tell you though, that at the end of the interview, about 20 minutes into whenever his interview starts, he started giving some serious knowledge bombs that are fantastic. Talks about the idea of a topic of influence articulation, needing to get to the decision maker, being an engaging guest. This concept of the bounce, I'll tell you, this concept of the bounce is something that I'm probably going to do an entire episode on. So if you're not into Steve talking about his event, this isn't an issue to you, you've already got a solution, whatever it is, just grab to the end where he talks about these things and you will do well. So I want to get to you, I want to get Steve to you as soon as I can. But before I do that, it's the tip of the week. I am a big proponent of the idea and the concept that your podcast audio doesn't have to be perfect. Your job is to get your message out. You want to make it sound as good as you can, but sometimes it just doesn't sound like you're in front of a pro microphone. Now, it is fine to broadcast that. It is fine to podcast that. Don't let the naysayers tell you otherwise. However, let me give you a tip that makes the game a lot different and easier. Let's say you've got a phone recording. Let's say you've got, you know, an iPhone that was just placed on a table and you used the microphone that was there. Let's say you've got a less than ideal room situation. Let's say that your audio just isn't what it could be, what it should be. And if someone listens to that first, they might think to themselves, wait a minute, what's going on here? What's wrong with this? Well, here's what you do. It's not that hard. Don't fake it. Don't pass it off as the perfect audio, but actually position it as exactly what it is. Today on the show, I've got a recording of me and a friend talking on the phone. You'll hear the phone static images, you know, because it's phone static. Today I've got a recording that was taken from a Facebook Live presentation done entirely from my phone. Sorry about the background, but I know you'll enjoy the audio. Today on the podcast, we've got this. Today on the podcast, we've got that. Just set it up. Just let them know what the audio is, where it came from. Then you can be less than perfect without trying to seem fake or trying to seem unprofessional. Can't wait to hear what you do with your next podcast. I'm here on the Skype line with Steve Osher. Steve online since 93, first podcast since 2009. In terms of financial viability, he's the guy behind Liquor.com. he is an online player, not an enthusiast. Steve and I have crossed paths dozens of times. We've had friends say you should do something together, probably dozens of times. And I got a chance to watch Steve in action last year at an event where he brought podcast Curves together with people who wanted to be on podcasts. Some had podcasts, some didn't. The good old fashioned how do I get on a show? How do I get interviewed? And instead of a service, instead of an app, instead of a database, for lack of a better term. And maybe he'll describe it differently. It was speed dating. It was tables lined up, three minute pitches, do things make sense? And it was a good event. I want to chat about that, but welcome to the Skype line, Steve.

Hey, man, appreciate you having me on.

So tell me about your event that I got to go to version one for. Tell me what the general idea is.

Yeah, you know, so as you said, man, I've been online for a long time and podcasting off and on since 2009 and mostly on for the better part of the last three years. And like you, our show is called Reinvention Radio. I'll just put that out there. So our show is Reinvention Radio. And like you, you know, we get hit up quite often with people who want to be a guest on our show. And after talking to a lot of my podcaster friends, I real that we weren't the only ones, right? I mean, lots and lots and lots of folks were just getting hit up on a consistent basis to be a guest on their show. And so it just really occurred to me that there's so many outstanding people out there that we will just never have a chance to meet. And their applications just don't really do them justice for various reasons, not being able to articulate really who they are and what they do. And there's a million reasons why their applications don't necessarily do them justice. And so what I really wanted to create was this forum where not only would we teach people who want to get into this space, either as a guest on shows or as a show host themselves, just really how to understand how to leverage and monetize the power of new media, but the main hook was, you know, let's give people a forum with which to meet 40 of the world's leading podcasters and give them the opportunity to pitch them on who they are and what they do and literally get booked on the spot. And that was our first go at it, the one that you were at in 2017. And we learned a lot from that. And we won't be doing the speed dating thing anymore just because it was too much of a cluster, but we're definitely going to give people that same opportunity, but just in a bit of a different format that I think works a lot better for everyone involved.

