Turn Your Podcast Into a MONEY-MAKER 🚀 w/ Paul Colligan

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Podcast Insider special edition. I am a longtime friend, Paul Colligan, and I can actually say that because we've known each other for at least in person for at least 18 years. Haven't we, Paul?

Yeah. Yeah.

It's been a wild ride, to be kind of off, to be honest with you. And you were saying something before we got started that you've been podcasting 20 years, but what was only five of it? Profitably.

Yeah, five of them. Profitably.

Five of them.

Maybe a little bit more than that, but. Yeah, but, you know, I mean, that's the industry we knew, you know. You know, when you. When you handed me that book at gnome decks about podcasting, that didn't even make mention of the idea that Apple might, at some point, you know, integrate with this.

Yeah.

You know, it takes a little while to pay a few, you know, make a few bucks in the process, but it's been. It's been a fun ride. It's been an interesting ride. How about that?

You know, and the reason I wanted to talk to you today, and you know, what our goal here is, is I want to get people that are. Been in the weeds actually doing good and not talking. A lot of people talk, but not a lot of people do.

Well, it's podcasters. That's what we do by default. Yes.

And, you know, you've been working almost, I would say exclusively with businesses for probably about as long as I can remember. How long has it been now that you've been working with businesses?

Well, I've been working with businesses. You know, again, how much of it profitably? You know, since day one. I always saw this as a business opportunity, and as a matter of fact, my origin story, you know, you got to love those people who say, I've been podcasting for 30 years. Yeah, you know. No, no, you haven't. But my origin story actually goes back to 2000, when I met the CEO of Audible and he gave me a vision, and I still owe him for that vision. It's fantastic.

Vision.

I want it in. I want it in bad. I was actually about to release my first audio product at the time, and I knew that if I could do it on Audible, I'd kill. And at the time, Audible was half a million to get in, and they got 70% and you got 30%, and I don't know about your numbers over at Blueberry, but that wasn't going to work with what I was doing.

That's right.

And so I walked away kind of defeated. So when podcasting Popped up. I saw it from day one as a chance to be Audible, you know, and you know me, man, hardcore nerd. You know, we had gnome decks. Come on.

Yeah.

You know, but I always saw it as, I can play Audible, and, you know, and businesses play Audible, and you can.

You don't. You're not beholden to nobody, and you don't have to fork out that half million.

Yeah, it's even better now. It's even better now. And the funny thing is, not only is it better, but we can click a button and we could be on Audible in five minutes.

That's right. And most people don't know what Audible even was before the company that owns it owns it.

Yeah, Audible. I was all excited because it was like 87% of all the MP3 players did audible. 100% of all the MP3 is do podcasting, so.

That's right.

It got better, got cheaper, it got cooler, it got funner.

And, you know, for those of you that are just tuning in again, there's a lot of history in podcasting, a lot. And we're not going to go over that today. That would take five hours.

Not in this hour.

No, not, not. It'd be impossible. But really, the focus is, you know, I want those of you have a business to understand, really, the true, absolute value of having a podcast as part of their content strategy. We saw a lot of people during COVID ad podcasting, but not a lot of people completely leaned in. It was kind of like this thing that they did for a little while. Covid was over. Then they, you know, they kind of undiversified from the amount of content they were creating. And in today's age, and with everything that's going on with search and with AI and all the stuff that's going to change the landscape for businesses globally, you got to have podcasts right now. So I guess we'll start out with the base question, you know, why, besides what I just said, does a business need a podcast?

Well, any real business solves a problem. You know, Blueberry, where do I put my podcast? You know, you know, the podcast partnership. How do I make business sense out of podcasting? Any real business solves a problem, and people are attracted to businesses because they solve the problem. Now the problem could be, I'm driving down the freeway with my screaming kids, and the business is McDonald's. You know, it could be I'm about to buy a house in Portland. The business is real estate. It could be whatever. But any real business solves a problem, and we want to integrate with the business. We go with businesses that we like. We want the stories of that business, we want the answers to that business, we want the solution of that business. And podcasting is an amazing way to do it. Because unlike, well, let's go back to McDonald's. You know, one day McDonald's said, you know what, we can serve breakfast at 2:00 clock in the afternoon. And everybody freaked out. And it's like, you know, no, you can totally serve breakfast. It's the same eggs at 10 o' clock in the morning and it's at 2 o' clock in the afternoon. The customer's right.

That's right.

And so podcasting, instead of, well, I can fit you in Tuesday at 2 to hear about what we do with podcasting. I can fit you in when you want, where you want on the device that you want. And as a matter of fact, if I talk too slow, you can speed me up to 2x3x. You know, it's entirely in your terms. So as you communicate your problem solving process to your client base, if you make it easier for them on their terms, you're going to be at a better place. You just can't be. And I got some raw numbers for you. Really fun. One financial planner, who our big thing is, what do you want the show to do and how we know the show's doing it? That's it. He want the phone to ring.

Great.

How many know the show's doing it? Ready for this? Put a phone number on the show. It really wasn't that complicated. And we found that the people who called as a result of his normal marketing, one out of every ten bought a service. People who called as result of the show, one out of three bought a service.

That's a huge difference.

It's a huge difference. But here's the fun part. We can be, we can pontificate on the power of podcasting and how the individual storyteller changed the narrative. Blahdy, blahdy, blahdy, blah. Or he's a financial planner. And before you give your financial planner your money, you want to make sure the guy's not nuts.

And you want to trust him.

And yeah, you got to trust him. The people who 1 out of every 10 knew nothing about the guy. The people who knew 1 out of every 3 had listened to 8 12, wanted to even listen to 20 episodes. And because they consumed this guy on their terms on their device, you know, they were able to go, yeah, I want to sign up with this guy. So the conversion numbers, actually, it's the same conversion. It's the amount of time spent, but the time was spent with the show as opposed to the time spent with him.

You know, I remember going back to before podcasting when I was looking for a financial planner, and I really didn't have a clue who I knew what I wanted. I wanted someone that was a little aggressive, but not too aggressive, but was conservative enough that he would get me across the finish line with some money. Right. That was kind of my. And so that was kind of in my head. And when I talked to people, I never told them what my goal was. I said, well, how do you know? How are you going to do this for me? And the person that was so aggressive, I said, I'm not going to trust him with my money.

Yep.

The person was too conservative. I'm like, oh, my God, he's not going to make me any money. And the person, it was kind of like the, you know, Goldilocks story. Right. It was. It was. It was the worst. It was, you know, so in the middle, I kind of found the person, and they. They've done me well. But that took a long time.

