Erin & Shawn have found a balance to money with compassionate guidance

Hey everybody, this is Penny Kidd with Pennywise Coaching, and I'm here with my friend Sean and Erin, and they have graciously agreed to kind of share a little bit of their experience with coaching and kind of what like that was like for them and, um, any, any wins or struggles along the way. They've been very transparent with me, um, and I always forget to hit record, so I'm excited to kind of visit with you guys today and share some of you know, the not even always the financial, um, win, but also kind of the emotional relational piece. So, um, is there anything either one of you want to kick us off with, jumps to your mind, how things have been?

Yeah, I'll start with a little backstory, which was that Sean and I both own our own businesses and, uh, our income is very variable. It's— we were kind of in like a feast or famine mode and I felt really overwhelmed about the kind of help we might be able to get because everything just felt so messy and out of control. Um, and when we were in feast mode, we could spend freely, and when we were in famine mode, we just put things on the credit card and kind of waited until feast mode. And we had a rough year, and that way of doing life and money was not working anymore. And so I literally was crying on a hike one day, praying for someone like you, Penny. Like, we need help, we can't figure this out. It was really causing a lot of stress in our relationship. Like, we couldn't enjoy having fun or spending money because we didn't know if we had it or not. And so it was very interesting how we met, how you were just speaking about what you do, and you know, it just was really clear that you were the right kind of person to help us not only with the money piece, but how do we change behaviors so that our money and management of it was more balanced despite the kind of feast or famine income situation we're in. And so I'm really grateful for kind of like repatterning our behaviors and helping us find a steadiness in our finances that we didn't have before we started working with you.

Awesome. Shawn, I know that I spoke to Erin's group when we were in Polka Dot Powerhouse, and she was like an instant, like, oh my God, I got to talk to you. I don't know how you felt coming into it or if you had any—

No, I was eager for this actually. And, you know, budgeting is not something that either of us had ever done. I'm an engineer and a very, you know, fairly left-brained person and like spreadsheets and all that. But actual real-time budgeting rather than just an annual look at our budget, that is something we had never done. And we have a tool now to do that, which for me, the clarity of knowing how much we have to spend and being able to spend that money, you know, somewhat freely, understanding that we have expenses and we're going to need to spend money. Having a budget enables that to be a freer experience. And also knowing, you know, what we can pay off in terms of our debt and what we can't. Doing that responsibly has been a big win for us. Uh, so yeah, totally have appreciated the program and the methodology, uh, so much, and we'll take it with us. Our intention is to use this method for the rest of our lives.

Right. I remember at first I almost felt like I was holding the reins back on Sean a little bit, like, slow down, dude, slow down. Let's look at the, at the big picture too, because he's definitely very methodical and the spreadsheet made a lot of sense to him. Not so much for Aaron, right? Um, and Tell me a little bit about that process for you, Erin, about getting on board, because I think in the past it's been like, okay, I'm doing whatever the kids need and I'm doing life.

And yeah, about that. Yeah, it was definitely— we are like classic. He's the left brain, I'm the right brain. And we've been doing a lot of work for me to have a left brain on my own and him to have his own right brain. And this felt like the next natural step. And I think I felt so overwhelmed, like, because this stuff was so natural to Shawn and his way of thinking that I was really stuck in the mindset of like, I can't do this, I don't know how, I never will, he's too far ahead of me to even be able for me to catch up. And we needed— it's like he was speaking French and I was speaking Spanish, and you taught us both how to speak English. Like, now we both speak the same language. And I think there's a lot of frustration when we'd say, okay, we should sit down and look at money because we weren't speaking the same language. We didn't have like a common language to discuss it. And so yeah, we both had to learn things, which has been very equalizing for me as somebody who's maybe this isn't my natural gift is to use my brain in this kind of way. So it feels like it's really leveled the playing field in our discussions and they feel more balanced and fair, which has been really good for our relationship. Um, yeah, as well.