And what is that format?

So, you know, what we realize, Paul, is that we keep it as a smaller event. I mean, this is not a massive event, right? I mean, we've got 40 of the world's leading podcasters that we bring in, and we limit the attendance to 150 attendees. And what we realize is that this event attracts just really amazing people. I mean, people who have just so many cool things going on in their own right. Their own podcasts, their own blogs, their own video channels, their own high visibility platforms, social media followings, etc. And so I was just blown away by the people that were there. And of course, I don't want this to scare people off. Not everyone has those big followings, but nevertheless, everyone there is just up to something pretty interesting in their own right? And so rather than just simply put the podcasters in a room on day three and let folks kind of speed date with the podcasters over the course of that day, we actually are going to now do it where because the attendees have so many cool things going on in their own right, we're actually going to Give people the floor, and they're going to have an opportunity to pitch everyone in attendance. So we're going to break that up over the three days, do six sessions over the three days, which will be a lot easier on everyone. And my hunch is that the people who will come and pitch the audience and the icons of influence, as we call them, the podcasters, I think they're going to leave with, on average, probably somewhere between 30 and 40 bookings. And many of them, I think, are going to do much, much, much better than that. So, you know, it's pretty cool because everyone who came to the last event got booked on shows, most over 10. One woman got booked on 33 shows. But I think in this case, they're going to end up with well over 100 bookings and networking. That is just unprecedented.

You know, I think, you know, and when we chat about going to the first one, you know, I told you that, you know, definitely this is a grand experiment. And I, you know, my thing about events is I will go to events. I don't like to throw events because I would just, you know, curl up a little tiny, you know, ball and just quiver for mommy, I think. But, you know, I'll tend anyone else's. I did not come home with any bookings, but this show is very, very niche, and the audience knows that. And I think the audience would not have been served. And I think, obviously.

Wait, can we back that up for one second? You didn't. Not even one of the icons. You didn't. You didn't book any of the icons either?

No, no. There was some talk back and forth, but I wasn't necessarily there for the same reasons. You know, I was there more as much journalist, enthusiast, watcher, that kind of thing.

Okay, gotcha.

You know. Yeah, But I did see, you know, you know what surprised me, though? You know, I've been on the Internet since, you know, before it was cool. I actually have a book on my shelf, Steve, called the Beginner's Guide to the Internet, and it's about 600 pages long. And somewhere in the middle of the book, there's a couple of paragraphs for this thing that's coming called the Web, and how they think it's going to change things. So that's how long I've been on the Internet, and I've been to a lot of events, you know, and unfortunately, you know, you go to an event and you get a lot of stars in their eyes. Like, you know, if I just figure out the right webpage template, I'LL be a millionaire tomorrow. You know, you get people who don't think it through. And I was nervous. I was nervous. But what was interesting was the level of people that showed up at your event on both sides were truly like. I saw people that if I was doing the right show for connection, I would have booked them. I would have been one of the ones who booked 100. And what's interesting is the industry of booking is a fascinating one. We have companies who say, pay me 10 grand and I'll get you eight shows. Many of them have risen, Many of them have already fallen. We got companies that have a concierge type of service, and those concierge services tend to work well in a pretty generic space, but nothing like the numbers that you said before. These concierge services are I'll get you on four a month or I'll get you on four, that kind of thing. And then I see databases and whatnot that are kind of free form. But I've yet to see some of these databases that are any more valuable than, say, a, you know, Facebook group dedicated to it. And obviously, although your event is very affordable, very affordable, the price of getting to San Diego and staying at the hotel and whatnot is a bit of an automatic filtering in and of itself. But good people showed up, People with messages showed up, people looking for connections showed up. And many of them weren't even. There were a few. There's always a few. But many of them weren't even upset when I explained what my show was. You know, I got many. Yeah, yeah, I would be right for you, you know, and I appreciated that because, you know, my junk box is full, as I'm sure your junk box is full of, you know, generic emails. Dear insert name of show here. I'm a big fan of your show. And my, you know, insert client here on the topic of. Insert topic here would be a runaway hit.

