PARTNER MARKET FIT: Leveraging Partner Programs To Generate Mutual Value with Patrick Biddiscombe, Part 2

So that's worth calling out though because you're talking about the economics component of it and not every partner program. I mean there are, to your point, there are some that, that offer Rev share, some that offer, you know, like MDF or other components that make the, the partnership itself mutually beneficial. What about the ones that don't? So have you explored, I don't know about your relationship in terms of depth with Salesforce, but like you know, were they giving you rev share or was that more of a mutual technology benef and or to your point earlier on around like time of stage of evolution. So the TAM was big enough, the opportunity was real.

Yeah. So the HubSpot, sorry rather Salesforce was in the late majority at that point. Right. So they had moved away from actually offering any commission, any incentive and they said basically your incentive is you get a customer on Salesforce. Right. Which you get to do. The implementation and implementations in the Salesforce ecosystem could be highly profitable, fairly significant in revenue and so they were able to command that level of lack of incentive. I only think that happens at that size. I mean you're talking about one of the biggest software companies in history be able to command that lack of incentive. So I wouldn't recommend it, especially if you're earlier and I imagine a lot of the folks listening are on the software side or earlier in their, their SaaS evolution. I think really, I think HubSpot nailed it. They, the fact that they did lifetime value allowed me to build my business around them versus a 1 year, 10 or 20% commission which would just help me pay my sales reps and maybe do some co marketing and those types of things. So you know, it, it's real revenue for us now. You know, it hits right to the bottom line. So I, I would recommend that especially in the early stage. I think as you get, if you build a giant TAM and a big software company, eventually you're going to evolve that as the economics change, you bring in different executives but in the early days over, invest in the partners and you'll get it paid back in dividends.

Yeah, yeah. There's this, this phrase that I, I, I don't think I've coined it but I say it a lot so I pretend sometimes that I own it. It's the idea of partner market fit. So like think, let's say software, obviously it tends to be my core, my core tenant and audience. And so you know, you're a software company and you're thinking about how do we add value to our customer. That's kind of old thinking. It's more like how do we gain leverage in the ecosystem, excuse me, in the market, by building an ecosystem. How do we think about, you know, delivering more integration value? How do we move our customers onto our platform faster, more effectively, things like that. There's a lot of talk around who are the right partners at the right time for the right kind of component of it. And actually you mentioned Pete Capone. I had Pete on here. Gosh, it was a while ago now. Shout out Pete if you're listening again now. But I, I mistakenly told the like the, I don't know, the telephone version of the story. You know, Pete saw some of our most successful customers were using HubSpot and a marketing agency. Then he talked to the agencies. Agencies were using it to deliver value to their customers. It made sense to build a partner program. He kind of joked and laughed and said like, yeah, you're not even close. It's like the, you know, 14th iteration of that story. But if you think about it at its core, one of the things you're describing to me is understanding where you can add the most value in a software ecosystem, in a software business's customer base. And then, then looking at more specifically, okay, if we're going to go and make this investment and ingest it into the core of who we are as an organization, what's the value to us? And that's a two way street we talked about in the beginning. Excuse me. In terms of thinking about partnerships as most specifically something that, you know, goes both ways and enables both parties to deliver on not just their KPIs, but what helps them as individuals, which is really interesting. In tandem with that, is there something else you would use in terms of a framework to think about? Kind of the level two. So you've defined like who can we help? Kind of customers. That kind of stuff. You've defined the things that matter about the program itself. What about the people? Because obviously that's important to you too.

Yeah, I think that, I think it's really important at all levels of the organization that you're working with from the partnership. Really understand the motivators of the people. Right. And those aren't just financial motivators.

Sure.

I'll give it like a macro level. I could, you know, I was fairly young in my career. I was a bit of a sponge around business and something I'm really passionate about. So it was pretty natural for me. But Dharmesh And Brian and JD and McNeil were really all. And Pete were really passionate and Volpe and Robert passionate about teaching. And it was interesting inside this ecosystem, many of the partners. Right. And just how it evolved were these smaller marketing companies that went through the recession. And to me that looked like they were fairly disgruntled. Their business was kind of failing. And HubSpot brought them in, showed them a new way. And that's about as far as they took the educational learnings. Right. I remember a really good example. We'd have these partner kickoffs and Dharmesh would do this talk on why they wrote a culture code. And for years, New Breed was one of the only partners that had a culture code and took and understood what, what they did, why they did it, why this mattered, and how to apply it to our business versus versus HubSpot. I just was sitting there watching and saying, scratching my head and going, why? I mean, first of all, you got Dharma, she's brilliant. He gets up and tells you about how, how this has fundamentally changed HubSpot's culture and business. And yet everyone walks away and doesn't do it. Right. And it was. You'd showcase New Breed as like the only thing that was kind of awkward of why we were the only one that did this culture code. So at the highest level, I realized lean into they really cared about teaching and seeing that what they taught got applied back to the partners. And then if we go down another level. Right. A lot of the interesting. A lot of the middle management at HubSpot, I realized really didn't have that much exposure to executives at the highest level. I actually was very fortunate HubSpot would bring me to helm once a year. I'd be able to get time with Brian and Garmesh and other executives because we were doing quite a bit and I was a CEO and they would have that dialogue with their partners. And I used that ability for me to get in the room to highlight people's success. And I think it's really important to showcase the people that are helping you along the way and realizing that a middle management at a fast growing and HubSpot was in hyper growth, not everyone gets all that attention. And so I used my power inside the ecosystem, if you will, to really showcase the people that were helping me along the way and making sure that their company really knew the impact they were making on our business. And then if I think there at our level, right. At a cam to, you know, I'll say I was the CRO at the time, if you will.

