What’s The State Of Podcasting? - The Podcast Report Episode #74

So what's the state of podcasting, Paul? It's the Podcast report, episode number 74, show notes, links, conversation and more. Thepodcastreport.com 74 it's the podcast Report with Paul Colligan. And here's Paul the big idea is this. Don't assume your favorite podcast has a solid monetization plan. The state of podcasting is exciting. There's plenty of great things going on, but we're not quite there yet. And that's what I want to chat about in today's episode. This is Paul Culligan. I'm a podcasting consultant, podcast executive producer, author about a couple of things podcasting. But today it's all about you, the podcaster. This is the Podcast report and you are a podcaster looking to make your podcast a real business or do more real business as a result of your podcast. I've been in podcasting pretty much since day one. I love this industry. I love you, the podcaster, and that's why I do this show. This show has never been a massive play. You're not going to see it on a top 10 list somewhere, but it's a deep one. We go deep, and today's an example of that. Today's topic, I'm closing down season one. If you missed the last episode, go ahead and take a look at that or take a listen to that. And I kind of explained some of the thoughts. I'll regroup next year After a couple of weeks hiatus. I've been kind of hinting to where I'm going and what I'm doing with that. I'd love you to be part of it. I'd love your thoughts on that. But I'm closing down for season one. And as a result of closing down, closing down, I want to do a couple of just State of Podcasting type of moments. And I thought we'd do it here with just state of Podcasting. I mean, I've learned some things, podcasting has seen some things. I've been doing the show for about a year and a half and there's just some stuff that we can take away from this. So that's what I would do with this episode and I'm glad you're here to join me. So the state of podcasting, I've got five points that I want to chat about. The first one is just clearly everyone is excited about podcasting. We had our first upfront this year. If you don't know about upfronts, I've got a link to an article about the Upfront, if you go to the podcastreport.com 74, you'll see that that's basically an industry event where people come to sell their shows and sell their advertising. It's where the advertisers and the shows and everybody meets up. Very exciting that the industry had that. That's good. Now, if you read the article, you'll notice that we're still making our case for advertising on podcasts. This great joining of people hasn't necessarily happened yet, but we've had it. Everyone's excited, but you got to put things into perspective. It's still smaller than Pandora or even Spotify. The serial episode that I did, which I have a link to in the show notes, is really important. The fact that the serial podcast has chosen to appear on Pandora and not try to expand out the podcasting space is definitely interesting and telling. But back to the excitement. We're seeing things like Google Play coming in, and I did an episode about that a couple back. Go ahead and hit the podcastreport.com 74. We're progressing ahead, but it's a cautious progression. We're excited, but at the same time, we're realistic. And I think that type of approach is exactly the way podcasters should be. Be excited, but not, you know, without reason and without purpose, without thought. The other thing, really, it's time to be honest. Podcasts are actually pretty easy for someone who wants to get them. I mean, it's built into the iPhone. We're going to have it on Android very soon. We can go to the websites, we can click play. More Americans have smartphones than don't. And I realize that podcasting is not just a North American issue, but it's a good chunk of the audience. We are at an interesting place. And basically, if somebody wants to get a podcast, they can. The problem is a lot of people don't know they want them. We just had a big family Skype call with some members of the family across the country. And, you know, I'm still doing the what is podcasting Call. Ten years into this, you know, what is podcasting call? Why do I want one? And when I told them there's a podcast app on your phone, you can get it, they were pleased they got it. They know how to use apps. That part isn't complicated. But still, good old wiifm. What's in it for me? So they're easy for someone who wants to get them. The idea still, we're still showing people that they want to get them. The third issue in the state of podcasting. And this is important, and this isn't one that we necessarily want to face. Ad rates are declining. People are paying less and less to get on podcasts. You can hear about that everywhere. If you want to hear, you know, a definitive examination of that. The most recent episode of startup Podcast, and I got a link to that in the show notes thepodcastreport.com 74. They chat about that simple fact that ad rates are declining and they chat about the fact that they have to come up with other ways to see revenue. And actually the entire episode is about the fact that because ad rates are declining, they've got to find another way to increase revenue. And then when you combine that with the fact that competition is growing, if there was X amount of money to spend on podcasts, we're doing great. And then these superstars like cereal and whatnot come along and there's only so much to spend and we got shows with tens of millions of downloads. The money's going to go there. So they're declining