Yeah. And imagine if you could have done that two weeks worth of your driving to and from.

Right. Instead of spending an hour on the phone with somebody that was more salesman than they were. Tell me what they're. How they were going to get me there.

Yeah. And Mr. Over Aggressive, you probably would have figured that out about the first five minutes of the show. So you hit stop and you play the next show. You know, you don't have to weasel your way out of the meeting or come up with a fake emergency or that kind of thing. Yes. It's just so much easy, so much easier.

You said something earlier that really hit home across all podcasts was I talked to so many content creators today, they don't have a goal. So what is the. What is the goal of your show, Todd?

Our entire business is four questions. It's just four questions, Todd. And it's so funny because everybody's like, why are you giving this away? It's just four questions, and nobody's answering them. Number one, what do you want the show to do?

Yeah.

Number two, how you know that the show's doing it? Number three, this is crazy, Todd. Is the show doing it? And then number four, how do we do it better? So let's go back to that financial planner.

Yeah.

What do you want the show to do? Make the phone ring. Great.

That's the goal.

Number two, how we know the show's doing it. I asked him, I said, now, are your sales guys, are they the type of guys are going right for the sale and they're not going to find out why they called? Or do you have like this methodical process that some of the salespeople have? Oh, no, no method. These guys go right for the sale. I go, well, you're gonna have a problem because you don't know who's calling from what. Todd, I bought him a $30 cell phone on our corporate account. I sent him the cell phone. The number on the show is the cell phone.

Yeah.

I said, give us your best sales guy.

Yeah.

And I'll tell you the best sales guy. If the landline's ringing and the cell phone's ringing, he picks up the cell phone because that closes.

Right.

So now here's the great. And by the way, by the way, Todd and I love these numbers. Like, I could not ask for these numbers. Better enough, a client's worth three grand. They convert out of one out of every three. You know what this means, Todd? Every time the phone rings, it's worth a thousand dollars.

That's right.

So what do you want the show to do? Make the phone ring. How many shows doing it? We're tracking it. Number three. Is it doing it?

Yeah.

How do we do better at that point now? Boy, you talk about, I can't afford to advertise my podcast. If I can afford to advertise that show in such a way that it cost me less than $1,000 to make the phone ring, I can afford to advertise that show. If it takes me fifteen hundred dollars to make that phone ring, I cannot afford to advertise that show. Guess what? At $1,000, make the phone ring. I can pay to advertise that show. Now, it's very niche. It's very specific. Most episodes, he gets less than a thousand downloads, but his CPM, Todd, is 87,600 something. It's just insane because of those four questions. What do you want to do? How do we know that's doing it? Is it doing it? How do we do it better?

The show on itself is the best SEM money can buy, but at the same time, then you target SEM against that content. Oh, yeah. And it's. It's a force multiplier. It's. It's beautiful.

Yeah, well, and there's SEM of two levels. A, you get all the keywords, you get all the content, that kind of stuff. But, you know, I mean, when you were looking for your Money guy. One of the things you're like, is he here for the long term? Well, when you look up for a money guy and you see that he has 250 episodes, question answered. You know, you might not even have to listen to a. This guy's got 250. He knows what he's talking about. I'm going to go visit his office. So there's SEM by default. There's also just in the context.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, business now, whether we like it or not. I always get kind of a giggle. People ask me, well, where's your market? I'm like, well, 80% United States, break it out. Canada, UK and then the rest of the world. And they kind of look at me kind of funny. I said, yeah, I'm a global business. Not all folks that are having a business today are global, nor do they want to be. Nor can they do business globally. But if they're just looking to drive revenue roi, do you think the. And this is probably a harder question to ask. So you've got the financial advisor. He can talk to you from anywhere. But what about the person that is the real estate agent that's only licensed in Nevada and they're going to have to be able to sell homes in Nevada and they were going to target people that want to buy a home in Nevada. That's not going to help them. If someone wants to buy a home in New York. So where then does that fall in. Is there referral opportunities? How does that work when someone is not licensed to do business in the area you're looking for that contact? I guess that's. I don't know if that's the best way to say it or not.

No, no, no. It's great. It's great. And it's a great question. And here's the funny thing is with the way you just phrased it, Todd, you now ask the questions before. See, I used to get phone calls where they'd ask me, what kind of microphone should I buy?

Yeah.

You know, or that type of thing. Now I get phone calls, what I try to do. So ask the question, what are you trying to do with the show? And I'd say, there's no wrong thing. Just know what it is that you're trying to do. If you are trying to be. If you just don't want to mess with the world other than Nevada, guess what you do, Todd, you do. Ready for this? A Nevada real estate show.

Right.

Because it automatically filters. The guys are looking to buy a home in Dallas. Are not going to listen to the Nevada real estate.

Right, right.

So if you want to be just Nevada real estate, you do the Nevada Real Estate show or maybe even the Vegas. Yeah, yeah. Now if you're like, I want to be the top, I'm gonna, you know, you're gonna laugh, but I want to be the Joe Rogan of real estate, you know. Well, then how are you going to know if you're the Joe Rogan of real estate? Forgot those stats. And you know, I mean, maybe your thing is everybody in Nevada. I'm going to sell everybody else. I'm going to sell leads. Great. What's the infrastructure for that? Do you have that in play? What are you trying to do? You know, I would say, I'll tell you this, I don't want to listen to a real estate show. I want to listen to the Tiger, Oregon real estate show, you know, and so I would build the show that way. But what is it, is it that you're trying to do now? Another financial planner, really interesting guy, big radio background, TV background. He did that type of thing where back in the old days he would buy, you know, the hour on Saturday afternoons on the local UHF station. So the guy had all the training, all the, everything was great. And so we did a bunch of shows. What do you want the show to do? Bring in new leads. Now, he was the type of financial planner and he had the type of business where he was the type of guy who likes to bring the gift to the kids graduation that he goes to because he loves that person so much. So he had no desire to get clients anywhere other than, you know, a 30 mile external radius. So the show got great accolades, the show got great reviews, the show got great downloads, the topics he covered, people were into it, got everything. But at the end of the year, they went to all the new customers and they said, hey, we just want to make sure we're doing everything right. How did you come to us? And despite the thousands and thousands of downloads, nobody came as a result of the podcast. Oh, you know, because people were outside. You know, he was doing great to people in Portland, he was doing great to people in Texas, but just not people in.

Right.

