In this concise "6 questions in 7 minutes" interview, Professor Pete Alexander talks with Yonason Goldson—a community rabbi, former high‑school teacher, keynote/TEDx speaker, coach, and author of Grappling with the Gray: An Ethical Handbook for Personal Success and Business Prosperity. Goldson shares why he smiles on stage, emphasizes that compliance alone cannot create ethical cultures, and argues that most business decisions live in a gray area that requires moral muscle rather than rule‑books. He advises leaders to involve their teams in decision‑making and to actively encourage dissent to guard against groupthink. Goldson also recounts a formative early job scooping ice‑cream, illustrating how frontline service taught him to treat customers with respect and read character. He promotes his co‑host Dr. Margarita Gury and the "The Rabbi and the Shrink" podcast, and provides his website and LinkedIn for listeners to connect.
Chapters
This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast, where business leaders share their insights. It is 6 questions in 7 minutes because successful business leaders are busy and rarely have more time to spare. So let's get to it. Question number 1: In a few sentences, please tell me who you are and what you do.
Thank you, Professor Pete. I'm Yonason Goldson, and I work with leaders to create a culture of ethics that builds trust, sparks initiative, and drives productivity. I am a keynote and TEDx speaker, a coach, a community rabbi, a retired high school teacher, a repentant hitchhiker, and my most recent book is titled Grappling with the Gray: An Ethical Handbook for personal success and business prosperity.
Well, Jonasson, it's an absolute pleasure to have you on the show, and I know for myself I can totally appreciate your last book in the gray coming out. Question number 2: What is something that makes you smile and/or laugh about working in your industry?
That's a really interesting question. Uh, in my professional life, I've had several incidents where people commented on my smiling. Um, one of them was right after I gave my TED Talk. One of those at the National Speakers Association conference, fella walking down the, the, the hall glanced at me and said, there it is, the biggest smile of the conference. And another one was when I spoke to a group of students in a, in a program 17 years after I had graduated that program. And in none of those situations was I conscious that I was smiling. I was in a situation where, as we say, I was right in the zone. I was in my element. You know, as a professional speaker, there is nothing more electrifying and gratifying than connecting with a large group of people for whom I'm providing value. And who are responding to the value. And one of the great moments on looking through keynote reviews, one person wrote down, "I didn't look at my cell phone once." Wow. Yes, I mean, who needs drugs? Who needs alcohol? I mean, this— it's been tough during COVID with, you know, the conference industry shutting down. So I may not have been smiling quite as much as I was before, but that sheer joy, and for any of us, you know, doing what we're what we love and what provides values to others. There's no greater thrill.
I love it, and I can hear the passion in your voice, and I absolutely love that the way, you know, it's that smiling, and it's so true because it just connects people when you can make that smile, breaks down some barriers. Absolutely love that. Thank you. Question number 3: I have a fictitious book with all the answers for business. What chapter would you think most companies should read?
First, I'd like to order a couple. I would point to the chapter titled "Compliance is the Enemy of Ethics," and the subtitle is "There's No App for Being Ethical." That's powerful. Go ahead. Well, you know, we're— I mean, especially nowadays, we've gotten in this— our culture has become so binary. We're trying to reduce everything to black and white when almost nothing is. And this is why I titled my book Grappling with the Gray, because most of life is lived in that gray area between what's obviously right and obviously wrong. And when we try to relegate or concede, um, ethical decisions to a rule book. I mean, you need compliance laws, just like you need laws in a society, but we know that there are always going to be loopholes. There are always going to be ways of distorting the letter of the law to subvert the spirit of the law. And what makes us ethical and what creates an ethical society is when we do the hard work of struggling to understand What are our priorities? You know, ethical principles don't change, but situations do. And you can put all the variables into this app, and you're not going to get the right answer. And you shouldn't, because again, it's that effort of developing our ethical mental muscles that creates a new reality for us. It makes us ethical people. It fashions an ethical society. And ultimately, success is all about relations, and relationships are all about trust, and trust is all about ethics.
I 100% agree with you. In fact, I read a book from Stephen M.R. Covey that talked about the speed of trust, and he mentions the exact same thing that you mentioned. So very insightful. Thank you. Question number 4: Other than the generic work harder, have a great attitude, and care for customers, what advice would you give to other business leaders?
Well, since I'm a rabbi, I'm going to do something traditionally Jewish and answer a question with a question.
Sure.
Um, do you know what is the first recorded advice for leaders in history?