and there's more competition. That one, two punch is not something we necessarily want. Number four, sobering, but important. We're a decade into this and very few have figured this out. And for some of those who have figured it out, they're not even necessarily set in their ways. I go back to that startup episode. They're still trying to figure this out. They've realized it's not just ads. And that's insightful and great audio and greatly produced. I was in a meeting with some people from a very well known podcast and a very profitable podcast, and I was complimenting them on their model and how nice it was to be profitable. And I'll tell you this, their response was, well, that's what we're doing now. But we are growing, we are getting bigger, we are upping our plans, we are upping our game. And even the profitable ones aren't necessarily sitting on their laurels. I think of some of the different podcasts out there that are known for doing well, they're expanding, they're going out there. And I think this is really, really important. I've got a link about the upfront article, I've got a link to the upfront article. And what's interesting is we're still trying to convince people, if you read the article, we're still trying to convince the world that advertising in a podcast makes sense. And that's good. And we're a decade into this. Some would say that we're educating the world about it, but really, it's the same thing trying to spend some money on what it is that we're doing now. There is $17 billion in radio ad money to be taken, but we're still trying to convince and we got to deal with that. The other thing that's kind of interesting is, and this is a twist and it's sort of the whole decade into it, few have figured it out. We've got an interesting quality control issue in podcasting. The Upfront article refers to this, but it's pretty standard, actually. That startup article, that startup episode has a lot to do with that. There are people who want to be on podcasts. The podcasts are saying no for different issues. They don't want to be associated with it. They don't want, you know, the blood money, if you will. Podcasting has always been a very idealistic format and idealistic production process. But the fact of the matter is, not even everybody who wants to spend money from that limited segment of the 17 billion is he even able to do it. In the article, Lu Deport speaks to pieces and companies that he's declined. And I think that's a good thing. I think podcasts obviously need to really focus on who it is that we want to promote, what it is that we want to be when we grew up, what is it we want to look like, what our legacy is, all those things. But, you know, we're decade into this and we're still trying to, to figure it out. I think one really important thing about this Serial on Pandora thing was it was easier for Serial to go to Pandora than it was for them to increase their podcast audience. And this is really important. NPR smart. You know, the guys in public radio behind all this are very, very intelligent. And if the move to another platform made more sense than expanding podcasting, I think it's something that we want to examine and we to take a look at as well. There are other platforms that deserve this content. I've spoken to that in past episodes. I think that's really just important to deal with here. And then finally the last element, I think this is really important. There are certain players in our space that are defining the space, whether or not they should. And I don't mean to speak ill of anyone here, I just mean to speak to the elephant in the room, John Lee Dumas and what he's done. And we've had him on the show and John's a friend, but there's this huge association of people who feel that podcasting is a five day a week interview. Format and you can only listen to so many interviews before, you know, you get bored. And the idea that podcasting is for entrepreneurs and the idea that podcasting is other people's content and that kind of thing. John has defined some industry dialogue. I mean, the last couple of podcast movement events have been, you know, in large response to the elements that John brings to the game. And not necessarily right or wrong, but there and then we'd look at the other side, we'd look at Cereal, who's come to the game with incredibly high production values, incredibly high costs, incredibly high, you know, rates, demanding. But are they profitable yet? We've seen from Startup, you know, I mean, you know, a couple episodes we said, I can't remember if it was 1.4 and 1.5 or 1.5 and 1.6. But the good news was, you know, 1 point something in ad revenue, but unfortunately, 1 point something plus another 100,000 in expenses. So Serial has changed the game. And an element of podcasting that doesn't get a lot of attention is the tech podcaster Leo laporte in that group. You know, Leo, for the last five years or so has been saying that podcasting is kind of flatlined. When really the issue here is not that podcasting is flatlined, it's just that all the tech podcasters got on this early because this made sense to them. And there's just a limit to the amount of people who are going to do this unless something pretty radical changes. And I don't think it's going to radically change. This isn't a discounting of podcasting. This isn't a bad point of podcasting. It's just knowing what it is that you're dealing with. So, you know, the five points to the state of podcasting, again, everyone's excited. Podcasting is actually easy for somebody who wants to get them. But ad rates are declining. We're a decade into