You know, and so, and I appreciate this. As fun as the show was to kill, I said either we expound what we're doing with the show or we killed the show. And we killed the show because it wasn't doing what we wanted, the show.

Right. Or you have to rebrand, re look at the content again. But I think those narrow. I Think if you're a business, or let's say you're a car dealer in my town, okay, and you're trying to drive people to walk into the car dealer, I think you just better go to FM100 and buy radio spots.

I agree, I agree.

You know, or buy something on Facebook, I don't think. Unless you're in a big enough metro. Now, if you're in Columbus, if you're in Dallas, you're in la, you're in a big enough metro area where you can get the volume of people to listen, then it probably makes sense. If you're a plastic surgeon in Miami and you're world renowned, of course, the world is your onion, right? So I think some of the businesses are. Is the goal usually purely ROI on being able to deliver new customers, or is there another ROI model that you're seeing that.

Great, great question, Todd. I love this. So I want, you know, what do you want the show to do? Establish me as the preeminent authority on the topic of X. Is usually something that people say, yeah, great. How would you know that the show is establishing you? This is the question number two. How you know the show is establishing you as the preeminent expert on X. There was, well, I get good reviews. You know, you had 25,000 downloads, three people gave you a review. You know, what about the other 24,000, right? You know, oh, downloads. If a million people download your show and they hang up five minutes in, you know, you're not the preeminent expert right now. Hardcore history. Dan Carlin. Three and a half hour episodes, multiple parts. They listen all the way to the end. Dan is one of the preeminent history guys on the world as a result of that show. So if you want to establish yourself as the expert, then how long do they listen? Do they sign up for the newsletters? Do they buy the books? You know, do they buy more?

Is this, you know, do you get invited to events to speak? Do you? Are you. Those are the metrics you want to look at?

Yeah. And then you write them down. I want to be invited to 10 events. And by the way, a lot of people don't know that this is even an option sometimes, despite the unis in the industry, that seem almost scary to approach. Some people think podcasters are unapproachable. You need to make it in the process, tell a story about how you spoke at an event. You know, talk about how you love to get in front of groups, how you do consulting contracts, how you have coaching clients, you make that part of the topic and say, oh, he has coaching clients just like me.

You know, the original goal of my show was to get a press pass to ces.

And did it work?

It worked.

Did it work?

It did. I used the content to be able to get the invite. But then the goal become. Make money. So the goal can change over time.

Absolutely. Oh, those four questions, you can change them every week.

Right.

I just don't want you recording this week's show to last week's answers, you know, and. But yeah, so. So I want to become the expert, you know, you know, the old great radio guys, you know, what they wanted out of it was to write off their wine habit, you know, and they did it. They wrote off their wine habit, you know, and so whatever, you know, the goal could be minimal, but just. Just be honest with the goal. You know, a lot of people are like, you know, they say their goal is, I want to just pursue my passion. Where really their goal is, I want to quit my day job and become the next Joe Rogan. You know, and the problem is pursuing your day passion, that's easy, but you're not going to become the next Joe Rogan.

That's right.

Doing that.

Yeah.

You know, and so, yes, the thing is you, you know, you could just, you know, I want to. I want to force myself to get up every Saturday morning and do the research it takes to get this topic out the door so that in one year, I'm an expert. That's a great reason. You know, how I know that I'm doing it? Did I get up every morning and do my research?

That's. That's a big statement there. Because people often want to take it. Take the easy way. And I understand there's lots of tools now to help us with research, and thank goodness we have those. It makes it easier. The web, you know, perplexity, all these different tools we can use now for research. The. But that doesn't make you an expert. So are you seeing most of these business shows doing interviews with other people? Are they solo shows? How is the mix on that?

Well, Todd, great question. First of all, a lot of people, you know, part of what they want to do consciously or subconsciously, is they want to work as little as it's humanly possible. They don't want to do the research. They don't want to do the perplexity thing. So they get guests.

Yeah.

And. And then. And then they. And then there's this magic that the guest is going to, like, tell you about their audience or you could tell their audience about your interview, you know, and then all of a sudden you're going to go with a million people. So, A, you didn't have to work for your episode, and then B, that person introduced you to 100,000 new downloads.

No.

Exactly. Neither is true. Now you can become an expert by asking questions of other experts, if that's your model. I want to interview the 52 smartest people I can convince to come on my show.

Yep, that's a great strategy.

Yeah, it's a great strategy, but you got to be clear to what it is, you know. And now I had a client in the health and fitness space. A top, a big one, New York Times bestseller, multiple books, been on Oprah the whole nine years. And she calls me, she says, paul, the podcast is killing me. What do I do? Oh, actually, I can talk about this because JJ Virgin, you can put this in the show notes. I got a Medium article about this JJ Virgin. The show's killing me. I hate the interviews because they were celebrity docs, you know, they had all these requirements, you know, they wanted to review everything. They wanted the air, touch, pictures, they wanted all this stuff and it was even live. Here's the funny thing, Todd. Yeah, exactly, exactly. And I think she'd agree. When she did those shows, the interviews consumption was 40%, which is the average consumption for an interview show. So when she did these shows, and for those of you who are listening to the audio version of this, we're pointing a finger gun to our necks.

Yes.

When she did the interview shows, the ones she hated, people hung up before they were halfway through it.

Yeah, they came for her, not the guest.

She started creating new content that was just her. When it was just her creating content, people would stay through to the end.

Yeah.

So the show that she hated doing because she thought that's what the industry expected of her, saw terrible results, took a lot of work and gave her a headache. The show that was off the top of her head. And you and Rob do this brilliantly. We started a show called Ask the Health Expert. People have health questions. You talked about SEM. People would say, jj, is it true that a glass of orange juice has the same amount of sugar as a Coca Cola? Like that would be an episode. She would do it live on a live stream, because some people love the live stream. So she'd answer 30 questions on a live stream and then the editor would chop those up as seven minute episodes that came out five days a week.

See, that's. I was going to ask you about the repurposing. So right there, you've 100%.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And so she did what she loved. She got the social man, social podcasters. One thing for podcasters, they're horrible. One of the most beautiful things about podcasting is you don't have to social what you had for lunch.

Yeah.

You can actually social what your new episode is.

That's right.

So I'm going live for those of you who like live. I'm going to record the episodes. For those of you who can't. I had boy in college. I'm going to date myself here. But I as dumb luck, I had a friend who used to write for Johnny Carson. So I went to school, UC Santa Barbara, about an hour and a half from Burbank, so I could take dates to go see Carson get taped. I didn't even have to stand in the line, you know.