Yeah.

You know, and so why is it so hard for shows and talent to connect on a strategic, viable, predictable level?

You know, it's interesting and I appreciate you saying that, because I don't sit here and pretend by any stretch that there aren't other options. I will say that what I have found is that just like you have found, I'm sure, and you listening, have found as well, the way to really develop meaningful relationships with anyone is to spend ample time with them and really get to know who those people are. And that's one of the things that I have found about those. Those sort of services is just because you get A pitch from someone, you still don't really know who that person is, right? And I mean, they can look great on paper. And then you set up the interview and then you get them on the line and they say, and we've done hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of interviews for Reinvention Radio. And on paper, people look great. And then you get them on the line, you're like, jesus, you're a dullard. And like, you know, like you've got nothing to say. You don't know how to talk in sound bites. You went on a 20 minute diatribe and the episode's over. So it's like it's impossible to really know someone until you get a chance to really meet with them and get to know them, break bread with them. That's one of the things. Like my events, Paul, I've done events for a long time. The first big event I did that some people may have been at was an event called Internet Profits Live. P R O P H E T S. And we had amazing people there over the years. Jay Conrad, Levinson and, you know, Russell Brunson and Lewis Howes and I mean, Pat Flynn, you name them, they've been on that stage. But my show, my events, I like to turn into just kind of like a big fat, you know, big old fashioned wedding. You know, we'll do line dancing and we've got an led dance floor, you know, just everybody. There's no iron curtains, there's no VIPs, right. So everyone eats together, hangs out together. We do small group discussions, panels and, and so on. So it just makes it really, really different.

But is, is that okay? I think we're onto something here. The intimacy and everybody. Steve and I have no bullets for this one. We wanted to investigate the issue, not necessarily position Steve as the solution, but investigating the issue whereby which Steve is trying. This one. What can we learn from it on both this level and a bigger level? And Steve, what you said is interesting. All podcasters, we love to position podcasting as intimate. You know, they put it in the earbuds. We go for a drive with these people, we go for a run with these people. Sometimes we're a regular communication source, unlike maybe any other regular communication source in their life. That type of intimacy requires a relationship. People could tell this is not the first time you and I have chatted. That type of intimacy requires a relationship that will never be sifted and sorted on paper. And even if that person is.

Media.

Trained, absolutely savvy, they still might not be right for your show for sure. And if it truly is your show, you're the only one who's able to sift and sort. And the only way to do that. Well, I don't want to say the only way to do that. The best way to do that is at scale, not having someone or I don't even want to say best. You know, a very strategic way to do that is to get how many people come to the event.

Yeah, no, it's 150.

So instead of someone sending me eight leads a month, I get 150 over the course of two days.

Yep.

And I can do the crazy eyes test in the room but then when things make sense I can go up and, and I could book and your event because that's the focus in and out as opposed to, you know, you're heading to traffic conversion this month, you know, the day after traffic conversion, I'm heading to social media marketing this month. You know, we both might have our eye out for potential guests but because the goal of the event is not potential guests, then we're not, we don't have a good chance at finding them. It might happen as by default. It might not happen on purpose. And so an intimate invitation to people that you're going to enjoy or you're going to hopefully offer into an intimate conversation might make a lot of sense.