this and few have figured it out. And then finally there are certain players defining the space regardless of if they should or not. So what do you do about it? What do I do about it? Well, a couple things. What I'm doing about it, it's really funny. As I get deeper and deeper into this, I realized that nothing has changed, really, strategy wise, since. Since I started this. I never saw podcasting as a big, massive. I never saw it as a flourishing industry. And, you know, to produce a show aware of who your audience is and to do a monetization strategy for it makes a heck of a lot of sense. Somebody else's ads on my podcast, somebody else's ads on my clients podcast has never made sense to me and so what I'm doing with it is I'm just doing with what hasn't made sense. And it looks like the industry is kind of proving that more so, however, a little bit more specific. I'm definitely more into building podcasts for the long game. Now that's kind of difficult to do with the podcast report as we take a look at what's going on in the industry and we definitely have moment in time type of things. But realize my next show and several of my client shows are being designed specifically to be there for the long game. Five years later, listen to it and still enjoy it. Spoken in the past of just Seinfeld's legacy and that type of thing. I think we'll be seeing that on podcast. If I make $100 from a show, you know, that's not much. But if I make $100 from a show episode every year, that becomes interesting after 10 years, it's a thousand bucks for an hour or so in front of the microphone. And obviously those numbers scale to however you want them to scale. But definitely producing podcasts for the long game. I've honestly, you know, most of you know, I come from the world of Internet marketing. Internet marketing tends to chase the latest, greatest, next best thing. And in my age, as I'm slowing down a little bit and focusing a little bit, you know, maybe there's some damage that's done there. But definitely building podcasts for the long game. I'm going to as I mentioned earlier and you can listen to the previous episode if you'd like to Closing down for season one, revamping this for season two. One of the big things is just more purposeful monetization strategies in season two. One of the big things is just constant one more time content distribution past this channel. I'm only going to get so many podcast downloads. Serial is only going to get so many podcast downloads. Startup John Lee Dumas, Leo Laporte all of us are only going to get so many downloads and the content's bigger than podcasting. So content distribution past the channel. And then number two, I'm going to be looking at opt ins ways to communicate external to the podcast. I'm going to be looking at definitely email opt ins, but there's going to be phone opt ins. I played with that at the beginning of the season. Unfortunately the tech that I was using went awry. Definitely going to the app and you'll be hearing more about the app in future episodes and definitely the website and that type of thing. That's going to be a new way to reach people. The app market is pretty tremendous, pretty significant. And then two just the distribution models past the podcasting apps. Transcripts. I doubt we'll see me on Pandora or anything soon, although I definitely want to play with that. What do you do with this? Well, you as a podcaster you want to think about a a strategy that doesn't depend on third party ads, be a distribution model that doesn't limit itself to podcasts and see a content creation model that plays the long game. I think if you do those three things, podcasting will do better for you. That's the state of podcasting. Maybe it'll change, maybe we'll update, but I don't know if we're going to see big changes past anything unnecessarily said here other than we're 15 years into this, the model isn't there in ads. 20 years into this, the model isn't there in ads. I'd love your thoughts on this one. The podcastreport.com 74 would be a great place to do it if you want to do the social thing. The podcastreport.com Twitter, the podcast report slash Facebook would be great. Links I've got here the podcastreport.com 74 I've got the podcast book, I've got podcast cart SMS to opt in. One of the things I'm definitely playing with next year I've got a link to that startup episode that I mentioned, an article about the podcast upfront that I spoke to and then a link to my episode about serial and a link to the episode about Google Play and why that's important. Episode 74 of season one next week is going to be the big live show and there could be information about that at the website, at the podcast report.com forward/ as well as out@the podcastreport.com Facebook. Would love to have you on that. If you can't attend live, don't worry. Of course we'll take the recording and put it in the feed. But subscribe to get the past episodes of this season and then when we launch again next year with season two. Would love to have that stuff come to you automatically. You can go to the podcastreport.com iTunes or forward/stitcher pocketcasts, tunein forward/spreaker iheartradio overcast. Google Play will be live as soon as Google Play has something to give us, but I have a feeling that is coming soon. Email is the podcast reportoutlook.com Love reviews iTunes Stitcher will be the two places I'd like them right now. Love to hear what you think about this one. The podcastreport.com episode 74 episode 75 live for those who come to the event and and in the feed for everyone else. Thanks so much. Chat with you soon. Bye.