Beautiful. Yeah.

Come on, let's go see Johnny.

Sure.

Which kids? Ask your parents. But what was beautiful was the show to see Johnny get taped was very different than when it went on the air, you know, and so you can cross purpose, you can cross promote, you know, you can do all these things, but you can also realize they are different things. And so the live show was one thing, you know. You know, you know, I never had a day to say, well, why would I go to a live taping? I can watch it on TV tonight. You know, just two different things. Now, a lot more people watched it on TV than went to the live taping, obviously. But now here's the other thing. When Carson was in front of an audience, energy, you know, the average podcaster. I'm going to record my episode eventually.

Yep.

If you tell the world you're recording it live, Tuesday at 5, show up Tuesday at 5.

That's right.

And even if nobody else shows up Tuesday at 5, you go live, because at 5:05, somebody might pop in. And if you're not five minutes in the episode, you're gonna look like an idiot to the one person who popped in. So it instantly turns on, you know. Yeah, it's just fantastic stuff.

So Live Live was able. And again, we're talking about podcasting, but this all kind of ties in with the way things are right now. Live got me. Number one, kept me excited about podcasting.

Yeah.

Because I recorded the tape and I was still live. Made me a better podcaster. Number two, because there's not as many mistakes as you can make. Number three, it opened up opportunities. I started getting called by the BBC and a variety of different says, hey, we'd love to have you come on. And BBC Asia needs a three minute at two o' clock in the morning. We're going to talk about this. Yep, I'll be there. Call me. So it, it opened up more doors. The audience was very tiny, Very tiny. Threes and fours and fives and tens were watching live. So again, it doesn't take a lot to make the show more interesting. If you get 30s, 40s, 50s, hundreds, that's even better. So on the repurposing, then, what do you feel for an average business show? How many segments can be repurposed? Is it. Every show is different there. Like she did this show on orange juice and how much sugar's in it? I would imagine there probably was, based on additional questions, maybe 8, 9, 10 segments. You could cut out and use that in social promotion.

Yeah, well, the design was ask the health experts. So people would come on, they'd ask JJ through chat. And JJ was smart enough to take a pause. And so some people are like, ooh, Q and A. I mean, the AMAs are huge. People love AMAs. And so it's basically an AMA. But she was smart enough to give it a little pause. And by the way, you have a good editor. You don't even necessarily have to have. We can slice really thinly. Thin, really slicely. And we knew that we were recording seven segments now. The cool thing was she didn't say after each. That's a good question. Hey, this is jj. Welcome to the Ask the Health Expert show, where we answer questions like we would chop that and we would edit that in later and that kind of thing. But, yeah, she knew what was going on. The audience knew what was going on. And let's face it, let's face it, Talk Saturday Night Live is really just recording your YouTube videos in front of a live audience. You know, the Tonight show now really is just recording your YouTube segments in front of a live audience. Like the world's going there anyway.

Yeah. What's beautiful about this in podcasting is you all of a sudden have a multi channel strategy just by doing the podcast. If you do it live, do it recorded. Whatever. You fill your Instagram bit. You've been able to, if you're still on X, you can still post on X. You got your Facebook clips, you've got your YouTube shorts, you've got the YouTube long, you've got the podcast delivered on every distribution channel. You can do one, one and done. And you've got almost everything filled in your social now. People will say, oh, Todd, you can do that on YouTube and get all that maybe. But you can't do that on Instagram. You're not a one and done on Instagram. You're not a one and done in X.

Now here's the dirty little. So what? Everything that you said is true. Everything you said is true. However, I'll tell you, it's hard to get Heidi and I to go to the movies anymore because movie theaters are just a mess and you know the price. You know, my entertainment center keeps getting better and better. But here's what happens when you go to the movie. Hey, we say we really don't need to get there at 8 because it's going to be 30 minutes of commercials. We end up there at 8 anyway for some reason. Then it becomes time for the traitor. So trailer one rolls and Heidi says, yeah, not for me. Trailer two rolls. And Heidi goes, I just saw the whole movie. I don't need to see that movie.

That's right.

Now what happens is a lot of people take a two minute concept, try to stretch a three hour podcast out of it, then they put the two minute concept as a reel, and then they don't know why it's not directing people to the podcast.

That's right, because people have.

And so it's back to two. What do you want the long form to do? How we know the long form is doing it? Is the long form doing it. Now, the long form might be, hey, I don't know where that minute and a half of goodness is. So I'm gonna record for two hours and then I'm gonna let somebody find the hour. The minute and a half of goodness. Great. Just don't expect anybody to do the long form.

Yeah.

You know, and it might be a great way. I'll tell you, even I think, I think you would. It might have. I can't remember if it was you or somebody else, but you know, you know, how long does it take you to write a blog? Forever. How long does it take to record a five minute video? Five minutes. Yeah. You know, and so, and the whole thing is, is if you record a five minute video and somebody only takes a minute out of it. Still time well spent.

Yeah.

So if you're going to do all these things, you have to have good long form content.

That's the key too. Always. Right.

Well, you'd be surprised. People just think, well, you know how you get long form contact by talking for two hours? No, you have long form content by having long form content.

Sometimes you Know, when Rob and I go, you know, we're an hour 15. I'm like, Rob, we're just talking to ourselves. Let's go, let's get out of here. We're wasting people's time. And sometimes we go an hour and 45 minutes, like, hey, we need to cut it off so people can get out. Yeah.

And sometimes, and this is the beauty of podcasting, boy, it's time about the know, like and trust thing, you know, everybody asks how long, how long should my podcast episode be? You know, and it's a good question. I appreciate it. The great thing is, is, is we can flip the. Because it's anytime, any place, anywhere, any device, any, any place, anywhere. I guess it's the same thing.

Yeah.

Because it's all these things we can say. How long does this episode need to be?

Yep.

Sometimes you only got five minutes, man. You want to get an audience to know like and Trust you give 5 minutes to your 5 minute topic. If JJ tried to do a 2 hour video on does orange juice have the same amount of sugar as Coca Cola?

Zero views, you know? Yeah, it's a zero listens.

Right, Exactly. So, so you got to, you got, you know, so you can repurpose. If you build for repurposing, there's this idea that like, you know, you know, there are, there are. And I don't know if anybody sponsors anybody shows, so I want to be careful. But there are, there are a highs now that will take your long form video and get segments for you. Well, if the long form video is crap. The segments.

That's right.