Yeah. I remember feeling that way for sure in my own journey is like once we kind of got on the same page and could talk about the same things, it, it improved our marriage because then we're, you know, talking about the kids and their activities and things that don't feel like part of the budget, but they are because everything we're doing in life, whether it's travel or kids or retirement savings, all those things are connected. And then it comes down to the behavior, like, what are we going to do? And, and when you have that sometimes dramatic flex, I would say most of us have some flex in our income. It doesn't seem like very many people just have a, you know, a strict job for both of them and that's all they have. But learning to kind of ride the tide and budget, I like to budget by paycheck. Basically, you're laying out your month. But then you can say, okay, what's this one going to be like? And then when you have two businesses, that made it even a little more complicated because you couldn't say, well, this one's consistent and this one's irregular.

Yeah. And this past month, you know, Shawn was able to say, okay, my business won't be able to give as much. And then I was able to say, well, I can give much more than I normally have. And so that was also very empowering for me. So it's given me a sense of like I have power. To positively influence our financial situation. I have the power to kind of budget things now, and I think that's taken some weight off of Shawn to have to hold that all. And I'm kind of like out in la-la land. Maybe you have thoughts on that?

Yeah, I mean, I think just the, the transparency of here's what we're spending, and in real time we can make those adjustments. And we know, you know, part of this is getting used to having a budget and figuring out how much we do need to spend, uh, so that it's not just every single thing is anxiety. In my experience of it is spending money is anxiety. And, um, when you budget, one of the things it does is it frees you to not have that anxiety when you are simply buying the things you know you need to buy anyway, right? That's been a big improvement for me psychologically.

That's what I was wondering if you guys felt like, and maybe this is, well, it's probably both of you. Did you feel like it was going to be very restrictive and you weren't going to get to have any fun? And has it been that way? And what's that experience been like?

Yeah. Why don't you talk about it?

I'd say, I'd say it's generally been freer. Um, and we know when to say no. And that's, that's the thing too. It used to be that I was always trying to say no and Erin was usually trying to say yes to buying things. And now we're more aligned and there's sometimes she says no and sometimes I say no and vice versa. So that's a better balance in our relationship for sure.

Yeah. It's also made us more creative on how we have fun. Like Can we— okay, we don't have like money to do a big fancy dinner, but let's make a picnic and go on a hike, or let's do a home exchange, you know, and swap homes with somebody and go have a fun weekend on town, which we just did this weekend and, you know, spent like $200 on the whole thing. So I think the actual like fences around the finances give us room to kind of relax into the fun. Versus, you know, like, I don't know if we have money, let's just put it on the credit card, and like kind of being la-la land. But there's underneath that is this like deep sense of anxiety. Um, and yeah, and we've actually, you know, we do Facebook Marketplace trades with people now, and just it's better. We think of it more as like this gift economy of sharing our resources, and there's other ways to do commerce besides capitalism and just spending until, until you can barely breathe. Um, so it's fun. It's like a different way of engaging with the world financially, if that makes sense.

And some of that is what, what we've spent time talking about, right? Is it's not just about the numbers, it's about how else can we make money or spend a little less so that our money's going to where we want it to go, right?

Yeah. And I will say that is the part that you, Penny, like uniquely bring is that compassionate presence. Here's the mess we're in, we need to do X thing, here's the amount of money we have. In the past, we just freak out and put it on debt, you know, and there'd be all this guilt and shame. But I think your presence holding this conundrum, not getting triggered— maybe even if you felt the trigger, you didn't show it— and offering some ideas like, hey, let's just pause, let's get creative. And that's the part you pay for That's the Penny part that's unique to you that really helps us to move through those moments that used to be really tense in ways that feel more creative. So now when you're not in the room and that happens, we have that in our own nervous systems. Like, let's pause. Okay, how can we get creative? We don't seem to freak out and imagine we're all gonna, you know, die and never get our needs met ever again. Yeah, right.

I think that, that ties into kind of that emotional piece that Erin, I think particularly you're, you're really in touch with that part of your life and you work with others around that. But do you mind sharing a little bit about the emotional part of the journey for you since we've talked about the structural and the financial piece?

Yeah. I mean, I just had so much shame around this whole conversation before we started it and I felt somewhat embarrassed that I didn't know, you know, I'm like 40, almost 45, and like never really learned how to do this. Um, and I'd say I'm— could make me emotional right now, just feeling like I'm not a bad girl, I just didn't know any better and we didn't have a system. And yeah, I mean, that was worth every penny for me, is feeling— releasing some of that emotional charge around the conversation. And having grounded tools to have conversations around, whereas I used to immediately go to shame and like, forget this, I'm terrible at it, I'll never be good. And that never really helped us get anywhere moving forward.

