In this seven‑minute interview, Professor Pete Alexander talks with researcher, author, and executive advisor Liz Wiseman about her work helping leaders multiply the talent on their teams. Liz explains why she enjoys corporate education—seeing real‑world impact and having resources unlike K‑12 settings. She argues that the most valuable "chapter" for any company is not about answers but about asking the right questions, emphasizing intellectual curiosity and the habit of seeking what you don’t know. Her core leadership advice is to "do less and ask more," sharing the burden of thinking with the team, and encouraging contributors to work the "white space"—the tasks that fall between defined roles. Liz recommends Dolly Chugh’s book The Person You Mean to Be for confronting unconscious bias in the workplace. She shares a formative story from her first job at her father’s donut shop, where a robbery taught her the importance of rules and fearlessness, a mindset she says she has carried into her adult life. The episode ends with practical contact information for Liz (Twitter, LinkedIn, websites, Amazon).
Chapters
This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast, where business leaders share their insights. It is 6 questions in 7 minutes because successful business leaders are busy and rarely have more time to spare. So let's get to it. Question number 1: In a few sentences, please tell me who you are and what you do.
I'm Liz Wiseman, and I'm a researcher and author and executive advisor. And really, the work I do is I help leaders to utilize the talent on their teams.
Liz, it's great to have you on the show. Question number 2: What's the best thing about working in your industry?
Oh, you know, I'm a management educator, so I do education in the corporate world. And my mom and my sister are both educators in the K-12 space, and they say that the fundamental difference between their job and my job is that companies can afford to buy like flip charts and teaching supplies in my industry. So it's like I get to be a teacher but do it where we're not so resource constrained. So that's what my family of educators would say. But, you know, I am, I am an executive educator, and I think the thing that I love about this work is I get to see like real change and real impact on a daily basis. And I am extremely grateful to see, like, the ideas that I come up with and research and write about actually get put into use and make a lot of people's lives better. So, like, I feel like that's a pretty good gig.
I would agree. It sounds like you're making a big difference in, in different companies. So that's, that's an awesome thing to, to, to be proud about.
Yeah, we really do. Like, I have to sometimes pinch myself and say, wow, like, you know, like if I go back to like the little kid in me, I never would have anticipated having this big of an impact in the world. And it's not like I sought it. It just, it just happened. And it's nice.
Yeah. Yeah. It's great. Congratulations. Question number 3. I have a book, a fictitious book with all the answers for business. What chapter would you think most companies should read?
Oh, so you're not going to give me a table of contents to pick from?
It's up to you. You pick the chapter because it's a fictitious book.
You know, I would pick the chapter that's not about answers but like the questions you need to find answers in your business. And that's the chapter I would have leaders read. And, you know, so much of my own research and work and what I am learning about is really that the best leaders don't have the answers, they have the questions. And so if there's a chapter on how do you develop smart questions and thinking questions and ask the questions that unlock thinking and innovation, that's the chapter to read. 'Cause everything else will be outdated, but that one stays for a while.
I agree 100%, and I love that idea because it's asking those questions because that way you don't jump to conclusions. Am I correct?
Well, nice way to end on a question. Well, yeah, it's like, you know, we hear so much about the benefits of curiosity and you know, intellectual curiosity, but intellectual curiosity really comes down to, are you more interested in what you know or what you don't know? And, you know, if you're more interested in what you know, you're going to bore everyone else, but you're also going to be anchored in the past. And, you know, I want to work around and work for people who are more interested in what they don't know. And start that learning cycle.
I really like that idea because it's— you're right, it's— you're gonna continue to learn that way too. So it's, it's, it's definitely insightful. Thank you for that. Question number 4: other than the generic work harder, have a great attitude, and care for customers, what advice or insight would you give to other business leaders?
Well, I think for leaders, I would give the very clear invitation for them to simply work less. And what I find, you know, my work is around what kind of leadership multiplies the intelligence or talent on a team and what kind of leadership diminishes it. And, you know, one of the things we find is that leaders are just trying to do too much. They're trying to provide too many of the answers themselves. They're over— they're putting too much of the pressure to do and to know on themselves. And in some ways, what I go into organizations and do is help leaders learn how to do less of the thinking and more of the asking, and just really to do less and ask more, to do less and challenge more, and share that burden of leadership with your team. So I would say to the leaders, you know, just try to make yourself a little less useful. You know? Like, I think at one point I was like trying to help a struggling employee, and I kept trying to help him with this way and that way, and do you need this information? And finally, it's like, please, you know what I could really use is just a little less help, like less of your help. And I really have seen that when I become less useful as a leader, it allows other people to be more useful. And I think the message I would have to contributors at all levels is that in the work we do as contributors, like to really make yourself useful, to not just do your job, but to do the job that needs to be done, which tends to sit in between jobs and fall through the cracks. Like work the white space of an organization and just like every day going to work, like, how can I serve at my highest here? Like, how do I just make myself useful?