And if the segments are crap, then you know the list is going to be crap. And if the listens are crap, then the algorithm is not going to push you and you're actually be doing more damage than you are good.

I record a show the other day I shouldn't have recorded. I was half sick and I think, oh man, that's just. It just bad. You know, I almost kind of like hug my head like a dog. It's like, oh, I shouldn't put this out. I did because I felt guilty and in hindsight I probably shouldn't have put it out. Let me ask you a question about building a brand. I'm a big brand builder. Do you, do you feel that businesses are using podcasts to help build their brand? And if they are, when are they. Is it new business existing, trying to reach new. What are they? What's. Where does that fall in? Yeah.

So have you ever real. Have you ever read Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller.

Oh, no.

Oh, fantastic. Fantastic. Don used to be a local Portland boy, so I knew him before he was cool and moved to Nashville. But so he, you know, and here's the basic, the premise of the book. And I'll tell you this. You're like, now you're really going to read it. You know how everybody says, use story in your marketing. Use story in your marketing. Use story in your marketing. But then they never tell you how to use story marketing. Building a story brand is actually a seven step process for building a story brand. Crazy. And you could actually follow those seven steps. And so we launched the podcast for the book 18 months before the book came out. Now here's what's cool. So do we build a brand? Definitely. And this is back, you know, again, kids, ask your parents, but there was a time when there was this thing called itunes and you type in a name and it would show you the books and it would show you the shows, it would show you the movies and show you the apps and show you the podcast. Well, the cool thing was now we could put in Building a Story Brand. And if you wanted to buy the book, the book was there. If you want to listen to podcast, the podcast was there. But it was a seven step process. Step. It's either two or three of the process or maybe three or four. One of the steps in the process is you're not the hero. The client is. This is key. So Don has connections, and one of the connections he has is this little unknown podcaster named Dave Ramsey. Boy, talk about repurposing content. Yeah, so Dave Ramsey is the king. And for those of you watching at home on video, that's the book. And he actually, Toddy actually just released version 2.0, like a couple of weeks ago. So it's expanded. It's the same, you know, it's the same stuff. It doesn't change. It's just more. Yeah, Dave Ramsey is king of making the client the hero. You know, they come on the show, they do the financial freedom scream. It's. It's part of a whole shtick that Dave does. So Don gets Dave on a show to talk about making the client the hero, which Dave is king at. Dave spins an hour talking about how brilliant Don was for making that part three of the book. So then we go to Apple and we say, hey, how would you like to have an episode with Dave Ramsey where he's not talking about money, you know, dog. Dog bites man. Not a story. Man bites dog. That's a story. You know, Dave Ramsey talking finance is not a story. Dave Ramsey talking anything other than finances is a story. Bam. We tell Apple, Apple puts it on the front page of itunes. Again, kids, ask your parents.

That's right.

And so, yes, the brand was built for the show. Now, the whole reason I told that story was he has a concept called caveman.

Okay?

This is the concept of caveman. Caveman should look at your show. Caveman should grunt, and caveman should know what your show is about.

Exactly.

Okay, Now, I have a client, and he gives me permission to talk about this. His name is Joe Polish. Joe has a show called I Love Marketing. Can't get more caveman than that.

That's right.

It's about marketing. The love means it's playful. And if you look at the logo for the artwork, it's a play on the old I heart New York thing. So anybody our age, again, kids, ask your parents. Anybody our age knows that this wasn't done by a 23 year old. So it's the perfect caveman show. Now, Joe has a mastermind group called the Genius Network, and he has a show called the Genius Network Show. Nobody knows what a Genius Network is. You know, guess which show gets 10 times the downloads of the other show. You know, so branding is really, really powerful. And branding really, really helps. Because the thing is, if I search the Internet now, Todd, you can pull up screens right now let's do something for the video version of this. Let's see how many podcasts there are called Thinking Out Loud. And let's do one page at a time here.

Thinking out.

Thinking out loud. Everybody says, oh, I'm just gonna do a podcast where it's me just thinking out loud. Now, one of the things about Thinking out Loud is that of course you have no idea what the show is about. So you didn't answer question number one. Therefore, you didn't answer question number two. So thinking out loud. Go to Apple. Go to Apple.

Go to Apple. Okay.

Yeah, you got to see the pages of this. This is so good. And for those of you listening at home or on the audio version of this.

I'll do it right here.

Yeah, yeah. And then search thing out loud. There we go. So good that we can do this on the web now. Okay, so he's typing and thinking out loud on Apple Podcast now. Now type shows. Now. So there's page one of shows called Thinking Out Loud. And then you can go page after page after page. There are like 18 pages of shows called Thinking Out Loud at Apple Podcasts.

How do you get.

Because it's not very caveman.

That's right. No caveman.

You know, and so you can. You can brand the show if it's branded intelligently, but if it's branded, you know, as cool as Todd Cochran is, as cool as Paul Colligan is, you notice our shows aren't called the Paul Culligan show, and our shows aren't called the Todd Cochran because that's not the branding that we're trying to.

No.

And so you can brand the show. And the great thing is, I love marketing. It's a show about marketing, and people would love it. Who would want to join that? People who don't care about marketing. And guess what his audience is. People care about marketing.

Yeah.

We talked earlier about the Nevada real estate show. You know who doesn't want that? Oregonians.

Great. That's right.

He doesn't want Oregonians listening to it. You know, because when your metric is you're helping people find their home in Nevada, you don't worry about the downloads.

Yep.

You know, and the win is not, you know. You know, I'll tell you, man, my little client, with his $3,000 conversions, one out of every three, with less than a thousand downloads per episode, he's making so much more money than any of the major podcasters are. And he's not worried about the numbers, or at least those numbers, the download numbers, if you will.

I know.

I had a client. You'll love this. A guy calls me. He says, so my show's getting about a million downloads per episode. No, it isn't. No, it isn't. Yes, it is. Let me show you the stats.

We had both had the same reaction.

Yeah. Yeah. We log on. No, it isn't. We log on. The stats, and he's got a million downloads. Well, 999, 500. Some odd downloads are coming from Bangladesh.

Oh, wow, Great market.

And I said, dude, they're all coming from Bangladesh, because. Yeah, totally.

Yeah.

I'm like, what do you mean? He goes, well, we're working with this conservative radio network who is worried about being censored, so they've moved everything offshore. Like. Yeah, that's not the way podcast stats work. You know, and his thing is. Well, that's not what my podcast guy says.

Right.