Yeah, yeah. You know, and it's interesting, I mean not splitting hairs here but you know we actually. So it's a three day event. Right. And then we do an icon of influence only mastermind on the fourth day. That's just for the icons there. But you know, you'd be amazed what can happen over the course of three days together. And you know, one of my pet peeves about events like traffic and conversion and social media marketing world and other larger scale events is they're very cliquish. It's very hard to get into meaningful conversations with people that you don't know. And if you try stepping into a conversation with someone that's a list or B list or something of that nature, you're looked at kind of funny unless you have a warm in to that group. And so that makes it really hard to connect with people on a meaningful level at an event like that. And so you'd be hard pressed to be in a situation where you could find someone who's show you want to be on or who show you, you know, you might want to book someone onto your platform. Right. It's just, it doesn't, it doesn't lend itself to those Types of discussions where you come out the other end of whatever that gathering is. You know, I mean, it's an evening gathering. I mean, like, what are you going to do? You're going to do this during, you know, you've got people on stage talking and giving keynotes and whatnot. There's no forum there. You're going to try to catch somebody in the hallway. Then people are rushing from A to B. You try to sit in on somebody with lunch. It's just like, it's just this big cluster that doesn't lend itself, in my way of thinking, to developing meaningful relationships with new people.

And if you had that success, it would be one. You know, if you're stalking a keynote, you know, let's say that, you know, you meet the keynote. Let's say, you know, all events love to talk about how, you know, their speakers are open to everybody and that type of thing. You know, let's say you go to the keynote, you know, that's an hour and a half after the crowd comes. That's some time. You know, let's say you get lunch to that next person. That's four hours for one connection.

Yeah.

And the odds because of the hype are pretty minimal. And the keynote has to. You and I both keynoted so we can speak from both sides. The keynote or has to, by the very nature of the type of engagement that they're involved with. They can't give any significant amount of time to any one person.

No. And they're going to be. Yeah, they're going to be whisked behind that iron curtain almost immediately. Right. I mean. And they disappear. Yeah, yeah. It's just, it's not, it's totally, it's totally rigged against the whole concept of developing relationships. Right. And so one of my, one of my huge pet peeves about typical conferences and learning environments like this is you go there and you may take a whole notebook full of notes and get a stack of business cards because you've been able to cross paths with some people. But reality is, most of the time, those relationships don't turn into anything. Those business cards don't mean anything, and those notes end up just on a shelf somewhere. I'm just a huge believer that if you're going to be successful in the event space nowadays, you really do have to look at instant gratification for the attendees in some sort of meaningful way and give them a tangible something to come out of that. Where they go, geez, that was more than worth it. And so, yes, we teach over the course of the three days at the summit there, the new media summit. But that's just kind of a bonus. It's gravy. I mean the main hook of this is leaving there with bookings in hand. Right. So it's just, it's so different when you. And it's a great comparison with traffic and conversion in the social media marketing world. I think there's going to be 6,000 people at TNC this year and I believe that social media is well in excess of what, three or four thousand people if not more. Right. So it's, I mean to each his own. But I will tell you this, that from my standpoint, you have an amazing gift to share. I mean you have a mission and a message that needs to be put into the ears and in front of the eyes of those who are literally waiting for you to show up in their lives. And so what is the most reasonable way for you to make that point of connection? And I just, I have yet to find a better way to make that happen.

What are the tools of the trade to getting on board? So what I like here is if someone's listening either from the I got to get my word out by getting on other shows angle or I want to get other people on my show. What, what are the tips of the trade? I mean there's the one sheet, we've chat about that on, on past shows. You know, you've got to be able to, once that combo is made, it can't be a Vistaprint 2000 for five dollar business card that, that does the conversion. Both the show and the guest needs a one sheet. What else should people have?

