Tom Lawrence, author of Manager to Leader, argues that trust is the foundation of effective leadership. He advises developing people so they could leave but treating them well enough to stay, which drives loyalty and productivity. A dictatorial supervisor early in his career taught him how not to lead.
Chapters
This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast, where business leaders share their insights. It is 6 questions in 7 minutes because successful business leaders are busy and rarely have more time to spare. So let's get to it. Question number 1: In a few sentences, please tell me who you are and what you do.
My name is Tom Lawrence. I'm the author of the book Manager to Leader: How to Become a Highly Effective Leader. I also the founder of the website highlyeffectiveleader.com, where we develop aspiring and current leaders into highly effective leaders so that they can develop aspiring and current leaders into highly effective leaders.
Well, Tom, it's a pleasure to have you on the show. What is the question number 2? What is something that makes you smile and/or laugh about working in your industry?
Well, working in the industry, in the leadership industry for about 2 years, and what makes me smile is seeing people just be so positive and, you know, be focused on what they're doing. I've been in industries previously where it's, you know, it can be very negative, whereas in the leadership and the personal development industry that I've joined, it's just so positive. And everyone who I meet online and offline just have a great attitude, and that makes me smile.
And it's whenever you're surrounding yourself with other positive people, it makes a big difference, doesn't it?
Oh, definitely.
Yeah.
Especially when, you know, you're so passionate about what you're doing and, you know, you can appear— the person you're talking to, um, and— or talking with, sorry, um, they have the same passion, and, you know, you just, you just don't want to stop talking. I love it.
I, I love it. Question number 3. I have a fictitious book with all the answers for business. What chapter would you think most companies should read?
Well, if I pick my own book, Manager to Leader, chapter number 4 is called Trust. And for business leaders, before you can actually lead your people or influence your people, you need to have trust. Trust is the foundation of leadership. And as I say, until you have that, until you build strong relationships with your people, build trust, it's impossible to lead them.
And I would agree 100%. I had an opportunity to interview Stephen M. R. Covey several months ago, and he talked about trust as well. And he has a book that talks about the speed of trust. And it's, you know, when you have the trust in the organization, you can turn around things much faster. You're more profitable. There's much more collaboration in the organization. Is that what you've seen too?
Yeah, definitely. Especially, I mean, it's got to come from the top. It's got to come from the CEO or the managing director. And, you know, they've got to inspire the directors below them, the managers below them to build those relationships. And, you know, and basically, you know, inspire the people to build relationships with their colleagues. And that's where, as you say, collaboration comes from. And when you're more collaborative and when the teams are working together, the business becomes more profitable, as you say.
Mm-hmm, that's great. Question number 4, other than the generic work harder, have a great attitude, and care for customers, what advice or insight would you give to other business leaders?
I would say your priority has got to be your people. And you must develop your people so that they are good enough to leave the business but you treat them well enough so that they don't want to leave the business. So, you know, treat your people the way you would like to be treated, speak to your people the way you would like to be spoken to. And if you take care of your people, everything else will take care of itself. So policies, procedures, business growth, profits, all the other things that business leaders usually focus on will take care of themselves if you take care of your people.
Mm-hmm. And that's very wise. It's interesting because so much can be accomplished when the people feel valued and they're more loyal, they're more productive working for a leader who really respects them and appreciates them. Have you found that?
Yeah, definitely. I mean, I've worked with a few different types of leaders, and the best leaders to work for are the ones who inspire you, the ones who help you be your best, and the ones who, you know, who help develop you so you can, as I say, you know, you're good enough to move on to an even higher position or even take their position, but they treat you well enough that you don't want to until, you know, the time is right.
That's great advice. Thank you so much. Question number 5: What other business leaders like yourself would you like to acknowledge and invite to be on my podcast?
Uh, there's an Australian lady called Brittany Baldwin. She's the owner of TikTok Sales, and she's a sales coach, and she's coached me quite a lot in the area of sales and, and building a business. Um, and I think she would be perfect for your podcast.
That's great. I look forward to reaching out to her. Thank you for that referral. And our final question, question number 6: please tell me about your first job.
When I was 16 and I was still living in Liverpool in England, I got an apprenticeship in the automotive industry as a mechanical engineering apprentice. And what I learned from that job is how not to lead, because my apprentice supervisor was basically a dictator. He micromanaged us. He, not physically, but verbally pushed us around, and he spoke to us in quite a derogative way. And he was trying to, he was doing that to try and get the best out of us. And it didn't work. And it didn't work with the apprentices who were before me or even after me. And in the end, the business went bust. I'm not sure what he's doing now, but that's the thing that I learned from that job was how not to lead initially. And I used that time to help me in my future leadership roles.
And it's interesting how many times, you know, people can think that they're doing the right thing, as you said about this person who he thought that he was trying to get the best out of you, but through negative reinforcement and it backfires and stuff. But at least, you know, it sure sounds like you learned what not to do and were able to apply that to your future opportunities.
Yeah, it's like learning from his mistakes, basically. And he's not the only leader who I've worked with who was like that. And the more I saw it, the more it sort of came home to me that, you know, that's not the way to inspire people. That's not the way to treat people. And that's why— and that's one of the reasons why I wrote my book and started highlyeffectiveleader.com was to try and help more people realize that.
That's great. Well, it's a positive ending from that. And Tom, thank you so much for being on the show. How could people find you?
I do have a LinkedIn profile. It's just Tom Lawrence. I post twice a day on LinkedIn, so you might see me post quite a bit. I have a YouTube channel called Leadership and Growth, and it's basically leadership, personal growth, and influence— increase your influence videos on YouTube. And my website, highlyeffectiveleader.com, you can contact me on there. There's a Contact Us button that you can click, or you can— there's a website— sorry, an email address at the top called support@highlyeffectiveleader.com where you can contact me.
Perfect. This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast. Get hundreds of amazing business insights from previous guest episodes on your favorite podcast app. Thanks for listening.