Very insightful. Thank you so much for that. I, I, I, I, I, It's really interesting to hear this because, you know, there's always that challenge of trying to get somebody to do the extra, go the extra mile and not fall into the, you know, that, "Oh, that's not my job scenario." So I'm glad that you brought that up. So question number 5: What other business leader like yourself would you like to acknowledge and invite to be on my podcast?
Well, I want to acknowledge Dolly Chugh, and Dolly is a professor at NYU, and I've got a whole stack of her books here that I am going to be giving out because I just think it's a book for our time. It's called The Person You Mean to Be, and I've read it. I thought it was amazing. I endorsed it, and it's, it's a book written for the person who understands that we carry unconscious bias with us everywhere we go. And it's for the person who wants to do something about it. And she challenges people to not try to be good, but good-ish, like acknowledging that we fall short all the time of our best intentions. And how do we sort of move ourselves in the direction of our good intentions? And I just thought it was a fantastic book. And I think it's a book for our workplace today.
Mm-hmm, great. Well, I'll reach out to Dolly. Thank you so much for that referral. And question number 6: Please tell me about your first job.
Well, if we go to my very first job, I worked for my father who ran— so I'm the daughter of a donut maker and he ran a Winchell's franchise. So I don't know if that was an East Coast or West Coast thing, but it was in California. It was in Cupertino right off of where Apple campus is today. And I worked for him. I was 13 years old, working for my dad. And like, working for your dad is an interesting experience. Like, you feel a certain kind of responsibility. And, you know, my father had told me, you know, like, there was this one cardinal rule about don't let anyone into the back office. And this is back in the— we're in the '70s, like late '70s, and I'm working alone. I'm probably 13 or 14 years old alone in the donut shop. At maybe 8 o'clock or 9 o'clock at night, my dad would come in and do the night shift and relieve me. And I don't know how I got home. Maybe my mom picked me up. Maybe I rode my bike home. I don't know. But I had some people come in and ask if they could go into the back room to use the restroom. And I knew that I was supposed to say no, but like my great big bleeding heart said, well, they just need to use the bathroom. She just wants to go to the bathroom. I ended up getting robbed at gunpoint with that. And so like, I'm 14 years old and I'm like, do I just grab the cash out of the cash register? Like the donut shop doesn't make a whole lot of money and it's our family's income, but You know, it was one of those things where you realize, no, the right thing to do is to hand over this cash. And I had to call my dad and say, Dad, I just gave away all the money in the register. And of course he said, you did the right thing. But you know, you learn, like it taught me, like sometimes there are rules that are really meant to keep you safe. And I'm a little bit of a rebellious soul that way. And so it's helped me to say, you know what, sometimes there's a reason why you're asked not to do things. Mm-hmm.
Very powerful story. Thank you so much for sharing that. It just— my heart went out to you as a 13-year-old being robbed at gunpoint. That must have been so scary.
You know, I don't know that it was scary. Like, for some reason, you know how they say like certain people are born without that fear gene, that fear receptacle, like the Alex Honnolds of the world who like, you know, I have a little bit of that and that like, I just don't do fear. Like, I just— I don't know, somehow I've chosen in life not to be afraid of things. Maybe that experience at like 13 was like, it's gonna be fine.
I'm impressed that you had that mindset right there.
So I don't know where it came from. It might be like literally biological, but I tend to be this sort of like irrational optimist on certain ways. I'm always like, what could go wrong? Or even if it goes wrong, it's just going to be fine. Like, don't worry. But you know, I'm now 55 years old and I've been living most of my life without a real sense of fear. Like even going into meetings, scary meetings, I'm like, It'll be fine. And it usually is.
Absolutely. Especially, you know, if you, if you can deal with that at a young age, I can, you know, it's any kind of a business meeting shouldn't be scary at all. So it's not life or death. So Liz, thank you so much for being on the show. How can people find you?
Well, I am, I'm pretty easy to find. So like a Google search finds me pretty easily, but let me see, I'm @LizWeisman on Twitter. Uh, you can find me on LinkedIn. Um, Follow me there. You can go to our website, thewisemangroup.com, or multipliersbooks.com, or rookiesmarts.com, and Amazon. I'm pretty easy.
Perfect. This is Professor Pete Alexander with the Winning at Business and Life podcast. For more insights and ideas, please go to LinkedIn, YouTube, Facebook, or iTunes and search for the Winning at Business and Life podcast. Thanks for listening.