Guess. Go with your podcast guy. God, just go. You know, and. But yeah, so you can brand. And the thing is, nobody wants to listen to. I mean, you know, Joe Rogan is an anomaly, you know, and, you know, even, you know, some of the other anomalies out there I don't even want to give names because we'll date this. I think so far, everything we've talked about is pretty, pretty timeless. But, you know, there are anomalies out there that. But you're not gonna win on the anomaly, but if you win on what you're about, you know, and that's part of the branding. So brand, but brand caveman. You know, our mutual friend, you know, Daniel Lewis. Daniel Lewis had this thing called the Ramen Noodle. It was a clean comedy podcast. The Ramen Noodle was an homage to the days when all he could afford was ramen.

That's right.

You know, you know who looks up shows called the Ramen Noodle? Japanese food enthusiasts.

That's right.

You know what happens to Japanese food enthusiasts who get a clean comedy show? They hang up.

Yeah.

You know, he just added the Ramen Noodle Semicolon. A clean comedy podcast. Personally, I told me, just go to clean comedy podcast.

You know, it's. We had a top guy in the world that was. I'm pulling a blank here. But he was a surgeon, a neurologist, and he was top. He was like probably top 50. And he had a little neurologist podcast. Thousand neurologists listened to that show and man, the offers just came like crazy. So it also goes into having. If you, if you are the niche, this is, this is a huge opportunity. If you are actually the, the business niche, if you're the expert, if you are, if you are that man or woman, the opportunity to actually truly monetize then is probably far and exceeds maybe what your business is making now. His business was very successful, had a bunch of doctors and. But he was getting $20,000 an episode and his partner said, you have to stop doing the podcast because we don't have enough write offs for the money that you're making on this show. So he walked away. He walked away from $80,000 a month because it was causing a problem tax wise for his business. Now isn't that a nice problem to have? I think I'd have figured out how to pay Uncle Sugar.

Sugar, yeah. Find a guy.

I figured out how to get some tax deduction and paid Uncle Sugar his due. But I think businesses also have to understand that if you are the leader, if you are the king of the hill, you best have a podcast. And it doesn't have to be about selling. Right. It has to be about educating and make them wanting to work with you because none of us want to sit through infomercial of the problem they solve.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, if you did a show that was expertly produced, that was filled with the top experts that was amazing people about how to educate your homeschooled child so that they make it to Harvard, you wouldn't sell a lot of Blueberry as a result.

Right.

Like, you know, and I ask people, what do you want the show to do? I want. I want people to come to my business. Why are they going to come to your business? Well, you know, they're going to hear about me. Where are they going to hear about you on my show? Well, are you going to talk about it? No. We got to connect it.

That's right. It has to be a connected dot. Yeah, yeah.

You have to, you know, what are you trying to do this for?

Yeah.

And then I'd say, you know, and it's funny, that success you said with that neurosurgeon, Todd, a lot. A lot of people like it, you know, and. And the thing is, you have your podcast doing really, really well. Maybe figure out how to capitalize on that as opposed to shutting it down out of panic.

Yeah. And you know, and believe me, it hurt me a lot because I got 30% of that 20K, you know, one show, you know, those are, you know, those, again, are those unicorns. And he could in his own right. He was the Joe Rogan of his niche, you know, but, you know, again. But what do you, you know, what do you tell folks then on production? All right, because, you know, this has got to be the hardest part of the discussion is. All right, we have a goal. We're going to shape the content to meet the goal. What is. What is. What is your production best practice advice to a. To a business?

Well, it's all based on how the production help you with the goal of the show.

Yeah.

You know, so if you, I mean, you're really. Let's go back to that real estate example. Your real estate agent drives a Beamer because they want to show you how successful they are because they're going to be successful in selling your show. It's a proposal.

It might be rented.

Yeah, yeah. Rented, totally. But they still, you know, rent your studio.

I mean, not rented, but least.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, but the thing is, you know, you know, so you got to have a show that reflects what it is that you're trying to tell people.

Yep.

You know, you know, if Blueberry doesn't have a bunch of gear in the background and they're positioning themselves as one of the top in the space, are they, you Know, you know, if it's, it's a phone that he's holding and just shaking up and down important tripods are, you know, that's not going to work. And so you got to have a show that matches what it is that you're doing.

Yeah.

And then it's back to that whole thing. And again, that's why I ask, you know, the question they ask, of course, after what kind of microphone they should buy is what kind of camera should you buy? You know, what do you want the show to do? You know, just ask yourself what's going to be required for the show to do that. Now, one of the top business shows in, in the more marketing entrepreneur world, the guy like, hey, to be this successful, you know, you kind of got to show this in the video and you got to show it and that kind of stuff. And he agreed. And so you know what he did? He killed the video podcast version. It's just the audio version. And, and the paradigm for the show, the model for the show was I'm going to hit the record button on my phone and I'm going to record the podcast on the way to work. And so you went for the car with this guru and you know, and the great thing, because there were no pictures, it could have been a Tesla, it could have been a, you know, a beat up 52 Ford. You know, it could have been anything. And yeah, you just got to match what it is that you're trying to do with a presentation that you're trying to do now. Joe Polish, I love marketing. Joe has an episode with Joe, I swear was on an analog phone line in the tunnel under New York. I swear that was his microphone.

Yeah, yeah.

His assistant was using WI fi back when WI fi wasn't necessarily solid as it is today.

Right. But still, is it?

Yeah. They had on the show Tony Robbins, who was bragging about how far Tony was from his house in Fiji on the beach recording this thing via Skype. The audio is painful. It's painful. No matter how much we try to clean it up, no matter how much we tried to. It is painful. But the storytelling of Joe with a bad connection and you know, the WI fi and then Tony on the beach and trying, what did Tony say? But here's the thing. Now Tony there, Tony's not without podcast content. But here's the thing, Tony's always on book. They got Tony off book. They got Tony to tell the truth. They got Tony to tell it like it is. Very few recordings out there of Tony off book as A result, that whole painful, terribly produced podcast is one of the most popular episodes because it's a thing they couldn't get elsewhere. And Tony talks about really why he loves marketing, you know, and so I. I love. I love revisionist history. And there's this moment in revisionist history where he gets.

He.

He has a clip from George Will, and the audio is crap. The audio is just crap. And that guy has a huge budget. He's doing amazingly well. And then after the quote from George Will, he goes. If you wonder why George Will sounded like he was recorded on an. On an Olympus$30 recorder that I bought at Thrifty off of my really cheap cell phone, you know, and speaker mode, it's because it was recorded on an Olympus device from my speakerphone. Because when George Will calls, you don't tell him to call back when you get the audio.