You know, to me, one of the sort of the foundational pieces if you will, Paul, that folks need that they often can't articulate. And I should just take a quick step back here and say that one of the things that we do as a unique element of our event too is we actually do six pre event training sessions, right. So we actually get folks ready for the event and we do it via video. So people actually feel like they already know people who are going to be there in terms of, you know, already having friends by the time they, you know, the door is open. But one of the things that we have found in those pre event training sessions and one of the reasons why we're so adamant about attending these is that most people cannot articulate well who they are and what they do and more importantly, really what the value add is for the audience and what I've seen on most media, one Sheets. And yes, a media one sheet is important, but what I have yet to see on most sheets is if you're pitching to be on a show, you've got to be really clear on what the value add is for that audience. So, of course you need a great hook, you know, something that gets people's attention. Are you familiar with Sam Horn? Do you know Sam Paul? Have you? Yeah. Okay, so Sam has a number of great books out, and one of the things that she talks about in her books is the eyebrow test. And really just being able to create that level of intrigue and interest and get someone to raise their eyebrows and go, hmm, you know, what is that? Within the first 30 seconds or so of hearing them. And so that is. It's a big part of the process here is not only having, of course, that good hook where you create that intrigue, but really being able to articulate that value add for the audience. But I think it even starts before that, which is being able to articulate in two or three or four words what I would call your topic of influence, which again is just that two or three or four word summation of what it is that you do in your own unique way. And so when you are clear on what those two or three or four words are that reflect your topic of influence and become that point of clarity around who you are and what you do, it is then a function of using those two or three or four words as your search tool. So when you go to itunes or stitch or whatever, the platform of choice is type in that topic of influence. Because what you'll find is that there are shows out there that are likely already talking about that. If no one's talking about what your topic of influence is, then that's a point of concern because you don't want to be the only one talking about this. Because if you're the only one talking about it, odds are good. There's no interest in. In it. We don't want to be the pioneer with the arrows in the back. We want to be in that early adopter phase or somewhere in that part of the bell curve there. But I think, Paul, that's a big part of the process that a lot of people don't get is that articulation of what their topic of influence is and then leveraging that against the existing show so they can see who's already talking about it.

That's really good. What else do they need? So a one sheet physical proof they're not a hack, and those are easy to get. Not that big a deal, A solid understanding of their topic of influence.

Yeah, the media one sheet, as you said, is definitely, definitely good. You, of course, need to understand who the decision makers are, right? I mean, you need to understand who the hosts are, the producers, etc. So you need to have clarity around the shows that you want to be on or who your competition is and understand who the players are within that world. And once you then have that media one sheet and you have the hook and you have their interest, what I find is that a lot of folks that we have on our show, again, it's just so hard to tell just from paper, but a lot of the folks that we have on our show don't understand the most important three steps of the process. Assuming that step one is your topic of influence, step two is identifying the shows you want to be on. And then step three is getting booked on those shows. The next three steps. I don't think a lot of people get down pat and really need to if they're going to be, you know, dancing in this world, which would be number four. I mean, you've got to really be an engaging guest. You know, a lot of folks just don't know how to be an engaging guest. And there are a number of reasons for that, not the least of which is they don't actually have a conversation. The person that's hosting the show. Nothing like coming onto somebody else's show and just completely railroading it. That usually goes over really, really well. Insert sarcastic emoji there. But being an engaging guest, it's a skill. And would it be cool to be on Joe Rogan or Tim Ferriss or Paul Culligan show? Of course it would be. Right. And reality, though is you probably want to do two or three hundred interviews before you get onto one of those shows, because that's where you start learning really how to be an engaging guest. And I think a lot of people just want to jump to the front of the line. And it's like, you wouldn't want your first television appearance to have been on Oprah when Oprah was in her prime, right? I mean, that would have been a mistake. So you got to learn how to be an engaging guest. Step five, you got to learn how to enroll people into your ecosystems. In other words, the phrase that we like to use, and I'm sure you kick around this phrase as well, Paul, the secret here is really all about bounce. You have to bounce them from basically being a passive listener on someone else's platform to being an active prospect. In your ecosystem. Right. Because otherwise we're just having a nice conversation, and then it's like, okay, see you later. This has been great. And nothing else happens. Right. So you have to be able to enroll them into your world. And then, of course, the last step on the path there is monetizing your visibility. And I just. I see so many people who have these great shows as hosts and of course, others who have huge opportunities to be on great shows as guests and really just have no clue how to monetize their visibility.

