In this rapid‑fire interview, Professor Pete Alexander talks with Mark Sangster, a cybersecurity author and industry security strategist. Mark explains his work helping business leaders understand cyber‑crime tactics, navigate regulatory obligations, and build resilient security plans. He shares what makes him smile – the cleverness of modern cybercriminals and the moment a client grasps the threat. He emphasizes the critical need for clear cross‑functional communication, noting that business language (dollars and cents) often clashes with technical language (bits and bytes). Mark advises leaders not to assume they are the smartest in the room, to listen actively, collect uncomfortable data, and then delegate execution to experts, focusing on the desired outcome rather than micromanaging the process. He recommends Bob Darling, a retired Marine Lt. Colonel and crisis‑management trainer, as a guest. Mark recounts his first job measuring birds at a university, highlighting his appreciation for nature and scientific curiosity. The episode closes with information on how to find Mark online at mbsankster.com and his book “No Safe Harbor.”
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This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast, where business leaders share their insights. It is 6 questions in 7 minutes because successful business leaders are busy and rarely have more time to spare. So let's get to it. Question number 1: In a few sentences, please tell me who you are and what you do.
Well, thanks very much. My name is Mark Sangster. I'm a cybersecurity author and industry security strategist, which means I work with business leaders to help them understand the cybercrime risk the risks that they face and how they can protect their business. I help them understand how the criminals work and how to navigate the industry obligations and then build a plan to maintain resiliency across their organization.
Well, Mark, it's a pleasure to have you on the show, and I think a lot of us are going to be quite interested in what you have to share, given all the cybersecurity issues that are going on. Question number 2: What is something that makes you smile and/or laugh about working in your industry?
So this is kind of double-ended. I think the first is, you know, frankly, the genius and the ingenuity of the criminals, Unfortunately, their tactics, the campaigns they use, the email lures, they're exceptionally clever, right? It's not the sort of the Nigerian prince or the fake streaming emails that we see. I've worked and had to battle against ones that pose as graduate students so that they can befriend and then victimize professionals like lawyers and doctors and engineers and so on. But counter to that, really what I also see, it's the aha or the oh crap, or for those of you who wish to insert their own expletive here, that moment where the client understands what they're facing and I know that's the epiphany that I'm looking for because now we can start to talk about how they go about protecting their business.
Mm, that's really insightful, and I totally related to it as well because I wouldn't have even thought of a graduate student, but I have had a few reach out to me on LinkedIn, and I kind of was suspicious about it, and rightfully so. So that's a great, great thing to share. Question number 3: I have a fictitious book with all the answers for business. What chapter would you think most companies should read?
You know, I think the chapter that I would focus on is how you communicate with the various facets of your business. And in most cases, there's an expertise that's in there, right? That's within the fold of what you do every day. The problem is we often speak different languages, right? We use different jargon or different vernaculars. And because of that, I might come at you with dollars and cents, and they're coming at you with ones and zeros. And often I see that's where we fall down because we got great talent. We just can't figure out how to align them.
I love that insight. It's true, it really is. I mean, and it sounds to me like if you can align them and communicate the correct expectations, I think you're on the right road to success. Am I right?
Yeah, absolutely right. You know, plan, execute, and measure.
Yep, absolutely. Those are classic, uh, Business 101. Question number 4: Other than the generic work harder, have a great attitude, and care for customers, what advice would you give to other business leaders?
You know, I think the big thing for me is that don't assume that you're the smartest person in the room, right? I work with all sorts of professionals, you like lawyers and doctors and engineers and owner practitioners of very successful businesses, right? They're smart, they're well-educated, and they've got the results to prove it. But they often assume that that success and that capability translates to every situation that they face, and it frankly doesn't, right? And sometimes being that leader means being a follower And so, you know, it's not about deferring to the most senior person, and I see that all the time, or the loudest voice, because they don't always have the skills or the insights to make the informed decisions that they have to make, right? In other cases, I see where people are motivated by the wrong things. That's not to say they're out to cause malfeasance with the company. It's more that perhaps they're driving from fear, right? They feel they have to be right all the time, or they need to look like the hero, or they have to look like they're informed and smart and have an answer, when perhaps, uh, that's a good question, I need to take that back and think about it a bit, would be the the right approach. And this really culminates in moments of crisis. And that's where we see this. And that's where leaders really need to listen rather than think so that they can collect the right data, even the data they don't like, right? The ones that come from people, you know, that they disagree with, or the, the results that they don't want to hear, right? You know, we're in trouble here. Well, you know, maybe you need to know that, right? The ship's taking on water, so you can start pumping it out instead of denying it. And we get lost in the jargon, which we sort of touched on, right? So it's really about Being a follower, listening, collecting that data, and when you make a decision, talk about what to do. So what's the outcome? What's the result you want? Not how to do it. Leave the experts to their expertise because they know what to do once you've given them a direction, and they'll come up most of the time with a much better plan than you would.
And it's a couple things come to my mind with that wonderful insight. One is, you know, I've heard it many times before that said that if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And so it Absolutely. And then the other part is talking about once the decision has been made, letting the experts, the people who have that capability, run with it. And it's all about trust, having the trust to delegate that to someone who has the expertise to do it. Am I right?
Yeah, absolutely. I've seen times where leaders have moved to how as well as what. You know, so they said, I need you to do this. And by the way, here's how I'd like you to do it. And that may not have been the most efficient or effective way, right? Think about in cases where we have certain experts who may not be in the office. Well, you need to go talk to Professor Pete Alexander to get this done because he's the smartest guy in the room when it comes to this topic. But you happen to be sitting on a beach in the Bahamas at the time, and that may cause massive delays, right? So sometimes you need alter— ulterior approaches, and that's where you leave the experts to do their thing.
Absolutely. Very insightful. Thank you. Question number 5: What other business leader like yourself would you like to acknowledge and invite to be on my podcast?
Yeah, Bob Darling, who's a retired Marine Lieutenant Colonel, comes to mind. Now, he served in the White House, actually in the President's bunker during the attacks on 9/11, and he took what he saw there, his experiences, his observations, and he's pivoted that into a civilian life where he now provides crisis management, crisis leadership, and crisis communication training for senior executives. I've seen him work firsthand. He's inspirational.
Wow, he sounds like it. I look forward to talking with him. Thank you for that referral. And our final question, question number 6, please, tell me about your first job.
Yeah, it was working for a university where I was doing things like banding and recording measurements on small birds, things like chickadees and cardinals and blue jays, all the little critters we have in our backyard. It was really fun, but it was also really cold because those birds are much easier to find and see during the winter months. So, you know, I got used to sort of freezing, but it gave me a real respect for those animals, realizing just how intelligent, resourceful they are, and a true appreciation for the wilderness in which we live.
I love that too. Yeah, you know, it's amazing what animals can survive in the kind of environment. And that's a perfect example, what you found. So, Mark, thank you so much for being on the show. How can people find you?
This has been a real pleasure. So, I'm available at mbsankster.com where you can find out more about what I do, how I work with companies, or find a copy of my book, No Safe Harbor.
Perfect. This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast. Get hundreds of amazing business insights from previous guest episodes on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.