Yeah. Front lines. Yeah.

You know, it was really thinking through what motivated you from a From a personal standpoint, right? Like I knew you were hungry in your career, you had made a switch. You needed this to economically work out, right? You're on a base variable plan. So we needed it. You wanted to get to P Club, you wanted to get to Founders Club. Those types of things I really took to heart. I mean like I literally write them down in a notebook and be like, okay, these are now part of my objectives to make sure. And then I think it's really important. One thing I did with all of the partner relationship managers that I worked with and I, for me it was fairly natural. I like people in general, but I became friends with them. I understood what the cake cared outside of, outside of work. I visited with them, we went on ski trips, we, you know, went fishing. We would do things outside of work and I generally built those relationships. Now they had great impact on economic benefit for new breed, but it made it a lot more fun to truly partner with someone and make it a two way street that we enjoyed our time together.

It's such a good call out around I, I mean first off it's like memory lanes. This is fun to do with you. But also the second piece that I want to highlight to listeners and it stood out to me. A lot of folks in partnerships talk about mutual value, singular. And I think the thing that I found intriguing, you said values, meaning the things that are important to the people. And so you know, I've had other guests talk about certainly and I want to shout them out, but I won't in terms of, you know, the better together stories and thinking about that mutual value between the businesses. But it really is about people. Business is about people. And as you know, the, the idea of ecosystem, the idea of partnerships continues to become a core part of go to market and SaaS and other industries. I think the thing people should really focus on and you highlighted it here is holding on to what values do we have in common? What are the things that we could do together to benefit certainly our well being and our pockets in terms of financial and our time spent, you know, making money for our families and whatnot. But then the secondary piece in terms of, you know, I, I give this advice to a lot of folks that say how should I think about my career? No one ever gave me this advice but it stands out in this moment. And it's three things. It's what kind of work do I want to do, who do I want to do it with and how do those two decisions impact the way that I live my life And I think what you're describing to me as a framework is thinking fundamentally from a business perspective, first and foremost about what are the organizational opportunities that I see in a business. Second to that is obviously by investing in a partnership with that organization, what are the benefits, both from a revenue output and certainly KPI's perspective, but also those better together opportunities and stories for the customer and for your organizational growth. But the third, which I think is probably number one, knowing you the way I do, how do the people connecting to me now help me and I conversely help them get better, grow, you know, really drive forward in their own lives towards the things that are most important, family and you know, friends and your point ski trips and all the things that make us human. I think bringing that into partnerships is really the way to, to solidify relationships like we do and certainly grow better together. It's a great.

Yeah, I'll give, I'll give everybody a warning. Like I'm a big believer in hybrid and the remote workforce. So everyone who's a partner manager out there, someone that's managing a partnership on the other side, at minimum twice a year, get on a plane, get in a car, go do something together in person, have one day be focused on brainstorming, work, evolution, whatever that is, and then go do something fun together. I think it's a really easy excuse to say great, we're in a hybrid work environment or remote work environment and so I'm just going to have a virtual relationship with them. I think you're going to get to get a whole lot more out of the partnership from an economic standpoint. I think you're going to get a whole lot more out of the partnership from a connectivity standpoint. If you take that time, invest in the partnership, get, get on a plane, get in the car, go, go do a brainstorming session, go do a strategy session and then go do something fun together.

So it's a great way to end this episode. It really, I think for me was fun to, to reminisce and go back. I appreciate your insights into thinking about how early new breed, late new breed and now growth new breed, if you look at the long term, has all centered around thinking about those three components. Again to reiterate, in terms of what's the mutually benef outcome in terms of the actual, you know, Tam, the dynamic of the software, the dynamic of the opportunity, the relationship itself, in terms of the actual partnership benefits in both directions, then the people, that part that I think sometimes gets lost altogether. If folks want to get in touch with you if they want to reach out, where do they find you? On the Internet?

Yeah, check me out on LinkedIn. So just slash. I got a really easy last name. So it's just slash P Bitascombe. And I'm sure Barrett will drop it in the in the show notes and I'll just end with, you know, have some fun with this. Partnerships can be an amazing thing. Make it a two way street. I can tell you we're a perfect case study yesterday when Newbreed just got named HubSpot's top partner in North America for the third time in a row. It's just continue to lean into it. I think it's a great business model. It can be a lot of fun and I can tell you if you do it right, it will change your relationships with people in a great way.

I love that. Perfect way to end it, my friend. Thank you again. It's been an absolute blast. Folks listening, remember to like subscribe. Follow us. We're on YouTube, Apple and Spotify and certainly anywhere else you want to check us out. We appreciate it and enjoy the rest of your day. Patrick, until next time, my friend. Take care.