Right. What have you noticed in your kids, Sean? What?

Oh, yeah. Yeah. That's something I wanted to talk about is we've been doing this. In parallel with raising young kids, 7 and 11, so, so kind of coming into the age of starting to have an allowance and spending their money. And the fact that we've been doing this with them conscious and aware of what's going on has been a huge help to them understanding that budgeting money is necessary and taking some of that emotion of puckering up every time we say they want to buy something transforming that into, well, we do need to buy things in life, but we need to be measured with that and understand that sometimes we have to say no. And that's just been a very healthy thing for our kids. So sort of a peripheral benefit, but one I'm really appreciative of.

Good. Yeah. And I think sometimes people think, oh, the kids are too young to learn this stuff. And I think the younger you teach it and start normalizing conversations around money instead of keeping it like, that's only for grownups to talk about. You don't have to open your books to them necessarily, but I think just starting to give some perspective about what things cost and when we can say yes and when we, we choose to say no. Oftentimes our, our words matter. I think sometimes we say, oh, I can't afford that when we know we could afford it. We're choosing not to because we want X, you know, we want to go on vacation. We want something else. It, it's not usually at least for the people I work with, a matter of I literally cannot afford it. But is it the best use of these dollars?

Yeah. And I think the big teaching there, you know, and I do mindfulness work with people and reprogramming trauma responses to more healthy ways of being, is the discernment. Like, that really is what we didn't have with our old way. And this taking a moment to pause and check in with our body, with the bank account. Like, let's just pause before we act. And that has been this huge, like, internal pattern interrupter. Or like with the kids, for example, like, you want a Halloween costume— this is like a real life example— you're going to wear it once. So the one you want on Amazon that's $75, is that the best use of our money for something you're going to wear one time? Or can we go to Goodwill and find something you like that's going to be $5? So it's like teaching them, you know, as their brains develop their prefrontal cortex, which is that, can I pause and think and not just act out of my emotional brain? It's like we're wiring that part of their brain to be like, let's see, is this something we want to spend this amount of money on? Or is there a different way to do it? So it's really fun. It's like I'm rewiring their brain as I rewire my own brain. Yeah, should be more thoughtful and mindful.

Yeah, most, most people are saying, oh, if I'd only learned this when, you know, and I feel the same way. But at the same time, I tell people, I'm like, well, you're the youngest you're ever going to be, so we can either learn it now or we can wait, you know. So, um, and if we can, if we can create that legacy of, if you build enough wealth, these children are likely to inherit a significant chunk of change, how do you want them to be with money? Right?

Yeah.

And you start thinking about that now instead of like feeling bad that you can't or choose not to buy every single thing for your child.

It's like, and we need, yeah, we needed your help. We needed your help to get the languaging and to figure it out. And so I'm just really grateful.

And it was fairly efficient, like, you know, a few months here and we've kind of got a system now where we had basically zero before, you know, what, 6 months, more, 5 months, whatever it was. Yeah, we've got a system now for the rest of our lives. And I think if we had tried to do it with a book or something like that, probably it's doable, but it also probably would have been piecemeal and fits and starts. And I'm glad to just sort of have this done and figured out. It's a good feeling.

Yeah.

And the commitment. I think the approach to the container, it's like, this is a commitment. We're going to really focus on this. Go in and make the change, and then you're on your way.

I think it's counterintuitive. And one of the questions I, I receive either directly or inadvertently is, why would I pay somebody to help me with my money? And that's a lot of money. What am I— I could be doing this with the money instead. So how did you discern whether it was worth it either at the beginning or even now, and how do you make that judgment?

Well, this was a question mark for me, as I'm sure it is for anybody who's considering buying a service like this, but, but it's, um, I do feel like at the end of the day it's probably offset, you know, in terms of our spending habits, and we've been able to pick up some better spending habits. We've said no to things, and that is part of this. It's like learning how to say no without being restrictive in every moment. And so I think that the offset's there, and like I said, the, the kind of efficiency is there, and that makes it worth it too, even if the offset wasn't there. So I'm pretty happy with the value of it.