Right, Right.

And so it went from bad audio to the storytelling. Now you have this vision of Malcolm Gladwell by the side of the world holding his Lipus quarter while he's talking to George Will. And it becomes fun. So the production has to match the story that you're telling. You know, if it does that, you're fine.

You know, we're getting ready to do some new series, and I've got one of my team members, we're building up his motif in his studio, and I've been like, we gotta change the wall. Gotta get you some lights. We gotta make sure the camera's good. 20 years ago, all we cared about was the audio. But now, you know, the video better be clear. The audio better be clear. People will forgive you. For on most times, I'll forgive you if your video is a little bad, but if the audio is bad, they'll punch out. Unless you say there's something so compelling.

Why the audio's bad.

Yeah, yeah. And why happen. And you know, the backstory, then it becomes cute and it's part of the story. So I agree with you.

Let me give my favorite video camera hack. Most of the planet is iPhone. You might not be you still, Andre.

I have both.

Yeah. Okay, There we go.

Smart.

Smart. Actually, I'm both too. Just the one I carry in my pocket is the iPhone. The iPhone now has a thing called continuity camera, where if your phone is on the same network and is the same login as your. As your Mac is your iPhone becomes the camera.

Yeah.

And it's fantastic. And you can link to this in show notes. I did a. Just to test this, like three years ago. I just wanted to see how good it was. So I literally ran the screen recorder while I was testing it. Like, holy crap, this is amazing. The video is called like, just how good is continuity camera? Something like that. And it's what I use now. So this, this, this camera here is an SE2 from like what, five or six years ago. And you know, I was on the phone with a client, a potential client, sales call, and he goes, one day we can afford you. You know, which I kind of like because it keeps my rates high. But he goes, in one day we can afford cameras like the one you're using right now. Like, dude, this is a $200 iPhone SE that you probably have in your drawer. So yes, deck it out, make it nice. But man, leverage the tech that you got right now. We can clean it. Yes, yes. Todd, the bad audio thing, you know, this just hit me. You know, we've been saying this for years, but here's the thing that's even worse than bad audio. We can fix bad audio now with a couple of clicks with AI. So if I'm telling you I'm so important that I can't spend 30 seconds clicking a button to clean up my audio for you, you know, I'm not that important.

That's right. You know, it's just like this studio motif. Most people that maybe are watching this first time don't know that about May of this year. I was not any fault of my own. I lost my lease in my studio, so I had to relocate everything to my home. And people say, oh my God, you got to. You had to build a studio in your home. This is just a 10 by 10 area and just enough room to keep the camera from seeing what is out on the sides. And it works great. It's lit with non expensive lights. You know, there's a little bit of tech here that's a little expensive, but you don't need to have this expensive tech anymore. You look at some of the stuff that's out there, it's pretty amazing. Paul, we've covered a lot of ground here. Is there anything that I've missed that's pertinent as a business, for a business to consider in doing a podcast?

Well, I'll tell you, these four questions are, I don't care who you go with, Todd. You know, one thing I love about you, Todd, is just sometimes your fault. You care more about the industry of podcasts than you even necessarily do. Blueberry.

Oh, I care about that mystery a lot.

Yeah, you do. And ask yourself the four questions. And obviously question number Three, and question number four, you can't ask until a couple of episodes have gotten out the door. But question. What do you want to do with the show and how we know the show is doing it? If you can't find help through consulting or through how to books or videos or whatever that can answer these questions, you know, run away now.

Yeah.

When we started, you know, I mean, Todd literally handed me a book, it was this thick on how to put a podcast on my ipod. Things have gone a little bit easier.

You know, And Paul, I was asked to write that about six weeks after pulling a microphone up to my face for the first time.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You know, solid book. It's still there.

It's.

Yeah, but. But, you know, you know, to put this into perspective, people, I have a book.

Well, you've got one, too.

I have a book called the Beginner. Well, no, I'm not sure. Yeah, there's my books.

Yeah.

I have a book called the beginner's guide to the Internet.

Right.

It's like. It's like four inches thick. Here's the funny thing, Todd. There's three whole pages about this new coming thing called the web. This was a book back in the Archie days. So now kids, ask your grandparents on that one. Yeah, Archie and Gopher and that kind of thing.

So newsnet News.

It's a historical moment, my friend, but it just. It's gotten easier. It's gotten easier. Back then, we could barely. We could barely figure out how to tell people what a podcast was.

Paul's being shy. Paul has a few books under his own name and podcast.

I have a few books under my own show.

I did one, you did multiple.

If you want those four questions, there's a book called never go shopping when you're hungry.

Oh, that's true.

Those four questions.

Yeah.

And. But the thing is, if you can't answer those two questions. Stop. It's not about the microphone. It's not about the set. You know, all these things are sub. What kind of microphone you need. And it's. Oh, Todd, my wife, she's actually getting her counseling. She's getting her counseling masters. And they're in the. They're in the process now where they're working with students and stuff.

And.

This is. This is Joe for podcasters. Guess what? You know, a lot of the people to record these sessions, block bop, blue yetis, you know, they don't know how to use them. So even in the psychology arena, the microphone is hurting us. Yes.

I have a prop somewhere back there. Never used it.

A prop. Exactly. A prop. Not a tool.

It's a prop. No, it's a prop.

And so those questions go first. And what's neat is if you don't have the answers to those questions, it's one of two things. A, podcasting is not for you, and there are some people who podcasting is not for. I haven't met him yet, but I'm sure there's somebody out there. Or B, ask the questions again. You know, I had a client, Todd. Oh, my goodness. We went through the whole process. We have a whole process. And he goes, this sounds great, Paul. I'm gonna totally go with you. But first, he bought, I kid you not, he bought a punch card. I bought a punch card of 200 episodes that I have to use first. So some event somewhere, he was able to buy a punch card where he got 200 episodes for, I'm sure, a really cheap price because, you know, he's not gonna record more than three.

Right.

You know, at that kind of rate. But like, like, you're not, like, dude, you're not going to come back. You know, you're going to get burned out so fast. The reason that we always talk about pod fading, we talk about how, you know, podcasts don't last because they don't.

Know what they're doing and they don't plan. They don't have a.

They don't know what they're doing, they don't plan, they don't know why they're doing it. Yeah, you know, all the. All the anchor podcasts, you know, the one point, whatever million anchor podcast, I.

Think it's about 3 million. One was test, test.