It's good. I don't want you to get any more because part of the balance is to get people to go visit you. But this is solid. This is really good, and I think it helps show your role in this industry. So is a guest engagement event the strategy that I recommend to you, the listener? Well, it depends on what it is that you're doing. But take Steve's experience and his recommendations here at the end and realize that a little bit of focused, personal, strategic attention. I mean, yes, we always want to do that. I mean, you know. You know, and sometimes our reaction is, I don't have the time. You know, you know, too much week, not enough hours kind of thing. But if you're going to build the show that has the guests that bring the value, or if you're going to be on the shows that bring the guests that bring the value, there is an approach here far bigger and far more elaborate than the filling out of form or the hiring of an admin to connect the dots.

Yeah. And don't get me wrong, I mean, there's certainly power in that process, too. And for some people that can work. And there are probably a handful of people, 1/10 of 1% of folks that are out there right now who could simply have an admin or a booking service or something of that nature pitch them, and people will line up in droves to want them to join them on their shows. I don't want to completely downplay that, but it's a rare person that has the ability to completely leverage just the power of someone else stepping in on their behalf to make that happen for them. So the truth is that there are a lot of ways that you can invest your time. And I believe there are only two ways you can use your time. You can spend your time, or you can invest your time. Those are your only two choices. And when you look at the number of hours that people spend chasing these shiny objects and the marketing initiative du jour, and I get it, right? To do Facebook lives and that's easy because you, you turn on your phone or you turn on your computer and you just start chatting. And I get it, right? I mean, in theory it seems like those types of things can be effective. And for some people, if they already have a big following, perhaps they are. But for the average Joe and Jane, who are doing amazing things, but they feel like the world's best kept secret and they just need more visibility, more eyeballs and eardrums on what they're doing. And I think you have to jumpstart that process. It's like you got to, with the defibrillator or whatever they call that thing, you got to zap it and really jumpstart this process. How do you spend your time? Where does that time go? At the end of the day, you've got to figure out if what you're doing now is providing the roi either in terms of the return on your time or your energy or your resources that you're looking for, or if spending a Thursday, Friday and Saturday at a place like the Media Summit, where we get together, is going to be a better use of that time where the ROI is exponential. And I can tell you that we have folks that came to the last one that are still reaping massive benefits of being there because you're just going to literally meet so many people, it's going to be hard for you to. Honestly, as funny as this sounds, it's going to be hard for you to take advantage of all of the opportunities that you're going to be presented because they are that plentiful. And I don't want that to, to scare you either. But reality is that three days there for a lot of folks is the equivalent of a full year of getting all their marketing in place.

Well, yeah, and I saw that I got to hang out with the influencer mastermind you had at the end. And yeah, there's been like, well, there we go, next year's done. And that was pretty cool. That was a testimony to the, you know, and again, not necessarily everyone walking out of there and, and you know, results vary and you know, all that stuff. But strategy, leverage, what makes the most sense, you know, that that's where we need to go. And I just want more than anything else, I want you, the listener, to know that, A, you want to get guests strategically, B, the opportunities for guests are not as easy as a contact button on your website. And you know, the, the attending of, you know, a couple of high profile events. And if Steve, you know, it's new media summit.net correct.net yeah, you know, new media summit.net I mean, take a look. You know, it's, it's growing. Every year will be different. As you listen to this in the future, you know, you'll probably look at the website and see things that I didn't talk about that. Well, that's because, you know, Steve's evolved as I, I started describing it as Steve dating Steve Jobs and goes, yeah, we're not doing the stupid speed dating anymore, which, which is good. Good that that means nobody's stuck in, in a concept or an idea. But what I want to do is I just want to introduce to you a. There are smart people tracking this issue. And yes, Steve has the event, and yes, Steve makes money on the event, and yes, Steve's going to make market the event. But it's, it's, you know, he's not a guy in a, in a corporate room somewhere who said, you know, how can we make money on this podcasting thing? He's a podcaster who's been doing it for a while. Saw the need. You know, me on this show. Any, any, any product or service born out of necessity are always my favorite ones, and this is an example of that. And as you build out your show, I want you to do it strategically. Steve wants you to do it strategically, and I would dare say you want to. To do it strategically. Steve represents an option, but also represents just the idea that there are options, and if anything, that is the big take home for everyone. So, Steve, I'm going to close this up, but give. Just drop some crazy knowledge bomb on podcasters here at the end. That'll make them go, man, that was worth the price of admission.