Good.

From a, just from an analytical point of view.

Yeah. And I think about, I do think the dollar amount, like the way we showed up and we did what you were inviting us to do, like was very different than if we would have gotten a free program and a free book. And I hate to say that I am motivated by money that way, but I am. And I've gotten a lot of free gifts and programs that I've never done. And I don't, you know, or even like spend $200 on like a 6-week online program that I never do because there's not the real person that says, I, I see you, I care about you, you're gonna fall and I'll be here and I'll catch you. That's a real motivating factor. And the investment for us financially did motivate us to show up and really participate with our whole self.

And don't forget, another thing is that your ability to understand both the left brain and right brain elements of this whole discussion, which I'm sure for most people there are both of those things. Your ability to mediate that between us is a super helpful thing. It's not something you could get from a book, right? So there is a coaching, a real tangible coaching part of this that some simple little thing wouldn't have.

Yeah, and in the past, when the emotions would get wild, we just both walk away more frustrated than before, and having you as an anchor in those moments was like very much priceless to me.

Good. Yeah, there is an element of counseling to it. And I think I remember early on there being some conversations about, okay, let's get to the number. And I'm like, no, this conversation is equally important. And if we avoid those topics to just look at the number, you're missing kind of that overarching behavior and belief and time to share with each other about the feelings and the fears and those kind of things. So I think that's what sustains us for the long haul, is that it, that is hopefully a behavior that you do forever and ever. And it's the more money you have, the more you just get to tell it where to go. It's not, I think a lot of people will think because they make a lot of money, they don't need to have a budget and they don't need to have a plan. And I think the more we may have, the more, you know, it's, you're given a gift. What are you going to do with that?

You know, so here's a, here's a left brain take on that, which is it's much riskier to be a high earner if you don't have a budget. There's a lot more risk involved if you, if you don't manage money well, it's a lot easier to get into a bad place.

That's true. Yeah. Well, thank you. Is there any last, last minute thoughts I didn't touch on or ask you about that you are dying to tell people if they're considering coaching?

You know, I do think it was intimacy building between Sean and I, you know, for him to be vulnerable on months that were maybe harder on his business. And for me, it was empowering to kind of— I can bring the masculine energy and I can step up and make more money. And that felt really empowering for me. Um, and for Sean to see, okay, Erin can bring that when it's time. You know, there was kind of this equalizing in our— like, Sean doesn't have to hold all the left brain, and I can hold some of that too. So I think we've definitely gotten closer. We have more fun together just because the pressure's off. We love celebrating when we get a good Facebook Marketplace deal.

Yeah.

And even teaching the kids, you can sell something on Facebook Marketplace and then buy this other thing you want. And so they feel more empowered And I think a lot of women in marriages feel disempowered, like, "Oh, that's just not my thing." And it's pretty easy to take back our power as women to understand money, to participate actively, to sell things, you know, for women who are their own entrepreneur businesses, like, to know we can generate income and that income does help our family. And I think that's really helped our relationship and Sean's stress levels too. Very good.

And I think as we go forward and work on— I, I know we'll— you're not letting go of me quite yet, and we get to start focusing a little bit more on the business entrepreneurial budget. And it— in that realm, sometimes it doesn't— it's the same as in personal life, like you can make more and spend more. That's not the point, right? You want to do certain things with that money, and hopefully you want more of it to come home, not just buying more programs or spending more marketing or whatever the thing is. We get caught up as entrepreneurs thinking that you have to do that when you've got some skills. And now that when you think of your business money, you'll think of that differently as well.

Totally. Yeah. I kept hiring more coaches to help me generate more income, which is useless if you're not managing it.

I think, and managing it. Yeah. Awesome. Well, thank you for taking your time. Did you have something else, Sean?

I just want to say thank you. That's it. Thank you.

Yeah, it's been my pleasure. It's super fun to have you in my life, and I'm grateful.

We love Penny! Hi! She's worth every penny.

And yes, it's my real name. Thanks, you guys.

I appreciate it.

All right.