Does this work? Does this work? You know, come back because, you know, I kind of like the fact that, that you charge because, you know, only people. Nobody's going to go on just kicking the tires. They're actually going to be, you know, happy about this. But, yeah, answer those questions first, you know, and it doesn't have to be me who fixes it. It doesn't have to be, you know, it doesn't have to be Blueberry, where you hosted. It doesn't have to be any of these things, but just answer those questions because when you're done, you could be at a good place. And let me give you one, one final. Had a client, really interesting situation he was dealing with. It was also financial management, but it was financial management in the last days. And his average client was literally over the age of 70. And the question was, how much do the 70 year olds listen to the podcasting on their iPhones, you know, and this was a while ago. And I said, that's a good question. That's a legitimate question. But we asked the show, what do you want to do with the show? I want to educate my audience on what's possible.

Great.

How do you know if the show is doing it? Will they get educated and they come back to me?

Great.

So I said, what about this? What if we took these episodes and what if we burned them on a cd? Because whoever came to your office, they came in a car that had a CD player.

That's right.

And you gave them a copy of the CD and the content you've already produced. You don't ask me. They got a podcast. Great. Here's a CD that's got all the answers to it. So, yeah, they didn't become a big podcast, but they produced three CDs. Back to the repurposing question. They produced three CDs worth of content that they could send everybody home with.

Right.

And if you get past that podcast. I remember I was in a hotel room trying to make sense of Stitcher. The fact that Stitcher died, anybody in the industry is not surprised. But I was trying to make sense of Stitcher, and I was listening to somebody talking about Stitcher on Stitcher, and the podcaster said, if you're listening to my show on Stitcher, I don't want you to be listening to my show. Which was weird because I was listening on Stitcher, and you don't have to put it on Stitcher. So there's a whole bunch of questions there. But it's your content that's important. Podcasting is just a really easy way to deliver it. It is, you know, so what do you want the show to do? How you know that the show is doing it now? Once you've been doing it for a little while, is the show doing it, and then how do you do it better? And by the way, you know, if it's ads, you know, it. You know, if I want to catch enough people in this industry that I can sell ads, great. It guys like Blueberry, that'll set you up, you know, you're in a good place.

And I think. Go ahead.

No, you know, you just have to, you know, you know, I'll tell you, it is easier to make money selling your own stuff than it is to sell other people's stuff.

That's right.

What about Joe Rogan? Joe Rogan. So I got. Here's a fun Joe Rogan fact you might not know this one. There's a company that paid me some consulting money to investigate a possibility of having an alternative podcasting event. Because you and I both, you know, the events are there, but they're not necessarily what they could be. And so there's this expiration of the event. One of the things was, you know, what would it take to get the keynote that would bring everybody over? Well, the keynote that would bring everybody over would be Joe Rogan, so. Yeah, exactly. System Temple. Here's the thing. He won't do a keynote about podcasting.

Makes sense.

You know why? You know why?

Because he doesn't consider he can go.

To that same town, he can go to whatever venue he wants, he can sell out the whole room and he can keep 90 of the tickets, you know, which makes a lot more money than any keynote on podcast.

That's right.

I think so, yeah.

I think if we go back to the beginning, if you're a business today, number one, obviously Paul's got a great company at Podcast Partnership and we'll let Paul share his information here in a minute. But whoever you hire, be very, very careful and vet them thoroughly because sadly, what ends up happening, at least 5 out of 10 times I'm coming in and rescuing your show because some so called consultant hadn't a clue about anything. And while you created great content. So be careful of who you hire and, you know, talk to Paul. You know, I trust Paul. I've known Paul for many, many years. There's others out there. But I think those of you that have been with us today can understand Paul's mentality and where he goes. And I, I think it'd be great for any business that's looking to truly grow a podcast and reach the goal they want to reach. How can they reach you, Paul?

Podcastpartnership.com all the stuff's there, you know, the idea and part of it is partnership. We don't sell punch cards. You know, you're not going to drop files into a Dropbox folder. We're going to make a podcast out the other side. That's not how we work. You know, it starts with ready for this? A conversation about what you want the show to do, how you know the show is doing it, you know, and then what it is like to build a team that figures out how to do the rest. But podcastpartnership.com has everything you need.

And for the record, Paul and I have no financial relationship. Just so you know that Paul's going to suggest you go where he's going. To suggest you to go. This video is for those of you thinking about doing a business podcast. We'd love to have you over on blueberry.com obviously that would be great, but the main thing is we want businesses to get started and we hope that you will too. Any final thoughts? Is there an email address or anything?

Podcast partnershipmail.com awesome. We try to make it really, really easy, you know, and what Todd said about, you know, you know, go with somebody who's going. It's funny. I started joking about this, but it's become almost a, almost a bit of a nightmare. You know, I used to joke that there were companies who were in it for the sweet, sweet podcast money. And it's just become more true than ever. You know, when you talk to a podcast consultant, you know, should have some successes. You know, guys, for the record, our clients have seen millions of downloads, have made millions of dollars. Our shows have been on Colbert, have been on the Daily show, have been on. You know, we know how to get our clients reach for hosting. You might want to find somebody who's been around for a while. Todd, how long has bluber been around?

19 years. Going on 20.

Exactly. So, you know, you know, and it makes sense, man. You know, you don't, you don't want to hire a fat fitness coach, you know, you don't want to hire a poor financial advisor, you know, you don't want to buy a home for a real estate agent who drives a, you know, a broken down VW van by the river. You know, take that same logic to podcasting. If somebody tells you podcasting is different, run away.

The worst, even if they're at the podcasting show, the worst call my tech support folks get is someone calls a, hey, I'm a podcast consultant for Comfort show xyz and they just, there's almost a mute button that they have because they know it's not going to be a usually good call.

So hire wise, Todd, you should have, you should put this on the website now. Like have the podcast consultant line. Podcast consultant and need help. Then you give them to the, to the new person.

You know, we have a podcast consultant course coming, but we'll be, have more on that soon.

Ooh, very cool.

Yeah, because, you know, we're trying to help podcasters and it doesn't matter if their business or independence, but we are, we're out of time. We don't want to waste your time. So thanks for being here, Paul, and.

Thanks for having me, Todd. Yeah.

And for those of you that have been watching or listening. You can reach out to me toddluberry.com if you have any questions. And reach out to Paul if you're a business or anything else. Paul's a great dude from he's got the history, he's got the bones. So anyway, thanks for spending this hour with me.

Hey Todd.