Yeah, and thank you, by the way, for saying that, because I certainly don't want this to feel like, oh, it's a commercial for this event. I just want you to be aware of the fact that there are, as Paul said, options out there for you. And Paul, I obviously appreciate you having me on here, but whether it's what we do or whether it's another event or something of that, it doesn't matter to me. Just, you need to have a plan. Right? I mean, that's the bottom line is when you look at your marketing and you look at how you're going to generate leads and turn those leads into conversations and turn those conversations into sales, you need a plan. And so I don't care if you're on this side of the microphone like Paul is as the podcaster or as I am today, being a Guest on a show. Ultimately, you still need a plan and you need to figure out what is the best investment of your time and where are you going to see the best ROI on your investment of time, energy, and resources. Maybe this event works for you, but it could also be doing Facebook Live. It could also be just being a guest who leverages the relationships you already have and just being a guest on more shows. It could be hiring someone like Paul just to simply move you forward that in and of itself. I was speaking to a guy today who has this big plan for what he wants to do with his business, and I said, that's all well and good, and who are you working with for guidance? He said, nobody. I'm going to do this on my own. Have you ever done it before? No. Oh, okay. Well, let's talk in a year and let's see how things go for you with that. So there's not a one size fits all by any stretch in terms of how you're going to build your business, either as a podcaster or whatever it is that you are doing, where you can leverage the power of podcasting to get more eyeballs and eardrums on what it is that you're doing. But ultimately, at the end of the day, the knowledge bomb that I'll drop here, Paul, is, look, I believe wholeheartedly that you are the solution to someone else's problem. And there are people who are literally waiting and praying for you to show up in their lives. And so I don't care what the medium is that you leverage to reach them. Just do whatever it is that you need to do and so that you can look yourself in the mirror when you go to bed at night and just know that you've done everything that you possibly could during that day to share, as I call it, your what with strategic abandon, to really reach those who not only you're most compelled to serve, but those who need you most.

I'm going to close with that, Steve. Thank you, buddy.

Thanks for having me, Paul.

That's Steve. I told you, the stuff at the end is fantastic. This idea of the bounce is a simple way to phrase the very reason why others go to podcasts, podcasts as a marketing element and a marketing option. So thank you, Steve, for that. At the podcast report139, which is this episode, I will have a link to Steve's event. I will have a link to the interview with Jessica. I will have a link to my one sheet so you can see what one looks like. Not necessarily a plea, even necessarily to be on your show pretty per se. But I just want to show you what the possibilities are there and would love your thoughts, would love your ideas. Steve brought up some interesting things. The guest issue there's no clean way to do it. There's a lot of you who want it. There's a lot of people who are looking for it. I've got a lot of clients who come to me for it and I'm still working on the solution. It's a problem. We'd love to hear what you think. Thepodcastreport.com 139chat Next week we love the social interaction here at the podcast report. ThePodcastReport.com Facebook ThePodcastReport.com Twitter LepodcastReport.com InsertSocialPlatform of your choice. We'd love to hear from you. Love to give you the chance to interact with other listeners of the show. Another thing we'd love to have you do is simply subscribe to the show if you know what that means.

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Bye.