I do not.
Well, it's in the beginning. Go all the way back to when God says, "Let us create man in our image." Who's he talking to? Well, presumably he's talking to his heavenly court. He's talking to his angels. But why is he asking them? He's not making man in their image. He's making man in his image. He doesn't need their help. He's God. It's a lesson for leaders. Include your team in the decision-making process, even if you think you know. What you're going to do. You don't expect anybody's gonna have any helpful advice. You're going full steam ahead. But first, by doing that, you show them that you respect their opinions. You show them that they're partners and not peons. You allow them to become invested, which makes them feel that they're more important, feel empowered and motivated to put more into the job. Second, if you're not God, and most of us aren't, maybe somebody's gonna have an idea you didn't think of. Maybe they're gonna see a flaw in your plan that you didn't recognize. Not only do good leaders encourage participation, they encourage dissent. They encourage disagreement. Because that's what protects us against the groupthink. You know, if we all agree full steam ahead, that's a warning. We may have missed something critical. And history is full of examples of catastrophes that happen because everybody agreed this is the right thing to do and there were no voices of dissent. So good leaders encourage participation and encourage disagreement.
I really, really like that because I think so many companies and so many leaders need to understand that because, you know, a lot of people will not be confident enough to raise questions or issues if they don't feel like they're going to be heard or be ignored or maybe be berated for, you know, questioning authority. Am I right as I'm describing that?
Oh yeah, I mean, you know, you know the joke of the boss who says to his assistant, you know, I hate yes-men struthers, don't you agree?
That's a perfect one. Yeah, I think I've seen that cartoon. Great point there. Question number 5: What other business leader like yourself would you like to acknowledge and invite to be on my podcast?
That would have to be my co-host of my podcast, Um, podcast is called The Rabbi and the Shrink. I'm the rabbi and the shrink is, uh, Dr. Margarita Gury. She is a licensed psychologist, she's a business coach, she has an absolutely sparkling personality, a delightful sense of humor, and she is tremendously insightful and an absolute pleasure to, uh, to talk with.
Well, perfect. I look forward to reaching out to her. Thank you for that referral. And our final question, question number 6: please tell me about your first job.
Well, I guess that would be scooping ice cream. And typical high school job, but I really learned a lot about business and about people. You know, counter work can be some of the most unpleasant work there is. You know, I was given hours that were terrible. You have to deal with all kinds of people, and a lot of them are not pleasant to deal with, and you have to be polite, and you have to be civil, and you have to serve because that's your job. But at the same time, the lesson for me of how to be a customer— and when I am in a position You know, who was it? One of the Harry Potter characters said, "You can tell people, you can tell who people really are by the way they treat their underlings." You know, you want to see character. And I mean, I can think of a time I was actually, I developed a skill of, I was really good at making ice cream sodas. And a guy walked in and he was grumpy from the moment he walked in. And he ordered a milkshake, and I misinterpreted the order, and I made him a soda. And I mean, you would think that I murdered his mother and burned his house down. And so nasty. And I finally got rid of him, and the guy behind him was so polite and so reassuring. Yeah, you know, he watched the whole interchange between me and this guy, and it was such a lesson for me. To see how you treat people in service, even when they make mistakes, even when they don't get it right, even when you're impatient and in a hurry and things aren't working out the way— it's not that person's fault. And even maybe if it is, people are human beings. And just as a footnote, I once served O.J. Simpson, and, uh, and that was also interesting to see that, uh, all these people in the store just sort of descended on him asking him to sign napkins. Anyway, that— a lot of education went on behind the counter.
Yeah, and the story you're telling— I worked at an ice cream parlor as one of my first jobs too, and I can completely relate to you. And I too learned the value of treating people the way you would like to be treated based on that, because yeah, you know, it's— it the general public can be very nasty, and that is an eye-opening experience, to say the least. And so I appreciate that. It really, really resonated with me. And Jonasson, thank you so much for being on the show. How could people find you?
Hang on, Professor, that's 7 questions. Sorry to throw that curveball. I only contracted for 6. So certainly on my website, which is my name, which if you can spell it, Y-O-N-A-S-S-O-N-G-O-L-D Goldsen, G-O-L-D-S-O-N, jonassongoldsen.com. I'm also very active on LinkedIn, so encourage people to connect with me there, and I'm always happy to continue the, uh, the conversation.
Perfect. This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast. Get hundreds of amazing insights from previous guest episodes on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.
